Lynda Cohen Loigman, THE MATCHMAKER'S GIFT: A Novel
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.
[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,
[0:18]their book, their life, and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir,
[0:29]bookends, a memoir of love, loss, and literature, wherever books are sold starting July 1st, and my children's book prints is charming.
[0:36]You can learn more about me at ziviowens.com, but really you're here to learn more about the authors and that is what we're going to do.
[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Zcast podcast network.
[0:48]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.
[0:58]Today is a special week for zivi books because we have announced our spring season of books, launching in 2023,
[1:05]and are releasing one cover each day for this week of September 19th on at zivi books on Instagram.
[1:14]So check it out and follow along and see what our first books coming out starting in February 2023 are all about on zivi books.
[1:21]And while you're at it, check out the new zivi bag, zivi bag.com, which we launched last week and is the new literary lifestyle destination.
[1:30]Check it out.
[1:31]Today's episode features author Linda Leigman, and I'll tell you about her in a second, but this is one of the first that I'm releasing that is guest hosted by a very special guest host.
[1:41]I realized this fall that I had committed to way more interviews than I could humanly manage.
[1:46]And so I drew on the goodwill of a couple of fellow authors and podcasters to help me.
[1:51]This episode is guest hosted by Allison Petaki, who is a best-selling author in her own right and has written the magnificent lives of Marjorie Post,
[1:59]the Queen's Fortune, the accidental Empress, and many other books, including a memoir beauty in the broken places.
[2:05]So she is interviewing Linda Leigman, and now I'll tell you about Linda.
[2:09]Linda Leigman is the author of The Matchmaker's Gift, a novel.
[2:13]She has received a BA in English and American literature from Harvard College and a JD from Columbia Law School.
[2:18]Her debut novel, The Two Family House, was a USA Today bestseller, and a nominee for Goodreads 2016 choice awards and historical fiction.
[2:26]Her second novel, The War Time Sisters, was selected as a woman's world book club pick and a best book of 2019 by real simple magazine.
[2:34]She was also on this podcast if you want to go back and listen to her first episode about The War Time Sisters when I interviewed her myself.
[2:41]The Matchmaker's Gift is her third novel, and according to Publishers Weekly, readers are in for a treat.
[2:47]Thank you to Allison Bataki for guest hosting this episode.
[2:51]Hi there, I'm Allison Bataki, and I am joined now by Linda Cohen Leigman,
[2:56]an author of The Beautiful New Book, The Matchmaker's Gift.
[3:00]Linda, thank you so much for joining today.
[3:03]Thank you.
[3:04]Thank you.
[3:05]Hi there.
[3:06]Welcome, welcome.
[3:07]So this is your third book.
[3:09]It is a beautiful book.
[3:11]It is a gift.
[3:12]It's being called a gem for readers.
[3:14]Will you just start with telling us the how and the why behind this book and how you came to write it?
[3:19]Absolutely.
[3:20]So like so many books that are coming out this year, this book was written during the pandemic.
[3:25]So March of 2020, my daughter was sent home from school because she was a junior in college.
[3:30]And she actually brought her just added so much to our household.
[3:34]She was really such a blessing for our whole family because families were a lot in the pandemic.
[3:41]She was sort of our buffer.
[3:42]She brought all of us together.
[3:44]And it was a really wonderful experience having her.
[3:47]Having her in my daughter home added to the female energy of the house.
[3:50]We were talking about what the young women at the table were studying in college because they were in the middle of their college.
[3:57]About different issues that they were facing in school, issues that they were concerned about, you know, entering the working world.
[4:03]And we were binge watching a show called Indian Matchmaking TV on Netflix.
[4:09]And my daughter's roommate said, you know, my grandmother used to be an Orthodox Jewish matchmaker.
[4:15]And there was actually a New York Times article when she told me that something just sort of clicked in my head.
[4:21]And I thought, you know, wouldn't it be nice to write a sort of lighter story about women and about a matchmaker in her granddaughter.
[4:29]But, you know, the sort of inspiration came from that.
[4:32]And that was those were the first seeds of the story.
[4:35]As there were a lot of that to be made, tone and era and all of that.
[4:40]But that was that was the beginning of it.
[4:42]What was her reaction when you asked her, how did she feel about that?
[4:45]She was excited about it.
[4:47]You know, I said, I'm kind of thinking this would be a great story.
[4:51]What if I said write it?
[4:53]She was just, she was excited, you know.
[4:56]She was a philosophy major.
[4:58]So that's amazing.
[4:59]And she's just, she's a great thinker, you know.
[5:03]And so just being creative with them.
[5:05]So I think she was really excited about that.
[5:08]What an exciting pandemic quarantine for her.
[5:10]She comes home with her friend.
[5:11]And then her friend's mother is this beloved author who ended writing a book about her inspired by her, inspired by her.
[5:18]So my daughter was home with her boyfriend and with her roommate with a doll.
[5:22]So it was, you know, the three of them all came to visit.
[5:24]She's like our bonus child.
[5:26]You know, she's like our bonus daughter.
[5:28]So it's very special and I dedicate the book to them, to the two young women.
[5:33]Because they were, it was just, they really made the pandemic special for all of us.
[5:38]I'll say so for all of us, for all your readers who get the book as a result, this unexpected windfall in your quarantine.
[5:44]You're very sweet.
[5:46]So, so, so, so, so how early in the process did you let Adele read the book then or draft of the book or has she read it yet?
[5:52]Yeah.
[5:53]She actually so.
[5:54]Adele is fluent in Yiddish.
[5:56]So she had the Yiddish knowledge.
[5:59]So she helped me with phrases and, and she comes from a religious home.
[6:05]So she was able to help me with a lot of different, you know, a lot of different tips.
[6:10]Although I had so many people helping me with research.
[6:12]And this, that was one of the really nice things about this book, you know, someone even from my law school to tell me that her PhD thesis had some relevant things about it.
[6:23]Because she was writing about marriage and divorce in the 1800s.
[6:28]Like people sort of chipped in from a lot of different places to offer me their insight like a community effort in certain ways, which was really nice.
[6:39]Oh, it was the book that you were meant to write in this moment that was meant to be written by you.
[6:45]That's so beautiful.
[6:46]Yeah, I feel that way. I feel like, you know, my other two books were much more dark, but they were much more serious.
[6:54]And this book has a joy to it.
[6:57]And it seems very strange to say I wrote my most joyful, most dark of our sort of collective shared history with the pandemic with so many people suffering.
[7:07]But I did find that big people have responded to that now because now that we're coming out of that people, I think, light and searching for some joy.
[7:17]So that makes me feel good.
[7:19]Yeah, because it's full of love and it's full of relationships and family dynamics.
[7:23]And one thing Linda, I will say that you so clearly poured into this book and that you have such a gift for.
[7:30]I find that you are sort of on your own level when it comes to this is character development and just world building with your characters. Linda, they jump off the page.
[7:43]You just imbue them with such life and spirit and individuality.
[7:48]And as you said, this in particular is sort of a grandmother, a grandmother granddaughter tale, but can you talk about how you build your characters and how you build your world, because you just make them such a rich experience for the reader.
[8:03]Sure. Thank you. That's so nice coming from you, because I admire everything that you do with your character.
[8:10]For me, I really, I'm a very slow writer.
[8:13]This book was actually the fastest I've ever written about.
[8:16]No, I get characters for a long time.
[8:19]And I need to really get to know them.
[8:25]And that makes them real.
[8:27]So I know some people have sort of exercises they do.
[8:30]You know, if you take a writing class, they'll say right from your to their mother or whatever, whatever kinds of things.
[8:37]I don't do things like that, but I, especially with this.
[8:42]And I sort of say good night to my husband and then I turn on my side and I think about my characters.
[8:48]And I fall asleep about them one minute.
[8:51]I mean, not all the time.
[8:52]But when I'm really in the middle of drafting and I'm really in the middle of developing who they are, that's what happens.
[8:59]You think of them all day long, because you know, we all have flies and things that we have to do.
[9:03]But I do go to this sort of time.
[9:07]And I stay up for a while kind of thinking about them.
[9:11]And it's a constant what if, you know, what would they do in this situation and what if this.
[9:15]And it really sink into them.
[9:17]So I think maybe that's part of it.
[9:19]They're really in my, and I guess I probably dream about them even though I don't remember those dreams.
[9:25]But they're, they're the last thing I think about, you know, before I go to sleep when I'm especially with this book.
[9:31]is because we don't know where doctors go.
[9:34]And there was no other stimulation really, right?
[9:37]Like it wasn't like you had those stimulating.
[9:40]I don't know anecdotal moments with strangers that we all sort of create during the pandemic, right?
[9:48]Like just seeing street things or just saying something somebody at the grocery store or a little small act of kindness of holding a door open for someone.
[9:56]All those things that make us part of the community.
[10:00]we're lacking. And so my community, especially at that time, were these characters in my head
[10:05]and I was having my little interactions with them. Yeah. And you lived with them and they became
[10:10]a part of the fabric of your subconscious and maybe that's why they feel so deep and rich
[10:15]with their own flesh and subconscious identities as well. Well, you did an amazing job. One of the
[10:20]things you joke about in your author's note, but also that the characters in your book talk
[10:26]about is that for a lot of us, the primary and only concept we have of a matchmaker is this
[10:33]yenta sort of inspired by Fiddler on the roof. And then your character is, your characters are
[10:38]talking about sort of a very different take on this matchmaker. Can you talk a little bit about how
[10:43]you sort of dealt with that as well and how you flushed it out for your characters of Sarah and
[10:47]Abby with the book? Yeah. So, so as I was saying, you know, when the girls came home, we were talking
[10:53]about women's issue. That was in a lot when I was writing this book. So, which sounds strange,
[10:58]but it was, it's sort of like a, there were that whole other layer that I was thinking about when
[11:04]I was writing it. So, yes, it's a story about a matchmaker and yes, it's a story about love and
[11:08]finding love and soulmates. But there's a layer that I feel like is really relevant to working
[11:14]women today because here is this young woman and she is, you know, the book starts at night
[11:20]and she's 10 years old. And what I found during my research was that there were like hundreds and
[11:27]hundreds of zoos in this event. And in the um, the Lower East Side, just alone, hundreds and
[11:31]hundreds. And this was like according to the New York Times and other source art of New York Times,
[11:36]which you wouldn't think would be writing about Lower East Side immigrant matchmakers,
[11:40]but they were. So, when I was researching and when I was trying to decide what era the grandmother
[11:45]would live in and what era the granddaughter would live in, I had thought in the face, you know,
[11:51]it was going to be like a Mrs. Maisel sort of vibe, right? But when I started researching and I
[11:56]found this earlier era, it only came rich and so fascinating to me. So, at that time,
[12:02]most of the matchmakers were meant. They weren't only men, they women were allowed to do it.
[12:07]So, these religious modesty rules. And I talked to modern day matchmakers too, and it still
[12:14]is the case because you're not allowed to be a matchmaker if you're not married. You don't know
[12:18]about marriage. And there's also this modesty going out with, you know, an unmarried woman hanging
[12:24]out with an unmarried man like what could happen, right? So, you can't be an unmarried man. So,
[12:30]that was something that was fascinating to me because of course, if I have this young woman
[12:35]doing this who isn't married and maybe doesn't even want to be married. And then I also found,
[12:40]not in the US, but I found an article about a matchmaker's union in Poland. So, of course,
[12:45]in mind, then if there's a magnum, you know, it's fiction. I can sort of create this
[12:51]cabal of matchmaking men, right, on the lower side who are going to be very annoyed that this
[12:57]young woman who is unmarried is flouting, you know, flying in the face of their tradition
[13:03]because she's making these love matches. And she's going to have to fight against all of that.
[13:08]So, that's the feminist sort of, which I do think is completely different from the young
[13:13]death, from a filler on the roof, from all of that. You know, it's a very, very different
[13:17]vibe from those sort of traditional matchmaking tropes that you think about.
[13:23]Yeah. And that we all think about probably. So, what is your process like? And, you know,
[13:28]if such a thing exists, what is your typical day like as a writer? What does it sort of look
[13:32]like behind the veil in the life of Linda, the author? It really depends where I am with a book,
[13:40]because I'm sure it does for you. You know, like, there are days I try to write and when I sit
[13:46]right every day, it doesn't always mean sitting and writing. Sometimes it's just outlining
[13:51]or researching or thinking, you know, just sitting and kind of thinking and figuring out a
[13:57]plot point, just sitting with my story. But I find that if I'm away from a story for
[14:03]takes the reinsert myself. So, I don't really like too many days to go by without
[14:09]having a touch point, having a connection to the word, because then I get a little bit lost.
[14:15]So, I like to be in it as long as much as I can. With the matchmaker, I wrote it from,
[14:20]like September to April, and then it was done. And so, that was just crazy vast. But again,
[14:27]we were trapped at home. It wasn't going anywhere. So, it came quickly. But my kids are older.
[14:34]So, I have time. You know, you have young children physically are exhausting. I have older
[14:41]children. It's a very different thing. I have a lot more time than my day. Yeah, absolutely.
[14:47]So then, are you looking forward to sort of in the post pandemic sort of ish era,
[14:52]you're going to be able to go out and be with readers and do in-person events and actually
[14:56]like, yeah. And so, yeah. I am so excited about that. Yeah. I have a real mix of virtual events
[15:03]and in-personists. So, I think, but I am so excited to talk to readers and to be in-person. There's
[15:11]an energy that comes back that you can't get on the screen. Absolutely. As you know, you know, you just
[15:16]have your book come out. And so, you know that it should be able to book for someone and hand it
[15:24]to them. You know, that's a special connection that you have. And virtual events have been
[15:29]very robust through. And I do think that there will always be a place for them now because so many
[15:34]people can't leave their home or they're far away and get to, you know, touch a reader's hand.
[15:41]You know, just be with people. Yeah. Yeah. So, Linda, there's, there's some magic in this book.
[15:47]I mean, you're writing, but also in the way the book sort of takes shape and for the characters.
[15:52]And I loved how you handled that because it was so beautiful and so delicate. Can you talk a
[16:00]little bit about that and sort of the suspension of disbelief that you're taking readers on this
[16:05]journey and how you decided to deal with the magic of what the matchmaker's gift actually is?
[16:13]Sure. That's such a good question. I have always loved books with a touch of magic.
[16:18]Owls Hoffman is a huge owls hom fan. I love sort of, I don't even know what you would categorize.
[16:24]I guess historical fantasy is really the god, which was just a fantastic
[16:29]history, you know, so much rich history. But then you add in a magical element. And so I've never,
[16:36]I had never done it before. And I was nervous about, even about how my editor, my publisher might
[16:45]receive it because, you know, changing still historical fiction, but adding that element was
[16:52]something really new for me. And, but it just felt, I just knew immediately what it would be.
[16:58]I knew what it would like to struggle with how to describe it properly. That was probably
[17:05]the part of the story that, you know, you have a day where you write a thousand words or
[17:09]two thousand words, you have a day where you have an answer. And so were the days when I was
[17:15]being sentences, when I was sitting and staring at my screen and writing a sentence and coming
[17:20]away and just coming back and deleting it. So, you know, trying to figure out, because in my head,
[17:27]I could see it. But I couldn't, it took a lot for me to describe it in a way in that way,
[17:32]where I felt like somebody else could be in. So, that, that was a painstaking process. But I,
[17:40]I just love, I just love a good old-fashioned story. You see this. That's a little bit.
[17:47]It might have taken days to get the sentences down, but you nailed it. How did your editor feel?
[17:52]How, how would the publisher's response come across? He was really happy with it. I think,
[17:57]yeah, she was really happy. When I read her editorial letter, I cried. I just, she wrote an
[18:03]editorial letter, you know, when she, when I sent her the draft and she's, she's so smart, I can't
[18:10]say Martin's and she's so smart. And she's so, she's just so in touch with words. And she's such
[18:16]a lover of words, which I appreciate so much. And she just wrote a very beautiful editorial letter.
[18:23]And I just cried about so soon. You know, that feeling of really feeling like someone understands
[18:31]what you're trying to do with your words is just, I mean, there's nothing more satisfying than that
[18:39]as a writer to feel that. So, that's how I felt in that letter. I'm not thinking about it. Like,
[18:45]I just, it was such a great day. Like, you know, I mean, when you, when you set out to the,
[18:52]when it's a book, you don't really know when you start what you're setting out to accomplish,
[18:56]right? And then as you write it, you, you come up with your themes and you lay it and you come
[19:02]up with what it is that you really want. What, what, what do you really driving at? And when someone
[19:08]sees that and writes you a letter to say, I saw what I did here. It's so special. So you and she are
[19:16]perfect match then to use your books as inspiration sounds like. He just really, yeah. That was
[19:25]special. Great. So what, what's something you find challenging about the whole publishing process as a
[19:30]writer? One thing. Well, I think, yeah, I have a really, you know, you never, you know, this too
[19:38]as a writer, you want to build readers to build your, just your, your writing life, you know,
[19:47]you want to expand it. You want to, but sometimes to do that, you have to stay in one lane and staying
[19:55]in one lane is really hard for me. It's very difficult. Like this story.
[20:00]You know, it's his full, but like, I went a little bit, you know, into magical realism and I have I'm constantly getting
[20:08]I thought of spots too many thoughts and I have so many thoughts for stories and sort of when I
[20:14]Sign up or when I covered this book. I had another book that I was working on too
[20:18]And I thought that would be the fourth book, but then I realized that fourth book
[20:23]That's not a good fourth book to follow and I want to do this kind of thing again
[20:28]I want to have a little bit of a touch of magical realism again
[20:32]So it's kind of
[20:34]They're always sort of shifting slightly or I am always shifting slightly and trying to keep my focus
[20:41]I'm thinking that going to be satisfying to readers for the next, you know, and so
[20:47]You can't I mean, I guess I could like get on right now
[20:51]Just what I
[20:53]You have to sort of slowly figure out what direction you're going in
[20:57]So that is challenging for me to keep myself on track
[21:01]And to find the book that's the right book to follow each
[21:05]But hmm, so
[21:07]How much can you how much can you tell us about what's coming next?
[21:12]The next book is really it's very fun. I think if people like the matchmakers go after they will like next
[21:19]It's inspired by my husband's great grandmother who was a pharmacist
[21:23]She graduated from pharmacy school in 1912, which is so cool to think about a woman doing that
[21:28]So it it's a young female pharmacist
[21:32]And there may or may not be some magical chicken soup
[21:35]They're you know, there's a little bit of yeah, it's sort of her father's a pharmacist
[21:41]Her great emora of you know
[21:44]Sort of old-world remedies for things that
[21:48]You know, so it's sort of the struggle between that and it's it's a very it's a really fun story
[21:53]It's also historical. This one is going to take me back to Brooklyn
[21:57]So
[22:04]So beautiful so beautiful. It was you who told me that
[22:07]Chicken noodle soup when your sick is called Jewish penicillin, right?
[22:13]Yeah, I was thinking about that and
[22:16]that idea of
[22:18]Sin just I don't know. I've always heard the stories of my husband's great grandmother
[22:23]She actually she practiced like well into her he's talking her certificates
[22:29]So that it looked like she was younger than she was
[22:32]So that element is kind of in my story too because that seems to be dangerous, but you know, I guess she got away with it
[22:39]Amazing
[22:41]My name is
[22:43]My name is Jeff, but people called her Goldie and so the character in the story has the same name which is really nice
[22:49]We will look forward to that Linda. What piece of advice would you give to an aspiring writer?
[22:56]Writing really you really have to just keep writing. I mean you can't stop and you can't quit when I
[23:04]It's for Sarah Lawrence College in the writers institute and one of the things that
[23:10]It was more like a workshop than really in the pages and sat around the table and read it to each other and one of the things that the
[23:17]Professor would say or someone I'm pretty sure he's at it the difference between
[23:23]I published author and just someone who
[23:26]Rights for their own enjoyment. It's just that you just that you don't get
[23:32]Can you keep trying and you keep submitting and submitting and trying?
[23:36]There are so many stories of so many people
[23:39]So reductions, you know
[23:41]and then one day something hits and
[23:44]Somebody sees what they're doing. My editor saw that she really saw what I was trying to do
[23:49]You just hope that there will be someone who will see what you are trying to do and appreciate it. It's just sort of fun
[23:55]Absolutely
[23:57]What is one thing that you want readers to take away from this book or to take away from speaking with them now
[24:05]You know, what is something that you really feel like you're putting out into the world with this book and with these characters?
[24:11]There's a lot of joy, you know, there there is a lot of joy. I hope people feel that when they're going
[24:17]There's also just this sense of
[24:19]of tradition of passing something on of feeling connected to the past and connected people in our past and
[24:29]They give no matter what they are, you know, they gift in this book as a literal a literal talent
[24:34]The idea that there are so many gifts that those and you know that our ancestors that especially our grandmothers
[24:42]are female ancestors asked to us whether
[24:46]You know, whatever they might be, whatever traits, whatever
[24:49]What words of wisdom, whatever lessons that they
[24:52]Get asked out to sort of all things and take connect to them
[24:55]But I think I think the joy is really a big part of it
[24:59]And just it's sort of the same way when I say that the whole sort of
[25:04]feminist loss line of Sarah's career and what she endures very relevant to today
[25:11]So two are just all of I think that's something that people who said the past is so relevant. It's always
[25:19]What are our grandmothers? What are what the people before us went through?
[25:23]So it's that sort of tapestry that that I hope people kind of walk away with
[25:29]So beautifully said not surprisingly coming from you
[25:33]Linda Cohen, Loghman author of the matchmaker's gift and speaking of connection
[25:39]How can readers connect with you? Can you share your website and your social media and anything we should know about?
[25:46]I'm I'm all over the place. I get
[25:50]That's just my full name.com Linda Cohen, Lloydman.com
[25:53]And on Instagram Lloydman is a really strange if you just like
[25:58]Google Lloydman and me ever you know because there aren't very many Lloydman
[26:02]I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter. Linda. See Lloydman. I think is the
[26:07]One different Lloydman on Instagram and on Facebook. It's Linda Lloydman. Let me go on hookman author
[26:13]And I love to see follow me and I'll be announcing all the
[26:18]Different events virtual and in person
[26:23]Amazing amazing. Well, the book again is the matchmaker's gift by Linda Cohen, Loghman
[26:29]Such a beautiful book being called a gem by Kate Quinn
[26:34]Really it is. It's a gift to readers. As you said, it's just a beautiful joyful magical
[26:39]historic experience of family and love and life and womanhood and friendship and
[26:45]Thank you so much for giving it to us all to enjoy and savor Linda and congratulations again
[26:52]Thank you so much for speaking with me and being such a thoughtful reader and thoughtful
[26:58]Ask her. I appreciate it. It is I who thinks you so thank you Linda the matchmaker's gift
[27:05]A beautiful book and we know this will be one that readers will be savoring until the next one comes along Linda
[27:12]Thanks again
[27:17]Thanks for listening to this episode of mom's don't have time to read books
[27:20]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at mom's don't have time to read books
[27:26]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[27:32]Every other week
[27:32]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this
[27:39]Fantastic intro and now trim music