Jenny Pentland, THIS WILL BE FUNNY LATER: A Memoir
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:07]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:12]Check it out, and you'll hear from 49 authors about all sorts of things
[0:16]Moms Don't Have Time to Do. All the authors have been on this podcast.
[0:19]Also, check out my TikTok at with Sivi and Tracy.
[0:22]My other podcast, Sex Talk with Sivi and Tracy.
[0:25]Check out Moms Don't Have Time to Write on Medium.
[0:28]And of course, my new publishing company called Sivi Books.
[0:32]And now back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:37]Hi, hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Jenny Pentlin is the author of the memoir This Will Be Funny Later.
[0:45]Jenny is a writer, mother, and hobby farmer.
[0:48]The daughter of Roseanne Barr, she, along with her sister, was the inspiration for the
[0:52]characters Becky and Darlene on her mother's long-running, eponymous television series, Roseanne.
[0:58]Jenny spent her teen years in various self-help programs and considers herself a survivor
[1:02]of the predatory troubled teen industry.
[1:05]She lives in Hawaii with her husband and five sons.
[1:08]Welcome, Jenny.
[1:09]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss.
[1:13]This will be funny later and memoir.
[1:15]Thank you for having me here.
[1:17]Best cover ever, by the way.
[1:18]I love this as Child of the 80s, you know, growing up.
[1:22]This is just fantastic.
[1:23]As was the book.
[1:24]Oh, my gosh.
[1:25]I just recommended it actually on some local, like, good day to see feature that I did.
[1:29]Anyway, thank you for sharing all of your ups and downs and treatments and journeys and
[1:36]everything.
[1:37]I feel like I've just gone on such a ride with you and what inspired you to share it.
[1:41]Like, why did you why now why did you decide to share your story?
[1:46]I'm not a thousand.
[1:47]I mean, I've never in my life done something for just one reason.
[1:51]I think there was a bunch of, a bunch of reasons.
[1:54]One of them was I was kind of coming out of a dark period where I was basically couldn't
[1:59]leave my house and was a gora phobic and part of coming out of that for me was not saying
[2:05]no to things just because they were uncomfortable or because I knew that they would be transformative
[2:10]and I couldn't control the direction of the transformation.
[2:14]So I think that that was part of it was that I had sworn to myself that I would say
[2:18]yes that any opportunity presented to me and then there was just something about the time
[2:24]that was telling me that now is the time to talk about these things.
[2:27]This is the right time in my life and just in the way the world is right now.
[2:32]That's all.
[2:33]You had the funniest chapter headings by the way, like the whole packaging of this book.
[2:38]I read a lot of books and I have such an appreciation for interesting structure and titles
[2:43]and anyway, I kept chuckling at everyone even though a lot of the content was very emotional.
[2:50]The way you wrote about it was always sort of with a sense of humor, kind of tongue
[2:55]and cheek, a lot of the stuff that went on.
[2:57]I feel like I hope I'm hoping we'll come across that way and the early when I would
[3:01]let people read the chapters, I'd be like, read this one because being funny is our
[3:06]family's language.
[3:08]I don't know how to talk about anything without a sense of humor about it.
[3:13]So I'd let people read it and I think they were going to come back to me and be like,
[3:16]that was hilarious.
[3:17]But they would always be like, I'm so sorry.
[3:21]Maybe it's not coming across or, but I mean, it's a healthy mix of comedy and tragedy.
[3:26]I think so.
[3:27]It depends on the reader, which, you know, what their reaction is going to be.
[3:31]But definitely being funny is huge of defense mechanism in our family and our love language,
[3:37]I guess.
[3:38]I should really have that guy on.
[3:40]Next time I'll try to put you on at the same time.
[3:42]We could have a whole session or something.
[3:44]I was literally saying that to my husband the other day because I was like, he did something.
[3:48]Well, anyway, it's not relevant, but he did something.
[3:50]I was like, we're having like different love languages here.
[3:52]I was like, I was showing my love.
[3:53]I take care of 5,000 things and you're only showing love by spending time with me.
[3:58]Anyway, that's, I have the same like, I like that guy in that theory.
[4:03]I just think there's like some, he should delve deeper into the other versions of love
[4:08]languages too because being mean is a love language for some people.
[4:13]That's true.
[4:14]And that was not list.
[4:15]That's true.
[4:16]The dark web version of the live love languages.
[4:20]Love it.
[4:21]Oh my gosh.
[4:24]Well, there's so much in here that was so interesting from obviously growing up with
[4:29]the celebrity as a mom and how that transition happened over time and how you coped with
[4:34]it.
[4:35]You're interested honestly in your struggles with your mental health and the eating,
[4:40]even the ending up in the treatment facility at 280 pounds and having to go through that.
[4:46]I actually worked at an inpatient unit when I was in college.
[4:49]I would love psychology and very interested and I was in the adolescent inpatient unit.
[4:53]And so all of this reminded me, you know, the same sort of terms and everything, although
[4:57]I mine was in New York.
[4:58]And then all the way to the like gastric bypass, like this whole arc of that part of coping
[5:04]honestly.
[5:05]Right.
[5:06]That's just like one way I hope.
[5:07]So I was hoping you could just talk a little bit about that and how it felt to share it
[5:11]and sort of where you are with it now.
[5:13]Well, I think like, well sharing it was easy because it's like, I don't know, being fat,
[5:19]you can't keep that a secret.
[5:21]So it's on a secret.
[5:22]So you know, you're sharing it by going outside.
[5:25]So I think there's a vulnerability that just always exists and being overweight that you
[5:30]can't.
[5:31]You're not choosing to opt into the vulnerability about talking about it.
[5:35]But because of that, I think it was easier and some ways to talk about that than the anxiety
[5:40]and the other things that you've earned kind of coping ways that people might not know.
[5:45]But you know, I felt like I just had a unique journey with that because I never really
[5:51]did the disordered eating parts of it, but it was like, I don't know if I haven't worked
[5:56]that one out all the way.
[5:57]I might need to bring that solely about that.
[6:00]Well, you know, I was a little bit overweight when I got put into the institutions and
[6:04]then, you know, be complacent and sitting on my butt and needing cafeteria food for five
[6:08]years.
[6:09]I just kept gaining gaining gaining and by the end, I was about 280 pounds.
[6:14]And then it became like a power struggle issue between me and counselors or me and people
[6:18]who even are counselors that would take us away like overeaters and on-miss meetings
[6:24]and my own family and the power struggle part was more what it was about for me.
[6:30]And then using that as a means of autonomy, like having some autonomy, like what are you
[6:35]going to do about it?
[6:36]Like this is one of the only things I can't control.
[6:39]And that part with the disordered eating other people that I've talked to that have
[6:43]had struggles with that, the control issues are the real thing.
[6:47]And I see that in other parts of my life too, which is trying to manage being alive and
[6:52]in control, what you can control.
[6:54]So I think looking at that was hard because that is pervasive in every other avenue of
[6:59]my life too.
[7:00]So I wish I could compartmentalize it just into body issues or eating issues.
[7:04]But unfortunately, everything is just so deeply tied and are woven with everything
[7:10]else that just never going to untangle it.
[7:14]No.
[7:15]I totally get that.
[7:16]I have sort of struggled with my weight my whole life and I feel like it's so unfair.
[7:20]Like I've had all these sets.
[7:21]If I were an alcoholic, like nobody would know if I was just, I mean, maybe I would be
[7:25]falling over.
[7:26]I should have probably shouldn't say that.
[7:27]It's probably not, you know, appropriate or something.
[7:29]But like, I wish I had something that nobody could tell.
[7:32]Like everyone knows I'm like failing at something right now.
[7:35]Right.
[7:36]I'm failing publicly and it's like I'm really ashamed and, you know, I can't do anything
[7:41]about it.
[7:42]And I'd be like in my, anyway, I don't know.
[7:44]This is my own stuff.
[7:45]Yeah.
[7:46]But I totally relate.
[7:47]And also just, you know, we do live in a society that's extremely critical of women's
[7:53]bodies in every way.
[7:55]For everything you do, you're too skinny or too fat, you're too this.
[7:58]Or if you feel great, then you dress too provocatively, like all of it.
[8:02]It's like there is, there is no way to be as a woman where you're not in constant criticism
[8:09]wherever you go.
[8:11]And when you're in public, then it's like, you know, you're being looked up and down.
[8:15]I think because of that, like, and women get in on it too, because then we're, we're
[8:19]feeling picked apart to them.
[8:20]We start picking apart, picking apart everybody else to try to figure out where we fit in
[8:24]there.
[8:25]And it's, I mean, I was probably in most countries that I've been to anymore.
[8:29]I travel to I feel a little bit of it.
[8:32]Part of the reason I like to why so much is because that's probably the only place that
[8:35]I did not feel that way.
[8:37]And they have very different views of women's bodies and female being there, which I really
[8:43]like.
[8:44]Very flowy close, which is nice.
[8:46]Well, it's also just no one cares.
[8:49]It's amazing.
[8:50]It's like you're judged on merit a lot more than anything else.
[8:54]So because everybody's related to like everybody knows you've come in as related.
[8:58]So it's like, you know, I think you're going to be a lot more or less critical of people
[9:02]who are in your family than you would have a stranger and people that you see every
[9:06]day, you start to see past anything that you pick up on.
[9:10]I think we're also in these big communities and big cities that are like, you know, you don't
[9:14]really run into the same people every day.
[9:15]So people don't have a chance to get to know you beyond their first impressions.
[9:20]So you're just constantly being first impressions to death and it always has to do with
[9:24]your body or your clothes.
[9:26]Like whatever it is that I feel that you're insecure about, like if you don't have enough
[9:30]money for nice clothes, whatever the thing is that that you feel your, your falling short
[9:35]in is the thing that you're going to have in your head and other people will pick up on
[9:39]that.
[9:40]Oh, why is she looking secure?
[9:41]And then they look up and down and go, oh, okay, it's because of this or that.
[9:45]And that's just the way of categorizing other people.
[9:48]And we all do it.
[9:49]We all categorize other people to try to figure out where we fit into the pecking order.
[9:54]I've had chickens and goats for a long time and I just watched the way they do it.
[10:00]And I'm like, oh, it's just innate that we try to figure out
[10:03]the pecking order where we fit into it.
[10:05]And, you know, in a human farmland or in the human farm,
[10:12]it's a different thing because we can be really,
[10:15]you know, it's verbal or horrible,
[10:18]or horrible verbally to each other.
[10:20]And just microaggressions and stuff.
[10:22]I'd rather somebody just peck my eye out
[10:24]to put me below them that they're slowly critique me
[10:27]to death on a podcast or something
[10:30]or like a news article kind of situation.
[10:35]So I think the book was a lot about that too,
[10:37]is just being picked apart slowly.
[10:40]These self sound like bad options.
[10:42]They're all bad.
[10:43]These are our choices today being picked apart by chickens
[10:46]or, you know, sabotaged in the press.
[10:48]I don't know.
[10:50]I'd rather just just peck my eyes out.
[10:53]Yeah, I guess it's not the best option.
[10:56]Be called fat.
[10:57]I haven't decided yet.
[10:59]No, I was really also moved about
[11:02]when you wrote about the birth of your first son
[11:04]and how he was born with a soft cleft palate
[11:08]and how you handled that and the surgeries
[11:10]and that all must have been so stressful too.
[11:13]Yeah, I think being a new mom and I was 24 and I was an LA
[11:17]and I was in the Jewish area too.
[11:20]We lived right above my temple.
[11:21]And I think there was so many things about it
[11:24]that were stressful.
[11:25]Being my husband had only been together
[11:26]for like six months at that point in time.
[11:28]And I think we were both on unemployment.
[11:31]Not when it happened.
[11:32]I was in Annie when I got pregnant,
[11:33]but then like soon after when I was so inemic
[11:36]that I couldn't work, we were on unemployment.
[11:38]So yeah, there's a lot of things that were stressful
[11:41]during that time.
[11:42]And then that being one of the things who was born
[11:44]with a buff palate in the soft part of his mouth
[11:47]and just the way everybody else handled it
[11:49]and me trying to sort of, sort of stay calm
[11:52]and listen to my intuition and also be my own advocate.
[11:56]And also I looked like a 15 year old.
[11:58]So none of the nurses wanted to listen to anything
[12:01]that I had to say.
[12:02]And yeah, it was a stressful time.
[12:05]It was a very, very stressful.
[12:07]I mean, I'm saying it like,
[12:09]like it hasn't been that level of stressful up
[12:11]until this morning, but it has an all honesty.
[12:15]I've always been like, they continue now.
[12:18]Yeah.
[12:19]Yeah.
[12:20]Yes.
[12:21]I mean, I get, I have, you have five kids, right?
[12:25]Yeah.
[12:26]Yeah, I have four kids and I understand the stress,
[12:28]but I think it's also the unpredictability,
[12:32]at least you never know who's gonna have an issue
[12:35]or what type of issue and everything else has to stop
[12:38]while you handle it and all of that.
[12:40]Yeah.
[12:41]And then there's the, that's just in the physical world.
[12:44]There's also all the spiritual and mental repercussions
[12:48]and the dynamics between brothers
[12:50]and the dynamics between extended family members
[12:53]and, you know, just all of the interpersonal aspects.
[12:57]And if you don't have a lot quite now,
[12:59]I'm like, say your kid didn't have a plot palette.
[13:00]You would worry that there's something that you couldn't see it
[13:03]or you would worry that you're not gonna be a good enough mom.
[13:05]I mean, we're just, I think card-wired or programmed
[13:09]and taught to just worry and worry and worry and worry
[13:14]about everything.
[13:15]And so that's a huge part of parenting that I see.
[13:20]I've been doing it for like 21 years.
[13:22]I honestly don't think like if my brain gets quite
[13:26]for a moment, I'm like, oh, what if, you know,
[13:28]one of my kids has a driver's license.
[13:30]Okay, well, what if his car breaks down?
[13:32]What if the tire falls off?
[13:33]Like you can just really spin out in that kind of fear.
[13:38]And then I feel like when you have kids too
[13:40]for like what I was talking about trying to be
[13:43]in control of situations,
[13:45]you're basically never going to be in control
[13:47]of a situation ever again,
[13:49]especially when they're 18.
[13:51]And there's a level of acceptance that you need to have
[13:54]or else it's really, really difficult.
[13:56]And I think like I've been watching
[13:58]all those like sad mom movies and those are not lately.
[14:02]And I think that's a huge aspect of it is there's not like,
[14:06]you know, all the onus is on the mom it seems
[14:08]for the most part, for the kids well-being mentally
[14:12]and physically.
[14:13]And if the kids struggles at all
[14:15]with any of their own independent issues,
[14:17]then it somehow always feels that it goes back to the mom.
[14:20]So just motherhoods, no joke.
[14:23]Yes, I would underline that if I were reading it.
[14:26]Motherhood is no joke, not for the faint of heart.
[14:29]Yes, yes.
[14:31]I totally agree.
[14:32]Do you feel like, you know, you painted a picture
[14:36]of what it was like for you growing up
[14:38]and the kind of parenting you received?
[14:40]How do you like, do you keep that top of mind
[14:42]when you're like in the day to day,
[14:43]dealing with your kids like actively going against
[14:46]or actively, you know, making decisions
[14:49]to do things in the way that you wanted
[14:51]or that you would have wanted it?
[14:53]Yeah, I think there's an element to like,
[14:55]I don't, I don't want to make the same mistakes
[14:59]that were made with me, but at the same time
[15:01]I don't really even view them as mistakes.
[15:03]They were just kind of how people had to cope
[15:05]in the moment.
[15:05]So I think for a while when my, when my youngest was young,
[15:09]like, you know, three or four.
[15:11]And I don't know if I said he's 21 now,
[15:14]but when he was like three or four,
[15:15]I realized that I was reactive,
[15:18]like I was being reactive to the parenting that I had.
[15:21]So I was basically essentially accidentally
[15:24]doing the opposite as opposed to really consciously
[15:28]looking at myself and what I thought I needed
[15:31]to do as a parent.
[15:32]So it was like, oh, I don't want to do that.
[15:35]So this is the opposite of that.
[15:36]So I'm going to do this.
[15:37]And then at some point, I was like, that doesn't work either.
[15:40]And I think that the real thing that works
[15:42]is just like getting to know your kid,
[15:44]paying attention to your kid and, and really viewing them
[15:48]as a human being and trying to parent.
[15:51]And, but that brings up a whole another thing
[15:52]when you have more than one kid, too,
[15:54]because you're parenting each kid differently.
[15:56]And you have this different relationship
[15:59]and dynamic with each child, which makes it a little bit
[16:01]more difficult.
[16:02]But I think that that was like, once I realized
[16:04]that I was reacting to pain, that I was like,
[16:07]oh, I should probably do all of my own pain.
[16:08]And that's probably the best thing you can do
[16:11]as opposed to just doing the opposite
[16:13]since that's just two ends of, you know,
[16:16]extremeness or whatever.
[16:18]Yeah, you can have like the self awareness
[16:21]and perhaps the right therapist
[16:22]to work through all that.
[16:23]And then you're probably better off.
[16:26]How do people find therapists?
[16:28]I like, I feel like I found a life partner
[16:32]and my best friends and the people that I love really easily.
[16:37]Like, they just kind of came into my life.
[16:38]And I was like, I love that person.
[16:40]I can't find a therapist that I can,
[16:42]I cannot find one.
[16:43]I'm like, is there like a, like a speed dating situation?
[16:47]Like, I'd like to just go in and sit down and be like,
[16:50]hey, here's all my issues, like top five.
[16:53]Can you handle it?
[16:54]And I actually did that with my last therapist
[16:56]a couple months ago, but then she ghosted me.
[16:58]So I have a new therapist who's like, amazing.
[17:01]I am happy to send you information.
[17:03]Someone just recommended her to me on Instagram.
[17:05]And I was like, okay, anyway, she's amazing.
[17:08]So I'll take it.
[17:10]I'm happy to send it to you at the information.
[17:12]But I agree.
[17:13]It's hard.
[17:14]I mean, there's so much personality and style.
[17:17]And I don't know.
[17:18]There's a lot of different factors.
[17:19]I mean, like probably way too personal.
[17:21]But yeah, no, well, I don't know how to do personal.
[17:25]How long did it take for you to write this?
[17:29]And like, how did you feel writing it?
[17:30]Did you like, was it like a huge relief to get it off your chest?
[17:34]I don't know how did you feel about it?
[17:35]No, I mean, it wasn't a really,
[17:37]you know how when you're mulling over like your to-do list
[17:39]in your head for like a week.
[17:41]And then you're like, God, I should just write this down.
[17:43]So I don't have to keep like cycling through.
[17:46]And my whole life, I was kind of like collecting stories
[17:50]in a way that I wanted to process later.
[17:53]It was mostly like I need to process this,
[17:55]but things are too much is going on now.
[17:57]I need to process that later.
[17:58]And so I always had my head over.
[18:02]Don't forget to process this one, you know,
[18:04]and just like kept mulling them about my head.
[18:07]And I think it was causing me a lot of anxiety.
[18:09]So at some point, I was like,
[18:10]oh, if I write these things down or write these thoughts down.
[18:14]And that's where it started,
[18:15]because I've really started on Twitter
[18:17]maybe like eight years before I started to write the book was,
[18:20]I was like, I have to get these thoughts down
[18:22]or it's going to make me insane.
[18:23]And my kids were a little.
[18:25]And then Twitter came up and was like,
[18:26]oh, I have to condense these thoughts down
[18:29]to like one sentence.
[18:31]And then I can just put it away.
[18:33]And then if I need to go back and look at my Twitter feed
[18:35]later, I can, I can search it.
[18:37]So it kind of like Twitter sort of was like just
[18:40]an organizing like to-do list of life processing kind of stuff.
[18:44]And then once I started doing that,
[18:46]I realized I really enjoyed like kind of editing things
[18:49]into a shape.
[18:50]And then I went through that struggle
[18:53]where I was like, couldn't leave my house.
[18:55]And then I was like, I'm going to say yes to everything.
[18:57]And then my friend called and she was like,
[18:59]are you ready to write a book?
[19:00]I have somebody that can help you.
[19:02]And I was like, no, yes.
[19:04]And just kind of delved into it.
[19:06]I had no idea.
[19:07]I still don't know what happened or how I did it.
[19:09]But I just like would be like, okay, now what do I do?
[19:13]Okay, now you start writing the words down.
[19:15]Okay.
[19:17]So I called my dad and he's really smart
[19:20]and he remembers everything.
[19:21]And I just, you know, he told me year by year,
[19:24]he gave me a timeline of events.
[19:25]And I had compartmentalized them into like little pockets
[19:29]in my head and didn't remember what year anything happened.
[19:32]So that really helped me out.
[19:33]So I did the timeline first.
[19:35]And then I started saying, oh, this is,
[19:38]this like say my mom got her TV show in this area.
[19:43]That also was when I was like 12.
[19:45]So this is what I was going through personally
[19:48]at that time and trying to like connect everything
[19:51]and figure out how all of it happened.
[19:54]And it ended up being really cathartic and healing
[19:57]in the sense that I was looking at my life.
[20:00]and what happened those five years through everybody else's eyes in a way because I wanted to
[20:04]really be fair and not just have it be like a journal where I'm going to turn it into my
[20:10]therapist at the end of the week because I could have done that route and like my first drafts
[20:14]a lot of time would be like that would be just like you know I'm angry and these are all the
[20:19]things I'm angry on then I was like okay but then also like how did this person what was this
[20:25]person going through and the person that you're mad at what was that like for them and so you know
[20:29]gave me a reason to put myself and everybody else's shoes and see it from their perspective
[20:34]and that was healing for me because I I always kind of felt like maybe I was just sort of brushed
[20:40]to the side as a sort of not inconvenience I was more than an inconvenience but like just like
[20:46]nobody know what to do with me so they just put me somewhere else because they had too much going on
[20:50]but then when I really could break it down I could look at what really happened and be like oh okay
[20:54]this was that week and I had a lot more understanding for what happened and I could really
[20:59]see how my parents did exactly what they needed to do at the time and how everything kind of fit
[21:05]so that was healing but it took like three years so I'm like sitting there in my PTSD for like
[21:11]three years and I don't think I handled it as well as I thought it was looking back now the last
[21:18]few years are sort of a little bit of a fever dream trying to get to this point that I'm out
[21:22]right the second and I did some things right and I did some things not not well I didn't handle
[21:28]something as well and you know I'm still like I said it's transformative it's extremely
[21:34]transformative but I could not have imagined in what ways or like emotionally or physically
[21:40]or spiritually in what ways it would be transformative and I definitely could not control those
[21:47]terms so this is you know it just came out yesterday so it's just starting to kind of hit me what
[21:53]ripple effect everything had and not just of writing the book but of my PTSD when I was a teenager
[22:00]like I thought I'd handle it and then I thought oh I handled it so now I can write about it
[22:06]objectively but that seems to be not what happened in hindsight what do you think what do you
[22:11]think really happened I think I opened up a Pandora's box that I was not equipped to deal with
[22:16]and I think I dealt with it poorly in some aspects and and now I'm trying to like recover those parts
[22:22]my life that that I sort of lost control of again I guess yeah so stay tuned for book two is what
[22:29]I'm getting at I can't wait well having written this memoir what advice would you have for
[22:40]someone who's trying to write a memoir of their own don't do it just get a therapist instead
[22:46]and just work through that and keep the world out of it or you know write one and give it
[22:52]it to your grandkids after everybody you you write about to dad I think those are my two pieces of
[22:57]advice don't do it or do it when everyone's dead but you don't really read that now of course I don't
[23:04]I think anybody who's writing a memoir is probably doing it because there's some pain and suffering
[23:09]that they're trying to process because I don't recall reading a memoir that was like then I went
[23:14]to coffee with my best friend so I wouldn't say if you're going to write a memoir it's probably
[23:19]because you're trying to process and stuff and just make sure that you set yourself up for
[23:23]being able to process that and have somebody help you emotionally through it and just do it
[23:30]also don't do it also just do it and also don't do it so my two
[23:38]well okay thank you Jenny congratulations on the book coming out and I hope that in the long
[23:45]run you're really glad that you did it and that it's you know because like an inflection point
[23:50]and leads to a lot of more new amazing things like talking to you and finding your perfect therapist
[23:58]other people hopefully helping some teenagers that have gone through that too and maybe bring
[24:02]in some light to the troubled teen industry and that was my real hope so I'm actually on the
[24:08]board of the child mind institute and it's all about child mental health if you have any interest
[24:12]and an introduction there or anything if you want to help out or reach whatever let me know
[24:17]that's okay I'm happy to put you in touch with Harold couplets he runs the whole place so
[24:21]yeah I think I do want to get into that that's kind of the direction I'm feeling pulled right now
[24:26]after this so I would love to talk more about that okay great awesome thank you for having me on
[24:33]and to me craziness oh my gosh it was great thank you so much thank you so much bye bye
[24:39]thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books don't forget to
[24:45]follow me on instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books also sign up for
[24:50]my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[24:55]on zoom every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing
[25:00]and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music