Mai Al-Nakib, AN UNLASTING HOME: A Novel

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[1:28]My Al-Nakeeb is the author of an Unlasting Home, a novel.

[1:32]My was born in Kuwait and spent the first six years of her life in London, Edinburgh, and St. Louis, Missouri.

[1:38]She holds a PhD in English literature from Brown University and is Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature at Kuwait University.

[1:45]Her academic research focuses on cultural politics in the Middle East with a special emphasis on gender, cosmopolitanism, and post-colonial issues.

[1:53]Her short story collection, The Hidden Light of Objects, was published by Bloomsbury in 2014.

[1:58]It won the Edinburgh International Book Festival's 2014 First Book Award, the first collection of short stories to do so.

[2:05]Her debut novel in Unlasting Home is now out, and she divides her time between Kuwait and Greece.

[2:11]And welcome, eh? Thank you so much for coming on Bob's Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your novel and unlasting home.

[2:18]Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

[2:21]Would you mind? Please tell the listeners a little bit about what your book is about and what inspired you to write it.

[2:28]Okay, so an Unlasting Home is a multi-generational saga that traces the lives of five pretty formidable women spanning from the early 20th century to 23rd century.

[2:40]To 2013 and ranging across the Middle East from Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq, Kuwait to India and the United States.

[2:51]The story the novel opens when the protagonist, Sarah, who is a professor of philosophy at Kuwait University, is accused of blasphemy under a new law, designating it a capital crime.

[3:05]And so as she awaits trial, she begins to look back, trying to realizing that she has to reckon with her personal history, her personal past, her family's past, but also the history of her country.

[3:20]And so she begins to untangle the generational lines of the women who shaped her.

[3:26]grandmothers, yes, Nina, Nudwa, her mother, Nura, and her beloved Aya, Maria, who helped raise her.

[3:34]And so, you know, through this process, Sarah really, she kind of allows her to come to terms with why she's been so stalled in her life, why she made the decision to return to Kuwait from the United States and really helps her figure out who she wants to become.

[3:51]And in many ways it's a novel about inherited trauma and migratory passage, loss, resilience, but also how women are able to overcome these burdens that, you know, that are political personal historical in order to survive.

[4:11]That's one of the best descriptions I've heard.

[4:16]I mean, that's like, that's fantastic has every element you would read in a book.

[4:22]That's good.

[4:24]You start on you right with such vivid prose.

[4:28]So it makes you feel like there you are like in the when Sarah goes to prison and she has to and she sees all the messages of the women that they've written all over as like life lines reaching out to each other

[4:40]and has to come to terms of the fact that she's living, not unlike by the way, what's going on in the United States these days.

[4:47]But in a world where the rules have suddenly shifted and how do you make sense of that?

[4:51]How do you give a lecture in school and suddenly it lands you in prison and execution is on the table.

[4:58]I mean, that's crazy.

[4:59]Absolutely.

[5:00]Yeah, I mean, for me, you know, you asked about the inspiration, you know, I knew when I finished my collection of short stories when it was published in the light of objects.

[5:09]I had a sense that I wanted to write a novel and I knew I wanted to write something expansive and teeming.

[5:15]I wanted it to be about a, you know, family based in the Middle East and really I wanted it to be in many ways of women's, a story of women their relationships, their friendships and so on.

[5:26]I didn't really know exactly where I was going with it, but I had already started writing these two characters, Lula and Yasmine.

[5:34]And I wrote it back and forth, you know, moving between their stories. I didn't, you know, write the full stories and then kind of, and I didn't know how they would connect.

[5:42]I just trusted that somehow their stories would overlap.

[5:45]But then in 2013, the Parliament of Kuwait passed this law, making blasphemy a capital crime.

[5:53]And this was just such a shock to me. I mean, Kuwait had been becoming increasingly conservative socially and politically after the liberation in 1991 and beyond.

[6:06]This just was really unprecedented and it was just such a shock to me personally, but to many people.

[6:13]And I just remember literally collapsing on the couch, not knowing like how is this going to affect me and I selfishly started thinking how what about the classes that I teach is their material in the classes that I teach at university that might be construed as

[6:29]as blasphemous and absolutely 100%. There was, you know, I just knew that there could be material that might be looked at that way.

[6:38]But then I also started thinking about the chilling effect this was going to have on journalists and on political activists.

[6:46]And I think really it was the next day that I wrote a version of what would turn into that the first chapter of the novel, the Sata chapter and it then kind of came to me this idea that well, these stories of the women that I was already writing that was set much earlier historically, were going to somehow connect and Sata was going to be the pivot, you know, holding all of this together, all of these women's stories together.

[7:12]That was really the beginning of the process for me.

[7:15]When you went back to teaching after the new law was in place, did you make substantive changes to your curriculum?

[7:22]Not a thing, not a thing because I don't believe that as a teacher at university one should be afraid.

[7:31]I feel like I should be able to, you know, and I know that people, you know, we have to be careful and watch what we say, but I really don't feel like the university space should be that kind of space.

[7:42]It should be a place where you can make mistakes, both as a professor and as a student that you can say things that this is the place where you can, you know, experiment that you can, you know, challenge your students and even have your students challenge you and know that it's a place where transformation is going to happen.

[8:00]For these young students and then for yourself as well.

[8:03]And I just figured, you know, if I'm going to get in trouble for something that I say, let it happen.

[8:09]I just, and I do feel that because my students have a sense that I'm out there with them on the edge kind of experimenting with these ideas that they trust the situation, even if they don't agree, I've never felt threatened.

[8:26]I mean, knock on wood.

[8:28]It hasn't happened yet, but I didn't, I didn't, I didn't change any of the of my, my syllabi or any of the ways that I presented myself or my ideas in the classroom.

[8:38]And did you know, did you have friends or colleagues or anybody who actually were entrapped by this new rule.

[8:44]So the rule was overturned very quickly by the ruler of the country by the Emmy. So that was really great. Yes. So there are still penal codes. I mean, not because again in great capital punishment is exceedingly rare. It doesn't happen often.

[8:58]So it was, again, why it was such a shock to everybody. But luckily that law was over that amendment was overturned. But there are very conservative very rigid.

[9:08]rules and codes and penal codes and a few years ago a philosophy professor at great university was accused of blasphemy.

[9:17]And it was kind of crazy. I know her and I called her up, you know, and I said, look, I'm writing this novel and I've been writing it for many years.

[9:25]So it's not going to be based on you, you know, but this I can't believe this is happening. And she said, I know this is absolutely crazy.

[9:32]But again, somebody accused her and the prosecution took the case they shouldn't have. It was a very weak and illegitimate case and eventually it was thrown out.

[9:42]But I mean, this professor had just to really live with this worry for two to three months, you know, and have to have to defend herself and speak up.

[9:52]And she was very political. She eventually even ran for parliament herself. So she wasn't afraid or nervous about it. But it is.

[10:00]nerve wracking. It is scary, you know, to have this kind of accusation made against you.

[10:05]And, you know, we have a lot, many different kinds of, you know, everything is becoming more

[10:11]conservative in general and usually it's directed against women. I mean, we've had lots of

[10:16]things happen recently in the last few months. And I think it's obviously also going on in the US.

[10:24]And I think what happens in the US reverberates in the rest of the world too. You know, and it

[10:29]gives people a kind of energy to pursue things that women would rather not.

[10:37]Great. Perfect. Love it.

[10:40]Take me back a little bit about growing up and where you grew up and how you became a

[10:46]teacher and a writer and like, give me the life, how we got here, part of your life. Sure.

[10:52]So I grew up and I was born in Kuwait. I spent the first six years of my life out of Kuwait because

[10:57]my father was working on his medical residency and my mom was, she got her bachelor's degree. So we

[11:04]spent, I spent most of my early childhood in the United States. And we returned to Kuwait when I

[11:10]was six years old and then went to an American school in Kuwait because my mom believed in the

[11:15]American system of education and she wanted her daughters in the American school. And that was

[11:19]very rare at the time, but she really insisted and so it happened. And so I went to school in

[11:26]Kuwait and grew up there. We would spend about three months of the year in the US. So I did have a

[11:31]foot in both places it felt like. I went to Kuwait University and got my bachelor's degree in literature

[11:38]and then completed my doctorate in the US at Brown University and spent many years in the states

[11:44]at that time. And I always knew I wanted to be a writer. I've been writing since I was a kid.

[11:50]I was a voracious reader and I think for me the two were connected and I knew that was what I

[11:56]wanted to do. But going up in Kuwait, I didn't have a sense that that was an option. You know,

[12:02]there wasn't a creative writing program. I thought just was not a thing that I even knew existed.

[12:06]So I always imagined, well, I'd have to have a career doing something and then right on the side

[12:12]and literature seemed the closest thing to it. And so that's what I did. But the thing is, studying

[12:18]literature academically really takes you away from writing it. You know, so for a long time,

[12:24]I felt very bifurcated and I just teaching took over my life and, you know, writing, doing

[12:30]all of that academic work took over. And I really didn't feel like I could write, you know, and it

[12:35]was only after I got my job at Kuwait University that I felt I could turn to writing fiction. And,

[12:41]you know, I still dream of a time when I can do that full-time because teaching does make it

[12:46]very difficult to carve out the time and space to be able to write. But that is my first love.

[12:55]But at least you can maybe help develop the talent of your students, right? I feel like it's so

[13:01]important to when you're in school and when you're just getting going and writing from a young

[13:06]age or in college or grad school or whatever, just to have that vote of confidence from some sort

[13:10]of teacher. I think puts you on a different track than if nobody notices you're writing, right?

[13:16]Absolutely. And I get a lot back from my students. You know, I can be so

[13:22]first of all, teaching literature is a delight, you know? So teaching is hard work, but being able to

[13:27]teach the books that I love, putting together courses and having, you know, introducing things that

[13:32]I love to my students and having them engage with it for the first time. That's all wonderful. And

[13:37]then, you know, the discussions in the classroom and the it keeps you on your toes. All of that is

[13:42]really wonderful. And it's as good for me. I mean, I hope it's a good experience for my students. I

[13:48]get lovely feedback from from them, you know, but it's it's it is a wonderful thing to be part of,

[13:54]you know, I really feel, but it isn't, again, it's not I love to teach. And I think in some ways

[14:00]what's interesting is writing, there's a similar kind of reciprocity in the sense that you're

[14:07]writing alone for so many years. You're working on this project all by yourself. But at the end,

[14:13]you know, the aim is that somebody reads it and that it's just such a wonderful thing just to

[14:18]think that someone's going to be reading the words that you put together and that it's such a kind

[14:23]of intimate, really, it's not a relationship, but it just feels so wonderful. And I think there is

[14:28]a similar kind of reciprocity with your with the students, a kind of back and forth that is really

[14:34]fulfilling. So your book spans multiple generations and different families and even your family

[14:40]tree is like four pages long. Have you everything straight? Did you have massive outlines? You

[14:46]use no cards, whiteboard, like how did you structure? And did you have the whole thing planned out

[14:50]excuse me? Did you have the whole thing planned out before you started? I didn't actually,

[14:56]I don't write that way. So I when I begin a project, I think of the writing process as a kind

[15:03]of capture, I'm captured by something, you know, it may be a place, it may be a person, it may be

[15:09]an event, it could be something very specific or something very ephemeral, a kind of mood or

[15:15]you know, the slant of light, something captures me. And then I begin, my mind begins to wander

[15:22]and you know, I sort of follow, I go down rabbit hole, some of which may be productive, some

[15:27]which may turn up nothing at all. And so the whole thing feels very open, very nebulous at the

[15:32]start of a project. But then as things begin to come together, they begin to gel, I do, you know,

[15:40]I begin to think about how things will be structured, form becomes very important to me.

[15:46]So what kind of form is going to be able to hold all of this? So with this story that I knew

[15:51]as I started writing and things started to accrue and it was getting thicker and thicker,

[15:56]I knew that I needed a form to hold together for me. And as I'm writing it, and the three parts

[16:05]that helped me, you know, so it's in the first part is Ludwanyesin and Sada, interest first, and then

[16:12]the second part is Nudha, her mother and Maria, her caregiver, caretaker. And then the third part

[16:19]would belong to Sada. And there was the sense for me that there was a movement, you know,

[16:24]and Sada moving through their stories and then coming out at the end so that the reader would

[16:30]be moving along with her as well as she's collecting these old stories and also coming to terms

[16:37]with her current situation. So then the maps they build so that the family trees I would kind of

[16:44]map it all out and the family tree that is in the book, my version of that has all the dates,

[16:51]all the events I would just add, you know, one by one, everything that happened to all the different

[16:57]characters. So it was big, it was big. And then when you make a mistake or if you get something wrong

[17:03]and then you have, but it helps to have it all there, but it is really crazy. You have to go back and

[17:09]kind of make sure everything is aligned. So, but those maps, I think of it as a map rather than a

[17:16]tree, but the map not really helped me keep it all together. Very impressive. What are your own

[17:24]relationships like with the women in your life and your family and your family tree and your

[17:29]generations before you? So my immediate connection to women are my three sisters. So we're very close

[17:37]and I was very close to my one, I'm both of my grandmothers, but I lost one of my grandmothers

[17:43]that earlier and I had more of a chance to get to know my grandmother on my father's side.

[17:49]And she told me, she was a storyteller, a much like yes mean, I think if we were to connect her.

[17:55]And some of the lines of, you know, there are things that you can trace between the stories

[18:01]in an unlasting home and my life, but they're not the same people. You know, the sad is not me.

[18:07]And yes, mean is not my grandmother, but there are similarities in terms of just where they lived,

[18:13]where they were born and so on. But then obviously the characters took off and became their own

[18:17]people. I was very close to my mom, to my grandmothers, the stories, you know, that they've,

[18:24]that they, you somehow sort of just get, collect those stories without thinking of them as

[18:30]such until you're older, I think. And then you realize how these layered stories that are repeated

[18:36]over the years have shaped you, you know, so I think in that I share that a bit with Sarah,

[18:42]maybe I was a little bit more aware than Sarah, collecting the stories, maybe because I was a writer

[18:48]or had a sense of myself as a writer that I really kept tabs for what people were saying.

[18:55]And what do you like to read? Like, what are you reading now?

[18:57]Oh, right here. Eleanor Ferrant is fontamalia. So I haven't read that before and it's fascinating.

[19:05]I love her writing. Gosh, I, this is always the question I dread. I'm sorry.

[19:11]No, you know, because there's so much here. You're like, oh, no, I'm going to say Kafka is

[19:17]involved. I'll write writers that are important to me. Kafka has always been important to me.

[19:22]Kundera could say a nice name growing up. She was, you know, she opened up a world that I

[19:29]didn't know existed when I was maybe too young to know, but I did anyway. So many others, so many

[19:37]others. And what what now? Are you writing another book? More short stories? What's what's coming

[19:43]next? So I'm just at the start of a new, not what I'm hoping will be a novel at that capture stage

[19:50]where I've kind of been captivated by this island in Kuwait called Felica. And it's an island that

[19:57]has a history that goes back to the bronze.

[20:00]age and is connected to the Dilman dynasty. So it's it's old in ancient and there are remains from

[20:08]you know ancient Greek remains and ruins there and pagan shrines. So it's it's a place that is

[20:16]is very layered. It was inhabited by Kuwaitis until 1990, 90 during the invasion. They were forced

[20:22]out and then in 1991 after the liberation they weren't allowed to come back for security reasons.

[20:28]So the government bought back their properties or bought their properties and compensated

[20:33]and just emptied the island out. And so now when you go there it's an island of abandoned

[20:39]destroyed buildings. It's pretty empty. I mean there's there's some I wouldn't call it tourism but

[20:47]there's like a small resort there but really you can wander this empty abandoned island and it's

[20:53]just got these buildings. You can go into the buildings and there are you know things that are

[20:58]have been left for for decades now and it's just a kind of stark beautiful hunt. It seems like

[21:05]a haunted place to me. So I'm doing research around this place and it's you know it's ancient history

[21:12]but also what happened. And so it's set on that island and I'm thinking it's going to be set about

[21:18]10 years or so into the future. Something transpires on the mainland and one of the inhabitants

[21:24]a woman I think in her 50s will be forced to come back to the island and we'll see what happens

[21:32]but I'm just working now just on the research have no idea what's going to happen but I'm just

[21:36]reading around the island. Sounds nice. What's going to be there? Do you have any advice for aspiring

[21:45]authors? I do. I would say read widely. Read as much as you can and I would say read in translation.

[21:53]Read books and translation. Read books from the past and to read books that are not like the book

[21:59]you want to write. I think that it's really helpful for writers to read outside their comfort zone.

[22:06]I think you know I think it it's can be inspiring. It can be it can just open ways of thinking that

[22:12]you might not have registered and I think it can be humbling which is not a bad thing either.

[22:18]So that would be it.

[22:24]Well, May, thank you so much. Thank you for talking about an elastic home. Sorry I'm a little under

[22:28]the weather today. Usually a bit more animated but thank you for coming on and you know the thing

[22:34]I'm mostly taking away is that even with honestly life-threatening rules you're so brave as to

[22:42]stay the course and teach what you want and share the information and it's empowering and amazing

[22:47]and then here you are writing this huge book which is beautifully written and so adept and it's

[22:53]just it's really awesome. Thank you so so much. Thank you for those lovely words and I hope you

[22:59]feel better. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, bye.

[23:07]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to

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