Gothataone Moeng, CALL AND RESPONSE: Stories

[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.

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[0:58]Goetha Tone-Mung is the author of Call and Response Stories. I may have mispronounced that.

[1:03]She was born in Siroue, Botswana, and was a Wallace Stegner fellow-in-fiction,

[1:08]a summer workshop scholar at Tinhouse and an emerging writer fellow at a public space.

[1:13]Her writing has appeared, or is forthcoming in American Short Fiction, one story, Virginia Quarterly Review,

[1:18]a public space, plow shares, and Oxford American.

[1:21]She holds an MFA in creative writing from the University of Mississippi and is currently at work on a novel.

[1:26]Welcome. Thank you so much for coming on Moms, and I'm time to read books.

[1:30]By the way, I don't know when this is coming out, but this is my very first podcast of 2023, 9am on the first day back of the year.

[1:38]So here we are. Happy New Year. Thanks for coming on to discuss your collection of stories called Call and Response.

[1:45]Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have you, and I know people who are listening cannot see,

[1:53]but you are wearing the coolest giant hoop earrings, which I love minor times today,

[1:58]but I have some more sizes. I'm a hoop addict. Anyway, okay.

[2:03]Tell everybody about your collection of stories. Tell me about the writing process.

[2:07]What's the book about? What are the stories about? And I'm also curious as to the aunt in one of the stories

[2:14]and how she became the patient, and I would love to talk about that one in a little more depth.

[2:18]Thank you. Go ahead.

[2:20]Okay. So a call and response is a collection of stories set in Botswana, which is where I'm from.

[2:28]The stories are set mostly between my home village of Sarua, which is the village in central, central district of Botswana.

[2:36]And so the subject in Sarua and how about a new, which is the capital city of Botswana.

[2:41]I'd say that this great center, the lives of women, both young and old, as they grapple with modern life in to digital in that in a society that's the traditional, but it's also like changing very rapidly.

[2:57]So these women and these goals have to sort of self define against the prejudice of the duties that families into their communities.

[3:06]So I think that, you know, like a number of the characters dream of bigger, maybe like more romantic prospects for their lives.

[3:14]But they feel very constrained about the smallness of their lives and the smallness of the village and the smallest of the country.

[3:20]But, you know, I would say that these stories are a universal. I think that they tell universal experiences of women who didn't go hood.

[3:29]So, you know, you have girls and women dealing with just like normal relationship issues like, you know, because maybe, you know, like characters that are following enough for the first time, characters that are dealing with complex family measures, characters that really just want to be loved or, you know, who reconsidering the choices that they've made in their lives.

[3:48]And, yeah, just like really normal universal experiences of the womanhood.

[3:53]And there's a lot about being a daughter too.

[3:56]I feel like, in particular, your first story at least, which I read carefully to discuss.

[4:02]But there's a family and the aunt is living next door.

[4:07]And you have this beautiful imagery, beautiful way that you write where there's a wall between the daughter and the aunt.

[4:13]And they're both sort of facing the wall in their beds.

[4:16]And she realizes that actually they've been sort of laying there, looking at each other with just a wall between them.

[4:22]I don't know, that was such a beautiful image.

[4:24]So lovely. And also the obligations.

[4:27]So this one niece, the mom, she can't go to this wedding.

[4:31]She's so excited to go.

[4:32]And the mom is like, no, you're the one.

[4:34]You take such good care of her.

[4:36]You have to stay back and then the tension between her and her nephew.

[4:39]Well, her, her half sister who I didn't get anyway.

[4:43]Because I'm sorry, cousin.

[4:45]And what it means to have to fulfill your familial obligations and forego some of your own fun and sort of that deep resentment.

[4:51]I felt like I was totally missing out on this party myself.

[4:54]I was like, no, like, what's going to happen?

[4:57]I can't believe it.

[4:58]And just how much you have to give up sometimes to be a part of something else when maybe you don't want it in the end.

[5:04]Yeah.

[5:05]I mean, I think that that is a sentiment for a lot of women.

[5:09]I think probably worldwide, but I think particularly in such traditional cultures,

[5:14]like as in what's going on, where as a woman, you do have to self sacrifice sometimes.

[5:18]And I think that a lot of these characters do feel that obligation, you know,

[5:23]like they feel prejudiced by their duties to their families.

[5:26]And it's like a portion pole between what they want for their own lives

[5:31]and what is the expectations placed on them by their families and our society.

[5:37]And, you know, what is the right way to live within this community, that kind of thing.

[5:41]Interesting.

[5:42]You also, I feel like, use hair as an interesting like theme throughout the book.

[5:50]And maybe I'm particularly attuned to this because literally my kid,

[5:53]one of my kids just finished like a whole segment on hair at school and all the ways it teaches you about culture and identity and all of this.

[6:00]But you start out with the aunt whose hair of course is thinning.

[6:03]She's very ill and everything.

[6:04]And then you go all the way to the end where you have Sadie or Sadie cutting her hair off and upsetting her family.

[6:11]So I don't know.

[6:12]I felt like there was something about that or maybe I'm just maybe not.

[6:17]I think that hair is a very powerful and potent.

[6:24]I guess maybe like a metaphor for self-actualization.

[6:27]I think especially for black women, you know, we have to adhere to like European standards of beauty and hair.

[6:35]It's like one of those standards of beauty where you really have to have like straight hair, relaxed your hair.

[6:41]When I was younger, we all had to relax our hair.

[6:45]And I remember when I cut off my hair, when I was actually sort of around the same age as the character industry.

[6:52]You know, my hair was very long.

[6:55]My hair was relaxed and very long and everybody was shocked and my mother was upset.

[7:00]And then I had, you know, I had locks, I had rocks for a long time.

[7:04]And you know, people were like, why don't you take that idea of your hair just because it wasn't natural.

[7:08]Not because it was dirty.

[7:09]You were like, it wasn't tidy or anything.

[7:11]But just because it's in its natural state, people think it's like dirty or filthy or whatever.

[7:16]And so in that story, the first version of GTS era, which is the story with the character study.

[7:24]She's a character who is attempting to define herself or herself, who is inventing herself essentially, who is trying to shrug off the definitions placed on her other people by, you know, her parents, her mom, her dad, friends in wooden school.

[7:41]And she's like trying to figure out who she is.

[7:44]And hair is one of the things that she uses.

[7:46]Like when she cuts off her hair is a way for her to really, I guess like start a fridge, like define herself, like find herself.

[7:54]Yeah.

[7:55]So yeah, I think, I think you're right that it is used to interestingly in the story.

[8:01]Interesting.

[8:02]How did you get from there, from writing these stories to here?

[8:08]And how did you become interested in short story as a form?

[8:12]And how like, what are we doing here? Tell me, tell me your whole story.

[8:16]How did you start, when did you start writing, when did you, how did you decide to do short stories?

[8:21]I know you're at work on a novel.

[8:23]What's your story?

[8:24]So I was one of those kids who was always interested in writing.

[8:30]I think that, you know, when I was maybe 14 years old, I was always being, you know, trying to write, trying to write a book.

[8:39]So I knew that I wanted to write my, for the majority of my life, but I never really got around to it until I was in undergrad, which, you know, I'm from persona.

[8:49]And so I did my undergrad education, and I didn't, all of my education was on a, I came to the US in 2014 to pursue my.

[8:58]And my family created writing.

[9:00]So I, so I, some of you here in 2014 to pursue my, my family created writing, which I did at the University of Mississippi.

[9:07]And I wrote, I think that the oldest story in the book I wrote during that time.

[9:13]And, and I've been writing stories ever since then, I chose to write short stories because I really love them as a form.

[9:21]I think also they feel to me just like the perfect.

[9:25]And then, even though I will say that my story is a fairly long, but I like just like dipping into a character story.

[9:32]And I like the fact that with a short story you could tell many, many years within like a shorter space of time.

[9:40]And I also think that for me short stories feel much closer to my own temperament in that I feel like they're very inward looking.

[9:48]They kind of don't cry attention to themselves.

[9:51]They kind of work mysteriously.

[9:54]And, you know, they just like very inward looking and and don't cry attention.

[10:00]themselves, and I think that is who I am in a nutshell.

[10:04]Interesting.

[10:05]Author as the short story term.

[10:09]Yes, I love it.

[10:12]I worked with a woman named Lee Newman,

[10:14]who also writes short stories.

[10:16]And we started our publishing company together.

[10:18]And she would always say that even though they're short stories,

[10:22]if you could master the short story,

[10:24]it's like the most difficult and huge achievement

[10:29]to be able to pull off a short story.

[10:31]It might seem simple, but that is misleading.

[10:35]I agree.

[10:37]What is the novel that you work in?

[10:39]It's very early days.

[10:42]So I don't know if I can say much about what it's about,

[10:47]but it is said in what's on our own.

[10:49]It's set in Haberani, which is the capital city office on that.

[10:53]And it's just about young people living in the city

[10:58]and trying to find love and relationships

[11:01]and just find a way to live.

[11:05]Like what is the right way to live?

[11:06]Yeah, it sounds very big, but that is what it's about right now.

[11:13]But it is very early days.

[11:14]So you know, it might change.

[11:16]So yeah, but I'm not working very hard on it.

[11:21]That sounds great.

[11:23]So tell me the story of getting your book deal

[11:26]and having the book come out and all of that.

[11:29]So in 2020, I was living in some Francisco.

[11:34]I, this was just around the time that the pandemic started.

[11:38]And so I started creating, I knew that I had to go back home

[11:42]to persona, because I thought that it would probably be better

[11:46]to be at home during the pandemic,

[11:50]like if anything happens to me, I should be at home.

[11:52]So I knew that I was going home and I wanted to.

[11:56]So I just sort of created a bunch of edit agents.

[12:00]And by the time I got back home,

[12:02]I had gotten responses from some of them.

[12:05]And I, so, you know, I got my agent

[12:08]while I was back in home in persona

[12:10]and worked on the stories for a couple of months.

[12:13]My agent is Julie Bearer, who is at the book group,

[12:16]who is a really incredible agent.

[12:18]And I really love her and I'm so grateful to her for so much.

[12:21]So we worked on the stories for a couple of months.

[12:23]And then I think May 2021 was when the book

[12:28]went out on submission.

[12:30]And there was some interest for some editors.

[12:33]And I eventually went with Viking.

[12:36]So, you know, it's interesting

[12:37]because I came to the US to be camera writer.

[12:40]And then I had to go back home.

[12:41]And that's where everything really happened for me

[12:44]when I was back home in my mother's house in the village.

[12:47]So that was really interesting.

[12:48]So it did kind of happen.

[12:50]I don't think that it happened very quickly,

[12:51]but I think that I was really lucky in that.

[12:53]I didn't have to keep going back and forth with the editors

[12:55]and, you know, like put in the book back on submission

[12:58]or anything like that.

[12:59]It just went on submission.

[13:00]And there was some interest and then it got sold.

[13:04]And now it's coming out soon.

[13:06]How do you feel about it?

[13:08]I am excited and terrified.

[13:12]And you can imagine honestly, I am excited

[13:17]but I'm also like, oh my God, oh, that's happening, yeah.

[13:23]Well, you're a really beautiful writer.

[13:24]Your imagery is like, I mean, you really put the reader

[13:28]right there.

[13:29]I feel like I was, I got this inside glance

[13:32]inside the homes of the characters you're writing about.

[13:36]Both are internal lives and internal spaces, really.

[13:41]And it was, it was really neat.

[13:43]I have to ask though, what does,

[13:45]and I should have, I meant to like Google this,

[13:47]but you used the word allulating a couple of times.

[13:50]What does that mean?

[13:51]Oh, it's like, I can't actually do this.

[13:55]But it's like a song that you make with your tongue.

[13:57]It's like a two like show, it's like a celebratory sound.

[14:00]So it's like, oh, so people do that at weddings

[14:05]or like a sermon, these are people that they're operating.

[14:08]I know that, yeah, that's something I came out for

[14:11]and I was in workshop with that story

[14:13]because people are like, what is this?

[14:15]Like, what does this mean?

[14:15]I think also in some cultures, you're lating.

[14:18]It's like a morning sound.

[14:22]So it was kind of confusing because some people,

[14:24]but it is a celebratory sound.

[14:26]It's something that you do to celebrate.

[14:28]So in the first story, they do that because it's a wedding.

[14:32]The character which happens is hearing like people,

[14:34]you're relating it, you know,

[14:35]it's essentially like, oh, this wedding is gonna be great.

[14:38]So yeah, that's what it is.

[14:39]I mean, I did that in, it's terrible.

[14:42]It's very beautiful when it's done by some of you

[14:45]actually lose how to do it.

[14:47]I wish I, I could learn.

[14:49]You just did it right then.

[14:51]It was bad though.

[14:53]I mean, I don't know if it's bad or good.

[14:55]It sounded good to me.

[14:58]For all the people listening, they have, I bet you,

[15:01]most people have no comparison set for a good or bad simulator.

[15:05]So you are like the crown jewel of the ool leaders around.

[15:09]That's, that's like, you know,

[15:13]I don't think that's a good thing that that was good,

[15:16]but yeah.

[15:17]Okay.

[15:18]People would love good if it can do it very well.

[15:21]All right. Well, I think it was fine.

[15:23]If that was very interesting, you know, it's like cheering.

[15:27]So interesting how every culture sort of celebrates

[15:30]their great days, their wonderful times,

[15:32]the sounds, the cheers, the, you know, ancient rituals.

[15:35]Anyway.

[15:36]So when you're writing, where do you like to write

[15:39]and how do you do it?

[15:40]Do you just paint me a picture of where you like to sit?

[15:43]Is it what you like to just like the whole process for you?

[15:47]And do you have your characters sort of mapped out

[15:49]or do you just dive deep into your mind or what was it like?

[15:54]I like to try in cases that I feel very comfortable in.

[15:58]So my bedroom, for example, usually write in my bedroom.

[16:02]Sometimes I have like a desk in my bedroom.

[16:04]Right now I write in my kitchen table.

[16:08]My table is usually like really littered with books

[16:13]and notebooks and different versions of the stories

[16:16]that I'm working on.

[16:17]So it's not a very tidy space.

[16:20]But I feel like I know where everything is.

[16:22]Although I do spend some time every time, you know,

[16:25]like I always sometime every time I kind of find

[16:28]the right version of the story.

[16:29]So I write mostly long hand.

[16:32]I will type and then print stuff out

[16:34]and then like work on stuff, long hand.

[16:37]But yeah, I can't do like the public space.

[16:41]I can't go to a coffee shop.

[16:42]I can't go to public spaces

[16:45]because I like to feel very comfortable.

[16:47]I like to be in like pajamas and slippers and cozy socks.

[16:52]So I prefer to try at home.

[16:54]Yeah, it was kind of hard when I was home.

[16:57]I went back home for two years in the during the pandemic.

[17:01]And I had to work from home and you know,

[17:04]I was like living in a village and people

[17:06]just like coming in and out all day.

[17:08]You know, people just like coming in and say hello

[17:11]and they want to you and everything.

[17:13]It was kind of distracting.

[17:14]But you know, I got around to getting up

[17:17]area in the morning and like working in the morning

[17:19]so that when people come, I think it's still

[17:22]going to be welcoming in a good host

[17:24]and a good daughter because I was living with my mother.

[17:26]So yeah.

[17:28]It was like you were living out what you were writing, right?

[17:31]The million obligations and more.

[17:35]Exactly.

[17:37]What advice would you have for aspiring authors?

[17:39]I think that you need a lot of, you need like religious faith

[17:45]because for so much time, you spend

[17:49]by yourself in your working and you can put in a lot of years

[17:52]into your work.

[17:53]And but you don't know if, is ever going to see the light of day

[17:57]or if anybody's ever going to be interested in the work

[18:01]or in publishing it.

[18:02]So you have to just have the faith that was your writing matters

[18:06]and that it would be meaningful to somebody at some point.

[18:10]And maybe just like the thing that is meaningful to you

[18:12]should be, you know, should help you sustain the faith

[18:16]to continue working.

[18:18]So I'd say just keep the faith.

[18:22]Isn't my advice.

[18:27]And what do you do?

[18:28]What do you like to do when you're not writing short stories

[18:31]and having to deal with other people in your village?

[18:35]I really like dancing, but I'm not like a club going person.

[18:40]So I like paying music at home and just dancing by myself at home.

[18:45]And I don't have a lot of hobbies, honestly.

[18:49]I have a lot of movies.

[18:50]That's it.

[18:51]Do you like to read?

[18:53]I like reading.

[18:55]I like, you know, like, a lot of things gossip.

[18:59]So yeah, I like chatting with my friends

[19:04]and just like gossiping in a really low-stakes manner.

[19:09]I love that.

[19:11]Oh, would you for fun?

[19:12]I like to gossip.

[19:13]All right, that's perfect.

[19:14]You too.

[19:15]Me too.

[19:15]Love, sex, gossip.

[19:17]I love it.

[19:17]That's hilarious.

[19:19]I've never thought about it that way.

[19:21]And when you, what do you like to read?

[19:23]Like, what are some of your go-to books?

[19:25]Or what form do you love to read short stories?

[19:27]Or who do you love what authors or what books?

[19:31]I love a lot of short story writers.

[19:34]I really love Edward P. Jones, Alice Monroe.

[19:37]I never know how to say this last name,

[19:39]but made this cilantro and gallant.

[19:41]I like Tiffany and Nick.

[19:43]There's a two-gallon writer named Doreen Bangana.

[19:46]The writer of Missy Head, who is from Botswana,

[19:50]and actually, you know, lived in Star Wars.

[19:52]It's where I'm from.

[19:53]Yeah, right now, I'm actually reading short story collection

[19:58]and cost sustainable living.

[20:00]by El Senecola in the collection of stories that in the Wisconsin area.

[20:06]And I recently finished the transfer of Venus,

[20:10]but I surely had the rich, I really, really loved.

[20:13]Yeah.

[20:13]It's wonderful.

[20:14]Awesome.

[20:15]Can you pronounce your name and say the title of your story again?

[20:20]People have been asking, can you repeat the name of the book at the end, so?

[20:24]And so, my name is Huatatau and name wing.

[20:28]And my book is called and response.

[20:32]Wonderful.

[20:33]Thank you.

[20:34]Thank you for kicking my new year off with this wonderful conversation.

[20:38]I, as we're sitting here talking, I'm like, this is just the coolest thing that

[20:42]how would our paths necessarily have crossed in life?

[20:45]Right?

[20:46]I thought I was thinking of you sitting there opening the door for the villagers with the tea

[20:51]with your mom, trying so hard to get your work done and look at what my experience in the

[20:57]pandemic was like, and here we are, just like chit chatting about this book coming out.

[21:00]It's so cool.

[21:04]Anyway, I'm really inspired by you.

[21:06]I think it's wonderful.

[21:07]The stories are absolutely beautiful.

[21:09]And yeah, I wish you all the best as your book comes out.

[21:14]Thank you so much.

[21:15]All right.

[21:16]Have a great day.

[21:18]Bye.

[21:19]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[21:24]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebiowens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[21:29]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and

[21:33]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[21:36]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.

[21:39]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.