Fiona Davis, THE MAGNOLIA PALACE: A Novel

[1:39]Zibby Owens: Hi. I'm Zibby Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids. Check it out, and you'll hear from 49 authors about all sorts of things moms don't have time to do. All the authors have been on this podcast. Also, check out my TikTok at with Zivvy and Tracy, my other podcast, sex talk with Zivvy and Tracy. Check out moms don't have time to write on Medium, and, of course, my new publishing company called Zibby Books. And now back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids. Hi. Hi. Hello. Enjoy the show. Fiona Davis is the author of The Magnolia Palace, a novel. Fiona is the New York Times bestselling author of six historical fiction novels set in iconic New York City buildings, including The Dollhouse, The Address, and The Lions of 5th Avenue, which was a Good Morning America book club pick. Her novels have been chosen as one book, one community reads, and her articles have appeared in publications like The Wall Street Journal and Oh, The Oprah Magazine. She first came to New York as an actress but fell in love with writing after getting a master's degree at Columbia Journalism School. Her books have been translated into over a dozen languages, and she's based in New York City. Welcome, Fiona. Welcome back, I should say, on moms don't have time to read books to discuss the Magnolia Palace, which, by the way, is, like, so close to where I'm recording this podcast. I feel like I should have done like a live thing on the sidewalk or something. I like that. You with a microphone. Yes. I should actually just walk over there and take a picture of me outside. Maybe I'll do that later today or something and post it. Anyway. Okay. So can you tell listeners what the Magnolia Palace is about? Sure.

[3:21]Fiona Davis: So all the buildings that I write about all the books I write about are set in landmark buildings. And this one is set at The Frick Collection, which is a beautiful museum that was the residence to Henry Clay Frick and his family before it was turned over to the public and became a museum and is now The Frick Collection. And so my book is set in two different time periods because I love that jumping back and forth thing. And in 1919, it's from the point of view of this very celebrated artist's model and muse who gets caught up in a scandal and she kind of has to hide out in the Frick mansion with the Frick family after getting hired as the private secretary to the very temperamental Helen Frick. And she gets all caught up in the family drama, including romantic trysts and a stolen pink diamond known as the Magnolia Diamond. And then in 1966, it's from the point of view of a fashion model named Veronica. And she's doing this Vogue photo shoot at the Frick that goes terribly wrong. And she gets trapped inside during a three day blizzard along with, an intern named Joshua. And she stumbles upon a series of hidden clues of messages that are tucked in the kind of around the artwork of the museum. And that leads her and Joshua on the scavenger hunt that she hopes might solve all of her financial problems, as well as possibly reveal the truth behind this decades old murder in the Frick family. So there's a lot of moving parts.

[4:49]Zibby Owens: Wow. That's amazing. I love how you're just canvassing the city. As a native New Yorker, this makes me very happy. I'm like, it's just getting closer and closer. All the references you have on, like, West 65th Street, now we're on 70th Street, and now we're here. And it's even the history that you and I you're so good at just weaving it in so it makes sense. But how missus Astor is the one who decided to move uptown. And what did they you have there was a term for it. Would it Vander Vander Building. Yes. That is it was like a whole migration. I love it. I wonder if, like, later they're gonna call it, I don't know, Greenwiching or something, you know, when, like, everybody was moving out to Greenwich, it became the thing with all the mansions and, you know, it sounds similar. Yeah. It's so fascinating because in the beginning, everybody was downtown and uptown was like farms.

[5:33]Fiona Davis: And then as time went on, they started moving uptown. So you had the Vanderbilts building their French chateaus on 5th Avenue in the fifties. Unfortunately, they're no longer around because that would be wild to see. Then you have Frick who put up this very restrained, comparatively, an elegant mansion on East 70th Street in 1914. His whole thing was to keep it very conservative and elegant and restrained so that the focus was always the art on the walls because he was a huge art collector. And so even today, as you walk around the Frick, the sunlight's pouring in and you have these beautiful furnishings and that kind of thing. But every hallway in every room, you're looking at Turner's and Renoir's and Rembrandt's. There's 34 Vermeers in the world, and I learned that three are at the Frick. And so you're in this house with these

[6:22]Zibby Owens: beautiful paintings, and it really feels like the Fricks just ran off to a dinner party and they'll be back at any moment. And I think that's the magic of it. That's why so many New Yorkers, if you ask them what their favorite museum is, it's the Frick. I've gone to a bunch of back when I was younger, and I would go to these galas all the time. Not all the time. Occasionally. I had a girlfriend who was on the steering committee of that young person's party. All to say, I would get dressed up in black tie and go to the frick for all these parties. And we would just you know, it's like out of your buck. Right? We'd all be in black tie with nice beautiful dresses and holding champagne and, like, wandering around because they would have all the galleries on the 1st Floor. Everything was open. You could just wander. And then right in the middle courtyard, everybody would have this giant cocktail party and there'd be a DJ. And, yeah, it was really fun. It's for in the in the before times. Yes. The before times. Yes. In fact, there was actually a blizzard one year, and I remember, tromping in and everybody was all festive because it's like

[7:19]Fiona Davis: we were trapped there essentially. Anyway. Oh, I love it. It was really wonderful to be able to get a behind the scenes tour because they have like a bowling alley in the basement that really works from, you know, built in 1914 and it still works. It's just in beautiful shape. Way they keep it up is stunning. And I've gone to a couple fancy soirees at the Frick and it's amazing walking around with a glass of champagne and looking at these paintings. I think there's just nothing better. Yeah. And it's so like, you can feel

[7:48]Zibby Owens: the not the ghosts, but, you know, you can feel the people who have come before you. And, like, you feel like you're in another era. So that's why it's such a great setting for a novel. Right? Because even in the present day, it feels like you're not even living in today's reality, so to speak. Yeah. Oh, it's so true. And the personalities of the Frick family were so strong,

[8:08]Fiona Davis: especially Henry and Helen, that it's true. It's like their ghosts are still there wandering around telling you what to do. It's

[8:16]Zibby Owens: pretty rare. It's also interesting that he built it knowing that he was going to donate it. Right? So I feel like that must have informed how he structured it and all of that. Yeah, definitely. Because for example,

[8:28]Fiona Davis: there's a huge room in the back that normally in a Gilded Age mansion, that would be the ballroom, but it's an art gallery and it always was because that was his intention. And it's just stunning. It's really, really quite amazing.

[8:41]Zibby Owens: Wow. Well, I love how you crafted, well, both of the women in both time zones. Time zones. Yeah. I mean, I guess we could say time zones. Don't know. It's not like they're on the But, West Coast or you know, Angelica, who's really mourning her mom and really sad about that and trying to find her place in the world and getting by with these which a modeling profession that no longer really exists. I mean, does it in the way used to make statues out of these women? And she would just like casually bump up against these really famous statues and not even tell anybody like, that's actually my body over there. It's crazy.

[9:16]Fiona Davis: It really is. Her story is incredible. And the character LillianAngelica in the book is inspired by a real life artist model named Audrey Munson. And her story is just incredible because she was this really celebrated artist model in the early 1900s where she posed for statues and that are all over Manhattan. You can find them still today at Columbus Circle, in front of the library, in front of the Plaza Hotel, in front of the Brooklyn Museum. And she's also carved in stone above the entrance to the Frick, which is where I first kind of figured out who she was and started Googling. And her life is incredible. It's stranger than fiction where she got caught up in a scandal, which is very similar to the scandal in my book. And then she and her mother fled upstate and things just didn't go well. She tried to get into a film career that didn't work. And she eventually swallowed mercury trying to kill herself. And then her mother finally put her in an asylum where she died in 1996. My gosh. At the age of 104.

[10:17]Zibby Owens: No

[10:18]Fiona Davis: way. And at that time she was buried in an unmarked grave. And I just thought, here's this woman who has completely been lost to history. Pass by her every day and no one knew that she existed. And so that's really why I wanted to create a character who I call Lillian because I changed the trajectory of her life. But I just wanted people to know about Audrey Munson and possibly Google her and find out about her. She's just an incredible, incredible person in New York history.

[10:47]Zibby Owens: Wow. Do you have some sort of a scavenger hunt map of where her statues are?

[10:52]Fiona Davis: Yeah. If you go on my website, fionadavisbooks.com, and you go to the book club kit for the Magnolia Palace, there's a bunch of questions for book clubs, which are great. And then on top of that, there's a map of the various statues, you know, and she's everywhere and they're beautiful. My favorite is the Titanic Memorial, which is on the Upper West side. Cause it's kind of tucked away and it's her lying on her side, gazing dreamily at a fountain. It's, you know, with all the drapery, it's really beautiful. And so it was really fun to research what it was like to be an artist model back then and how you were lauded and celebrated, yet at the same time, because you were posing nude for men, you weren't you you weren't high society by any means.

[11:36]Zibby Owens: The Titanic sculpture that you mentioned in the book too, that it was based on a woman who sent her maid onto that wasn't a disaster though, right? The Straussids. The Straussids, right, Strauss. That she sent her maid on the boat but decided to stay back with her husband so they could die together.

[11:55]Fiona Davis: I know. I know. It's and and the and the memorial, the the sculpture of her just really captures that poignancy. It's it's it's really beautiful. I was literally when I read that, I was like,

[12:06]Zibby Owens: would I do that? I'm like, how sure were they that it was gonna sink? You know, like, how sure were they that the boats would make it to safety? What is the risk? Would you be able to be in touch with the kids? Like, don't I had a whole I went down this whole mental debate. Hilarious. I think I would've done the same thing except for maybe the kids. Because then like, then they would lose us both. How could I live with the guilt and how nice would it be to be? Anyway, whatever. What would you do?

[12:36]Fiona Davis: That's a really good question. You know, I don't have kids, so I can't answer that. You know? But without kids. Just I I would like to think I would stay with with Greg and, you know, watch the ship go down, hoping that we'd be rescued, but I wouldn't wanna leave him. Think he would insist that I get on the boat, though. He'd pretty much throw me in the boat. So I don't think I'd have much of a choice in the lifeboat, but I would like to think I'd go down with the ship.

[13:02]Zibby Owens: Food for thought. We should do a little poll. Of course, now we should. Yeah. Speaking of Greg, you wrote a beautiful article for Good Morning America about your divorce and being with Greg now and your Parkinson's. Can we talk about that? Because I didn't even know about that. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. You know, a couple of years ago,

[13:23]Fiona Davis: right before the lines of 5th Avenue came out, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's and I was really kind of shocked because I thought at that time I was 53 and I was thinking, you know, I'm way too young, but apparently I'm not. Fifties and sixties is when it does hit. And you know, at first there's a part of you when you get Parkinson's, you think, well, that's something old people get, so I shouldn't tell anyone. And medication really helps me with my symptoms. So you wouldn't know at this point, but it is a progressive incurable disease. And the more I thought about the more I thought, you know, I'd rather talk about it because I'm sure there's tons of readers who have it. And the more we talk about it, the more funding we can get for research. For example, what Michael J. Fox has been doing for years and is incredible. Also possibly change things politically where there are certain pesticides and chemicals that are banned in Europe and other countries, but are not banned here. And they're known to cause Parkinson's. And in the same time, we've had a thirty five percent increase in Parkinson's over the past ten years. Oh my gosh. Right. So something's going wrong and we need to fix it. So I just feel like, well, the more we talk about it, maybe it'll get people to reach out to their politicians and say, hey, let's ban these substances

[14:35]Zibby Owens: and protect our families. So what are the main culprits?

[14:38]Fiona Davis: Paraquat is a pesticide and TCE is a chemical compound that's found in a lot of drinking water and everywhere. And they're banned in Europe and China and other places, but not here, which is crazy. So yeah, and their response has been just wonderful. I've had so many people reach out and share, you know, either their diagnosis with this or similar diseases like MS. And it's just been kind of wonderful. And I just thought, you know, if I'm doing a book talk and my arms start shaking, people will know and that's fine. You you just carry on.

[15:10]Zibby Owens: In the article, talked about thinking it was stress related and that once you got the book out, it would go away. Do you find that stress intensifies it? Like, it, does that, is that actually correlated? Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yep. And, and, and so you want to, you know, meditate and eat well. And they found exercise is one of the only things that slows the progression

[15:32]Fiona Davis: and exercise also helps with stress. So, you know, I try and do a half hour of serious cardio or strength training or Peloton six out of seven days a week. And I find, you know, they've proven that that helps. And so I'm all into doing that and trying to not stay, you know, not get injured. There's just so many things to, balance out. But so far it's been fine. I have great doctors. I have a great Zoom support group. There's a bunch of us who are all women in our kind of fifties and sixties who have it. And that's just been wonderful because the disease is different in every person. And so you can't say, well, do this, this and this because your symptoms could be dramatically different from someone else. And so it's been a real learning curve, but there's a lot out there and a lot of support and it's been really wonderful. Wow. Well, it was a beautiful, beautiful article and I'm so glad you shared it.

[16:29]Zibby Owens: I'm sorry you're going through this, but it sounds like you have such a great approach and tactics and management and yeah. Yeah, thank you. Is to this find its way into a novel the character? Yeah.

[16:42]Fiona Davis: You're the first person who's asked me that. And yes, not in a really kind of, if it's all about the Parkinson's, but in a more sideways way. In fact, I was asked to do a short story for Amazon for an anthology of historical fiction authors that's coming out this summer. And that's from the point of view of, in the 1950s, a classical pianist who's about to perform at Carnegie Hall and realizes that she has something called dystonia where her fingers are starting to curl in. And so it's kind of about her journey, but it's just a short story. It was so much fun to work on. And so that's really one way it's seeping in, but that story is really more about her finding this kind of village of people who live above Carnegie Hall in these 180 studios that they built. And so you have people up there, you know, people who've passed through there include Marlon Brando and Mark Twain and Martha Graham and all these famous people have lived or been on top of Carnegie Hall in the studios. And so it's just showing about this artistic village that she stumbles upon

[17:49]Zibby Owens: episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zibby for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[20:36]Zibby Owens: Right. That sounds like a full on novel. It's just a short story. I'm like, why are you wasting it on a short story?

[20:43]Fiona Davis: It worked out really well, but you know what's fun is the next book. The next book is interesting because I was trying to figure out after Carnegie Hall what to write. And a woman reached out to me who said, I'm in my eighties, I'm a former Rockette. And if you want to know the secrets of Radio City, you should call me. And of course I did and went down this wonderful rabbit hole and have been talking to Rockettes in their eighties, seventies and eighties about their experiences. And I'm setting the next book at Radio City in the 1950s from the point of view of a rocket. Oh, that's very cool. Yeah. It should be fun. I feel like I read something that involves somebody who was a rocket. Oh, I love rocket stories. I'm gonna think of it in a in a little bit. Yeah. It'll come to you when you're not thinking of it. I will send it to you. You probably already researched this. I swear she was and it was, like, bringing all sorts of disgrace to her family, and her parents didn't wanna know.

[21:34]Zibby Owens: And the dad was, like, furious, but then she ended up doing a great job. Yes. Yes. I know exactly who you mean. Yeah. Am I talking about? And then she and she was she, like, had a whole thing with the guy, the owner, who was, like, this famous guy. Was it Nikola Harrison's new book? Was it the showgirl? No. Oh, no. That's

[21:53]Fiona Davis: the Ziegfeld Follies. Ziegfeld Follies. Yeah. And that's wonderful. That's such a good book. She really In fact, yeah, she's terrific. Yeah. So that's the Ziegfeld Follies and that's more risque. That was in the twenties and it was pretty risque. So I can see why fathers might be upset. The Rockettes are much more kind of wholesome it's just been wonderful talking to women who were Rockettes because they just found such a sisterhood in the troop. It was such a wonderful defining moment in their lives. They're all still very tightly woven today. It's just an incredible story. Wow.

[22:33]Zibby Owens: I have a friend who is a Rockette, if you want to talk to her. Oh, yeah. I've talked to a number. Yeah, I'd love to. That would be great. I promise a Rockette this time, not the Zigfield Follies, which is exactly what I was thinking about. Sorry, my brain is like puttering to catch up. You know? Yeah. Exactly. What I would like to extract from it. But there we go. Well, that's amazing. How, by the way, was your event with Julie Sattow? I

[22:57]Fiona Davis: was it amazing? It was incredible. So for the launch of the Magnolia Palace, I asked Julie who wrote The Plaza, which is a wonderful book that we both did a salon with you about, which was wonderful. That's where we met. And she's just become a great friend. And so I asked her to do a book talk in person at Rizzoli Books for the launch of the Magnolia Palace. And of course, because she's a journalist, she just comes at it from a really interesting angle. And we had a wonderful conversation and we had a full house and lots and lots of author friends came out, which is really the first time in a long time that I think we've all assembled. It just happened to be the end of the latest wave of COVID. So people felt safe enough to do it. And it was just a blast. It was so great seeing so many familiar faces, even if they were masked. Just wonderful. And were you working on this during COVID, during the beginning? Yeah. You know what's so funny is I got that behind the scenes tour in January 2020. And that's great. But usually I go back multiple times to visit a building and we locked down in March, but luckily thefrick.org has an amazing floor plan on their website. So you can go into any room and get a three sixty degree view. And that saved the day because I could pop into the stairway and say, all right, if someone's looking up, how much can they see and what angle would they have to be at? Or what's above the fireplace in the library? What is that painting of Mr. Frick and how should I describe it? And so that was great. And they also were able to send me digital archives of things like the payroll. Were three people living in the mansion, the family. It was Henry, Adelaide and Helen. Helen was in her late twenties at that point. And they were served by a staff of 27. And so I could see the payroll and who was paid what and what were their roles, what were their jobs? Or they would send dinner menus from fifteen when they had a dinner party for thirty and here's who was invited. And this is the, here's the seven courses that they did. And that kind of thing is looking for those details that really help the book pop. Think, You don't have to know exactly what happened back then, but if you have enough details to feel like the characters are embedded in that time period, you can bring the reader along with you. And that's what I was trying to do. So it worked out well. And now of course The Frick is under renovation until next year, but they've moved most of the artwork to The Frick Madison, which is just within walking distance. And so you can still see all the art and learn about the family. It's a really interesting way to view it. And it's gotten great reviews all over the place for the way they've kind of reconstituted the collection in this new location temporarily.

[25:43]Zibby Owens: The reason I was wondering if it was written during COVID is because I feel like these characters are a little angrier than most of your other characters. Yeah. Like, the, like, sort of crossed arms, like, whatever, here I am. Like, take me or leave me. I don't even really care. Like, whatever. Like, that like, they I feel like that's a departure. I mean, your other characters, like, Lions of Fifth Avenue, I feel like, you know, she was curious about, like, having this other life, but she wasn't, like, super angry about it. And, like, even in the Chelsea Hotel book the Chelsea girls. Right? Like, they were exploring in there, like, you know, in the wartime, blah blah blah, like, you know, wanting to act and that friendship thing. But nobody was so pissed off as these characters.

[26:26]Fiona Davis: That's that's my read on it. Well, that's hilarious. Well, know, one of the characters who I loved writing about was Helen Frick. And she was really interesting because she was a real daddy's girl, but at the same time they really fought. And so she was just a tough woman, you know, when her mother was kind of depressed and stayed home a lot. So she became her father's confidant, both socially and in terms of the art collecting. And he was a tough guy. Like this is a guy, Henry Frick, who was a crazy union buster. He survived an assassination attempt. They took the bullets out of him without anesthesia. Like this is a tough guy who you don't want to mess with. And she met him straight on. And she was someone who, when he died in 1919 was left 38,000,000 which made her the richest unmarried woman in America. And what was interesting is, she was described in the New Yorker profile as a woman of extremely robust prejudices, who if her friends bobbed their hair, which was very popular in the 1920s, she would dump them. She wore a pompadour and a bun most of her entire life. She hated Germans. She wouldn't let anyone in the library that she created, the Frick Art Reference Library with the German last name. She fought with the board of the Frick for years until she finally resigned in the sixties. But at the same time, this is a woman who in 1917, at the height of World War I, created a Red Cross unit and went to France with it in order to help refugees. She was just a really complicated woman and not easy to deal with by any means. And so by putting our character Lillian, who's a real fish out of water because she doesn't know how to be a private secretary, she's not trained, so she's really flailing badly against this hard headed boss, a lady boss. I just really enjoyed that. And what's been wonderful is so many readers have reached out to me and say that their favorite character is Helen, which I really like because I think I wanted to try and make sure the Fricks were three-dimensional and showing their vulnerabilities as well as their strengths and their prejudices.

[28:37]Zibby Owens: And so hopefully we achieve that. Amazing. Love it. Okay. What is your advice to aspiring authors? And maybe part of that could be how you maintain this level of output and frequency with your writing, how you accomplish that. I accomplished that because I don't have kids.

[28:55]Fiona Davis: This is perfect for your podcast. So, yeah, you know, I think because, I got divorced and so I've created my own universe where I get to do whatever I want. And that is really, really nice. I mean, I love kids. I think they're wonderful, but I just never had the inclination to have them. And it does give you a lot of free time. Especially, you know, I know a lot of friends with kids and as they grow up, you're suddenly like, oh yes, I have my life back. So that's been really helpful. And I think the advice I'd give to a writer would be, you know, you don't have to write your first book by the time you're 30, you know, take time, go out and live life and go do other things, go have relationships and, you know, try things and do other things. And then when you really feel like you have something to say, that's when it's time to write a book. Because I didn't start writing till I was in my late forties. And it was only because a story hit me that I just really wanted to see if I could tell. And that became The Dollhouse, my debut book. And I couldn't have written that book in my twenties. I was a ding bell. I just had nothing to say. And it took some tough things to happen to make me realize, oh yeah, I want to write this down because it'll be interesting to dig into it, really get into the weeds. And I think that's what good books do.

[30:18]Zibby Owens: Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you for bringing some pretty flowers into this gloomy winter day with this novel and the cover and all the imagery into inside and, you know, it really transports even though it takes place so close. So anyway, it's always really fun to talk to you, and thanks for being so open about your diagnosis

[30:42]Fiona Davis: and all of that. So I hope to see you soon. Thank you, and thank you for these great questions. Wonderful. Okay.

[30:48]Zibby Owens: All right. Bye, Fiona. Thank you. Thanks, Sabine. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.