Sadeqa Johnson, THE HOUSE OF EVE
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[0:54]Siddiqua Johnson is the author of the house of Eve
[1:01]Siddiqua is the award-winning author also of and then there was me second house from the corner love in a carry-on bag and yellow
[1:09]wife
[1:10]Yellow wife was a 2022 Hurston Wright Foundation legacy nominee a BCLA literary honoree and
[1:16]Abaronson Noble book club pick and paperback her other accolades including the National Book Club conference award
[1:22]The fill is weekly book award and the USA best book award for best fiction
[1:27]She is a kim billio fellow and teachers in the MFA program at Drexel University
[1:32]originally from Philadelphia
[1:33]She currently lives near Richmond Virginia with her husband and three children and
[1:38]By the way the website I was trying to remember was called jolly vintage. You'll see what I mean
[1:42]Welcome Siddiqua. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss the house of Eve
[1:47]Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to be here
[1:50]So it's so wonderful to chat with you. I've been devouring this book. I love it
[1:55]I love the characters. I could not put it down. I you know, you never know and you pick up a book
[2:00]What hits you and what does it and this just like totally got me so anyway, really enjoyed so much
[2:06]Thank you so much. That means a lot because you know as writers
[2:09]We spend a lot of time in our heads and our offices by ourselves and you really never know what's gonna happen
[2:16]Turn that book in that's true. I feel like your characters though are so real
[2:21]You're like rooting for them so much for the very beginning
[2:25]You just become immediately
[2:27]Invested in their emotions and their lives and the stakes that they're I mean, it's just
[2:32]It's hard not to feel compassionate and like you know rude for the for the women in this book
[2:37]I mean really so
[2:39]Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Explain to listeners what the book is about
[2:44]Okay, well the house of Eve
[2:47]It's set in 1950s. It goes back between two different perspectives
[2:51]So Ruby is a 15-year-old girl
[2:54]Who is on track to be the first in her family to attend college in spite having a mother who is more interested in her boyfriend
[3:02]Then she is in taking care of her daughter
[3:04]A taboo love affair threatens to pull her back into poverty which has been let pretty much laid out for her like a birthright
[3:12]Meanwhile in Washington D.C. We have Eleanor Poros who arrives with ambition and secrets
[3:18]And she falls in love with the handsome William Pride at Howard University
[3:24]But getting into his family is not as easy as she thinks they don't just let anybody into their fold and so
[3:30]These two women stories collide in a very interesting way and at the heart of the story
[3:35]There's this thing that sort of pulls them all together and hope it's a really satisfying read
[3:41]It is a really satisfying read. I also think this is one of the most
[3:46]Perfect, you know almost like a wedding gift. I mean like if you think your mother-in-law is tough read this book
[3:53]Yes, yeah hard to fit into someone else's family and particularly when they have all these
[4:00]sort of preconceived notions and prejudice and all of that and which was just horrific here, but anyway
[4:08]And it was fun. It was sort of fun for me to dive into you know
[4:12]Diving into what social class felt like and you know during these times in the 50s what family look like and
[4:19]Sort of playing all the roles
[4:21]You know as the writer I get to play all the different parts in the story, so that was a lot of fun
[4:26]That's wonderful
[4:27]And I love that you have a character who's an archivist at the library
[4:31]Which is great
[4:32]I feel like we were looking at all the things as she pulled them out
[4:36]And we could kind of see we give us like little glimpses at the actual materials
[4:40]Is that something that you've been involved in yourself?
[4:43]Not so much
[4:44]But I do like to include real characters in my historical fiction novels and when I was doing research on Howard University
[4:51]Which is where Eleanor and William meet I came across a woman named Dorothy Porter and
[4:57]For 40 years
[4:59]She was responsible for at masking the largest collection of African African American African Caribbean
[5:06]art and art of fact and literature
[5:08]for the Moreland Spring Garden
[5:11]Collection at the library and so I thought my how she needs to be on my story
[5:17]Amazing. Did you go to Howard? I should know that section of life. Yeah
[5:20]No, it's totally fine. No, I didn't go to Howard and I didn't even go to an HBCU
[5:25]So this was also another part of me like living vicariously through my characters so that I can have that experience because I did not
[5:33]amazing
[5:34]You have a character Shimmy who sort of attracts the attention chimney, right? That's his name. Yeah
[5:40]attracts the attention of
[5:42]Ruby
[5:43]So he's a white Jewish boy his father's an alcoholic and you know, they work in the neighborhood
[5:50]Their store and well he works at a different store. The father's like the super
[5:54]essentially right
[5:55]I mean
[5:56]But yet Ruby is living with her aunt and she's black and there is so much
[6:03]neighborhood societal community
[6:07]antagonism around this whole relationship not to mention that at the time it's still illegal for white and black
[6:13]People to marry and it had only been ratified in one state that it was okay to do this and yet here
[6:18]They are this little these young, you know
[6:21]These crushes on each other as it begins. I won't like say more
[6:24]But tell me about that set up and why a Jewish character and why
[6:30]Yeah, just tell me about about that
[6:32]Yeah, so when I was working on the story of Ruby
[6:36]I really picked my mother's brain
[6:39]My mother grew up in North Philadelphia
[6:41]and in fact the apartment that
[6:43]Aunt Marie lives in where Ruby eventually finds herself in
[6:48]Is one that my mother described to me from her childhood
[6:51]And that it was across the street from the gas station and it was on top of a paint store
[6:55]And the landlord was Jewish and I thought wow
[6:59]What would happen if the landlord's son and this young black girl fell in love
[7:05]I mean, it's the 1950s. It's completely taboo. What would they each be bringing to the table, you know
[7:11]And I always like to say that love knows no color. It knows no class
[7:16]There's always a love story somewhere
[7:18]I remember after the hurricane in New Orleans
[7:21]There was a photographer who was at the
[7:24]Metrodome and or the Superdome and everybody's like in blankets and shelters
[7:29]And he caught a picture of a boy looking at a girl
[7:32]Like in the midst of all of that tragedy
[7:34]There was the love of the boy looking at the girl
[7:36]And I thought the same thing for the house of Eve that in the midst of all of these
[7:41]You know wonderful and horrific and things that are happening in the story
[7:44]There's always love and there's there's always unlikely love
[7:49]in stories and I thought that the two of them together
[7:53]Was just a wonderful pair. I just enjoy writing them so much
[7:57]Oh my gosh
[7:58]Meanwhile, William Pride. I want to like go find this guy
[8:01]He sounds like so I was like I have to beat this man
[8:05]What a cutie. Oh my gosh. I love how you I mean you could literally like feel his like sexiness sort of off the page
[8:13]It's hard to do that in right. I mean, it's it's good
[8:15]I don't know something about his back and the way
[8:18]And that was the first thing that falls on this person
[8:22]Yeah, that back. I'm telling you the first very first scene that I envisioned with Eleanor and William
[8:29]It was his back and I thought where did that come from and it just became a theme throughout the story
[8:35]Wow, so how much is this did you have in mind before you started like what German idea did you begin with and how much was
[8:42]Outlined versus what unfolded as you went
[8:45]Well, the story actually started when I start thinking about my own family history
[8:51]I had an idea of Ruby
[8:53]I knew that she was a 15-year-old girl
[8:56]I knew that she had a body shape like a coca-cola bottle and that man grown man cat called her on the street
[9:03]And I knew she had a mother who didn't want her and that was like it
[9:07]And as I started thinking about my own family history
[9:10]I remembered that my grandmother told me that she had gotten pregnant with my mother at age 14
[9:16]And that she had her at 15 and she was unmarried
[9:19]And she was shamed and her family was completely and utterly disappointed
[9:24]And so they hid the pregnancy from everyone
[9:27]Including the child
[9:28]So my mother tells me that she didn't know my grandmother was her mother until she was in the third grade
[9:34]Because up into that point she had lived with her grandmother
[9:37]And I thought wow, what does this do to the child and what does this do to the mother?
[9:43]And this was the early 1950s and if my grandmother had other opportunities
[9:48]How could her life had turned out differently?
[9:51]And this was the beginning of me doing a little research and I came across these maternity homes
[9:56]And I found that between 1945 and 1945
[10:00]75. 1.5 million babies were born in these homes. This was before IVS. This was before
[10:08]adoption was not sort of a taboo secretive thing. And so these babies were pretty much given
[10:14]over to families. And these girls were a cohort. They were forced. Sometimes they knew
[10:20]what they were going into the homes for. Sometimes it was a form of punishment when they wanted
[10:25]to keep their babies. They were often told that they could not. But as I was doing this
[10:29]research, I couldn't find a single black woman story in all of the research that I found. And so I
[10:36]thought, well, what did black women do? And so I read a few articles that said, well, you know,
[10:41]they would go down south and have the baby and leave it with a relative. But I wasn't satisfied
[10:46]with that answer because, you know, as a black woman, I know that our stories are not a single
[10:51]narrative, right? I know that it's not just what you see on these reality TV shows. Like we are so
[10:57]much more than that. And I found a book called Our Kind of People by Lawrence Otis Graham. And in
[11:04]the book, he talks about the evolution of these really upper echelon black families beginning and
[11:11]reconstruction going up through the 80s. And in Washington, D.C., there was a group of doctors and lawyers
[11:18]and judges. And they went to Howard and they went to Potilians. And I thought, well, what did those
[11:24]women do when they wanted to have a baby? And so that was how the thread started to come together
[11:31]for me. But Eleanor, I was just in my office one day. And I promised you she just sort of walked
[11:37]in. And she was full of rage. And I could feel desperation coming off of her. And I thought,
[11:44]okay, you want to be in the story. So luckily, I was in the outlining phase of the story.
[11:50]And so I was able to pivot and figure out how to take, I always say I had these beautiful
[11:55]Christmas ornaments. But I need to figure out how to put them on the tree and bring it all together.
[12:00]And so once she came into the story, things started to sort of glow and fill itself out.
[12:06]Wow. That is so fascinating. Oh my gosh. How did you come up with a name, Neaty? Because that's actually
[12:13]my husband's grandmothers. That's what he called her. She passed away. But I sent him a screenshot
[12:18]of what I was reading. All these scenes of Neaty that word the name come from. So my grandmother's mother,
[12:25]so my great grandmother, we used to call her grandma, Neaty. And I thought, oh, I want to do something
[12:31]sort of similar. And I'm always trying to honor my ancestors and all the stories that I wrote.
[12:36]And so it was sort of a nod to that. Oh, that's nice. We even have a family business
[12:42]on my husband's side called Neaty's treats, which makes crumb cake. Oh, I should send you one,
[12:47]actually. Well, I'll send you one. I'll send you one after this. That's wonderful.
[12:54]Scenes like working in the department stores, going downtown, like that scene was so striking when
[13:01]Ruby and her aunt, you know, her aunt gets all dressed up and they go downtown by stockings. And
[13:06]it's this whole big production. And then she gets met with the most horrific, you know,
[13:12]vitriol by a white woman passing her in the street, calling names and all of that. And really,
[13:18]you know, taking the wind out of her sales is an understatement, right? Just totally gutting her.
[13:23]Tell me about that scene in that moment. And did that come from your family history? Or, you know,
[13:29]that that scene of Aunt Marie taking Ruby downtown, I did grow up in Philadelphia. I think I mentioned
[13:35]that. But I was talking to a book club friend who read an earlier draft of Yellow Wife for me. And
[13:42]she told me a very similar story had happened to her in Birmingham, Alabama. And I thought, oh my gosh,
[13:48]I could just never left me. And this was years ago. And so as I was writing the story, I knew
[13:54]that I needed to have that pivotal moment with Ruby, where she was faced with racism head-on.
[14:00]Because as the woman who experienced it in Birmingham said, it was the first time that it
[14:05]had ever happened. And it just took the wind out of her sales. And you never forget that first time
[14:12]where racism is directed specifically at you. And I thought we need to have that moment for Ruby
[14:18]specifically because she's in the relationship with Jimmy. I love the mozzabal soup cameo in this book.
[14:27]It looks for you would not expect a bowl of mozzabal soup to appear.
[14:30]But there you go. You never know. What's going to happen? I always try and bring in as many
[14:35]cultural aspects as I can into a story. You have Ruby in the first person, but Eleanor is the
[14:43]third person. Why did you do that? So as I mentioned, Ruby came first and she came and she was up
[14:50]close and she was in my face. And I knew that we needed to walk through the story sort of through
[14:55]her eyes, almost feeling like you were with Ruby, like you were Ruby. And because Eleanor came
[15:02]second, she sort of came, even though it was that rage and that desperation, there was a little bit
[15:07]of space between she and I. I get feel that space. And so my entry point to her was third person.
[15:15]And I wasn't sure if it was going to fly. I just thought I'm going to ride it this way.
[15:20]And as it got through my agent, she said, Oh, that's interesting. Why did you do that? And I'm like,
[15:25]this is why she's like, we'll leave it and we'll figure it out. And then when it got to my editors,
[15:29]they again, that's interesting. And no one told me to change it. And so I'm like, good,
[15:35]I'm going to stick with it. You know, I do leave a little bit of space because I think my
[15:39]professionals that you have around you are your professionals for a reason. So I leave a little
[15:44]bit of space for it, you know, to see what they're going to say. But they're like, oh, that's
[15:48]interesting. And that was sort of it. And so it was able to say, love it. Well, what are you working on now?
[15:54]Oh my goodness. So first of all, I am getting ready for this amazing tour for the house of
[16:00]Eve. I'm going to be on the road for a six, seven, eight weeks. Oh my gosh. It is really, I mean,
[16:08]it's everything that I've always asked for. So I am trying to be in a place of gratitude and not
[16:13]in a place of fear of all the airplanes and trains and automobiles I need to catch to meet everyone.
[16:19]But I'm really focused on that. I have a new idea in my head for a novel and I'm trying to just
[16:26]scratch out my outline before I go on tour so that I have something to come back to.
[16:31]It's just seeds right now, but it is another historical and it takes place in the late 1940s,
[16:37]maybe up to about the mid 1960s, another person who I found in history who is a unknown character
[16:46]or not a well-known person, but I think that her life was beautiful and her story needs to be told.
[16:54]And so I'm trying to figure out how to tell it, you know. As a historical fiction writer,
[16:59]I find or I feel that my job is to go into these dark spaces and flash a light on women,
[17:08]particularly, but stories that have been untold or have been forgotten or have been mistalled
[17:15]and and give them justice, you know. And so that's what I want to do with this next novel.
[17:19]So I'm still kind of spreading my little seedlings around so that's, I love it.
[17:25]Wait, back to the tour. So how many places are you going?
[17:30]I feel where are you going? So I am going to, I'm in Richmond. So as Richmond, Philadelphia,
[17:37]Washington, D.C., Wilmington, Delaware, Raleigh, North Carolina, Jackson, Mississippi,
[17:43]Oxford, Mississippi, Denver, Colorado, a few steps in California, Rhode Island. So New Jersey,
[17:53]so I'm sort of everywhere, Indianapolis. So I'm going to be busy. I'm going to be really,
[18:01]really busy. Oh my gosh, how does your teenager feel about this? Well, they are. I'm trying
[18:06]to sort of give them a little bit more responsibility, so that they can kind of
[18:11]them for themselves. I'm like, honey, you're not going to be able to ask me what's for dinner.
[18:15]You know, last night she put my 17 year old came in and had like 30 minutes. She's like,
[18:19]my wisdom, I have to go back to school. And I'm like, okay, let me just pull it together.
[18:23]And I'm like, you know, I'm not going to be here. Love, you're going to have to pull it
[18:26]together. So we'll see, you know, they'll, they'll be fine. They're all resilient and they'll have
[18:32]my husband, so they'll figure it out. I'm trying to do that with my little guys. I have a,
[18:37]I have twins who are 15 and a half, but then I have an eight and nine year old. And you know,
[18:42]they're still like, oh, maybe breakfast. I'm like, just you know where the yogurt is. You know
[18:46]where the cereal is. I'm not doing the city work. Go get it. Go do try it. Why is my pouring the milk
[18:52]any better? But I guess it's like a caretaking love thing. You know, I think they just like it.
[18:56]And I think too, when we make their plate, we know what's on it. That's true.
[19:01]Like that is true. So I know that's why I still make my 15 and my 17 year old plate because I
[19:06]know with on it. And I know that that veggie is in there. That's true. Yeah. I did walk down once
[19:11]and see him having like a bowl of tortilla chips. And I was like, Oh, this is not going to happen.
[19:18]No, this is not breakfast. Anyway, that's funny. Well, that's so exciting. This is all so great.
[19:24]I'm just so excited to watch you like celebrate this, but it's really good and really,
[19:30]it's just really good. Is it going to be a movie? Have you sold the rights?
[19:33]Oh, my goodness. So from your lips to God's ears, right? That is always the dream.
[19:39]So I will keep you posted on that. Okay. I always like to say that, you know, something behind
[19:44]the scenes is sort of working on my behalf. And it just has not reached me just yet.
[19:49]The basic. And in your downtime, what do you like to read?
[19:52]So I just finished reading Eleanor Shira's new book,
[19:55]River Sing Me Home, which I thought was just beautiful. And listen.
[20:00]paying right now to the violent conspiracy.
[20:02]Oh, I love it.
[20:03]Oh, I love it.
[20:04]Oh, love, yes.
[20:06]And the narrator is so good.
[20:07]I'm always reading one book and listening
[20:09]to one book at the same time.
[20:11]So that's sort of what's on my plate right now.
[20:13]Can we say?
[20:15]Well, I'm opening a bookstore in California next month.
[20:17]So if you're out in the LA area
[20:19]and you want to pop by or whatever,
[20:21]it's a good amount of good.
[20:22]Oh, I love that.
[20:24]I'm in Los Angeles, I think, the third week of February.
[20:28]So we'll have to connect on that.
[20:30]I love to happen.
[20:31]Amazing.
[20:32]Yeah, we opened February 18th and 19th
[20:34]and having author signings all weekend.
[20:35]So oh, wow.
[20:37]OK, well, we'll have to connect on that.
[20:40]Yeah, I'll touch these with your fellowsists and see.
[20:44]But yeah, do you have a dress?
[20:46]By the way, I know your shirt looks very much.
[20:47]So the same color scheme is the dress on the cover,
[20:50]which is this fabulous blue and woman, you know, look at all.
[20:54]I do not have my blue dress yet.
[20:57]And so I've put out a message yesterday
[20:59]on Instagram for some help.
[21:01]So people have been sending me links where I can go
[21:03]and find a dress.
[21:04]I really want to dress like the cover of the book for my,
[21:07]for my, at least the first night of publication.
[21:12]So we will see.
[21:13]I am, I am, I have a little time.
[21:15]I'm going to try to find you this link too,
[21:17]because my husband found this,
[21:18]I was saying how I want to dress like the marvelous
[21:20]Mrs. Basil, you know, I just like love that time period.
[21:22]Like this pretty much like this too.
[21:25]I'll pretend that this is what my body looks like.
[21:27]And that's okay.
[21:28]Anyway, he found this costume design place
[21:31]where all the dresses are like between $25 and $50,
[21:34]but they all have that same style,
[21:36]like the fabric size,
[21:37]but it's, it'll do what it needs to do.
[21:40]It does want, it did the trick.
[21:41]Yeah.
[21:42]I'm going to look for it after this.
[21:45]And I'll see if I can send it.
[21:46]But anyway, Steve,
[21:48]I was so nice to chat with you.
[21:49]Just great to get to know you
[21:51]and congratulations on the house of Eve.
[21:53]Well, thank you so much.
[21:54]And if your viewers would love to find me
[21:57]and find out where my book tour is,
[21:59]please go to my website,
[22:01]which is Siddiquajohnson.net.
[22:04]Click on the event section.
[22:05]You can follow me on Instagram.
[22:07]I am Siddiqua says, and I'm also on Facebook and Twitter.
[22:10]It has been an honor and a privilege.
[22:12]You don't know how long I have waited
[22:14]to be able to speak with you.
[22:16]So, see.
[22:16]Oh, yeah.
[22:18]Yeah, my gosh.
[22:19]I feel like it's an honor.
[22:20]So there you go.
[22:22]Well, thank you.
[22:23]I super appreciate this invitation.
[22:25]And it's been a great time with you.
[22:27]So, you too.
[22:28]All right, thanks.
[22:29]All right.
[22:29]Thank you.
[22:30]Bye-bye.
[22:31]Bye.
[22:33]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[22:35]Don't have time to read books.
[22:36]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[22:40]and at Moms.
[22:40]Don't have time to read books.
[22:42]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[22:44]and sign up for my virtual book club
[22:46]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[22:48]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[22:50]Heck, texture sound for the sound editing.
[22:52]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[22:54]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.