Hugh Bonneville, PLAYING UNDER THE PIANO: From Downton to Darkest Peru
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[0:54]Hugh Bonneville is the author of playing under the piano from Downton to darkest Peru
[1:04]Hugh Bonneville's film credits include nodding hill iris the monuments men as well as the pattington movies and
[1:11]Downton Abbey movies I came by a contemporary thriller by director
[1:15]Babak on Vary is currently on Netflix
[1:18]He was television roles include Ian Fletcher in the BAFTA winning
[1:22]2012 and W1A of the BBC and Robert Crawley in ITV's global hit
[1:30]Downton Abbey for which he received nominations for a Golden Globe two Emmys and along with his fellow cast members won three
[1:37]SAG awards for outstanding ensemble in a drama series
[1:41]He recently completed filming the gold a six-part drama about the 1983 Brink Smatt bullion robbery for BBC one eye player and Paramount Plus
[1:50]Hugh's stage career spans more than three decades and includes seasons with the National Theatre and the Royal Shakespeare Company
[1:57]Because most recent appearances were an enemy of the people in Shadowlands both at Schittchester festival theater
[2:03]He was a patron of the National Youth Theatre of Great Britain the National Youth Arts Trust
[2:08]Seen and heard the primary Shakespeare Company in the South Dan's National Park Trust
[2:12]He lives in West Sussex with his wife Lou Lou Williams. They have a son Felix
[2:17]Welcome you. Thank you so much for coming on mom's turn-to-tide-tread vix to discuss playing under the piano from
[2:23]Downton like Downton Abbey obviously to darkest Peru. Welcome
[2:29]I thought you were gonna see Downton then because so many Americans too. I would never have said something like that
[2:34]Not me. I'm prepared
[2:38]Well, thank you very much for having me to your beautiful home. Thank you
[2:41]You'll I love the fact that you're all the books in the library of color court
[2:44]Needle rather than you know, they're laid out in the according to color. Where did that idea come from?
[2:48]What does it tell me about your child's isn't your psyche should we go there?
[2:53]I have one I have a cousin who does exactly the same. He's adorable. I hate him to add
[2:57]Okay, but I'm intrigued and he's never quite had the answers
[2:59]I think he says I just like the look of the light blue next to the yellow next to the dark blue
[3:03]Do you have a method? I mean, is there a method behind your madness?
[3:07]Not really, but you're turning this whole thing around, but no, I don't know
[3:11]I took them all down during COVID and I rearranged it for them all on the floor everything in the whole room and
[3:17]Thought I would I don't know. I just thought I'll just find my color
[3:19]I don't even know how I thought of it. So I started with a shelf of white
[3:23]And and I put that all the way down at the bottom and then I just kind of moved from there
[3:27]And then I realized how many books are white and red and black. Yeah, absolutely
[3:30]And there's also a lot of blues. Yeah, it's essentially reminded me of something in my childhood where I had like there
[3:37]Do you have top trumps here? There's little game cards which are like they're like playing cards, but they're for the theme like baseball cards
[3:42]I guess that's what I'm getting in or you know somebody's power in in this area is 10 and then you hate to be you know
[3:48]Or there and their skills are five or six or so anyway and and I used to arrange these cards sometimes according to the color of them
[3:55]Sometimes to the to the you know level of skill that this card was at or which team they were in and it got very confusing because I
[4:02]Want to see I did recategorize I had dreams of being a librarian for a while. Oh, but that's in evaporated. Yeah, are we digressing? We haven't even started
[4:10]Okay, okay
[4:12]Okay, what let's start with the author name because this actually isn't your real name
[4:17]So go into that. Oh, okay, so my my full name on my on my birth certificate was Hugh Richard Bonnie well Williams
[4:24]My father
[4:25]Always used to say that the Bonnie well was originally Bonneville and a come over to England from France
[4:31]In the Huguenot persecution and they were not going to being an actor there had been a Hugh Williams and
[4:37]In equity, which is the British Union. You can't have two people the same name. So I've met an actor
[4:43]Sorry, I met my first director my first audition really
[4:46]Well, I said oh, I remember Hugh Williams and he went banging on about Hugh Williams for ages this this former actor
[4:52]And I thought I'm ever gonna get a word in edge way
[4:53]So I thought I know what I'll use my middle names
[4:55]So for ages I was Richard Bonneville
[4:58]because I'd adopted the French because it sounded nicer than Bonnie well and
[5:02]And then eventually I remember being in a party once about after I've been an actor for about 10 years
[5:07]And my host didn't who'd known me as Hugh all my life didn't introduce me to anyone because he didn't know whether
[5:12]Can we Hugh or Richard? And I thought how does reds Dwight cope? No, who's reds Dwight? Do you know who reds Dwight is?
[5:17]Elton John or Gordon Somner who's Gordon Somner
[5:21]Sting, so I thought how do they continue with people who've either known them in their professional lives are in their
[5:26]In their formal life, so I I thought stuff it. I'll go back to Hugh. So Hugh Bonneville. It's a very long-winded answer
[5:32]It's the way Hugh Bonneville is my name
[5:34]Or that you felt very comfortable just comparing yourself to Elton John and Sting, you know
[5:38]The three of you are like these noble stars, you know, three musketeers you three
[5:44]Okay, so we've got your name
[5:46]Why write the book?
[5:47]Well, the really simple reason is because the publisher knocked me about six years ago to get off to do something
[5:52]He contacted me out of the blue and agent actually literary agents in London and he said I think you should write a comic novel
[5:58]And I said oh god, that's far too grown up and you know, I've got a day job ever and say he can
[6:02]He said well, how about an autobiography and I said I really ought to biography sand smacks of accuracy and
[6:09]And crooked a chronology and indeed pumposity if you're not careful
[6:13]So he said well, at least a memoir somewhere where you can string stories together and so that's what I said out to do
[6:19]And I just didn't do it. I wrote a chapter with great ceremony in about
[6:25]2017 and I sent a pic on my son to take a picture of me, you know, starting writing and I've
[6:30]scented off to him. I started Rory finally
[6:33]So I don't want a book publishing deal. I just want to I want it to pour out of me
[6:37]Yeah, but nothing poured
[6:39]It didn't even trickle and when it did I sort of put a you know finger in the dog
[6:43]So to speak and sort of pushed it back and then my son went traveling
[6:47]He's now he's now 21. So he was just turning 20 and he went traveling in the summer after the pandemic was you know
[6:54]You could actually go around Europe a bit
[6:56]And he texted saying this I'm leaving Sam my traveling companion for just for a week
[7:02]I've I've hired a little Airbnb heart up in the hills
[7:05]And thought she's in she wants you up to and sure enough
[7:08]He sent me a screenshot of his word count on his first day said
[7:12]She's written 4,000 words of my novel dad. How many words have you written today?
[7:15]And I felt so ashamed
[7:18]So I'm next day I picked up the eight of the phone to the agent. I said I need a publishing deal
[7:21]I need a deadline. I need to you know, I need someone cracking the whip
[7:25]And so I sat down this time last year
[7:27]So I'm talking about sort of October November last year and got on with it and this is my next day
[7:32]I'm so naive in this world of books. They said we won 100,000 words. So I wrote 160,000
[7:37]I thought they'd be pleased. No, they were
[7:39]They're a bit cheesed off
[7:41]That now we had to do a lot of editing
[7:43]And I said what's wrong then?
[7:45]And the publisher said well look you know, I'm enjoying it hugely
[7:48]But I'm on page 100 and you're still only eight
[7:51]We need to just really pick and choose our stories here
[7:53]So then the processing as you know murdering your darlings and
[7:58]Me wanting to write about
[7:59]I don't know my passion for the arts and education and him saying that's boring
[8:03]Tell us more about Maggie Smith or whatever it might be
[8:05]So I had to find a balance in the end
[8:07]But I the overall well two things
[8:10]I enjoyed the process and
[8:12]Be isn't the unconscious and extraordinary thing because I had no intention when I set out
[8:19]To write about my parents on the way that I do and my father had passed away just before the
[8:25]Pandemic but he had to mention he was 94 and he had to be really good innings and all those things
[8:30]But of course he's still losing a loved one
[8:32]And I found that I couldn't stop myself writing about him and mum and their influence on me and my sister and my brother
[8:41]And the way that they when I was growing up I'd put a gentle
[8:46]Sort of cape around us in terms of the arts the the in the background of the background noise of my youth
[8:52]Was culture with a small sea
[8:55]It was going to our galleries and you know English country is the houses and we bought the flip out of me at the time
[9:02]And you see him's in theater theater little blue touch paper and you know caught my imagination and opera and stuff
[9:08]I didn't you know most of it. I didn't get into but it was there it was there in the background of my life and only when I got into my teenage years
[9:17]And started to meet boys and girls from completely different cultures than mine or backgrounds to mine across the UK through
[9:25]An organization called the nursing youth theater which brought kids from all over the country together did I realize
[9:30]How fortunate I'd been how lucky I'd been to have that as I say low level hum of culture and taking it for granted
[9:37]And these in so many of my mates that I forged over those years didn't have that and that's been a real
[9:44]I've carried that into my adult life, you know hugely and I'm passionate about the arts and the young and the way that
[9:50]It unlocks our imagination itself expression and just looking at all these books here, you know, that's because people have been
[9:55]Allowed to let their imaginations free. It's a very long answer
[10:00]Very short question.
[10:01]That's okay.
[10:02]I love it.
[10:03]Actually, when I read that part of your book, I was sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, I'm
[10:06]such a bad mom.
[10:07]I should really, because my parents did the same thing that your parents did, I didn't
[10:10]really think much of it, but they were always taking us to play as museums and other stuff.
[10:15]I don't do that that much with my kids, but I guess they'll just be okay eventually.
[10:18]That'd be marvelous.
[10:19]You have to say that.
[10:21]You haven't met them yet.
[10:22]Now I'm kidding.
[10:23]Let's come back to your parents for a second because you start off by saying there's not
[10:26]much to say here, the only time they fought was in the car and I thought they were getting
[10:29]involved.
[10:30]It was a very funny scene as all of your scenes are, but generally they had a very happy
[10:34]marriage and you all went along in this nice life and then you didn't find out until
[10:38]after your mother passed away that she had this whole James Bond secret career going
[10:42]on and the most poignant moment there was at the funeral and I'm so sorry about your
[10:47]losses that you heard that they said because she had a young boy, she only worked three
[10:51]days a week and all of a sudden you were like, oh my gosh, I was the young boy and here
[10:54]I am at age 50 when you were sitting there thinking, I can't believe.
[10:59]What she did for me?
[11:00]Yeah.
[11:01]I mean to be fair, I did know that she'd worked in the secret service in my six as it's
[11:07]called in the UK but I certainly didn't know anything about the work and I did my father.
[11:11]She took the understandably took the secrets to her grave and then he laterly did I find
[11:16]out a tiny bit and she'd always said I just did some filing deer.
[11:19]Well she did but it was obviously one of her other sensitive material and had international
[11:23]implications etc.
[11:25]And when she had told me age one of her I suppose I was about 9 or 10 that she was going
[11:29]to take up this job three days a week in London, I was furious, you know, how selfish
[11:34]could she be?
[11:35]Leaving me.
[11:36]What was I going to do after school?
[11:37]If I was not on to play with or giving me my sandwiches and my orange squash.
[11:42]And as I say when it came to the eulogy of funeral my uncle had been in touch with someone
[11:47]in the service who basically sort of said yes you can all have to say that she served
[11:51]here etc.
[11:54]A number of times we tried to get her to do more than three days a week but she said
[11:56]no I've got a young son at home that I need to look after so that's when I felt a
[12:00]big lump in my throat and I thought you selfish little and you know all you could think
[12:04]about of course as we all know the world revolves around no one but yourself when you were
[12:09]8, 9, 10 and I look back now and I look back then while they're looking you know as
[12:14]her wicker coffin was there in the name of the church and I thought well you know you did
[12:20]everything for me and my brother and sister so he was a very special lady as was my father.
[12:26]When you write about them beautifully I think that's one of the greatest things that
[12:29]my work can do is you can bring back people that you love and let them get to know people
[12:33]who never would have met them we all get like little snippets.
[12:37]It's true isn't it and again talking about the when I went I went into MI6 actually
[12:43]to give a lunchtime talk once and this guy came up to me a little bit younger than me
[12:46]and said I worked with your mum and so that blew me away to actually have met someone
[12:50]that was after her passing obviously who had actually known my mother in a completely different
[12:55]world to the one I knew her from and he said yeah whenever we were sitting you know doing the
[13:00]crossword in our little cubby hole whatever we suddenly hear these footsteps on the
[13:04]lightly on the linoleum coming down the hallway and we'd quick this pack quick jumped to it
[13:09]and it wasn't the sort of fact that she was an authority figure to them it was the comment about
[13:14]footsteps and I remembered the sound of her footsteps and that really struck me it's amazing
[13:20]how sense memory can affect you in different ways and come at you in different ways be it a
[13:25]smell or a sound or I mean that like when we put on a record from 30 years ago 20 years ago
[13:30]and you think oh they didn't transport you and so in that moment I was transported I could
[13:34]remember when my mum was in sort of efficient mode she went into double time footsteps you know
[13:39]and I was there with him I could see her on that corridor it was very strange and
[13:45]rather beautiful well you did a nice job of weaving in your family story with the trials
[13:51]tribulations of becoming an actor and how you said that now people think like this is the
[13:57]stint come that you're starring in Downton Abbey did not come from 25 years or whatever of your
[14:03]of your career and all the other amazing roles and you put all these little behind the scenes
[14:08]moments and the funniest one I thought was with Martin Scorsese and that dude can you tell
[14:14]that story that was so funny and it's just one of your many self-deprecating moments so anyway
[14:19]well I was when not the film nothing hill was coming out in New York and I was standing on the
[14:24]sidewalk with Tim McNerney who pays one of the characters of the gang of friends in the movie
[14:30]and the film starts Hugh Grant and Julia Roberts for those you don't know and anyway Julia Roberts
[14:34]his agent was very kindly hosting a swearing for us her apartment in an off-central park and so
[14:40]a few of us were gathered on the sidewalk and Tim McNerney and his girlfriend got into the first cab
[14:45]and at that moment there was an older guy and a young guy coming towards us along the sidewalk
[14:51]and I could see Tim gesturing me out of the back of the cab as they pulled off sort of pointing
[14:56]at me in a way and I thought my button undone was he doing why is he pointing and then
[15:02]then I was standing with the director Roger Michelle and it turned out that the guy the older
[15:07]guy coming along was I think either his agent or anything each other and so yeah one of the
[15:11]challenges here you are and and this is and he introduced the young guy at which point the you know
[15:16]the evening traffic was just cacophanes and there was a car horn I didn't catch his name and
[15:20]that shook hands anyway they'd obviously just come from this meeting with Martin Scorsese because
[15:25]the young guy this young whippersnapper pulled out a Polaroid and said hey look here's a
[15:29]a picture of me and Marty and I looked at it and there was this guy and Martin Scorsese in a
[15:35]some room somewhere and he said yeah we're having a monobrow contest or something and I thought
[15:40]you cheeky and lad that's Martin Scorsese that is the greatest you know one of the greatest
[15:44]living directors we haven't got and you cheeky chap and we all set our pleasantries and we got
[15:49]it we got into our cab and off they went and we were driving up and the young people of the day
[15:54]they have no idea Roger and Roger said do you have any idea who that was it yeah it's just some
[15:58]cheeky young chapping that's showing off that he'd been to an audition with Martin Scorsese
[16:01]cute and he's in Roger said well I think Martin Scorsese can put up being teased by Leonardo DiCaprio
[16:07]and oh okay and by the time we arrived at the party Julie opened the door of her agents
[16:14]apartment and said this is life imitating art here we've heard and because Tim McEnany had said
[16:20]Leo DiCaprio is about to meet you and he has no idea who this guy is and they caused my character
[16:24]nodding ill has no idea who Julia Roberts is so it was yeah one example of life imitating art
[16:31]so funny you also tell the story of the many trips it took to be rejected from four weddings in
[16:37]a funeral oh yeah well yes that was that was a long tortureist journey this was um obviously
[16:43]several years before nodding hill and there was this low-budget movie that everyone under the
[16:47]sun of my peer group was auditioning for this lead role which was a gorgeous role obviously
[16:52]and then I was all you know asked audition for increasingly small parks
[16:56]and eventually for a cameo and I didn't get it because it was a low-budget film that was
[17:01]not going to make his money back and the director needed actors who knew how to hit their
[17:05]marks on a film set and I'd never done a film and so he said I'm you know I'm really sorry it's
[17:08]not gonna talk anyway yeah the film went on to do quite well let's face it they're lost
[17:13]they're lost exactly no worked out okay in the end yeah so what do you want to happen now with
[17:19]your life like you've done all of this stuff you've been working your whole career you had a very
[17:25]this blockbuster films and show without Navi or renowned and all of the stuff that you have a book
[17:32]like where do you see the meaning in your life coming now like what's oh that's a good question
[17:37]the meaning in my life you know some people of my age you know I'm 59 I kneads at 50 hours
[17:44]59 just a week ago so I'm already getting used to it yeah thank you it's the same 59 not 60 50
[17:51]9 it's good I know a lot of people in my age have been getting to I guess if they're fortunate enough
[17:57]to start thinking about maybe winding down and you know maybe taking a different path but
[18:02]it would be the idea the notion of sort of retiring or changing pace or changing direction
[18:09]it's like asking a painter to stop painting or I can't imagine it or a writer to stop writing
[18:14]I guess I can't really imagine it and they're good thinking about acting you can go on playing
[18:20]older and older parts and not saying I necessarily want to die on stage or on a film set but
[18:26]but I have no concept of retirement and I never have in the same way that I've never had any
[18:32]concept of job security it's always just a you know it's a merch from one thing to the next
[18:37]and I just want to keep learning really I love that you know you're one of the few men in their
[18:43]books who I've read talk about a miscarriage that happened to them at some point along the way
[18:48]and I thought it was really interesting that you included that I know I'm kind of jumping
[18:51]all over with your life chronology here but I was wondering what made you put that in
[18:56]if you think about it often if it was meant to inspire because you obviously you and your wife
[19:01]were thinking so hard about it after that it wasn't until you relax that you could have your son
[19:06]yeah and just I don't know I thought that was really interesting two pages it's a very short
[19:10]little chat there and and it's because it was you know it's like joining a club when you discover
[19:17]so many how many people go through something like that and for some it's like a little you know
[19:22]dropping the ocean it's oh well we had a miscarriage we move on and for some it's the
[19:26]biggest heartbreak and it's a repeated heartbreak and it's a source of great trauma and pain
[19:31]and I don't know I just wanted to I suppose just really amplify how valuable Felix became our
[19:38]because he was long-looked for and there were times and I'm sure many people have experienced this
[19:42]where you're bashing it against a brick wall and you think this is never going to happen and okay
[19:47]there are other routes one can go down and it's when we've done all this you know all the
[19:51]all the temperature charts know this and then that and and eventually the the doctors just sort of
[19:56]took a look at one of those charts and just tore it up we went what are you doing what are you
[19:59]doing don't you
[20:00]said to just don't put this pressure on yourselves. Just, just, and we went on vacation and
[20:04]bedding, there we were. So we were incredibly blessed and fortunate and the name Felix means
[20:10]fortunate. So I think, you know, I just, I just wanted to etch that little anecdote in. It wasn't,
[20:15]you know, don't get me wrong. We didn't go through years and years of all sorts of therapies,
[20:19]be it, either medicinal, emotional. It was just a sadness and it came good and we were very,
[20:26]that's great. I did notice sort of in your whole life. It's been, you've had like a really
[20:32]wonderful life. Like it's been wonderful to watch your parents. You know, there was not too much
[20:37]conflict. You kept at it. You persevered. You eventually like attained like the height of everything
[20:44]you'd ever wanted. You got your son and you're married and you know, it's like, it's pretty good.
[20:52]I mean, you know, as I say, it's a memoir and I pick out the best bits. But I had to do that.
[20:59]No, it's, I have had a blessed life and, you know, I'm a firm believer that we're only here once
[21:03]and I'm very fortunate when I look at, you know, I have friends who suffer greatly with depression,
[21:08]with with lack of direction, with with a huge amount of pain in their lives. And
[21:14]ever since I was a kid, I've been encouraged to embrace every day and count my blessings and I do
[21:21]of course have blue days and days of inertia, et cetera. But, you know, I've always,
[21:26]my parents grew up in the early days of what we call in Britain, the National Health Service,
[21:31]when the whole medical system was transformed and made available to all, what have you know,
[21:37]despite any ability to pay. And it became an ethos in Britain that was, it's been clung on to
[21:44]just about these days. And so their sense of public duty and public service was paramount,
[21:50]mum and dad and they met at medical school, mum was a nurse and dad was training to be a doctor.
[21:54]And so their sense of being, knowing how fortunate they were and that we have fortunate we three
[22:01]children were, is something that was not drummed into us in a sort of, don't you realise how
[22:06]fortunate you are? It was just there and their sense of wanting to give back because the system
[22:10]had trained them and they wanted to give back to the community or to the society that had trained
[22:15]them. And I feel very fortunate to have been, to have managed to keep working for this long,
[22:21]you know, in the way that I have and, and lurching from, from job to job. So I have had a
[22:27]blessed life and, I'm never, I never take it for granted. I never, I hope, smog about it. I,
[22:32]you know, I work really bloody hard into, and of course there are, you know, there are pitfalls
[22:37]along the way and trying to allude to some of those. But I'm luckily, I'm wired to be optimistic
[22:43]and wired to be positive. And again, I feel fortunate to be, so.
[22:48]Wonderful. All right, my last question, you said you just kind of whipped out 160 words in what,
[22:54]a couple more? 160,000. I'm sorry, did I say 160 words? My brain is obviously not working
[22:59]completely today, 160,000 words. I saw the numbers in my head, but that's fine.
[23:04]In only a few months, if you were working on this just a year ago, what is your advice to
[23:08]aspiring authors? Well, do you know, I asked that very question to a couple of authors,
[23:12]you know, friends of mine in the UK. And I said, how do you do it? And actually, I played
[23:16]rule Darl in a film of a few years back. And so, obviously, read up a lot about him. And he
[23:21]wrote two hours in the morning and had a bit of an entrepreneur, two hours in the afternoon. And I
[23:25]thought, well, as I lightweight, you know, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to write eight or 10
[23:29]hours a day. And of course, the longer you write, actually, the best productive guy I found it was.
[23:34]And actually, there is something about, there's something valuable in those short bursts of energy
[23:38]when you're brain and you're fluidity of thought is at its, you know, most accessible, I suppose.
[23:45]And I think, and as every writer I asked, they said, you just got to sit down with a
[23:49]blank page and do it. And which sounds, you know, easier than, easier said than done.
[23:54]But once I got into the rhythm of it, and some days I, you know, I would write, right,
[23:59]five and seven or eight hours. And on the whole, I'd find that the last couple of hours probably
[24:04]weren't. That's great. All right, right, two hours and think, I can't write any more today.
[24:07]Well, there's nothing coming or I'm just bashing my head against a brick wall or,
[24:11]and then like with a sort of, what, you know, legato piece of music that suddenly
[24:16]saw as you think, I can't stop. My fingers are going and I can't stop whether it's good or not.
[24:20]You've got to let it finish. You've got to let it come out. So I think, you know, I'm not a writer
[24:24]by trading. I've enjoyed writing this, having this experience of writing this memoir.
[24:29]And maybe I'll write some more in the future. But I think a sense of discipline about it,
[24:33]and actually, yeah, setting yourself a target. I mean, you know, the fact that it took me
[24:37]years to get, to get around to it. And then when I did, I really enjoyed sitting down and having
[24:42]a structure and doing it. But I think my next time around, don't overwrite.
[24:47]Thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
[24:51]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[24:56]forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:01]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zebioans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[25:06]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for
[25:11]the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[25:16]now trim music.