Nora McInerny, BAD VIBES ONLY: (and Other Things I Bring to the Table)
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.
[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,
[0:18]their book, their life, and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir,
[0:28]bookends, a memoir of love, loss, and literature, wherever books are sold starting July 1st, and my children's book prints is charming.
[0:36]You can learn more about me at Zivi Owens.com, but really you're here to learn more about the authors and that is what we're going to do.
[0:43]Also be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Zcast podcast network.
[0:48]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.
[0:58]I hope you'll all check out the all-new Zivi bag, Z-I-B-B-Y-M-A-G, the literary lifestyle destination with essays, book news, a lit lifestyle feature, and even some classes.
[1:11]Check it out zivibag.com.
[1:13]Norin McInerney is back on this podcast for her new book, Bad Vibes Only, and other things I bring to the table.
[1:20]Norin was voted most humorous by the enunciation Catholic school class of 1997.
[1:26]Since then, she's written the bestselling memoirs It's OK to Laugh, crying is cool too, and no happy endings, as well as the hot young widow's club and bad moms.
[1:35]She hosts the award-winning podcast, terrible, thanks for asking, and has spoken on Ted's main stage.
[1:40]She's contributed to publications like The New York Times, Time, Slate, and Vox. She's very tall.
[1:46]All right, welcome Nora. Thank you so much for coming back on Moms Don't Have Time to read books to discuss Bad Vibes Only and other things I bring to the table essays.
[1:55]Yes, and I bring very little else to the table. People should know this.
[2:00]It's just all the books. That doesn't mean over for a literal meal. I will intend to bring you a hostess gift, and then I will forget it at home.
[2:10]So I will literally come to the table. I have to hand it, I just will.
[2:14]But the thought is there, so that's the thought is there, the thought is there, and hopefully it's the thought that counts, because I have so many of them.
[2:21]So many thoughts. That's great. That's all you need.
[2:24]So tell listeners about this latest collection.
[2:27]So this is my first book of essays, and essay is kind of how I started writing in my whatever I would call my writing career, sort of began in the early 2010s.
[2:40]And so if listeners can take a trip back in time with me, the early 2010s were such an interesting time on the internet.
[2:48]We were all on one algorithm. So there was just like one kind of thing could go viral at once.
[2:55]And all of these websites were popping up. Exo Jane, hello giggles.
[3:00]All these websites and a thousand others like them that were geared towards women age 25 to 34, and they were almost all first person essays.
[3:11]And while I did not get paid hardly anything to write those pieces, I was really good at it. I was really good at it. I'd wanted to be a writer since I was a little kid.
[3:22]My dad always told me the good writers write what they know, which is the tragedy when you don't know anything.
[3:27]You know, when it gets a tragedy to hear that when you're nine years old big, but I don't even know long division.
[3:32]Like what am I going to write about, but you know what every person knows, Libby, you know this, like every person knows their own story, every person knows their own story.
[3:42]And I loved writing things that were seemingly about things that were seemingly unimportant, you know, like in 2010 to write a piece that said our leggings pants, this writer thinks yes.
[3:55]That was a bold, it was a strong opinion. And Gen Z, you were walking around in their little lulu lemon leggings with a crop top. You have me to think, you've me to think for paving the way to believing that those were actually pants and not a layering piece, which they were in 2010.
[4:14]They have written this is my fifth book. Most of my books are in memoir and most of my books are, you know, wrestling with the fact digesting, picking apart like the biggest story of my life.
[4:27]Everybody has like a main story of their life, everybody. And if you're to ask anybody like so what's your deal right they'll tell you and they can probably listed off in bullet points.
[4:35]I tell you what their story is and for since 2014 my story has been that in 2014 my dad died, my husband died and I lost a pregnancy in like a six or seven weeks span of time.
[4:47]And that those are life altering losses if you even have one of them all of mine happened at once. And most of the books that I've written have been figuring out what all that meant, which is not nothing.
[5:03]But like what it means to build a life in the wake of those and bad vibes only is a collection of essays exploring all of the other things that make up a person's life story.
[5:15]All of the other thoughts and situations that add up to who a person is, especially when that person me is knocking on the door of 40 years of age.
[5:27]You know, sliding feet first into middle age. And what happens at this age like you really really cannot help but look back.
[5:36]Like look back and pull apart like these different situations that have contributed to who you were and trust me since I was a little kid.
[5:44]obsessed with my parents dying. I have always had bad vibes. I've always been a somewhat off putting a weirdo, you know, and that is not the narrative. You shouldn't I mean, no, you know, I've always been a person who's like, yeah, I don't know, I don't know guys.
[6:08]Oh, so I wanted to write about all this stuff. I wonder right about all of this stuff that isn't, you know, simply like grief and loss, but you know, explores grief and loss through other things like the realization that like your life is finite that those former selves who were sort of like clipped at the vine still exist somewhere.
[6:31]So it was a lot of fun to write. It was excruciating to write. And I have loved this is like the end of like sort of three weeks of being on tour and meeting like thousands of people who have, you know, interacted with other versions of my work where we're coming into this version of my work.
[6:49]And yeah, it's just been, it's just been wonderful and amazing. So you asked me one question. I have no idea how long I talked I'm so sorry.
[6:58]I'm happy to. I'm tired. I'll just sit here. This would be doing it.
[7:02]Yeah.
[7:04]I'm actually just going to keep asking questions is how it's going to go. It's matter of fact.
[7:08]No, I actually, so some of these things I found, first of all, vintage movies vintage romcoms did not know that was a thing in terms of hashtag aging runaway pride.
[7:21]I mean, I would just call those romcoms, but don't worry, if you have a teenager, they're going to make do you want to watch a vintage romcom and you're like, you mean a contemporary film. Yeah.
[7:30]They just came out that just came out 20 years ago. What are you talking about? Oh my gosh, you're so funny.
[7:37]Okay. I need to talk to you about this weight loss thing.
[7:42]So you may not know, but I also went to Weight Watchers for many years and I was a receptionist and then I became a leader and I led meetings all over the place and you're writing it was like, so tell me about your experience because there were so many similarities and I just
[7:59]even the sad part of how eating deserves even play into dieting and all that.
[8:06]Yeah. I mean, I came of age in the late 90s, early 2000s and like every woman, every woman in history, even to like this day, maybe they're slightly so lightly cracking away at this.
[8:24]The best thing a woman could be was fit and beautiful. And if you can't be beautiful, at least you can be thin.
[8:31]And for generations, I mean, I think for like, for generations and generations that has been part of like the pursuit of, you know, perfection of self mastery.
[8:43]And I know this when I was younger, but like every bit of pop culture played into this being five years old and watching, you know, ads for like Jenny Craig and being like, oh, a shake can be a meal and eight ounce shake can be a meal.
[8:57]Watching ads for weight watchers watching, you know, magazine covers in the grocery store and seeing how a woman can gain 10 pounds and be on the cover of a magazine with that being commentary about about herself like learning so
[9:15]early on that like your weight and your beauty is intrinsically tied to your worth as a person. It turns out that does do a number on you. And I was also raised by people who I think would think of themselves like as above that narrative.
[9:32]It wasn't allowed to have barbies as a kid, because my dad said they perpetuated a negative, you know, self image and women and unrealistic beauty type. And I was like, okay, one five.
[9:42]So, so thanks for this, you know, dumb knock off baby doll from shop co.
[9:51]It wasn't allowed to have barbies, you know, didn't do ballet because, you know, my parents like no that like, you know, it gives you the wrong sense of like of yourself.
[10:00]and you're worth, but all of that stuff seeped in anyways.
[10:04]And when I was in college, I gained the freshman 15.
[10:08]You know this, right?
[10:09]The freshman 15, you go to college.
[10:11]You have unlimited access to an ice cream bar and cereal.
[10:15]And like you learn that no one's gonna stop you
[10:17]from putting cereal on your ice cream three meals a day.
[10:21]And I was still, I'm six feet tall.
[10:25]I'm a little taller than six feet tall.
[10:27]I went to college, 120 pounds, which is extremely skinny.
[10:31]And I probably came back like 140, 500 and 50,
[10:36]just whatever it was, it was still extremely thin.
[10:39]And I went to Weight Watchers.
[10:40]And if you are listening to this
[10:42]and you wanna crack your phone in half, I don't blame you.
[10:46]I don't blame you.
[10:48]I don't blame you at all.
[10:49]But I had crossed some threshold in my mind.
[10:55]And even among the people who knew me,
[10:57]nobody was alarmed that I was going to a weight loss meeting at all.
[11:03]And that program has been so helpful for so many people.
[11:07]People I know and love were helped by that program.
[11:12]I felt really good about themselves afterwards.
[11:14]Like it unlocked something that was already
[11:16]like burrowing into my brain anyways.
[11:19]Right, like it unlocked something else that was already
[11:22]in my brain.
[11:23]And it just taught me how to have a needing disorder.
[11:25]It just taught me every trick I knew
[11:27]to have an eating disorder and to treat myself horribly
[11:32]and to truly experience like the addiction
[11:37]of self control, which has been a part of my life
[11:43]for years afterward.
[11:45]And again, like, why was I there?
[11:48]Why was I there?
[11:49]Because the idea of being 15 pounds heavier
[11:53]and still like, you know, falling squarely into
[11:57]like whatever beauty standard existed even in the day
[12:01]when people were declaring like Lindsay Lohan scary skinny
[12:04]but also being like, but did she wear best?
[12:06]Of course she did.
[12:07]She wore it best.
[12:08]She wore it best.
[12:08]She's the sexiest skeleton you've ever seen.
[12:10]Like I still felt compelled to be there
[12:15]as though the best thing that I could possibly do it
[12:18]be doing with my time was like making myself smaller,
[12:24]making myself smaller, yikes.
[12:28]So how did you pull yourself out of that?
[12:32]I don't know if I have, I mean, I haven't many ways
[12:36]but I've gone to like all kinds of therapy.
[12:38]I really have but you know, in a lot of ways
[12:42]I think like our health and wellness culture
[12:46]that sort of like, oh, you know,
[12:48]all of these sort of like extremes that exist.
[12:51]Like I've always been attracted to.
[12:53]And so I just found other ways to kind of like dress it up
[12:57]or hide it.
[12:58]And for some, for periods of time that would be like,
[13:00]oh, I just run, you know what I mean?
[13:02]Like I just run, I run like, you know, five miles a day.
[13:04]Like why are you running five miles a day?
[13:06]Like why are you running five miles a day?
[13:08]Well, like mentally I was, you know, using that
[13:10]to like cancel out things or to like balance some sort
[13:14]of like invisible scale.
[13:15]Well, I don't have a scale in my house.
[13:16]But like, do I still like count in my mind?
[13:20]Like everything that I've ever eaten?
[13:22]Yeah, I would say like I probably stopped that.
[13:29]That sort of like mentality only in like the past year,
[13:32]only in the past year.
[13:33]But like I would find other ways.
[13:35]I would find other ways like when I first got a Fitbit
[13:37]I was like, okay, now I will make sure
[13:39]that it never, ever goes below 10,000 steps, ever, right?
[13:44]Oh, I have an Apple watch.
[13:45]Now I can like close that ring.
[13:48]And I can like raise that bars that ring doesn't get closed
[13:51]unless I do like a crazy amount of activity.
[13:54]And that I can dress up as like wellness.
[13:56]I can say like this is for my, this is for my health.
[13:59]It is for my health.
[14:00]But like what is the way that I can best measure my health?
[14:03]So skinny I am.
[14:05]And this is like horribly embarrassing to say out loud
[14:07]for me, you know what I mean?
[14:09]It's like, it's a, yeah, I don't know.
[14:13]It should not be embarrassing.
[14:14]And although I do understand how the comfort of the page
[14:17]is a little bit easier than sometimes discussing.
[14:20]Yeah.
[14:21]But typing it that was like, you know,
[14:22]aren't I supposed to be like a good feminist?
[14:26]Aren't I supposed to be like involved past this?
[14:28]And like when I say like bad vibes,
[14:30]it's like, no, like I have always been a person
[14:32]who's like who understands her own contradictions.
[14:37]And like, and struggles with that, right?
[14:40]Like I can say like, that was borderline insane
[14:44]that I went to Weight Watchers at that weight.
[14:47]I think it's absolutely insane that they like accept
[14:49]me that like or like, yeah, you should be here for sure.
[14:53]And I think it's like, I think it's,
[14:55]I mean to me it's sad that I'm like almost 40
[14:57]would not want any of my children to feel this way.
[15:00]And I still like, I still feel this way.
[15:04]Yeah, getting control over your inner thoughts and feelings.
[15:06]That's a tip.
[15:08]Yeah, can someone fix it?
[15:10]Can someone figure that out, please?
[15:13]Oh, then that'd be nice.
[15:15]Oh, the problem with eating stuff is it's all so physical too.
[15:20]Yeah, you know, it is and you need it too.
[15:22]It's like, there's no like other addictions.
[15:25]It's like, well, you don't need, you know,
[15:27]like you can't you can craft a life
[15:29]where like you're never around alcohol.
[15:30]Like you're never gonna be, you're never gonna have a life
[15:33]where like you're never around food or physical activity.
[15:36]So like how, how do you like learn to learn to deal
[15:41]with that stuff?
[15:42]And like, honestly, I mean, the most honest answer
[15:44]I have is like TBD.
[15:45]TBD.
[15:46]Yeah.
[15:47]Did it help to write it?
[15:48]Does it help now that it's out there forever?
[15:50]Yeah, it does.
[15:51]It does.
[15:52]I think it helped to write that out.
[15:54]It helped to like have, you know, my husband read that
[15:56]to have like my mom read that to have my sister read that
[15:58]because my sister had a very different experience
[16:00]and weight watchers.
[16:01]And our experiences were similar, our experiences were similar
[16:05]because when she lost weight,
[16:06]she became so much more beautiful to some people.
[16:10]You know what I mean?
[16:12]She got a whole different kind of attention,
[16:14]even within her family, which always made me sad as a kid,
[16:17]you know, people would say to me about my sister,
[16:19]your sister so beautiful if she could lose weight.
[16:25]Isn't that horrible?
[16:26]Like, and you hear those things when you're little
[16:27]and you hear like, okay, so I'm okay now
[16:31]because I'm not there, you know, but like,
[16:36]but if I did, then what would that mean about me?
[16:39]You know, what does it mean that my cousin is beautiful
[16:41]but she has big bones?
[16:42]What does that mean?
[16:44]And I hope people are more conscious about the way
[16:47]that they talk about that in front of children
[16:49]in front of other people, but I also do know that, you know,
[16:54]we've all like only evolved so far.
[16:56]And I do have like, you know, a kindergartner who's like,
[17:00]well, you know, a little girl in this class.
[17:02]He came home and he said, she was crying all day,
[17:04]she was crying all day.
[17:05]And I said, why was she crying all day?
[17:07]And he said, well, because this other kid said,
[17:08]she's the fattest person in our room.
[17:11]And I was like, okay, well, what does that mean?
[17:13]Like, what does that mean?
[17:14]He was like, oh, just, you know, I guess she has a bigger body.
[17:17]And I was like, okay, well, did he sit in a nice way
[17:19]or did he sit in a mean way?
[17:21]And he said, well, he said it in a mean way.
[17:22]And you know, that's what she was crying.
[17:24]I was like, wait, I was like, right, but like, you know,
[17:27]do you think it's bad that her body is different
[17:29]from yours?
[17:30]He's like, no, I'm like, okay.
[17:32]Like, and it's like, it's so, it's so difficult
[17:35]to even, you know, talk about it with a child to be like,
[17:39]look, we both see that everybody's body is different.
[17:42]But like, what if you didn't care about it
[17:44]or what if you didn't comment on it?
[17:46]And then, you know, but like, here's why you wouldn't comment
[17:49]on it because she would feel that why would she feel bad
[17:51]because some people think it's bad, but is it bad?
[17:53]It's like, it is so tangled.
[17:54]It's so difficult, but like, you know, it's 2022,
[17:58]that girl's five years old.
[18:00]And like, they're the cycle continues.
[18:02]It just continues.
[18:04]Depressing.
[18:05]Yeah, I know, I'm sorry.
[18:08]Okay, I hope that's depressing.
[18:10]Maybe not.
[18:12]I will say, when I was working at Weight Watchers,
[18:14]you had to pass a certain weight threshold.
[18:17]So maybe they changed it.
[18:18]But that was in like, yeah, yeah.
[18:20]But anyway, and I mean, maybe I did like,
[18:22]was it height and weight?
[18:23]Yeah, height and weight.
[18:24]Oh, weird.
[18:25]Yeah, I don't know.
[18:26]I don't know if they used to do that.
[18:27]Yeah, like, you know, Weight Watchers 10.2
[18:30]or I don't even know what you want to call it.
[18:31]But anyway, but this loops into your essay
[18:34]on parenting and different types of parenting.
[18:37]And oh, my gosh, you're so familiar writing about the whole thing.
[18:40]Give us like a little clip notes on different parenting
[18:43]types and competitive parenting and all of that.
[18:46]My God, I just was not prepared for the way
[18:49]that like parenting would feel like a competitive sport.
[18:52]And it feels that way because for so many people
[18:55]myself included, unless you were very conscious of it
[18:58]and you stay conscious of it in every moment,
[19:02]becoming a parent is like a projection of what you wanted
[19:06]or what you didn't have or what you hope for your kids
[19:08]and like what you all these like un-matter,
[19:11]unsaid or even like unrealized unaware expectations,
[19:16]all these expectations.
[19:17]And when you become a parent, you are suddenly thrown
[19:21]into this group without like,
[19:24]without even like, you know, signing up and be like,
[19:26]okay, I guess we're all parents now.
[19:28]We're all parents.
[19:29]We're all wildly different people who have nothing in common
[19:33]and now all our kids know each other.
[19:36]And so we got to go to a birthday party.
[19:39]We got to go to a birthday party and stand around
[19:41]and be like, uh-huh, uh-huh, and people's parenting
[19:45]ideologies become almost like a team.
[19:49]So I imagine this essay is like, you know,
[19:51]there's this, there's this, a sports league,
[19:53]it's called the competitive parenting association.
[19:55]And within there, you can join different links
[19:58]depending on your eye to obviously.
[20:00]They don't know how sports work.
[20:01]Depending on what your interest is,
[20:03]depending on what your interest is.
[20:04]And so like, are you going to be like a crunchy parent?
[20:08]These are mostly moms, obviously,
[20:09]because to be a dad is to be celebrated,
[20:12]even if you were just like present in any way.
[20:15]Like the bare minimum.
[20:16]People are like, what a dad I am.
[20:19]So can you believe it?
[20:21]He is holding his baby in public.
[20:25]In public, like people lose their minds.
[20:28]My husband flies with our children.
[20:30]People say things like, what a beautiful family.
[20:32]Do you need any help?
[20:34]All of our kids can walk.
[20:35]They're all like, they're all wipe in their own butts.
[20:37]People are like, oh my God, look at him.
[20:39]I fly with our kids and people are like,
[20:41]yeah, it does.
[20:43]Not, they can't sit by me.
[20:44]They're just like, I'm meeting,
[20:45]they're just the whole temperature changes.
[20:47]But there's all these different kinds of like parents
[20:50]that you meet once you become a parent.
[20:53]And some of them are, you know,
[20:55]free-range, screen-free organic parents
[20:58]and some of them are sports parents and some of them
[21:01]are, and I'm like blinking on all the other kinds of parents
[21:03]I've interacted with and some of them
[21:06]are like very intense academic parents.
[21:08]And all of it is so fascinating to me
[21:11]because it's not even as though they're like parenting.
[21:15]Where it's not even as though we are always parenting
[21:19]the children we got, like we become the kind of parents
[21:22]very easily that we, you know, kind of want to be.
[21:27]And it's just very, very interesting to me.
[21:29]And I've been a lot of different kinds of parents.
[21:32]I've been a lot of different kinds of parents.
[21:33]And now I'm just kind of like a lazy one.
[21:36]And I think that's the best kind to be.
[21:38]You know, I'm just like a lower the expectations
[21:40]for like my kids and for everyone around me.
[21:43]I'm like, you know what?
[21:44]Like, you're gonna get a zero on that worksheet today.
[21:48]That's what you're gonna get
[21:49]because mom doesn't know how to do fourth grade math either.
[21:53]And I'm not gonna cry about it.
[21:54]You're not gonna cry about it.
[21:55]We're gonna give up.
[21:57]Okay.
[21:57]And you're gonna go back to school
[21:58]and you're gonna ask some questions.
[22:00]Cause I don't know why they're asking for a word problem
[22:04]when you already have there to give you the answer.
[22:06]Do you know these math things?
[22:07]You've already been through this with your kids, right?
[22:09]Like I have, but I don't understand.
[22:11]It's so, my heart, like when he opens up the book,
[22:13]I'm like, I can't do it, I can't do it.
[22:17]I can't do it.
[22:18]I can't do it.
[22:18]I'm like, yeah, well, we're doing algorithms in math.
[22:21]I'm like, I'll agree with them.
[22:22]So I was like, just refresh my memory.
[22:24]I'm like, you told me that she could have.
[22:26]And then she shows it to me.
[22:27]And I'm like, oh, you're just doing subtraction, right?
[22:30]With carrying the ones or whatever.
[22:31]It's like, no, it's an algorithm.
[22:33]And I was like, since when?
[22:34]Really?
[22:35]It's when?
[22:36]Okay, you're borrowing a one or you're getting it
[22:38]over to that neighbor.
[22:38]That's all we're doing.
[22:39]That I can help you with.
[22:40]That I can help you with when it's like,
[22:42]describe the addends or addends.
[22:44]I don't even know how you say it.
[22:45]I was like, I will not do that.
[22:47]Yeah, I won't do it.
[22:48]No, okay.
[22:49]I will not.
[22:50]I will not.
[22:52]You know, there is one part of one of your essays
[22:54]that it's really, I mean, not just one,
[22:56]but this particular piece I keep thinking about
[22:59]because you have this moment with some of your girlfriends
[23:01]and you're saying like, okay, well, we're never
[23:03]going to be glamorous people.
[23:05]Are you something you said similar to that, right?
[23:07]Like, guess what?
[23:08]Like, we aren't now and we aren't going to be in the future.
[23:11]Like, this is what we got.
[23:12]And I feel like there's something so profound
[23:15]about that level of acceptance and like the shock
[23:18]of acceptance actually, like, oh my gosh.
[23:20]Like, I'm never going to be like,
[23:24]this really cool, hippie, hippie, hippie,
[23:25]hippie, like, I'm not that now.
[23:28]And I don't see a path to that.
[23:29]So, yeah.
[23:30]And so I'm just going to be this version of myself
[23:32]and like, will it change?
[23:33]Yes, but like the core elements will not.
[23:35]And therefore, I can let go.
[23:38]I can let go of, you know, the nine j-crew pencil skirts
[23:43]I bought.
[23:44]I work at home.
[23:45]Yeah.
[23:46]I work at, I have since 2015.
[23:51]Who is I shopping for?
[23:52]Like, what version of myself?
[23:53]I'm always like, you never know.
[23:55]You never know.
[23:56]I need a suit.
[23:57]You never know.
[23:57]I do know.
[23:58]I do know.
[23:59]I can like, I can file away.
[24:02]Like, I will not be.
[24:04]I will not be a person who like remembers
[24:06]to put makeup on every day.
[24:07]I just won't be.
[24:08]And good for me, good for me.
[24:11]I can let that, I can let that go.
[24:12]But yeah, my friend Brandi said to me,
[24:14]isn't it crazy?
[24:15]We'll never be like elegant.
[24:17]And I was like, why?
[24:18]Well, I'm wearing, while I'm wearing like dirty hair,
[24:21]dirty sweatshirt, like bike shorts.
[24:23]I was like, what do you mean?
[24:24]What do you mean?
[24:25]Like, and she was like, yeah, we just won't be.
[24:27]I was like, holy shit, dude.
[24:30]You were right.
[24:31]Oh, my God, so funny.
[24:35]Oh, my goodness.
[24:37]So you do so much to promote other authors.
[24:40]You have a whole other Instagram
[24:42]where you're talking about different books and all that.
[24:44]Like, tell me about that and books that you're loving
[24:48]or why you're doing that or, I don't know, all of it.
[24:51]I just love to read just like you.
[24:53]It's like I just love to read.
[24:54]I need to place to put them.
[24:56]I have not posted in a long time
[24:57]because I also have not a person who like,
[24:59]can like, I mean, that would just mean me managing something.
[25:04]I'm just not a manager.
[25:05]I'm not a good manager for myself or anybody else.
[25:07]So I post when I remember to.
[25:10]And I only post the books I like.
[25:14]Just like, I will only like talk about a book that I like.
[25:16]Cause it's like, I don't know.
[25:17]Like taste is so subjective that it's like,
[25:20]if for me to be like, I had this book was bad.
[25:22]No, wasn't I just didn't like it.
[25:23]But do I need to put that out in the world?
[25:25]I don't think so.
[25:27]I don't think I need that to put that kind of energy
[25:29]out in the world.
[25:30]But I also like to read such like a weird variety of things
[25:34]to that I just wanted a place to put them.
[25:38]And I love listening to books.
[25:41]I love listening to books that counts to me
[25:43]that counts as reading.
[25:45]And I'm, I'm not a person who enjoys like,
[25:47]I can't watch anything thrilling, even vaguely.
[25:50]Like no suspense.
[25:51]Can I stand on TV?
[25:52]None.
[25:53]I will like Google how an episode ends.
[25:56]So I can just enjoy it.
[25:57]Oh my gosh.
[25:58]Yeah, not good.
[25:59]Not good.
[26:00]I just talked through everything.
[26:01]My husband's like, please stop.
[26:02]I'm like, yeah, how are they gonna get out of this?
[26:03]I don't, he's like, I don't know,
[26:04]but it's the first episode.
[26:05]And they have a whole season.
[26:07]So I think she's gonna live.
[26:08]I'm like, okay, well, not sure.
[26:10]But I love listening to thrillers lately.
[26:14]I love listening to thrillers.
[26:15]So I've been in on a deep Paula Hawkins
[26:18]and Alice Feeny kick.
[26:20]I'm like, I just love it.
[26:22]I love it, love it, love it, love it.
[26:24]I love it.
[26:25]And I could never write anything like that
[26:26]because I'd be like, I don't know.
[26:28]And then it all worked out and everything was fun.
[26:31]And actually no one died.
[26:34]It was all a joke.
[26:34]Yeah.
[26:35]Guess what?
[26:36]It's not a thriller.
[26:37]Yeah.
[26:38]Actually a comedy.
[26:40]I'm gonna explain to you why things are happening
[26:42]the whole time.
[26:42]So you don't have to be nervous.
[26:43]Yeah.
[26:44]You know how you suspected it?
[26:45]You were right.
[26:46]Let's move on.
[26:47]She heard a bump.
[26:48]It was nothing.
[26:48]Yeah.
[26:49]Yeah.
[26:50]So what next are you working on another memoir?
[26:54]No, I feel like you were touring all over the place.
[26:56]You were doing like a one woman show over there.
[27:00]What's coming up?
[27:01]Nothing.
[27:02]Nothing is coming up.
[27:03]Nothing is coming up.
[27:04]My podcast is independent now,
[27:07]which is really exciting and wonderful.
[27:09]And I'm just, what does that mean?
[27:10]It's independent now that I own it.
[27:12]Okay. And I'm not on a network.
[27:14]I am just making it myself, which is ideal for me and wonderful.
[27:20]So I'm no longer a part of public media.
[27:22]I am just making something on my own.
[27:24]I love it.
[27:25]That is like what I've been,
[27:26]that has been my goal for six years and I have that.
[27:29]And I don't know if this is my last book,
[27:31]but it might be, it might be.
[27:33]So I'm just enjoying this process
[27:36]and enjoying having it out in the world
[27:38]without like all of the stress that is accompanied
[27:41]like every other book launch
[27:42]because they're just so stressful.
[27:44]They're inherently stressful.
[27:45]Like you make a thing.
[27:46]I mean like hoisted out into the world
[27:49]and you're like, I hope you catch it.
[27:51]And that's so far out of your control.
[27:53]And I have always been onto the next thing,
[27:56]always been onto the next thing
[27:57]and never enjoyed anything.
[27:58]And so I've made a very deliberate choice this time.
[28:01]Like I'm just gonna enjoy it.
[28:03]I'm just gonna enjoy it.
[28:04]And then when the next thing comes to me,
[28:05]if it does, I'll be here.
[28:08]And if it doesn't, I like this thing.
[28:10]Yeah, I like that.
[28:11]Yeah.
[28:12]Wait, so can you go back for two seconds?
[28:14]So terrible things for asking.
[28:15]Used to be part of public radio.
[28:16]What can you do now that you couldn't do before?
[28:18]Why did you want it on your own?
[28:20]I mean, I'll tell you that off record.
[28:22]Okay. Yeah.
[28:23]Tell you that off record.
[28:24]I'll tell you that off record.
[28:25]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:27]Okay. Great.
[28:29]Well, Nora, thank you so much.
[28:30]Thank you.
[28:31]Thank you.
[28:32]Thank you for having me.
[28:34]I loved getting to know you better through your essays
[28:36]and of course chatting with you.
[28:38]So thank you.
[28:40]Okay.
[28:42]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's Don't Have Time
[28:44]to Read Books.
[28:45]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[28:48]and at Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[28:50]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[28:53]and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:55]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:57]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[28:59]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[29:01]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[29:03]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.