Amelia Morris, WILDCAT: A Novel
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.
[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,
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[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Z cast podcast network. You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.
[0:58]Amelia Morris is the author Wildcat, a novel. She's also the author of the blog,
[1:02]Bun Appetent, named after one of the 25 best vlogs of the year by Time Magazine,
[1:07]as well as the memoir by the same name. Her work has appeared in the Los Angeles Times,
[1:12]McSweeney's The Millions, and USA Today. She's also the co-creator of the podcast, Mom Rage.
[1:17]She lives in Los Angeles with her family.
[1:20]Welcome, Amelia. Thank you so much for coming on moms don't have time to read books to discuss Wildcat, a novel.
[1:26]Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Oh, it's my pleasure.
[1:29]I have to say I listened to your final episode of mom rage last night with Eda,
[1:34]and who was on my either my podcast or my IG live during quarantine something about her book.
[1:39]Yeah, that was really fun. It was very calming. I was listening to you guys reading poems.
[1:44]This is so lovely. I should do the star off it.
[1:47]I know we went out with a bang with poetry.
[1:52]Wait, so if you don't mind, start with the podcast piece, and then the blog and everything, and then we'll get to how you ended up writing this book.
[2:00]Sure, sure.
[2:02]So the podcast was Eden's idea, and I was a little hesitant. We talked about it in that very first episode, which was like way back in 2018, I think.
[2:12]But just like, I don't know, mom rage. I didn't really want to have like a mom podcast and just like, why am I cage you about this word mom and like mommy and I just feel like it like throws you into this realm of domesticity that like people don't take you seriously.
[2:31]But anyway, but I didn't have a lot going on at the time. So I was like, okay, let's do it.
[2:36]And it was actually, it was really good experience. The pandemic kind of ruined it and like our workflow and Eden had a third baby.
[2:44]But it was really great. I mean, I learned so much like we interviewed so many people. I read so many books that I wouldn't have read.
[2:51]It was really, it was really good.
[2:53]Amazing. And then tell me also about starting your blog and how that ended up becoming a book too.
[3:00]So it might be so bono. But yeah, yeah.
[3:03]Okay. So that we got to go back to like, was it 2007 I was in grad school.
[3:09]But you know what, let's go back to the beginning. Where are you like, give me like some context. Where did you grow up?
[3:15]Were you always into all this writing food stuff like where, you know, where did you come from the whole thing.
[3:21]I was a baby. Okay.
[3:26]Okay. I grew up in like rural Pennsylvania.
[3:32]Slowly, slowly, slowly discovered I wanted to be a writer kind of in college.
[3:38]I accidentally went to a school with like a really good writing program.
[3:41]And so, you know, it was trying to be a writer not getting anything published got into an MFA program,
[3:49]well maintained UNC Wilmington. And I guess it was like, it's like 25 or 26. And you know, it's it's funny looking back, but like feeling like a failure.
[4:00]Cause I couldn't get anything published.
[4:02]And started cooking because I was, I was hungry for real food.
[4:08]Like, I don't know if you went through the phase in your twenties were like, you were.
[4:12]I was just like eating like frozen Amy's pizzas for every meal.
[4:16]And then frozen yogurt, but yes, okay.
[4:19]Like none of my meals were real, you know.
[4:22]And so I was just like sort of cooking.
[4:25]And I think I was just like frustrated with the way that our world is obsessed with results and like the shiny finished product.
[4:33]And so I just got the idea to do a food blog, you know, it was like everyone was blogging.
[4:40]So, so Bon Appetemps was born with this idea that like every post would be the like food magazine's version and then my version.
[4:50]And I think it's did it start to start.
[4:54]It started. I tried to make this like layered cake that was on the cover of Bon Appetit and mine had toppled over and Matt had my husband.
[5:02]I don't know if he was my husband. Yeah, I think it was my husband at the time. Anyway, he took all these pictures.
[5:06]of all these funny pictures of this like layer cake that toppled over on like Christmas day.
[5:12]But it was funny. Like I wasn't invested in being a good cook. So I could like have fun with it.
[5:18]And the way I couldn't with writing were like, I wanted to be a good writer.
[5:22]Like my identity wasn't like wrapped up in it.
[5:24]So then I, yeah, that's okay. Now I'm like, I haven't thought of it.
[5:28]Well, that's how it all started. That was the first post. It was like Bon Appetit's perfect version and my like fallen over.
[5:36]All right, so then when do you turn that into a book.
[5:39]Okay, so I did it for a few years before it gained any traction. It's kind of slowly started gaining traction and at the same time, you know I graduated from my MFA program with a novel that was my thesis.
[5:55]And so the novel is growing, and I'm also trying to get an agent for this novel that I wrote.
[6:02]And, you know, I got like a few people that were sort of interested, but nobody wanted to be my agent.
[6:08]And then I finally got a response from an agent who didn't want to represent the novel, but was like, I like your food blog, what about a food memoir?
[6:18]Because, you know, it was like Molly Wiesenberg and Louisa advice they, they had had, they had done like the food blog to memoir path. And so I was just like so.
[6:29]Like stoked to have anyone recognize me that I was just like, Okay, let's do the food memoir.
[6:37]So, so, so event, you know, I made a book proposal and then eventually, is that what you did with yours, did you do a book proposal?
[6:44]I've done so many of book proposals for my memoirs. It's like embarrassing.
[6:48]I could like, I could publish a 500 page book of book proposals that I have written.
[6:54]Yeah, I'm going to just write another, let me try it as a book proposal. Let me see how this, I have like books about podcasting. I have like all these different proposals, but I don't know.
[7:04]So, basically, yes, that's how it started. Yeah. Yeah, so eventually, the, the proposal was finished and somebody bought it. Great.
[7:14]Yeah, but the novel, nobody ever, it lives in my computer somewhere with everyone else's first novel. Yeah, totally.
[7:23]Okay, so then this then became your first published novel, right.
[7:28]Yeah, so I get around. So this is the, this is the timeline. So my MFA thesis is nothing, but it did lead to my food memoir, which is one of attempt. Yep.
[7:39]And then wild cat. It kind of plays, you know, there's like some auto fiction elements. So like the main character Lee and is coming out with a food memoir.
[7:50]So does that make sense? Yes. Got it. Yeah. Amazing.
[7:56]So then do you feel this like huge sense now of like relief that it's out or not.
[8:04]I feel like, so you're, you're in the run up to your first book coming out. Yeah.
[8:11]I have a children's book that just came out, which is like an entirely different audience. And then I tried doing these two anthologies. So at least I've like gone through the.
[8:18]Right.
[8:19]The process, but this is the first like pride and joy personal.
[8:22]The most naked.
[8:23]The most naked. Yes, I'm getting a little nervous.
[8:26]Oh, thank to be honest with you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So.
[8:30]I, I felt so much relief when it's old because it took a while.
[8:38]Just, you know, like I went through a big revision. It was just like a long process. And so when it's sold, I definitely felt like a huge relief. Like, yeah.
[8:45]And then when it came out, it was just like more. I mean, it's great, but it's just like it's, I don't know. It's like a emotional trying process.
[8:54]I think. Yeah.
[8:56]I mean, it's not, it's not easy to sell a book.
[9:01]No, it's like, you know, I feel like I really need to write an article about this because it's like all I'm talking about these days. But, you know, when you don't have a book deal, like all you want, like my whole dream was just to get a book deal. Right. Like, it would be a book. Somebody would recognize it. Like, I would be.
[9:18]I would really be a real writer, a real author. Like, oh my gosh. And one of this for my whole entire life. And then it quickly becomes. Okay. Well, how many did it sell.
[9:27]And, you know, how is it doing? And then it's like, well, I've got to make it so better. And I've got to make it this. And, you know, it becomes very pressure filled and outside metrics and making so much of a difference.
[9:39]And it's so hard. It's just so hard. Yeah. So I don't know. That's my experience least. Yeah.
[9:45]But my, the thing that I always think about that doesn't need some solace is like, there are so many good shows on all these different streaming networks. And it's like, it's just they're really, really, there's so many so many good books. There's so much good content.
[10:00]Yeah, and I feel like you can barely get your friends to like watch the show you're watching let alone the book you're reading. You know, you're so right. That's such a good point.
[10:09]I know and people have less and less time. Right. And then they have less and less attention. So yeah, I feel like the first step was to celebrate back on reading.
[10:18]Yeah. Yeah. Let's go back to that. Let's just like go back to that as a category. You know, and then it'll open up some words.
[10:25]I know. I know people that don't, you know, lots of people they like only read on vacation or.
[10:32]Just like, well, how do you process the world? Like, I don't understand.
[10:36]That's how I calm down. I mean, I can be so frantic and then I can just sit here and like read part of your book and I'm like, oh, okay, like my shoulders go down, you know, it's like, I don't know, maybe other people are just better at self regulation than I am.
[10:51]It's hard.
[10:52]Like external books. So let's talk more about your book and how you came up with this whole plot for it. Tell me about this.
[11:00]The cats in your life. Like what is going on with the scammer and cats and all the rest.
[11:05]I actually don't have any cats. I'm slightly allergic, but that theme just kind of kept growing and growing like.
[11:13]So the origins, the origins of the book. I started writing it when I was pregnant with my second kid. He's now six. So I was just, I had a lot of angst.
[11:26]I was really, I was in this huge fight with my mom.
[11:30]So I felt like so unsupported by like the world and personally.
[11:35]And then I kind of just poured it all into this book like kind of like, I don't know, all of my, my ajada.
[11:45]I had this image for, I like wanted to, I was writing towards the scene where like a mom is having a breakdown, but it's not like by herself.
[11:54]She's like, it's like a public breakdown.
[11:57]And that's the, that's like the big cat scene. I don't know if that gives anything away. I don't think so.
[12:05]But that was kind of the scene I was working toward. I just, I wanted Lee in to, you know, kind of like call bullshit on
[12:16]the, everything we put on moms and I don't know if that makes sense.
[12:24]So like, with the mom stress, and I feel like it could go in eight million directions.
[12:30]Like, is there an area that you are most plagued by, you know, is it the scheduling? Is it the, is it the, you know, just the constant neediness? Is it the, well, I'm going to just project. So you tell me like,
[12:44]Yeah, I think the hardest thing for me to deal with.
[12:48]Oh, God.
[12:50]And you have two kids now or.
[12:52]Yeah.
[12:53]Six and what?
[12:54]Six and eight.
[12:55]They're almost exactly two years apart.
[12:57]As I have boys in January. That's what I do.
[13:00]Okay.
[13:02]I mean, I had so many so many things hit me, but I think it really revealed to me how much space I need. And I think like as a writer.
[13:10]Like I already needed space to myself, you know, but I, yeah, I just like, I needed space to think I needed space.
[13:18]Just in general, like, I couldn't really.
[13:22]I remember getting really frustrated with like trying to get work done while they napped.
[13:27]And then like, eventually deciding to like take that off and just be like, don't try and get anything done when they nap, you know, and that helped a lot.
[13:36]But yeah, just I just really.
[13:39]I need them out of the house. Like I need to be away from them in order to like give them my best self when they're here.
[13:48]And I think it's just, you know, I think you, you really have to know yourself. At least that's, I think the conclusion I've come to is like I really need to like know myself so that I'm not thrown when I see somebody else doing something differently or like,
[14:04]you know, like I need to be secure in that like I'm doing the best for my family. It may not look like other people's families, you know, but I think that takes a while.
[14:14]So then how did you deal with the pandemic when you had new space. Oh my God, I, you know, it's, I think Matt my husband.
[14:24]It's that I always say like I'm somebody with like a lot of boundaries and Matt has no boundaries like he just like lets the kids in in a way that I can't.
[14:36]But point being when so Teddy's my oldest kid and his first grade was almost entirely on zoom.
[14:45]And we definitely I had like a breakdown at the beginning when I realized it was like September and it wasn't working like he needed to be monitored for the zoom because he just he was one, he couldn't do it.
[14:59]And I, you know, was trying to be there, but I could I couldn't do it because I was like.
[15:05]I kind of need two hours in the morning.
[15:08]That's like my time and I had a total meltdown and then Matt was just like I'm going to do it. I'll I'll sit in and Matt like saved our lives.
[15:20]That's amazing.
[15:21]Yeah, yeah, he's he's really great. I mean, I really think that like.
[15:27]But I don't know. I say I say Matt was the best decision of my life often.
[15:33]That's great.
[15:35]Yeah, you can share.
[15:37]Share the, yeah, there is no timetable for kids. There's no like I'm going to let you chill out and I'll be back later when you're ready.
[15:45]That would be nice.
[15:47]Yeah.
[15:48]Yeah.
[15:49]I know I'm so grateful for literally every single day of school when they go.
[15:53]like today I don't have a kid. I'm and I've said it like 20 times. I'm like, I don't have any kids. I'm today. This is amazing.
[15:58]I mean, I love love love love love love love. But of course.
[16:02]What's your youngest is how well seven.
[16:04]Okay.
[16:05]I have seven eight and then twins who are almost 15.
[16:08]Wow.
[16:09]So teenagers.
[16:11]Yeah.
[16:12]Siding.
[16:15]Yeah.
[16:16]I'm already bracing myself for when these little guys are teenagers.
[16:19]I think that's going to be even more of a wild.
[16:21]Yeah.
[16:22]That's right.
[16:23]So then when do you get your writing in now?
[16:25]Father at school.
[16:26]Yeah. Yeah.
[16:27]They're both in school.
[16:28]And yeah, I have found that like really I'm happy with like one to two hours.
[16:34]Mm hmm.
[16:35]And a day, you know, I feel like before kids.
[16:39]I was like a thousand words a day, thousand words a day, you know.
[16:44]But I think that's kind of stupid now.
[16:48]Need to be more flexible and chill.
[16:51]Awesome.
[16:52]Was your mom like flexible and chill with you?
[16:56]Oh, God.
[16:58]I asked about my mom.
[16:59]Yeah.
[17:00]I want to know.
[17:01]I want to know about this fight.
[17:02]What was going on?
[17:03]Oh my God.
[17:04]She's she's a pediatrician.
[17:05]So she worked a lot.
[17:07]And I didn't live with her for a lot of my childhood.
[17:11]I grew up with my dad and stepmom for a lot of it.
[17:15]So,
[17:17]girlfriend wasn't really there.
[17:21]And she's I would not say she's chill.
[17:24]Would not.
[17:25]I think she's one of those people that like never.
[17:29]She's never done therapy.
[17:30]Let's put it that way.
[17:32]Okay.
[17:33]So she doesn't really know why she does the things she does.
[17:38]Mm hmm.
[17:39]She just does them.
[17:41]And yeah, the fight.
[17:42]The fight.
[17:43]The fight is too like inside baseball.
[17:46]But, but a lot of it is around her being a Republican.
[17:51]And just like cruelness.
[17:54]General cruelness.
[17:56]Got it.
[17:59]It's like a whole another book.
[18:01]All right.
[18:02]Well, I'm ready for that.
[18:03]Yeah.
[18:04]Do you get along with your mom?
[18:05]I think not for the podcast.
[18:07]Yes.
[18:08]No.
[18:09]You know, I feel like like many mother daughters relationships.
[18:13]We have definitely had our challenges.
[18:16]Yeah.
[18:17]I'm not sure.
[18:18]I'm not sure that we have the relationship that she wants us to have.
[18:22]But I'm happy with what where we have ended up now.
[18:26]Nice.
[18:27]Do you and you have at least one daughter, right?
[18:30]I have two daughters in two cents.
[18:32]Right.
[18:33]Do you does that like bleed into your relationship with them?
[18:37]Like your relationship with your mom?
[18:40]Some things.
[18:42]No.
[18:43]I mean, I don't know.
[18:44]Maybe it did more when I was younger.
[18:47]I don't know.
[18:48]No, but that I'm ancient.
[18:49]I feel like I have everything sort of where it needs to be emotionally.
[18:53]And so all I can do is be the type of mom I want to be to my kids.
[18:59]Taking the good from what she's done and what I've seen and the good from my dad
[19:03]and all the rest.
[19:04]And you know, that's all we can do.
[19:07]It's like do our best.
[19:08]You know?
[19:09]Yeah, for sure.
[19:10]Sometimes though, I find myself doing, I'm like going so the opposite of something that I'm like,
[19:14]well, this is ridiculous.
[19:15]It's almost as bad as, you know, like to flip the switch so completely.
[19:19]It's like I have to just ignore and like move on and make my own decisions.
[19:23]Do you feel like?
[19:24]Yeah.
[19:25]Yeah.
[19:26]Totally.
[19:27]I get it.
[19:28]I don't know.
[19:29]Right.
[19:30]I remember I wanted a girl, you know, I ended up with two boys.
[19:32]And now I just feel so grateful.
[19:34]I'm just like, I love that I got two boys.
[19:37]I just am like so glad.
[19:39]Boys are so cute.
[19:41]Oh my gosh.
[19:42]They're great.
[19:43]I'm like, so what are you working on?
[19:46]I'm assuming you're not working about a memoir about your mom.
[19:49]What is in the pipeline now?
[19:51]Well, yeah, I am working on something that I do think it's like,
[19:57]you know, my first book was a memoir.
[19:59]Yeah.
[20:00]This second book has some auto fiction.
[20:02]And I feel like this book that I'm working on
[20:04]is much less auto fiction, but I would say
[20:07]that I'm like working out some mom stuff still.
[20:13]But yeah, I was really inspired by normal people
[20:16]as was everyone, maybe.
[20:18]I don't know.
[20:20]But I was like, I'm gonna write normal people fan fiction.
[20:23]Mm.
[20:24]And so that's kind of where this next project started out,
[20:27]just trying to like set up.
[20:30]Did you read normal people?
[20:31]Yeah.
[20:32]And I watched, I watched probably half of the show.
[20:35]Just half?
[20:36]Yeah, I know we never finished it.
[20:38]I know.
[20:39]Oh my God.
[20:39]I know.
[20:40]My husband finished it without me.
[20:42]And then I just never went back and I'm gonna blame him.
[20:46]Yeah.
[20:48]I watched it twice.
[20:49]Oh my gosh.
[20:50]So good.
[20:51]And then I like couple it in my mind with Flea Bag.
[20:55]The second season of Flea Bag, did you watch?
[20:58]Oh, so I know, I know I was supposed to watch.
[21:00]I don't watch a lot of TV.
[21:01]I know.
[21:02]I know.
[21:03]I have to, you don't have to apologize.
[21:05]It's like people that apologize for not being on social media.
[21:07]I'm like, oh my God, like congratulations.
[21:11]But yeah, so I wanted to like set up this like intense
[21:16]longing, like this like couple that can't quite be together.
[21:19]So anyway, I'm enjoying it.
[21:23]That's awesome.
[21:24]Yeah.
[21:25]That sounds great.
[21:26]Amazing.
[21:27]And I wanted advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[21:29]You know, I really liked, I listened to your episode with Chelsea Beaker.
[21:32]I really liked her episode of her advice was like 30 minutes.
[21:36]Like, muse it, because I feel like a lot of times when I only have 30 minutes
[21:41]and like it's not worth it.
[21:42]But I would say just to be patient, just like be patient with yourself.
[21:47]Like, I like, like going back to that, my pre mother itself that wanted to write a thousand
[21:53]words a day, like that's totally one approach.
[21:56]But it's not the only approach and having kids, I feel like there would be, I would
[22:01]go for weeks without even opening up my word document.
[22:04]And like, that doesn't mean that it's dead.
[22:06]Like, you just have to eventually just have to open up the word document and you'll
[22:12]get there.
[22:13]Yeah.
[22:14]That's what I would say.
[22:15]Love it.
[22:16]Amazing.
[22:17]Well, it was great.
[22:18]Getting to know you.
[22:19]Thanks.
[22:20]You too.
[22:21]Thanks for coming on.
[22:22]Yeah.
[22:23]Wildcat.
[22:24]Love this little baby.
[22:25]Oh my God.
[22:26]So great.
[22:27]Thank you so much for all of your time.
[22:28]Thank you.
[22:29]And good luck with your pre pub stuff.
[22:31]Thank you.
[22:32]Yes.
[22:33]Thanks.
[22:34]Appreciate it.
[22:35]Cool.
[22:36]All right.
[22:37]All right.
[22:38]Thank you.
[22:39]Thank you.
[22:40]Bye-bye.
[22:41]Bye.
[22:42]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[22:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to
[22:50]Read Books.
[22:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[22:55]lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[22:57]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[23:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.