Alison B. Hart, THE WORK WIFE: A Novel
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[0:58]Allison B. Hart is the author of the work-wife a novel
[1:01]Allison B. Hart's writing has appeared in Joyland magazine
[1:04]Lit hub the Missouri Review the millions the offering and the florida review
[1:08]She is the co-founder of the long-running reading series at Pete's Candy Store and received her MFA from the new school
[1:14]She grew up in Los Angeles and now lives in North Carolina with her family
[1:18]The work-wife is her first novel and by the way, it was nominated for a zivi award
[1:23]You can check out the zivi award nominees and winners on ziviowens.com
[1:28]Welcome Allison. Thanks so much for coming on mom. Don't have time to read books to discuss the work-wife
[1:33]Thank you. Thanks for having me. I know you said you just got back from book tour
[1:36]And I was just in Seattle at where was I I think third-place books their two books
[1:41]Anyway, your book was featured so prominently there. So I hope you know
[1:45]I don't know if you ever hear or get like reports from bookstores, but they had like a whole big thing about it
[1:50]So oh, that's awesome. That's wonderful
[1:53]Yeah, bless them
[1:56]Time for thank you. Yeah, I'm kidding. Okay. Okay. Tell listeners. Please wet the work-wife is about sure
[2:02]So the work-wife follows three women
[2:05]It's told from the perspectives of these three women who are in the orbit of this famous director
[2:10]slash movie mogul in Hollywood obviously where you find such people and one is his personal system
[2:17]One is his wife and one is his ex business partner and other types of partners
[2:22]And it's set in one day. It's and it's set in 2019 kind of in the
[2:28]Like well into me too when we're sort of past the like
[2:32]Optimistic purity of like we can bring the whole system down and we're trying to figure out what the consequences will be
[2:38]There's a producer's conference in the morning that some of them have some business at and there's a big fundraising party
[2:45]slash networking party in the evening that they all have some connection too
[2:49]So that's what's about amazing
[2:52]I love the setting of this. I spend a lot of time in LA also and you know
[2:56]You grew up there
[2:57]but just like the day-to-day life of this family and the compound-ish place where they live and
[3:05]How the meetings have to happen by jumping into cars and I don't know
[3:09]It's just it was so glam and like escapist in terms of setting and lifestyle and everything
[3:15]So I just love how you even set the whole thing up. Oh, thank you so much
[3:20]Yeah, it's kind of an unusual
[3:22]Property it's in Pacific Palisades where you know like a lot of famous movie stars have their homes and they're back
[3:29]They're up on a hill backed up against the Santa Monica mountain
[3:32]So they have all this natural area before them and they have behind them and they have a view of the city and then the ocean
[3:38]So it's this really incredible lot
[3:40]But in the back of it behind the like showpiece mansion are all these little cottages where
[3:47]The personal staff does their work
[3:49]So you know they could be doing anything with this like incredible piece of real estate they have they could you know
[3:55]Make wine and sell it, you know or whatever
[3:58]But instead they have all their staffers kind of tucked in like almost like in kennels like handling their business for them
[4:04]So yeah, the the setting was fun to create but also pretty relevant to the story
[4:09]Have you seen a place like this like do you model it after?
[4:14]That's why I love these little cottages
[4:16]It's almost like the Beverly Hills hotel with the little bungalows everywhere, right? I mean, yeah
[4:21]Exactly same the same concept
[4:24]Yeah, well, I love the Palisades. So this is particularly fun to read, but you also do a great job of
[4:31]Getting us in the point of view of the assistant and what that is like and well now
[4:35]She's more than assistant and yeah, angling for chief of staff and all of that and what it means to really run the show from
[4:42]morning till night and I love how you had it in this discreet
[4:46]Timeline because you feel like your heart pounding like how is this all gonna get done and what's gonna happen?
[4:50]And also even shining light on the multiple uses of some of these
[4:55]fundraising type events and you know whether they're elephants or
[5:00]giraffes or whatever to really make them stand out
[5:04]You know what the role of them in society and networking and and everything is too. Yeah
[5:10]Yeah, I mean, it's it's pretty important for Holly like as a host Holly is the wife and the
[5:15]Sort of the lady of the manner. It's pretty important for her from a hosting perspective
[5:19]And this is her pet charity bump to pump which raises you know money and resources for low-income mothers
[5:25]But like from a mathematical standpoint like the amount of money that they are spending on this party versus what they're gonna pull in
[5:32]I don't know how that nets out, you know, like they come up with this jungle nursery style theme
[5:37]So that you have life curious George and then the servers are all the man with the yellow hat
[5:42]And there's Sophie the giraffe and there's Babar and you know all of that and their drinks or Moscow
[5:48]Mules that they're served in these like custom cast little copper baby bottles
[5:53]I mean when I was doing my research and trying to like
[5:56]Come up with some figure that I thought they were spending on that
[6:00]Like on these copper baby bottles, you know
[6:04]You could buy a lot of strollers for your low-income mothers with that money, you know
[6:08]So yeah, it was fun to just putting the party together in my mind was a lot of fun
[6:13]I would like you to plan my next party
[6:16]No, please no
[6:18]I won't you don't even have to do it. You just have to send me all the ideas
[6:22]You know not as out quite as outlandish, but you know
[6:27]But you know, baby to baby is such a big deal out in LA with you know
[6:31]So it is interesting
[6:33]I took my husband to this big fundraiser in New York when he first moved to the city and hadn't been to charity
[6:39]Gala before and he was just like what
[6:42]How is this raising money? We're like at the plaza wherever we were, you know
[6:47]He said I don't get it, and I'm like you know there's and money to make money
[6:50]Yeah, there is there is it does make money
[6:53]And I've been involved with the gallows and I know it seems crazy
[6:56]But you do raise a fortune through the ticket sales and the tables and donations and sponsors and journal ads and it does
[7:04]But still is there a better way to raise all that money? I don't know maybe they haven't found it some yeah, yeah
[7:10]Interesting. I also love the point of view of the three women and the mystery that you
[7:16]Lace in with like what's the relationship with this woman coming in who's like leaving her husband and home to
[7:22]Dash off to this conference. Why is this so important and how you just set the whole thing up
[7:28]Tell me about how you came up with this whole story and also the different women like how did you
[7:35]Just tell me all about about the character or so when I first told the story
[7:39]I told it all from one point of view and that was Sam the personal assistant because that's something
[7:44]I knew a lot about having been a personal assistant in my past although
[7:48]This work fiction
[7:50]Completely made it up. I worked for very lovely people and I worked with lovely people. So
[7:55]But yeah, so I
[7:58]Definitely related to her and that like the the front frenetic energy that you have to have where like
[8:04]Crazy things are being heaped on your plate throughout the day
[8:08]And you just have to like keep spinning the plates, you know
[8:12]So I wrote it. I wrote the whole thing from her perspective and then pretty much as soon as I got to the end
[8:17]I knew it needed to be two perspectives because there were too many things that Phoebe who sort of you know this woman from Ted's past
[8:25]There were too many things where I was sort of having to pretzel myself to get it into like to kind of reason for
[8:31]Zan to know that Phoebe would know this or you know, so I went back and I
[8:36]Re-outlined it and they did the whole thing as a two perspective thing and then once my editor came on board
[8:42]She said, you know, should we have
[8:45]In there and Holly of course was always a very important character
[8:48]But I didn't like originally I didn't want to be in Holly and her husband Ted's
[8:53]Minds because I felt like you know they they already have so much cultural power
[8:59]like do we need to like
[9:01]Do we need to be in Holly's mind as well
[9:04]But I did see the argument that it would be good to have you know
[9:07]One way of looking from inside this very crowded marriage
[9:11]That's you know this couple and then there are 30 staffers
[9:14]So then I went back and I and I added Holly's perspective
[9:17]Which I'm really glad I did it was actually really fun and helpful to get her head. I loved her
[9:23]Parts
[9:26]Just curious was this always the title or did you change it or what?
[9:30]We changed it. Yeah, so when I sent it out on submission. I was calling it happy to help
[9:36]I like that which was you know
[9:39]Fan being this personal assistant and sort of like saying cheerily saying yes to everything
[9:44]But also you know talking about just sort of like the emotional labor that all women do
[9:49]Which I think is a pretty big theme in the book
[9:52]But my editors suggested the work wife and I
[9:55]Think it kind of I think it's better and I think it also covers
[10:00]that same territory of the emotional work
[10:02]that women do for men, for their families,
[10:07]for other women, we have we got a lot of labor going on.
[10:11]And was that one of the driving forces
[10:13]and sort of the reason why you've talked about this
[10:16]act of the man and what he, you know,
[10:19]the repercussions of someone's actions on women
[10:23]was that the driving, did you wanna explore that
[10:25]as a colonel and then got the story
[10:27]or how did it come about?
[10:29]Yeah, I mean, I think that came in pretty early.
[10:33]You know, when I was a younger writer,
[10:35]I don't think I worried so much about the period of time
[10:38]when I was setting things.
[10:39]And then as I got older, I felt like that's really crazy.
[10:41]If you don't have a pretty strong notion
[10:44]of like when in history this is happening,
[10:46]like you haven't thought something through
[10:48]and it just didn't feel like me anymore to do that.
[10:51]So I knew I was gonna be setting it in me too
[10:55]and kind of still within the Trump presidency,
[10:57]although Trump has never mentioned,
[10:58]but kind of in this weird time in history.
[11:02]And so, you know, there's another character in the book
[11:05]who is, you know, a really, you know,
[11:08]a really violent damaging man.
[11:11]Ted Stabler is not that, you know, he's not brutal,
[11:15]he's not violent or anything.
[11:17]But there's a lot of stuff that because of,
[11:20]because of his money and his power,
[11:21]he's able to get other people to handle for him
[11:24]and to make things very smooth for him.
[11:27]So that he doesn't have to bother with stuff.
[11:29]And I think with not bothering with relationships
[11:32]and his impact on people,
[11:33]he doesn't really have to look at the consequences
[11:36]of what he was doing.
[11:37]So I was wanting to look at like that more subtle thing
[11:41]where he really could have a big impact
[11:44]in a damaging impact on somebody's life
[11:47]without being, you know, in me too monster,
[11:50]which is interesting.
[11:52]Tell me about how you got here to this novel,
[11:55]like tell me about your life and where you grew up
[11:57]and your love of writing and reading and all that stuff.
[12:00]Yeah. So I grew up in California outside of LA,
[12:04]not quite as far outside of LA as Holly grew up,
[12:07]but that direction for sure.
[12:10]And, you know, I mean, I wrote when I was a kid,
[12:12]but I didn't really kind of know that I was writing
[12:15]with like a capital W.
[12:17]It was just something that I did,
[12:18]but I didn't really have models in my own life
[12:20]of like what, you know, being a writer could look like.
[12:23]So I just did it because it was fun
[12:25]you know, whenever I had an extra journal lying around,
[12:28]I would start to write a story very derivative things.
[12:31]Like, I think I wrote something that was like
[12:33]tales of the fifth grade, everything.
[12:35]Oh, I like that, I got blessed to you below.
[12:40]So, but then we moved away when I was in 19 years
[12:44]and I eventually went back to California for college.
[12:47]And that's where I took my first writing class.
[12:49]I was pre-med and sort of getting close to needing
[12:53]to take like my MCATs and thinking about applying places.
[12:56]And I just was like putting the brakes on and knew
[12:59]that it wasn't right for me.
[13:01]And I took my first writing class
[13:02]and kind of changed everything for me.
[13:04]So everything after that has been just like
[13:08]such a strange process of trying to feel,
[13:10]again, still feeling my way to like,
[13:11]what does it mean to be a writer?
[13:13]How do you actually do that?
[13:15]You know, a few years later after college,
[13:18]I eventually went and got my MFA.
[13:20]But even so, okay, great, I have this degree,
[13:22]but I still need to like write the book,
[13:24]but also like support myself.
[13:26]And so it was a lot of time writing,
[13:30]trying to like believe I could finish a book.
[13:33]And then when you finish a book,
[13:34]then trying to sell it and having books
[13:37]that weren't selling, you know, like I loved them.
[13:39]But it's just it's hard out there for writers.
[13:42]So, you know, this is not my first book,
[13:44]but I'm so happy that I kept at it
[13:47]because, you know, eventually, eventually went up.
[13:51]Yeah.
[13:51]I feel like you have to write at least two full novels
[13:54]before you can like, I think to be able to do it,
[13:57]you have to practice.
[14:00]Yeah.
[14:00]I hear it over and over and over again.
[14:02]And I think the magic number is three.
[14:04]This is my theory.
[14:05]Okay.
[14:06]Oh, go that.
[14:08]How many did you write?
[14:10]Well, it was my fourth submission.
[14:13]Okay.
[14:14]You know, I think this book went out twice.
[14:17]And I actually, I had told,
[14:18]I had worked with some of these characters
[14:20]and the first time that I took a crack at writing about it.
[14:22]I was writing about them in short stories.
[14:24]And I was trying to put together a linked collection of stories,
[14:28]kind of like a bazette from the food squad.
[14:30]So that was my first generation,
[14:32]which I loved.
[14:33]It was very different.
[14:34]Each story was like looking at like the theme of a marriage
[14:37]and what's happening in all these marriages.
[14:38]So you still had Ted and Holly and you had Zann and Gabby,
[14:43]but then it rippled out to all these other different characters.
[14:46]But yeah, wasn't to be, you know,
[14:47]we already had a bazette from the squad.
[14:49]You did that.
[14:51]And I take on it.
[14:53]Shoot, she just snatched that up, right?
[14:56]Right, out of your fingers, you know.
[14:59]And what are you working on now?
[15:00]So I'm working on another novel.
[15:02]It's about four adult siblings
[15:04]because I'm sort of super fascinated
[15:07]in that sibling relationship.
[15:08]Relationship I have with my siblings,
[15:10]not that I'm, again, won't be about us.
[15:12]But I just think that's such an unusual relationship
[15:16]in your life.
[15:16]You're going to know these people your whole life,
[15:19]but you actually may be spending so much time
[15:21]with other people in your life.
[15:22]I know like it's a relationship
[15:24]that can get very compressed
[15:26]and then can get very distant
[15:27]and kind of keeps doing this like accordion like thing.
[15:30]So it's about these four adult siblings
[15:32]and their father is kidnapped.
[15:34]They never find him.
[15:36]They don't know what's happened.
[15:37]And 10 years later, there's a new clue
[15:40]and they have to come together
[15:41]and try to find out what happened to him.
[15:44]What number are you?
[15:45]Are you one or four?
[15:46]I'm one of three.
[15:48]Yeah.
[15:48]So I have two big brothers and I'm the baby.
[15:51]So in this, there's three big sisters
[15:54]and the boy is the baby
[15:55]just to like completely break the link
[15:57]in my head to me thinking I'm writing about my brothers.
[16:00]Let's not do that.
[16:02]Interesting.
[16:03]And tell me about your recent book tour.
[16:05]What was that like?
[16:07]It was fun.
[16:07]Where'd you go?
[16:08]Like what were you?
[16:09]So we went to New York first,
[16:11]which is where I lived before.
[16:12]I'm in North Carolina now,
[16:13]but before that I was in Brooklyn
[16:15]and my husband and I were there for a long time.
[16:17]So we went there and did a few readings
[16:19]and I did a virtual one
[16:20]and the day of virtual readings as well.
[16:22]A couple in person and one virtual.
[16:24]And then we came,
[16:25]the next week we came back down here
[16:27]and I did a couple of readings here.
[16:28]So it's kind of like everywhere I'm going,
[16:30]I'm having another hometown launch
[16:31]but like from my other hometown.
[16:33]Yeah.
[16:34]And then two nights ago,
[16:36]I went to Tulsa and I did a reading there
[16:38]because in high school,
[16:39]that's where my family lived.
[16:40]That's so yeah.
[16:42]So that was really fun
[16:43]in the blast from the past two.
[16:45]What ideas do you have about book touring?
[16:47]I've been thinking a lot about this
[16:49]having just like done a few events for my own book
[16:51]and how we can like mix things up.
[16:54]I mean, I feel like sometimes I go to these events
[16:57]or I travel or whatever.
[16:59]And it's like not that many people show up maybe
[17:01]or not that I don't know.
[17:03]I'm like, is this efficient?
[17:04]Is this a good use of author's time?
[17:07]Yeah.
[17:07]I don't know.
[17:08]What do you think about touring?
[17:09]Yeah.
[17:10]I mean, it's so interesting
[17:11]because back in the day,
[17:12]people used to have these very long tours
[17:14]and went all over and now it's my house at least
[17:18]really want to have a tighter focus on these things.
[17:21]And I do think it's a lot of going places
[17:24]where you have connections
[17:25]and you can have your friends come out and support you.
[17:29]You know, like Tulsa was like the one wild card on my tour
[17:34]where I added it kind of cause I really wanted
[17:37]to just try and see what happened.
[17:38]I had called the bookstore just to introduce myself
[17:41]and let them know like, you know, I grew up out there.
[17:44]And they said, oh, well, you know, you should come
[17:46]and I thought, gosh, is this gonna be okay?
[17:49]Well, I have enough people come out
[17:50]but they told me they had some pre-orders for it
[17:53]probably from my friends.
[17:55]Right.
[17:57]I was like, okay.
[17:58]And I guess I just thought of it as like,
[18:00]let me with my first book, like,
[18:02]start to build a relationship with this city, you know?
[18:07]And I will say that there is always somebody in the room
[18:11]that I didn't bring there.
[18:13]You know, it's mostly a lot of people
[18:15]that I know from one corner of my life or another,
[18:17]but there's always somebody that is coming.
[18:20]And so I don't know, I used to run a reading series
[18:23]in Brooklyn for a really long time.
[18:25]So in that place, we were in a bar.
[18:28]And so we had a lot of people that were coming
[18:31]not because they had a relationship with that writer
[18:34]just because you want to sit in that dark space
[18:37]and like have somebody tell you a story
[18:39]where there's reading.
[18:40]And you know, there was something really just sort of sacred
[18:43]about that kind of community.
[18:45]So I don't know, I'm interested in this too.
[18:48]These, I think these one author events can be kind of
[18:51]like hit or miss with who's gonna come,
[18:54]but there's something about being in a room
[18:56]and being together with other readers
[18:59]and hearing stories that's still really special.
[19:01]So I hope we keep it.
[19:03]Yeah, some iteration of it for sure.
[19:06]No, I think there's power in getting people together.
[19:08]I'm sure, especially now.
[19:10]Yeah, especially now.
[19:12]Just seems inefficient that we're all like racing around
[19:14]trying to capture readers.
[19:16]Do you like, like, I like, you know, those lines
[19:21]that used to be in old airplane magazines
[19:22]where you would see the flights like all Christopher
[19:25]were like in sleepless and Seattle.
[19:27]Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[19:28]Yeah, I just seems like there should be better ways
[19:31]to, yeah, resources, but anyway.
[19:33]And you're traveling a lot.
[19:35]Not too, I mean, not too much.
[19:36]I'm mostly done.
[19:37]Everything else I can drive to,
[19:39]but I did a few trips,
[19:40]but also it's also fun.
[19:42]Like I had never been to Nashville in Seattle.
[19:44]And, you know, like it was just fun for my husband
[19:47]and me to go and check it out.
[19:49]And yeah, you know, meet other people
[19:51]and yeah, connect with friends.
[19:52]And yeah, so there's a lot of other,
[19:55]you can't just go for like the one event.
[19:57]Right, there has to be something else behind it.
[20:00]So for your next book, are you alternating viewpoints again with the siblings?
[20:05]Yeah, I will.
[20:07]I like that style that works really well for me, not say I'll always do it.
[20:12]And I know that there's like a trade-off that you make, you know,
[20:16]when you're with one character the entire time.
[20:19]But, you know, the thing that I started with the way I started putting stories together when I was a kid
[20:25]was honestly soap operas.
[20:27]That is like a huge soap opera nut.
[20:29]And I just like, I loved like they're being this cast of characters that were around town.
[20:33]And each day when you would tune in, there would be a certain subset of people that you were going to be looking at that you didn't get to choose who they were.
[20:40]And then, you know, from commercial break to commercial break, you would flip back and forth to them.
[20:45]And then the next day would be a slightly different mix of what the characters are.
[20:48]And I think my brain was kind of response to that.
[20:51]So, yeah, for this one with the siblings, it just feels really natural that I would be spending time with each of the four siblings.
[20:57]Yeah. Did you read Jonathan Trappers? This is where I leave you.
[21:01]No, you should do it too.
[21:04]It's about four adult siblings who go back home.
[21:07]It's their, I think it was their father, I read it a long time ago.
[21:10]I think their father passed away and they were home for the Shiva.
[21:12]And it takes place over the Shiva.
[21:14]But it was a lot about relationships of adults and rings.
[21:18]Yeah, I don't know if we could think of that.
[21:19]I'm reading Dava Shastries last day, right?
[21:21]Oh, yeah.
[21:22]Yep.
[21:23]She also has the four siblings.
[21:24]Like, you know, that one goes really in and out of people's heads all the time.
[21:28]It's almost like, and this is now the way where you can go in and out of her head and then the person walking by her in the park and then you come back.
[21:34]So, it's less regimented, but it's really fun.
[21:37]Very cool.
[21:38]And what do you do when you're not working?
[21:40]Well, it's daughter and I have a dog and I feel like I'm going wherever they leave me.
[21:46]So, while I was away on this last tour stop, my daughter, who is like in adult rooms of summer got really into like chores.
[21:54]Like, okay, well, give me some chores.
[21:55]I'll do the chores.
[21:56]And so this morning, she set her alarm at 6am and she got up and she like made everybody breakfast and she made me tea.
[22:04]How old did she?
[22:05]She's 11.
[22:06]Okay.
[22:07]All right.
[22:08]Last for like two days.
[22:09]And then she like put all, she started to unpack my stuff and put my toiletries where she thought I would need them.
[22:14]to like and kind of like, okay, get up.
[22:16]Okay, go get dressed.
[22:17]You're closed over there.
[22:18]Go, go, go.
[22:19]And so I think it's just I just I follow the dictates of my daughter.
[22:24]I love that.
[22:26]Oh, my gosh.
[22:27]I have not had any of my kids do anything like that.
[22:29]So I'm going to have to tell that.
[22:31]Here's my suitcase.
[22:33]Let's let's get out of here.
[22:35]Yeah.
[22:36]This is fun game.
[22:37]Let's unpack.
[22:38]Mama.
[22:39]Yeah.
[22:40]Really fun.
[22:41]Okay.
[22:42]So what advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[22:43]Yeah.
[22:44]I guess the is just I mean what you've said it to like it takes practice like it just takes time.
[22:50]I think that thing that I request says is really helpful to like keep in mind, which is there's going to be a gap when you start between like what you the vision you have in your mind and your ability to like reproduce that.
[23:03]But even with practice like it will always be a little bit different than how you pictured it, but that can still be sort of wonderful.
[23:10]And, you know, I'm somebody who I'm sort of up for revising all the time.
[23:16]Like if there's a good idea, I want to try and incorporate it.
[23:20]I won't revise just for revision sake and to do something that's away from taking me away from what my goal was with the book.
[23:27]But I think, you know, just knowing like there's a certain I can get the book so far on my own and be like, okay, I did everything that I knew how to do.
[23:37]And then you give it to a reader and like having that discussion with the reader about it inevitably produces more ideas and helps me realize like, okay, right.
[23:48]And then to do that, but I don't think I quite did it the wet quite right if you're seeing this other thing.
[23:53]So just finding people that can that can, you know, you can give your work to at the right time when it's done when you've done everything that you can because they'll always be another round that you can come.
[24:06]to with it and make it better.
[24:08]Awesome.
[24:09]Well, Allison, thank you. Thank you for the work wife.
[24:12]Really much.
[24:13]And it was so nice to meet you.
[24:15]Yeah, nice to meet you too. Thank you so much for having me.
[24:18]Okay. All right, take it.
[24:19]Bye bye.
[24:21]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:24]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibioens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:29]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibioens.com
[24:32]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:36]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[24:40]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.