Jason Gay, I WOULDN'T DO THAT IF I WERE ME: Modern Blunders and Modest Triumphs (but Mostly Blunders)
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.
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[0:59]Jason Gay is the author of, I wouldn't do that if I were me, modern blenders, and modest triumphs, but mostly blenders.
[1:05]Jason is the sports and humor columnist at the Wall Street Journal and is very aware of how hilarious that sounds.
[1:11]He was named sports columnist of the year by the Society of Professional Journalists in 2010, 2016, and 2019,
[1:18]and his first book, The New York Times bestseller Little Vectories, was a finalist for the third reprise in American humor.
[1:24]He lives in Baltimore, Maryland with his family, surrounded by way too many in love.
[1:28]This is the second time Jason has been on this podcast, and you will hear Kyle, my husband, Kyle, and me just finding over him because we love, love, love the way he writes.
[1:38]And by the way, there was a huge excerpt of Jason's fishing essay from this book in the Wall Street Journal, the weekend of October 29th.
[1:46]So if you want to search that up, go ahead.
[1:49]Hi there.
[1:50]Oh, my gosh, turned up the volume way too bad. How are you?
[1:54]That's great. Thanks. How are you today?
[1:56]And I brought Kyle. I hope you don't mind.
[1:58]I appreciate that. Thank you for your kind words.
[2:01]Oh, my gosh. I appreciate that. I appreciate that a lot.
[2:05]I couldn't believe it when I saw it on her, on her calendar that she was interviewing you today, and I was like, I need to jump in.
[2:11]And he's like, tell him, tell him I'm a fan. I was like, why don't you sit here.
[2:15]Appreciate that. Kyle, let me ask you a question.
[2:17]What do you think of all those pickleball stuff?
[2:19]That's a great question.
[2:20]I think it's really interesting that a lot of guys, like, know a ruben, for instance, has just, you know, decided to switch over full time and feels like he has found his home.
[2:33]You know, being a former tennis player myself who's not gifted with the gift of height, I totally hear what he's saying.
[2:43]It really takes height out of it. But then again, I recently saw an interview with Sam Quirrie, who,
[2:49]just saying that he would probably be the best pickleball player in the world.
[2:53]If he decided to pick up a paddle, given his height and his, you know, obviously knowledge and skill of tennis.
[3:00]So, you know, saying that he hasn't seen someone in the top 50 of tennis get into pickleball yet.
[3:07]I think it has a long way to go. I think we're the really beginning stages. I, you know, sell the bronze just bought a team.
[3:13]The thing that I was wondering about, you know, just from a business standpoint is that like pickleball has this really cool thing for a sport right now, which is as it's like genuine like organic excitement, right?
[3:24]Like people are playing it. You go to like, you know, almost any community now and there's a little bit of a pickleball scene happening.
[3:31]Almost like, you haven't seen that in tennis since the 70s really just sort of like your neighbors are playing pickleball.
[3:37]It has this advantage, of course, you know, I've brought us much. You could learn it in the afternoon.
[3:41]I get a lot of people are excited about it.
[3:43]I almost worry that if they sort of over professionalize it and they sort of focused too much on the celebrity aspect of it, they're going to sort of like squash the thing that is really great.
[3:53]The other part of it, Kyle, that I'm curious about is like, are people going to want to watch it? I like to play it.
[3:59]Do I want to watch two hours of people playing pickleball? Is it that appealing? I don't know. You know what I mean?
[4:05]I mean, I feel like I would watch it if there was a match right now between like Sam Quirrie and Noah Ruben, for instance, I would watch that.
[4:14]I am not, it plays often actually nowadays on tennis channel, which I find interesting. And no, I don't really watch it mainly because I don't like the way it sounds.
[4:27]You know what? There's a billion dollar business out there for someone who advanced the first silent pickleball racket. You know their work.
[4:35]Yeah, I mean, it's like a, you know, with a ball sort of sound. I just absolutely love love the sound of a tennis ball and a tennis racket.
[4:45]There's much more technically appealing, you know, but yeah, I mean, I endorse anything against people moving, right? So that's great, but it is a funny scene for sure.
[4:55]Yeah, I mean, I would love to try it out. We should, we should do it some day.
[4:59]It's like, it's almost like everybody started playing Kadeema. Do you remember Kadeema?
[5:03]Yeah. Everyone's like, oh, do you play Kadeema? It's like we just do it on the beach.
[5:07]Yeah. Like now it's like becoming so official.
[5:10]Well, Debbie, thanks for coming on Kyle and my pickleball.
[5:13]I know, I'm like, this is great. Thank you. My job here is easy.
[5:18]This is great. I'm going to include all this so that everybody can help sit here and back pickle.
[5:23]There's a lot of pickleball fans out there. They want to know the scoop.
[5:26]There. Okay. So you two will be on top of the prototype for the new racket. Yeah.
[5:30]We'll see what you two come up with. Well, we loved, loved, loved your new book.
[5:35]We loved your last pick, little victories.
[5:37]We love this one. We love all your columns.
[5:39]It's the only thing I routinely still read out loud to Kyle whenever we're like driving the kids to school and you have a column.
[5:45]Like, oh, new Jason gay column.
[5:47]We just, I feel like so lame even saying that to you.
[5:50]I mean, we just love your sense of humor.
[5:52]We just drove down to San Diego this weekend.
[5:55]Our writers festival that Debbie was speaking at and caught in traffic for like three hours.
[6:01]And she read almost your entire book out loud.
[6:04]That's all.
[6:05]And I almost got in like six different accidents because I was crying laughing so hard. I couldn't even see.
[6:11]I'll have you know, as a beginning of the drive, I was like, Kyle, I should just record this.
[6:15]I'm basically recording his audio book for him.
[6:17]And I was like, you do not want, he does not want you to record his audio book.
[6:21]Yeah, so we did.
[6:22]We didn't record it.
[6:23]I should have.
[6:24]I should have.
[6:25]That would be so happy.
[6:26]I mean, I'm sorry you're in miserable traffic.
[6:28]But you know, if that word gets out that like, you know, you can survive the 405 to San Diego or what is it?
[6:35]What is it?
[6:36]We're not even on.
[6:37]We were.
[6:38]Don't even ask what we took.
[6:39]We went on the shortest route according to the maps, which was like, we ended up on hundreds of miles out of the way.
[6:44]Don't you? I don't know.
[6:45]We were in the desert.
[6:46]That drive is crazy, right?
[6:47]Because it's kind of like fine or the worst day of your life.
[6:51]It was it was almost four hours.
[6:52]And I was like, this is crazy.
[6:53]But it was so it was such a treat to to listen and laugh.
[6:57]Oh my God.
[6:58]I mean, you're just obviously such a genius.
[7:00]And so so beautiful that you you share it with with the world.
[7:04]So well, you're very kind to say.
[7:05]So I appreciate that.
[7:06]And, you know, Zibi has been here since day one as a.
[7:09]Order advocate.
[7:10]And I've just been blown away by what she's grown.
[7:13]So I'm very grateful for the kind of things.
[7:16]There were a couple of passages.
[7:18]I was hoping I could read even just like short little sections.
[7:21]I'm not reading the one about.
[7:24]I'm not going to read the one that made us laugh the most because I want people to go get the book.
[7:28]Cause they was great.
[7:29]Okay.
[7:30]Okay.
[7:31]That was the texting chapter.
[7:32]Oh, yeah.
[7:33]Okay.
[7:34]Oh my gosh.
[7:35]Oh my gosh.
[7:36]I don't want to give it away.
[7:37]That was.
[7:38]And it was so fun.
[7:39]It was weird thinking.
[7:40]I can't even read it out loud.
[7:41]But let's see.
[7:43]I mean, in your book, you cover really everything that people of a certain age.
[7:47]Like we're all thinking about basically parenting, aging, what time you wake up.
[7:52]Recreational sports like golf and I mean, watching sports all like everything that you're.
[7:59]And then like the very poignant things about your mom and the cat and the cat escape it.
[8:05]Oh my gosh.
[8:06]It was just anyway.
[8:07]So here are a couple of things that that I really resonated.
[8:10]One is watching your parents get older and trying to deal with the.
[8:16]Empty nest ish to come perhaps.
[8:19]And you had this one passage where you talked about your mom.
[8:22]Baxter is the cat that you gave her.
[8:24]And he said, we talk about when Baxter should come home, but we don't really make a plan.
[8:27]In the summer, we quote, borrow him back for a couple of weeks on vacation.
[8:31]At first it goes well.
[8:32]We're staying in a house with trees and he can run around outside and chase mods.
[8:35]But then a neighboring dog starts stalking him.
[8:37]So he retreats under another bed.
[8:39]When we return him to my mothers and the drive home, he looks relieved.
[8:42]As we pull out of the driveway.
[8:44]I swear, I have the two of them have this conversation.
[8:47]How was it?
[8:48]My mother asks, don't ask.
[8:49]I need a drink.
[8:50]Baxter says, doers, you know me.
[8:52]She missed him.
[8:54]My mother is not exactly an open book in terms of revealing her own emotions, but she confesses.
[8:58]She's grown to need Baxter more than she ever expected.
[9:01]My father has been dead for six years.
[9:03]And until Baxter showed up, it was just my mom and the hum of the coffee maker, which is not enough, especially now.
[9:09]I like to whine about my overcrowded apartment and the calamity of young children.
[9:13]And how much I want to live on a desert and deserted island.
[9:16]But I know how much it fills me up.
[9:18]It's noise.
[9:19]It's life.
[9:20]Yeah.
[9:21]I mean, the backstory of this, of course, is that, you know, my mother adopted our cat during COVID.
[9:30]We moved out of town to a house where we couldn't stay with a cat because the homeowner was allergic.
[9:38]So my mother stepped in and adopted this cat and found love.
[9:42]And really, it's a love story of this.
[9:44]I want, you know, what I should emphasize is that this is not an entirely book about a cat.
[9:49]It's, there's no, no, it's an essay.
[9:51]There's a couple of stories and it's like, you know, form a little bit of a, hopefully a little bit of a backbone of the book about just.
[10:00]this pet and like getting through COVID and what it meant for my relationship with my mother.
[10:04]But, you know, it really was this way to talk about, you know, childhood and parenting and
[10:09]relationships. And I think that, you know, one thing that was a very interesting experience about
[10:14]doing this book was that originally the idea was effectively writing a humor book about COVID,
[10:19]you know, probably the most unfunny thing that's happened in our lifetimes. And a very severe
[10:24]thing that caused an enormous amount of, you know, heartbreak and death and destruction.
[10:30]And yet, you know, we did learn a lot about our interior lives and our communities and what
[10:36]were important to us and people sort of have, you know, rebuilt their value systems and priorities
[10:41]in the wake of this. And I just felt that like, since we all went through it, there's some fertile
[10:46]ground there to go at. And, you know, my experience is my experience. I certainly wouldn't claim that
[10:52]it's universal, but I think there are some universal aspects of this experience, you know, in
[10:58]terms of our relationships with our children, parents, families, friends, communities, neighborhoods,
[11:04]and so on. I think their great shift has occurred. And, you know, in any kind of, you know, social
[11:10]cultural revolution, there's always some humor to be found. And that's what I was trying to get at.
[11:14]This man, I made this out way too high, bro. I'm just trying to make you laugh in a traffic jam.
[11:19]It definitely made us laugh in a traffic jam. And it wasn't the first time all your books to be,
[11:26]I don't know. They find their way into our lives in a sense that she's reading them to me while
[11:32]we're driving. And it is really memorable. Well, I appreciate that. You know, honestly,
[11:37]don't wear a praise. No, I'm trying to like, you know, write books that you can kind of pick up at
[11:43]any point, you know, that's not, you know, they're individual stories and essays and like,
[11:48]I like reading books out of sequence, even books that are supposed to be written
[11:51]sequence. I read out of sequence. I don't know what that means, but I feel strongly that,
[11:56]you know, there is a place for humor in our very severe times. And in some ways, I'm trying to do
[12:03]kind of a throwback thing, which is to an era when, you know, whether it was, you know, people
[12:08]earn a bomb back or Dave Barry or Lewis Brizzard or Molly Ivan's or, you know, later,
[12:14]though our efron, you know, who, you know, when they were contemporary humorists who found,
[12:20]you know, joy and humor and almost anything. And, you know, my little humble way tried to steal
[12:25]a little bit of that. I love that. It was in Seinfeld too, you know, there's the humor in the
[12:33]humor in the everyday moments. Of course. What's the deal with? Exactly. The sort of like founding
[12:38]principle of every joke is what's the deal with? You also have this funny section about reading.
[12:44]Can I read you? Can I just read these two paragraphs too? You're talking the context of this
[12:49]one is the fact that we have no attention spans for anything in life at all. And then you say,
[12:53]why bother focusing if no one's demanding it? It's only a matter of time before Broadway shows
[12:57]turn on the lights at the final curtain. Why waste three minutes clapping? Musicians will be
[13:01]asked to stop guitar noodling and get straight to the chorus. The song parts we like most.
[13:05]One day, there will be a fast forward option for me to press when Jesse or Jojo starts talking
[13:09]about the day at school. I don't care what happened in math. Just get to the dead pitch and you
[13:12]found it recess. Think of Skiff intro, deployed a Thanksgiving dinner. Your uncle fills Canadian
[13:16]camping adventure doesn't stand a chance. We are slicing away the tedium, but at what cost? How long
[13:21]are people going to read books? Did people still read books? Asking someone to read a book these
[13:27]days feels like asking them to join you on his sail from main to Portugal. A whole book
[13:33]publishers deploy edgy moves to grab readers. The most recent of which is putting curse words in
[13:38]titles as a way of shocking a consumer into attention and purchase. Look at any bestseller list
[13:42]and six of the top ten books will contain an unnecessarily unnecessary expletive and an exclamation
[13:47]point. To be sure there was brief talk about naming this book, hey, asshole! But come on, I can't
[13:55]publish a book with that kind of crude title. At least not while my father-in-law can still be
[13:59]me in a fight. It's humor, but of course there's truth in every joke as Kyle often points out when
[14:10]I make mean jokes. What do you make of this whole attention phenomenon? By the way, I've watched
[14:17]every intro since every time it's Skiff intro, I'm watching the intro now and watching the
[14:22]good for you. I've definitely gotten to the Skiffing part. I mean, listen, I'm just as guilty as
[14:28]anybody else. I'm sort of falling into this atrophying attention span world that we live in. I
[14:34]frightened by how quickly I can shift to watching short videos and TikToks and things on
[14:42]Instagram and just sort of amuse myself that way and feel less and less inclined to invest in
[14:48]something that requires the full span of my attention. And especially when you sort of consider
[14:53]the biochemical element of it, the neurological aspect of this that like, you know,
[15:01]publishers are capitalizing on. It's frightening. It's frightening for anybody who has a job,
[15:06]mine included that requires people to focus for in the newspaper column, you know, 90 seconds to
[15:11]three minutes or in a book, you know, longer than that. And yet it's really funny, you know, it is
[15:16]funny that people have just kind of gotten to this point that we are just sort of taking out
[15:21]any of the tedium. I mean, there's that old book, I'm using ourselves to death. And I feel like
[15:26]we've really officially arrived there now because we are kind of striking out anything that is
[15:30]just sort of unnecessarily, you know, explanatory or slow, you know, anybody who's had the experience
[15:37]of going and listening or rather watching a movie from, you know, let's just go back to the 80s.
[15:43]I mean, a movie from the 1980s feels like a silent film compared to a film that's produced in 2022
[15:49]when you consider the action of the pacing of a Avengers movie to even something like Star Wars,
[15:54]Star Wars feels like a student film compared to what movies are made like today. And that's a
[16:00]complete, you know, cave to this sort of short-of-spot attention span that we world that we live in.
[16:06]And so, you know, I want to sort of, in my humorous way, resist it because I do feel there's
[16:12]incredible value to those kinds of things. There's value to sitting through the credits and
[16:16]learning who the masterminds behind the shows that you love and the actors and the key grips and
[16:22]the set designers who spent, you know, their genius and time putting together these kinds of
[16:26]things. But I worry about it, you know, and listen, as our one of our jobs as parents is of course
[16:32]to professionally worry about our children in the next generation. And I see my own children's
[16:36]attention spans of like, you know, when I see the video scrolling across my children's,
[16:43]you know, brains, I sit there and I think, you know, they're never going to be at the tolerance
[16:47]for a two-hour movie. My son sat down, he was sick home sick a couple weeks ago, and he watched
[16:52]him in the movie. And to me, it was like watching him like build a table. He had done that kind of
[16:58]thing in a long time, you know, and I was kind of proud of him. I was like, I'm proud of you,
[17:03]Jesse, for watching him move me, you know, like, I'm someone who told me that I could stay
[17:08]at home and watch a movie when I was nine years old. I wouldn't have been dancing in the streets,
[17:12]but to him, it was like work to actually labor through that much attention for that long.
[17:16]It's true. We recently took away the iPads from the, our little kids because I almost,
[17:23]I got to a point where I was about to like throw them against the wall and like happily watch the
[17:28]glass shatter. They were just so addicted and they're young. I mean, I shouldn't even admit this,
[17:32]they're seven and nine. And so one day the summer, I was just like, that's it. I'm done.
[17:35]I'm sending these to New York City without you and whatever. And then I couldn't find them.
[17:39]So now they're back to watching TV shows together, which I love. And they have to like
[17:44]negotiate what show to watch. And they watch 26 minutes at a time. And I'm like, this is great.
[17:50]I feel like a good parent. Whereas before with my older kids, I was like, you can only watch TV like
[17:54]once a week and da da da, you know, I'm literally right there with you. My children are seven and
[17:58]nine. They're exactly in that spot. They will, I don't like the sort of idea of them sort of like,
[18:04]you know, hunkering off on their own to have their own entertainment. You know, like that,
[18:09]I mean, you see that even like, you know, people go away on their, you know, summer vacation and
[18:13]everybody's at their iPads at night watching like five separate forms of entertainment. Whatever
[18:18]happens to like making, you know, making a popcorn and like watching a bad movie together,
[18:22]like we need to have those sort of like communal experiences. I mean, if we learned anything from COVID,
[18:27]it is our sort of, you know, incredible desire for human interaction. The idea that we could be
[18:32]some sort of self-sustaining species is not true. You know, we do crave those kinds of things.
[18:38]And the reason why people are so excited to get back out there and go and have those kinds of
[18:41]experiences to go see top gun is exactly that. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. So it's good. We've all
[18:48]I do find it interesting that people have a, you know, really hard time sitting down to commit
[18:53]to a two hour movie, but they will sit and like watch 10 hours in a row of some show. Yeah.
[19:01]I mean, our older daughter is or 15 yesterday, she's like, I watched six episodes of Riverdale.
[19:09]I was like, what? Anyway, it's terrible. But don't you think that that part of that is a
[19:14]function of the way that shows are constructed, which they're almost constructed, like,
[19:18]you know, the way that Dan Brown wrote his novels, which was like every, you know, like they're
[19:23]very brief chapters. And they all ended with, and he turned the corner and you never believed
[19:28]what happened next. And of course you're new. You know, the way that episodic TV is structured,
[19:35]it's making you move on to the next because you can't stand the idea of putting it down that.
[19:39]Yes. Yeah. It's true. Just like your essays. There's one more. You didn't get to read this one
[19:46]because I read it a little without you. I'm really sorry. Yes. But it's about aging, which was also
[19:51]really funny. Okay. Last couple things. Am I reading too much? I can stop at this. Oh, no,
[19:56]please. Okay. This is the last one. Allow me to be the zillie.
[20:00]and the person to discover that to age
[20:02]is to be constantly reminded of aging.
[20:04]It is nothing less than a steady abandonment
[20:06]of youthful sensations, replaced by a slow climb
[20:08]of infirm sensations, atrophy, and not infrequently pain.
[20:12]I am lucky in this regard.
[20:13]I do not have acute pain.
[20:15]I know people who do, and it is merciless and grinding,
[20:17]the kind of wincing that alters behavior and actions
[20:20]and can overtake a life.
[20:21]I mercifully do not have this.
[20:23]When the conversation at the barbecue
[20:24]turns to the various states of back-hell,
[20:26]discs, satica, stenosis,
[20:28]I am relieved to not make a knowing contribution.
[20:31]My back at the moment seems sturdy,
[20:33]and this feels like a miracle,
[20:34]as I spend much of my day hunched over a computer
[20:36]like a squirrel.
[20:37]I sometimes debate buying one of those posture buzzers
[20:39]that we use out an aerate system,
[20:41]whenever the weary shoulders hunch,
[20:42]it sounds terrifying,
[20:43]and I decided as much calmer to just hunch.
[20:46]My pain is more mild, dull-shaped.
[20:48]It is the feeling of not living in a pristine body,
[20:51]but instead renting a rundown cottage in Maine
[20:53]with poison ivy in the front yard.
[20:56]Oh my gosh.
[20:59]I tried to write about aging on Instagram the other day
[21:01]when I was having a similar moment,
[21:04]and this is just like,
[21:05]I'm like, oh, look at how many people can write about aging.
[21:08]Mine was like this sort of despair,
[21:10]like complete existential despair.
[21:13]Yeah, yeah.
[21:15]I mean, look, this is again,
[21:17]so one of the most universal experiences,
[21:19]we all have it eventually,
[21:21]hopefully some less severe than others,
[21:23]but what provoked this honestly was,
[21:26]you know, I played in this little tennis group
[21:27]and at the changeovers,
[21:29]you know, we would sit there,
[21:31]there was a time when we'd talk about our lives,
[21:33]our careers, our children,
[21:35]but now all we do is talk about our various pains.
[21:37]It's like sort of like we do an inventory of the knees,
[21:40]the next change ever do a name,
[21:41]inventory of the shoulders,
[21:43]the ankles,
[21:44]and the backs of it's like,
[21:46]everyone's got an opinion,
[21:47]everyone's got a chiropractor,
[21:48]everyone's got some take on some new form
[21:52]of, you know, whether it's yoga or exercise
[21:56]and some fashion to solve things,
[21:57]but what also provoked this was,
[22:01]during COVID, I broke my fourth toe.
[22:04]This is a toe you don't even realize exists.
[22:06]It's the toe next to your pinky toe.
[22:08]It's kind of the marsha of your toes,
[22:10]like no one really pays any attention to this poor toe,
[22:13]but I got a stress fracture in it,
[22:15]and I don't know how it happened.
[22:18]I didn't kick anything,
[22:19]I didn't drop anything on my foot,
[22:20]but it laid me flat.
[22:23]I mean, it made me whimper,
[22:25]and it just was the most absurd,
[22:28]like, you know, mechanical breakdown of my body,
[22:31]and it really made me question my existence,
[22:34]and it really required me to stop doing anything,
[22:37]which is what, you know,
[22:38]a stress fracture, you kind of go to the doctor,
[22:39]and they shrug and say like,
[22:40]well, you got a stress fracture.
[22:41]You know, what are you gonna do?
[22:42]You can't really like cast it and like keep it, you know,
[22:46]unused because it's in your foot.
[22:48]Anyway, long story short, you know,
[22:50]I feel that this will be a continued topic
[22:52]throughout my life as I continue to atrophy and infirm, you know,
[22:55]so there could be more of this to come.
[22:59]I hope so.
[23:00]I hope so.
[23:01]I mean, I know people talk about aging a lot,
[23:05]but finding all the humor in it is really important
[23:09]because it can be very depressing and discouraging.
[23:12]It's like, you know, your body is like overtaken
[23:14]by, you know, terrible forces,
[23:16]like changing everything about you,
[23:18]and there's like nothing you can do,
[23:19]except to like try to cover it up if you choose.
[23:21]Or not.
[23:22]But also the other aspect of it is sometimes
[23:25]it's just good old fashioned luck.
[23:26]You know, we all know people who didn't really take care
[23:28]of themselves, who for whatever reason,
[23:30]just are like in fantastic fit health,
[23:33]and then people who are constantly trying every new diet
[23:36]and exercise routine who are constantly struggling
[23:39]with, you know, body breakdown.
[23:40]So there's an element of roll of dice here,
[23:43]which I think is really maddening as well.
[23:46]So true.
[23:47]So are you doing, what's the plan?
[23:50]Because I'm like, oh, do you guys know Jason gay?
[23:52]You write sports, but I know you don't have to like sports.
[23:55]You write about parenting.
[23:56]You write about all this stuff, you know,
[23:57]like for some people, it's like forget the sports part,
[24:00]even though that's your whole job.
[24:01]Yeah, but I feel like even the sports part
[24:03]is you don't have to be a fan of sports.
[24:06]That's true.
[24:07]Appreciate your article.
[24:08]Like I always think about it.
[24:09]And I always think, wow, if someone didn't like sports,
[24:12]they would find this article about sports really
[24:15]that's true.
[24:16]So talk about your sports passion, your career,
[24:21]what you're going to write about essays versus world
[24:25]and all that.
[24:26]Yeah, I mean, listen, I will first of all,
[24:27]I appreciate all those kind words.
[24:29]And you're exactly describing what I'm aiming for,
[24:31]which is to try to write general interest columns
[24:35]about things that are happening in the world of sports.
[24:37]But they have appeal to people who might not
[24:40]be closely following it to it.
[24:42]And sort of it began with this environment that I mean,
[24:45]I work for the Wall Street Journal, you know,
[24:47]not known as America as like leading sports publication, right?
[24:51]Not known as a place where humor is the, you know,
[24:54]principle way of delivering information.
[24:56]So I was already in an odd ball to begin with.
[24:59]But to me, I felt this enormous advantage
[25:01]because I didn't have to do the sort of hardcore sports stuff
[25:05]that you might have to do, say if you're at, you know,
[25:07]the daily news or ESPN or someplace where you have serious sports
[25:11]fans paying attention.
[25:12]So it allowed me to like experiment a little bit,
[25:15]reach an audience of people who again are reading a paper
[25:17]because they have much more important things going on.
[25:19]And this is just kind of a little piece of dessert
[25:22]that they can have later in their read of the paper.
[25:25]And this is the number one thing that I hear from people
[25:27]that they, you know, aren't a big fan of whether it's football,
[25:32]basketball, baseball, whatever the sport du jour is,
[25:35]but they read this because it amuses them
[25:38]because they might learn something.
[25:39]I always try to keep in mind the idea that, you know,
[25:41]somebody coming to a sports story doesn't always have
[25:45]all the information certainly that I do
[25:47]or even the regular everyday sports fan does.
[25:49]I mean, if you spend any time nowadays watching ESPN
[25:53]or sort of hardcore sports radio, it's the intensity
[25:56]of knowledge now is staggering.
[25:58]I mean, the amount of information that's accessible
[26:00]to the regular sports fan at home now by a computer
[26:02]and analytics and beyond is incredible.
[26:05]So it almost sounds like people are speaking
[26:07]for the language.
[26:07]If you're coming to this, not knowing much about basketball,
[26:10]listen to a basketball podcast, you're like,
[26:12]these people are speaking French.
[26:13]I don't get any of this, like what's going on?
[26:16]So I try to keep in mind the fact that there is still
[26:18]a substantial population of casual fans,
[26:21]people who might turn into the Super Bowl second half
[26:24]to watch the halftime show and the commercials
[26:26]and people who watch, you know, one tennis event a year,
[26:29]it's the Wimbledon final where they watch the Olympics,
[26:32]but they have kids who play sports,
[26:33]they play sports occasionally themselves
[26:36]because there are all kinds of ways that sports can
[26:38]enter individual lives that aren't necessarily
[26:41]about the X's and the O's and the betting lines
[26:43]and all that kind of stuff.
[26:44]And I want to grab those folks.
[26:47]Very smart.
[26:48]Yeah, that's amazing.
[26:49]So what's your career plan going forward?
[26:52]Where are you headed?
[26:52]I just run at the clock.
[26:54]Here's it being, you know, I'm just going to be like,
[26:56]hang on as hard as I can.
[26:59]I mean, listen, you know, the funny part
[27:01]about being in the newspaper business is that, you know,
[27:04]I've now been at this for, you know, more than 25 years.
[27:07]And at no point did anyone ever pull me aside
[27:09]and say, hey, man, newspaper business,
[27:12]that's where it's at, right?
[27:13]It's been a constant siege, you know,
[27:15]it's been since the day I began in it.
[27:18]A profession that has been categorized as endangered
[27:23]or on the verge of destruction.
[27:24]And certainly there has been a lot of carnage
[27:26]in newspapering.
[27:27]You know, we've lost a lot of tremendous publications
[27:30]and so on.
[27:31]It's not a career that when kids come home
[27:33]tell their parents, they want to become a newspaper
[27:35]or reporters, the parents shake their hands and say,
[27:36]that's great.
[27:37]I was hoping you were going to be a newspaper reporter
[27:39]and not a neurosurgeon or a, you know,
[27:43]but that could be, you know, like, I'm thrilled
[27:45]you're because you're a risk at all.
[27:49]But I just believe very much in it.
[27:51]And I still believe that, you know,
[27:54]good writing and stories while told and reported
[27:57]and truth to power means something.
[27:59]And there still is a lot of consequential stuff happening.
[28:02]And I, there's a long way of saying that,
[28:06]you know, there isn't a part of me
[28:08]that wants to try something radically different.
[28:10]You know, there are kinds of writing
[28:11]that I'd like to, you know, try a little bit more of.
[28:14]And I'd love to continue writing books
[28:17]that's been a really validating experience.
[28:19]I mean, it's been interesting to sort of say,
[28:21]me people are saying, oh, I read your book.
[28:23]I've found it in a jang, do you write anywhere else?
[28:25]I'm like, yeah, four times a week at this other page.
[28:27]You know, like, I'm writing all the time, man.
[28:30]But there is a different audience you can reach
[28:32]through books that I'm thrilled about that.
[28:34]But I do like the fact that, you know,
[28:37]if I have a thought about something I care about,
[28:40]I can kind of unload it in this paper
[28:41]and I'm very grateful to be at a place where,
[28:46]you know, as we all know,
[28:47]the journal has its incredibly august reputation
[28:49]for financial reporting.
[28:50]And I sort of like get to like,
[28:52]write in the back of the jet ski, you know,
[28:53]on this incredible paper with all these talented people.
[28:57]So I'm not, I sound like I'm joking,
[28:59]but, you know, I would sign a lifetime deal.
[29:02]Like, I found the thing that I want to do.
[29:05]Amazing.
[29:06]Well, thank you so much for all of your entertainment.
[29:10]I will buy anything you write, read everything or, you know,
[29:14]it's just so great.
[29:15]So thank you for delighting us.
[29:17]I appreciate both of you
[29:19]and I appreciate your support from again, day one.
[29:21]And, you know, when I was this little random person,
[29:24]I'm still a little random,
[29:25]but even more little and random person out there
[29:28]just trying to find my way.
[29:30]And, well, let's get some pickleball going, all right?
[29:32]Let's do it.
[29:33]And we'll make Kyle play.
[29:35]What, are you right here, lefty?
[29:37]Oh, righty.
[29:37]Okay, so we'll make you play lefty, you know.
[29:39]That's the best.
[29:41]We'll play.
[29:43]Perfect.
[29:44]That would be really fun.
[29:44]That would.
[29:45]Okay.
[29:46]Great day.
[29:47]Good bye here.
[29:48]Thank you.
[29:49]A couple of years ago,
[29:50]right before the pandemic arrived and the world changed,
[29:53]I took my son, Jesse, to the day tone of 500.
[29:57]I had no idea the planet was about to shut down,
[29:59]but...
[30:00]retrospect, it was a pretty rowdy way to save farewell to civilization.
[30:04]Jesse was in.
[30:06]I don't even think I got to the second syllable of Daytona.
[30:09]He was six years old and obsessed with hot wheels,
[30:12]Camaro fumes, and monster trucks.
[30:14]He'd watched cars a thousand times
[30:17]to the point he grew mildly disappointed
[30:19]when the impala and traffic next to us
[30:21]was an anthropomorphically chatting to us
[30:23]through its front bumper.
[30:26]Stock car racing is not for everyone.
[30:28]Four plus hours of Chevy's forwards and Toyota's,
[30:32]making left hand turns is not a big topic of conversation
[30:35]among the Flabby New York City dads, I know,
[30:38]who bicker about pavement records
[30:39]and drink overrated $6 pour over ice coffees.
[30:43]But for Jesse, book it.
[30:46]I figured the trip wouldn't be a big hassle.
[30:48]A quick flight from New York City to Orlando,
[30:50]short drive from Orlando to Daytona Beach,
[30:52]and then we drive around for seven or eight hours
[30:54]looking for parking.
[30:55]Easy peasy.
[30:57]What he didn't count on was what it meant
[30:59]to fly to Orlando.
[31:01]The moment we stepped on the plane, Jesse saw them.
[31:04]Kids dressed in Disney gear, clutching mickeys
[31:07]and minis and dough-eyed princesses of every hairstyle and rank.
[31:10]These kids were not going to the Daytona 500.
[31:13]They were not impressed by a small block,
[31:16]358 CI V8.
[31:18]They were off to the Magic Kingdom,
[31:20]or Animal Kingdom, or I've caught
[31:22]a Blizzard Beach water park and probably all the above.
[31:25]And I realized that I was going to be spending this trip
[31:27]playing Disney defense against the child who had never been.
[31:31]The arrival at the airport was much worse.
[31:34]Orlando International Airport is basically a portal
[31:37]into the inner ear of Mickey Mouse.
[31:39]From the moment of disembarkation,
[31:41]there is an assault of Disney consumerism,
[31:44]colorful posters, advertising new rides and features,
[31:47]kiosks arranging transit and VIP tours,
[31:50]a sprawling gift shop stocked not with the usual assortment
[31:53]of poly blend hoodies and beanbag unicorns,
[31:56]but with stacked shelves of Diz Biz merchandise.
[32:00]Basically, the airport is the Disney welcome drink,
[32:03]and as Jesse and I move through it,
[32:05]I wish I'd brought him a pair of eye blinders,
[32:07]like the ones they put on carriage horses.
[32:10]Are we ever going to go to Disney World, Jesse asked?
[32:13]Not demandingly, but plateively,
[32:16]as if you were asking if we'd ever see a loggerhead turtle
[32:18]in the wild.
[32:20]This is a delicate question for a parent
[32:22]to answer when they are standing in the kitchen
[32:24]800 miles from Florida.
[32:27]There's no satisfying way to answer it
[32:29]when standing in the middle of Orlando International Airport.
[32:32]When there are shuttle buses outside the door,
[32:34]ready to take you.
[32:36]When the entire momentum of the facility is designed
[32:39]to deposit you at the doorstep of Walt Xanadu
[32:41]within 15 or so minutes, no response is sufficient.
[32:46]You can't give your kid a lame excuse about the timing
[32:49]or the season or your inability to find plane tickets
[32:52]you are literally here.
[32:56]So the only humane thing you could do is to escape,
[32:59]to grab your child by the hand and march the wordlessly
[33:01]to the rental car counter or a family's waiting in line
[33:04]or dammit already in mouse ears.
[33:08]But Jesse didn't toss a fit, I was grateful.
[33:11]He was too focused on Daytona
[33:12]and he seemed to buy my limp suggestion
[33:14]of a Disney rain check.
[33:16]We got on the road to the speedway,
[33:18]and once we got clear of the greater Mickeyopolis,
[33:21]we had a lengthy conversation
[33:23]about the respective driving talents of NASCAR heroes
[33:25]like Denny Hamlin, Kyle Bush, Ryan Blaney
[33:29]and Martin Truex Jr.
[33:31]All right, fine, that's not true.
[33:32]We didn't know a thing.
[33:34]I had managed to negotiate my way into middle age
[33:37]and a sports columnist job
[33:38]would barely a passing knowledge of anything to do
[33:41]with one of America's greatest spectator sports.
[33:44]If you are embarrassed by this ambition,
[33:46]imagine how I feel.
[33:48]It's embarrassing for a person paid to write about sports
[33:51]and not know the difference between Bristol and Talladega
[33:54]or have the first idea what happens when a car rolls
[33:57]into pit road, they pump up the tires.
[34:00]I don't know.
[34:01]I was the worst sort of urban caricature.
[34:04]I too am a flabby dad with opinions about pavement records
[34:07]and overrated $6 pour over ice coffee.
[34:11]I'd fake my way through a few interviews
[34:13]with NASCAR top by asking basic questions.
[34:16]How's your parallel parking?
[34:18]I didn't know anything
[34:19]and it was a little mortifying
[34:21]and probably professionally disqualifying.
[34:23]I admit it, may I couple?
[34:25]Now, please don't ask me about hockey.
[34:28]Jesse was my vessel here.
[34:30]He might have thought he was my Mary plus one,
[34:32]but he was gonna be daddy's portal
[34:34]into the whole Daytona experience.
[34:36]I could write about what it was like to be here,
[34:39]eyes of the child, the whole bit.
[34:41]I could cover Daytona without actually covering Daytona.
[34:45]I could cover it as a dad.
[34:48]Barf, done.
[34:51]Thanks for listening to this episode
[34:52]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[34:54]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[34:56]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[34:59]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[35:02]and sign up for my virtual book club
[35:04]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[35:06]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[35:08]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[35:10]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[35:12]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.