Fran Hauser, EMBRACE THE WORK, LOVE YOUR CAREER: A Guided Workbook for Realizing Your Career Goals with Clarity, Intention, and Confidence
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[1:29]Fran Houser is the author of Embrace the Work Love Your Career, a guided workbook for realizing your career goals with clarity,
[1:36]intention, and confidence
[1:37]Fran is passionate about leveling the playing field for women
[1:41]She does this through her investing, writing, and speaking
[1:44]Fran has invested in over 30 female-founded companies across consumer tech
[1:48]CPG media and publishing and wellness
[1:51]She is the best-selling author of the myth of the nice girl achieving a career you love without becoming a person you hate
[1:57]Which has been translated into six languages and was named to best business book of the year 2018 by Audible
[2:03]Fran's new book Embrace the Work Love Your Career is quickly becoming the go-to for women seeking more joy and fulfillment in their career
[2:11]Fran regularly speaks at conferences and organizations to help women build careers they love while staying true to themselves
[2:16]Much of her current work is informed by 15 years spent in media where she rose through the ranks at timing to become president of digital
[2:24]She lives outside of New York City with her husband's and two sons and I got to know Fran through the copper books
[2:30]lunch
[2:30]She and I are both investors and copper books which was founded by Ali Troperich
[2:34]Welcome Fran. Thank you so much for coming on momstone
[2:37]I have time to read books to discuss
[2:38]Embrace the Work Love Your Career, a guided workbook for realizing your career goals with clarity,
[2:44]intention, and confidence
[2:46]Hi Libby. Thanks for having me
[2:48]Thanks for being here. I
[2:51]Should have worked on my to-don't list
[2:54]All last night because I love that concept and I was like oh, she's so right
[2:59]I should go through my calendar and figure out what I could cancel and just say that I shouldn't do and
[3:05]But it's so hard to do that
[3:06]So I don't know that particular concept really resonated with me because I have trouble saying no
[3:10]Why don't you tell listeners a little bit about the workbook and how it came to be
[3:15]I know you you tell the story in the book, but tell all of us and then
[3:19]Come back to the to-don't list and help all of us busy people figure out what not to do
[3:23]I know that's one of my favorite parts too
[3:25]I have to be honest the setting boundaries and saying no and
[3:29]So the inspiration for the book really came to me during the pandemic
[3:34]You know is the middle of the pandemic and
[3:36]I was reading all of these articles about how many millions of women
[3:41]were leaving the workforce and
[3:44]How many millions more we're just questioning their career path and their purpose and you know
[3:49]I think we've all been kind of going through a little bit of an existential crisis
[3:54]right we're questioning the meaning of of everything in our lives and I
[3:58]You know realize that I was sitting on all of this content just from
[4:03]All of the mentoring that I've done and all of the talks that I've done and you know
[4:08]I have all these exercises and tools and
[4:11]Questions and writing prompts and I thought you know it'd be really great to just kind of put that all into a book and and make it more of a
[4:20]Guided workbook, you know as opposed to a 60,000 word
[4:23]Narrative, you know prescriptive book so
[4:26]There's my you know my stories are in here
[4:29]My failures are in here so it's it's very relatable
[4:33]But there's also like all of the strategies and the techniques and
[4:38]It's really interactive. It was important for me to make it interactive
[4:42]I really wanted readers to feel like
[4:45]They're the authors of their careers, you know by going through this book
[4:49]They're really crafting whether it's reconnecting with their work or whether it's coming up with a whole new path
[4:55]You know whatever's right for them
[4:57]so that was really the inspiration for the book and
[5:01]We actually got it done in a year which is amazing
[5:04]You know from the time that I came up with the idea
[5:06]I guess was last February
[5:08]Came out this March, which is incredible
[5:12]Right, you know, this is your world like it's so it makes me so happy
[5:17]I just wanted to get it out into the world because I really feel like it's
[5:22]Women need this book, you know, it's just it's the perfect time for it
[5:25]So coming back to the to-don't list and saying no
[5:29]There's a whole section in the book as you know on setting boundaries. Yeah
[5:34]And really creating the time and space so that you can focus on the things that matter so that you can focus on
[5:43]Your goals when it comes to your career when it comes to your life, right when it comes to your world and
[5:49]I know like as women you just have we have so much on our on our plates and
[5:56]I have always been a people pleaser and it's always been really hard for me to say no like my knee-jerk reaction is always to say yes
[6:04]And I've had to learn over the years, you know, especially when I got back to work after my first maternity leave when I
[6:11]I went back to time ink, you know, I was the president of digital. I had a really big job
[6:16]And I was feeling really vulnerable, you know
[6:19]I was feeling like I had to say yes to everything to show that I could still do it all
[6:24]Even though I had this baby, you know that had this baby at home and it wasn't working
[6:28]It just it really wasn't working and I actually got an executive coach and we spent a lot of time
[6:35]Just kind of working through like okay, so
[6:38]What are the things that I really care about and what are the priorities that I should be setting that are going to really help me move the needle
[6:45]at work and in my career
[6:47]And being really clear about what those things are like what what are those things that are going to move the needle and then
[6:54]Really clearing my plate and that's where the two don't list
[6:59]Came up. This was for 12 years ago now
[7:01]But the idea of like really looking at like what are the things that are just not important right now?
[7:06]And it's just no for now like I could always come back to it
[7:10]It's not no for forever in a few months. It might make sense
[7:14]Like while I was writing this book
[7:16]Zippy one of the big things that went on my to don't list
[7:20]Was taking pitch meetings with entrepreneurs because that's my day job. I invest in startups
[7:26]And you know entrepreneurs will reach out to me
[7:29]They have an idea for a business. They have a pitch deck. They want to get my feedback
[7:34]I love doing that and that's my job
[7:36]But basically what I said was look, you know, I'm heads down writing this book
[7:41]So for the next six weeks. I'm not going to be taking any pitch meetings
[7:46]And you know what's so nice about that. It's not a personal. No, you know, it's like I've made this decision
[7:52]It's not about you. It's I've made this decision that I'm not going to be taking pitch meetings for the next six weeks
[7:59]So you know just being really clear about what goes on your to don't list and then also
[8:03]Not being afraid when you get that inbox request asking
[8:07]You to do something
[8:08]Like I literally have to check it with myself because if I'm about to say yes
[8:13]I have to ask myself like are you saying yes because you feel badly saying no
[8:17]Or are you saying yes because this is something that's really aligned with your priorities or it's something that's going to bring you joy
[8:24]You know, so it's just really checking in with yourself and being intentional before you say yes
[8:29]And you also give us a nice ways to say no as well
[8:34]Which I also I mean it seems obvious
[8:36]But it's really not for people who
[8:39]Tend to want to say yes to everything
[8:40]So I loved how one one thing you said was just saying like thank you
[8:45]Oh, I hear how you can't attend the event
[8:47]You have a little chart like I can't do that, but I can't do this
[8:50]You know where you give me
[8:51]I love that I can't attend the event, but I'd be happy to promote it on social media
[8:55]I love that was great
[8:56]I can't participate on the committee
[8:58]But I can introduce you to someone who who might be able to that was also great
[9:02]I can't take the lead on running a project to your event, but I can help brainstorm some ideas
[9:05]I can't attend the entire meeting, but I can go for the end
[9:08]I mean, it's these are these are really good
[9:11]And then how to say no kindly what I also love this page
[9:14]Thank you
[9:15]My plate is full
[9:17]Say no or offer a lower lift way to assist
[9:20]Best wishes
[9:22]Two lines
[9:23]You know sometimes like when you're saying no, sometimes we feel like we have to write three or four paragraphs
[9:28]Just defying why we're saying no
[9:30]And it's really just keep it short and sweet and I always start by saying thank you. Not I'm sorry
[9:36]Yeah, right because our default is I'm so sorry. I can't make it or I'm so sorry. I can't participate
[9:41]Versus thank you for thinking of me. Thank you for the invitation
[9:46]You know, and then I'm heads down working on whatever so I won't be able to participate
[9:51]But I'm rooting for you. I wish you the best
[9:54]Short and sweet and you know what what else to like
[9:58]Most people appreciate a fast
[10:00]to know as opposed to being strong alone.
[10:03]Sure.
[10:03]Don't you?
[10:04]Like, if you tell I do, I would rather know,
[10:07]can you know what?
[10:08]This is not aligned with this person's priorities right now.
[10:10]So let me just move on.
[10:13]And by the way, this isn't just for work.
[10:14]This is also like to the countless people
[10:17]who are recruited to be, you know, PA chairman or class
[10:22]mom or all these things.
[10:24]Like I keep talking to people who are like,
[10:26]well, I got myself into this because they asked
[10:28]and I couldn't say no.
[10:30]Like, but maybe could you, I mean, maybe you couldn't have,
[10:33]or they just felt too bad, or the gills of the kids are,
[10:36]I don't know.
[10:37]I just feel like there's so many areas.
[10:38]It's not just professional.
[10:39]I agree.
[10:40]I mean, look, I go there too.
[10:41]I do so much volunteer work, you know, at the schools.
[10:44]And I've definitely done less over the years.
[10:47]You know, like I remember when my oldest
[10:50]was in kindergarten, you know, I was so eager.
[10:52]And I, you know, just really wanted
[10:54]to become more entrenched, you know, in the community.
[10:56]So, but over the years, I've definitely done less and less.
[11:00]And I've also just been really strategic about like,
[11:03]where does it make sense for me to spend my time?
[11:07]Like, for example, like, I actually loved volunteering
[11:10]for the school store because it actually got me into the school.
[11:13]And I was able to see my kids or the book fair
[11:17]because I love books.
[11:18]I did that too.
[11:19]I'm on to your name here and then you're in the school.
[11:24]So I started doing less of the fundraising stuff,
[11:27]which was more kind of like on my own time,
[11:30]not at school.
[11:31]It was more about the committee work
[11:32]and doing less of that and doing more of the things
[11:35]that got me into the school.
[11:37]And that really weren't as heavy of a lift, right?
[11:40]So just thinking through, like, there are always,
[11:43]I'm always thinking about like,
[11:44]how can I turn something that would be like 10 hours
[11:46]of my time to 15 minutes of my time, you know?
[11:50]Like, so sometimes it is an introduction.
[11:52]Sometimes I have to say no to a speaking event,
[11:54]but I have so many people in my world
[11:57]who are looking for speaking opportunities.
[12:00]And it makes me feel so good to be able to offer
[12:04]those opportunities to others, right?
[12:06]So I just, I love that.
[12:09]I feel like it's a win-win.
[12:11]So this is if you have too much to do,
[12:12]which, sorry, I honed in on,
[12:14]because that is the moment in my life right now,
[12:16]but there have been other moments in my life
[12:18]where I've not had enough to do
[12:19]or wasn't sure which path to take.
[12:21]And I think a whole, another whole group of people
[12:23]are currently in that or have been coming off
[12:26]of being at home with the kids
[12:27]or their kids just went to college.
[12:29]And they're like, now what, right?
[12:30]There's so many moments.
[12:32]And I do feel like you said originally,
[12:34]there's this sort of groundswell, right?
[12:37]It's like, you know, in like a subway's coming
[12:39]or not that I've been on somebody in a while,
[12:40]but like, you know, like if you feel the reverberations
[12:43]of the train before it's right there,
[12:44]I feel like that's the moment that we're in.
[12:46]There's like this, like, women, so many women
[12:49]are just like in that moment where like,
[12:52]there's about to be this explosion of talent,
[12:54]like back on the scene in all these ways,
[12:57]because, well, I don't know,
[12:58]that's how I feel about it.
[12:59]Do you feel that same energy?
[13:01]I do.
[13:02]And I have a lot of women that are reaching out to me
[13:05]and they're really nervous and they're worried
[13:09]and they're not quite sure what to do.
[13:12]And, you know, I always say to them,
[13:14]I think one of the best things to do
[13:16]when you're in that moment of like,
[13:19]of uncertainty and transition
[13:21]or maybe you're feeling stuck is reach out to people.
[13:24]You know, a grab a coffee, do a phone call,
[13:27]zoom, whatever, let people know where you are
[13:31]and what you're thinking,
[13:32]that you're thinking about your next chapter,
[13:35]because I find that when you're talking to people,
[13:38]like, especially if you're curious,
[13:40]you know, you learn a lot.
[13:42]You learn about some opportunities that might be out there
[13:44]that you never would have even thought of.
[13:46]And now you're also on their radar.
[13:48]You're in their head, right?
[13:49]So like, if I hear about an opportunity,
[13:52]I'll remember that, oh, my friend Trish,
[13:54]this could be like a great, a great fit for her.
[13:57]So I think it's really important
[13:59]to really get out there and talk to people,
[14:02]to not like sit in your home and just worry
[14:06]and like, you know, kind of let it fester,
[14:07]but really like state what your intentions are.
[14:10]And if you're not exactly sure what they are,
[14:13]just let people into your world
[14:14]and just put it out there.
[14:17]You know, you gotta like put it out into the universe.
[14:19]I think that's probably one of the most important things
[14:21]that you can do.
[14:22]And this workbook too is super helpful.
[14:24]I mean, in helping people even figure out
[14:27]what they want to do, what they're good at,
[14:29]what they feel good about.
[14:31]Yeah, I love this minimum viable product,
[14:33]by the way, going back to two dollars, but yeah.
[14:36]So that is really like,
[14:37]because some of us, myself included,
[14:41]get into this like place of feeling like everything we do,
[14:44]like it needs to be perfect.
[14:45]And that was another kind of big awakening for me
[14:49]after coming back from maternity leave was,
[14:52]I realized that I was spending so much time
[14:54]like making even like internal reports look perfect.
[14:58]And it really didn't, it just really didn't matter
[15:01]at the end of the day.
[15:01]It was really more about the content versus the form
[15:05]that the content was in.
[15:07]Or even like if I had a new business idea,
[15:10]I remember like I would put together a whole like power point
[15:13]to just go talk to my boss about it.
[15:16]And I just stopped doing it,
[15:17]stopped doing that.
[15:18]I would just go in and just say,
[15:19]hey, I'm thinking about this.
[15:21]Here's why I think it's a good idea.
[15:23]What do you think?
[15:24]And if she liked the idea,
[15:25]then I would pull the team together
[15:26]and we would do more work.
[15:28]But you know, so like the minimum viable product
[15:31]is a really important concept again at work and in life
[15:36]in general.
[15:37]It's true.
[15:38]No, it's true.
[15:39]And then another, I know I'm jumping all over
[15:41]because you have so many good things
[15:42]in the book, but also management.
[15:45]And this is great communication, not just at work,
[15:48]but this is like for marriage or friends or whatever.
[15:52]Some of these questions where you're in a disagreement
[15:55]and you're like, can you tell me more?
[15:57]I want to make sure I'm understanding your perspective.
[15:59]That's really good.
[16:01]When you're at a crossroads and you need to make a decision.
[16:03]Have you been in a situation like this before?
[16:05]How did you approach making your decision?
[16:07]And when you're looking for feedback,
[16:08]what else should I be considering?
[16:10]When you're asking about an experience
[16:11]that the person had in the past,
[16:12]what were your biggest insights
[16:13]from going through that experience?
[16:15]This is great.
[16:16]I'm interviewing a bunch of people anyway.
[16:17]So these are also great questions to ask.
[16:20]Well, you would have just too.
[16:21]I feel like when you leave,
[16:22]like when you have open-ended questions,
[16:25]you'll get so much more.
[16:26]It's true.
[16:27]And even like with the founders that I've invested in,
[16:31]I always encourage them to not ask like,
[16:34]what would you do if you were me?
[16:36]But to really ask more about like,
[16:38]have you been in a situation like this before?
[16:40]Like, how did you approach it?
[16:41]Like, what did you learn from it, you know?
[16:43]And I think it's important, you know,
[16:46]to keep those questions more open-ended.
[16:49]You'll just learn more.
[16:50]You'll get more insights.
[16:53]And the whole thing about when you're disagreeing with someone,
[16:56]I just believe that it's so important to be respectful,
[16:59]you know?
[17:00]And even like as a leader,
[17:02]I've always tried to create a psychologically safe space
[17:06]for people.
[17:07]And I would always say this to my team.
[17:09]Like, look, it's great to disagree, right?
[17:12]And let's get into a healthy debate about it
[17:14]because some of the best insights come out of that.
[17:17]But when we disagree, we do it respectfully, right?
[17:20]And we always listen.
[17:21]We listen to understand, right?
[17:24]We listen with the intent to understand.
[17:26]And it's great to ask follow-up questions.
[17:28]But I just believe, you know,
[17:30]whether we're leaders in business or whether we're teachers, right?
[17:34]Like, it's all about like creating that environment
[17:37]where people are comfortable speaking up.
[17:40]You know, where they're comfortable sharing their opinions
[17:42]and their points of view,
[17:43]where they feel like they're not going to be disrespected.
[17:46]Yeah.
[17:47]So I just, I really believe that's so important for work,
[17:52]for school, for just our society, for culture in general.
[17:57]Wait, so Fran, I know about your amazing career
[18:00]and, you know, how you basically created people.com,
[18:03]people magazine for timing and all of these
[18:05]just amazing things that you've done.
[18:07]When you're investing now in women-owned businesses,
[18:10]and I know we've both invested in copper books,
[18:12]which is exciting.
[18:13]And I'm excitedly so hopeful for everything
[18:16]that Ali is doing and that whole, you know,
[18:19]social network for authors rather.
[18:22]When you are investing in a women-owned business
[18:25]and you are meeting the founders,
[18:27]what are the things you look for in a successful proposal?
[18:33]Or even in a woman you want to invest in?
[18:36]Like, what are the types of things that you feel like
[18:39]are home arcs of success or that interest you the most?
[18:43]Yeah, it's a great question.
[18:44]And, you know, I really think it comes down to a few things.
[18:48]It comes down to the founder, the market, and the product.
[18:52]And each one of those are really important, right?
[18:55]Like the founder, I really want to feel like
[18:57]they're personally invested in this.
[18:59]So it's something that they're really passionate
[19:01]about whatever the pain point is that they're solving
[19:04]or the opportunity that they're capitalizing on.
[19:06]Like, I really want to feel like they're the right person.
[19:09]You know, they're the right person to approach this.
[19:11]I also really pay attention to how do I feel
[19:14]when I leave a meeting with the founder?
[19:17]Do I feel like I want to spend more time with them?
[19:21]Do I feel energized?
[19:22]Because, you know, when you invest in these startups,
[19:26]it takes seven to 10 years for them to exit if they exit, right?
[19:30]If there's a liquidation event where the IPO
[19:33]or they get acquired, that's how we make money as investors.
[19:37]So it's a long-term relationship with the founder.
[19:40]So I really want to feel like our values are aligned.
[19:43]Like, this is somebody who I want to be spending time with
[19:45]in helping them to grow their business.
[19:48]And obviously, there needs to be a market.
[19:50]I really, you know, I need to feel like, okay,
[19:52]there's a clear pain point here.
[19:53]They're solving something big.
[19:56]And the product, you know, look,
[19:58]it goes back to envy.
[20:00]pay minimum viable product.
[20:01]I know that the product might change.
[20:04]It actually often does change, right?
[20:05]Like you come out with an MVP
[20:08]and then you get feedback and you pivot.
[20:10]And so I wanna feel like the founder
[20:12]is gonna be okay with that.
[20:14]You know that they're gonna be adaptable
[20:16]and that they're not gonna get,
[20:17]like they're not gonna dig their heels in
[20:19]because that's what happens sometimes.
[20:21]Like, you know, you have this idea
[20:22]and you're so entrenched in it,
[20:24]but you have to be willing to be flexible
[20:27]and to be able to adapt
[20:29]if you hear something different from your customer.
[20:33]So I really pay attention to all that.
[20:34]Look, I also, I do a lot of back channeling.
[20:36]You know, I look at LinkedIn and I looked at,
[20:39]you know, do we have mutual connections?
[20:41]Because it's not just about the resume
[20:43]and what they've accomplished.
[20:45]I wanna know how, I wanna know how they work.
[20:48]I wanna understand their character,
[20:49]their integrity, their values.
[20:51]So all of that is really important.
[20:54]What are some companies?
[20:56]I know you invested in movie phone, right?
[20:58]Didn't you?
[20:59]I was like, oh, okay, so I have to tell you,
[21:01]Zippy, do you remember movie phone?
[21:02]Of course I do, that's why I brought it up.
[21:04]Wasn't it seven, seven, seven film?
[21:06]Yes.
[21:07]So this was like in the way.
[21:09]So this was in the late 90s.
[21:10]The thing that I remember,
[21:12]it's like why that useful piece of information stayed in the way.
[21:15]But it's so funny cause when I'm talking to Gency
[21:17]or college students, they have no idea
[21:19]what I'm talking about when I bring up movie phone.
[21:21]But so I didn't invest in it,
[21:23]but I was, I was actually their SVP of finance.
[21:27]So I left Coca-Cola.
[21:29]I left like one of the world's most admired companies.
[21:31]27 to go work for seven, seven, seven film
[21:36]when they were just about to launch like movie phone.com
[21:40]and they were gonna put show times and ticketing online.
[21:43]And I just remember being so interested in it
[21:46]because, first of all, I'm a huge movie buff.
[21:49]I love the movies, but the internet was just getting started.
[21:53]So I really wanted to be a part of that.
[21:55]I mean, that was Web 1.0.
[21:58]And it was so amazing working there
[22:01]because after working at Coca-Cola
[22:04]when you work for a big company,
[22:05]it's very like, I was so focused on finance.
[22:09]That's, I was in financial reporting.
[22:11]And so then I went to movie phone
[22:13]and one of the biggest reasons I went was because
[22:15]it was an early stage company.
[22:17]And I really wanted to be able to roll out my sleeves
[22:20]and learn other parts of the business.
[22:22]Because eventually I wanted to be a general manager.
[22:24]I wanted to like run the whole business.
[22:27]So that's what I got to do in movie phone.
[22:29]I got exposure to everything.
[22:31]It was so amazing.
[22:33]We ended up selling the company to AOL.
[22:36]Right, like dot com bubble.
[22:39]So, and then the founders retired.
[22:41]They were like in their early 30s, they retired.
[22:44]And I ended up taking over like,
[22:46]I ran movie phone as a division of AOL.
[22:48]So that was my first general management job.
[22:50]Oh my God.
[22:51]So it was really the beginning of my media career.
[22:53]And then from there, I went to timing
[22:55]and I was there for 10 years.
[22:56]Oh.
[22:57]So I know, that was like honestly, I remember,
[23:01]I remember the CFO at the Coca-Cola company,
[23:04]like the CFO in Atlanta calling me when he heard
[23:07]that I was leaving.
[23:09]He thought it was absolutely crazy.
[23:11]He had never heard of movie phone.
[23:13]It's like, what are you doing?
[23:14]Where are you going?
[23:15]Like you could be the CFO of the Coca-Cola company
[23:18]if you stay here.
[23:19]And it was one of those things that I think it took
[23:21]so much courage.
[23:22]It really did to make that move.
[23:25]But I'm just, I'm so glad I did
[23:26]because it changed the trajectory of my career
[23:29]in a big way.
[23:30]Wow.
[23:31]And then you ran, this is just amazing.
[23:34]So by the time you launch people.com,
[23:36]you were in charge of that whole thing.
[23:38]People.com was one of the funnest parts of my career
[23:42]because, you know, it was me and my assistant.
[23:47]And there were a few people on the editorial side.
[23:50]And basically we had to convince the company
[23:53]and the people magazine was like
[23:56]the most profitable business at timing by far.
[24:00]The world's largest magazine.
[24:02]So we basically had to convince everybody
[24:04]that we could also create a business out of people.com
[24:07]that it wasn't just about pushing print subscriptions,
[24:11]which is what the website was doing at that time.
[24:13]And we ended up building this really big,
[24:15]it ended up being the world's largest media website.
[24:19]It was bigger than the New York Times.com.
[24:21]It was bigger than CNN.
[24:22]I mean, we were doing a billion monthly page views.
[24:25]Oh my gosh.
[24:26]It's like 40 million monthly unique visitors.
[24:29]And it ended up being one of the top 10 most profitable
[24:31]businesses at the company out of like 200 businesses.
[24:35]So for me, it was a really big deal
[24:37]because it was a big win, you know?
[24:40]And after that, they gave me in style
[24:43]and entertainment weekly and essence
[24:45]and people on a spinyol and real simple.
[24:47]Like, you know, so like my job got so much bigger.
[24:51]But I have to tell you,
[24:52]say, be I'll never forget this moment
[24:54]where I was having lunch with our CEO with AMOR.
[24:57]Yeah.
[24:58]And I was telling her like my job got so much bigger,
[25:02]but it actually got less interesting and less fun
[25:06]because it felt so much more administrative.
[25:09]You know, I felt like I was like spending so much more time
[25:12]on like budgets and cost containment
[25:15]and like creating presentations for the board.
[25:18]I really missed being close to the consumer
[25:21]and close to the brand, you know?
[25:23]And that was such a big, a big learning for me,
[25:26]you know, to sort of like be careful what you wish for.
[25:29]And that's why I encourage everyone, you know,
[25:33]you might love being an individual contributor.
[25:36]Maybe, you know, maybe that's your thing.
[25:38]Like not everybody wants to be a leader
[25:42]or a manager or like that,
[25:44]that could be a great path for you, you know?
[25:47]And sometimes we need to take a couple of steps back
[25:49]before we take a step forward and, you know,
[25:52]it's the career, like it's not this like ladder anymore.
[25:57]You know, my friend Patty Sellers always says
[25:59]it could be more of a jungle gym.
[26:01]You might go sideways, you might go backwards, right?
[26:04]But whatever works for you.
[26:06]And that's why I think it's really important
[26:08]to tune into like what are the parts of your current job
[26:11]that you really love?
[26:12]And is there a way that you can do more of that?
[26:15]You know, is there a way that you can lean into that more?
[26:18]Just saying, by the way,
[26:20]and maybe we should schedule another time.
[26:22]Maybe we should talk about this,
[26:23]but I'm launching this new content site,
[26:25]moms don't have time to with the original essays
[26:28]and all these different categories.
[26:29]And I read in your acknowledgements
[26:31]that you were to Kathleen Harris
[26:32]and I hired her to run the whole thing.
[26:34]Are you kidding me?
[26:35]No, she's one of my favorite people in the world.
[26:38]Yeah, she's amazing.
[26:39]She was the editor at realsimple.com.
[26:41]Yeah, when I was the timing, so we worked together.
[26:44]And she's been working with me on my personal platform
[26:47]on my newsletter, everything.
[26:49]She worked with me on Embrace the Work, Love Your Career.
[26:52]She's been working with me for the last five years.
[26:54]Oh my gosh, Sibby!
[26:56]Yeah, I know, I love her.
[26:57]She's freelancing with us for now
[26:59]to get the lunch up and then finishing whatever else she has to do.
[27:01]And she's coming on full-time in the end of July.
[27:05]I could not be happier.
[27:06]Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for you.
[27:09]And I'm so excited to help you.
[27:11]I'm so excited to help you.
[27:11]Yeah, I would love your advice.
[27:13]You're like such a guru and this whole thing.
[27:14]Oh my gosh, I love it.
[27:16]Amazing, I'm so excited for you.
[27:18]Congratulations.
[27:19]Thank you.
[27:20]Okay, well, more soon, we have so much more to talk about.
[27:23]But thank you for this book, which is so useful.
[27:26]I have like three people literally in mind
[27:28]who I'm going to give it to, right away,
[27:29]who are in this transition moment
[27:31]and we'll find it incredibly useful.
[27:34]But thank you for coming on the podcast.
[27:35]Thank you, thank you, you're the best.
[27:37]Thank you for all that you do.
[27:38]You too, thank you.
[27:40]Okay, bye.
[27:41]Thanks for listening to this episode
[27:44]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[27:48]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[27:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:55]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[28:00]for the Sound Editing.
[28:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:03]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.