Patti Callahan, ONCE UPON A WARDROBE and SURVIVING SAVANNAH
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
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[0:58]Patty Callahan Henry is the author of Once Upon a War Job and Surviving Savannah.
[1:03]She is a New York Times and USA Today best-selling author of 16 novels,
[1:07]that's 16 novels, and a podcast host.
[1:11]She's the recipient of the Christie Award 2019, winner of Book of the Year,
[1:16]also the Harper Lee Distinguished Writer of the Year for 2020, and the Alabama Library Association Book of the Year for 2019.
[1:23]She is the co-host and co-creator of the popular weekly online Friends and Fiction live web show and podcast.
[1:30]Which by the way, I was a guest on when it was so nice of them to have me.
[1:33]Patty is also a contributor to the monthly life lesson essay column for Parade Magazine,
[1:38]a full-time author and mother of three.
[1:39]She now resides in Mountain Brook, Alabama, and left in South Carolina with her husband.
[1:44]Welcome, Patty.
[1:45]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:46]On mom's turn of time to read books, we're going to discuss Surviving Savannah and also Once Upon a War Job.
[1:53]Congratulations.
[1:54]Thank you.
[1:55]I am so thrilled to be here.
[1:56]We get to talk off-camera sometimes, but it's nice to do it and actually discuss books.
[2:01]This is fun.
[2:02]Thanks for having me.
[2:03]Of course.
[2:04]Thanks, you know, we first, well maybe not first, but one of the times we got to know each other was when you all were interviewing me,
[2:10]which is so nice on Friends and Fiction.
[2:12]And I just love all of your co-hosts and you guys do such a good job.
[2:16]I was so blown away by how professional all that.
[2:19]It was just that from everything from the graphics to the conversation to the coordination.
[2:24]It felt like I was on a real show.
[2:26]We were on a real show.
[2:28]It was like a real, it's really produced.
[2:30]It's like a highly produced TV show on the internet.
[2:36]It's like very cool.
[2:37]It's just very cool.
[2:38]Thank you.
[2:39]Well, it was so much fun talking to.
[2:40]I mean, that had to have been over a year ago.
[2:43]Yeah.
[2:44]It was a long time ago.
[2:45]Yeah.
[2:46]That was fun.
[2:47]Okay.
[2:48]Can we talk about Once Upon a War Job first?
[2:49]Absolutely.
[2:50]Because I was like in love with this book.
[2:52]I was not even expecting to be as because I was like, okay, CS Lewis.
[2:57]Great.
[2:58]And I was like, stop what I'm doing.
[3:00]This is like such a good book.
[3:02]I am like so interested in his life.
[3:05]And the way that you made us like rooting for this little boy and his family and the mom with like heart of light filled.
[3:13]Oh my gosh.
[3:14]It's so it's really, really good.
[3:16]So anyway, why don't you tell everybody what it's about.
[3:21]Thank you.
[3:22]This book.
[3:23]And I just sat and listened to you talk about it because it fills me with so much happiness that this book, which got me through most of the lockdown,
[3:31]was my place to go when the world was madly burning around me.
[3:36]Right. So it's, it's March of 2020, almost exactly two years ago this week,
[3:41]because it'd be that we all went wait, what?
[3:44]You know, and my college age son came home and my graduate school age son came home and then my husband came home.
[3:54]And there we were right all in one house with one internet when I'm accustomed to, you know, working alone.
[4:01]And the world is madly going burning you going crazy around us.
[4:05]It's not hard to remember how it felt that March and April.
[4:10]And I'm sure this book would have been written at some point, but it definitely was the book where every single day I was able to go to England.
[4:20]And spent time with Jack and warny and this little boy George and his sister and the countryside of England and Oxford.
[4:29]And I could go there and not and almost find my centering in it.
[4:35]But what it's about is what you asked the, the, it came to me when I was writing becoming Mrs Lewis, which is a story about CS Lewis's very complicated and amazing genius wife.
[4:49]Joy David men.
[4:52]And when I was writing that book, I noticed all these little seeds of Lewis's life that I could see in the lie in the witch in the wardrobe.
[5:01]I am not an Arnea expert. I'm not an Arnea scholar.
[5:05]I could see these moments in his life and it just struck me that for all of us, including you, there are these moments in our life that, you know, you can point to and some people's work.
[5:18]You read so much city. I'm sure sometimes you meet someone and you're like, Oh, that part of your life is in it or.
[5:25]And even though we can point to that, there are these large swaths of story source that are completely ineffable, completely mysterious, completely unexplainable.
[5:37]I can't really answer the question, where did that story come from, no matter how many angles you come at it from. So I imagined a little boy who was ill and obsessed with the lie in the witch in the wardrobe in the year it came out of 1950.
[5:53]And he asked his sister who went to Oxford to track down the author who taught at Oxford and ask him where Narnia came from.
[6:03]answer and instead he told her stories from his life, which were amazing. I mean, so did you, did you know any of this, did you research was this all true, like is he really, was he really missing joints in his thumb.
[6:17]I meant to go.
[6:18]Yes, that was true. Yes, I'll true. All of that is true.
[6:22]I mean, I learned some of it when I was writing the book about joy, but when I started writing this book after I picked the seven events, I wanted to narrate not tell you what that I wanted to narrate through George's eyes.
[6:36]I picked those seven, then I did a really deep dive and found things like he was bad at sports because he was missing a digit in his thumbs, which sent him to sketching and writing and drawing.
[6:50]So these are the things that when we find out about these small moments and authors or persons life that changes the direction of their life. I just think it's fascinating.
[7:03]It's absolutely fascinating.
[7:05]I think that's the kind of how he and his brother really together made these whole world. What was it called next or something like that. I got a box in B.
[7:12]Box at the box. Yeah.
[7:14]How they had this whole other world and it was almost like this animal land meets like this fusion of their both of both of their imaginations as the precursor to what becomes Narnia and how it's just, it's just them like using their brains.
[7:32]This is mind blowing for kids today thinking of what goes on in my house right that this is what comes.
[7:38]And even just the notion of like, well, where where does it come from and even megs who's like, well, you can't there's no answer.
[7:46]And then of course, see us Lewis jackets just like, well, of course, you know, that's not true like it's very real, especially the part where you say where Meg says, you know, well, that's you know, I don't read it's for kids.
[7:58]He was like, no, no, no, no, like this is not a kid's back. What was your experience of reading the line the witch and the wardrobe originally like, did it always, did you have a special place in your heart for it or was it just great fodder for a novel like this.
[8:12]Oh, the line the witch and the wardrobe for me is probably one of the seminal books in my life probably foundational it's a book I found when I was very young and read over and over.
[8:26]And what's fascinating about that book as most books that are powerful is that they change with age right so reading it at nine years old and reading it at 50 years old.
[8:38]that two completely different things out of it. But when I was a child, I mean, I would walk around the forests of Cape Cod looking for a secret door, I believe that somewhere I was actually a queen.
[8:55]I could find a secret door and walk through it and what is so amazing about that book is not only the imagination that it came from, meaning the authors imagination, but the imagination it spurs in in us when you read it because it's one of the few books in the world that even if you've never read it, you know what it's about.
[9:22]So you might meet somebody and say the line the witch and the wardrobe and they'll say, you know, I've never read it, but they know who aslan is they know who the white witches they know who tumbness is they it's become part of our almost consciousness this story.
[9:37]And for me, as a child, it it unlocked my imagination and so many ways wow that's amazing I read it, but I, and I read the whole, you know, everything that came next and I loved it, but I it wasn't one of those books for me that changed my life, I don't know why.
[9:57]you read them and you wanted to know what happened right.
[10:00]Oh, totally, I loved it.
[10:01]Yes, yes, yes, but I don't know.
[10:04]And you probably once in a while think about it,
[10:06]like something in the world comes up
[10:10]and it reminds you of Narnia.
[10:12]And that's what's so crazy about the power of that.
[10:15]And it's the same with people who love Lord of the Rings
[10:18]or any of those world building things
[10:21]that you'll see a lamp post in a snowy forest
[10:26]and you'll think, Narnia, like how many books do that?
[10:29]Hardly any, it's so true, it's so true.
[10:32]You have this funny line in the beginning,
[10:34]well, not really, whatever.
[10:35]Let's see, this is when Jack is explaining it,
[10:37]but maybe Narnia had its first seeds in the land
[10:39]that my brother and I imagined
[10:40]is children in our attic, we called it Boxen.
[10:42]What do you think, Wornie?
[10:43]It's quite possible replies as brother,
[10:45]but there was no real magic in those stories.
[10:47]Maybe the magic came later in Narnia.
[10:49]And then Jack says, perhaps I was trading myself
[10:52]to be a novelist.
[10:54]It's true.
[10:55]And I love looking back and I bet you do too.
[10:58]I mean, have you ever looked back at what you think
[11:01]are the stepping stones that you didn't know at the time,
[11:05]but the stepping stones to doing what you're doing now?
[11:08]I actually just wrote a whole book about that.
[11:10]That's what point.
[11:11]That is my point, D.
[11:13]Yes, exactly.
[11:14]I knew that.
[11:16]And it is fascinating because we can look back at those steps
[11:20]and say, they were all leading to right here.
[11:25]And your memoir is, I can't wait to read it
[11:29]to hear what those are.
[11:30]But sometimes we don't stop and look backwards to see that.
[11:34]And sometimes when we do, it's astounding.
[11:37]Maybe I was training myself to be a novelist, right?
[11:42]Somebody said, what advice would I give at one point?
[11:44]And I was like, someday it will all make sense.
[11:48]Yes.
[11:49]You know, it doesn't make sense at all.
[11:51]And I'm like, this is going nowhere.
[11:52]There is no way all these different threads
[11:54]are ever going to link up into this beautiful French rape.
[11:57]Like, no, it's just to going to be a mess.
[12:00]But you don't know, you don't know.
[12:01]It all, your brain keeps all these things.
[12:04]It sounds so obvious.
[12:05]No, it's a spider web.
[12:07]But I think, too, what goes into that
[12:10]is we can get so caught up.
[12:12]Now we're having a psychology moment
[12:13]instead of talking about books.
[12:14]But we can get so caught up in this idea
[12:17]that we have to know what we're doing all the time.
[12:20]Right?
[12:21]But this thing I'm spending my time on right now
[12:23]needs to like have purpose and make sense.
[12:27]And sometimes if we just follow our curiosity
[12:30]and do the next thing and then the next thing,
[12:33]that's what happens.
[12:35]And when I was writing that book and I was looking at his life,
[12:38]there were probably huge swaths of time
[12:41]where he felt, well, I know there were.
[12:44]When he felt lost and wounded and losing
[12:47]your mom at nine years old, going to a horrible boarding
[12:51]school or being beaten or like, and then you look back
[12:57]and like what you just said, and then it all makes sense.
[13:01]And to be able to take those ordinary moments in your life,
[13:06]which he did, and then through the alchemy of story,
[13:10]transform them into something extraordinary
[13:13]is the gift of looking back and paying attention, I think.
[13:19]The way you wrote about the mom's illness
[13:21]and like being on the table, don't say, oh my gosh, heartbreaking.
[13:24]It's so painful.
[13:25]I know, painful.
[13:27]Okay, also I want you to talk about surviving Savannah,
[13:30]which is now in paperback and graduations.
[13:33]Very exciting.
[13:34]Thank you.
[13:34]So tell me more about that book, because I have to admit,
[13:36]I have not read that book, but I did love once upon a wardrobe.
[13:39]Oh, I did not give you time to read surviving Savannah.
[13:42]Surviving Savannah is the true and lost-to-time tale
[13:48]of a shipwreck that happened in 1838.
[13:52]And I found out about it about eight or nine years ago
[13:56]when a pal of mine in Bluffton, South Carolina said,
[14:00]this feels like your kind of story.
[14:02]It is all only four women survived.
[14:06]And it's this fascinating tale that literally lost a time.
[14:11]And I said, now, I'm not interested, I'm not interested.
[14:15]And then about five years later,
[14:18]I said, I'm just going to look it up,
[14:19]because it is starting to sound interesting.
[14:21]And by then, I was writing historical fiction.
[14:24]So I plugged it into the computer,
[14:26]looking up this ship after doing some reading,
[14:29]and a headline popped up that said,
[14:32]SS Pulaski, which is the name of the ship,
[14:35]discovered just discovered 30 miles off the coast
[14:40]of North Carolina, 100 feet deep.
[14:44]And it hit me that there was a reason,
[14:47]there was a timing for why I wasn't interested in it before,
[14:51]because now they have found it.
[14:53]And while I'm digging up stories about this lost ship,
[14:58]somebody else is quite literally digging up the treasure
[15:01]from this lost ship.
[15:03]So this company was a treasure hunting shipwreck company.
[15:08]And they were bringing up the gold and the silver
[15:10]and the jewelry and these fast and mating artifacts
[15:15]from 1838.
[15:16]While I'm over here digging up stories about the passengers.
[15:20]So I discovered a family who boarded the ship together,
[15:24]a mother, a father, six children, and niece,
[15:28]yeah, nine of them.
[15:30]And they boarded the ship together,
[15:32]and the father was a financier for the ship.
[15:35]And he took this whole, his whole entire family
[15:38]and it blew up off the coast of North Carolina.
[15:41]And so I knew I had my people
[15:43]and now I had this treasure hunter.
[15:46]So it is a dual timeline story about a museum curator
[15:50]who's working on bringing up the exhibit.
[15:53]And then we meet two women.
[15:56]I feel like most shipwreck stories are told
[15:58]from the men's point of view.
[15:59]It happened in the first mate.
[16:01]And we meet two very real women from history.
[16:04]I changed their names,
[16:05]but we see them on the ship.
[16:07]Because captains are thinking about something different
[16:10]than a woman who has six children on the ship.
[16:15]How can I find men and women
[16:16]where housed separately on steamships in 1838?
[16:20]So we follow these women,
[16:22]some floating five days and five nights at sea,
[16:26]while also learning about what they're discovering
[16:28]at the bottom of the ocean.
[16:31]Amazing.
[16:32]Well, that sounds great.
[16:33]All your books are like movies.
[16:35]They all sound like movies.
[16:36]They all have the cinematic feel
[16:40]even the way you talk about them,
[16:41]which by the way, I feel like I could listen to all day.
[16:43]Are these going to be movies?
[16:45]I'm always so interested, are they?
[16:47]Oh, I mean, you know, they always tease and call,
[16:50]but nothing's happening.
[16:51]If you have someone you want to give a ring to,
[16:53]just feel free.
[16:55]This feels to me.
[16:55]It feels to me like, how Tom Hanks did that remake
[16:58]of what was the one with the train,
[17:01]you know, the train and the boy.
[17:04]Oh, oh, the polar express.
[17:06]Yes, thank you.
[17:06]That one.
[17:08]Well, especially once upon a wardrobe,
[17:10]and I think is it be when I write,
[17:12]I don't, when you were writing your newest,
[17:15]you know, your memoir,
[17:16]is that what you're calling it a memoir, right?
[17:18]Yeah.
[17:19]I mean, do you see things visually or do you fit right?
[17:23]So people ask, you know, often like where your ideas come from
[17:28]and sometimes there are questions
[17:30]but so often they're visual.
[17:33]And so when I'm writing, I'm so hopefully
[17:36]when I'm describing it, you know, it feels visual too.
[17:40]But I think, you know, stories and images and scenes
[17:43]come to people in different ways.
[17:44]Some people it's literally, you know, with words or,
[17:48]or, but for me, it is very visual.
[17:51]Yeah.
[17:52]I see it in scenes, right?
[17:53]Like it like plays.
[17:55]Yes.
[17:55]I'm my best to transcribe or something.
[17:58]Transcribing.
[17:58]Yes.
[17:59]And it's so hard because it never, ever matches.
[18:05]Like you can remember that scene from your life, I'm sure,
[18:08]and you write it down and you're like,
[18:10]I didn't all the way capture it, right?
[18:13]And I do that with scenes in my novel.
[18:14]Like they're on this floating piece of wood
[18:18]and they've gone three days without food and water
[18:22]and you're having to find this courage and strength
[18:26]and perseverance really deep down
[18:29]that you're not sure that you have.
[18:32]And I read it and I'm like, but I saw it so much better
[18:35]than that.
[18:37]So we do the best we can.
[18:40]We do the best we can.
[18:42]And what are you working on now?
[18:44]I have a book that's coming out next June.
[18:48]It is right now called The River Child.
[18:51]I have a feeling the title will change.
[18:53]Okay.
[18:54]I'm really excited about it.
[18:57]Once again, it came to me in an image.
[19:00]And I think what happens to me often too
[19:03]is when I'm researching one book,
[19:05]another idea starts to bubble on the back burner
[19:08]in the back of my mind.
[19:10]And I don't even realize it until,
[19:13]so they all seem to be out gross of the book before in some way.
[19:18]But when I was writing once upon a wardrobe,
[19:21]one of the seven events in that book, as you know,
[19:24]is when children were sent away to the country
[19:27]to live with other people and leave London
[19:31]or Lancaster or any of the large cities
[19:34]or they could be safe.
[19:36]And it has the strangest name.
[19:38]It was called Operation Pied Piper.
[19:41]And if you know anything about the Pied Piper legend,
[19:46]it is about a Piper who plays a flute
[19:49]and leads the children out of a town to drown.
[19:54]They all die.
[19:55]Everybody in the legend dies except a child.
[20:00]who was blind and doesn't follow him.
[20:02]So, and it's a legend in lore that's based on myth,
[20:07]out of Germany, but also based on like,
[20:10]it has all kind of moral code in it as most of those do.
[20:16]But I became fascinated with why would they name
[20:22]an operation, or they would call it a scheme in England
[20:27]to save children from bombs and name it the pie piper.
[20:32]Like it just, so that got my wheels turning.
[20:34]And I imagine, and this is what it's about,
[20:37]two little girls named Hazel and Flora,
[20:40]who are sisters and the older sister.
[20:43]I'm still learning to talk about this book
[20:45]because it's brand names.
[20:46]Okay, that's okay.
[20:47]All right, the older sister Hazel keeps the younger sister
[20:50]who's five Flora safe and comforted
[20:54]with a fairy tale she makes up.
[20:57]So she makes up a fairy tale land
[20:59]that only the two of them know about.
[21:03]So when things are rough,
[21:04]when they're missing their family,
[21:06]they go to this secret land called Whisperwood
[21:09]and the River of Stars.
[21:12]And a year goes by the living with a lovely family.
[21:15]Some children didn't get lovely families.
[21:17]They were living in a small town outside of Oxford,
[21:19]England called Binsie, which has its own legend and lore.
[21:24]And during the blitz, the little sister disappears.
[21:28]It is assumed she drowned in the river.
[21:30]And then we flash to 20 years later.
[21:33]And the older sister is working in an antiquarian book shop
[21:38]in London and a book crosses her path in the back room.
[21:43]And it is a first signed edition
[21:45]with original illustrations of a fairy tale
[21:49]by an American author called Whisperwood
[21:52]and the River of Stars.
[21:53]Wow.
[21:55]Well, you've definitely picked my interest.
[21:56]So it's about how story can save us.
[22:01]And so this fairy tale helps to solve a mystery
[22:05]that's 20 years old.
[22:07]But so Patty, what part of your life has been saved by writing?
[22:12]That's a great question, City.
[22:13]I love that so many parts of my life.
[22:16]But I would say that the first one was when I was really young.
[22:22]And I was 12, and I grew up outside of Philadelphia.
[22:26]And my family moved to South Florida when I was 12.
[22:30]And it was awful.
[22:33]And I went to three different schools and three different years.
[22:36]And while they were figuring out where to live,
[22:39]and my dad was a pastor.
[22:40]So where they were going to put the church.
[22:42]And it was terrible, it was terrible.
[22:43]It was, I'm not even going to sugarcoat it.
[22:46]It was terrible.
[22:47]I loved outside Philadelphia.
[22:48]I lived in Ardmore and Narberg than I had my friends
[22:51]in my life.
[22:52]And this is in the mid to late 70s.
[22:55]So we're not calling each other.
[22:56]We're not, you know, snapchatting.
[22:59]And I would hide in the libraries.
[23:02]And libraries were my sanctuaries.
[23:04]And in books, everything made sense.
[23:08]And what we were just talking about earlier
[23:11]is someday it will all make sense.
[23:14]When I was 12, 13, 14, and hiding in the library,
[23:19]I believed that.
[23:20]I believed that someday it would all make sense.
[23:23]But the only reason I believed that
[23:26]was because I was reading books.
[23:29]I love them.
[23:30]So how did you get through the rest of the high school
[23:33]experience?
[23:33]Did you find your people or what happened?
[23:36]I did eventually.
[23:37]So when I was in 9th grade, I mean, 10th grade, my parents said,
[23:40]we're going to stay in Coral Springs.
[23:42]And you'll go to the same school to graduate.
[23:45]So Zibi, I decided I would be popular and make friends.
[23:49]And I joined the Latin club.
[23:52]Not how you get popular.
[23:54]That is not the club.
[23:55]I'm like, was she a cheerleader?
[23:57]What did she have Latin?
[23:59]Latin.
[24:00]And I loved it.
[24:00]And like we were just talking about earlier,
[24:02]it was a stepping stone to be coming a novelist
[24:05]because I became obsessed with the,
[24:09]no, I was a nurse before I was a novelist.
[24:11]So I thought I was taking Latin for medical reasons,
[24:16]like so that I could understand medical language
[24:19]and carry that forward with me, which I did.
[24:23]And it was that, but it also helped me become obsessed
[24:26]with the origin of words, the origin of stories,
[24:29]with mythology.
[24:30]And little did I know I was training myself
[24:33]to be a novelist.
[24:35]Well, now the more medical parts of the story
[24:38]make sense a little more in the hospital.
[24:41]Yeah.
[24:42]And when George's lips are blue and when he's like,
[24:46]even how he is when he's born and not really robust enough
[24:51]and all of that, now I get where you're coming from too.
[24:54]And people ask me, a lot have you written about being a nurse?
[25:00]And I said, I never have and I probably never will.
[25:02]You know, we never say never.
[25:04]But I do know that almost every book
[25:08]I've used something from that time,
[25:11]whether it's a scene in the hospital
[25:13]or a family falling apart or a family at crossroads
[25:16]because that was in pediatrics.
[25:18]That was a pediatric nurse.
[25:20]So even if I don't write directly about it, it shows up.
[25:25]Well, again, the mishmash of our brains and what
[25:29]ends up coming out of this funnel.
[25:31]Yeah, just quickly I knew it was out of time.
[25:33]But why did you leave nursing and when did that happen?
[25:39]I left nursing when my kids were six, four, and one.
[25:45]And I was playing dollhouse with my daughter one day.
[25:49]And I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up.
[25:53]She was six.
[25:55]And she looked me right in the eyes and she said,
[25:58]I want to be a writer of books.
[26:03]And I said, no, that's what I want to be when I grow up.
[26:08]And she said, you're already grown up.
[26:12]And I signed up for a writing class at Emory the next day.
[26:16]Wow.
[26:17]That's so cool.
[26:18]Is she now a writer of books?
[26:20]Not of books, but she is writing blogs and things like that.
[26:24]And I think she will.
[26:26]Right now, she has a three-year-old and a five-month-old.
[26:28]So she's not doing much aside from survival.
[26:31]But and she's a beautiful writer.
[26:34]She has a huge following on Instagram, Megan Moon.
[26:38]She's a beautiful writer.
[26:39]But she hasn't sat.
[26:41]I didn't sit down to write my first book until I was 35.
[26:44]So you never know when same with you.
[26:47]It's like we've changed.
[26:49]Yeah.
[26:49]Right.
[26:50]It should have been obvious all along.
[26:52]But when it happens, it feels like a sharp left turn.
[26:56]But that's not what it is.
[26:59]I love that.
[27:00]It's where you were meant to go, hello.
[27:02]Exactly.
[27:03]Now it all makes sense.
[27:06]Amazing.
[27:07]Well, Patty, thank you so much.
[27:09]Thanks for coming on.
[27:09]Thanks for sharing your story and your stories with me.
[27:13]And thanks again for letting me reschedule.
[27:16]Bye.
[27:17]So thank you.
[27:18]No, thank you, Zebay.
[27:19]This was blessed.
[27:20]OK.
[27:20]All right.
[27:21]We'll have a good day.
[27:22]Thank you.
[27:22]Tell me the release date of the book.
[27:24]My book?
[27:25]July 1st.
[27:26]It's called Bookends, and I'm where
[27:28]I've lost in literature.
[27:30]Now I've seen the cover everywhere.
[27:31]I feel like you should have called it.
[27:33]It will all make sense.
[27:36]That's your next one.
[27:37]I'm going to send you guys cup.
[27:37]I don't have enough arcs.
[27:39]I want to send them to everybody for so I'm talking to now.
[27:42]I'm just like, anyway, I'm going to give you guys a copy.
[27:45]I'll send one.
[27:45]Well, or just send shoot Netflix thing.
[27:47]Netflix, holy moly.
[27:49]Neck alley.
[27:50]Yes.
[27:51]Read this too.
[27:52]Whatever you want.
[27:53]I'm going to get it.
[27:53]Of course, we'll shout it out everywhere.
[27:55]All right.
[27:56]Take care, Zebay.
[27:56]Don't take COVID.
[27:57]Do not get COVID.
[27:59]OK.
[27:59]Bye.
[28:00]Bye.
[28:02]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[28:04]Don't have time to read books.
[28:05]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebay Owens
[28:08]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[28:10]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zebay Owens.com
[28:13]and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:15]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:17]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[28:19]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[28:21]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:23]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.