Alice Faye Duncan, OPAL LEE AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE FREE: The True Story of the Grandmother of Juneteenth
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms. Don't have time to read books
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[0:12]365 days a year and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career
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[0:29]A memoir of love, loss, and literature wherever books are sold starting July 1st and my children's book princess charming
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[0:58]Alice Fay Duncan is the author of Opel Lee and what it means to be free the true story of the grandmother of June
[1:04]Teeth she is a national board certified teacher who writes for young learners
[1:09]Memory is her motivation. She writes to help children remember important moments from African American history
[1:14]Her books are celebrated for vivid imagery and lyrical texts that sound like music
[1:19]Alice's most popular titles include a song for Gwendolyn Brooks
[1:23]Just like a mama honey baby sugar child and Memphis Martin and the mountaintop which received a
[1:28]2019 karate Scott King honor medal Alice lives in Memphis Tennessee
[1:32]Where the young age her mother nurtured her writing talent with prayer poetry books and praise welcome
[1:37]Alice, thank you so much for coming on mumps don't have time to read books to discuss
[1:41]Opel Lee and what it means to be free. Thank you for the invitation. It's my pleasure
[1:47]What a beautiful book. I mean first of all the illustrations you must be so thrilled with there's a just
[1:52]Amazing your illustration illustrators at Tora Bobo. Is that right? How is it?
[1:57]Beautiful, but honestly the story well, why don't you tell us in our first what it's about and then I'll go off about all the things
[2:02]I love about it
[2:04]Well, well, well, Opel Lee and what it means to be free is the story of miss Opel Lee who is called the grandmother of
[2:12]Juneteenth the reason that they call her the grandmother of Juneteenth is because
[2:17]In 2016 she started a commemorative walk across the nation
[2:23]Encouraging national politicians congressmen and senators to vote for Juneteenth to be a national holiday
[2:32]Now people would say well, what is Juneteenth? Juneteenth is that day two years and in 19 days after
[2:41]The emancipation proclamation that the enslaved
[2:44]Discovered in Texas that the emancipation had been signed and that they were free. So it is considered
[2:53]figuratively the last day of American the institution of American enslavement
[3:00]Wow, but Opel Lee's story herself. It doesn't all end with the happy day
[3:06]So why don't you talk about how you chose to depict
[3:10]The tragedy honestly, they came next with all of the
[3:14]With her house burning down and all of that time to keep going
[3:19]You know, I do believe that
[3:22]Life that we have these predestined moments in life
[3:27]That shape us and they determine the whole trajectory of what we will achieve
[3:33]And so what happens to Opel Lee is she's living in Fort Worth, Texas
[3:38]When she's 12 years old in 1939
[3:43]Her family moves to a new neighborhood where they are the first black family in the neighborhood
[3:49]And they are terrorized by segregationist. They burn the home a mob comes burn their home
[3:55]They they evangelize the things in the home and so her her mom and dad move the family away
[4:02]Okay, but the irony of it is that this tragedy
[4:07]Happens on June 10th day 1939 and so it is
[4:14]What happens to Opel Lee when she is a child you would think she would become she would become filled with anger and
[4:22]Hatred because of what was unequivocally done to her and her family
[4:28]But that
[4:29]Experience leaves
[4:32]Something else with Opel Lee. It's the thing that makes her when she grows up
[4:38]Become so committed to justice and so committed to
[4:42]racial racial reconciliation and so
[4:46]You know the the embers burn but in her heart they don't burn with rage
[4:52]They burn with a commitment to
[4:55]galvanize us all under the banner of unity love
[5:01]And justice and hope
[5:03]That you had a line that
[5:05]Struggle with something
[5:08]Hold on let me find it so I don't miss quote you because it was so beautiful
[5:11]He said I learned a big lesson at June 10th day freedom is a golden coin struggle makes it shine
[5:18]Yes, yes
[5:20]My father my father would say, you know
[5:22]My father was a survivor of the Vietnam war and my father would say where there is no cross
[5:28]There is no crown and and that's what that that that phrase means
[5:33]It means that in order to achieve anything
[5:38]Liberty your dream your hope the career of your choice little children have to learn that without the struggle
[5:46]There is no achievement right without the rain there are no flowers, right?
[5:50]That's I was gonna say Max good and bad rain
[5:53]Good and bad work together like the sun and rain. Yes
[5:57]This whole this whole page with that quote could be like on someone's wall, you know, that's beautiful
[6:03]Thank goodness. It's a good reminder. It's really important. All of these messages. I mean
[6:08]That's an understatement extremely important
[6:11]But have applications in so many different ways for all of the resilience and and the perspective
[6:17]Right the perspective and even the gift of her story to openly storytelling itself
[6:22]wanting to share the story and the message and not let people forget and
[6:27]How to motivate people right how to see the positive and the most horrific situation ever exactly and and something else that
[6:38]Is very important when we think of openly or when we think of anybody who is doing
[6:45]Heroic things in their feeble humanity because we are all
[6:49]feeble humans, but we're capable of doing really heroic things and the thing that's important is that when you want your children to live
[6:58]bravely and when you want your children to be courageous
[7:02]Then it's necessary that we show them models of people
[7:07]Living in a life who are doing courageous things and who are doing
[7:12]Rave things and so I think to have openly be 96 and still living in the world with us and this
[7:20]Juneteenth little children can read about her life, but then they can also turn on the television and see her
[7:27]You know engaging up little children around the nation in her walk
[7:32]Engaging dignitaries, you know engaging her neighbors because in in her neighborhood. She is a civic worker. She provides
[7:41]Food for those who are hungry. She provides clothing for those without clothes
[7:46]She provides help spokes to find shelter. She is a real civic worker
[7:50]She is not someone who has done this for fame and claim
[7:55]But she did it because in her heart of hearts since the late 70s early 80s
[8:02]She has believed that Juneteenth is one holiday that can that can unite us under the ban
[8:11]of
[8:12]Liberty and unity
[8:15]Amazing. She's amazing and so is the book
[8:19]And this is not your first book nor your last yard
[8:21]You have another one coming out very soon. Wait. Tell me about the next one. That's that's coming
[8:26]You saw me. Did you see me? I was like I want to talk about it. I want to talk about it
[8:31]So my very next book called yellow dog blooms which is a blues fable that is set in the Mississippi Delta
[8:40]It's a story about a little boy who's yellow dog his hound dog runs away and ultimately
[8:46]It's the theme is love loss and learning how to live
[8:51]Despite it all and appreciate the joy of what you did have even though it is now gone
[8:59]Wow, that's wonderful
[9:01]It's so I pray that you have me back so we could talk about it. It's gonna be it's and the illustrator
[9:07]The illustrator is chris rostah who is a two-time cow to cut award winner
[9:12]But he does a lot of books about music musicians
[9:16]He's done a book on
[9:18]Charlie Parker the the loneliest monk but but the reason why the book also relates to oblique is that
[9:27]In 2016 I had written the manuscript for yellow dog blues and
[9:33]Traditionally in publishing they pair black writers with black illustrators and
[9:40]White writers with white illustrators and so 2016 a lot of stuff was happening
[9:46]And I was I was I was wanting to manufacture my own hope
[9:51]I was wanting to manufacture my own sunshine and so I said well, what can I do?
[9:57]What can I do under the banner of racial
[10:00]reconciliation. And so I have this story. We know that blues music is American music. We know that
[10:07]that we all love blues music. We know that sun and rain shines in all of our lives. It comes to
[10:14]all of us. And so I thought, you know what I can do? Opposed to going the traditional way of a
[10:20]black writer working with a black illustrator. In under the banner of racial reconciliation, I'm going
[10:27]to seek a white illustrator to work with me so that I will be conscious about what I'm doing
[10:38]and the creation of this book. And Chris Roska loves music. He loved blues. And immediately when
[10:47]I sent it to him and I gave him the proposal of the idea, he was like, I'm busy. He's like, I'm
[10:54]busy. But I will make time for this because I do think it's important. And so we've created
[11:02]something beautiful and like openly, openly had Juneteenth as her vision to do something under the
[11:13]banner of unity, to do something to bring Americans together in this already divisive world. And so
[11:22]that was my tribute to do something under the banner of racial reconciliation, something
[11:28]that says, hey, I want to be intentional about me connecting with others who do not perhaps come
[11:37]from my, you know, my African-American culture. Wow. That's amazing. By the way, do not think I've ever
[11:43]heard anyone so excited about their next project. I was like, yeah, I was like, oh yeah, listen. I
[11:48]was like, this is the best book I've ever had. If you give me an opportunity, I will send you
[11:55]like some galley copies of the book so that you can see what I'm talking about because what he's
[12:01]done is you know, and the Mississippi Delta cotton was king, right? And so burlap sacks were everything
[12:09]because that's how they bailed the cotton. And so what Chris does in yellow dog blues is he renders
[12:18]the art with paint and embroidery. He tried burlap on his storyboard, but that was too heavy. So
[12:27]when it was he, he instead replaced the burlap with linen. And when you photograph it, it still has
[12:36]that burlap look to it. So, so the embroidery, the paint, the burlap, all of it coming together,
[12:42]you're talking about the Mississippi Delta, which is an agriculture environment. And then you're
[12:48]talking about blues, the hard labor of sharecroppers, the memories and the legacies of the enslaved.
[12:55]You're talking about what we all know, love, loss, abandonment, and being learning how to be okay
[13:01]with that. And, and the really bold thing is it's a story where it is a ending of resolve,
[13:12]but it is not the ending that the kid was hoping for and isn't that life sometimes. Yes.
[13:19]Wow. Well, that's very exciting. And I'm really excited that you're so excited.
[13:25]You know, why not? It's like you got a new baby, right? So yeah, maybe you want everybody to get
[13:31]get geeked about it, right? I was literally, I was just interviewing some of the other day, and she
[13:36]had one, a massive prize for one of her books. And I was like, do you ever get sick of just talking
[13:40]about that book all the time? She's like, yes. I don't know if she wants to talk about the next thing.
[13:46]Anyway, I'll, yeah. And then I understand. But you know, like your children, all of them are lovely
[13:52]and all of them are imports, of course. Of course. I read your whole history of how you wanted to be
[13:59]a librarian and you got a scholarship. And for a while, you were doing that. And then I happen
[14:05]to dance. You got into public school education and then you want to private or was it reversed.
[14:09]Anyway, and then this is my 29th year teaching a public school. And it is also my last year.
[14:19]It is. Next year, I will be a full-time writer. Wow. Oh, my goodness. Well, I can see
[14:25]it's why you are like the best teacher. I wish I had had you as a teacher. Oh, my gosh.
[14:30]Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What grader are you teaching? I know
[14:34]I'm a high school librarian. Oh, my gosh. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to miss,
[14:40]I'm going to miss my students. But, but you know, but also I'm looking forward to being creative.
[14:46]Because here's the thing. I started out wanting to be a writer first, right? But you know,
[14:52]sometimes art doesn't pay or sometimes it takes your art life and the coins coming from art.
[15:00]It takes it some time to really develop and move beyond fledgling to prosperous, I guess. And so
[15:07]I became a librarian and a school librarian specifically. And the process of that has been so
[15:16]edifying because in doing so, I know the curriculum and I see the gaps in the curriculum.
[15:23]So now after 29 years of seeing the gaps in the curriculum and only being able to address them
[15:31]on the weekends and on holidays and in the summer when I have swaths of long swaths of time to write,
[15:38]you know, now I call it Providence God, you know, sweet baby Jesus has allowed me this opportunity
[15:46]to now just really luxuriate in thinking about writing and seeing how I can now edify kids in
[15:57]another way where I have been now I've been distributing the books and disseminating the books.
[16:03]Now I can really look back and see how I can write the books, you know, or you know, like that.
[16:10]As a librarian for all this time, are there books that time and time again kids go to that
[16:15]we might be surprised to hear about or that you recommend that are sort of underrated or
[16:21]honey, I love by Eloise Greenfield, which is a collection of poems that she did almost over 30 years
[16:28]ago. And so this, it's just very small and compact, but it has two favorite poems of mine in it.
[16:36]One of them is Things, which is about the power of writing, how poems never die. Like a variety of
[16:43]gifts will come and fade, but a poem lasts forever. So that's one of my favorite poems. And then the
[16:49]other poem in here is Harriet Tubman. And a lot of the kids, because you know, I do, I still do school
[16:55]when I was working, I was still able to do a variety of school visits in my district, like, you know, for
[17:01]open house and family reading night and stuff like that. And so another one that I share from this
[17:07]book is called Harriet Tubman. And a lot of the little kids in elementary school, they call it by
[17:12]the first line, which is Harriet Tubman didn't take no stuff. So I just, I love those poems because
[17:20]Harriet Tubman is someone who was tenacious, she was determined, and she lived by faith. She,
[17:28]you know, she walked going to a land, I guess like Abraham, that she knew not of, but she's
[17:33]talking about walking, right? And things, because it's about writing and about how poems can be permanent
[17:41]eternal, everlasting, you know, I believe that also. Amazing. Thank you for the recommendation.
[17:49]I want to get that now. What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[17:54]I would, I would encourage them to read poetry every day, you know, and, and whatever religious
[18:00]practice that they practice, whatever religion that they come from, that religion has a book,
[18:07]right? And, and, and most of all of those religious books are written in a poetic language
[18:14]that is alive and living. And, and it touches us in a very organic way. So I would advise
[18:22]reports every day. If you practice a religion, you know, read your religious texts because
[18:28]that poetry is organic and alive. And what happens is you just, you gain this facility or this
[18:39]ability with the words, but you also begin to hear, you know, you begin to hear with your own
[18:46]ear and you just begin to develop your own voice. I also would recommend reading Gwendolyn Brooks,
[18:53]reading Langston Hughes, reading Paul Laurens Dunbar, Eloise Greenfield, reading, reading Mary Oliver.
[19:01]I'm naming you some of my favorite, Mary Oliver, James Whitcomb Riley, James Whitcomb Riley,
[19:07]Honey Child, Honey Child. I love him. Paul Laurens Dunbar and James Whitcomb Riley, in fact,
[19:14]I mean, and of course I love Gwendolyn Brooks, because I have a book about Gwendolyn Brooks,
[19:18]but, but James Whitcomb Riley and Paul Laurens Dunbar, I like because they use the vernacular
[19:23]of the house of the home. And that's what I also would tell writers. It's okay to use your mother's
[19:30]language that your mother's language, the Queen's language, it's okay because that's organic for
[19:37]you. That is authentic to you. And the things that you're going to talk about are going to be
[19:43]universal because you are having a human experience. So I don't care what culture you're coming
[19:48]from. You're having a human experience and your language is good. It's very, very good. And
[19:54]what you write from the heart will reach the heart. And I'm saying that because my mother was
[20:00]school teacher. And I used to because Paul learns done by with somebody I read when I was young,
[20:05]my mother would wake me up in the morning saying, Eli is lies, bless the Lord. Don't you know
[20:10]the day is brought. If you don't get up, you scap there'll be troubling this guy. Now my mama was
[20:14]getting up every morning with that. And then when she would find cause I'm an only child, when she
[20:20]would find my little poems around the house, I was writing in an African-American vernacular.
[20:27]It's what I heard often in the home when we were being casual with each other.
[20:31]It's the poetry that I was reading. But to my mother's chagrin, how let's say can we say that
[20:38]differently? And I grew up and I said, no, we cannot. Oh my gosh, you're amazing. I feel like you
[20:47]need to do more like everyone, you should do like YouTube videos or you should like get out on the
[20:52]world. I've been busy working. So I've been next year. Maybe next year. Maybe next year.
[20:59]Maybe next year. You will promise, promise you will invite me back for September where maybe we
[21:05]can read from yellow dog blues. Maybe we should do like a live event or something like Instagram.
[21:12]Let's do it. Let's do it. Because here's the thing. Opelie said if she did not speak about Juneteenth,
[21:22]perhaps no one else would. So she took it as her one woman campaign across the nation.
[21:30]And we now have Juneteenth as a holiday. So I have that same approach about blues music.
[21:35]Because I live in Memphis and Memphis is considered the front door of the Mississippi Delta.
[21:40]And so I believe that if I don't share blues music with young children, they won't have an
[21:48]appreciation for this music, which is original American music. I don't want them to wait to go to
[21:57]college and have to listen to college radio to gain an appreciation for what is very American,
[22:03]very old and very therapeutic for the human soul, right? And so I'm like, I was like, how can I
[22:12]introduce kids to the blues? And I was like, okay, I'll write a story about a dog. Amazing.
[22:18]Amazing. I was saying it was so lovely to get to know you today. Thank you so much. And
[22:25]this will be running on Juneteenth. So you will help with education awareness, making a difference,
[22:31]all that good stuff. Thank you so very much and have a super day. Thank you, you too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
[22:38]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[22:42]forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[22:47]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[22:52]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for
[22:56]the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[23:01]now trim music.