Jonathan Galassi, SCHOOL DAYS: A Novel
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[1:13]Jonathan Galassie is the author of School Days, a novel.
[1:16]He is the chairman of For Our Strauss and Jerome.
[1:19]He is a former poetry editor for the Paris Review, a former chairman of the Academy of American
[1:24]Poets, and the recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship for Poetry.
[1:27]His poems and essays have appeared in the New Yorker, New York Review of Books,
[1:30]three pen and review in the nation.
[1:32]He has published three books of poetry and translations of the poetry of Eugenio Montali,
[1:37]Giacomo Leopardi, and Primo Levie.
[1:39]His first novel muse was published in 2015.
[1:43]Welcome, Jonathan.
[1:44]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:45]On mom's, don't have time to read books to discuss School Days.
[1:48]Thank you so much.
[1:49]I'm thrilled that you're here to talk with me.
[1:53]Would you mind telling listeners what your book is about?
[2:00]My book is about a boarding school and one of the old fashioned historic boarding schools
[2:09]and about the life of the students there back in the 60s when it was still all boys.
[2:18]And then you see the school evolve over time.
[2:23]And it's about the teachers at the school too and the kind of sacrifices they made and
[2:32]how would you say the issues that they face in their life there?
[2:36]I really, I found it fascinating, not only getting to know the teachers, but hearing about all the
[2:42]different boys and you really developed so many different characters and then watching as they
[2:47]develop over time, kind of getting the flash forward, if you will, when we get to revisit
[2:51]them again at the end, which is so interesting.
[2:53]I always love that kind of satisfaction that comes with like, but wait, what happens after
[2:58]this part of the story?
[2:59]I always love that ending of a book with this.
[3:03]So and so got divorced, so on.
[3:05]So Mary, yeah, since it's always very, it shows that the book has a life that continues after
[3:12]the pages, right?
[3:13]Same in the movies, you know, when they say something like in the type after seven years later,
[3:20]but anyway, so thank you for that.
[3:22]The book was really layered with, you know, almost a coming of age tail, but also
[3:28]a sort of awakening of sexuality and how, how a bunch of different boys handled their feelings
[3:35]for each other, for women versus men, what they could express, what they fell into, how the
[3:42]teachers played into it, and then what they did with that information, because everybody
[3:47]handled it a little bit differently, tell me more about all of that and the way that, you know,
[3:53]the sexuality sort of is like the backdrop, like this umbrella that's hanging over the whole thing.
[4:00]Well, it's about adolescents, right?
[4:02]And adolescents are pretty much the same today as they always have been, but the circumstances of
[4:09]of, in those days, boys and girls often were sent off to single sex schools, and they were often
[4:20]sort of dropped there in September and picked up in a June, not quite literally, but there was
[4:27]a lot less involvement on the point of the, from the point of view of the parents, there were no
[4:34]cell phones, no helicopter parents, there was, so there it was a sort of world to itself, this
[4:42]society of young boys who are having all sorts of sexual experiences, not necessarily with
[4:50]each other, but they're growing into their sexuality and around them are, it's basically an all-boys
[4:59]society. So there are various, the story shows the different boys having different reactions to
[5:07]that, they have girlfriends at home, they have girlfriends at the town, they have crushes on each
[5:12]other, that's, that's set her up. And I think it's a pretty accurate depiction of actually how
[5:19]kids at that age experience the need for closeness.
[5:23]Interesting. There, this has been in the news a lot lately from different board new schools,
[5:29]sort of one after the next coming out with not just boarding school either, but mostly
[5:34]what happens, I mean, the relationships between teachers and students, there's always been some
[5:39]mystery around that. And there's, I feel like there's a scandal in many schools related to those
[5:44]dynamics. What was the timing of your deciding to write a book about this in relation to,
[5:49]like was it inspired by real events going on or as you were writing it where you're just like,
[5:53]oh my gosh, again and again and again, like how did it happen?
[5:57]Well, that, that was certainly a factor in that a lot of, how would you say things came out in the
[6:05]news about some of these schools about where teachers had taken advantage of students or
[6:12]had relationships with them. And the schools in the old days had covered the, covered this up.
[6:19]And so there was a lot of people testifying. It's a little bit related to what's been going on in
[6:27]the church, of course, it was a very similar thing where scones of silence were kind of
[6:35]breached and, and all of a sudden, there was a vision of what really went on. It's really,
[6:43]I actually think it's about power, you know, that, that teachers are in the, they're in the local,
[6:49]in local parenthesis position, but they also have, they're looked up to by the kids and they need
[6:56]the, some of them need the approbation and adoration of of kids. And of course, that's probably
[7:04]based on their own unhappy backgrounds or character defects. So, but all these things play into
[7:14]how the teacher student relationship is experienced in various different ways. And one of the
[7:23]paradoxes that I wanted to get into in the book is, how could someone be a great teacher
[7:30]and also have an inappropriate attachment to another kid. And that, that's, that's one of the paradoxes
[7:39]of, of the teaching relationship. I mean, you see in the, in the book, just like you see the boys
[7:46]have, having different relations. You see teachers having different ways of relating to students.
[7:52]Some of them are totally wonderful parental figures, very loving, trustworthy with the sense
[8:00]of boundaries and other, others are, there are few who have boundary issues. And we see,
[8:09]we see those different varieties. And we even see teachers who might have homosexual feelings
[8:17]but don't let those interfere with their teaching functions. And there are all sorts of varieties
[8:23]of, of people just like in life. People have different needs, different moral codes, different ways
[8:32]of experiencing that pedagogical, current, quasi parental relationship. I love the one field trip they
[8:41]went on to MoMA in New York City, the Museum of Modern Art in New York City and how two of the boys
[8:46]I always forget everybody's names, but how two of the boys weren't just like so cultured and
[8:50]blazay about it and could like rattle off the name of all the artists. And it was Sam, right? He was
[8:54]just like dough-eyed looking around. Like, this is the most amazing thing ever. Sam was the,
[9:00]he's sort of the asian noodle. And he's less sophisticated than some of the other kids.
[9:06]Because he's the one who ends up being the teacher himself. And his, and he's kind of the
[9:12]consciousness around which the book is organized. He watches all these things happen. He watches
[9:21]teachers. He's not really a doer himself. He's a watcher. Yeah. And the storyteller.
[9:29]Can you tell me more about your just to get off the book for one second? Like about your
[9:35]story career and publishing? Well, I mean, I went to one of these schools and I decided afterwards
[9:44]that I didn't want to be an academic. I did love teaching. I had done some teaching, but I didn't
[9:51]go that direction. I decided to become an editor. And in a way, an editor is like a teacher,
[9:58]sort of constantly.
[10:00]people helping them to be the best they can be, et cetera.
[10:04]And that turned out to be a very rewarding profession for me
[10:08]and I've done it for all my life really.
[10:11]So, you know, I've spent a lot of time with writers
[10:16]who some of them are really great writers
[10:19]and it's amazing to see what goes into making a great book.
[10:25]What do you think goes into making a great book?
[10:27]Well, it starts out with the character of the writer
[10:32]and their gift for expression, you know,
[10:35]is sort of mixing of talent and character, I think.
[10:42]So, it's, I mean, that's sort of what you see in the book too.
[10:46]How do people blend their character with their personality,
[10:50]you know, and their morals and their, so that's,
[10:54]I think that's how everything works in life.
[10:57]You know, something sort of self-restraint
[11:00]and also being able to access your,
[11:04]what you think and feel.
[11:06]That's what writers really, they have the gift of access.
[11:10]So, you know that, that's a writer to you.
[11:13]I haven't heard it said like that before,
[11:14]and that's interesting.
[11:15]But you have access to your deep feelings,
[11:19]your convictions, and that's what drives you
[11:22]to try to put it down on paper.
[11:25]Yes.
[11:26]I said this recently, but my husband was asking me
[11:31]if I was gonna write another memoir,
[11:32]and I was like, well, I've kind of not like a sweeping
[11:35]about my life thing, but maybe on a particular topic
[11:38]or something.
[11:39]I was like, I could probably write one about our dog Naya.
[11:41]This is like the day before I adopted a puppy.
[11:43]But anyway, I was like, I could probably write it about Naya.
[11:46]And he's like, that's what's so crazy.
[11:47]Like, you could write a whole book about Naya.
[11:50]And if somebody asked me, how's everything going with Naya?
[11:53]I'd be like, pretty good.
[11:54]Yeah, right.
[11:56]Well, that's why you're the writer.
[11:57]It is not.
[11:59]I mean, he's wonderful.
[12:00]He's super sensitive and awesome,
[12:02]but he's not a writer.
[12:03]Yeah, it's funny.
[12:05]It's funny.
[12:05]It's just not everyone is.
[12:07]It's just something that, I mean, you could probably
[12:14]tell us about experiences you had that led you
[12:17]to be a writer, things that happen, maybe when you're a kid,
[12:21]ways, somehow you were rewarded by expression in one way.
[12:27]And that's sort of what's led you to do what you're doing.
[12:31]Do you think?
[12:33]Yeah, I do.
[12:34]In fact, so many of the authors I interview
[12:36]credit someone early on for recognizing talent often
[12:41]a teacher.
[12:42]But there's somebody who says, wow, you really got something here.
[12:45]And that can change their entire life.
[12:48]Well, that's why you see that in the book,
[12:50]where the teacher knows what to say to the kid
[12:56]to encourage them to move ahead.
[13:02]There's one thing in the book that actually
[13:04]came out of my own life where the teacher says, well,
[13:09]you're not going to be a lawyer.
[13:10]You've done all the things to do in life.
[13:13]And that did happen to me.
[13:15]It was very liberating instead of doing what my father wanted
[13:19]me to do.
[13:20]I got to decide what I wanted to do.
[13:23]And then the teacher was one who gave me permission.
[13:27]And I think that's often true with writing
[13:30]to they identify a gift or a direction.
[13:36]That's sort of the teacher's job in a way.
[13:40]But you're the teacher and the student in this equation.
[13:44]Yeah, I mean, well, students become teachers.
[13:48]Certain students become teachers.
[13:50]Because they were inspired by the teachers.
[13:56]And that's part of the story, too.
[13:58]It's like, it's something that's handed off from one
[14:02]generation to another.
[14:04]I mean, your book also touched a lot on loyalty.
[14:08]I feel like loyalty, even in the Sam and Ann,
[14:12]I think it was Ann's marriage, loyalty
[14:15]with some of the friendships with two of the teachers.
[14:18]Between people who worked at the school and keeping secrets.
[14:21]And I mean, loyalty plays such a big role.
[14:24]I don't know.
[14:25]That was kind of a tangent, but it does.
[14:28]It's just, yeah.
[14:29]Because loyalty is a representation of mutual understanding.
[14:36]Interesting.
[14:37]Oh, I love it.
[14:38]You must get asked this all the time.
[14:40]But for writers who were starting out,
[14:43]I mean, going back to what we were saying about talent
[14:45]and mentorship and all this, like, sometimes people,
[14:49]and I am no expert at all.
[14:50]But I do say, like, it might be useful to find out
[14:54]if you are good at it, because so many people love doing it,
[14:58]but get some impartial opinion of something.
[15:02]You just need someone to vet it before you dedicate,
[15:06]endless time.
[15:07]Do you agree with that or?
[15:08]I mean, yes, I do, but the fact is very few people
[15:14]are born great writers.
[15:15]They, there's a lot of 99% perspiration to the 1% inspiration.
[15:24]It's not really that proportion, but you can start out with,
[15:28]I mean, I think a really great writer
[15:31]has something from the very beginning that they,
[15:35]but you can turn out to be a very good writer
[15:39]by just applying yourself and keep it going.
[15:43]But, yes, at a certain point, you need some sort of feedback
[15:49]about whether this is a good way of spending your time or not.
[15:54]So, and you have to be honest with yourself, too.
[15:58]You have to not be too hard on yourself.
[16:01]But if you're a writer, one thing you should be doing
[16:05]a lot of is reading, reading other people and saying,
[16:08]well, does that sound like something
[16:10]that could have come out of me?
[16:13]Is there a sub correlation between how
[16:18]what you love to read and what you're trying to write?
[16:21]I'll take that.
[16:22]Very true.
[16:23]Yeah.
[16:24]So, what are you reading now?
[16:25]One of my reading right now, I'm reading victory
[16:28]by Joseph Conrad, which I've never read before.
[16:32]But one thing in the book, you see Sam, the teacher,
[16:38]reading poems with a student, sort of getting,
[16:42]and doctorating the student on how to think about writing
[16:47]through reading these short texts.
[16:50]And that, I think that's what it's all about, really.
[16:53]It's just getting the really read.
[16:55]If you really read closely, if you really
[16:57]see what's going on, that can liberate you in your own writer.
[17:03]Yeah.
[17:04]Do you have another book, any other book coming or anything?
[17:08]I am working on something.
[17:10]It's a poetry thing.
[17:12]But I would like to write another novel, I think,
[17:15]or a memoir.
[17:17]I like what you've done.
[17:18]And I think, I just don't know.
[17:21]I will definitely write something else.
[17:23]I've written two novels now.
[17:25]And there is something you can do in prose
[17:29]that you can't do in poetry.
[17:31]So I really, I found it very, very fascinating
[17:36]to do the work.
[17:38]So.
[17:39]Oh, that is interesting.
[17:41]This working in words, we're old.
[17:44]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[17:46]Well, you obviously enjoy it.
[17:47]Oh, my gosh, I love it.
[17:49]I love to read.
[17:50]I love to write, but I love to read.
[17:52]What are you reading right now?
[17:54]Well, I just finished Tom Furt,
[17:57]well, aside from your book, Tom Furt,
[17:58]I was Tracy quick at win, because I
[18:01]had him on earlier today.
[18:03]And what am I going to read for tomorrow?
[18:05]I have to look in my calendar.
[18:06]I've structured it so that my calendar is my reading list.
[18:09]And I don't have to ever debate.
[18:11]How many of these do you do in a day?
[18:14]In a day, I do between age to 12 a week.
[18:17]Really?
[18:18]But I take some weeks off.
[18:21]I try to.
[18:21]So then I have to double up other weeks.
[18:23]But on average, I usually do about two to three a day.
[18:26]Wow, that's incredible.
[18:28]That's really, that was great.
[18:29]Great fun.
[18:30]Oh my gosh, I learned so much.
[18:32]I'm constantly learning.
[18:34]And it's like being in the best English class forever.
[18:39]Well, you're lucky that you found that as a way of pursuing
[18:44]your interests in such a deep way.
[18:47]Yeah, it's been great.
[18:48]It's been such a gift.
[18:50]And I guess we feel like, yeah, which is really good, thank you.
[18:53]Yes, it's really fun.
[18:57]Well, thank you so much, then thank you for coming on.
[19:02]You too.
[19:03]All right, take care.
[19:04]Bye.
[19:06]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[19:08]Don't have time to read books.
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