Nadine Epstein, RBG'S BRAVE & BRILLIANT WOMEN: 33 Jewish Women to Inspire Everyone
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[0:58]Nadine Epstein is the author of RBG's Brave and Brilliant Women 33 Jewish Women to inspire everyone
[1:04]She is an award-winning journalist and the editor-in-chief of Moment Magazine
[1:08]Justice Ginsburg was one of her role models and she hopes this book a true labor of love will inspire people of all genders and ages
[1:15]She is the founder of the role model project in memory of Ruth Bader Ginsburg
[1:20]Welcome Nadine. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss
[1:24]RBG's Brave and Brilliant Women 33 Jewish Women to inspire everyone
[1:30]Hello, great to see you. I mean, I was looking for myself, but I didn't see her in here
[1:34]So I don't know you're gonna have to make an addendum
[1:37]Just kidding. I loved this book. I love these profiles some of these women
[1:42]I really was not that familiar with before I should say I'm a little embarrassed to admit that
[1:46]But I will just take one for the team by saying so and so I loved learning about them and
[1:52]All this history. What inspired you?
[1:55]Why do this book?
[1:57]How this coming back? First of all, you shouldn't be embarrassed by not knowing some of the women because
[2:01]I didn't know all the women either and just as Ginsburg didn't know all the women either
[2:05]I'll tell you the story
[2:07]So it's a really eclectic group of women, but basically I got to know Justice Ginsburg in over
[2:14]maybe at the last 10 years of her life and we were
[2:19]I discovered so on the editor in chief of moment magazine and I discovered she was a devoted reader of moment
[2:25]and she interviewed her and interviewed her a few more times and then she actually asked
[2:31]I helped her with a few philanthropic projects, which is something I don't normally do for anyone, but
[2:37]She asked me and I couldn't say no. Yeah, and in 2019 we honored her
[2:42]September 18th 2019
[2:45]Exactly as it turns out a year before she died
[2:48]And we honored her in New York and we gave her this incredible collar, which we had designed for her called the Zeddak collar
[2:55]Which is the justice collar. It was a beautiful lace collar that we commissioned and it said Zeddak Zeddak turned off on it
[3:01]Justice and it was she loved it so much and she announced she was gonna wear her first day of the term
[3:08]Which is a few weeks later and she asked me to bring it to her in her
[3:12]She didn't want to carry all the stuff back to New York to DC
[3:16]So she asked me to bring it to her and her chambers and I'd been to her chambers many times and by the way
[3:21]They were
[3:22]Absolutely amazingly
[3:23]They were it was like being in an art museum with a Supreme Court judge as your as the curator
[3:30]She just had exquisite taste and was beautiful and we're sitting there on I'm sitting there on her white couch
[3:36]And we start talking about she starts talking about the women who inspired her the Jewish women who inspired her life
[3:43]And and then I said something and she but they were like, can we get as old?
[3:46]And I mean I'm a lazer and it's a little involved and
[3:50]Really amazing women and then I I told her about how
[3:54]When I was in fourth and fifth grade. I was a really nerdy kid
[3:58]And I read every single biography in my little public school library
[4:03]All 350 of them and ten of them were about women
[4:07]And they were the standards Molly fits your Clara Barton Amelia Earhart
[4:12]But we see me all cut madam curie. They were all amazing women
[4:17]But they're just worried enough with them
[4:18]And so we had this conversation and in the middle of this conversation I
[4:23]Yeah, I got really excited
[4:24]You know, I I published books and I published a magazine and I write I'm a writer
[4:28]And I said, you know, we should write a book and I I have to say that I say this a lot
[4:34]I get excited
[4:35]Yeah, and Justice Ginsburg just sat there
[4:38]Right in front of me and she said
[4:40]Yes, and there we were we were on the journey to write a book and we had to figure out what it was
[4:47]Wow, that's cool. I say that to people a lot too
[4:51]It's whenever people don't usually say yes, let's do it. Let's go. So that's that's a great answer especially
[4:57]You know, that's a big get
[4:59]Well, it was just one of the things that happened. It wasn't something that you know
[5:02]I know I know I know I had it for this 30 things just in the conversation and so it was very it turned out
[5:09]It was really I had no idea at the time
[5:11]But it was she said yes because this was a really important topic to her
[5:16]This was a really important part of her life journey
[5:19]She really cared about the stories of women and she wanted these women to be part of her legacy
[5:27]And she started throwing out names of women first of all women in the hagata
[5:32]And I was like women in the hagata
[5:34]And she was saying we must we have to have Miriam. We have to have Miriam's mom
[5:39]And we have to have the midwives and we have to have Pharaoh's daughter
[5:42]And I said Pharaoh's daughter is she even Jewish?
[5:45]It doesn't matter if she's Jewish
[5:47]She's one of the women who ensured the survival of the Jewish people she needs to be in the book
[5:51]As it turns out, I later learned from midrash that she is
[5:55]And she was considered Jewish. She married to do from the Levi tribe
[6:00]And she left Egypt with these realites
[6:03]So if she's she was as Jewish as anyone
[6:06]So anyways, but there were so many women that she started mentioning
[6:10]And then we came up with a list along list of women
[6:13]And then she had to go back to work because she was Supreme Court justice
[6:16]She was very busy
[6:18]And I already have five jobs running the moment and all my other projects
[6:22]And I had to go back to work
[6:23]So I went home and did a lot of research and came up with about 150 names of women
[6:28]On top of, you know, including the ones she had mentioned
[6:31]And then she kept sending me more names and more names and more names
[6:34]And turned out that we it's a really eclectic group of women that are in the book
[6:39]Because we ended up really choosing the women that met the most to her in her life
[6:44]Plus, I added some women just sort of rounded out
[6:48]Because given justice Ginsburg would have just chosen
[6:52]I mostly chosen writers, lawyers and singers and musicians
[6:58]And I felt like we really needed
[7:00]And then the women from the Bible
[7:01]I felt like we needed to have, you know, a greater diversity
[7:06]And so I ended up learning about her women
[7:08]Some of them I had never heard of
[7:10]And she ended up learning about the women that I chose
[7:13]Some of them she had never heard of
[7:15]So it became a very eclectic group
[7:17]And there's still a list of, you know, I only got to like 33 women
[7:22]Plus, I did a whole chapter on her after she died
[7:26]So there's many, many more women we never really were able to get to
[7:30]But it was so important to, of course, when she died
[7:32]Also, I realized so few people know
[7:35]They don't really know about justice Ginsburg
[7:37]They know she's notorious, they know she was famous, they know she was supreme court judge
[7:42]But they don't really know why she's famous
[7:44]And the story of the whole book is kind of the evolution of women's rights
[7:50]If you read these stories of these women
[7:52]They tell the story of evolution of women's rights
[7:56]In the Jewish world, but they tell the story of the evolution of women's rights
[8:00]In the world
[8:01]It's amazing
[8:02]I mean, the chronology of it
[8:05]I love how in the beginning when Ruth Bader Ginsburg says
[8:09]Once you chose your role models, it's good to have many
[8:12]I hope you set your mind to do great things and stay steady on your course
[8:15]The world needs more brave and inspirational people and you can be one of them
[8:19]Right, it's like, okay, go forth and conquer
[8:21]And then we have all these interesting women
[8:23]It loves learning about Marty Ginsburg more
[8:25]I didn't know that much about him
[8:27]Fannie Mendelssohn, the talented pianist
[8:30]I didn't know, I didn't even know that he had a sister
[8:33]who really composed a lot of the music
[8:35]I didn't know that
[8:36]Did you know that?
[8:37]And who may have been more talented than he was
[8:39]Yeah
[8:40]And who never was allowed to publish or perform
[8:44]So wonderful
[8:44]Her dad was alive
[8:46]So that was one that really meant a lot to Justice Ginsburg
[8:49]She felt that Fannie Mendelssohn's life had just been a complete injustice
[8:54]And had to be, you know, we had to address that
[8:57]So Fannie Mendelssohn is in the book
[8:59]Also Gertrude Berg
[9:01]And how it ended up becoming the Goldbergs essentially
[9:04]The first that come about a Jewish family
[9:08]And yeah, very funny
[9:10]But she's not just a writer and an actor
[9:15]She is one of the first women to build her own media empire
[9:19]She owned the rights of her company and all those
[9:22]The radio show and then the TV show
[9:25]And then the Broadway play and all the other spinoffs
[9:29]And with something that she owned the rights of
[9:32]And this was something that Justice Ginsburg
[9:34]When she was a little girl was listening on the radio with her family to the Goldbergs
[9:39]And she already knew that Gertrude Berg
[9:43]Was a woman who didn't like at that time
[9:46]Women didn't want like women did not go out and earn a living
[9:50]Because they might embarrass their husbands
[9:52]Who that would show that their husbands couldn't support them as they should
[9:56]So and just as a young kid
[10:00]Ruth Bader Ginsburg knew that that was nonsense and that was she knew that she learned that from
[10:06]you know listening to Gertrudeburg and she learned a lot from her mom, she had an amazing mom.
[10:12]So how did you learn? How did you and I'm like let's shift to if you don't mind a little more
[10:16]did I hear I like I'm so interested in all the things that you do also aside from this oops
[10:21]aside from this wonderful book and now I mean I'm delighted to have more Jewish women to
[10:27]use his role models especially for my two Jewish daughters know that but you started you
[10:32]okay so Eli was all started moment magazine how did you get involved did you start you started
[10:38]with him it still is in existence now you have the print version you have the digital version
[10:44]every commentary on everything from Jewish world affairs arts and culture to everything it's
[10:50]it's really impressive and by the way I subscribe to the print and the digital so um
[10:56]I've already been perusing the articles and everything well first of all the book by the way
[11:01]it's not just for girls it's a really it's a really it's a really great point because initially
[11:07]when we started it justice Ginsburg we're thinking about girls and then I had a number of young
[11:14]people read it and by the way in the book it's from like it's for 10 to 120 it's not written
[11:20]down it's really intergenerational book a book meant to spark conversation and spark thinking
[11:26]for all ages but basically it's not there you know I had a 12 year old boy at the time read it
[11:32]and he said these are amazing people why isn't the book this was at first draft why isn't the book
[11:38]written for you know me and so I went to justice Ginsburg and we discussed it and we made it's
[11:43]for everyone because it's role models are about traits you know this is a book about role models
[11:50]and you want to have a variety of role models and it's not because you want to like
[11:54]push up somebody or you want to you want to make put somebody up on a pedestal it's because you
[11:58]want to identify traits in them that you might want to incorporate into yourself and those traits
[12:05]that are in these women are traits that boys girls all genders can incorporate into themselves
[12:11]and that's really an important important part of like emotional intelligence building
[12:15]and so this is for everyone and it's not something that kids just do it's something that we
[12:20]as grownups and as parents need to be continually learning and adding traits to ourselves
[12:28]to help us to become you know begin to grow into that person we were always meant to be
[12:33]and we're on that journey to becoming I didn't mean to pigeonhole the book and I'm sorry
[12:39]but I was excited to share with my girls so I had I had the same thing by the way with
[12:44]princess charming that just came out like they had all the copy and it was like the best
[12:47]book for girls like to inspire them to be young feminists and I was like why is this just for girls
[12:52]like anybody you should want to try harder and that's like the message of the book you know so
[12:55]anyway I totally get absolutely so Ellie was out Ellie was out and let her find actually co-founded
[13:02]moment in 1975 in Boston and I never I was just a kid never even heard of it yeah and many many
[13:12]years later I'd been a journalist written some books and done done all sorts of different things
[13:17]and I just finished a book and I was a single mom and I decided that I should get a job and
[13:23]get out back out in the world and I just randomly got hired at moment magazine which happened
[13:27]to be six blocks from my house and I thought what a great mommy job and it was for a little while
[13:33]but the magazine was not at one of its apex high periods and it was in the process of trying to
[13:38]be sold and there was a deal made for it the deal fell through and so without knowing anything
[13:44]about actually like running a business besides having sold lots of girl scout cookies and put it on
[13:52]carnivals when I was a kid I knocked down the door and just say well I'll take it over and so I had
[13:58]to raise the money and put it together to to buy the magazine and I did and I put it in a non-profit
[14:06]and it's just incredibly amazing to me there we are 18 years later the magazine is just
[14:11]driving in so many ways we have live this incredible events program in the virtual events program where
[14:19]you know every with just it's like amazing quality it's like we are the 96th street Y
[14:25]you know we are the striker center we have just incredible programming one to two or three
[14:30]times a week at moment mag.com slash zoominars just great programming with huge audiences we have
[14:37]the print magazine we have a beautiful website which is one best website several years in a row
[14:44]we have newsletters that are just top-notch we have a fiction contest we just have so many ways
[14:51]the Daniel Pearl investigative journalism initiative will we give grants to write about
[14:55]project stories about prejudice so it's just such an alive project so much creativity coming
[15:01]out of our little tiny basement office in the afternoon DC I would think the cartoon
[15:08]captioning contest oh yes I want to try I want to try my hand at that that looks so it's a great
[15:14]contest Bob Minecraft from the New Yorker started it for us years ago and we also have a book we
[15:19]did with Bob I would choose I saw that I was about to buy that and it's a good contest
[15:24]cart and so it's a little bit easier to win than the New Yorker contest so that's a little bit
[15:29]about the story of moment and and somewhere and again somewhere in there I guess around the
[15:34]2012-1314 to when I started you know when Justice Ginsburg became came into came into my life
[15:44]here at moment so because we're based in DC so it's a little bit of a there's like a DC world here
[15:50]I read the article you wrote about the two Haitian girls I think they were Canadian and yes
[15:55]in middle school education and how you almost got to bring their letter to Eli Wiesel and then he
[16:00]fell ill and passed away before you could and all the and all that you learned about the movement
[16:06]to teach the Holocaust in public schools and I didn't know about that or and I found that fascinating
[16:13]we have an amazing story in our not this current issue but the last issue called the state
[16:17]of Holocaust education in America and it's really wonderful look back to what well look at what's
[16:23]happening today it gives you the context and one of the things we do at moment to try to give you
[16:27]the context the meaning the history that goes along with this so we're not just all floating around
[16:34]in this you know confused information sphere so yeah so that's moment also you have moment
[16:40]books so tell me about the books that you're producing well we actually produce a number of
[16:46]books over the years in the last few years we did a whole piece of book on Eli Wiesel it's called
[16:52]an extraordinary life in legacy and it has it's really like a wonderful companion to the book night
[16:58]really gives you his full picture of his life with a lot of his wonderful speeches in it
[17:03]and a visual timeline in his life and what turns out to be like so many gorgeous photos of him
[17:09]which is so it's it's really it's a beautiful book which I edited and then have I got a cartoon
[17:15]to you the moment welcome Jewish cartoons which Ross chas wrote a forward to and and Bob Mike off
[17:21]um do that he wrote he edited it and oh a wonderful can can robots be Jewish oh and other pressing
[17:30]questions of modern life edited by Arbonian opinion editor and books editor Amy Schwartz and it's
[17:36]just it's really funny and smart book it's part of in our in the magazine we have this section
[17:41]called Ask the Rabbis where we really ask really relevant meaningful questions to a whole spectrum
[17:48]of rabbis like on of all different kinds of denominations beyond denominations and so this is a
[17:54]district great it's a great come a great book we have Theodore Becal's the city of light which is a whole
[18:00]story that Theodore Theodore Becal who is a famous singer folks singer and an actor anyways that's
[18:08]another wonderful books we have and we have other other projects in the works so so that's one of
[18:13]the things that we do and in your spare time you're gonna revive as very park right I read your
[18:19]piece in the British Springsteen well as we as we parks being robbed all without me so
[18:26]I mean it's it's happening that was a piece I did a long time ago that was in an anthology
[18:31]the the Springsteen reader but that penguin did I have a lot of other projects that I've done
[18:36]I'm also an artist I just didn't art show that just closed here it was called
[18:41]lovely inarticulate woman goes into the world it was a gallery here in Georgetown I'm working a
[18:46]lot I've been really inspired by justice this book with Justice Ginsburg by talking to people I see
[18:54]the real message of this book is really the road to gender equity and the real message is that
[19:01]we're not there we are so far from where we need to be and we're really not talking about a
[19:08]long-term strategy Justice Ginsburg was a long-term legal strategist and what we're doing right now is
[19:13]we're running around and putting fires out we really need to come up with a plan for how we can
[19:19]create the cultural change necessary to not only just bring more women into power but to
[19:26]change the tone of politics but to actually then be able to
[19:30]enshrine gender equity into the constitution whether it is an ERA or an XQY or ZWH we have to
[19:38]come up with a long-term plan for that so this is something I've been thinking a lot about
[19:42]and also the book is very much about women finding their voices which is something that you
[19:47]and I have in common here finding my voice has been a long journey and Justice Ginsburg became
[19:54]one of my role models and helped me taught me a few
[20:00]very, very important life lessons
[20:02]that have really changed my life.
[20:04]So what's one of the most important?
[20:06]Probably one of the most important ones was that
[20:09]many, many years ago I was sitting in her chambers.
[20:12]And for some reason I said,
[20:14]you know, I like being a journalist and a writer
[20:16]because I can be behind the scenes
[20:18]and I don't really have to go out there
[20:20]in front of people and talk.
[20:22]And she said, get over it.
[20:26]Just like that, she said, get over it.
[20:29]She said, if you don't speak your mind,
[20:31]no one will speak it for you.
[20:33]And I really, really just touched me.
[20:37]And I never really thought about it in those terms before.
[20:42]And so I was a very, I was a,
[20:45]she was a very, by nature kind of reticent person
[20:49]and who kind of taught herself to be out in the world.
[20:52]And I was a writer, but I wasn't somebody
[20:55]who was out there saying what I really thought.
[20:57]And so, and I was, and I didn't really like to get up
[21:00]on stage and do that.
[21:02]So I actually really had to work on myself, you know,
[21:04]I took, like I loved to sing,
[21:07]but I always sang in private.
[21:08]So I went and I started singing and taking sing classes
[21:12]and singing and I took public speaking
[21:14]and I took musical theater and I took improv classes
[21:18]and I took a stand-up class at the DC improv.
[21:21]And I did a DC improv show and I just forced myself
[21:26]to get out there in the world.
[21:28]And it really transformed myself
[21:30]because of Justice Ginsburg who could stand up
[21:33]and be one of, she was like, when she went to Harvard
[21:35]at her first year of law school,
[21:37]she was one of seven women, I think it was,
[21:39]maybe nine women in this huge class of men.
[21:43]And she had, and one of the men in her class was Anthony Lewis,
[21:48]who was already reported on the Pulitzer Prize,
[21:51]already worked for the New York Times
[21:52]and he was there at some kind of fellowship.
[21:55]And he was so smart, she found him so intimidating
[21:58]that she found her really difficult to speak in class.
[22:03]So she went home, she did her homework,
[22:05]and she forced herself to.
[22:06]And so if she could do that, well then,
[22:08]I can do that too.
[22:10]So it was a really important lesson
[22:12]that I got from her.
[22:13]I love that.
[22:14]Who knew that Ruth Fader Ginsburg would inspire you
[22:17]to do like a stand-up in improv?
[22:21]I mean, that's crazy.
[22:21]Now you never know where things are gonna take you.
[22:23]You don't.
[22:24]And then the other thing that's really important is that,
[22:27]so I thought I was, I thought I had pretty high standards.
[22:30]So another conversation I have with her once,
[22:32]I think I said something in retrospect,
[22:34]I don't know why I said this.
[22:36]No, it would be really wonderful
[22:37]if we get to the place where we have half the members
[22:39]of this Supreme Court or women.
[22:41]And then she looked at me and she said this before
[22:43]to other people and said, why half?
[22:46]We should have nine.
[22:47]We've had nine men for centuries,
[22:49]and no one's made of fuss about that.
[22:51]And I went, wow, she's so right.
[22:55]Because it's so important, the tone,
[22:58]bringing women into the Supreme Court,
[23:01]bringing more women or majority of women
[23:04]or all women into the Senate,
[23:05]to the Senate and to the House representative
[23:08]and to all leadership positions
[23:10]is really incredibly important.
[23:13]We have to change the tone of politics.
[23:15]We have to change this kind of,
[23:18]what I want to say very masculine,
[23:21]old-fashioned masculine archetype of being more,
[23:26]who can be the most dominant, being very dismissive.
[23:30]I'm not just of women, but of each other.
[23:32]There's a kind of tone that women bring
[23:36]that I think is really important now.
[23:37]It's not all women, I know that.
[23:39]And there are many men who have it as well
[23:41]and more men coming up in the world,
[23:44]like our sons who have it.
[23:46]And so it's not just about genders.
[23:49]It's just not about having more women in politics.
[23:52]It's about having more men, women,
[23:55]people of all genders who have the traits
[23:58]that women do bring to politics.
[24:00]They're sort of traditional traits
[24:02]that women have brought to politics.
[24:04]So it's really important for us to think
[24:07]in terms of traits as opposed to gender.
[24:10]So we have to create change.
[24:13]And that's one of the really important messages
[24:15]in this book.
[24:16]It's why there's a call to action at the end.
[24:19]And it's not changed by just arguing with people.
[24:23]One was the last time you actually had an argument
[24:25]with somebody and you convinced them
[24:26]that they were wrong and you were right.
[24:28]And they actually, even if you did that lasted
[24:32]for more than 10 minutes, really, you know.
[24:35]It just doesn't happen in our highly polarized society.
[24:39]We have to come up with different ways
[24:40]to think about, to have discourse.
[24:44]So anyways, these are some of the things that she's led
[24:48]this book and my conversations with her have led me
[24:51]to think about and become much more involved about.
[24:54]I love that, that's great.
[24:56]Well, I know we're almost out of time,
[24:57]but I just wondered what advice you have
[24:59]for aspiring authors.
[25:02]Oh, of all ages, of all ages, you pick any and all.
[25:07]Well, first of all, just do it.
[25:11]I mean, you just have to do it.
[25:13]You just have to sit down and write something
[25:17]and it's often gonna be awful the first time you write it.
[25:21]Every once in a while, you might write something
[25:24]the first time that's worthwhile.
[25:26]But in that awfulness will be one idea or one sentence
[25:31]or a few ideas that you can build into something
[25:33]that's worthwhile and meaningful and beautiful to you
[25:38]that you can share.
[25:40]So I think you just have to plunge right in to writing
[25:45]and be willing to do all the, what is editing,
[25:49]what is writing really is thinking.
[25:51]We're willing to think yourself through
[25:54]to get to something that you feel is your voice
[25:59]and your proud of and it's a very hard process.
[26:02]And I'm still in the process of doing this
[26:06]and it's over and over and over again.
[26:08]You just, you know, you're pumped, plunge into new topics
[26:11]over and over and over again.
[26:12]But somewhere in there, you find that core
[26:15]of what you really wanna say and what's important
[26:17]and that is worthwhile to say.
[26:19]And you have to spend that time to find it.
[26:23]I don't know if that's helpful, but that's just for me.
[26:25]I think it's helpful.
[26:27]Okay, last question, I promise.
[26:28]But what's like your number one secret
[26:31]to getting all the things done that you do
[26:33]and managing all the stuff?
[26:34]Like what do you think enables you to do it the best
[26:37]or what are some of the things?
[26:39]Okay, well, there are some days where I think
[26:41]I'm just completely insane.
[26:44]And, you know, I think what's happened is that
[26:47]I've just learned to trust the voice in me,
[26:49]my own voice, there's a voice in me which says,
[26:52]this is the time to do this right now.
[26:53]This is the time to do this right now
[26:56]and not listen necessarily always to what other people say
[27:00]because in reality, in terms of time management,
[27:03]it may not be.
[27:05]But so I'm somebody who has so many projects
[27:10]and also there are just times where that project,
[27:14]one particular project just speaks to you
[27:16]and this is what I have to do.
[27:17]This is the next step.
[27:18]This is what I have to say here.
[27:20]And the next day, another project may come up.
[27:24]Now I know and I have a wonderful staff
[27:26]and this drives people crazy.
[27:28]So I totally admire people who can just focus on one thing
[27:34]for months and months and months and years and years.
[27:37]But and I'm someone who just has my brain
[27:41]just works differently.
[27:43]And I've taken me years to just accept that.
[27:46]I wish it was different in a way.
[27:49]But, you know, creative people have their own way of being
[27:53]and on some level we have to respect that.
[27:55]You have to respect that in yourself.
[27:58]And over the years, of course,
[27:59]I have gotten much better at time management.
[28:02]Oh, I promise you're doing a good job.
[28:04]So I don't know how do you do it.
[28:06]How do you do all the things you do?
[28:09]I don't know.
[28:10]I haven't articulated it at the way you just did,
[28:12]but I like that voice in your head
[28:14]because it's true.
[28:15]I'm like, okay, I know I shouldn't be working on my website
[28:18]right now, but like, no, I really need to
[28:20]because it's got to be right today.
[28:22]But shouldn't I be doing that?
[28:23]So I think it's just hyper awareness
[28:26]of what I'm doing at all times, right?
[28:28]Like I am doing this for this time.
[28:30]And then I have to quickly move on
[28:31]and then I'm going to do that.
[28:32]And then I have to make sure I get this in,
[28:34]and then like keeping less always.
[28:36]And oh, I'm a sense of list keeper.
[28:39]I have so many lists and I've always been that way.
[28:42]So it's usually important.
[28:44]In fact, I feel like once you have so many things going
[28:47]and like you're juggling all these balls,
[28:49]they all come together.
[28:51]There's a synergy.
[28:52]There's a themes that run through all of them
[28:55]and they are all different expressions
[28:57]of these different, of these same themes.
[29:00]And in a way, you're throwing these all up into the air
[29:03]and you're sort of managing to keep them all going.
[29:06]And occasionally you drop them all
[29:09]because there just stays when you got to drop all the balls.
[29:13]But then the next day, they just somehow
[29:17]the energies back and they're back up there
[29:20]and they're working and it's a kind of magic
[29:23]you have to respect.
[29:25]I love that.
[29:26]Well, thank you.
[29:27]That was personally helpful and helpful in general.
[29:29]And thank you for talking about your amazing book,
[29:32]not just for girls, not just for kids, for anybody,
[29:36]which is a very inspiring collection of lesser known
[29:40]and more widely known Jewish women rock stars essentially.
[29:43]So thank you.
[29:44]Thank you for coming on.
[29:45]It's wonderful.
[29:46]Thank you so much for having me.
[29:47]My pleasure.
[29:50]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[29:52]to Read Books.
[29:53]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[29:55]at the Beowans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:58]Also sign up for my newsletter.
[30:00]at Zibioins.com and sign up for my virtual book club
[30:02]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[30:05]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact,
[30:07]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[30:09]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:11]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.