Cin Fabré, WOLF HUSTLE: A Black Woman on Wall Street
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[0:58]Sin Fabri is the author of Woolfussle, a black woman on Wall Street
[1:02]Sin is a New Yorker born and raised in the South Bronx and Queens at the age of 19
[1:07]She joined a broker-chass on Wall Street eventually becoming a high earning broker at a top firm
[1:12]Before leaving in search of a more meaningful life today
[1:15]She divides her time between New York City and Europe and enjoys spending time with her wife and four children
[1:20]Woolfussle is her first book
[1:23]Welcome, Sin. Thank you so much for coming on moms
[1:25]Don't have time to read books to discuss your memoir. Woolfussle a black woman on Wall Street
[1:31]Thank you. I'm really happy to actually have a conversation
[1:35]It's so sweet to like kind of be on a call with someone that kind of gets books and understands the writing the process
[1:41]So I don't think I could ever get tired of this actually. So I'm glad to always have this conversation. Oh, well, I'll just settle in then. That's great
[1:49]I also never get tired of hearing about how authors end up writing in their process and their lives and
[1:55]I don't know a memoir is such a such an act of generosity
[1:59]I feel like when you share your stories. So so why don't you tell listeners a little about
[2:04]How why did you decide to share your story? Let's just start there and then we'll go into your actual story. Why did you take?
[2:10]Why did yeah, why write it why share it?
[2:13]You know there's so many different reasons why I wrote that story
[2:17]I think one of the main reasons is as I think when I saw my 19-year-old she's 19 now
[2:21]But I saw her as a teenager's just starting to struggle
[2:24]because they have the presence of social media something I didn't have when I was a teenager and how their
[2:29]That was affecting their lives and I have four kids
[2:34]Okay, right, so you understand
[2:37]And just seeing like when I was I remember just having more conversations with my friends like being out with them
[2:42]It wasn't all about chatting and texting and granted because we didn't have those type of devices then that's probably why
[2:48]I mean, that's the obvious reason
[2:50]But I love the face-to-face conversation even to this day
[2:53]And so what I wanted to show my kids was like, this is what I used to do
[2:57]And I know that telling that to them goes nowhere like they don't get it like and I get it
[3:01]And I get that they don't get it. You know what I mean? I can't say yeah, I used to pay a dollar for this
[3:05]Well, okay, mom great. That was 25 years ago. No one cares about
[3:08]So I'm like if I write it because I know when I read something and if it's more visual
[3:14]Use you incorporated differently and you absorb it differently
[3:17]And this was a great way instead of having sporadic conversations about saying hey
[3:22]This is what I did as a kid. This is how I persevered
[3:25]Not saying our lives are the same
[3:27]But I want to just show you a different perspective of what you can do
[3:31]And so that was one of the main reasons the other one was I was always seeing the same narrative of Wall Street
[3:36]It was always white men on Wall Street
[3:38]And I get that's what Wall Street 25 years hasn't changed since I've been in the business
[3:43]But there is other people in the business that represent Wall Street
[3:46]And you know, I feel like even growing up, women never wanted to really necessarily talk about finance
[3:51]It was like, you know, that's not something we talk about
[3:54]We can't tell you how much we pay for our house
[3:55]We can't tell you how we're investing
[3:57]And I'm like we should talk about it. Let's talk about the 90s. Let's talk about Wall Street
[4:02]I was there. I lived it for me
[4:05]I want people to feel like it's a welcome space
[4:06]They don't necessarily feel like they don't belong
[4:09]And there are other stories besides the same one that we keep saying we saw Wolf of Wall Street
[4:13]We saw a boiler room, you know, we saw Wall Street
[4:16]It's being replayed on loop
[4:19]But this is my take and this is what happened for me
[4:21]So I was like, I'll just write about it. That's the best way to get people to understand it
[4:25]I'm so glad you did
[4:26]And I love that in the book you spend almost the first half really immersing us in your family history
[4:32]Your childhood, how you got there
[4:35]And so by the time you get to Wall Street, we're like totally in it with you
[4:39]Like I feel like I am like walking in
[4:42]And I'm like going out of that what you up top interests shop is at the right
[4:47]I'm like okay
[4:48]And that is such like a badass thing that you did by the way that is so cool
[4:52]So why don't you just tell how you are working at what age you are and when you are working
[4:56]And how you decided to like go into this business because it's so untraditional
[5:01]It's not through the uh, you know, it's just so bold and awesome and amazing
[5:05]So just tell that story. I love that
[5:08]Yeah, you know, so my first intro to Wall Street
[5:10]Um, without telling too many people that haven't read it was in high school
[5:13]I had never heard about, you know, what a stock market was
[5:16]And I was like wow what is that?
[5:18]And that's obviously just lack of resources and having that information
[5:21]And you know, as I was working as a high school kid in eyeglasses
[5:25]I've raised really quickly to like one of the best salespeople where I was
[5:29]actually being recruited to different stores
[5:31]And you know by the time I'm 19, I'm making 50, 60,000
[5:35]Which you know 25 years ago wasn't chunk change. It was good amount of money to make as a kid
[5:40]And I think for a lot of people
[5:43]They're like that. This is great. This is good money. You're doing really good
[5:46]But I always knew there was more
[5:48]You know what I mean?
[5:49]I knew that I there was no limit on what I could do
[5:51]So when this woman walked in and she told me she was a stockbroker one day
[5:56]As I was selling her glasses
[5:57]That to me was like wow if she could be a stockbroker
[6:01]I could be a stockbroker
[6:03]Like that was literally my moment. I was like oh my god
[6:05]I could be a broker too. Anyone can do it. You know, and that's literally what I was thinking
[6:09]It was like anyone could do it. So
[6:12]As you're describing her is like so disheveled and all of this stuff and you're like her okay, yeah
[6:17]I'm like wait a minute like and you know
[6:21]I actually love that she was that person right?
[6:24]Because she didn't give me that I think when we think about what we were intimidated by just everything
[6:29]We know about it the money the flashiness like the suits the watches and that
[6:34]Can we keep a demographic of people out of the market?
[6:37]You know what I mean? They're like oh, I can't do that. I'm not that person
[6:40]But when I saw her I was like I definitely got this girl's number. I could do this and so
[6:45]Just a couple of weeks later. I got as it was just like all came down
[6:49]I got in and it
[6:50]It's kind of like a foray into it by guy that I knew that was like hey sim
[6:54]I think you'd be great for the birth and I was like okay
[6:57]I can do this and literally that's how I go and I know that I'm kind of like summarizing it real quick
[7:04]But I think what's important for me is some people to understand
[7:07]I never had any doubt that I could be a sock broker
[7:09]I never once thought I couldn't do it. There was nothing that made me feel like this wasn't my house
[7:15]You know what I mean this thing and I never felt like a guest. I felt like we're all building this house together
[7:21]You know, so I want to stay in this house and what do I need to do to make sure I stay
[7:26]It's kind of like a big brother. You want to stay in that house. You don't want to go. You know what I mean?
[7:31]So I just had to figure it out and I figured it out and
[7:34]You know, I think one of the most defining moments was me standing up to my boss at the time and just saying
[7:41]I need to just do something different and I think that is kind of how I was able to propel forward to
[7:47]Being able to become a stockbroker and then laying in the biggest kind of the firm
[7:51]so
[7:52]It was really fun. It was a great time
[7:55]My gosh
[7:57]You had this one passage. Is it okay if I read this early on
[8:00]About your ambition
[8:01]He said my ambition has always devoured all of the oxygen in the room so that I can grow bigger
[8:06]Sparking to catch and expand hungrily beyond the neatly kept boundaries the polite society says that I shouldn't cross
[8:13]Fire keeps no borders and neither do I I'm not afraid to burn those who cross me
[8:17]It is how I've always lived my life whether it's scrambling to sell lunch tickets to make a few dollars in high school
[8:22]Or surpassing the expectation of the good old boys in the boardroom a fire is always in motion and I've never stopped moving forward
[8:30]So good. I love that you read that like it sounds so
[8:34]Like it just sounds like I think you know, it's funny because I know with you your own book right when you're writing
[8:39]You never get tired of reading it. You could read the same thing 20 30 40 50 times and
[8:45]What sometimes the way you interpret it?
[8:47]It's interpreted so many different ways by other people and they see things
[8:51]That maybe necessarily I didn't know when I was writing it, but the way they interpret it
[8:56]It's just so for me so inspiring because I'm going to say oh my god
[8:59]I read this and this made me think this way
[9:01]I felt this way and so even when you're reading it I still have these chills because
[9:06]I still feel the same way nothing's changed
[9:09]You know, I feel that energy I feel that fire
[9:11]I feel that desire and more importantly
[9:14]It's the passion right because passion for me will take you anywhere and everywhere you want to go in this world
[9:19]I truly believe that and
[9:21]It doesn't matter what it is and it could be that you want to be the best teacher
[9:25]It could be that you want to be the best nurse it could be that you want to be
[9:28]You know the best judge whatever it is if you're passionate about it
[9:32]You're going to find a way there and I think for me my story is to tell people
[9:35]I get that there's a lot of things going on
[9:37]I didn't have the same kind of I want to say because obviously COVID and you know
[9:42]Where so much more exposed to the world because we have social media we have the internet
[9:48]I was kind of shielded from that so I was able to kind of put my head down and just focus on what I wanted to do
[9:53]But I also only want to pick my head up which was really important because
[9:57]I was able to say I want to do something and nothing
[10:00]It's gonna stop me and I think it's just important
[10:02]in the times that we're going to right now
[10:03]that people feel that message.
[10:05]Don't forget about it.
[10:07]Yeah, I think being driven is amazing, right?
[10:10]People, you just have that drive.
[10:11]You have to keep going and it's great.
[10:14]Especially if you find the right lane
[10:15]to put your drive in, right?
[10:17]Like, you're car charging forward.
[10:19]Sometimes you just don't know
[10:20]if you're in the right lane or not,
[10:21]but clearly you found your lane for a while
[10:24]and that also, I mean, you write in the book
[10:27]about waking up with a cockroach
[10:29]like on your lip in your mouth.
[10:32]I mean, to go from that, to like dealing
[10:34]with all of these people and situations
[10:37]and then I mean, it come back,
[10:39]these horrific men you interacted with.
[10:41]I mean, the guy, especially, I mean,
[10:43]that I can't stop thinking about
[10:45]who like showed you all those pictures
[10:46]of his nether region as you like get into work.
[10:50]I mean, the idea that this was so commonplace
[10:52]and like, okay, for so long,
[10:54]when now you can't even like have a like
[10:57]a sanctioned relationship start in the workplace,
[10:59]did I mean like, this was all going on
[11:02]and it's just insane.
[11:04]And you were just, you just wouldn't take it.
[11:07]You were just like, I don't want, no.
[11:09]And they turned and skedaddled.
[11:11]It's like it was so cool.
[11:13]Yeah.
[11:14]Well, thank you for saying that.
[11:15]I think that so many people,
[11:16]when they think about, you know,
[11:18]standing up for yourself, sometimes you get,
[11:20]you know, believe it or not,
[11:21]you get punished for like being on the defense.
[11:23]You know, sometimes it's always about how you should
[11:25]turn the cheek and, you know, look the other way
[11:27]and be a bigger person.
[11:29]But we're forgetting that when you're in a situation
[11:32]where you're the minority and that could be,
[11:34]whether it's race, whether it's religion,
[11:36]whether it's gender or however you identify,
[11:40]you have to say something.
[11:41]You have to make your path.
[11:42]You have to stand up for yourself, right?
[11:45]And if not, then what we're saying, it's okay.
[11:48]And for me, I was like, oh, no way.
[11:50]There's nothing special about these guys.
[11:52]And literally, I still feel that way.
[11:54]Nothing special about them.
[11:56]There wasn't anything there,
[11:57]anyone there that can do what I thought I could do,
[11:59]just given the opportunity.
[12:01]It is about opportunity.
[12:02]And so when you even mentioned like having that,
[12:04]the roach in my mouth and growing up that way
[12:06]in the projects, right?
[12:07]I shared that because I want people to understand
[12:11]that I've had it, I got it.
[12:12]Like I've been there too.
[12:14]I've had a lot of things happen.
[12:15]And I don't write everything in the book,
[12:17]but I give you a little bit of the life that I let
[12:19]and why it was important for you to see where I came from
[12:22]and where I knew I could go, had I put my mind to it.
[12:25]And that's what was really important for me
[12:27]to kind of show in the book.
[12:29]Because even with all the obstacles,
[12:31]I still found a way to find some humor
[12:33]and it believed it or not.
[12:34]I had so kind of laugh.
[12:35]Like you laugh a little bit at your pain
[12:37]because that's what gets you going.
[12:38]I totally agree.
[12:39]There's sort of no other way through.
[12:41]Yeah.
[12:42]If you want to make it through,
[12:43]you have to laugh, otherwise.
[12:44]Yeah, you have to.
[12:45]You have to.
[12:46]Okay, one other paragraph that you wrote
[12:48]and then I'll stop reading.
[12:49]You said, Ms. Keetos are relentless.
[12:51]Swat one away and it will come back undeterred
[12:53]to bite you again and again, leaving angry red welts
[12:56]that you can't soon forget.
[12:57]It feeds off you, corging itself.
[12:59]And it will not stop until you are forced to kill it.
[13:02]Squashing its little insect body against your arm
[13:04]or thigh, smearing your own blood across your skin,
[13:07]a streaked reminder that it's still from you.
[13:09]The men at my firm and I'll hazard a guess everywhere else
[13:12]on Wall Street or mosquitoes.
[13:14]It's too bad I couldn't squash them
[13:15]with a simple sharp slap.
[13:18]Yeah, and you know what?
[13:20]Even in winter, they were there.
[13:22]So at least with the mosquitoes,
[13:23]you know, okay, at some point they're going away.
[13:26]This was all year round, you know?
[13:28]And if it were that simple, yeah,
[13:31]we'd all be in a better place.
[13:32]We wouldn't be worried about, you know,
[13:34]what mosquitoes carry and getting fit and scratching.
[13:36]And, you know, I think for me,
[13:38]like knowing that they were always gonna come,
[13:41]I think it's to be prepared mentally
[13:44]was why I needed to always be ready for them.
[13:46]And I think when you know that,
[13:49]that puts you in this frame of mind all the time,
[13:51]I gotta be on my game, I have to be sharp,
[13:54]I have to be the wittiest,
[13:56]I have to find a way to let them not get to me
[13:58]because they're gonna survive no matter what happens.
[14:01]I may not.
[14:02]And so knowing that they were always coming for me
[14:05]was always like, all right, I got you.
[14:06]I got my net ready, you know?
[14:08]So yeah, that's actually a really great paragraph
[14:11]and I hope a lot of people can take away from that
[14:12]because I know people are still going through that
[14:14]in the workplace now.
[14:16]And I think the 90s is something we really don't talk about.
[14:18]Like, honestly, Zibi, I don't know if you'll put the 90s
[14:21]was like one of the best decades ever.
[14:24]You know, everything happened in the 90s.
[14:26]We're talking about music, drugs, money, New York,
[14:30]3 9 11, like it was happening, it was popping.
[14:32]And I think that I'm trying to bring us back to that,
[14:36]innovate because we can still have a good time.
[14:38]We just have to find how we get there
[14:41]and how we learn to enjoy what we have.
[14:43]And so to me, that was really important
[14:45]to talk about the things that happened
[14:46]and the time that I was growing up
[14:48]because I take away all the things, really.
[14:51]It still shocks me that the 90s weren't like yesterday.
[14:54]I know that sounds ridiculous.
[14:56]I'm like, yeah, of course, the 90s are amazing.
[14:59]I feel like I'm a palladium.
[15:01]That's why I like, yes, I love to find them.
[15:03]Oh my gosh, I finished my lives and even says,
[15:06]the day I finished my last final in high school
[15:09]for Christmas break, like some other people
[15:11]had finals the next day, but the rest of us
[15:13]like went to limelight, that was so cool.
[15:16]Oh my gosh, why are we so cool?
[15:18]So yeah, that's fun still to me.
[15:20]That's still great, you know what I mean?
[15:22]And I pass it when I'm Chelsea,
[15:23]I'm like, oh my God, I'm like still, you know?
[15:26]Well, your book is kind of like the act,
[15:30]the bug spray that people need against the mosquitoes.
[15:32]Like if there's one thing, you know,
[15:34]they can like put this all over themselves.
[15:37]What about the lesson you've taken away
[15:40]in terms of dealing with wealth for the lifetime
[15:44]of, you know, you have an author's note at the end
[15:46]where you encourage people to take better care
[15:48]of sort of their financial lives and make some plans
[15:51]and not get sucked in or be unprepared.
[15:53]Like when you're making a lot of money,
[15:55]you can feel like it's gonna happen forever,
[15:57]but then one day it stops and what then
[15:59]and how do you plan for that?
[16:00]And, you know, I do also think that is something
[16:02]that is not talked about, especially with so many,
[16:04]like celebrities and athletes
[16:06]and then what happens next?
[16:08]Can you talk about that a little bit?
[16:10]Yeah, you know, the irony is I walked into the business
[16:13]not knowing anything about Wall Street,
[16:15]about finances, that wasn't something
[16:17]that I had access to.
[16:19]And so when I left Wall Street, I had more information
[16:23]but it wasn't anything that was given to me.
[16:25]I had to do the research.
[16:26]And I think even when you mentioned now,
[16:28]like athletes and celebrities and entertainers
[16:30]that are not necessarily talking about money,
[16:32]it's funny cause money is still some type of taboo
[16:34]to talk about, but we should talk about it
[16:36]because that's how we all do better
[16:38]if we have information and not having that information
[16:42]is really, really important on how we move forward.
[16:45]I think it's important for our kids to learn about
[16:48]how to work, you know, I might kids all have to work.
[16:50]Everyone knows that you get gifts
[16:52]a couple times a year, but anything else in between,
[16:54]you have to find a way how to make your own money, right?
[16:57]Because if I'm not here, who is gonna provide for you?
[17:00]So that's why I think that information is important.
[17:03]Also, there's generational wealth gap
[17:05]that we have right now, you know,
[17:07]that's directly linked to financial resources
[17:10]and financial literacy.
[17:11]So I think that it's something that we should all take
[17:14]very seriously.
[17:15]I think it will change the way how we move through life
[17:18]if we have that information.
[17:19]And I also think it's important about how we are able
[17:22]to change the dynamics for the people
[17:24]that are coming up behind us.
[17:26]So that was important for me to write that
[17:27]because I will never, never be able to escape
[17:31]that I walked into this business
[17:33]not knowing a thing about money.
[17:35]And so tell me about your life now.
[17:38]Can you do a fast forward like a preview or something
[17:41]without giving away the book?
[17:42]Like what's where are you putting the drive
[17:45]aside from writing this book?
[17:48]Where is it going?
[17:49]What are you up to?
[17:50]So, you know, one of the things I'm in negotiation
[17:55]even as of, you know, in the next day or so,
[17:57]depending on when this is being broadcast,
[17:59]I'm in negotiation for this as a film.
[18:02]So that's gonna hopefully, you know,
[18:05]I can't give obviously too much information,
[18:07]but that's where I'm at with this
[18:09]because I think a lot of people saw something
[18:11]that they've never seen, which was so amazing
[18:14]about the interest that I had in the book.
[18:16]And it's funny because I kind of wrote the book.
[18:17]I was like, this would be great for television
[18:19]or screen one day.
[18:20]And, you know, that was one of my goals.
[18:22]And to know that that's gonna happen is very exciting.
[18:25]But what's important to me also is the message
[18:27]that I relate throughout the book about how you come from,
[18:31]how you take that information, how you move with it.
[18:34]I'm also on my second book.
[18:35]So I'm kind of writing something totally different
[18:38]from Wall Street, but it just kind of gives you
[18:42]the themes of it is it's kind of a little bit
[18:44]how I was able to live my life and take that information
[18:46]and how I was able to move forward
[18:48]to kind of my next hustle.
[18:50]Because I got a lot of people emailing me about
[18:51]what was your next hustle?
[18:52]What'd you do after?
[18:53]Like, you kind of left yourself on a cliffhanger.
[18:55]Can you talk more about your brother?
[18:56]So that is actually in the works.
[18:59]And I've been kind of enjoying living in Europe
[19:01]with my family.
[19:01]You know, we lived in Portugal and it's been for a year.
[19:04]That was really different for the kids.
[19:06]And now I'm here in Paris.
[19:07]I think I'll be here for the future, but I'm in New York a lot
[19:10]and I'm going, you know, back and forth all the time.
[19:13]But to be honest with you,
[19:14]I'm all about just kind of chilling.
[19:16]Like in my book, you can tell like,
[19:18]as much as I'd love to be hardcore, I like to relax.
[19:21]I like my two hour lunches, you know what I mean?
[19:24]I love just walking into stores for an hour.
[19:27]I just like to just enjoy,
[19:29]and I really love to enjoy people's company.
[19:31]I love to laugh, you know?
[19:32]So, and as I look at you,
[19:34]you have like these big dimples that I'm like staring at.
[19:37]That's so big.
[19:38]I know.
[19:39]One smile and two extra smiles hanging out
[19:41]over there on the sun.
[19:43]So yeah, you know, I think this is a great time
[19:47]to just, you know, really be accepting of where you're at
[19:51]in life.
[19:51]And for me, that's what I'm doing.
[19:52]I'm just trying to enjoy life and just do it my way.
[19:56]I love that.
[19:57]That's amazing.
[19:57]It's like, work hard, play hard.
[19:59]It's not another 90.
[20:00]80s, it makes him. Yeah. Wait, why did you go to Portugal and then Paris? How did you pick this?
[20:07]I thought because I love Lisbon and I thought it would be a good place to reset,
[20:10]you know, especially coming out the COVID. I wanted to be able to never be stuck in one place
[20:15]again, you know, that was hard for everyone. I'm sure you get it. And if you have four kids,
[20:19]you know, it's hard to balance all of that and stay staying. So I was like, we need to all
[20:23]reset somewhere. And it was a great place to reset. But Paris to me is this something beautiful
[20:28]about it. It's just very, I love that you can just sit like on a corner and you could be by
[20:33]yourself and just people are smoking or drinking. You don't need to have 10 people around you.
[20:37]People enjoy themselves here, you know what I mean? So I think for me, Europe is just, you know, one of
[20:42]those things that I always said I would come to and live. And that's what I'm doing. These are my
[20:47]French elves here, bogey and creature. I got them eight years ago. And they're on this ride,
[20:54]you see his little little bag there, sort of French bag. But yeah, I just, I really encourage people,
[21:02]like if anything, COVID has taught us this really to try to just enjoy yourself and enjoy,
[21:06]you know, others and more importantly, just travel when you can't.
[21:10]Totally agree. My gosh. Well, now I want to just come to Paris and, you know,
[21:15]sit on the street. You have a friend here. You can come.
[21:18]Oh, I saw it. Yes, I will call you.
[21:20]Yeah. Tell me about reading. What do you like to read? Do you like to read? What do you like to read?
[21:25]When do you like to read? You know, I like, that's a good question. I pretty much like everything.
[21:30]I don't have one specific genre that I will say. I only read this. I think if it makes sense,
[21:36]I'm going to read it. Like, I'll even look at a couple for two days and like, oh, man, what are they
[21:39]putting this? That looks yummy. Like, you know what I mean? Obviously, I have to say I love non-fiction
[21:44]because I wrote one, you know, memoirs, but I also like thrillers. You know, I love the suspense
[21:50]of who's going to get caught, who isn't, you know, I love stuff like that. So yeah, I really love
[21:56]anything that just makes sense at the time to read. And I actually love historical fiction,
[22:00]or, you know, I like to go back in time. So when Bridgerton came out, I was like, I already
[22:05]knew these words. My wife was like, how did you know to say that? I'm like, oh, because I read
[22:08]that stuff all the time. She's like, oh, I didn't even know that. So believe it or not,
[22:13]I like old school stuff like that. So yeah, besides that, I love softball. I love a good cocktail,
[22:19]good craft cocktail. And I love taking long, meaningless walks, just nowhere. I'll just walk for
[22:25]hours and just kind of hang out. So that's that's syn and a box, really.
[22:30]That's in it. I feel like you could brand that, you know. Okay, what advice do you have for aspiring
[22:38]authors? You know, one of the things is what I first heard when I was when I wrote the, when I
[22:42]wrote my book, I remember someone was like, you know, you have like no followers. You have like
[22:46]no social media. And I'm like, and it's funny, because I told the person, you know, I'm still pretty
[22:50]much at the same. I mean, I'm a little bit better. But I have this thing where I really believe
[22:57]that even if someone is telling you you can't do something, it's not the norm. Be that anomaly,
[23:01]I'll be the different one. I'll try something someone said I couldn't do. You know what I mean?
[23:06]I love that like, you know, one of the things you posted was about women in publishing,
[23:09]like that's really important, right? Because there's not enough of that, right? And I'm sure
[23:14]people have said, Oh, that's tough. That's really hard to get into. You got to, someone has to do it.
[23:19]Someone has to be the first. You know what I mean? So someone has to go in and say, we,
[23:24]there's space for us. And if there isn't, make space. And so I think that's what I will always
[23:28]help people. Even if you're at the disadvantage, I always saw myself as the advantage. I've never
[23:34]ever looked at myself as someone that was, you know, at the disadvantage. So going in with that mindset
[23:40]has always helped me go forward and not to have self doubt. And granted, I know that it's easy,
[23:45]you know, sometimes people can mistake arrogance. They think, don't mistake my confidence
[23:50]for arrogance ever. I think what's important is for me, like, I had to have that. You know,
[23:56]those types of lives that we all live, everyone has to build something to protect themselves. So
[24:01]for me, it was like, I know that I can do whatever it is I want. And I think, yeah, that fake
[24:05]it to you make it. There's nothing wrong with that. I know some people are against that. I'm like,
[24:08]why not? What's wrong with that? You know what I mean? Like, do what you have to do to win. I mean,
[24:13]with the reason, obviously. But I don't have a problem with that. I've never had it because,
[24:19]you know, when I walked in, I thought I was a stock broker too. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm a stock
[24:23]broker. I just don't have a license. I'm going to get there. And so if you can think, you can do
[24:28]it. And so don't let anyone tell you otherwise, you know, and even when I was writing the book,
[24:31]every month, sometimes I could be my favorite written any. No, but today will be my first day.
[24:35]I'm going to try. And so here I am today, you know, having a conversation with you and hopefully,
[24:40]hopefully, excuse me, inspiring, you know, other people still go do the same and reach for it
[24:44]is whatever they want to do. That's so awesome. Like, it's me goosebumps. That was so, that's amazing.
[24:50]And I feel the same way. I'm like, I'll figure it out. Like, let me try it. Like, not everybody
[24:56]doesn't always go to everything with the whole guidebook already written. Right. We all have to
[24:59]figure it out. So we might as well do what we want to do. And I mean, even if it sounds hard,
[25:04]like, I'm not afraid of hard. Like, hard is just something. So yeah, I'm some patter go here.
[25:12]All right. Well, and thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you for
[25:16]your book and for sharing so openly about your feelings, your family, your career, your life.
[25:22]It was really moving to read. And I, you know, I won't soon forget it. It was really impactful.
[25:28]So I'm really glad you shared your story.
[25:31]Thank you for having me. And also, you know, I'm inspired by so many other authors that are
[25:36]writing and telling their stories as well. And I think that we have that group that we all get it,
[25:41]how hard it is to do things. And when we get to a certain place, I hope that we all share,
[25:46]you know, they may sharing information is so important. So hello to every other author out there,
[25:51]and I'm moving to you. So sweet. I love it. Thank you, Sam. I have a good one. Take care.
[26:00]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[26:04]follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign
[26:09]up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[26:14]on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:19]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and