Megan Fairchild, THE BALLERINA MINDSET: How to Protect Your Mental Health While Striving for Excellence
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[0:41]Megan Fairchild is the author of The Ballerina Mindset,
[0:44]how to protect your mental health while striving for excellence.
[0:47]Megan is a principal dancer with New York City Ballet.
[0:50]After moving from Utah to New York City at the age of 16 to study ballet full-time,
[0:54]she was offered in apprenticeship with NYCB and was promoted to principal,
[0:59]the highest rank just three years later.
[1:02]In 2014, she took a temporary leave to play the lead role,
[1:05]Mr. and Styles, in the Broadway musical On the Town.
[1:08]She's also the host of the advice podcast, Ask Megan, a brand ambassador for Cole Han,
[1:13]and an MBA student at NYU's Stern School of Business.
[1:17]And by the way, the paperback of this book is coming out now.
[1:21]So very exciting news.
[1:23]Welcome, Megan.
[1:24]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:25]On mom's, don't have time to read books to discuss the ballerina mindset,
[1:28]how to protect your mental health while striving for excellence.
[1:32]Thanks for having me.
[1:33]I need this book and checked every chapter as I went through.
[1:38]I was like, OK, chapter and anxiety.
[1:40]Great, chapter and eating.
[1:41]Yes, a chapter.
[1:42]Like everything went on.
[1:43]I was like, I need this one.
[1:45]I need this one.
[1:47]So thank you for sharing your story and for all the advice.
[1:50]I'm so glad it resonated.
[1:51]Yes, go.
[1:53]Will you tell us, there's a little bit more about this book.
[1:55]And also, what made you decide to write this?
[1:58]You're the super successful ballerina and have had an amazing career and all the rest.
[2:03]Why take time out to now write a book?
[2:05]I actually was always really shy with the idea of ever like having a book.
[2:10]And there's been other dancers that write about their careers,
[2:13]but I always thought that was so not me.
[2:15]And then it just happened super naturally.
[2:17]I did a little podcast.
[2:19]I spent a year on Broadway.
[2:20]It was a big departure from the ballet world.
[2:22]And I felt like I realized everyone thinks ballet dancers are like such an intense type of person.
[2:29]And so many people when I like, even the stage hands on my Broadway show were like,
[2:33]wow, this is not what I expected a ballerina to be like.
[2:37]And I was like also feeling the need to give back to all the fans and stuff
[2:42]that I had developed and like young dancers to show them like,
[2:46]this is what our industry is like.
[2:47]And we're really normal people and blah, blah, blah.
[2:50]And kind of to demystify it.
[2:51]So I made a podcast called Ask Megan just to kind of help mothers and their kids
[2:57]who were dancers understand our industry a little better.
[3:00]Because I really felt that media misconstrues it.
[3:03]And then an editor from Penguin Publishing contacted me and she was like,
[3:07]I've been using your advice to help myself from the marathon.
[3:10]I'm not a dancer at all.
[3:11]And I really think you have a book here.
[3:12]And so we met together and fleshed out like 10 big life lessons that I felt
[3:17]were worthy of sharing and things that I wish my younger self had known.
[3:20]And she really helped me to pose it in more of a universal light
[3:24]because she felt it had that type of message, which it does.
[3:29]So let's like go through a few of them because they're all like super helpful.
[3:33]Let's see.
[3:34]Let's talk about the, let's start with the beginning with facing anxiety
[3:37]because obviously this is pervasive right now.
[3:41]And you did a good job of sort of spelling out why anxiety makes no sense.
[3:46]even though we all do it.
[3:47]Right.
[3:47]So tell me about your experience with anxiety, how you're managing it now.
[3:52]And what's been the most helpful for you?
[3:54]Yeah.
[3:55]Like I'll give a little example that I give in the book.
[3:57]The very first time I had my first big role.
[4:00]It wasn't even huge, but I was wanting to do so well.
[4:03]And it felt like I was being really featured for the first time.
[4:06]I stayed up till four in the morning, the night before crying on the phone
[4:10]to my mom, my back hurt from working on the piece a lot.
[4:13]And I was just so building it up into this enormous thing.
[4:20]And especially at night, you know, we all really stress at night.
[4:23]And so I got no sleep and I like ended up really like sabotaging my opportunity.
[4:28]And I was okay.
[4:29]And I got through it.
[4:30]But like I look back at my younger self and all of these times
[4:33]when I was really like wasting time freaking out.
[4:37]And I would tell students now like that's time that could be used
[4:42]to just make yourself more consistent in what you're working on.
[4:46]And so I've had to really learn to like reframe it.
[4:49]And also to know that like that, you know, those butterflies you're going
[4:53]to get before something important are actually useful tool to help you
[4:57]prepare if you can channel it in the right way.
[5:00]So I also try to look at it more as like not something to doubt myself with,
[5:05]but something to give me energy.
[5:07]And then like this is an important adrenaline rush that I need to take this
[5:10]to the next level for performance.
[5:12]But also I talk later in the book about something that really has helped me
[5:16]just in general stay more balanced and and coke better
[5:21]under difficult stressful times is meditation.
[5:25]So I don't even have that much time to meditate these days.
[5:29]But if I really need to like reroute my energy, I have this tool.
[5:34]I can go be like, I'm tapping out to my husband.
[5:37]I need 20 minutes to myself.
[5:39]I need to change my mindset.
[5:41]I need to change my energy and I go and I meditate.
[5:44]And I come out feeling pressure.
[5:48]I feel like the things that were imploding in on me are further away.
[5:52]And I have more space around me.
[5:55]And I just can be the person that I want to be in life, you know.
[6:00]So and that's always that's been the best benefit for me is that I feel like
[6:05]properly treat all of the people around me in the way that I want to.
[6:09]And I don't let stress get in the way of all those things.
[6:12]Wow.
[6:13]Goals.
[6:16]And still working on all of it.
[6:18]Just ask my husband.
[6:21]Still have lots of work to do.
[6:23]But I have the tools now, you know, and like the younger me didn't know this.
[6:27]And that's why I'm wondering this book because I feel like for me,
[6:30]meditation was such a game changer, such a game changer.
[6:34]I have not been able to get into meditation at all.
[6:37]I know it's supposed to be so good, but I don't know.
[6:40]Usually like I could find out and read or something or take a walk or something.
[6:43]I think it's whatever works for you.
[6:45]Right.
[6:46]But for me, the reason that meditation kind of like I got really into it first was
[6:52]because someone more senior than me at work suggested that I would benefit from it.
[6:57]And then also I did she have me doing TM you have to pay for it.
[7:01]Like a thousand dollars to like do your lessons.
[7:04]And I was like, okay, well, this is a commitment.
[7:06]Honestly, I feel like that that amount of money made me be like, you know,
[7:11]I'm making a commitment towards this that I'm not going to squander.
[7:14]I really am going to give this its full effort.
[7:18]And somehow that the money part helped me to be consistent in the beginning and
[7:23]understand how much it could help me.
[7:25]And of course, it's going to pay the teachers and everything.
[7:27]And it's how they function as an organization.
[7:29]But for me, that was like a good motivator because I don't like wasting money.
[7:33]Yeah. No.
[7:35]Let's talk about your whole section about your food intake.
[7:40]Time when you just go.
[7:43]Well, you know, I'm sure a lot of people think dancers have really weird eating habits and
[7:49]you know, having a magnifying glass on your, those things and what you're putting into your body
[7:56]can kind of mess with your brain.
[7:58]And I had to learn the, you know, over time.
[8:03]It's not that we are, you know, it's not that you can't, as is right.
[8:08]As a dancer, you have to be in control of what you're putting into your body.
[8:12]Like that is important.
[8:13]We can't say that, oh, you can look like whatever you want as a dancer.
[8:17]And that's fine.
[8:18]Like we're really working towards an ideal of everyone's optimal health.
[8:23]It's not that everyone has to be like rail thin like this or that.
[8:26]We have all different types of muscularity in the company, especially in an American ballet.
[8:32]In general, there's, there's a wider range of physics.
[8:36]And so I think that's good for young dancers and people to know in general that we're not trying to like not be who we are.
[8:43]We're trying to be our best selves.
[8:45]So I got really stressed out at the beginning of my career before I had meditation and all of these tools to to cope with all of these moments where I had to execute well under pressure.
[8:57]And the way the stress manifested in me was I started binge eating.
[9:04]I think it was also the stress of okay I have that costume fitting now and the costumes are very tight and thick.
[9:11]And you don't want to feel uncomfortable when you're dancing because then you don't even have like the range of motion to do air best.
[9:16]So like you really want your costume to fit exactly like the way you tried it on in that in that fitting.
[9:22]And so the idea that I had to kind of stay in the same place weight wise and physically like that kind of stress me out didn't really understand how to do that.
[9:32]But all kind of manifested as like I would kind of try to eat really really healthy and then the stress would get to me and I would just eat like an entire box of cookies or just like two pieces of pizza and an enormous sugar cookie from the bakery down the street or even two of them.
[9:48]It was just like disgusting and it didn't feel good and it was it was that's like dinner by the way.
[9:55]Now you know I look at it.
[10:00]I remember feeling a lot of shame when I was having those moments and I was like, even
[10:03]like hiding some of the food for my boyfriend, like thinking that, like, I was like gross.
[10:08]And I look back and I'm like, no, I needed to refuel my body.
[10:11]My body was telling me important signs and signals.
[10:14]And I'm just so much more in tune with it now, but how I got there was being able
[10:21]to give myself permission to have a real meal.
[10:26]And it stopped this vicious cycle of, like, insane snacking.
[10:31]And the biggest thing I do now is that I do not deny myself a craving.
[10:36]And I actually, there is some nutritionist on, like, TikTok and Instagram now that I follow
[10:41]that I think have it.
[10:42]So, right.
[10:43]There's one that she's called to the point, nutrition.
[10:46]And it's, uh, she's for dancers, but it's for, I think everybody has this, you know, we
[10:53]want to be our best selves.
[10:55]And we want to detach ourselves from the stress of, of the anxiety of food and the scale
[11:02]and all of this stuff.
[11:03]And it's about giving yourself that craving and by not ever denying things, you're never
[11:11]going to have this huge binging session because you've limited yourself.
[11:15]And it took me a while to learn that, like, I do get to deserve to have a cookie.
[11:20]I just don't need three each time.
[11:23]And so, giving that permission, it's just, I don't know, I, I also married to a French guy
[11:28]now and I feel like there's always this, like, stigma that French women, like, they give
[11:32]themselves pieces of chocolate and they eat on, whatever, and they still have amazing bodies.
[11:37]But I kind of, like, look at how they eat.
[11:38]And it's like, they eat really rich food and they sit down and they take time to eat.
[11:44]They don't eat on the run.
[11:45]It's a social event.
[11:47]They have the placemats said, and there's no, like, diet food on the menu.
[11:53]But you get full when you take your time.
[11:56]When you give yourself that fat or that, you know, whatever, to fill yourself up.
[12:01]Have you read the book French women don't get fat?
[12:03]I think I skimmed it or, yeah, totally, because it's such a, you know, how are they doing
[12:08]this and that they're so, I think they're very conscious about what they're, they're looking
[12:15]like.
[12:16]But from the outside, it's a good lesson of how to let go and have a little bit healthier
[12:23]approach is just how I found it to do it.
[12:27]And it's so, so freeing when you get to that place where you go sit down at a restaurant
[12:33]with friends and you're not like, okay, what's like the skinniest thing I can eat?
[12:37]I feel like I used to do that to myself, and now I'm like, what do I want?
[12:41]What's my body telling you?
[12:42]Ooh, I want something salty.
[12:43]I must be dehydrated.
[12:44]Like, I need, you know, some sodium, I'm going to get some fries, but now it's like
[12:49]something I don't need all the fries.
[12:52]I can have until I feel full, I never get that feeling now where I'm feeling disgusted
[12:57]with myself because I went too far past and that's a really nice place to be.
[13:03]I think it's a journey.
[13:04]We all have to learn the balance for ourselves, but I'm, I'm enjoying my 30s more than
[13:09]I am my 20s.
[13:10]Let's point out.
[13:11]Nice.
[13:12]Nice.
[13:13]I know.
[13:14]I think it, I've heard it often comes down to regulation, right?
[13:18]How we regulate our moods, how we regulate what we eat, when we eat, and it's not something
[13:23]to feel so punitive about.
[13:26]It's just like you're trying to regulate, you know, like a regulation of us, which sounds
[13:32]I think much less judgmental or something, right?
[13:35]Totally.
[13:36]It's like you're just.
[13:37]You can't be judging what your body is telling you you need and when you start to,
[13:43]you get a whole issue and your head about it that takes it to a really unhealthy place.
[13:48]Is it hard in the ballet world?
[13:50]I mean, it's, it's one thing to say this is like, you know, yeah, a mom, like what am I doing
[13:54]it?
[13:55]Nobody sees me in my sweat fancy, but it's another, you literally do have to be on display
[13:58]as you're talking about with the costumes and I mean, your body is, is your career.
[14:03]Yeah.
[14:04]And like you can't mess it up.
[14:05]It would, you would lose everything if you get you, right?
[14:07]You can't hide either.
[14:08]And you can't hide.
[14:09]Yeah.
[14:10]If you really come to terms with at the beginning.
[14:12]And if you kind of can't get past those first couple of years, people, people sometimes
[14:16]leave because they can't get a good, healthy understanding of their body and its needs and
[14:21]what it's supposed to look like and so it's difficult and also we all get in the company
[14:26]when we're going through puberty, like 17, 18.
[14:30]And that's a time where like your body's changing a lot and that's hard to be trying
[14:34]to fit in costumes and like showing up to work one in suddenly your boobs are twice the
[14:37]size of what that's before.
[14:40]You know, so like I found that stressful, but really truly the schedule that we pull
[14:46]is like the best thing you could do to keep yourself in shape.
[14:49]And so if you know how to have a healthy mental approach to your eating on top of that,
[14:53]you're going to be looking the best that you could look doing what we do.
[14:57]You know, it's like I get, people ask because I've had babies, they're like, how
[15:01]do you get back in shape?
[15:02]I'm like, my job is going to the gym.
[15:04]I'm very lucky in that way.
[15:05]I'm not trying to multitask that aspect.
[15:09]That is my job is to train myself.
[15:12]So that's a benefit.
[15:14]Do you feel like you're in a good place?
[15:17]I don't mean to talk so much about eating.
[15:18]I'm sorry, but do you feel like you're in a good place with the babies?
[15:22]You know, like how you're going to approach food and all of that with them?
[15:28]Absolutely.
[15:29]I think I got a little nervous with my first born because she could seem to like eat
[15:34]endlessly and I was like nervous about that and like I had to let go and know that
[15:40]no, her body's telling her what she needs to and I have three girls, right?
[15:45]And they're all very, very different.
[15:48]And so I really want to make sure that I support them and that journey of young adulthood
[15:55]in a healthy way because it can be really damaging.
[15:59]And also when you're different than your siblings, that can be difficult too.
[16:04]So I'm definitely super aware of it and I just want to make, I don't want to have one
[16:11]former colleague when she had her first born, she would like make your son from the mirror
[16:15]and talk like self-love to her body.
[16:18]Like look how beautiful I am and I'm not not going now far, but like that kind of mindset
[16:22]like, you know, and that's a little bit why I would be fearful of her to enter into
[16:27]this world because it is super judgmental and we're like being judged in front of a mirror
[16:32]and from the people all day long and then you do in front of an audience and like I've
[16:36]come out on the other end and I've survived it, but I would be very protective of my
[16:39]daughters to go into that environment and I wouldn't want them to feel insufficient, you
[16:46]know, and I wouldn't want them to feel also that they had to achieve what I achieved.
[16:50]So in a way I'm like, I hope they appreciate ballet, but I also hope they find their own
[16:53]thing.
[16:54]And how old do they know?
[16:56]I have twins that are nine months and a toddler that just turned three.
[17:00]No.
[17:01]Yeah, it's really a lot of fun stressful as you know, but really I'm having the best
[17:07]on the other night at Tinder.
[17:08]My toddler sat down and she said, babe, to my husband, babe, so how was your day?
[17:14]What?
[17:15]They say the funniest thing, this is amazing.
[17:20]I know, my son this morning was like, do you want to blanket and I was like, oh, that
[17:25]is so sweet of you to offer thinking.
[17:26]And he's like, no worries.
[17:27]I got you.
[17:28]I'm like, where is he even saying this room?
[17:31]But anyway, yeah, I have twins too, which is it's own, you know, it's own thing.
[17:35]Now they're 14 and a half, which sounds ancient here to yours, but yeah, I actually wrote
[17:40]this thing.
[17:41]Maybe I'll finish you.
[17:42]I self published this when my twins were tiny, but it was like how to survive, what did
[17:46]I even call it?
[17:47]Little morsels, like how to survive having twins or something.
[17:50]Oh, I love that.
[17:51]I love that.
[17:52]And so is a fellow twins, city mom, not twins.
[17:54]Oh, that's fun.
[17:55]Yeah.
[17:56]Kind of.
[17:57]No.
[17:58]Okay.
[17:59]No, it's okay.
[18:00]They're so different.
[18:01]Yeah.
[18:02]You just have to remind them, you know, you just happen to share the same space to be born,
[18:09]but you're really just siblings.
[18:11]Exactly.
[18:12]Mine are so different to their two girls.
[18:13]And I'm like, the only thing they share is a birthday, everything else about them is different.
[18:18]It's incredible.
[18:19]It's incredible.
[18:20]It's hard having to go through the same things and, and be such different people.
[18:25]Like, I think that's the hardest thing and someone's always ahead or behind on everything.
[18:29]Exactly.
[18:30]And you can normally even like notice, right.
[18:33]Yeah, I have one that's always she's standing up before the other one.
[18:36]She was calling for the other one.
[18:38]Yeah.
[18:39]The other one always gets there.
[18:40]And in her own time.
[18:41]So, yeah.
[18:42]Yeah.
[18:43]Should be interesting.
[18:44]Learn how to mom navigate that.
[18:47]I would say honestly, a lot of the characteristics of my twins at nine months have stayed.
[18:52]Interesting.
[18:53]Yeah.
[18:54]Who does things first to, you know, just a lot of the behaviors, even like how they act in play group.
[19:00]And I have found that to be fairly consistent.
[19:03]So interesting.
[19:04]Yeah.
[19:05]I can't wait.
[19:06]I can't wait.
[19:07]I never did this.
[19:08]And I wish I had, but just like spend 20 minutes or something and just write down like their behavior in a group, their behavior alone.
[19:15]like personality traits and then like put it away and bring it out in 10 years or something.
[19:20]Just see.
[19:21]Not that you'll remember, but anyway.
[19:23]I mean, I mean, you might, but I probably wouldn't.
[19:26]So what is it like?
[19:28]And you probably asked this all the time.
[19:30]So I'm sorry to be right.
[19:31]But I'm curious.
[19:32]Like when you're on stage and you're dancing and doing a whole performance in front of all these people at the very top of this field.
[19:39]Like what, what, what are you thinking and feeling in that moment as you're doing all your moves on stage?
[19:44]Like where, where is your brain?
[19:46]What is going through your head and like how does it feel to you?
[19:49]When I was younger, I used to be thinking, oh, here comes that scary step that I didn't get to rehearsal a lot.
[19:55]And I was way too in my head and now, especially with the help of.
[20:00]meditation. I am really, I'm first of all just the older I get, the more I just love what I do
[20:08]because I'm getting so used to it's like how many years I've been doing this for 20 years now.
[20:14]I love what I do. I feel my most comfortable in that space of performing in front of thousands of
[20:24]people and it's just kind of it's a special thing because you've worked and rehearsed and
[20:32]rehearsed but then like it all comes together in the show in this amazing way because you have
[20:37]a orchestra and the lights and the makeup and like so your body kind of like arrives in the moment
[20:42]and does things that you know sometimes you even couldn't do a rehearsal and like all of that
[20:47]stuff coming together in that just one moment in time and so special and like then the audience
[20:53]witnessing it and you don't even know what's going to happen. Like that's the relevant and I've
[20:58]learned to love that. I used to be terrified of it and I've learned to love it and so now what I really
[21:02]focus on when I'm out there is hearing the music and we have a 60 piece orchestra and I didn't really
[21:08]appreciate until I went to Broadway and everybody was so excited we had a 20 piece orchestra or
[21:13]like that's nothing. And so it is you know and we rehearsed a piano the same melody used and stuff
[21:21]and then you get to the live show and hear this music that's so incredible and it brings it to life
[21:27]in this even more spectacular way. So I don't know life you know doing what we do you got to love
[21:33]the journey and but that's why the pandemic was hard because I really also feed off of that
[21:38]performance aspect and hearing the audience's applause and so it's like the only way that you
[21:44]can communicate with them is what they're you know what they sound like after you perform and it's
[21:50]this connection you share you know we like silently communicate and share something in that in that
[21:55]evening and I just love it. So that was a big thing missing from the pandemic and I a lot of dancers
[22:03]younger dancers in the company left because it was just this is not worth it and they forgot or
[22:08]didn't know what was waiting for them on the other side you know. Yeah I'm sorry I I mean it's just
[22:17]like everybody's pandemic experience you know I remember at the beginning thinking like oh my gosh
[22:22]all the stories I'm going to hear about this and then it's like it's fairly a dancer what do you do
[22:27]and you're used to that it's like I mean we were dancing our our company sent five by eight
[22:32]square foot marlies so it's like the surface that we dance on because with point shoes and the
[22:36]satin though it's very slippery unless we have this special surface and so they sent it out to
[22:41]all of us we have this little rectangular mesh to dance on after our stage is enormous and we
[22:48]are knelling for covering space and traveling and then we're like diminished to this teen little
[22:53]space for a year and a half it was just like heartbreaking it was truly heartbreaking but I also knew
[23:00]if we can make it through this we are going to be so resilient we're never going to complain again
[23:06]and we're going to always be grateful for every opportunity to be together even if it's not
[23:12]performing just to come together and dance to our pianist and take class together even just that
[23:18]is something that I will never take for granted ever again yeah so nice do you ever worry when
[23:24]you're in the middle of a performance like that no one can reach you you know like that what is
[23:29]something happens to your kids or like what if oh my god I never thought of that you know my my
[23:34]performances are only like half now or long usually because we're part of New York City Valley so it's
[23:38]a arbitrary kind of format instead of long full links but even if I was doing a full length because
[23:44]we do some of them you know I go back to my dressing room and intermission it's like every half
[23:48]hour I come to check in on my phone all right you know so I don't ever feel super far away
[23:54]I'm sorry I like to make your things to worry about so there you go you know
[23:58]I think I really went there now I will no don't no oh my gosh and do you do you think you'll go
[24:06]back to Broadway again like to do what was that like any realize what a hustle it is first of all
[24:12]those people have really are scrambling each time they're trying to get an into a new show
[24:16]and can you talk about what what play you were involved in that whole thing for people to
[24:21]yeah absolutely in 2014 I was part of the revival of On the Town which is like there's a movie
[24:26]with Gene Kelly and I forget who else I want to say anyways and it was originally on on Broadway
[24:34]and then they did a movie with it with it with different music so anyways it's like that song New
[24:38]York New York it's a wonderful town yeah so it was like this 50s show and so fun and I was like
[24:45]the love interest of the lead and I had to sing and act on stage and it was just the wildest
[24:51]experience and yeah I learned from that that like they work really really hard and when we did
[24:57]it shows a week for a year and you don't have a night to hang out with friends or and your days
[25:03]resting and it's like really intense so I only doubt I would say yes to it especially with three
[25:09]kids now but like I'd say yes to like a little project that was like you know for a little bit of time
[25:15]I love that world I think they're amazing people it made me realize how jaded we are as dancers
[25:21]like the ballet world is a little more alike but but there's more of a perfectionist
[25:26]aspect to what we do and we're really hard on ourselves at the ballet where in the Broadway world
[25:30]it's like just sell up for the audience everyone's gonna enjoy let's have a good time you know so
[25:36]but such talented people I I developed a lot of respect for what people do in Broadway it's not easy
[25:42]so not to keep you here forever but the book itself what did you like what did you learn that could
[25:47]help other aspiring authors from writing your first book oh interesting I mean it was really kind of
[25:54]of like just like flushing out journal entries about certain lessons so there wasn't any huge
[26:01]lessons except like I learned a lot from my editors unlike how to structure a chapter in order to
[26:07]make it interesting and starting with a little lead in and then going into further you know
[26:13]but the way they helped me structure it was very helpful and I always also really relied on them
[26:18]to help me understand what was interesting to the readers because like I would go off on tangents
[26:23]and they're like oh we don't want to hear about that we want to hear about this I'm like really
[26:27]does want to hear about that and so it was always like something different than I expected that
[26:30]people want to hear and so that was interesting so my connection with them was really important
[26:35]and I definitely did not felt confident putting anything out there until the either if it
[26:40]wasn't for my two amazing editors so and they're both fans of the ballet and we're friends now so
[26:45]yeah it was a fun experience in relationship and yeah I didn't have any time crunches and we really
[26:52]like spaced it out and I finished over the pandemic but we had started in 2017 I think we're 18
[26:58]so really we took I took my time with it which is all yeah I saw your picture on instagram
[27:04]of you at the strand and I was like that's so exciting so anyway congratulations on the book
[27:09]and everything else it's really such an accomplishment and it's just really amazing especially
[27:14]with three little girls and a huge all like I'm the same career and everything so you know
[27:20]I would applaud this was a little you know it's not the theater but you know you could hear
[27:24]what this sounded to you so much it's so nice to meet you it's so nice to meet you too all right
[27:30]we'll take care bye thanks bye thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read
[27:37]books don't forget to follow me on instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books
[27:43]also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[27:48]of authors on zoom every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan back texture sound for
[27:53]the sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[27:57]now trim music