Paulina Porizkova, NO FILTER: The Good, the Bad, and the Beautiful
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
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[0:58]Paulina Poroscova is the author of no filter the good the bad and the beautiful by the way
[1:04]I loved this book and I've known about obviously Paulina because she's been a model and an actress and everything
[1:09]But we really connected on this podcast and I loved talking to her and all of her Instagram posts
[1:15]If you are not following her at Paulina Poroscova are amazing and authentic and real and she talks about aging and authenticity
[1:22]And she just tells it like it is which I love
[1:26]So anyway, this is her bio and be sure to pick up no filter the good the bad and the beautiful
[1:31]Paulina Poroscova is a Czechoslovak born writer a former model
[1:35]She was the first central European woman to appear on the cover of the sports illustrated swimsuit issue in 1984
[1:41]In 1988 she became one of the highest paid models in the world as the face of Estee Lauder
[1:46]She has starred in 16 movies and a slew of TV shows as an actress and she has served as part of the judging panel
[1:53]On cycle 10 of America's next top model her debut novel a model summer was published in 2007
[1:59]This is her nonfiction debut
[2:01]Welcome Paulina. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss your absolutely beautiful book
[2:07]No filter the good the bad and the beautiful
[2:10]Hello, and thank you for having me so please do be here. Oh
[2:15]I literally dog year like I don't know if you can see this every other page you had so many
[2:20]poignant really heartfelt moments you left nothing on the table. You were so open and
[2:27]I learned so much about you and
[2:29]Your loss and grief and heartbreak and all the rest and so I just wanted to say
[2:34]Thank you
[2:34]I know in the back you said you wrote it in like three months or something crazy
[2:38]Write it in three. Oh my gosh, so tell me the whole genesis of this project and everything else
[2:44]Okay, well first of all just thank you. Thank you for reading it and and and and I guess like I
[2:50]Don't know how I can thank you for for liking it because it wouldn't really be your fault if you didn't but thank you
[2:55]Anyways, I so appreciate it because you know when obviously when we write a book
[3:00]It's you know, it's pouring out your insides to the outside and the reception of their office is it works differently than like
[3:10]You know judging you from the outside and going well
[3:12]You're too old or you're not pretty enough or you're not tall enough or you're too fat or whatever
[3:17]It's you know, it's got so much more weight when it's
[3:20]When it's your insights that you're letting the outside world see so how this book came about was it was actually
[3:27]Maria Shriver contacted me kind of out of the blue. I didn't know I mean of course
[3:31]I know Maria Shriver is but I didn't really know her personally and she contacted me because she
[3:38]Followed me on Instagram and she said hey
[3:42]How would you feel about writing a book for me for my new imprint?
[3:46]You know when she has an imprint called the open field where she publishes only a few books a year with a few
[3:53]I don't have the exact number
[3:55]But she wants to sort of publish books that will make the world a better place and she was
[4:02]I hadn't gotten like 20 agents contacting me and asking me for like a memoir tell all nothing like that's never going to happen
[4:10]And that will you know, I'm not old enough to write a tell all thank you very much
[4:15]And she and Maria sort of approached it with like I would like you to do it
[4:19]Sort of the way that you do your instagram
[4:21]You know like write about the stuff that you write about on Instagram about your beauty about beauty about grief about you know
[4:28]Your perspective as little age woman and starting over
[4:33]And that got me really inspired. I thought that I can do like oh my god
[4:38]That that that could be really fun
[4:41]Then I went into the jungle to join a reality TV show
[4:45]Where I had like no food no sleep and completely wrecked my already not great hips
[4:53]And when came back was right before Christmas. I mean like right before December
[4:58]And I couldn't walk I like I couldn't walk upstairs. I was so
[5:02]Screwed from this physical experience and then Maria kind of came in and said okay
[5:08]Do you want to sign the contract and can you deliver March 1st which gave me exactly three months to finish the book?
[5:14]And I thought well, I'm not able to walk or do anything else so
[5:19]So yes, because I also can't refuse a challenge. I think I'm a little
[5:24]I think I'm I have a problem like if you challenge me
[5:28]I have to I will do any challenge that I'm
[5:32]Faced with so so I took it on and and and did it
[5:36]I mean I had like no days off
[5:38]I woke up and I wrote until my brain turned off and sometimes in the late afternoon or early evening for three months straight
[5:46]No, no breaks no weekends nothing just wrote
[5:51]And there you have it. That's the story of how I wrote my book
[5:56]What was it like revisiting? I mean there are a lot of chapters or short essays in here
[6:01]That are just so emotional and you talk so much about what it was like to lose your
[6:09]Husband from whom you had been separated what happened after
[6:13]The very public cutting out of you of his will and how you had to deal with that and
[6:19]Not to mention the the private pain
[6:21]But also the public
[6:23]Issues that come with being a public figure
[6:25]I just imagine
[6:27]Some of these chapters you must have been just sitting there with like tears pouring down your face
[6:30]Were you or is that just my imagination?
[6:33]You know what that's a really good question
[6:35]No, I don't think I was writing anything with tears pouring down my face because
[6:41]I think this is true for a lot of authors and and it's that you you
[6:46]You take the outside
[6:47]You know the events from the outside and you pull them in and you sort of have to marinate them
[6:53]Like they have to turn into fertilizer
[6:56]You know inside you and so I have been in the process of
[7:00]Converting all this external information that
[7:05]You know changed my life and had me starting up from from zero basically for
[7:10]Two and a half years when I sat down to write the book
[7:14]So the events had sort of they had become done. They were they were they were they were I had processed them
[7:21]And so now I just had to put them
[7:24]on paper and try to be as
[7:27]Honest as I could so because I wanted you to be able to share my experience with me
[7:32]I mean, I feel like that was the whole point of it's it is the whole point of my writing whether
[7:37]I'm writing for Instagram or whether I'm writing an article or a you know, whether I'm writing a book is
[7:42]I want to pull you in with me. I want to pull you into my brain with me
[7:47]and so then the the challenge was really just
[7:51]the actual words, you know like
[7:53]The actual metaphor and the simile and the you know am I describing this the way that
[7:59]Where I feel like I can beat you
[8:01]Do you know and it didn't it wasn't until I was reporting the audio version of it which was a week ago
[8:08]Where I actually got to read
[8:11]Why I read the book out loud anyway because that's what you do right make sure that everything flows right
[8:17]I sat down to actually read the finished work and it was with
[8:23]The emotions that I wrote it with and that's when I started choking up when I was reading and then I thought to myself
[8:30]Kind of padded myself full not having went. Yeah, it has
[8:35]If it's like I when I'm reading it and and and I have to catch myself because I'm having a hard time
[8:42]Breathing and tears are welling up then I access the emotion that I meant to access. Yes
[8:49]I wasn't really a long answer to or
[8:53]Totally fine. Actually, it it goes with what you say in the book about how you got through grief and heartbreak to begin with
[9:00]Which is that by analyzing it that was your only way was to somehow like set it apart
[9:06]Intellectualize it see it and then you were able to like take your first steps through it
[9:11]Exactly
[9:13]You actually might be the first person that that actually
[9:16]Spotted that that that took that that got that and it's absolutely accurate. Yeah
[9:22]There was no other way to do things
[9:25]Yeah, here. No, the way you wrote about grief and I like many other people have been through grief myself
[9:30]And so I feel like I'm particularly attuned to how other people experience it and ways that they write about it and I
[9:37]I love to read about it and I don't know
[9:39]I'm like a glutton for punishment, but anyway, but you write hold on
[9:42]I want to find the passage that was particularly beautiful. Is it okay if I read paragraph or two
[9:47]I you have no idea how it's real land. Okay
[9:50]And you probably relate to this because you said I read every book on heartbreak
[9:53]I could find all the books advised me to distract myself take Dan's classes travel go out with your friends
[9:58]But none of these things were possible
[10:00]Now that a pandemic had shut down the world,
[10:01]my friends and family had already born a year of my grief
[10:03]and they were also isolated and unhappy,
[10:06]calling them to cry again seemed selfish.
[10:08]Everyone was suffering, people were dying.
[10:10]My heart raked all the importance of a summer cold,
[10:12]but that didn't make it hurt any less.
[10:14]There were only two pieces of wisdom from all the books
[10:16]that I really found helpful.
[10:18]One advised me to change my ex-boyfriend's name on my phone
[10:20]so he became Mr. emotionally unavailable.
[10:23]The second was from a Buddhist book
[10:25]that advised me to allow myself to give into my pain
[10:27]physically trace it.
[10:28]Where does this start?
[10:29]How does it feel?
[10:30]Observing the pain gave me respite
[10:32]from thinking about the cause of the pain.
[10:34]I noticed that the pain formed in my chest
[10:36]and radiated up my throat into the back of my mouth
[10:39]and my nose to spill over into my eyeballs.
[10:42]While the physical pain of grief feels like a tall,
[10:44]strong, cold person gripping you from behind,
[10:47]arms crossed over your chest and forcing your air out.
[10:50]The pain of heartbreak is more immediate.
[10:52]It is someone plunging their hand into your chest,
[10:55]taking a hold of your heart and crushing it
[10:58]between their fingers.
[11:00]Wow, that is powerful stuff.
[11:02]And right now I'm rolling up with tears,
[11:05]which seems kind of like in the brokerage
[11:09]you're reading my words, I'm sorry.
[11:11]No, don't be silly.
[11:12]I, you know, when I wrote that,
[11:14]like when I wrote that, I was still hurting so badly
[11:18]when I wrote that.
[11:19]And the fact that there's one person in the world
[11:22]who that resonates with is such a gift.
[11:26]I mean, it's, I'm gonna start crying.
[11:28]So that's what I give that is.
[11:31]Thank you.
[11:32]No, it, I mean, so much of this resonated with me
[11:35]and so much was well resonated with so many other people
[11:39]in addition to all of the really deeply emotional stuff
[11:42]that you haven't here.
[11:43]You also gave me a really interesting look
[11:47]at what your early life and what life in the Czechoslovakia
[11:51]was like.
[11:52]Your chapter occupation, which comes later in the book,
[11:55]I found absolutely fascinating
[11:56]because you talk about being a young girl
[11:58]in Czechoslovakia and also, by the way,
[12:00]your whole thing where you became this well-known girl
[12:04]trying to flee and go to Sweden
[12:06]and oh my gosh, what a crazy upbringing you've had.
[12:08]But how you then, so you tell us all about what it's like
[12:12]living in this communist country
[12:14]and having, you know, being afraid to turn in your parents
[12:17]when they say something anti-Russian
[12:19]and what like living with that fear.
[12:21]And then how you extrapolate that onto your relationships
[12:25]and how this feeling of occupation actually makes you feel
[12:28]secure because it's so familiar
[12:30]and what that does to your relationships.
[12:31]Like talk about that.
[12:32]Wow, well, you know what?
[12:33]This essay, that's funny because this essay
[12:37]kind of poured out of me when I was,
[12:39]I had gone to Israel for a wedding
[12:41]while writing every day.
[12:43]This is when Ukraine was invaded by Russia.
[12:45]And when I heard that news, it just,
[12:49]I mean, you know, it does things to you.
[12:51]It's like, this is like my life kind of coming back to me
[12:55]and then looking at the Ukrainians and going,
[12:57]oh my God, it's happening again.
[12:58]And that I didn't foresee it was going to happen
[13:02]in my lifetime again.
[13:03]And so it just brought all this up.
[13:05]It just brought all this, all these feelings and all of that up.
[13:09]And I had, I wrote it just as an occupation of, you know,
[13:14]of the soul and the mind and how dangerous propaganda is
[13:19]and how dangerous what the real danger of occupations are.
[13:24]And the end, which, where I kind of,
[13:27]that, where I circled around to relationships
[13:30]and occupation, that was like the very last little bit,
[13:34]like I was finished with the essay.
[13:37]And it was my editor and my reader, Kerry Egan,
[13:41]who read it and she said, is there something more,
[13:44]if you look, there's something more to it,
[13:46]like there's something more, like think about it for a second
[13:50]and then I just kind of clicked in my mind.
[13:52]Oh my God, this is how it ties into the rest of my life
[13:56]and the rest of, and also my book.
[13:58]And funnily enough that my, my friend and Patrick,
[14:01]who was kind enough to give me a really awesome blurb,
[14:04]that was her favorite essay.
[14:06]She said that was like the way you circled around to that,
[14:09]just kind of blew my mind.
[14:11]And it was accidental, like most things in my life.
[14:16]It was completely un-premeditated.
[14:18]And it's just, you know, you leave yourself open and vulnerable
[14:23]and things come out.
[14:25]And especially when you have the benefit of somebody
[14:28]prodding you a little bit and going,
[14:30]think about it a little more.
[14:32]What else do you think?
[14:34]What else is there?
[14:36]It's kind of like therapy.
[14:37]Yeah, I was gonna say, I want your editor
[14:40]to like talk to me for 16, 15 minutes a week.
[14:43]Is that,
[14:44]I mean, how and truly, she actually did a lot of that
[14:48]during this book because I was on such a short timeline.
[14:51]I needed somebody to read this stuff and go,
[14:55]yeah, you know, this sucks.
[14:58]This is good.
[14:59]Well, this way do not go this way.
[15:02]But back to the occupation part,
[15:05]when I wrote those words,
[15:06]I didn't even know how true they were.
[15:08]And I just like literally just caught myself like,
[15:11]baby yesterday, you know, again,
[15:13]I'm out there dating and doing all of this stuff again.
[15:20]And realizing how vulnerable I am to love for me.
[15:26]You know that term?
[15:27]Yes.
[15:28]And I was like, oh, damn, I fell for it every time.
[15:33]And then I think that, and that's, you know,
[15:35]that hooks back into this like sense of being safe.
[15:40]Like I take you, I claim you, you're now mine.
[15:46]And then we still represent safety or represented
[15:51]or emotionally it still does.
[15:53]And as logically I'm looking at it from the outside
[15:56]going be careful, be careful
[15:58]because you're going back into that same groove
[16:01]that is actually dangerous.
[16:03]That is not what you want.
[16:04]So I'm still struggling with it.
[16:07]Like logically I know all this stuff emotionally
[16:10]I'm still trying to get stronger.
[16:13]As in that, that's the way it always goes, you know,
[16:16]right?
[16:17]At least you get the first, you got through the first part.
[16:20]So here's my question.
[16:21]Do you read Palms Over Zoom?
[16:25]Ha, no, sorry, I can't see it in the middle of all.
[16:28]Oh my gosh, I was like, I wonder if she could tell me
[16:31]that when you send that, and first for context
[16:34]from people listening.
[16:35]So you read Palms.
[16:37]And even though it's not the way it goes
[16:39]necessarily in guidebooks, you have your own system
[16:41]and you had someone who you told might not live that long
[16:46]and then like died the next day in that car crash,
[16:48]which by the way, you should have seen me like in bed,
[16:50]like reading your back thing.
[16:51]Like, you know, I can't believe that happened.
[16:54]But what, that's a gift too.
[16:56]Do you still do that?
[16:57]Do you still read people's Palms?
[16:58]Like still do that.
[17:01]And if I, and especially if it's somebody,
[17:04]well, I mean, I'm happy to do it for anybody.
[17:07]There's, you know, if there's time, and if the,
[17:09]if the place is right, but I don't think I could,
[17:12]I don't think I could find a partner
[17:15]without first checking their hands at this point.
[17:19]Which is a little embarrassing because it's again.
[17:23]Like I say in my book, I'm not even sure how much,
[17:26]how much I believe it or how much faith I put into it.
[17:30]I mean, I am aware that this is, you know,
[17:32]one of these faith-guided things.
[17:35]It's not science for sure.
[17:38]And how much barrier to do I want to give this.
[17:42]But unfortunately, it hasn't failed me in the past.
[17:45]And like, I know which, I wish it had.
[17:48]But I'm a little bit more on the fence about it.
[17:51]Instead of like the more I read, the more I think,
[17:54]oh, damn, it seems to, seems to be accurate.
[17:58]It seems to work.
[18:00]Well, maybe, maybe you could somehow tie that
[18:01]into your book tour, you know, book tour and readings.
[18:05]Yeah, that's right.
[18:08]It's a really long time.
[18:10]That would be a long signing line, but, you know.
[18:12]Fair enough.
[18:14]Well, I would be remiss without discussing beauty and aging
[18:17]a little bit because, you know,
[18:19]as an aging middle-aged woman.
[18:21]I mean, we're all aging, right.
[18:22]But of course, this is very top of mind
[18:24]and in your chapter when you were describing, you know,
[18:27]all the lasers and how you were in your jammies,
[18:29]you know, with your big glasses for the UPS guy or whatever.
[18:32]And you're like, why do I do this?
[18:34]Why am I subjecting myself to this?
[18:37]And by the way, your skin looks amazing.
[18:38]So whatever you did.
[18:39]Like, thank you.
[18:40]Okay, there was nothing more important than good light.
[18:45]Yeah.
[18:46]So talk to me for a minute, just about, you know,
[18:49]you have this literally like the siren call
[18:52]for women aging in the back of this book.
[18:55]Like, if anyone is ever feeling worried or sad
[19:00]or discouraged about their changing body,
[19:03]you have several pages, literally,
[19:04]as if you were talking to me or to anyone.
[19:07]Like, there's a reason, like your laugh lines
[19:10]or to be celebrated, it means you've had,
[19:12]I mean, it was a beautiful, beautiful, powerful.
[19:15]Like, I don't even know, mandate to appreciate age
[19:18]and what it does to our bodies.
[19:20]So tell me about your views on that.
[19:23]Oh, God, it's so funny because it's like,
[19:25]I have so many and yet it, well, I think mostly
[19:30]because I'm still also in the process of battling with it.
[19:34]You know, it's like I'm not done learning here either.
[19:38]I was actually just trying to write a post about it
[19:41]for Instagram today about how,
[19:44]so obviously in the book, I'm talking about how,
[19:48]and I really do feel this,
[19:49]that you really feel the objectification of women
[19:54]in how we're not allowed to age, looking wise,
[19:57]how we're not supposed to look older.
[20:00]And that's, like, that's being objectified as a piece of art, or as a thing, right?
[20:04]Because nature is forever changing.
[20:06]So nature, which is what we are, is dismissed.
[20:10]And we are being objectified.
[20:13]We're not allowed to change, although the change is nothing but natural.
[20:18]And that change is not celebrated.
[20:20]It's frowned upon.
[20:22]So that's kind of like, that's in the, that's always in the back of my mind.
[20:26]It's like, but this is a natural process.
[20:29]Like, what would happen if we celebrated that process instead of put it down?
[20:34]What if we, instead of trying to hide it, we're highlighting it, you know, call of this stuff?
[20:39]But then, of course, you have, there's so many conflicting pieces of information and society
[20:48]where, at the same time, women that, you know, want to feel better about themselves,
[20:53]and want to feel more confident, do things like, I do too.
[20:57]lasers and, you know, and some do both talks and fillers and facelits and whatever to
[21:01]stave off the aging process.
[21:05]And I used to be very judgmental with it when I was younger, because I was younger and I was an
[21:09]idiot.
[21:12]Truly.
[21:13]And now that I'm, you know, 57 and I'm like, oh, oh, I see.
[21:18]I see what is going on here.
[21:21]It's just, it's a desire for us not to be dismissed from the main table because of the way we
[21:27]look. And it's like, by purchasing a little bit more youth, we get to stay around and, and get
[21:35]heard and be seen, like, who's okay with being dismissed, you know?
[21:41]And so, and as a woman, you're like kind of screwed both ways, aren't you?
[21:46]Because if you do do interventions, then you're not embracing your inner beauty and your confidence
[21:52]as a woman, and you're setting back all the other women that are trying to.
[21:57]And if you're aging naturally, well, then you get dismissed from the table and then you have to
[22:02]become a loud mouth, then you have to like stop and yell and go, hey, attention over a year.
[22:07]So like, you can't win either way.
[22:09]And that's not, that's like, that's society.
[22:13]That's history, that's culture.
[22:15]There's so many things involved in that that sometimes I feel like, you know,
[22:20]I was being called an ageist advocate and then I think, well, if you have a kind of like,
[22:25]I'm, I'm just one person, like, I can't change the entire view of our society,
[22:31]just like by myself here.
[22:33]And so I will cave, you know, I do, I do have a little holes burning around my eyes and
[22:39]hopes to grow a little more collagen and I go and do whatever lasers that are on offer that
[22:45]promise me a slightly smoother skin in the hopes of not being dismissed so easily.
[22:51]And I can't tell you where I'm at with that.
[22:53]Like, I really, I'm still on like, I'm, I'm like, in the middle of that sea's not going this way,
[22:59]this way, this way, this way, I have no idea.
[23:02]So I look to other women for inspiration and I find that I get inspired by
[23:09]women that are unapologetic about whatever choice they make, whether they choose not to age,
[23:17]be unapologetic about that.
[23:20]And I also admire the honesty that goes with it when they say, yeah, I've had tons of stuff done.
[23:25]This is what I've done so that you can know, and if you want to look like this,
[23:29]this is what you can do.
[23:30]Like, I really appreciate that sharing, because I do, I get a little discouraged when somebody,
[23:38]you know, is my age and looks 20 years younger, and they tell me that it's water and yoga,
[23:44]and I'm like, I know what's going on.
[23:50]Yeah, it feels like you're keeping, you're keeping it for yourself, which they have all the
[23:54]rights in the world to do to, by the way, to keep it private to keep it to themselves.
[23:59]It's just, as a woman, I appreciate the sister who's reaching out and sharing.
[24:04]So I want to be that sister. I want to be the one that shares.
[24:07]And then the other unapologetic one is, you know, is just taking the age on and going,
[24:12]this is who I am, this is what I look like, and screw you if you don't like it.
[24:16]And that's kind of, I think that that's what I'm striving for right now is,
[24:21]it's not so much the looks part as it is being unapologetic about who you are.
[24:27]Fully accepting yourself and putting it out there and going, this is me.
[24:32]Yeah. And if you don't like it, you don't have to look at me. It's okay.
[24:36]You don't have to listen to me. It's all right. A virtuous.
[24:41]You see, you know, it's easy. You just go like this.
[24:43]Yeah.
[24:45]I also really like to share openly about my feelings on Instagram.
[24:49]And I posted this weekend about how I just feel like my aging has become something
[24:56]very much that I cannot ignore and not just that, but you know,
[25:00]I have a more sedentary lifestyle now that I'm like running this business and doing all
[25:04]the stuff. And so I've like put on weight. And I feel like at this age, it's so much harder in
[25:08]the hormones. And then I mean, I said it in a nice way, you know, like, you know, I have to,
[25:12]I have to look, you know, check it out. But I was like blown away by the comments of how,
[25:21]how desperate women are for someone to talk just like people are for you. Like,
[25:27]people really need role models for getting older and people voicing it and not being like a
[25:33]shame to discuss it. And it's it's happening to everyone. Like, we can ignore it. But like,
[25:38]they're all these forces at work. And if we can't talk about it and share that like,
[25:43]it's a challenge, you know, it's something no matter what we have to decide what course we're
[25:48]on, like what you were saying, either or on the seaside. It's like, well, I either have to rush back
[25:52]and get my highlights done or not. Or like, you know, like, I find myself all the time being like,
[25:57]okay, so you chose to go great. Talk to me about that. You know, like, people I barely know. So
[26:02]anyway, I'll say I feel like obviously you've seen from all of your beautiful posting and your book
[26:09]and everything. And my like little dabble into it just the the the chord, the very like raw nerve
[26:16]that this hits with women of a certain age. Well, because it's kind of a miserable place to
[26:22]be, right? Because there is like a weird expectation that you cease to exist at a certain age,
[26:29]like what women over over their fertility bearing years do seems to be of no significance to
[26:36]anybody. And that's like the strangest thing. And yet it's actually the most amazing fruitful time
[26:44]of a woman's life. I mean, you have not as many responsibilities. You are so you have all this
[26:50]wisdom and power and intellect. And it's like watch out world. And like, if you are looking the wrong
[26:57]way, it's all unquestionably. And I agree. But, you know, maybe it's maybe in part it is that we do
[27:09]just we get more and more powerful. Yeah, it's like we are no longer the minder of the family
[27:15]and the moms. And we no longer define ourselves through providing and nurturing somebody else.
[27:22]It's like finally you get you back and you have learned all of this stuff at the very least,
[27:27]you have some pretty damn good organizational skills. Yes. Right? And I think maybe it's easier
[27:36]for the world to to dismiss us so that we don't become too powerful. You know, and we and we
[27:43]and we are dismissed on the basis of our looks. I'm like, and not on the basis of our knowledge
[27:48]or power or, you know, everything else that we are. It's our looks that will have us
[27:54]pushed away. It's our looks that make us invisible. And I it almost starting to seem like like
[28:01]it's designed like it's intentional because there is nothing as strong as a confident seasoned
[28:10]case and fight. Look at you. I'm still working on it. Oh my gosh. Well, Paulina, this has been so much
[28:18]fun. I wish I could talk to you all day and like go shout from all paper together and like
[28:23]you can read my poem so we can hang out and talk about it. Well, limit, where do you live?
[28:28]I'm on the up for you side. So I'm not sure. You're in New York. Actually in the car, it's in the
[28:35]actually hook up and I can actually read your head. I would love that. I would love it. Really.
[28:42]You know what? I'm totally in the market. Like I was going to say for new friends, but no, I just
[28:47]have all the freedom in the world now to meet new people and form new contacts and friendships.
[28:53]And it's like the greatest thing about life. Yeah. So I agree. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.
[28:59]I mean, girl who reads a lady who reads. I wrote a memoir too, by the way.
[29:08]I can talk about we could talk about that. I'm going to read it and then we can talk about it.
[29:13]Okay. Fantastic. I'm going to purchase. Thank you so much. What a pleasure so much. I really,
[29:19]I mean, honestly, you never know what you get when you open a book. And this was just such a gift
[29:24]really was and it hit me just the right time. And that's the greatest thing about books when they
[29:28]you really find your people. You have no idea how it's like, I'm going to flow down
[29:33]clouds for the rest of the day. Oh, good. All right. Thank you. Don't. Okay. Bye.
[29:42]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[29:46]follow me on Instagram at zibioans and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign
[29:51]up for my newsletter at zibioans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of
[29:56]authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[30:00]Extra sound for the sound editing.
[30:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:03]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.