Alyssa Shelasky, THIS MIGHT BE TOO PERSONAL: And Other Intimate Stories
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
[0:05]Moms don't have time to read books, and speaking of books, I have two of my own books
[0:10]coming out this spring and summer.
[0:12]Princess Charming is a picture book which debuts on April 19th, and bookends.
[0:17]A memoir of love, loss, and literature comes out on July 1st, and it is truly a labor of love.
[0:24]I hope you'll pre-order, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country.
[0:28]You can find out more at ziviowens.com, or bookendsmemoir.com, and you can follow me on Instagram
[0:35]at ziviowens, because I always post about everything.
[0:38]Enjoy the show!
[0:41]Alyssa Schalaski is the author of This Might Be Too Personal, and Other Intimate Stories.
[0:46]Alyssa is the editor of New York Magazine's Sex Diaries, and author of Apron Anxiety.
[0:51]She is also starring and producing in the Sex Diaries Docuaries on HBO.
[0:56]She has written for numerous publications, including The New York Times,
[1:00]People, Town and Country, Women's Health, Refinery29, Cosmopolitan, and Glamor Magazine.
[1:05]She lives with her family in Brooklyn Heights.
[1:07]Welcome, Alyssa, thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books.
[1:12]Thank you so much for having me right here sitting on your lap.
[1:15]I'm sorry, I couldn't figure out that instead of two microphones,
[1:19]because it's been several years since I've been doing in-person podcasts.
[1:23]So yeah, we're sharing this intimate mic.
[1:27]Wow, that's the name of the book, I guess, in the picture.
[1:29]Are there intimate stories like cuddling with zivi and doing your mic?
[1:34]I'm staying cuddles factory.
[1:36]Okay, Alyssa, I know I emailed you right after I finished this book,
[1:39]but I loved your book.
[1:42]I like fell in love with you as a person, not in like a creepy way,
[1:45]and now I'm like touching it at least.
[1:46]I was even creepier, but you just, all of the stuff that you went through,
[1:51]and the growth and the hardships, and then the ending,
[1:55]and like you took us through so much stuff, like all the stuff of life,
[1:59]and yet you wrote it in such a way that like you could digest it quickly,
[2:04]and you were turning pay.
[2:05]I was like flipping through the pages frantically,
[2:07]and just wanting more and more and more, and so rooting for you.
[2:11]So I feel like it will be impossible for anyone to finish this,
[2:14]and not just like be forever like rooting for your success in every way.
[2:18]So thank you.
[2:20]It's such a sensitive time when you put a book out,
[2:26]and you're just like approval is your oxygen right now.
[2:31]And I'm not used to that because I kind of like to move through the world,
[2:35]not giving a shit with anybody thinks about me.
[2:38]And then you write a book, and you put a book out there,
[2:40]and it's the exact opposite, and you just want to know that people liked it.
[2:45]And it was a pandemic book and like the most unpleasant sense of the word.
[2:51]It was so hard to write it and get it done with my kids at home,
[2:54]and no help in all my deadlines and burying friends,
[2:58]and I don't have to tell you.
[3:00]It was the worst time.
[3:02]And so I wrote this book kind of in, it felt like a fever dream.
[3:07]I don't even remember a lot of it.
[3:08]I was sort of like, what's it going to ask me about?
[3:10]Because I hope I, it just, I wrote it.
[3:14]I promised myself to tell the truth,
[3:16]to be only myself and to get it done.
[3:20]And that was like the extent of the work I did on it.
[3:24]So I'm glad to dig in with you because I don't remember what I said.
[3:29]No, I, you know, but it was, it was a pandemic book.
[3:32]It's raw and it's honest and there's tension in there.
[3:35]And I, and it, you know, that's, that's the reality.
[3:39]That was the reality.
[3:39]So hopefully you made the book even like more authentic
[3:42]because I definitely didn't have time to obsess over how it made me sound
[3:45]or what I was saying.
[3:46]It was just honest and raw and real.
[3:50]Well, it, it shows, well, first of all, it shows,
[3:53]it's like an expose and what it's like when you're a writer
[3:56]and have all these dreams and aspirations and how unstable,
[4:01]unstable, like a revenue stream that provides, right?
[4:04]And the things that you had to juggle and we were talking earlier
[4:09]about, you know, there's this whole element of you trying to sell a show.
[4:12]I feel like that was a real end of the thing.
[4:14]You really from the beginning wanted to sell a show and all of that
[4:17]and how you can even put all of your effort towards selling
[4:21]something for TV and then miss out on all the income.
[4:24]You might have earned or the products you would have done
[4:26]and how it's just so hard to the point where like,
[4:29]even like paying for preschool becomes an impossibility, you know.
[4:33]Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's like this misconception
[4:36]that all these like Brooklyn writers
[4:38]were all trust fund babies or whatever.
[4:40]And it's never been like that for me.
[4:42]Like writing is the way I make a living and I'm very practical
[4:46]about the work I take.
[4:48]I, you know, I have three columns for New York magazine.
[4:51]I've never missed a deadline.
[4:52]I need those jobs.
[4:54]And then I'm like anybody in any job.
[4:57]I'm just like trying to climb the ladder and do better
[5:01]and get bigger roles at bigger jobs.
[5:03]And it's a nonstop hustle, you know.
[5:06]And then you think you're like, okay,
[5:08]well, I have my second book now and this project
[5:11]and the work is in this project and now I am good.
[5:14]And yet it's never enough.
[5:17]Like when do you when do you stop?
[5:19]Like when is it enough?
[5:20]For me, you know, I would like some financial stability.
[5:25]And I would just I think I'll know when it's just like, you did it.
[5:28]You're a success.
[5:29]Like you go enjoy your kids, go enjoy the new little house
[5:33]you bought.
[5:34]You did it.
[5:35]I'm not there yet.
[5:36]I'm still sort of like clawing to that place.
[5:38]But yeah, it's never ending.
[5:40]It's tough.
[5:41]It's, there's worse jobs for sure.
[5:43]But it's just so ironic because anybody on the outside
[5:46]would think 100% you're successful.
[5:48]Are you kidding?
[5:49]This is your second book.
[5:50]You have this new project coming.
[5:52]You have columns.
[5:53]Like you've been a working writer for all this time.
[5:56]Like anyway, I know this is only one sliver.
[5:59]But I just thinks, you know, it's a lot of also just like our
[6:03]own inner voices.
[6:04]And I do know, like I know that I've worked really hard.
[6:08]And it's paying off.
[6:09]And I have a very cool lifestyle because of it.
[6:12]And I know that people like my work and like my voice.
[6:16]I do get all that.
[6:17]I mean, there's just a lot of like mental gymnastics when you're a
[6:20]writer.
[6:21]There's just days where you're like, everybody loves me.
[6:24]And my work is really, you know, everyone's relating to my work.
[6:29]And, and I, everything's happening.
[6:32]And I'm going to get a TV show.
[6:34]And I'm going to write another book.
[6:36]And then like in us in a splash, you're like, everybody hates me.
[6:42]Nobody wants to throw me a book party.
[6:43]Oh my God.
[6:44]I wise my book like taking a space on the shelf when there's so many
[6:48]better writers.
[6:49]And I just want to hide and be with my kids and like never show my face
[6:52]again.
[6:53]And I'm unwanted.
[6:54]And then we are doing our book party together.
[6:57]I'm so excited for that.
[6:59]I can't wait.
[7:00]I cannot wait.
[7:01]I thought I was going to have to sleep in my van because I couldn't find a
[7:04]hotel.
[7:04]Oh, no.
[7:05]Do you want to stay with me?
[7:06]I, he freed men.
[7:08]Oh, yeah.
[7:08]Okay.
[7:08]My shout out to his hotels.
[7:10]But I was like, I'm so, no, my point is I will not miss that event for the
[7:15]world.
[7:16]I'm so excited.
[7:17]Well, let's talk after.
[7:18]Okay.
[7:19]So one of the other things I loved is your relationship with your mom.
[7:22]And I, we haven't really explained this whole book, but it's essentially
[7:26]your life journey from a set period of time as you navigate relationships,
[7:31]deciding that the very safe, traditional guy who you are headed towards
[7:36]marriage is that you don't want that path.
[7:38]That so many people happily take and just slide on by.
[7:41]And you're like, that is not my path.
[7:43]And you had the self assurance and will to say, you know what?
[7:49]I'm going to trust my instincts.
[7:50]And this is not right.
[7:50]And I feel like that's something you kept doing over and over in your life,
[7:54]in the book, in your life, and until you get to a place that is so authentic,
[7:59]but it's in a different path perhaps than other people, right?
[8:02]Like you had a baby and then make the love of your life essentially,
[8:07]which was great.
[8:07]But anyway, the parts about your relationship with your parents, I mean,
[8:12]your mom is like the best character in the book.
[8:15]And when you go through IVF or you're doing IUI or something,
[8:18]and she's in the room with you, which we even tell the story.
[8:21]This is everybody's favorite scene.
[8:23]I know, that's a pick the same thing as other people, like, I'm thrilled.
[8:27]I love my mom.
[8:28]I love for her to, she's out in all my books.
[8:31]Anything I write, my mom's always the star and it all.
[8:34]Yeah, I can tell, I mean, my, I, I host a sex talk show.
[8:40]So I can say these things now.
[8:41]Tracy has trained me, but I can actually say it out that.
[8:45]Oh, well, I write in sex diaries.
[8:48]I'm not going to do that.
[8:49]I mean, I talk about like blow jobs and rim jobs and that pays my rent.
[8:54]So, okay, I had a baby on my own.
[8:57]You'll all learn why it was a journey.
[9:01]But I had to go to, my mother was really there for me for all of it as with my father and sister.
[9:07]And we, it was time for the IUI at NYU and the nurse did the, you know,
[9:13]turkey-based or thing.
[9:14]And then she's like, I'm going to leave you in here to get dressed and, you know,
[9:18]get up slowly.
[9:19]And my mom was there with me.
[9:20]She had been super sweet holding my hand and sort of doing her prayers.
[9:24]And when the nurse left, my mother starts to sort of move herself into like the medicine cabinet
[9:31]at the like supply closet and I'm like, mom, where are you going?
[9:34]And she said, do you have a vibrator?
[9:38]And I was like, no, I don't have a vibrator.
[9:39]She said, you didn't bring a vibrator.
[9:42]And I said, no, mom, what, what the fuck?
[9:48]Anyway, she had read an article that after an IUI, if you simulate like real sex and
[9:54]have an orgasm the way you might during sex, it actually like gets things flowing a little
[9:59]bit.
[10:00]just crouched down from the, you know,
[10:02]then it, you'll meet the rest.
[10:03]But it was quite a moment.
[10:05]I did, I didn't get pregnant that time.
[10:10]And I didn't do the things she wanted me to do.
[10:13]So maybe my mother was right in the end.
[10:15]Who knows, she usually always is.
[10:19]But no, like about what you were saying before,
[10:21]like being, doing it my way and living an authentic life.
[10:25]Like that was actually, I'm so glad you said that
[10:27]because when I was contemplating writing a second book,
[10:31]I was at the beginning of the pandemic.
[10:33]And I was listening to a ton of podcasts.
[10:35]And I would just walk, that's like all I do for my self-care
[10:37]is walk or walk and listen to podcasts or audible.
[10:40]And I was walking around and I was listening
[10:42]to a bernet Brown and like Christopher and Glenn
[10:45]and Doyle all the time.
[10:47]And I love these women and I worship them.
[10:49]But I was like, everyone's talking about vulnerability
[10:52]and authenticity and being yourself.
[10:55]But like, I actually kind of live my life that way.
[10:58]And maybe instead of just listening to tips and guides
[11:02]and how to do it, like maybe I can actually show people
[11:05]what that looks like to a normal person in real life.
[11:09]And I started thinking like maybe I can show
[11:11]what it's like to be vulnerable when you run away from marriage.
[11:17]Maybe I can show what it's like to be vulnerable at your abortion.
[11:20]Maybe I can show what it's like to be vulnerable
[11:22]when you decide you're ready to have a baby
[11:25]and you're done waiting for a man
[11:27]and you don't give a shit what anybody else has to say about it.
[11:30]Like maybe I can just tell those stories.
[11:31]Nobody's gonna come to me to speak on like feminism
[11:34]or women's theory.
[11:36]But I can share my personal stories
[11:40]and show people what it felt like and tasted like
[11:43]and smelled like and how it all played out.
[11:46]And honestly like, look, it worked out.
[11:49]It was scary and painful and hard
[11:53]and I had no one telling me which way to turn
[11:55]but I trust in myself in a real way
[11:57]and it really did work out.
[11:59]That's so amazing.
[12:01]It's so amazing.
[12:02]Thank you.
[12:03]I mean, all these different junctures,
[12:04]I feel like you let us into your decision-making process
[12:07]even the times where you're literally trying
[12:10]to sabotage yourself.
[12:12]Like when you go to the farm and it's like so perfect
[12:14]I don't want to give anything away
[12:16]but during this one relationship
[12:17]you have like a time that's actually really nice
[12:20]and welcome and you like don't even trust it
[12:22]which I totally relate to.
[12:24]I'm like, this is too good, something's wrong.
[12:26]Totally.
[12:27]And you were like, I don't think I can do this.
[12:29]Everyone's, you know, it's just too good.
[12:31]It's too good.
[12:32]Or everyone's, you know, you just go,
[12:34]you walk through life sometimes and you're just like,
[12:36]everyone's got it all figured out
[12:39]and they're all so beautiful
[12:40]and they're all so in love and they're also fertile
[12:44]or like whatever it is that you don't have at that moment.
[12:46]And like, that's bullshit.
[12:48]Like it's exactly the opposite.
[12:51]You, everyone you meet is going through something
[12:54]and is hurting and has been through trauma and pain
[12:57]and is working through it just like you.
[13:00]But yeah, it's in that moment.
[13:02]It was, it was a tough spot for me
[13:04]because everyone was just so perfect
[13:07]and I am not that, I am messy and I'm flawed
[13:11]and thank God.
[13:12]I mean, I love that about myself
[13:13]but it's not always the easiest way to be.
[13:16]Everyone is messy and flawed is the truth of it.
[13:19]And that's what part of what is so amazing about this
[13:22]is like you take all the inner stuff
[13:25]and share it and everyone will relate
[13:28]to some piece of this or another, right?
[13:30]It's just so like, oh, yeah, she worries about that
[13:33]or she does that.
[13:34]And the way even you share heartbreak
[13:36]and relationships that didn't work out and why
[13:39]and how, you know, I found it so interesting
[13:41]when you like loop back around with one of your exes
[13:43]towards the end to find out like, well,
[13:45]what do you think like just, what did we do?
[13:47]Like, did I do something to destroy this?
[13:49]And right, because we tell out these narratives,
[13:51]we tell ourselves, I mean, that's like therapy 101
[13:54]but like we have these stories are inner voices.
[13:57]Like, can they be trusted, you know?
[13:59]I try to like have, I really believe in like perspective
[14:02]and like when you're worked up about something
[14:05]or hurting or upset, I try to look at things
[14:07]from every angle and I can say like,
[14:11]this is how I feel about it
[14:13]but this is actually what happened
[14:15]and like the two can exist, you know?
[14:17]But anyway, that's how I felt with that ex.
[14:19]I was just like, in my mind, I racked everything.
[14:22]I burned us down, I destroyed it
[14:25]and I'm, and I'm like a nightmare, but is that true?
[14:29]And he was like, no, no, hell no, you know?
[14:34]So maybe he was just being generous but it's interesting.
[14:38]The only story that I wanted that was not in here
[14:42]was the story of this book selling
[14:45]and like you getting this book deal
[14:46]because I feel like we were along for the ride
[14:48]for so many ups and downs
[14:50]and then you just kind of mentioned at some point like,
[14:52]and then, you know, I got the second book
[14:54]and then you're so funny because you're like,
[14:55]hi, I didn't rent the seats and that's like,
[14:57]that's so funny, I love that.
[14:59]And then you just go going.
[15:00]So at what point like when did that happen
[15:02]and how did that happen?
[15:04]Not, this is not a criticism
[15:06]and I saw you shooting the book or anything.
[15:07]I'm just saying I was left wanting more.
[15:08]And that's like, oh, good, no, that's great.
[15:11]It happened because I got so busy raising my kids
[15:14]and making a living as a freelance writer
[15:17]that I didn't realize I had been doing,
[15:19]like, my work was kind of popular, you know?
[15:24]You just, you're in the grind,
[15:25]you're making your deadlines and strumming up new assignments
[15:29]and I just didn't really realize
[15:31]until I wrote that article for the New York Times
[15:33]called like, for parents sex is dead or RIP sex
[15:38]or something and the feedback
[15:40]was unbelievable and it went viral.
[15:43]And that article for me was something
[15:45]I just like wrote in a second, you know,
[15:48]probably from the subway and I just put it out there
[15:51]into the world and I, because the feedback was so nice,
[15:54]I was just like, oh, like, I should be doing more.
[15:58]Like I should write a second book.
[16:00]People like what I have to say or more than that,
[16:02]like it's making people happy and feel less alone.
[16:05]And it's easy for me to open up like that.
[16:07]It's very easy for me to talk about sex
[16:09]and heartbreak and, you know, misadventures of the heart.
[16:12]So I called my agent Meg Thompson and I was like,
[16:16]do you think I have another book in me?
[16:17]And at the same time, she knew, and again,
[16:20]I was oblivious to the fact that my sex diaries column
[16:23]for New York magazine had become a really big deal
[16:26]and there's, you know, TV networks interested in it.
[16:30]And anyway, we were just like, oh yeah,
[16:32]you're having a moment, like I'm glad.
[16:34]I didn't even realize because I was just too busy surviving
[16:36]but I was like, something was happening
[16:38]and I just decided to run with it.
[16:39]And I was like, nah, I always knew for the second book
[16:41]I would know when the time was right.
[16:44]And I was like, this is, it's now.
[16:46]Let's go.
[16:47]Let's do it.
[16:48]And I pitched this book to St. Martin's Press.
[16:50]That's who I wanted.
[16:51]And my editor Hannah Phillips, like took it from there
[16:54]and made it all come to life.
[16:55]And it's been a really, really positive experience.
[16:58]I loved it.
[16:59]I would, I can't wait to write my third.
[17:02]Awesome.
[17:03]I can't wait to read the third.
[17:03]You've got the, you've got the plug and plug too.
[17:06]How are you handling the people who you write about
[17:09]in the story?
[17:11]Oh, that's the problem.
[17:13]I mean, the best writers are like,
[17:18]I feel like you have to just not care.
[17:20]You just, I can't care about making people mad
[17:23]or getting upset with you.
[17:24]You can't care about getting sued.
[17:26]Like you just have to be like, fuck it.
[17:28]I'm an artist.
[17:29]I'm gonna write what I want.
[17:30]I'm not that person.
[17:31]I'm, I was like, cool, is that you got this.
[17:36]I, in every other way, like we don't know each other
[17:39]that well socially, but in my personal life,
[17:41]I am very tough.
[17:42]Like don't come for me, don't come for my kids.
[17:45]Like I'm pretty fierce on my mother's daughter.
[17:48]I'm very fierce and strong.
[17:51]When it comes to my books and my work,
[17:55]I don't want to get into any trouble.
[17:57]Again, this is my livelihood.
[17:59]So it's tricky.
[18:00]Like there's a lot more I would have said.
[18:03]Of course, I'm not gonna pretend like there are details.
[18:05]I would have loved to share with the world,
[18:07]but I'm afraid to hurt people I love,
[18:10]and I'm afraid to lose work or whatever.
[18:13]So I try and tell the truth.
[18:17]I try to keep it positive,
[18:19]because most of the people in my life I do,
[18:21]I am madly in love with, you know?
[18:23]And beyond that, I check, I check almost everything
[18:27]with everybody as much.
[18:30]You know, I do the best I can,
[18:32]and then I have really good lawyers.
[18:34]And that's all you can do.
[18:37]It's all you can do.
[18:39]If you're gonna be afraid,
[18:40]you can't call yourself a writer.
[18:42]You can't, it just like, it won't work,
[18:44]or at least in memoirs.
[18:45]You know, like it's novel,
[18:47]writing a novel would be great,
[18:48]because I can just explore all of this
[18:50]and go as deep and dark and dirty as I want it to do.
[18:53]I can be your next thing.
[18:54]I know, it would be like becoming a surgeon, though.
[18:58]It's like a completely different art form, I feel like.
[19:01]No, I don't know.
[19:02]I don't know.
[19:02]I don't know.
[19:03]I bet you'd be really good at it.
[19:05]Well, I definitely, there's a lot
[19:07]that it would be fun to release.
[19:09]Yeah.
[19:09]Yeah.
[19:10]I think that's what you wish you had.
[19:11]Yeah.
[19:12]And what about your kids?
[19:14]Because I know other people often say like,
[19:16]oh, how do you handle,
[19:18]how do you write about your kids?
[19:20]How do you, are they characters?
[19:22]Like, how do you handle that in literature
[19:24]and not just in the book, but even in your life, right?
[19:27]Like, you're very open about who your kids are in posting
[19:29]and whatever, like, did you make that decision at some point
[19:33]and say like, this is great, this is who we are
[19:35]or do you question, I don't know.
[19:37]Like, how would you have thoughts about that?
[19:38]What are your thoughts about that?
[19:39]I'm a really open person
[19:42]and that's who I am.
[19:43]I haven't really had a heavy conversation
[19:46]with myself about it yet.
[19:48]I sort of say to myself,
[19:50]before I write something or post something,
[19:52]is this something I would say that it's in our party?
[19:54]Like, is this something I would share
[19:56]at a work lunch with my colleagues?
[19:59]And if the answer,
[20:00]Here's yes, then I'm okay with it.
[20:02]As far as like my daughter's creation story
[20:05]and the sperm donor and the anonymous,
[20:07]the anonymity of him,
[20:09]I felt more protective of him in a way
[20:12]because that's the unspoken deal.
[20:14]I don't know who he is,
[20:15]but that's the unspoken deal we have
[20:17]is that he will remain anonymous.
[20:19]And I have to respect that.
[20:21]And I love this man.
[20:22]He gave me the greatest gift of my life, my daughter.
[20:26]So I was protective of the few details I know about him.
[20:29]And then I do just think I have a good sense
[20:32]of what's okay and what's not.
[20:34]My kids are still young, my daughter's six, my sons too.
[20:37]I'm sure things will change
[20:38]and it will become a little bit more complicated.
[20:42]But for now, I just trust myself as a mother
[20:45]and I know what I'm comfortable with
[20:48]and I can leave it at that.
[20:50]That's such an interesting thing
[20:52]to love someone and be so grateful
[20:55]to someone you've never met
[20:57]and perhaps will not meet.
[20:58]I mean, who knows, we'll see what happens.
[21:00]And that he could just be walking past you
[21:03]sitting next to you on the subway.
[21:04]Like, do you look at everybody around?
[21:06]Ever and think like,
[21:08]I mean, I know you have the one thing
[21:09]where you thought maybe that was him,
[21:10]but there's this scene in the book where,
[21:13]so donors get celebrity lookalikes.
[21:16]And I actually, I call him Vince Vaughn.
[21:19]I disguise that because the real,
[21:21]if you were to go to California, cryo-bink
[21:24]and that would have been too revealing.
[21:26]It was an actor like Vince Vaughn.
[21:28]I thought I saw him in real life in LA.
[21:31]And I was like, this is the moment.
[21:32]Like, and what do you say?
[21:34]Like, I was just, for me, I'm never speechless,
[21:37]but I was speechless.
[21:38]I was almost positive.
[21:39]This was a sperm donor.
[21:40]Just based on who I imagined he would grow up to be.
[21:42]I've only seen childhood photos.
[21:45]And I just made, first of all, I was frozen.
[21:47]And I could have, I just couldn't move.
[21:49]I was in a state of shock.
[21:51]And also, I just made this quick mental calculation
[21:55]that it was better.
[21:56]He remained a mysterious superhero to me.
[22:03]It was better he remained a fantasy.
[22:05]I didn't want to know that he was like going to his job
[22:08]at Home Depot and then to like, choir practice
[22:12]or who knows, like all that would have been great
[22:14]at no judgment.
[22:15]But I don't want those details.
[22:17]I just want him to be like this angel gorgeous
[22:22]with great genes, very healthy DNA,
[22:25]angel who helped me get pregnant.
[22:29]And I can leave it at that.
[22:31]Yeah.
[22:32]That's amazing.
[22:33]Yeah.
[22:34]I even love how you, at one point in the story,
[22:37]you're like trying to figure out, you're like,
[22:38]I feel like something's coming next.
[22:40]I feel like I'm getting this five.
[22:41]And then I was like, oh, it's motherhood.
[22:43]Like, that's what I want to do next.
[22:45]Like, I just know it.
[22:46]Now 100% I've identified it and now I'm doing it.
[22:49]I'm so glad that someone rate my parents raised me
[22:53]or who knows I was born with the sense to grab that.
[22:57]Like, when you know something to be so true
[23:00]that I just grabbed it and I was not letting go of it.
[23:04]I was convinced it was now is the time.
[23:07]And I meet so many women now who are like,
[23:10]just trying it on for size,
[23:13]like maybe I'll become a single mom or whatever.
[23:15]And I'll see it.
[23:16]And then I'm like, they're not ready to grab it.
[23:17]Yeah, anyway, be aware of me.
[23:19]If you want to have a baby and you're not sure how,
[23:21]because I will get you pregnant.
[23:23]I am like relentless because it was,
[23:26]it was the best decision ever.
[23:27]And I granted I had a built-in support system,
[23:30]tons of family.
[23:31]I never had a nanny, but I had my mother,
[23:33]my father and tons of friends.
[23:35]But I don't know.
[23:36]I got it.
[23:37]If you want to be a mom and you know that for sure,
[23:40]just you have to make it happen.
[23:41]It's too tragic otherwise.
[23:43]And there's so many ways.
[23:45]Somebody once said to me when I was trying
[23:47]to get pregnant, I never met a woman who wanted
[23:51]to become a mother and didn't find a way how.
[23:53]Right?
[23:54]There's ways.
[23:55]There's hope to be a mother too.
[23:57]That exactly.
[23:58]Many definitions and just there's lots of hope.
[24:03]You're from a Jewish family.
[24:04]And I feel like your Judaism also played a role
[24:07]as one of the themes in the book.
[24:08]And I just just talk a little more about that
[24:10]and how it plays into your life now.
[24:13]And yeah, thanks for it.
[24:15]It's so funny when we were talking about press for the book.
[24:17]They're like, how about folk?
[24:19]And like, hopefully we'll get zippy.
[24:21]And I was like, what about Boston Jewish life?
[24:25]Everyone doesn't even know that's a magazine.
[24:27]I don't know why.
[24:29]And of course, like 90 seconds for you.
[24:30]Why?
[24:31]Like there were so many things.
[24:32]I really felt like this book had such a Jewish soul.
[24:36]And I rejected my Jewish for many years.
[24:39]I never cared about marrying a Jewish guy.
[24:42]I mean, I still haven't ever had pork or shellfish,
[24:45]which is shocking considering I had a baby
[24:47]with a Lebanese sperm donor.
[24:48]But you know, being Jewish is a lot about contradictions.
[24:53]And I've embraced those contradictions.
[24:55]I just all I can say is when I got pregnant with Hazel,
[24:58]the Jewish community, the Khabad, and not to be like preachy
[25:01]or whatever, because it's not for everyone.
[25:03]But they were really there for me.
[25:05]They in so many ways without wanting anything back.
[25:08]And it meant a lot to me.
[25:10]When I was about to become a single mom,
[25:12]a people that lifted me up and supported me,
[25:16]I will never forget.
[25:18]Like I will never forget my friend, Heather,
[25:20]who left me a homemade, like jar of lentil soup,
[25:23]the day I came home from the hospital.
[25:25]My friend Danielle, I mentioned her a million times
[25:27]in the book who like bought me a fancy off crib.
[25:30]Like this was almost seven years ago.
[25:32]Like I will never forget these things.
[25:35]And you know, it's important to hold on to that.
[25:37]That's the stuff that matters.
[25:39]Give me goosebumps.
[25:42]No, it's true.
[25:43]People, sometimes the people you least expect
[25:45]come for it in 10,000 years.
[25:46]100%?
[25:47]Oh my gosh, that's so nice.
[25:49]Oh my god, absolutely.
[25:50]I talk a lot about it, but I don't talk a lot about it.
[25:53]But I'm like the opposite of a class mom
[25:56]or the opposite of like a PTA mom.
[25:58]I'm busy, I'm disorganized.
[26:01]My kids never show up with the right t-shirt
[26:04]for the right event.
[26:05]And I'm always like, oh, PTA moms did it.
[26:08]And then recently somebody who was very involved
[26:11]in my daughter's school asked me for coffee.
[26:13]And I was like, oh, she's going to want me to write
[26:15]something for them.
[26:16]And they're going to, and I was like, OK,
[26:18]but I have a heart out in 20 minutes, very important.
[26:22]And she was like, we just wanted to throw you a book party.
[26:26]Like we just wanted to have an event for you.
[26:29]And we want to pay for it.
[26:30]And we said it, we found a place in their end.
[26:33]And I was like, I was moved to tears.
[26:35]Because here I am judging, like all these super moms.
[26:40]Because I feel like I'm not one.
[26:42]And they were just there to show up for me.
[26:45]So it is.
[26:45]It does come from unexpected places.
[26:47]And I really, I have so much gratitude.
[26:51]I'm not just using the word.
[26:52]It's like, it fills my heart.
[26:55]I love that song.
[26:56]I love that song.
[26:57]What kind of books do you like to read?
[27:00]OK.
[27:01]So I'm an audible whore.
[27:07]I just went on a real Taylor Jenkins read binge.
[27:11]I did it all backwards because, God forbid,
[27:13]I'd do anything the normal way.
[27:14]So I did Malibu rising, Daisy Jones.
[27:17]I loved Daisy Jones so much.
[27:19]I can barely talk about it without starting to quiver.
[27:23]And then the Evelyn one, which is Molly Shannon's book.
[27:28]Have you started it yet?
[27:29]I have it right here.
[27:31]Do it on Audible so you can hear her voice.
[27:33]OK.
[27:33]I will.
[27:34]That's a great idea.
[27:35]It is so good.
[27:36]Zibi, I'm not saying this because we're friends.
[27:38]It is so good.
[27:39]It's so heartbreaking.
[27:40]And it's so funny.
[27:41]Everybody says that about every single book.
[27:43]But this one is truly a combination of it.
[27:46]I think she had such trauma in her life early
[27:48]and all that until I was reading all her views and everything.
[27:50]Yeah.
[27:51]I just texted my friend, the one friend I know Molly from.
[27:54]And I was like, am I going to die at the end of this book?
[27:57]Like, is it going to break my heart?
[27:58]Is it going to destroy me?
[27:59]And she's like, you're going to cry.
[28:00]And I said, OK, I'm going to wait until I put my book out
[28:04]until I get through all this.
[28:05]I don't think I can handle just crumbling
[28:09]to the ground in Brooklyn Heights sobbing right now.
[28:11]I'm fragile enough.
[28:14]So that's the genre.
[28:16]I'll read Jesse Klein's book.
[28:17]I'm sure I'll love it and hate it because I want to be her so bad.
[28:23]And I love your books.
[28:24]Oh, thank you.
[28:26]I just got it as you know.
[28:27]So I haven't got it too far.
[28:29]But it's right in my wheelhouse.
[28:30]Thank you.
[28:32]I do feel like there are similarities to our stories
[28:34]in some ways, like setbacks and writing
[28:37]and trying to accomplish something in obstacles and books.
[28:41]And I don't know.
[28:42]Or maybe it's what I know about.
[28:43]It's more like what I know in my head
[28:46]that maybe is not even in the book.
[28:49]You know what I mean?
[28:49]Right.
[28:50]I feel like I pick up on it, but I get what you're saying.
[28:52]I don't know.
[28:52]Maybe in it.
[28:53]Yeah.
[28:53]But no, well, there's a reason.
[28:55]Like we wouldn't be here today, like in your living room.
[28:59]Touching knees.
[29:00]If we didn't feel like a certain sense of closeness.
[29:04]I promise.
[29:05]I will set the second leg up on that too.
[29:07]No, it's great.
[29:08]It's great.
[29:09]This is like real down-to-earth, like gritty podcasting
[29:13]on the upper east side.
[29:14]That's not what I'm doing in the whole time.
[29:16]I'm like, I know.
[29:17]You're like, I thought you'd have like
[29:18]a quick-ended fever for my head set.
[29:20]Where's my assistant?
[29:21]Where's my Pellegrino?
[29:22]No, no, no.
[29:23]I literally plug in the one I bought on Amazon from day one.
[29:27]And this is how I still do it.
[29:28]I love it.
[29:29]It's good.
[29:30]It's you.
[29:31]I actually want to say I only have two regrets about the book.
[29:36]One that I call Jake Gyllenhaal and asshole.
[29:40]I did notice that.
[29:41]I was surprised by that.
[29:42]I had not heard that, but I'm not saying it's not true.
[29:46]It just came out so harsh.
[29:49]And I see a sister almost every day in my neighborhood.
[29:53]And I'm just like, I want to be her friend.
[29:55]But I also don't want her to find out
[29:57]that I'm the one who called her brother and asshole.
[29:59]So I have a-
[30:00]and the second one is like I wish I had like declared my like love for you
[30:04]somewhere in the book not like don't like I wouldn't dedicate the book to you
[30:11]but um but we got closer and you started becoming like I supporting this book
[30:17]in particular after it was all said and done and and not the printer and
[30:21]everything I do not I know you don't care I know you care zero but you have to
[30:26]me been part of this journey and yeah I will dedicate my third book
[30:31]I know you would die that would not your style but I just wanted to say
[30:37]that oh you're so sweet that's really nice last question you and Jake Gyllenha on
[30:43]the same sentence yeah thank you two regrets Jake and me what advice do you have
[30:48]for aspiring authors oh god what can I say that hasn't been said before again
[30:53]I'm not the kind of author that's like go deep into the woods and like
[30:56]find your inner soul I'm like get an internship work your ass off make a
[31:03]million contacts prove yourself to be invaluable do good work never miss
[31:08]a deadline hustle email someone an editor back a hundred times in a row if
[31:13]they're too busy to get back to you I mean that's the kind of advice I would
[31:17]give is just push hard fight for yourself advocate for yourself assert yourself
[31:22]no editor or agent or whatever is going to going to begrudge you for being too
[31:29]confident or too aggressive or too hungry it's a beautiful thing so yeah just
[31:34]go for it with everything thank you listen it's so fun thank you so much
[31:39]congratulations I can't wait to see it come out in the world and all the
[31:44]exciting things to follow thank you we do hi I'm Zibi Owens and you're
[31:53]listening to the award-winning podcast moms don't have time to read books if
[31:56]you like this podcast you will love my new anthology called moms don't have
[32:01]time to have kids check it out and you'll hear from 49 authors about all sorts
[32:05]of things moms don't have time to do all the authors have been on this podcast
[32:09]also check out my TikTok at with Zibi and Tracy my other podcast sex talk with
[32:14]Zibi and Tracy check out moms don't have time to write on medium and of course
[32:18]my new publishing company called Zibi books and now back to our daily author
[32:23]interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids enjoy the show