Adam Mansbach and Camila Alves McConaughey, JUST TRY ONE BITE

[1:28]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. And speaking of books, I have two of my own books coming out this spring and summer. Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19, and Bookends, a memoir of love, loss, and literature, comes out on July 1, and it is truly a labor of love. I hope you'll preorder, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country. You can find out more at zibbyowens.com or bookendsmemoir.com. And you can follow me on Instagram at zibbyowens because I always post about everything. Enjoy the show. Adam Mansback and Camilla Alves McConaughey are the authors of Just Try One Bite, a children's book. Adam Mansback is the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, Go the Fuck to Sleep, excuse my language, the novels Rage Is Back, Angry Black White Boy, and The End of the Jews, which was winner of the California Book Award, and a dozen other books, most recently the bestselling, A Field Guide to the Jewish People, co written with Dave Barry and Alan Zweibel. And his memoir in verse, which we talked about a lot in this episode, by the way, I had a brother once. You should definitely read that. It's so good. Mansbach wrote the award winning screenplay for the Netflix original Barry, and his next feature film, Super High, starring Andy Samberg, Craig Robinson, and Common is forthcoming from New Line. His work has appeared in The New Yorker, New York Times Book Review, Esquire, The Believer, The Guardian, and on National Public Radio's This American Life, The Moth, and All Things Considered. Camilla Alves McConaughey, who is Matthew McConaughey's wife, by the way, in addition to being a wife, she is a mother of three and self proclaimed woman on a mission, which I love. She is the founder of Women of Today, which you can find on Instagram at womenoftoday or at womenoftoday.com, which is an amazing online community. And she is the cofounder of JK Livin Foundation with her husband, Matthew McConaughey. Welcome. We have two amazing guests here today on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. We have Adam Mansbach. Am I pronouncing that right? Mansbach? Mansbach.

[3:38]Camila Alves McConaughey: Mansbach. Okay. Adam Mansbach. Adam, you have no idea how many times they tried to get me to pronounce your last name properly. I'm just like, you don't want to hear. I was like, you don't want to hear it.

[3:51]Zibby Owens: Thanks for making me feel better. And also Camilla McConaughey. Did I pronounce that one right? Yes. You got that one right.

[3:58]Adam Mansbach: Whereas I can't spell your last name no matter how many times I try. So we're even really. And

[4:04]Zibby Owens: they are the coauthors of Just Try One by the new children's book, but they are so much more than that. But anyway, this is their collaboration. So welcome and excited to talk about your children's book and your careers and everything. How did you two partner up on this book? Adam, you want to take it? Sure. We're lucky enough to share management.

[4:23]Adam Mansbach: We both are at 3Arts Entertainment. And so word came to me that Camilla was looking to do a children's book and looking for a collaborator. So they thought to bring me in. And we all got on the phone and kind of talked about it, quickly realized we each had three children and a lot of other things in common and, you know, a similar outlook on some of these issues around parenting, around eating. And so we sort of started brainstorming about what this book might be, and then we kind of just took it from there. That's amazing. I have four kids too, by the way. So I'm just like throwing my hat in the ring of Oh, wow. Kid overwhelm. You're overqualified.

[5:02]Camila Alves McConaughey: I don't know how you went for the fourth because I haven't been brave enough for it. It doesn't seem like you neither, Adam.

[5:10]Adam Mansbach: No. Listen. I don't even know how I ended up with this man. I'm real foggy on some of the details.

[5:18]Camila Alves McConaughey: I must say that, you know, really the reality Look, I had this thing in my head, right, of like what I wanted to do, the message, how I wanted to, you know, he wanted to be something preachy and things like that. But my first language is Portuguese. I write long. I'm like, there is no way I can, you know, come up with a short version of what's in my head. And honestly, Adam, like we got on the call, we talked that he said, and boom, I mean, the men just put it into words like that. And when I saw it, I was like, oh my gosh, that's exactly like, you know, like what we talked about and what we got into. And so really he made magic on turning a concept and thoughts and a mission really into something fun, funny that we can all enjoy today, really. May imagine.

[6:11]Adam Mansbach: Crazy, Adam, because your other books were such failures. This seems so unlikely that you would do a good job with this book. Yeah, I just try to keep plugging away, you know, no amount of failure will stop me from continuing to write a bunch of rhymes.

[6:26]Zibby Owens: I did really like the rhyming thing. You know, not all children's book obviously rhyme. And anyway, it was this was great. My kids do not eat healthy at all no matter what I give them. And so turning it, the whole concept on its head to make the parents the ones who don't eat healthy was really brilliant. I loved it.

[6:41]Adam Mansbach: Yeah, that was fun. I think that was When we kind of figured out that approach, it really crystallized for me. And it's funny, like, when I saw the illustrations that Mike Bolt did, it really brought a whole other dimension. I've never been in this position before. I've always had illustrators on board early on. And like, it's a very different process to see the words go out and the art to come back in. And it's like now when I think of the rhymes, when I think of the family in the book, I think of the characters, I think of his illustrations. They're like, He did such a good job that they're now inextricable to me from, you know, the text, which is kind of the highest praise I can give an illustrator. It really is amazing, the work he did. I was showing somebody last night the book, actually, and they're like,

[7:33]Camila Alves McConaughey: he just really made it like as if you were at the dinner table with his family. And

[7:39]Zibby Owens: I was like, so right. It just made it very cozy and you're there with them. I particularly liked the peas in the cuffs of the pants. That was a nice touch. I hadn't thought about that. If only I wore pants with cuffs. Okay. Classic

[7:52]Adam Mansbach: move. Classic move. Classic move.

[7:55]Zibby Owens: My gosh. Well, it's it's really awesome. You know, there's this book by Christina Geiss called Sorry Grown Ups You Can't Go to School. It's like the same thing, this like reverse psychology. You two should like package the book up or something. You know, this is how you deal with school. This is how you deal with food. All these hapless grownups who, you know, just can't get with the program. Anyway, not that you need a partner. And I by way, I interviewed Ricardo Cortez, your illustrator for the other books. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Like, a year or two ago. So that's Oh, nice. Nice. But you too this children's book is an amazing collaboration, but the two of you individually have done such amazing things. And not to change the whole tone of this conversation, but, Adam, I read I Had a Brother once. And it was so powerful and amazing and beautiful. And I'm I'm really sorry for your loss and just so impressed and moved and emotional from reading your book. I don't know. I even I have, like, a line I was hoping I could read if you didn't mind. But if you do, then I don't have to read from it. Yeah. Sure. Camilla, have you read that book of his? Is it like a rose poem? I have not. Oh my gosh. You have to read it. This is at the end of one of the sections, but you said, I'm throwing cliches at the wall. They say a velvet calm descends when people have decided. Gather their supplies, chosen a place, an hour. Their moods lighten, and their loved ones think they've turned a corner, which they have, a different corner. But in my head, that's where he always is, sitting in his car with me screaming, don't do it from the back seat, like some spirit cursed to be unheard. And my mother's mother's father's parents, the famous rabbi's kids, the minion makers of Burlington, Vermont, they squat atop the glass floor of the distant beyond, shaking their great woolly heads and asking why, of all things, did it have to be gas? Ugh. I mean, it's amazing. Like, I know that in the book, you wrote about how hard it was to even write about it. Like, ref like, the sort of self referential, you know, writing of it, how you'd, like you you could see how you couldn't even write. You were like, here it is. I don't wanna start the prologue. I don't wanna start it. I here I go. I mean, anyway, what was that like for you? You know, it it was a writing process really unlike any I've ever

[10:10]Adam Mansbach: experienced before. Took me eight years to write a single word about my brother. And then when I did, I wrote that whole book in like three weeks or something in this very kind of in the room I'm sitting in right now, in this very kind of intuitive and intense and emotional process where I really had no idea where I was going. One of the reasons it took me that long to write about him is that I couldn't get a handle on what form that book ought to take. You know, I tend to think first of, you know, I think first as a novelist. So it was like, is this a novel? Is this a screenplay? Is this an essay? What form could this possibly take? The first book I ever wrote was a book of poetry, but aside from the kind of rhyming, you know, kids stuff and the go the fuck to sleep stuff, I don't generally think to write in those forms, but very much by coincidence, I'd been commissioned to write a piece for a SF jazz performance. I was asked to do a thing with a band a couple of weeks before this. It happened to be also the week that my brother would have turned 40. And all of these things kind of came together, and I came back from this week, spent with a bunch of poets who I really respect and some of my closest friends and people I hadn't seen in a long time. And I was sort of like, had been bathing in the power of poetry for a minute. And I came back and it kind of unlocked the subject matter for me. It allowed me to write in a way that no other form had because, I think because you can get away with so little scaffolding in poetry, you can make ideas interlock simply by proximity. You can move from idea to idea with just a certain kind of rapidity, you know. You can also push off from the shore very fast. Like, you know, I sat down and wrote, you know, for a day and had 20 pages. And it's like, psychologically that makes you feel like, okay, I'm on my way here. This is becoming something quickly. Know what I mean? So, yeah, it was a very weird writing process. And I was not you know, my family was like, what is happening? Because I would stagger out of the room and not really be present because I was just so absorbed in the work. And, you know, so much of what I wrote was stuff that I had been thinking about for those eight years, but a lot of other stuff was stuff I was actually figuring out in the writing process. Like there were connections I was making, thoughts I was having, ideas I was weaving together in the process of doing the work that were like revelatory to me. So I was sort of flabbergasted, just staggered by everything that was happening. So it very intense. Oh, my gosh.

[12:50]Zibby Owens: Well, the end result was, I mean, it's heartbreaking, but absolutely beautiful. And, you know, I've lost a loved one to suicide, not in my family. But anyway, I know that pain, not yours. I know you're not supposed to do that in grief, but I know I'm sure we've all had losses at this point in our lives. Like when I was younger, I'm like, oh, I've had loss when I was in my twenties. Now, like, everyone's had loss. Right? We're in our I'm in my I'm in my mid forties. But anyway.

[13:14]Camila Alves McConaughey: But what a blessing to be able to express that in such a beautiful

[13:19]Adam Mansbach: and inspiring way, Adam. Thank you. Yeah. No, I mean, I will say that my life and my sort of work life balance feels much better to me having written that book. Like in all of that time leading up to it, between my brother's death and actually writing the thing, everything else I was doing, even if I was into it, and I was into all of it, I was like doing work that I felt good about, but I also felt in a part in the back of my brain, there was this part of me that felt like everything I was doing was in avoidance of writing about him, writing that book, that everything else was like comparatively some light, easy, trivial shit if I didn't actually do this. So, you know, having done it makes things feel, yeah, different for me in a way that I'm grateful for.

[14:08]Camila Alves McConaughey: That's really amazing.

[14:10]Zibby Owens: Well, actually speaking of brothers, my brother produced Barry, by the way, the movie Yeah. You Teddy Schwarzman. Did you That's your brother? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. How wow. Crazy. Right? I didn't even I know mean, I was reading your bio before this. And last week, I just accidentally interviewed somebody who wrote Mudbound, and I didn't even know she was the screenwriter for Mudbound. So I called Teddy, I was like, Teddy, I'm accidentally now today, I was like, Teddy, do you know Adam? Because I'm about to interview him. And he was like, yes. Of course. So anyway. That's so funny. Wow. Yeah. Give him a hug for me. I think he thinks I'm like trying to creep on all the screenwriters for this movie. It's like, leave me alone. You know, anyway. That's so funny. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, that's that's my brother. I'm older. Shout out to Teddy. Yeah. I love those guys. The whole the whole Black Bear crew was great. Yeah. You're like the most versatile. I mean, every kind of writing, there's like no kind of writing you don't do. It's pretty awesome. Like, yeah. I try to I try to, you know, try to mix it up. Try to try to keep myself guessing. That's amazing. And Camilla, women of today and I don't know, Adam, how familiar you are you are with this, not as a woman, but whatever. It doesn't matter if I'm a I'm a fan. You're a fan. Good. I mean, it's the most amazing community. And her Instagram, I was just telling her, it's like so hilarious bringing in her mother-in-law and really sharing so openly and honestly, which I love, particularly one in which she wasn't feeling well back in January. And she's and then you said that you were like, that's why I'm using this beauty filter. And I was like, how nice that she said that because I assumed there was no filter on that. Right? I never would have known. So it's very refreshing to have that total authenticity.

[15:52]Camila Alves McConaughey: How did you even start this whole thing? So women of today really came from a passion of learning from each other and building a community where you have bigger conversations. So, starting 2005, okay, I'm going get myself into trouble here with the years. But the reality is when I started these conversations, we weren't having the conversations that we're having today, right? And what I realized, I lived in so many different countries and even on the South Of The United States when I was living in different locations, I would realize that in a matter of days, would have a community that could jump in and help me find things. You know, in a matter of a week, I'm like, kind of where the schools are, what the doctors to go to, their kids' activities, this, this, you know. And if I'm talking to somebody, they go, well, I don't know this, but maybe my cousin does, or somebody I know does. And it was always connecting and learning from other people, right? And then I'll come back home or different places and it'll be very close, very tight. And you just had like, you know, your handful of people that you will call to ask questions. So was like, you know, we need to have an open conversation, especially between women. And we have men too, the community, it is majority women, but we have men as well. And I was like, we just like to have open conversations about things and learn from each other. So really the community started with the basis of how can we do better for ourselves, do better for our family, do better for our community, and outside of that, right? And that's what the whole website is about. And when I first started, so many people that I worked with was like, no, it has to be, you know, your name has to be, and I say, no, this is not about me telling people what to do or how I do things. This is about me going, hey, I've learned this, this worked for me. I'm sharing with you, what have you learned that you can share back with us? Because I can learn something from you. We can learn something from each other, right? And what has worked for me might not work for you, but it might work for somebody else and vice versa, right? So all the content that you see on the website, that you see on the Instagram, it really is what the community is asking us to represent. Trust me, I did not start with a bunch of food. That was not my thing. And as the community started, like it really got food heavy because there really was a need that they really wanted to do better for themselves in food and they were struggling quite a lot with that. So there it is. We got, you know, anything from food to beauty, to hacks, to work, to science, we got a little bit of everything. And we've been able to be very present during the pandemic with everybody at home. So really the community really got to shine and do a lot of social work as well. So it's been quite of a journey that I take a lot of joy out of it. Wow, I would have assumed that you were like this amazing, passionate cook who I would say I'm a passionate cook. Okay. If I'm in a good mood, the food is great. Now, if I'm a little bit off, it doesn't matter if I cook that recipe a thousand times, it's just not that good.

[19:08]Zibby Owens: My husband is the cook in our family. And after the pandemic, he's like, I never want do this again. Like, I can't do this. The kids wouldn't eat anything he made. He was just standing there dejected, like, so sad. So, yeah, your book is the children's book in particular, this whole thing is very welcome. Although I was a little disappointed by all the reminders not to eat sugar because that seems to be an impossible an impossibility for me. I don't know how sugar heavy you are in your life, but cutting it out, I keep trying and it just fails. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zippy.

[22:33]Camila Alves McConaughey: I have a question for you. When you were a girl when you were a child, did you in your household, was the conversation about sugar present or no? Like, the okay. It was well, it was about sweets.

[22:45]Zibby Owens: It was about, like

[22:47]Camila Alves McConaughey: So there we go, like, is so funny to me because I've been talking about this book and I say, Hey, you know, Adam and I are not here to tell you what to do as parents. We're not telling you to follow a certain direction or another. But I will like to tell you, you know, we will like to tell you that the conversation about the relationship with food and how it affects your body and what's good and what's not, that should start early on. And the earlier you start that, most likely you will setting your kids up to a long, you know, long route of better for you habits, you know, it's going to be easier. And I always joke and I think it's a real thing, as you said, for me growing up, look, I come from a family of farmers. So the relationship, you know, my dad is a farm until today. We have a farm together. It's like the relationship from seed to table, it's very clear. It's like boom, right? Now, we never talked about sugar. I could have as much sugar as I wanted. And what do I struggle with until today at my age? Sugar. And then I see my husband, which his parents had the conversation and monitor, you know, let them have him, but not as much. And they understood, blah, blah, blah. He can now sit on a table, have a little bit of dessert and he's like, I'm fine, I'm satisfied. And I'm like, how do you do that? I still struggle with that.

[24:06]Zibby Owens: What about you, Adam? Sugar,

[24:08]Adam Mansbach: not issue? In my You know, what we've done with Sugar is one of the things that with my kids, I've been very deliberate about keeping them away from, like, refined sugar until they're, like, maybe six or seven, because what I've seen it do is just kind of like burn up people's palates. Like if you give young kids sugar, it becomes it's such a strong flavor. It's so pleasurable. It's you know, and like, I was just reading this Michael Pollan book where he's talking about the evolutionary reasons that we are so attracted to sugar and the whole history of it and how before we had easy access to refined sugar, it was all about fruit. It was, you know, this is like, I mean, this whole fascinating history and it's like, it was survival based, right? A food that was high in sugar was telling you it wanted to be eaten so that you could help to spread its genetics and also telling you that it wasn't going to poison you. And we really developed this evolutionary connection to sugar. But, you know, the sugar in an apple is very different than, like, the sugar in, like, a Twinkie or whatever. So, yeah, what I've done with my kids pretty successfully is really limit their sugar, their like refined sugar at a young age. So that by the time it opens up a little, you know, my 13 year old, even my five year old are kind of like, they'll try something now. And they're like, it's too sweet, you know? Cause if all they get is that note of sweetness, it's like not that interesting to them, which, yeah, keeps them keeps their palate a little wider. But, know, Camilla, I don't know if I told you this, but, you know, my cousin was married to a Brazilian woman. My brother was also married to a Brazilian woman. So I've had all these conversations about, I mean, first of all, both of them could cook and I learned some dishes and stuff. My I got a few Brazilian dishes in my Yeah, very my entourage. But the funniest thing to me was always we'd be talking about like some fruit, right? I mean, my cousin's wife Simone would be describing like some amazing sounding Brazilian fruit that I'd never heard of and like Googling a picture. I'm like, Oh my God, that looks incredible. Or she'd be talking about like a mango or a papaya. And she'd be like, I'd be like, So how do you you know, what do you do with papaya in Brazil? She's like, Oh, we put honey on it. Or like, Oh, we put sugar on it. And I'd be like, What? We can't, but like crystallize it. We crystallize it with sugar. Yes. Yeah. So I'd be like, So you're taking the sweetest possible fruit and then dipping it in sugar? Okay, that explains some things like, so you're coming from a culture where that's what you do with fruit. I mean, you know.

[26:45]Camila Alves McConaughey: It is very true. It is very true, you know? And I mean, you guys know this, sugar acts like, you know, a drug in the brain. You get addicted, like it's proven, right? We did a whole thing on Women of Today. Maybe you want to check that out. We have a whole sugar talk on Women of Today and we had different experts come in and talk to us about it. I'll tell you how I got my sugar thing a little bit down. And I don't know if you have tried this. What's, see for me it was chocolate. I used to wake up and eat chocolate. I used to have a piece of chocolate before I went to bed, like next to my bed, literally like take a bite and then go to sleep. It's horrible. And I slowly, slowly walked to your point, Adam, like, you know, retraining your palate, it's where the change happens. Because if you don't, then your palate is always going to tell you, it doesn't taste that good to me. So like slowly, for me, I had to do slowly, like, you know, walking down to the dark chocolate, but slowly little baby steps. And now I'm like, you know, I have that vegan chocolate. I don't know, do you know that brand H. Yeah. Love them. They have the hazelnut chocolate is my favorite. So now I have that, I have a little bit, I'm good. Like, you know, I have more moments, a little moments as women, you know, we go through our times of the month where it's like, give me the sugar, do not ask questions. Like, that's it, right? That seems to be my time all month. I mean,

[28:17]Zibby Owens: don't know. I would like it to just be once a month, but no. Unless I think I've obviously messed up my kids now listening to all of your good advice because I don't know. I've been a little unrestricted about giving them sugar and now of course I've ruined their palates and they're messed up forever, but oh well. They're not messed

[28:34]Camila Alves McConaughey: they're not messed up forever. You used to retrain the palate, you know? I do a version with the kids where we used to do Friday, have whatever you want. So it's Friday free for all, stay up late, watch movie, pizza night. You know, what treats do you want? And they started with all three, they just wanted candy. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll drive them to the gas station, go in. Whatever candy you want, you know, they did, they would come in, watch movies and stuff. Then after like, we did that for a while, I was like, okay, now that they got the, you know, they got the power of choosing what they want and getting what they want. I was like, you know, what about like instead of candy, let's do a dessert. Like, let's do like, you know, what's your favorite dessert? Like, you know, and you know, when it's cake, this or that. Okay, so let's go and get it. Like, you know, so we would go to a bakery or supermarket and get that dessert. And then after they did that for a little bit, I'm like, well, should we make it? Like, should we try, you know, what should we make? So it started like, again, that process of giving them the power. And then in the middle of that sliding in information about what, you know, how bad the candy versus a real dessert. Now a dessert that you buy outside and dessert that you make it. And then now like, don't even, when it gets to Friday night, they're just like, can I just have a little ice cream? You know, like we did it this last Friday. I was like, let's do it guys. And we went to the supermarket. It was like, was like, they were like, you know, so fired up. But again, they still get like two things each, you know?

[30:12]Zibby Owens: Then- Don't they want the leftovers? Like, I feel like we'd get the ice cream pint and then like the next morning they'd be like, okay, breakfast?

[30:20]Camila Alves McConaughey: You have to watch The gas

[30:23]Adam Mansbach: gas station. Right, let's go to the gas station, get the candy. That's so funny. When I It's funny because I'm thinking about when I was a kid and the sort of demonized foods when I was a kid, it wasn't really sugar, it was fat. It was like cholesterol. It was, you know, it's, you know, it was the eighties, right? It was like margarine instead of butter, that kind of thing, which we look back on and it's like, that doesn't make any sense nutritionally. Nobody should be doing that, you know. Nobody should be eating margarine instead of butter or like whatever, like nonfat yogurt. Like these are the wrong things to be worried about. And a lot of fat is good fat and blah, blah, blah. You know, there's always that question of like, will our children look back on and be like, my parents were obsessed with this aspect of health that turned out to be completely incorrect.

[31:18]Zibby Owens: I feel like my next book should be Scarred by Snackwells. Yeah. Right? It's like this Yeah. Like, I can eat a whole package of these because there's no fat. I'll be fine.

[31:31]Adam Mansbach: Yeah. To this day, my father my father's vegan, right? So he grew I grew up with a vegan father in Boston in the eighties. Vegan food in Boston in the '80s was not delicious, right? And it was like but what to me, like the treats in my house, I mean, my mom ate fairly normally, so she had her, like, drawer of chocolate and stuff like that. But the vegan food was all this like very heavily processed, like fake meat kind of stuff. I would get these packages of Morningstar Farms fake bacon, right? Which was made to look like bacon. Because I guess the thinking was like, you stopped eating bacon, but you want something that looks as much like it as possible. It had a fake strip of fat even in it, and you would like cook it. And it was basically just like, I don't know what it was, but it was mostly sodium, it seemed to me. It was just like very salty, crispy.

[32:24]Camila Alves McConaughey: And like, you know, we thought that was good for us, but it was like probably more heavily processed than anything else in my house, you know? You're touching such a good point there because honestly, we haven't come that far from what you're describing right now. A lot of the, you know, the fake meats and all that stuff, it's all over processed things and things that, you know, are not necessarily that good. I'm more to the philosophy of have whole foods. Yeah. Like, which is what we talk in the book. Yeah. So we talk on just try one bite, right? Have whole foods. Your body is going to tell you what can take, what cannot take, you know, you can communicate. If you have majority of whole foods and not just over processed foods, it can do its job. It's got a good fighting weight to go

[33:03]Zibby Owens: against the other stuff. I like how you guys called them slow foods instead of fast foods. That was good, right?

[33:10]Camila Alves McConaughey: Slow. Slow. Slow.

[33:15]Zibby Owens: Okay. So now that I've basically forgot we're even doing a podcast, what advice would you have for aspiring authors, both of you, now that you have Well, Adam, you've written like 8,000 books, but with your children's book and everything else. Look, I'm going to jump in here first and then Adam can go next because this is his

[33:31]Camila Alves McConaughey: expertise. So for me, in terms of an advice is to really look for people that, you know, that you can do great partnerships with if you're not the person that has the It takes a different talent to really be able to put a message in an engaging way, in a fun way, in limited amount of space, right? So, like, if I personally would have sat down and wrote this book, I'm pretty sure I could relay the message. I'm pretty sure it could be fun. I don't think I could have done funny. I don't think I could have done rhyming everything. A rhyming, forget it. It would be impossible for me to rhyme with my Portuguese, you know, but just really, I think that if you are a person that it's like, listen to this and go, hey, you know, I really have this passion for this and I really want to express this way, but I have no idea how to do it. And I know I'm not, it's not my strongest suit, then it's to really go and find somebody that can inspire you to really express the right way and then can hear you. I think that, you know, the beauty of what Adam did, Adam was able to listen what I was passionate about in our conversations, which, you know, a lot of times with writers and people, you know, we've worked with a lot of creative people, they come in with an idea and they want to lock in into that because that's like they're taking autonomy, right? Of like, no, this is my right because this is my expertise, this is what I do. So I'm coming in loaded. And finding somebody that you can partner with that can actually share the voice, I think that would be my advice. If somebody that is looking to somebody to partner with, because really the author on this, the Mr. Adam right here can talk from the author perspective.

[35:25]Adam Mansbach: I think that, you know, when it comes to collaboration with Camilla saying is exactly right. It's very important to be able to listen and come with an open mind and have a really free flowing exchange of ideas and you know depending on the project that can get very involved. There can be a lot of give and take. People can get very entrenched in their positions and start becoming defensive or start just litigating, you know? And sometimes that can be fruitful. Sometimes that's how it needs to go. I mean, there are are writing partners of mine who, you know, like, I have screenwriting partner who will come and stay with us when he and I are working because we work best in a room together. He has the freedom to travel. I do not, but I have the freedom to let him stay in this room that I'm sitting in right now. And, you know, my daughter Viv was like, All you and Danny do is yell at each other. I'm like, Yeah, but that like, that's the process. You know, like, to you, it sounds like yelling, to us, it sounds like friendship, you know?

[36:27]Camila Alves McConaughey: But that's our dynamic, you know? And we think, you know, in our process, Adam, we didn't fully agree with everything. We had back and forths of questions and everything. Because I remember I was actually in the South with friends in the middle of the night, sitting this little staircase, talking to you on the phone, going through, going, but what about this? What about that? Like, you know, we had the back and forths, but it was not painful.

[36:49]Adam Mansbach: No, no. Yeah, no, it wasn't. But yeah, we did have the back and forth. I mean, should always be that back and forth, you know. I think, yeah, to me collaboration is such an interesting thing because for years I didn't really do it on a creative level because I was just writing novels. So I was alone in a room, you know, just me. And the collaboration didn't come until that novel was like sold and an editor was telling me how to change it. And of course, by that time you're heavily entrenched in your position because you've spent years and to switch that mind state and be open and receptive and also figure out how to get to the bottom of a note is really important. I find that more and more as I do more and more not just collaborate with writers, but now that I do a lot of screenwriting and I'm getting notes from the studio, notes from the producers, right? And it's an art to be able to listen and take notes, but it's also an art to dissect the note and get to the core thing. And I think Camilla and I did a little of that. It was like, you know, getting from like, there's something not right about this line or something not right about this sentiment. Sometimes that's intuitive and you don't necessarily know exactly what's wrong with it. You know, I would see this with my students too when I taught writing, when I was in a workshop setting. Somebody will put forth an objection, but it can be a lot of unpacking to get to the root so that you're diagnosing the disease, not just the symptoms, right? Somebody might think the problem is with a piece of dialogue, but if you really talk it through, you find that that's just a symptom and the real problem is with the character, for example, you know? Or some exec is telling you something that is totally incomprehensible and you're just like and you know that if you ask too many questions, they're going to see you as a problem. So you're like, all right, it's like a game show or something where you're like, all right, if I ask four questions, I'm a problem. So I only have three questions to figure out what in the world this dude is trying to say to me because it makes no sense to me. But I got to address it and I got to, you know, make him feel like he's a genius for saying it. So, you know, I don't know. It's it's a yeah. I think it's across all all art forms. Like, I remember very early on in a good friend of mine's career as a musician, he was making commercial he was doing jingles for commercials. And I would always be in his studio because he lived around the corner from me. And I remember he was doing music for a network that no longer exists. And the note they gave him, they were like, Yeah, we want something that sounds like Tito Puente, but not Latin. And he was like, the two of us just sat there for like hours, like, Tito Puente, but not Latin. What are we doing? And I feel like I've been getting that note ever since. Make it quito punte, but not Latin. And you're like, All right, I'm on it. I'll have something first thing Monday.

[39:51]Zibby Owens: I know you need to go, Camilla, and now we've run totally late and I'm sorry. But this has been so much fun. And thank you both for chatting about Just Try One Bite. I know it will be a huge success. So congratulations in advance. And it was really great to meet you both. Yes. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah. Thank you so much. It's good to see you, Camilla.

[40:11]Adam Mansbach: You too. This time we'll be in person, right? We're going be in LA. Oh, Oh, I want to come. I'm in LA a lot. You in LA? Yeah, we're doing The one event we're doing together is at The Grove in LA. When is it? April 1. On April 1, I think. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to look it up. I'll look it up.

[40:29]Camila Alves McConaughey: Third. April 3 at Barnes and Noble's and The Grove. Very exciting. Awesome.

[40:35]Zibby Owens: Camilla, I'm sending you my books.

[40:37]Camila Alves McConaughey: Okay.

[40:40]Zibby Owens: All right. Bye both of you. Thank you so much. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.