Lian Dolan, LOST AND FOUND IN PARIS: A Novel
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[0:58]Leanne Dolan is the author of Lost and Found in Paris, a novel
[1:02]She is a writer and broadcaster and creator and host of satellite sisters the award-winning and top-rated talk show podcast
[1:08]She produces with her four real sisters
[1:11]Leanne is also the author of the Sweeney Sisters
[1:13]Helen of Pasadena and Elizabeth the first wife
[1:16]She's a regular columnist for Pasadena magazine and graduated from Pomona College in Claremont, California
[1:22]And now lives in Pasadena with her husband and two cents
[1:25]Welcome, Leanne. Thank you so much for coming on mom's new time to read books
[1:29]It's coming back because you are on I interviewed you for the Sweeney sisters for Lost and Found in Paris
[1:34]Congratulations. Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be back
[1:37]I mean you've been so busy the last two years. I just have been sitting in my office
[1:42]Writing another book, but you've been building an empire. So congratulations to you too. I mean, I've been sitting in my office too
[1:50]Just different emails
[1:54]And by the way, you're completely selling yourself short. You have like all this stuff podcast books, you know, you're like, you know
[2:02]Amazing, so well, thank you, but you know, it's just it's fun to be here
[2:06]I'm glad to be on can you tell listeners about your latest novel?
[2:10]What's it about and what inspired you to read it? Sure
[2:13]I mean, I described Lost and Found in Paris as an art history treasure hunt
[2:17]So I don't I don't want to say it's a mystery because I feel like I'm not a mystery writer
[2:21]And I'm not sure I could live up to that genre. That's a lot of responsibility
[2:25]But it's an art history treasure hunt and it's set in Paris the main character is Joan Blakely
[2:31]She is in her early 30s
[2:33]She is the daughter of a famous artist who's gone now
[2:37]Her father's died and her mother was a model in the 70s
[2:40]So she is the average daughter of two sort of above average famous people and she's had kind of a rough 10 years
[2:48]She lost her dad in 911 and she has really taken about a about a decade to actually recover from the loss and the grief
[2:57]But in that time, she made a lot of decisions
[2:59]She probably wouldn't have made if she hadn't lost her dad. She married the wrong guy
[3:03]She's in kind of a job. She doesn't love
[3:06]She's sort of taken on a lot of the responsibility of saving his legacy and creating
[3:12]You know the the narrative for his the rest of his work and his life
[3:17]And so she's put herself on the back burner
[3:19]But her husband comes to wear drops of bombshell and Joan realizes I have to I have to switch things up
[3:25]So she has an opportunity for work
[3:28]She works at a museum here in Pasadena to take a piece of artwork to Paris that the museum is selling off
[3:34]And so she she takes this piece of artwork to Paris as the courier and it goes missing
[3:40]And that's when the clues start coming and the treasure hunt starts
[3:44]Amazing. Can we discuss the scene where the husband comes to the office and what he says to her or is that a secret?
[3:51]No, I mean, I think it's it's you know, what's interesting Zibi. It happened to her friend of mine. No, did it really?
[4:00]Yes, where she yeah, so in in in the scene where Joan she finds out that her husband has father twins with another woman
[4:09]Five years ago like but but not not just father to the kids like he's a part of their lives and would make up stories of where he was going
[4:18]But he wasn't off on work trips. He was like raising these other kids
[4:22]Yeah, yeah, he was
[4:25]In a blase way comes into her office as if he was saying like you know
[4:29]I have to rearrange the trip for somebody
[4:32]That he liked right he just her light. I mean, it's you know, he's like it's just crazy
[4:36]He just like waltzes in and out like what hey, by the way, did I mention I have two other kids
[4:42]So yeah, and that's I you know
[4:45]It was one of those things that happened to a woman
[4:47]I know and she found out like oh my
[4:51]My husband has two other children that are the same age as my child which was also creepy and you know
[4:56]I think lives are complicated and messy and but that seemed like such a giant bombshell
[5:01]So I feel I felt like I'll have to use that at some point and 20 years later. I used it, you know
[5:09]I've been thinking about it for 20 years. I was like I'm gonna put this in this book
[5:12]So but I wanted it to be a big enough bombshell where she's like all right. Yeah, I really have to rethink the path
[5:19]I'm on
[5:19]Totally and the part with her dad too that he was on the plane and
[5:23]Um, I mean, she had just been with him working all summer
[5:26]I don't know that that makes it worse. It's not like anything makes it worse
[5:29]But somehow it just feels just the grief feels that much more intense like that they had
[5:35]They had just been working together and the next thing you know
[5:37]He takes a different plane and he
[5:39]And he passes away and even the way that her mother handles it too
[5:43]I mean that she basically doesn't move right like you say something like
[5:48]She just basically stays in one place the rest of her life like she can't get over it for a long long time and
[5:54]And it becomes an up to her right as often be falls the child right?
[5:58]She has to do everything for her family and and especially for such a high profile person
[6:04]Right, you don't think necessarily about that and what that would entail in the
[6:09]Anyway, that's a lot on her plate at the same time. It's all I'm trying to say that's a lot
[6:12]It is well
[6:13]You know it was inspired again by another sort of real snippet of news that I saw in the days after
[6:20]9-11, you know when people got their news from newspapers, right?
[6:23]We we were on Twitter
[6:25]I think just harken back to 2001 and I know that you lost a dear friend in 9-11
[6:30]So you were probably watching as closely
[6:32]More closely than anybody but you know
[6:34]We thought people were still going to be found in the buildings and the names of who had died was not was not known
[6:42]But the people on the plane they knew they were not coming back like that was obvious and so here in Los Angeles
[6:48]We actually lost a
[6:50]couple of TV producers
[6:52]And they were Emmy award-winning TV producers
[6:55]But I remember very distinctly that their obituaries were on the front page of the year of the Los Angeles Times
[7:01]And in a giant national tragedy where everyone was sort of anonymous
[7:06]This idea that if you were slightly famous
[7:08]Or had a couple of Emmys and that would land you on the front page of the LA Times
[7:13]That sort of stuck with me like
[7:15]That is both the burden and the blessing of fame to be known
[7:18]The Los Angeles is a company town and the company is entertainment
[7:21]But it just seemed like a weird thing to have to weather that you
[7:26]You were the face of this national tragedy
[7:28]But it was also such a tremendous personal loss and like trying to balance those two things out
[7:33]So I tried to use that with Joan that her father was the one that was on the front page
[7:37]At the LA Times and she represented the family at all these ceremonies and flagrazings and things like that
[7:44]And memorials until she just couldn't and then she had to sort of start her own private journey of grief after the public facing grief
[7:50]So I was trying to get to that which sounds super serious
[7:53]I mean
[7:54]Because the book is sort of a Paris romp
[7:57]But I did want it to have an under you know the journey includes grief and loss
[8:01]As a lot of journeys too, especially these days. Yes, right. Well, that was the interesting thing Zibi
[8:06]I started this book nine years ago
[8:08]And it's just being published now and I started it right after my parents had both thought
[8:13]And I lost both my parents in rapid succession like within eight weeks
[8:17]I lost my mom to cancer and my dad to Alzheimer's right
[8:21]But then I was I know you know what and but there was nothing tragic about there
[8:25]I know but still thought I know it's still sad though. It's a really sad
[8:29]So but I was like I had a new book coming out Elizabeth the first wife
[8:33]And I was on a book tour and I just like plunged right into the book tour and then in the fall
[8:37]I was started writing this this book
[8:39]Which at the time was called Joan of Art and I was like I'm just gonna do it
[8:43]I'm gonna do it and then
[8:45]About a year after my dad died right on his birthday
[8:48]I just hit a grief wall like I was like what am I doing like I can't write a book about the journey of grief when I haven't taken it yet
[8:56]So I put the book aside for a couple of years and then I revised it and then life got in the way
[9:01]And I kids to get to college and I wrote another book and then I sold it in 2018
[9:07]But then I wrote the Sweeney sisters to come out first
[9:10]So when I was revising it, it was the summer of 2021 and here we are
[9:15]Like again in this sort of national grieving process. So it was a it was a pretty interesting journey
[9:21]I'd really like I knew I had been through my personal
[9:25]Stuff, but everybody was feeling it again. So it was a little bit different
[9:28]I mean, I guess in some ways I'm glad it took this long to come to fruition because I got a chance to go through it again
[9:35]Kind of with that in my mind's eye. Well, sometimes these books have a life of their own
[9:40]Sometimes I feel like I get it like you have for better worse
[9:43]Like I really wanted to have a kid in this year
[9:45]But then I didn't you know, I mean like I really wanted to become to come out like then but for it didn't
[9:50]I'm like why right and you know, right. I love some luckily sometimes
[9:54]They do happen, but I don't know there's like this alternate universe that decides when these things
[10:00]or it's just bad luck or rejection or out of even know what.
[10:05]But it's true.
[10:05]Well, I feel like I'm a better writer,
[10:07]so I was cool with it.
[10:08]You know, I've now read so much.
[10:09]And I was like, oh, I'd like to take another whack
[10:12]at this book.
[10:13]And so that's exactly what I did last summer.
[10:16]It was like, especially to the final third,
[10:18]like really rewrite that in a completely different way
[10:21]with a completely fresh perspective.
[10:23]Interesting.
[10:24]And I saw in the back you thanked all the people
[10:25]for like sticking along your Paris journey.
[10:28]So it sounds like it was a taking
[10:30]a village type of endeavor.
[10:32]It was.
[10:33]For many years, it was like, how's that Paris book?
[10:35]Yes, the Paris book.
[10:36]I was like, it's going great.
[10:37]Even if I hadn't picked it up for two years.
[10:40]So I was grateful for everyone who did stick with me.
[10:43]Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
[10:45]Did you have another book now that you're working on already?
[10:48]Are you going to take a little time to enjoy?
[10:50]No, I am.
[10:51]I mean, it's a good problem to have.
[10:53]I signed another two-book deal with William Morrow.
[10:56]So it's the first time for me that I've been promoting one book
[11:01]and but then on deadline for another book.
[11:03]So I have to turn in another one by the end of June.
[11:06]And this one, I have to say,
[11:09]I have been using your podcast sex talk a lot for me.
[11:12]Have you really?
[11:13]Yeah.
[11:14]Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
[11:16]Oh, yeah.
[11:17]I mean, just doing some research over there.
[11:20]I love, I love the way you position yourself
[11:23]in that podcast.
[11:23]It's fantastic.
[11:24]Like we're not talking about me.
[11:27]She does not, she does not give up.
[11:29]She does not track.
[11:30]The other day she was, it was something so minor.
[11:32]I was like, you're just trying to get me to see something.
[11:35]I mean, stop.
[11:38]So my new book is about, it's about a long term marriage.
[11:41]So it's about Gen Xers who've been married for like 23 years.
[11:45]The husband has a, has a works about it coming up
[11:48]and the way it flossed her job.
[11:49]So she's able to go and she realizes at the last minute
[11:54]that she does not want to go on the husband's sabbatical.
[11:57]Like that, it's just sort of this adventure trip
[11:59]to Patagonia and Nicaragua.
[12:01]And that is like the last thing she wants to do.
[12:03]So, so they end up taking separate sabbaticals.
[12:07]So from each other, from their marriage
[12:10]and from their marriage vows, they just decide a year off.
[12:16]See in 12 months.
[12:17]So it's called the marriage sabbatical.
[12:20]So it's a little bit of a departure for me.
[12:22]So I'm learning a lot from you and Tracy.
[12:23]I'm just seeing, yeah, just testing the waters over there.
[12:29]But it's been fun to write.
[12:31]I mean, I wanted to write about marriage for a long time
[12:33]because I think it's, it fascinates me.
[12:35]I've been married 29 years.
[12:38]I think the longer you're married,
[12:40]the more expansive your definition of marriage may get,
[12:44]people have complicated lives
[12:46]and people have arrangements
[12:48]and people say things and you're like, really?
[12:51]That's happening in your neck of the woods.
[12:53]So I don't know.
[12:54]I thought there was material there.
[12:56]I want to be friends with your friends.
[12:58]Instead of like all the people telling you the things,
[13:00]I'm like the most incredible stories.
[13:02]Like, well, I don't know what dinner parties you're at,
[13:03]but I feel like I want to go.
[13:05]You know, it's Los Angeles.
[13:07]You know, essentially there's just a lot of open books here.
[13:11]So a lot of open books.
[13:13]Whereas my husband and I just for the record
[13:15]were asleep on the couch watching British murder mysteries
[13:18]by 8.30 PM.
[13:19]We do not leave those lots.
[13:20]So this is not, this is not about us.
[13:23]I would sooner wear Patagonia than go to Patagonia.
[13:25]That's how I would describe myself.
[13:28]Okay.
[13:29]I, now I'm writing that down because I put it.
[13:32]Okay.
[13:33]Okay. Go ahead.
[13:34]Okay. Now I can be one of your fun friends.
[13:35]That's awesome.
[13:36]Tell listeners more about your podcast.
[13:39]Sure. I do a show called satellite sisters
[13:41]and we've been doing it for 20 years.
[13:44]It started on the radio and I do it.
[13:46]We started with my four real life sisters
[13:48]who lived all over the place.
[13:49]And our idea was just to have an hour on the radio
[13:52]that sounded like friends sound
[13:54]when they talk to each other.
[13:55]That they talk about their lives
[13:57]and they talk about the news of the day
[13:59]and a great book they read
[14:00]and what they're doing next week.
[14:02]And you know, they love each other,
[14:04]but they don't agree on everything
[14:06]and they don't have the same lives.
[14:08]Some are married, some are divorced
[14:10]and they're interested in other women in particular.
[14:12]You know, in terms of what they're doing
[14:14]with their work and their lives and their career.
[14:16]So that satellite sisters
[14:18]and we were we were on the radio for 10 years
[14:21]and we've been a podcast since 2009.
[14:23]So we still produced.
[14:25]I literally just got off with them.
[14:26]I was like, hurry up.
[14:27]I gotta get on with the video.
[14:29]I'm like, I'm like, okay.
[14:33]I'm like, cause I'm the producers.
[14:34]I'm like texting my sisters.
[14:35]I could've just beat up this last segment.
[14:37]I gotta, I gotta do it in five minutes.
[14:39]But we do it once we quickly show
[14:41]where we're still connecting.
[14:42]It's three of us now.
[14:43]My sister Liz and my sister Julie
[14:45]and Julie lives in Texas and Liz lives in Santa Monica.
[14:49]And you know, it's still the same format
[14:51]because it's just, you know,
[14:53]conversations that women have
[14:55]that may not make the front page of the paper
[14:57]or may not be deemed as, you know, important.
[14:59]But it's the decisions we make
[15:02]that help us get through our lives every day.
[15:04]I mean, I don't think the paper's helping that.
[15:06]I mean, why should I say anything?
[15:07]I think that the advice people get
[15:11]from the people in there,
[15:12]okay, you know, I'm gonna just not say anything.
[15:15]Okay, moving on.
[15:18]I think the notion is that like women's lives
[15:20]are not hefty enough.
[15:22]You know, they're not waiting enough
[15:24]to be important issues.
[15:25]And that's nonsense because it's raising children.
[15:29]It's education, it's health and welfare.
[15:31]Like it's all these really, really important thing
[15:33]that women are holding down the fort on every day.
[15:36]But you know, a news program wouldn't frame it as such.
[15:39]It would just, so,
[15:41]but women are like dealing with the heavy stuff
[15:43]all day long.
[15:44]Very true. Yes. Amazing.
[15:47]But just curious, going from radio to podcasting,
[15:50]did you have to change anything?
[15:52]Or was it like at the exact same show?
[15:53]Like, is there anything that, like you miss about radio
[15:57]or have, I don't mean, I miss this, I miss this stuff.
[16:02]Yeah.
[16:03]And the money.
[16:07]I miss the stuff and the money, Sibi.
[16:08]Those are the two big things.
[16:10]Exactly.
[16:12]You know, that is a part of it.
[16:14]I mean, when we started podcasting in 2009,
[16:17]it was really just the leap of faith.
[16:19]But we felt like, you know, we loved doing our show.
[16:22]And we didn't go off the air
[16:23]because we had no listeners.
[16:24]We were an award winning money making show for ABC radio
[16:29]and Disney sold off the radio division.
[16:31]So I literally took my iMac into the,
[16:35]and I'm pointing to it, my into the Apple store
[16:38]and asked the little 12 year old genius
[16:40]to show me how to record a podcast in GarageBand.
[16:44]Because I was like, I think I want to do a podcast.
[16:47]And he was like, sure, lady.
[16:49]And that's how we started doing it.
[16:50]Just in our closets in GarageBand,
[16:52]but we really felt compelled like,
[16:54]we are not done talking.
[16:56]We had an audience and the conversations
[16:58]we were having mattered to this particular audience.
[17:01]And there are no gatekeepers over in podcasting.
[17:04]So we'll go over there and we'll figure it out.
[17:07]The show is, you know, when we were on ABC,
[17:09]we were on six days a week live three hours a day.
[17:13]Oh my gosh.
[17:15]What do you even have to say for that many hours a week?
[17:18]Jeez.
[17:18]Honestly, honestly, Zibi on Fridays,
[17:21]we drive to the studio and I'm like,
[17:23]well, there's a billboard.
[17:23]I feel like I can do 12 minutes on that.
[17:25]I mean, I just, we would say anything.
[17:29]But we had a lot of guests too.
[17:30]We had a guest every hour mainly,
[17:32]which was fun, but a lot of crap and stuff.
[17:35]So we have a lot less guests.
[17:36]We keep it simple, the production.
[17:39]But the sound of the show has not changed.
[17:42]We were pretty confident in that it was a good format.
[17:46]And so we've kept it, we've kept it the same.
[17:49]So in that sense, I mean, we're all older and wiser
[17:53]and our lives are different.
[17:54]And you know, as a country we've been through a lot,
[17:57]we definitely felt like in the spring of 2020,
[18:01]we sensed people needed connection.
[18:05]They needed anything positive to hang on to.
[18:09]They needed friendship and sisterhood
[18:12]and so we did kind of shift some of our topics
[18:15]to do less news stuff and to just accommodate
[18:19]more emotional health and wellness.
[18:22]And we really made a concerted effort
[18:25]to have a positive, put a positive face forward
[18:28]for the shows in 2020 and 2021.
[18:31]We did extra shows those years
[18:33]because we had just felt like people really needed
[18:37]to stay connected.
[18:38]You know, there was a lot of isolation
[18:40]and we were this little, you know,
[18:42]we were this community that people could connect to.
[18:44]So that changed that change a little bit.
[18:47]For the better, I think it was a positive change for us.
[18:50]How do you foster your community of listeners offline or do you?
[18:56]No, we do.
[18:57]You know, when we started satellite sisters in 1999,
[19:02]you know, we had a website and that was pretty cutting edge
[19:05]at the time.
[19:06]I like not too many videos shows how to website in a logo.
[19:09]And like we had a lot of emails, you know,
[19:12]we would respond to emails and everything.
[19:14]And so when social media came about,
[19:16]when it was a nice and decent place to be,
[19:18]you know, we started a Facebook group right away
[19:21]and we have a private Facebook group.
[19:23]And I have to say, I feel like it's the nicest corner
[19:26]of the internet.
[19:27]But I think it goes back to the behavior we have on the show.
[19:31]We sort of model the behavior we want online.
[19:34]Like we don't yell in screen.
[19:35]We're not throwing drinks at people's faces.
[19:37]We don't trash other women.
[19:38]We don't, you know, trash people.
[19:40]We try to keep the conversation, you know, big enough
[19:44]so that people feel included,
[19:46]but also personal enough.
[19:47]And so we see that in our Facebook group.
[19:49]I mean, we have thousands of people over there,
[19:51]but they get it.
[19:53]So did they sort of buy in to the, you know,
[19:56]to the behavior that we have?
[19:58]So we.
[20:00]Yeah, the Facebook group is our most potent place,
[20:03]but now we've, I started a newsletter again,
[20:05]we used to have a newsletter.
[20:07]And then we didn't, and it's a lot of work, you know.
[20:10]All these pieces.
[20:11]I know, but during the pandemic,
[20:13]I'm like, we feel people need a little extra connection
[20:16]so that we started a newsletter
[20:18]and that's really been great.
[20:19]I enjoy writing that.
[20:21]And, you know, just somebody should do,
[20:23]wait, maybe I should do this, but somebody should,
[20:25]maybe somebody should, like, have it,
[20:31]have like a search engine for newsletters.
[20:33]Oh, yeah.
[20:34]You know what I mean?
[20:35]Like, I want a newsletter where,
[20:36]not just where I hear about certain people,
[20:37]but like, I want to hear about a sisterhood
[20:39]or I want to, I'm a woman facing these issues
[20:41]and I'm this, you know, I'm 45 years old.
[20:43]Like, what newsletter should I subscribe to?
[20:46]Like, wouldn't that be cool?
[20:47]Do you know what would be good?
[20:48]Yes, no, I know exactly what you need.
[20:50]Okay, get on that.
[20:51]I'm, all right.
[20:54]Jepitize, Jepitize one of your people
[20:56]or your kids or something.
[20:57]Like kids.
[20:58]Okay, literally writing it down.
[21:00]I like that.
[21:01]No, I just think it's cool.
[21:03]I mean, everybody, cause every author
[21:05]has to have a newsletter.
[21:07]Yeah, so, you know, everybody is,
[21:10]and then there are all these really great newsletters
[21:12]that are great,
[21:13]that have a lot of like, if you want great shopping tips,
[21:17]if you want, I don't know,
[21:18]there should be like newsletter curation
[21:22]because there's so many of them.
[21:23]And now it's like, sub-stack,
[21:24]and I'm sorry, we're gonna totally have to have it,
[21:26]but you know, no, I, well, I mean,
[21:28]I think it's interesting to me
[21:30]because there's a lot of fancy stuff out there,
[21:33]but newsletters are emails.
[21:34]And people still like emails.
[21:36]Like, it's a pretty basic communication
[21:39]and I think because the magazine business is dying,
[21:41]which breaks my heart, but I do think newsletters
[21:44]are feeling avoid of like telling people,
[21:48]like giving them just enough stuff
[21:49]to that that they can chew on.
[21:51]And, you know, with ours, I do, it's called PEP talk.
[21:55]So I do a little essay, which is PEP talk every week.
[21:57]But then we do to-do lists and recommendations
[22:00]in a book of the week and things like that.
[22:02]But I subscribe to like,
[22:04]the Department of Salad newsletter, have you?
[22:06]Do not.
[22:08]Yes, Doug.
[22:08]It's great.
[22:09]It's a great food newsletter.
[22:11]And she's Emily Non-Riteson.
[22:13]She's like a real anti-aging activist
[22:15]and a journalist and wrote for the New Yorker
[22:17]in the New York Times.
[22:18]But it's a lot of salad history, which I enjoy.
[22:21]You know, you're right.
[22:23]I wish more people knew about newsletters,
[22:25]because there are a lot of people
[22:27]who might really like that if you recommended it.
[22:30]Maybe there's some way to write, like recommend,
[22:33]I don't know, I'm going to sleep on this one.
[22:35]Okay, newsletter curation.
[22:37]I, well, I'll write it down too.
[22:39]Okay, I'll write it down too.
[22:41]All right, because I do think there's a lot
[22:43]of good material out there.
[22:45]But, you know, as they say in podcasting,
[22:47]or books, discoverability is the key, right?
[22:49]Yes.
[22:50]And that's so hard.
[22:51]Discoverability.
[22:52]Yeah, it's hard.
[22:53]It's hard.
[22:54]Okay.
[22:54]What are you reading now?
[22:55]Okay, so I just started a book called Ashton Hall,
[22:59]which is, it's about a classicist,
[23:01]which I like, because I studied classics.
[23:03]It's about a failed classicist, basically.
[23:05]And she goes to this house in England,
[23:08]and they discover a dead body from the 16th century
[23:11]in the basement.
[23:11]Her son, who has a lot of behavioral issues
[23:14]like makes this archeological discovery.
[23:16]So I just started it.
[23:18]And it's unfolding really well.
[23:20]I'm excited about it.
[23:22]But I, we put together just once a year, not every day,
[23:25]like you do a beach bag books list for satellite sisters.
[23:29]So I'm, we do that show next week.
[23:31]So I'm just like cramming in all the,
[23:34]all the beach bag books I can read to put them on the list.
[23:37]So that's when I think.
[23:38]Well, I do have a memoir coming out on July 1st,
[23:40]called Bookends, and then more of Love, Loss,
[23:42]and Literature.
[23:43]So I know, if you want to put it in a nice bag.
[23:46]Do you want me to say I do?
[23:49]Yeah, no, I, I've got it.
[23:51]I've got it.
[23:51]So no, don't worry.
[23:52]Yeah, it's on.
[23:53]Don't worry.
[23:54]OK, OK, because I can send you a coffee if you're awesome.
[23:58]All right, advice for aspiring authors.
[24:01]Oh, you know, I always say this,
[24:03]but I feel like people should take a class.
[24:05]I feel like there's so many good online writing classes now.
[24:09]There are great writers who are teaching it, extension courses
[24:12]at various universities and community colleges.
[24:15]And I know when I went to write my first novel at 45,
[24:18]I took a class.
[24:19]I took an online class.
[24:21]Because I felt like I needed the public humiliation
[24:23]as a motivator.
[24:24]Like I needed to say to people, yeah, yeah, I'm writing a novel.
[24:27]And I needed to pay money.
[24:29]I needed to actually pay money to have some accountability.
[24:33]But also in the class, you learn to take critique.
[24:37]You understand how valuable that is to be coming better.
[24:40]I met writers in the class, and we stayed friends
[24:42]and writing partners for years.
[24:44]So I know it's really tempting just to sit in your room
[24:47]and work on your stuff and never show it to anybody.
[24:49]But a class forces you to like put it out into the universe
[24:53]so you get comfortable with that.
[24:54]So take a class, take a class, love it.
[24:58]I'm still thinking about the newsletter thing.
[24:59]I think there should be a registry.
[25:04]Like you can search and there's a registry,
[25:06]but then once a week you highlight one.
[25:09]And maybe there's like a newsletter podcast
[25:11]or somebody becomes like the newsletter lady or something.
[25:13]A newsletter of newsletters too.
[25:15]You could just, yeah, a newsletter.
[25:17]Yeah.
[25:18]Yeah.
[25:19]No, I think there's something in it.
[25:21]No, because again, there's a lot of great content out there.
[25:24]A lot of great content.
[25:25]Okay.
[25:27]You could even like, you could even have some content
[25:31]that like you could have, well, okay, I'm going to stop.
[25:34]Okay.
[25:35]Anyway, back to your book to close.
[25:37]Lost and found in Paris.
[25:39]If anybody forgot what we were talking about.
[25:41]Lost and found in Paris.
[25:44]Lost and found in this conversation.
[25:46]Thank you.
[25:47]Thanks for coming on.
[25:50]Thanks, Jimmy.
[25:51]All right.
[25:52]Talk soon.
[25:53]Bye.
[25:55]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[25:57]Don't have time to read books.
[25:59]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebioans
[26:02]and at Moms.
[26:03]Don't have time to read books.
[26:04]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[26:07]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:08]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:11]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan
[26:12]at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:15]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:16]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.