Jasmine Guillory, WHILE WE WERE DATING
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[0:37]Hi, hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Jasmine Gillery is the author of While We Were Dating.
[0:44]She is the New York Times bestselling author of six romance novels,
[0:47]including The Wedding Date, The Proposal, and Now While We Were Dating.
[0:51]Her work has appeared in Oh, The Oprah Magazine,
[0:53]Cosmopolitan, Bon Appetit, and Time.
[0:55]She lives in Oakland, California.
[0:57]Welcome, Jasmine. Thank you so much for coming back on Moms Don't Have Time to Read books for a second time
[1:02]for While We Were Dating.
[1:04]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:06]It's great to talk to you.
[1:08]I loved this book. You have such a way of getting people right into your stories.
[1:14]I mean, immediately, I was like, okay, who has been? When can I meet him?
[1:19]Like I have a picture in my head. He's like so charming.
[1:22]Anyway, and then Anna, of course, your character has just come to life right away.
[1:27]It's really amazing. And it draws you right in.
[1:31]Thank you so much. It's so funny because usually when I'm writing,
[1:35]I kind of know immediately who the woman is,
[1:40]but it takes me a little while to get into the character of the man.
[1:43]It was the opposite this time. Ben, like, jumped in my head full form.
[1:48]I knew exactly who he was from the very beginning.
[1:51]And so that he was a lot of fun to write.
[1:53]Do you ever wonder if, like, these characters are, this gives sense.
[1:56]So ridiculous. I can't believe things that led.
[1:58]But do you ever wonder if these are actual people, like, living somewhere?
[2:01]Like, how do they come so clear?
[2:03]I don't know. I was a novelist. I mean, it's amazing.
[2:05]It doesn't even. I think about that all the time, actually.
[2:09]I really do think about all the time because I especially with this book
[2:14]because I sort of knew who he was, like, right away.
[2:17]And often I sort of, when I started the character, kind of start with, like,
[2:22]a germ of something from someone else, you know, or for myself or whatever.
[2:27]But this time it was just like, I knew the whole person.
[2:30]And so I do sort of think about, like, is this a person living somewhere?
[2:35]Right?
[2:36]Yeah.
[2:37]No.
[2:38]And someday I will meet them and be like, you, like, you are bad.
[2:41]Exactly. What if he's out there?
[2:43]Maybe he speaks a different language.
[2:46]I know.
[2:47]I know when I was reading, I mean, I still am reading a lot of fiction.
[2:50]But like, sometimes last year I was like, okay, this girl in this book has to meet this girl in this book.
[2:56]And I'm like, I want to put them in touch.
[2:58]And I got to do it to your friends.
[3:00]Yeah.
[3:01]Like, Ben, I just like, you know, he would be, he'd love this guy.
[3:04]I just met and had a call with.
[3:06]Yeah.
[3:07]So funny. Wow.
[3:08]So when you, so wait, go back for people listening. Sorry.
[3:12]As I jump into my own conversation.
[3:14]I digress.
[3:15]I digress.
[3:16]Could you give a little plot synopsis of while we were dating?
[3:19]Yeah.
[3:20]While we were dating is about Ben and Anna.
[3:21]Ben is an advertising executive.
[3:23]Anna is a Hollywood star.
[3:25]And she is the starring in like a new ad campaign that he's playing.
[3:31]And then, you know, they're sort of immediately attracted to each other.
[3:34]But they're not going to do anything about it because they're working together.
[3:37]And then he kind of rescues her and helps her with the family emergency.
[3:41]The way you set up that sexual tension, though, like, even when he was putting on the microphone.
[3:50]You know, the, the lavalier, whatever in the photo shoot and like touching her back.
[3:54]And oh, my gosh.
[3:55]I mean, you could just like feel it.
[3:56]Like feel that, you know, when he's like, oh, you have to go here.
[4:00]Like no flights.
[4:01]Okay.
[4:02]I'm just going to drive you.
[4:03]And I'm like, oh, okay.
[4:04]Yeah.
[4:05]So do you, do you have like a dream guy who would play him?
[4:09]I'm really asking.
[4:10]I think because this is such a visual thing.
[4:12]And it's all about like film, like the, you know, the advertising and her being famous and all of that.
[4:18]Well, do you know what's so funny is that I get that question a lot for.
[4:21]I know.
[4:22]Sorry.
[4:23]No, it's okay.
[4:24]But I never have a bit answer for it.
[4:26]Because I really like, I envision a person.
[4:31]Somebody else.
[4:32]Yeah.
[4:33]I have a very clear picture of my mind.
[4:35]Who Ben is, but he's not like, I, like I know authors who sort of see someone and kind of think of a character based on that.
[4:41]And I kind of in the opposite.
[4:43]So sometimes I will see someone after the fact and think like, Oh, you would make a great Ben.
[4:48]But it's never the other way around.
[4:50]But I will say for this book.
[4:52]I did see like it was after I had turned in the manuscript before the book came out.
[4:58]And it was a press shot from a movie that Nandi Asama.
[5:04]And I forget her name.
[5:06]I will remember it did together.
[5:08]And I saw the picture.
[5:09]And I was like, Oh, that's been an end.
[5:11]Right there.
[5:12]So in part of it was just their chemistry together, you know.
[5:15]And so, but sometimes it is, it is more about like is more about the vibe that someone gives off and like exactly how they look.
[5:23]Also, in addition to the whole chemistry, sexual, whatever going on with them and how that develops over time and the things that she asks them to do and where this is going and all that.
[5:35]You also have a whole family element too to the story.
[5:38]So Ben and his brother Theo.
[5:40]And then can I say about finding out what because I have.
[5:43]Yeah.
[5:44]Right.
[5:45]So how he was reached out to you out of the blue once and again by a woman who was claims to be his half sister and where that whole plotline progresses.
[5:55]And I saw even in your discussion questions how you were like, what would you do if you got an email like like that.
[6:01]And I was starting to think like, Hmm, what would I do?
[6:05]Anyway, so what would you do if you found out something like that?
[6:08]You know, it's funny because I have known a number of people who have gotten like that sort of where I had the idea who've gotten, you know, like that, either, you know siblings or like distant family who they've found out through these like online ancestry things.
[6:24]And so I really like kind of thought about.
[6:29]It makes you really think about the nature family and like do want to, I mean, because I feel like it would be impossible not to want to meet the person right and see, but also sometimes it also depends on your relationship with that side of the family and like do really want to and like do care.
[6:46]And so I think it really does bring up a lot of interesting character elements.
[6:50]Totally.
[6:51]And even like whether or not to tell your other siblings is a big question right.
[6:55]Why keep it a secret? Why, you know, I don't know.
[6:58]I feel like if I got the email, I'd probably tell everybody I've ever met. I'd probably post it the next day or something.
[7:02]I'm so like, which would be the wrong thing to do, but I would do it anyway.
[7:07]That's really funny.
[7:09]Yeah. So you also have the whole element of fame right and the downside of fame and how fame and mental health are sort of inversely related.
[7:19]Like talk a little bit about that.
[7:22]I mean, I think, you know, kind of first in the mental health element like I was writing this book during the spring and summer of 2020 right and it was kind of everybody I knew was like thinking and talking about mental health and so it felt impossible.
[7:36]Like it just, it just felt natural to bring that element into the book because I was thinking about it so much.
[7:42]And I also think like I knew, I knew even like along before I started writing the book that, you know, was going to be an actress.
[7:51]And so that felt so natural to bring those things together because, you know, it's sort of the part of it is like her ambition and like she really wants this.
[8:02]And she loves her job and yet difficult things come along with that. And so it really felt natural to kind of tell those stories altogether.
[8:11]Oh, it was really nice to see a movie star who was acting so normal in a way, like seeing her with her family and having people with like the gentle ribbing that like parents do in keeping people grounded in like nobody cares.
[8:29]Nobody cares.
[8:31]That's just true. Yeah.
[8:34]Right.
[8:35]Right. Did you talk to any celebrities are doing research or was this more like imagination.
[8:40]It's done us weekly or I did all I read a lot of celebrity memoirs.
[8:45]And then I also talked to no celebrities by talk to like friends who have worked with celebrities sort of see, you know, some of the behind the scenes stuff. So that part was really interesting.
[8:56]And I really think that celebrity like until recently I've met like a few celebrities and until I started meeting a few celebrities. Honestly for this podcast.
[9:07]I just really didn't even think about them like people.
[9:10]Like, like I really didn't.
[9:13]I know that sounds ridiculous. Obviously we are all just people. But I was like, Oh, I don't know. Just so different.
[9:20]Yeah, I'm like, I mean, not really right. I don't know.
[9:25]Yeah, it was funny because a few, I guess the last month I was on the today show.
[9:30]And I was there on a day when Jenna Bush Hager was like sort of dressy.
[9:35]It was a, they were talking about sex and city and Jenna Bush Hager kind of dressed up as like, you know, had a carry dress on and stuff.
[9:41]And I was texting with my publicist about it afterwards. And she said, you know, said like, Oh, Joe looks great. I was like, Oh, yeah, she was so self conscious about wearing that.
[9:52]And my whole list is said like, Oh, I can't think of like a celebrity being self found just about it. But she was really like, I never.
[10:00]where she was like this and so it was very interesting
[10:04]to kind of see that behind the scenes thing.
[10:06]Yeah.
[10:07]My gosh, I was like trying to get somewhere
[10:09]with my kids the other day holding like 1,000 bags
[10:11]and like just like one of these mom moments
[10:14]where I was just like so bedraggled.
[10:16]I think I was probably in my pajamas
[10:18]and like a hotel lobby or something terrible.
[10:20]And I'm like, do you think Reese Witherspoon does this?
[10:23]I feel like, how do I get my son into these situations?
[10:26]Like, no, I can't imagine anybody, you know.
[10:30]I think Jennifer Garner is doing this right now.
[10:32]I don't think that's what who knows.
[10:34]Maybe they are.
[10:35]Well, it was really nice getting to know this actress
[10:39]and the inside of her and feeling her emotional life
[10:42]and feeling like I like now I have a friend
[10:45]who's sort of gone through this.
[10:47]So it must have been really fun to write.
[10:50]It was really fun to write.
[10:51]It was a really fun book to write, yeah.
[10:53]And it was, I mean, because I was writing it like kind
[10:57]of in those first six months really, the pandemic,
[11:01]it was in many ways like my escape,
[11:03]but from the hardest stuff.
[11:05]And like that was, you know, that August in California,
[11:10]it was a really, there were a lot of fires that month.
[11:12]It was really scary month for, you know,
[11:14]you know, my kids, fires and like everything else.
[11:16]And so it was really like I'm going to ignore everything else.
[11:20]It's going on the world and just like hide inside the story.
[11:24]And so that was like my real joy in the pandemic
[11:29]was writing this book.
[11:31]Well, it's so great to be able to transport yourself
[11:34]just like you transport the readers, right?
[11:36]It's like when we can't do anything or go anywhere
[11:39]or whatever, you just like open a book.
[11:41]Yeah, so it was overly simplistic,
[11:44]but it's like magic every time.
[11:46]It's really cool to do.
[11:47]It's so interesting to me to be interviewing people now
[11:50]and seeing all the different things that came out of that time.
[11:53]Yeah.
[11:54]It's like a science experiment, right?
[11:56]How did you get through?
[11:56]Like I don't even have to like, okay, you know,
[11:58]and then there's another book about like, you know,
[12:00]that all that focuses entirely on the pandemic, right?
[12:03]So people go in every different way.
[12:05]Yeah.
[12:06]And it's also funny because my next book comes out
[12:09]in a few months called by the book.
[12:10]It's a beauty in the beast,
[12:13]retelling.
[12:13]Yes, I just heard about that.
[12:14]Yes, he's, yes.
[12:15]Yeah, and it is funny because like I also wrote that
[12:19]during pandemic, and I didn't do it on purpose,
[12:21]but as I was like doing kind of my final read
[12:24]of the book a few weeks ago,
[12:25]I was like, oh, yeah, wow,
[12:27]I was definitely going through the pandemic emotions
[12:29]as I wrote this book.
[12:30]Like, it doesn't make any reference to the pandemic,
[12:35]but it is very much a book written during the pandemic, you know?
[12:38]And so those are things that you can sort of really
[12:41]identify, I mean, at least I could identify
[12:42]and I'm sure readers will be able to.
[12:44]Tell me more about by the book.
[12:46]It's for adult still though.
[12:47]It's not yet.
[12:48]For adults, Disney is doing this series
[12:51]of contemporary retellings of princess stories.
[12:54]And so the first one was Cinderella that came out
[12:58]this past summer called If the Shoe Fitts
[13:00]by Julie Murphy.
[13:01]Oh, yes.
[13:01]So mine is a bell story.
[13:04]And so it is about woman Isabelle.
[13:07]She works in publishing.
[13:08]She sort of has a kind of bottom of the wrong job
[13:11]in publishing.
[13:11]And she has to go to Santa Barbara
[13:15]to kind of try to get this celebrity to finish his memoir.
[13:20]And so she ends up living in his enormous house with him
[13:25]to kind of push him to write them on more
[13:27]for the next few months.
[13:28]And so it's all kind of their story and how that happens.
[13:31]Oh, I like it.
[13:33]Awesome.
[13:34]I have a book coming out in July called Bookends
[13:36]and memoir of Love, Love, Some Literature.
[13:38]Maybe we should do that.
[13:39]We should do a virtual event.
[13:40]Yeah, I think about book themed books or something.
[13:44]Something like that.
[13:46]So are you having already written another book then
[13:48]since then?
[13:49]You're like, ranking them out.
[13:51]I am in the midst of it.
[13:53]And then that stuff it, yeah.
[13:54]And what's that one?
[13:55]I'm not ready to start talking about that one yet.
[13:57]But you'll know as soon as I can.
[14:00]OK, all right.
[14:01]I never like to talk about a book until it's
[14:03]like turned in and done.
[14:06]So because you never know when things can change.
[14:10]There are things that I told my editor
[14:11]about the book that I'm like, oh, actually,
[14:13]it's not happening anymore.
[14:14]So yeah.
[14:16]Have you thought about doing more continuations?
[14:19]You know, I'm like looking at party of two behind you.
[14:21]And I'm like, oh, I wonder how they're doing.
[14:23]Yeah.
[14:23]Actually, well, the next one is going to be kind of a brand
[14:27]new beginning.
[14:28]So I hope people like it.
[14:30]OK.
[14:31]Yeah.
[14:32]All right.
[14:34]I'll leave it alone.
[14:35]Amazing.
[14:36]Well, what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[14:39]I think my advice is really, I think
[14:42]I have two really big pieces of advice.
[14:43]One, read a lot.
[14:45]Like read, especially in the genre that you want to write in.
[14:50]But lots of other books too.
[14:52]I get so many ideas from reading other books,
[14:55]from reading books in your genre.
[14:56]You kind of think about the patterns
[14:58]and how people write and what readers expect.
[15:02]And what you like and don't like.
[15:03]I mean, there are books that I've read
[15:05]that I read that I didn't like that really helped me think like,
[15:07]why didn't I like this book?
[15:09]I don't want to do it this way or that way, you know?
[15:11]And so that I think is as helpful as reading books you do like.
[15:14]And I think rereading actually helps.
[15:16]Like when I started writing, I wasn't like,
[15:19]there were certain things that I was good at.
[15:21]And certain things I wasn't.
[15:22]I dialogue, I was kind of iffy at.
[15:24]And then I kept, I would reread books that I knew did it well.
[15:29]And I kind of thought about why did this work?
[15:34]How can I make my writing work in the way that there's works?
[15:40]And it's not like copying because you're
[15:42]reading a lot of different people and kind of thinking
[15:44]about how it works and then translating that to your own work.
[15:48]But that I think was very helpful for me.
[15:51]And then just like write a lot, keep practicing.
[15:54]I think we all, when you see a book published,
[15:59]it is usually the, you know, for me,
[16:01]it's like the, I don't know ninth or 10th draft.
[16:04]And so I think writing a first draft and thinking,
[16:08]oh, that's terrible, sure me, it is.
[16:10]My first drafts are always terrible.
[16:11]Like keep working at it and keep going
[16:13]because there's so many things like I, you know,
[16:17]something won't work.
[16:18]And I just kind of keep going and finally it does.
[16:21]But it really takes a while.
[16:23]And like that's okay, be patient with yourselves,
[16:26]but keep going back to the work.
[16:27]Sounds great.
[16:28]Well, if you had to do like a where is Ben today,
[16:32]what do you think he'd be doing?
[16:33]You know, I feel like right now in sort of in the midst
[16:37]of the pandemic, he'd be holed up in,
[16:39]in his house with her.
[16:42]Pretty happy.
[16:43]Oh, and while she's like out filming a movie.
[16:46]Yeah, holding down the fort.
[16:49]Awesome.
[16:50]Well, Jasmine, thank you so much.
[16:52]This was really fun.
[16:53]And your book was really fun.
[16:54]Fun for me is a very positive word.
[16:57]My husband never were like shopping for something
[16:59]or I'm like, that's fun.
[17:00]He's like, you can't call like a carpet fun.
[17:02]He's like, now I've realized that fun means good.
[17:04]You know, like, I don't know.
[17:06]So I thought the book was really fun.
[17:09]Well, thank you so much.
[17:11]I really appreciate it.
[17:11]I love it.
[17:13]Have a great day.
[17:14]Bye.
[17:16]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[17:18]to Read Books.
[17:19]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[17:22]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[17:24]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebi Owens.com
[17:27]and sign up for my virtual book club
[17:29]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[17:31]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[17:34]for the Sound Editing.
[17:35]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[17:37]for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music.