Christie Tate, B.F.F.: A Memoir of Friendship Lost and Found
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Christy Tate is the author of BFF, A Memoir of Friendship, Lost and Found.
[1:08]Christy is also the author of The New York Times Bestseller Group, which was a Reese's
[1:12]Book Club selection.
[1:13]She has been published in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, McSweeney's
[1:17]Internet Tendency in Elsewhere, and she lives in Chicago with her family.
[1:20]By the way, right after we recorded this episode, she got up and went to Zippy's bookshop
[1:25]in Santa Monica and took a bunch of pictures and posted them on her Instagram at Christy
[1:30]Tate, which was so sweet.
[1:32]Anyway, we had a blast talking, and by the way, no, I did not write the word noun, as
[1:36]I said I would after this episode.
[1:38]Well, maybe next time.
[1:40]Welcome, Christy.
[1:41]Thanks for coming back on mom's don't have time to read books.
[1:44]After group, now you're talking about BFF, A Memoir of Friendship, Lost and Found.
[1:48]Congratulations.
[1:49]Thank you so much.
[1:50]Thanks for having me.
[1:51]It's great to talk to you.
[1:52]You too.
[1:53]I always love your books because I get to know all these different sides and bits of
[1:57]of you.
[1:58]I don't know.
[1:59]After you do a few more of these, what's there going to be left to?
[2:01]That'll be nothing left.
[2:02]You will certainly know it all, yes.
[2:04]So why don't you explain to listeners what BFF is about?
[2:09]Sure.
[2:10]I spent a lot of my adult life actually starting at age 17 when I had my first relationship
[2:16]with a boy, and I did the cliche thing of dumping all my friends because my relationship
[2:22]with my very first boyfriend was pretty toxic, and I kept that pattern up.
[2:26]So I spent all my 20s and half of my 30s trying to get straight romantically.
[2:31]And once I settled down and I found the right person for me and it was in a healthy relationship,
[2:36]all of a sudden I looked around and I realized I had a lot of work to do in friendship.
[2:42]And I had a friend who sort of tapped me on the shoulder.
[2:44]Once I settled down and she said, hmm, are you ready to do this work?
[2:48]And she was sort of offering to be like the buddy system and we were going to together
[2:52]learn how to be better friends and let go of this idea that we were the kind of
[2:56]girls who weren't good to be friends with, and we were going to turn that around.
[3:00]And the book is the story of my friend Meredith and I excavating and rehabilitating ourselves
[3:06]as friends.
[3:07]I love that.
[3:08]You talked a lot in the beginning of this book about having a boyfriend who was just,
[3:14]I mean, you mentioned toxic, but the boyfriend who you talk about a lot in the book had
[3:19]a drinking problem, you were by his side, you didn't like it, it raised issues in you,
[3:25]you couldn't figure out a way out essentially, you couldn't alter his behavior, you
[3:30]couldn't leave, tell me more about that relationship and even how it affected your friendships.
[3:35]This is my very first boyfriend ever and I was the kind of girl who, I mean, it was such
[3:41]basic low self-esteem and insecurity.
[3:44]And the minute a boy liked me, of course, I loved him and I would do anything to keep
[3:48]the relationship.
[3:49]And I was a dramatic sensitive 17 year old and also as a side note, I had a lot of secrets,
[3:55]I had an eating disorder.
[3:56]So I was sort of, I had a lot of work to do that I wasn't doing at 17.
[4:00]So I hook up with this guy who's a huge drinker and pot smoker, our very first encounter,
[4:06]he called me after a dance.
[4:07]So this is like 11 o'clock at night and he said, come over right now.
[4:11]If you don't come, Sasha will come and I was like, it's love, it's so terrible.
[4:17]And I just would have done anything.
[4:19]I wanted the attention, I had such a hole in my soul that I thought a boy could fix.
[4:23]And it really did take me until my early 30s to unwind from that.
[4:28]And I grew up in an alcoholic home and I was really deeply touched by the disease of alcoholism.
[4:34]And what that did was I just dove into the relationship and it took all my energy every
[4:39]single bit.
[4:40]I was writing his papers and writing my own papers.
[4:42]And by the time you're doing someone's homework and trying to get someone to stop drinking,
[4:46]you don't have time to go to the mall or hang out with your friends and listen to records
[4:49]like I did before I had a boyfriend.
[4:52]Well, you even say how each group of girlfriends you would make, you then quickly discarded.
[4:58]Like you had trouble once you were really focused in on a new relationship with maintaining
[5:03]even the girls you went to the parade with and the past girls in your life.
[5:09]What does that look like?
[5:10]Do you just stop emailing them?
[5:11]Do you just, are you just like I'm too busy or too distracted?
[5:15]Right.
[5:16]I think there were several mechanisms and one is I think I had this way of always telling
[5:22]myself I was different and I sort of had a mental template that I'm just, I would set
[5:26]myself apart and I didn't understand that I was engineering that.
[5:30]So I had this great group of friends in law school.
[5:33]I mean, you know how it is like you get put into a little study group and it's super
[5:37]intense and it's law school and they were wonderful women and they were all partnered
[5:42]up and I was not.
[5:43]So I always held this idea there better than me.
[5:46]I'm not good enough.
[5:47]I'm so different than them and it was really hard to get close to me because I was,
[5:51]that way of thinking meant that I pushed them away.
[5:53]And so what it looked like is they would say, Christy, we're all going to happy hour.
[5:58]Come with us and I would say, yeah, maybe I'll meet you there and I wouldn't show up.
[6:03]You know, when they would go out and do things, I would come for a little while, but then
[6:07]I would leave without saying goodbye and they'd be like, where did you go?
[6:10]I just did not have very good skills.
[6:13]Just I could have said, hey guys, I'm leaving or happy hours, not my jam.
[6:17]I'll see you at school on Monday.
[6:20]Like I just couldn't be honest.
[6:22]You can't really be, I was not able to be intimate because I was so ashamed that I didn't
[6:26]drink and I was uncomfortable around drinking at the time.
[6:29]And I just had all these secrets and barriers, both mental and physical that it sort of
[6:34]was hard to get close to me.
[6:35]And then the minute something awkward happened, I would just kind of slowly and emotionally
[6:40]back away and it would be like drifting.
[6:42]It wasn't always like violent dust ups.
[6:44]It would just be like, I kind of drifted and didn't let myself fully attach or let anyone
[6:49]attach to me and I got to be in my mid thirties and this was still happening to me.
[6:54]And tell if you don't mind not to just like jump right in here after we're talking
[6:58]short.
[6:59]And tell me about the most traumatic parts of your life, but could you talk about your
[7:03]eating disorder a little bit more from people who don't maybe have the background or know
[7:07]how that affected you on a deeper level, which you read about throughout your work?
[7:11]Yeah.
[7:12]I started, I mean, my eating disorder, the hallmark of my eating disorder was secrecy.
[7:17]I mean, that's the most salient and toxic feature of it.
[7:20]So starting even in, I mean, I remember second grade stealing food.
[7:26]The one, I'm a real good girl.
[7:28]That's sort of my thing, but the one time I got in trouble at schools because I stole
[7:32]some graham crackers and somebody saw me and I got busted.
[7:36]And so that's how big my eating disorder was starting really little.
[7:40]And I was, I was a secret eater binging and then I'm added purging to the mix by the time
[7:45]I was in high school.
[7:47]And that's a huge secret.
[7:48]And if you're carrying a huge secret, I didn't want anyone to know and I was super weird
[7:53]around food.
[7:54]Like I wouldn't eat.
[7:55]We'd go out and I would have like, I'll just have a salad, but I was a bigger girl.
[7:59]It must have seemed obvious to everyone.
[8:01]I was definitely eating more than a salad, but I did it all in secret.
[8:05]And once you have those kinds of secrets, it's very hard to like really let people see
[8:10]you.
[8:11]As a practical matter, I couldn't eat around anyone.
[8:13]It was all secretive.
[8:14]So I was grateful enough when I got to college and the bulimia was picking up the pace.
[8:19]And I was scared at one time I fainted in the shower while I was in the middle of binging
[8:24]and purging and I thought, oh my God, I could die like this.
[8:27]Like I'm like Karen Carpenter, I'm going to die.
[8:31]I got myself into a 12 step recovery program, which certainly helped me arrest my eating.
[8:37]I'm very, very grateful for it, but eating disorders are really, really, really tricky.
[8:42]And half the time, even if my eating was like under control, I deeply hated my body and
[8:48]suffer from body dysmorphia, which is another way to just be different.
[8:52]Like there's something wrong with me and bad bodies grows.
[8:55]I thought my friends were all super beautiful.
[8:57]They knew there was something going on with me and they would try to pump me up.
[9:00]And what was going on in me was so much deeper than your girlfriend saying, you look
[9:06]beautiful.
[9:07]I love your body.
[9:08]Like that wasn't going to touch what was going on inside of me.
[9:11]It's so funny.
[9:12]I mean, that's funny, but not like I know you so well having read two books and like
[9:17]gone to media events and senior parties and done two podcasts and whatever, but like from
[9:22]the book, you would think that you were not so easy to like.
[9:26]Like you're so likable.
[9:27]No, you know.
[9:29]You seem like you would be everybody's good friend.
[9:32]Like you're introspective and have a great writing voice and you're funny and yet you're
[9:38]struggling with friendship.
[9:39]So it's actually almost even better to use you as an example to be like, I may seem
[9:43]like I will be super easy for me, but it isn't.
[9:46]So yeah, that's such a, that's, that's wonderful feedback.
[9:50]Thank you.
[9:51]And I think that it really highlights my internal processes.
[9:56]I think at the end of the day, I'm really scared of people.
[10:00]I'm scared. I don't know why. Nothing so traumatic. I mean, lots of women had eating disorders
[10:05]and they are not like writing books about how they couldn't make friends. I just, when people get
[10:10]close to me, I panic and it's the thing I desperately want the most. And what the real impediment,
[10:16]it's not my body, it's not my boyfriends, it's not my status. What it is, is these internal ways of
[10:22]thinking and being interacting. If I wanted to have close friendships, which I longed for, I was
[10:28]going to have to like peel that back and look at it. And I did it with a buddy, which, in group,
[10:35]if anybody's read it, that's all about, I had a wacky therapist and he went to the Ivy
[10:41]Leagues. It was very hierarchical and I had to pay a lot of money for it. But with the work I did
[10:45]around friendship, I did it with a buddy and we just, we made it up as we went along and we both
[10:52]seemed to get better. And I love giving the message, like, therapy is great. I'm still go. I love it.
[10:57]But also, there's things you can do outside of your insurance plan and office that you and a
[11:03]buddy could do. And I really want people to know that that kind of healing is also available.
[11:08]Well, your relationship with Meredith from the beginning. I loved when she gave you the set of scarves
[11:13]with all the holidays. I was so sweet. Oh my gosh. I'm like, what a nice lady. And you described her
[11:19]so well as like the sort of, I'm as plucked from the 1980s power suit type. Oh,
[11:25]woman, who I could just so visualize when you wrote about how you met her and then how,
[11:31]you know, you weren't even necessarily so close to the beginning. And then it over time, things
[11:35]changed and you ended up becoming hugely, hugely important to each other. And talk about like just
[11:41]the meaning of that friendship. I mean, that's like your whole book. So, I mean,
[11:46]but you know, something about it like, and why write a whole book about it. You know, it's one
[11:51]thing to, you know, appreciate somebody, but why a book? That's a great question. And when I think
[11:57]about Meredith, and I always zoom back to when we met. And just like you said, she was totally,
[12:03]I thought she was a meteorologist. She was sort of dressed. And she had this gold pen on her lapel
[12:08]and she had these little pumps on. And I was this, I hadn't even gone to law school yet. I was
[12:13]working as a secretary and trying to get my boyfriend. And this was like three boyfriends later,
[12:18]still dating drunks. And I was trying to get him sober. And I met her and I didn't see her as a
[12:24]friend because she was 20 years older, which now I'm all four. And I understand friendship comes in
[12:31]all shapes, sizes, and ages. But at the time, I had such narrow immature thinking. I almost
[12:37]have the thinking when I met her. I was 23. And she was like 43, which is not, now that doesn't
[12:44]seem like anything to me. But at the time, I was like, well, we're not in the same grade. Like,
[12:48]you know, I just was like, I'm supposed to be friends who, who are like me. And as we became
[12:53]friends, I realized how by limiting my definition of who could be a friend and what a friend
[12:59]looked like, I had missed a lot of opportunities, of course, along the way. And in terms of writing
[13:05]a book about her, when I started, I knew I was going to write about friendship. I didn't know
[13:10]who was going to become a book, but I knew I wanted to write about it. And my initial book was
[13:15]so bad, Zibi. It was just called the, the jealousy journal. And it was just, it was just me and all
[13:20]the people I was jealous of because I really, really deeply struggle. I could fill a book. I could
[13:26]do 200 pages. And I thought it was going to be like funky and experimental and super revealing.
[13:33]And it was just like it ended up being like a list of people I was really either envious or
[13:37]jealous of. And guess what? Nobody wants that book. And my agent and I went back to sort of the
[13:43]drawing board. And she, she had known about my friends Meredith. And she said, why don't you start
[13:50]at her, the book opens. And I'm at her memorial service. And I'm utilizing her. So I guess that's
[13:55]a spoiler alert, except isn't the first four pages you know that she has passed on. And I, as soon as
[14:01]as my agent and I started having this conversation, I realized she is essentially the spine of the
[14:07]story. She's the one who tapped me on the shoulder. She's the inside. She is the inciting
[14:11]incident, right? And I love that. But you know what, even once my agent suggested that I sat on it for
[14:19]like three months because I thought, well, that was my agent's idea. I didn't come up with it. It
[14:23]doesn't count. Like I was really like, well, I guess I should have thought of that. But then my
[14:29]agent was like, where are these scenes? Where, where is your book? And I was like, I guess I'll,
[14:33]I guess I'll try. And it just took me, I had to back into it. And I think I'd shame about backing
[14:39]into it. Like I thought books were supposed to drop into you and then you write them. And I didn't
[14:43]have that experience. And it took me a while to really attach to this book and that it become deeper
[14:49]in me and deeper on the page. Interesting. What are some of the other books in the idea
[14:54]file that you have? Well, I know, okay, here's another book that nobody wants that I'm writing.
[15:02]Yeah. Listen to this elevator pitch. I want to write a book about what it's like to be living in
[15:08]a hot, like I have teenage children. They're almost teenagers. Their bodies are blossoming.
[15:13]And they're becoming, my body is shutting down. If you know what I'm saying. And then I've got
[15:19]parents who are, are like winding down in this very profound way. And I have moments where I'm
[15:26]like, who's body matters. I mean, ultimately, I think I'm talking about sandwich generation stuff
[15:31]and menopause. I don't know who wants this book, but I'm very interested. Like they're like,
[15:36]they're a moment. I want this like, where are moments where I'm literally like trying to take
[15:42]care of my daughter who and my son who were having their teenage hormone, all the things that
[15:48]happen for them and their bodies. And then I've got like my dad's had some neurological challenges
[15:54]and they're in their 80s. And and then there's my body, which I, it's last on the list. It's
[16:00]like, I'm sure I know your life. You, you probably have this exact same thing. And I'm like,
[16:04]well, when, when does my body? I'm not even talking about my knees. I'm talking about my physical
[16:09]body. When does my body matter? And when should it matter? I don't know the answer to that. So
[16:14]it's going to be a best salary. I cannot wait to read that. I know you're joking about it,
[16:21]but that is exactly what I want to read right now. That is exactly where I am. I have teenage
[16:26]kid. I have the same stuff. So I personally would love to read that book. So yeah, write it.
[16:33]Thank you. Thank you. I'm working on it. And I'm sort of like, I think there's a lot of us. I
[16:36]think there's a lot of us in this situation. And I just kind of want to give voice to it.
[16:42]I haven't even like gone to the dentist. It's embarrassing in how long. And my girlfriend's had to
[16:47]like literally after the pandemic, I didn't go to the doctor for some. Finally, they were like,
[16:53]you have to go get a checkup. And I'm like, I'm fine. Anyway, it turns out I was fine. But you
[16:58]just don't know, you know, I weighed on. And then you had to make sure you took your kids that
[17:03]whole time. Totally kids were all up to date. Oh my gosh, I was holding them up. I would put it,
[17:08]I put like a scale on zoom and weighed them. The little guys for the pediatrician during the
[17:14]pandemic because I wouldn't miss the thing. But yeah, for me, right? And yes, and the parents too.
[17:19]I mean, I think that's great. What do you feel like somebody needs to know about your friendship
[17:25]with Meredith that is like the thing that you can't let go of? Is it the fact that she was older?
[17:31]Is the fact that she was an unlikely friend? Is it how much she ended up helping you with your
[17:35]other relationships? Like, what do you think it really is? Oh, that's such a good question.
[17:40]I think what it is with Meredith. She's my only friend. I have been very blessed. I have not had
[17:48]other friends who have died. And she is my first. And what I realized in the work that we did
[17:54]together is during transitions is where I'm most likely to drop off. Like, we all graduated.
[18:00]Bye. I'll see you never. I didn't know how to like, I had an email address. I didn't know how
[18:05]to stay connected to college friends or graduate school friends or law school friends. I would just
[18:10]like, out of sight, out of mind, I didn't know how to do that. And Meredith is out of sight and
[18:14]out of mind as any friend I've ever had. And I still feel extremely connected to her. I feel her,
[18:22]I feel the reverberations of her in my life every single day. And now you asked earlier,
[18:29]like, why write a book about it? I get to talk about her every single day when I talk about
[18:34]BFF. And at some point you're going to stop talking to me about BFF. And that's fine too. But she
[18:40]lives now out in the world. And she now would give to other people. But the idea, this is the final
[18:46]blow to that false narrative I carried about myself that I can't hold on through transition.
[18:52]Because I'm still holding her quite tightly. And she's quite gone. And that's the part that
[18:57]really just, it still inspires me about the story and still feels so alive to me. Which I did not
[19:06]know, you know, when she was, when she got sick and we knew it was going to be the end,
[19:11]I didn't know she would still be, now it's been three and a half years. I didn't know we would
[19:15]still be so, I mean, it sounds crazy. I still feel very close to her. So I'm that to the part that
[19:21]feels the most, I treasure that the most. I don't think that sounds crazy at all. Thank you.
[19:27]I lost a girlfriend, like how many years ago, 23 years ago, I still talk about her all the time.
[19:33]I don't know. Yes. Essentially writing about loss and people we love. It's like, you know,
[19:39]time travel or yes, wizardry or I don't know. You're like, you're conjuring, right? You're
[19:46]conjuring the spirit. I imagine you have that with bookends when you were Stacy, right?
[19:50]Oh, my gosh. I can't believe yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Like that's like, I felt, I felt the kinship
[19:57]when I read that this summer. I thought, Oh, this.
[20:00]This is Zippy knows this keeping alive
[20:03]and once you put them in a book,
[20:04]that now Stacey and Zippy's friendship
[20:06]belongs to the world.
[20:07]It's a totally extraordinary thing.
[20:11]Maybe Stacey and Meredith are hanging.
[20:13]Happy!
[20:15]I love that.
[20:16]That's a great idea.
[20:17]I'm hanging in that listening to our podcast
[20:19]and they're like, oh, nice to meet you.
[20:21]I wouldn't have met you otherwise.
[20:23]Yeah, exactly.
[20:24]Yeah, look at those girls down there.
[20:25]They're doing awesome.
[20:26]Yeah, exactly.
[20:28]Oh, I love it.
[20:29]So what was it like having group
[20:32]becomes such a huge hit?
[20:35]Oh, my gosh, it was so I think I did.
[20:38]I think I had a ton of denial.
[20:40]Like I kind of didn't fully.
[20:43]I couldn't look at it straight on.
[20:45]And it was, I think part of that was the pandemic.
[20:48]I was just sort of, I would get emails
[20:49]like these things are happening.
[20:51]I mean, obviously I knew they called me
[20:52]and they said Reese is going to put her sticker
[20:55]and I screamed and I like screamed for hours.
[20:58]It seems like and that was just like,
[21:00]I still think to myself like, wow,
[21:04]I can't believe that happened to me.
[21:06]And it was really, it was all good.
[21:09]Literally, it was all good.
[21:11]And I still get emails from people
[21:14]about their relationships with their therapist
[21:16]or looking for a therapist or other parts of the book too.
[21:19]Like I have an eating disorder and I'm in law school
[21:21]and I love those that I always respond,
[21:24]at least I think I do.
[21:25]And I did not know that I would be so connected to readers.
[21:29]I did not know that readers sent emails to authors.
[21:32]Like I've never done that.
[21:33]I'm a huge reader and I didn't know you could do that.
[21:35]So that was so moving and so touching to me.
[21:38]And it was really, it was amazing.
[21:41]I would say that the, there's not a downside to any of this.
[21:46]But when it was time to settle down
[21:47]and get back in my body and work on the next thing,
[21:50]it was super hard because I was like,
[21:52]I'm never gonna be able to top that.
[21:54]I can't, I can't top that.
[21:56]And I had to let go of the idea that I had to top it
[22:00]or I was supposed to and just like it very still
[22:03]and very quiet in my own heart and mind.
[22:06]And see if there was anything I wanted to say
[22:09]and then get to work.
[22:11]You know, I just shut all of that out and get to work.
[22:14]And I was like telling everyone,
[22:16]I love this green baby, even though Reese's sticker
[22:18]isn't on it.
[22:19]Like the book, VF at the book covers green.
[22:21]And I get to love that baby, even though
[22:25]she may not go to all the same places that group went
[22:28]and just make peace with all of that.
[22:30]There was a whole process around that.
[22:32]And I'm glad I did it.
[22:33]Like there's even my heart for both experiences.
[22:35]It's totally different.
[22:36]And it's extraordinary to have a base like group
[22:40]to jump off from.
[22:42]That's just extraordinary.
[22:43]It is extraordinary.
[22:45]I mean, they're both wonderful, really wonderful.
[22:47]Thank you, thank you.
[22:49]I mean, there are so many different parts.
[22:51]It's like, there are so many different parts of all of us
[22:54]that if we were to just slice them all, right?
[22:56]And see how many people relate to this
[22:58]and how many relate to that and what's unique.
[23:00]And, you know, it's just like, like you're in the kitchen.
[23:03]Just be just slice it.
[23:06]Exactly, that's a great way to put it.
[23:08]So what is your advice, especially, you know,
[23:11]on the heels of success, getting back into it.
[23:13]And like, does it feel as overwhelming
[23:16]as when you were trying to do it in the first place?
[23:19]You know, how do you do the work?
[23:21]Like, you said, you know, you're forcing yourself into it.
[23:24]And like, to be fair.
[23:26]Yeah, I think for me, and this won't surprise anybody
[23:29]who knows me or any of my work, like,
[23:31]I really relied on the groups that I'm like, my writing groups.
[23:34]I'm in three or four writing groups now.
[23:36]I just, you know, I leaned on them.
[23:39]Like, I don't think I can do it.
[23:40]I can't do it. I can't do it.
[23:40]I can't do it.
[23:41]And they would say, well, why do you write one scene?
[23:43]What about one scene and send it to us?
[23:46]And I had to break things down
[23:47]into like really tiny chunks, which is probably what I did.
[23:51]I think I just don't remember.
[23:52]Like, when I started, I started group in 2015.
[23:55]And I had to learn the skill beyond the crap.
[24:00]I had to learn the skill of you write a book seen by scene.
[24:04]You don't sit down and write a book.
[24:05]You sit down and you write a scene.
[24:07]And sometimes I would sit down and I'd write a sentence,
[24:09]a topic sentence, if you will.
[24:11]And I think the advice is, get it down to manageable chunks
[24:16]and have people around you.
[24:18]It doesn't have to be a writing group.
[24:20]Just have people around you who is like patting your head,
[24:22]bringing you a snack metaphorically or actually
[24:26]and surround yourself with people who believe in you,
[24:29]who are also doing the work, like being around other people
[24:32]who are working on their books and saying hard things.
[24:35]And you don't ever know.
[24:36]No one knows how the work is going to be received.
[24:39]So being surrounded by other people who are engaging
[24:42]in that vulnerability was really helpful to me.
[24:46]I love that.
[24:47]It's so great.
[24:47]Just write a sentence.
[24:48]Just write a topic sentence.
[24:50]Yeah, so great.
[24:50]Thank you.
[24:51]Yeah, write a noun.
[24:52]Write one noun.
[24:54]It is an noun.
[24:55]Go into the document and write a noun.
[24:56]That's all.
[24:57]Exactly.
[24:58]That's your work for the day.
[24:59]Amazing.
[25:00]I think I could do that today.
[25:01]Maybe.
[25:03]Oh, my gosh.
[25:04]Are you reading anything amazing?
[25:07]Oh, my gosh.
[25:07]Yes, I'm finally reading Daisy Jones in the six,
[25:13]which I'm super excited.
[25:14]I have never read Taylor Jenkins' read.
[25:17]And my daughter's just tearing through all those books.
[25:19]And she's not really a reader.
[25:21]And I'm like, well, I want to see what this is all about.
[25:23]And it's so much fun.
[25:25]I was reading Empire of Pain about the sauclers.
[25:29]And then I went on book tour.
[25:30]And I just could not do anything heavy.
[25:34]And Daisy Jones in the six has been the perfect, joyful
[25:38]distraction.
[25:40]And just a fun read.
[25:42]I think I always put pressure on myself to read.
[25:44]Big, important books that say things about society.
[25:48]And sometimes you just want to read about like a rock
[25:49]and roll love story that is just a total delight.
[25:53]So that's getting me through the night.
[25:55]I love that.
[25:56]And the show is coming in.
[25:57]Yes, I was trying to finish before the show came out.
[25:59]Yes, exactly.
[26:00]I have a deadline.
[26:01]Yeah, exactly.
[26:03]I like reading a deadline, too.
[26:05]It's become my whole life.
[26:06]Yeah, I guess so.
[26:07]I hope you do.
[26:08]Of course, things pleasure into deadlines.
[26:10]So then I know it gets done.
[26:12]Yeah, my therapist says that instead of calling them deadlines,
[26:16]he's like, what if he called it a lifeline?
[26:18]Oh my gosh.
[26:20]A little bit transformative, right?
[26:22]So good.
[26:23]Yeah.
[26:24]Really good.
[26:25]You should read an essay about that.
[26:27]I know I should, because it's really
[26:29]helped me remember what I'm doing this for.
[26:31]And I was a full-time lawyer two and a half years ago.
[26:34]Way and way.
[26:35]I have to read a book by a deadline.
[26:37]No, that's your lifeline to the life
[26:39]that you created this life.
[26:41]That's your lifeline.
[26:42]That's actually been one of the best things
[26:44]he's ever said to me.
[26:45]And he's said a lot of things to me.
[26:47]That's a really good one.
[26:48]Ready for Zippy-Mex?
[26:49]A little fellowship?
[26:50]Great.
[26:50]I'll give it a shot.
[26:51]Oh my gosh.
[26:52]I love that.
[26:53]Ultimately, we create all of our own deadlines anyway.
[26:55]We pick the things for you.
[26:56]Exactly.
[26:57]Yeah, exactly.
[26:58]Oh my gosh.
[26:59]Well, this has been really helpful for me, personally.
[27:01]So thank you for that.
[27:02]Me too.
[27:03]I'm going to get off this call,
[27:05]and I'm going to go make a dentist appointment.
[27:07]I am not kidding you.
[27:08]OK, I'm going to go right in down.
[27:10]OK.
[27:11]Good.
[27:11]Look at that.
[27:12]We're going to get our work done.
[27:14]All right.
[27:15]Thanks, Christy.
[27:16]Thank you for a big good night.
[27:18]You too.
[27:18]Bye.
[27:20]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[27:22]Don't have time to read books.
[27:24]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zippy Owens,
[27:27]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[27:29]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com
[27:32]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:33]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:36]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Beck,
[27:37]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[27:40]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:41]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.