Joanna Margaret, THE BEQUEST: A Dark Academia Thriller

2022-12-23 · 21:09 · Joanna Margaret · Podcast Audio

[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.

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[0:58]Joanna Margaret is the author of the book West. Joanna is an art historian whose previous writing and scholarly work has focused on Florentine aristocrats in 16th century France.

[1:08]She holds a PhD from the University of St. Andrews and an MFA from NYU, where Joyce Caroloat served as her thesis advisor.

[1:14]You can also listen to Joyce Caroloat's on this podcast. The book West is her first novel.

[1:19]Welcome, Joanna. I thank you so much for coming on mobs don't have time to read books to discuss the book West.

[1:25]Thank you, Zibi. It's so great to be here. Such an honor to be on your podcast.

[1:29]Aw, thank you for saying that. Can you please tell listeners what your book is about?

[1:35]Sure. So it's about this young woman, American woman, Isabelle Henley, who goes to Scotland to start a PhD in history, and she becomes embroiled in this 450-year-old mystery.

[1:49]You, I read a bunch of different interviews that you did about the inspiration for this book and from

[1:59]your own PhD in 16th century history in Scotland and all this stuff, but say it better than I can

[2:06]regurgitate it. Oh, sure, sure. So I have a PhD in 16th century history, and I actually I was doing some

[2:16]research in the Florentine archives and the Archiviodistato. And I discovered this 16th century

[2:24]woman's coded letter and a key to reading her own code. And it had different letter and number

[2:32]combinations and there were all these sort of, you know, like, you know, 6-5-6-ment betrayal or

[2:38]treason or all these sort of, you know, very loaded words. So it was really, really cool. And I'd

[2:44]never seen anything like that before, but it sort of led me to wonder what kind of information,

[2:50]you know, was out there in these archives that people didn't know about because it was in

[2:54]inside for letters and, you know, what kind of information, you know, we might glean from

[3:00]historical documents that we don't even know are out there. So that was sort of the original

[3:05]seed for writing this story. And that's where I came up with the idea of this 450-year-old mystery.

[3:11]Wow. That was, you know, could be revealed through Isabelle's research in the archives. And

[3:18]the mystery that she is dealing with has got eerie repercussions with her present story.

[3:24]Yes. Interesting. Well, I love that she even went over there with a friend who she can turn to

[3:31]Rosa. And you know, have somebody and turns out then, of course, this led to the whole plot

[3:37]unfolding. But even the idea of getting to a whole program and having like your advisor not

[3:43]be able to be there because they've just died. I mean, it's so eerie from the beginning, right?

[3:47]That's exactly like that happens to you. Exactly. I wanted to just throw her right in there.

[3:53]And the first thing she discovers is her advisor that she was so excited to work with

[3:58]has died under mysterious circumstances. So just throw her right into the whole

[4:03]maestro move of of deceit and, you know, trying to find out what is what is behind

[4:11]all these strange goings on in St. Stephen's where she is studying. Totally creepy.

[4:15]No, you know, I've actually never been to Scotland. But oh, you have to go. It's amazing.

[4:22]Yeah. Any where Scotland, Ireland, none of those. Wow. Yeah. Oh, you should go.

[4:27]Yeah. You're kids. It's really, yeah. It's beautiful. It's well, if you need

[4:32]recommendations, let me know. Thank you. Okay. I lived there for three years. So.

[4:38]Wow. Wait. So how did you get into studying this period of time?

[4:43]I know you went to high school in New York. Let's go back for two seconds and we'll

[4:46]trace your steps. And I want to figure out how you ended up with Joyce Carol Oats as your advisor

[4:51]and all of that. So, okay, go back to you graduated high school from New York and then what happened?

[4:56]I graduated high school in New York. I went to Columbia for undergrad,

[5:01]so stayed in New York and studied. I was a French major with a history minor.

[5:07]And I did study for my my junior year abroad in Paris. And that was the first time that I started

[5:13]working in the archives and the sort of archival bug, bit me. And I was very, you know,

[5:21]I knew that I wanted to continue doing, you know, work as an archival historian. So I did my

[5:28]undergraduate thesis on Marie Antoinette's household and I worked with a professor at the Sorbonne

[5:34]there. So that was, you know, and I did that, you know, in collaboration with one of my Columbia

[5:39]professors. So that was part A. And then I, and then I actually went back to to grad school. And

[5:49]that was what I went. That's when I studied at St Andrews and decided I wanted to do a master's

[5:55]in history and PhD in history. And that was the goal was the goal to teach. Like what was that?

[6:02]Yeah. Yeah. Teaching and writing, little combination and, you know, fascination with the period,

[6:08]doing research. And I've worked in Florence a couple of summers doing archival studies there and

[6:15]teaching a little bit there. And so that was, I was always interested in that. And then I wanted

[6:22]to go back and really get into, I mean, I've always written, I've always loved books and I've

[6:29]always been writing stories. And which I'm sure you understand from your own background.

[6:36]So I ended up, you know, applying for MFA programs and got into NYU. And so now I have this entire

[6:45]New York. I've done all the New York school experiences, which has been amazing. And because I

[6:52]always knew I wanted to, you know, experience writing fiction as well as nonfiction. So,

[6:58]so I ended up doing the MFA program. And I was, my first class was in Joyce Carolitz's workshop.

[7:04]And yeah, it was just wonderful. I know she's been on the show a couple of times.

[7:09]She has, yeah, she has a great city major latest book.

[7:14]Yes, I am reading it now. You made it. Very, very scary. I did want you to intimidate it. I

[7:22]would be so intimidated to start school under like a total master. Totally. Yes, very, very much,

[7:29]very much. And, you know, I mean, I've been reading her since like sixth grade. So,

[7:34]all of a sudden she's in class. But she was wonderful and she's really a great teacher. And,

[7:39]you know, I mean, I remember talking with someone and they were like, sometimes there are great

[7:44]writers and sometimes there are great teachers that are not necessarily the same. And I feel like

[7:50]she's both. So I was really lucky to take that workshop with her. And it was just really

[7:57]felt very, very grateful to have had that experience to work with her and learn from her.

[8:02]The thing. And I read that you were targeting 200 or 300 pages and she told you to make your book

[8:08]like 600 pages. Yes, exactly. Exactly. I remember going and she said, well, how long is this

[8:13]going to be? And I said, I don't know, maybe like 350 pages. She said, no, no, no. This is,

[8:19]that's not, that's not, she said, she said, once people sort of get involved with solving

[8:24]mysteries and wanting to know about these characters, she's like, they're going to want a longer book.

[8:29]So I did, I did expand it a lot. And you know, got sort of more into the intricacies of these

[8:35]mysteries going on. Wow. So tell me about the writing process of it and how you brought it all

[8:43]the research, but how you structured the narrative and how long it took to write. I know it was

[8:48]like eight years ago or something that you showed the codes like about eight years. Yeah,

[8:53]exactly. Yeah. So it was eight years ago, I found the code. And then I started, you know,

[8:59]drafting it. And it's gone, it's, it's undergone many different versions. So when different drafts,

[9:07]so it actually, well, it evolved a lot since it was my thesis at NYU. And then eventually,

[9:14]well, I, the first, the first version that I wrote actually rose wasn't a character. She was

[9:20]just a sort of spectral figure. And I was doing kind of a Rebecca thing like she was this previous

[9:25]researcher that had studied this Italian family, the Falcone. And then she had disappeared. And we

[9:31]were trying to find out what happened to her. And she sort of appears at the end. So spoiler alert.

[9:37]But then I, when I rewrote it, I was like, no, I want her to be a character in this. And I thought

[9:44]that, you know, give Isabelle's stronger motivation to sort of find out what happened,

[9:51]solve some of these mysteries if it had to do with her close friend. So that was a big change

[9:57]bringing her into the narrative. So.

[10:00]So, you know, I talk about this with Joyce a lot too. You have to like know where you're going to know where you start

[10:07]So I ended up so that was a big thing like I rewrote the beginning once I had the new ending

[10:14]several times

[10:16]So that was the last thing I did actually

[10:19]It's sort of interesting to write something in reverse and then to sort of write something, you know

[10:25]I mean the projects that I was working on for the MFA

[10:28]I was doing some short stories. I wrote a novella and this was different is sort of fit into the confines of a specific genre and

[10:37]You know writing something that's sort of mystery suspense thriller

[10:41]You can't sort of you know reveal too much information in the beginning or at once you sort of have to reveal it slowly over time

[10:49]So that was like a big challenge for me especially coming from academic writing where you know

[10:54]You have your your thesis and then you have to prove different points

[10:58]So it's like totally, you know, I had to start from scratch in terms of my process

[11:02]So I think that was that was a good experience for me

[11:07]So working on the craft at the same time as you know having this very

[11:12]Defined structure and specific structure. So that was definitely

[11:16]You know a challenge

[11:19]Wait and tell me somebody said something about giving you advice to read the godfather

[11:24]Yeah, yeah

[11:25]actually that was when I was doing my PhD and this this professor at St. Andrews

[11:31]Scottish history

[11:32]Professor said if you want to learn about the 16th century

[11:37]You should watch the first godfather film read the first godfather book. It did you yeah

[11:42]Yeah, yeah, no, I mean and that you know this whole like

[11:46]system with clients and

[11:48]Sort of you know, I mean it's sort of mimics the the court system in in the early modern period. So

[11:55]That was definitely

[11:57]educational, but it's true like you know and all those sort of

[12:01]Things going on behind the scenes and all these manipulations were very relevant to both the historical world and also the world of fiction

[12:10]So I wanted those to I mean I wanted the historical documents and the history that's unfolding in the historical

[12:18]Period to be in the next by what is going on in the contemporary storyline

[12:24]speaks me think I got a this beautiful copy of the anniversary edition of the godfather this year

[12:31]Beautiful and now I'm wondering where I put it because I really should have included it in this gift guide

[12:37]I just put it up, but it's beautiful and it has this great cover

[12:42]But then when you take the cover off underneath which I always like to like peek under the flaps on the front is the

[12:48]The the force head or maybe it was the back the back of the front and the other one is like related

[12:53]I know it's very cool. It's very very cool. That's amazing. I want to see that

[12:58]Where I don't even know where I put them anyway. Yeah, so and I recently watched

[13:03]I don't know if you've seen it. There was a whole thing a whole mini series

[13:07]I guess or limited series about

[13:09]The making of the godfather with the guy who starred in the new top-gun movie. Oh, I heard this. It's like the kid

[13:16]Yes, yes

[13:18]Right. I'm sorry. My brain does not work each day. It is so good. It's so good. Right. I want to watch that you have to watch it

[13:25]It's amazing and even if you don't like the godfather you will still love it because it's just like what it means to be a producer and

[13:31]How hard it was to get that movie made and all these

[13:35]Like Hollywood old-school Hollywood

[13:37]Moments. That's so cool. Yeah, we were just in LA and my husband went to this exhibition

[13:44]And it was like a exhibition all on the making of the godfather also and they have the horses head exhibit. Yeah

[13:51]Yeah, and I don't know if you saw it, but I heard that you're opening a new bookstore in LA. That's so exciting

[13:57]Congratulations. I am. I'm opening a bookstore in LA. I'm so excited. Yes. That's amazing

[14:03]Yeah, I'm going to open

[14:05]2023 thanks CBD depends on the renovations, but we've ordered the flooring and a lot of the other materials and

[14:14]Yeah, I'm very excited. That's so cool. That's so exciting. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah, wait to visit next time in LA

[14:21]I hope it'll be opened by February March. That's wow. Okay. Yeah, that's my goal. Yeah

[14:27]It's like been a lifelong dream. So I mean like so many book lovers, but I know the funny part is like

[14:34]You know, it's not like it's so hard to buy books. You're like we don't need a bookstore to buy books

[14:41]There's something else which I feel like

[14:44]Has never been more obvious to me than since making this announcement

[14:47]You know, like we can all go online and buy a book in two seconds. It has nothing to do with that

[14:51]It's it's much more about the connections and community and like what it means to be inside of a bookstore and surrounded by books and

[14:58]All of that other stuff is what's much more important in appealing

[15:02]You're absolutely right. No, and that's also like that's why I love working with

[15:07]mysterious press and having this like

[15:10]bricks and mortar like bookstore in downtown Manhattan, which is so amazing

[15:15]Sure, you've been and I actually have not been I have to go

[15:22]Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be really fun and it's just you know

[15:26]That's that's so great this whole like tradition of

[15:30]editors and writers having you know an actual bookstore too, so

[15:36]You must be I'll go we'll have to go as a yeah, it'll be a competitive analysis

[15:41]So I can make it like it feel like a work trip

[15:46]Yes

[15:48]Sorry, yeah, I love I love that tradition this sort of press and

[15:53]Bookstore combination. It's just it's just amazing and yeah, and let me know when you want to go

[16:00]Okay, amazing. They're actually I don't know

[16:02]Maybe you've already been roped into this, but there's in April. There's going to be a mystery and crime writers

[16:08]Festival slash retreat

[16:10]I think we're like a festival in the Hamptons that the town of East Hamptons is organizing

[16:15]Cool like speakers and

[16:18]That but I feel like you would be perfect. I would love that. That would be amazing. Yes

[16:24]myself a note

[16:25]Put you in touch with the organizer, but that sounded so fun. This isn't really my genre

[16:31]We don't publish this and I you know, but it just seems like so so cool. So so cool. That sounds great. Like a trip to a graveyard

[16:45]Okay, I will do that. What kind of books do you like to read? I am just a

[16:50]I'm omnivorous as a reader and just everything. I mean, I you know any genre

[16:56]I mean for them of a

[16:59]Obviously focused on a lot of flittery fiction that I and

[17:03]Before that, you know a lot of long history books written by French academics

[17:12]And now I am reading some books written by some some of my colleagues

[17:17]So other other mysterious press and Scarlet writers

[17:23]So Jamie Lynn Hendrix, Debbie Babbitt, Mandy McHugh, I'll have books that came out this past year

[17:30]So I'm reading all of their books

[17:32]Which are great and like I said, Joyce's Joyce's latest

[17:38]babysitter. Yes

[17:40]I've been doing a deep dive into that and you know, I mean as I write

[17:45]As I prepare my next book I sort of like to stick with the specific genre that I'm writing in so for reading as well

[17:52]Sort of keeping it in the mystery thriller suspense world for now. Wait. What is your next book?

[17:59]So I'm doing another sort of dark academia that is is taking shape now

[18:05]But it's set in the states not in not in Europe this time

[18:08]So that's a big but again sort of the historical element that that resonates

[18:15]With with the present contemporary storyline. I feel like you should do something with Trinity Church downtown. Yeah

[18:22]Oh, yeah, I love that place. Right. It's a very spooky like what are the stories there?

[18:27]Let's it ghosts lurking. Yes, it is. There is something very spooky about it

[18:31]You always like you walked down, you know any random street in New York and they're we forget like there's so much history so many interesting

[18:40]Things I mean I lived here my whole life and I'm sure you feel like this too

[18:44]And I still like discover stuff like that like just all of a sudden, you know some

[18:49]Some corner of New York that has all this history that I don't even know about so it's a constant process of discovery

[18:58]My husband's Danish and sometimes he'll be like, oh, you know

[19:03]I just took this long walk and I found this new cemetery that I didn't even know about in New York

[19:07]And I'm like wait, what's cemetery?

[19:10]That's like amazing also having that

[19:14]You know sort of seeing New York through a you know non native New Yorkers eyes

[19:18]Yeah, my aunt my aunt my husband's dad and his wife

[19:22]Miriam she's from Holland and

[19:25]They're doing the same thing. They're going all these cool places and discovering with fresh eyes and

[19:31]So excited and they keep telling me about all these

[19:33]Societies and building the like really you know here. I am just like stuck in my neighborhood, but yeah, isn't that so cool though, right?

[19:40]Yeah, and you know, I mean, you're also New Yorker and

[19:45]To all of a sudden discover all these new things. I know it's true

[19:49]Refreshing it is refreshing. Okay. Well Joanna. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on to discuss

[19:55]To the request. I feel like I should I can I'm holding up my hands under

[20:00]Yeah, it's holding a book.

[20:00]Thank you so much.

[20:01]This is so such an honor to be on your show.

[20:04]And so nice to finally meet you, you too.

[20:08]And I'm so glad to know you're in New York.

[20:09]So when I have more events and bring all that back,

[20:13]I'd love to get together and all that.

[20:15]That would be great.

[20:16]That would be really, really nice.

[20:18]Where is the bookstore we were talking about going?

[20:21]It is in Tribeca, I can I'll send it.

[20:24]OK, try back it.

[20:24]That's all I need to do.

[20:25]OK, let me think about when I could get down there.

[20:27]And let's do it.

[20:29]This is great.

[20:30]All right, we'll do a little research trip together.

[20:33]OK.

[20:34]That's amazing.

[20:35]All right.

[20:36]Thank you so much.

[20:37]Thank you for that.

[20:38]OK, take care.

[20:39]Bye bye.

[20:40]Goodbye.

[20:42]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.

[20:44]Don't have time to read books.

[20:45]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens

[20:48]and at Moms.

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