Jenny Jackson, PINEAPPLE STREET: A Novel
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[1:03]Jenny Jackson is the author of Pineapple Street, a novel.
[1:07]Jenny is a vice president and executive editor at Alfred A. Knuff, a graduate of Williams
[1:12]College and the Columbia Publishing course.
[1:15]She lives in Brooklyn Heights with her family.
[1:17]Pineapple Street is her first novel.
[1:19]And I have to say, I simply adore Jenny Jackson.
[1:22]Welcome, Jenny.
[1:23]Thank you so much for coming on momstone her time to read books to discuss Pineapple Street
[1:27]and novel.
[1:28]Congratulations.
[1:29]Thank you.
[1:30]I'm so happy to be here.
[1:31]I've listened to you interview all my favorite writers.
[1:34]And I'm excited.
[1:36]Well, I'm excited because you've sent me so many great authors or they've come out
[1:41]of your creativity lab over there.
[1:43]So it's nice to be on this side of things.
[1:46]OK, so for listeners who do not net, well, first of all, give your background just because
[1:51]I was just referencing you sending authors.
[1:53]So tell everyone if you're whole background as editor and also maybe before we even get
[1:57]into the book, how you even got into that field of working and publishing yourself.
[2:03]Sure.
[2:04]Yeah.
[2:05]So I've been an editor at the Knuff Group for 20 years.
[2:07]I'm a vice president executive editor and I started out by going to the Columbia Publishing
[2:13]course.
[2:14]I knew that I wanted to work in books.
[2:16]I didn't really know anybody who worked in books.
[2:19]I didn't.
[2:20]I had one friend in New York City.
[2:22]And so I moved to New York thinking I might just come for a summer program.
[2:26]And I fell so deeply in love with the city and with publishing.
[2:32]And I just had to stay.
[2:33]So 20 years later, here I am.
[2:35]And I came on as an editorial assistant at vintage.
[2:38]So part of this same group.
[2:40]And I laugh whenever people ask me for my resume, I'm like, yeah, it's one line.
[2:44]I took the job and I stayed for 20 years.
[2:47]But so it's been, it's just, I mean, I've basically done the same job for 20 years,
[2:51]but I've had the enormous fun of publishing a really wide range of books.
[2:57]And that's one of the things that's special about Knuff Double Day Group is I've worked with
[3:02]Cormac McCarthy and Emily St. John Mendel, but also Kevin Quon and Helen Fielding on the
[3:08]Georgia Jones books and J Courtney Sullivan, Catherine Heiney, Helen Ellis, Chris Bajaleon.
[3:14]So a really incredible range, which is just so fun intellectually.
[3:20]Oh my gosh.
[3:21]And some of my favorites in there, so great, the authors that you represent.
[3:24]So awesome.
[3:25]Okay, Pineapple Street, your debut novel, when did this even begin to percolate?
[3:31]What's this novel about first of all?
[3:32]Let's start with, let's go to that.
[3:34]Sure.
[3:34]So it's a family story about women and money that is set in Brooklyn Heights.
[3:41]And I wrote this novel at a really weird time.
[3:44]I started it towards the end of lockdown and I was living on Pineapple Street.
[3:49]And really, my neighborhood had become my whole world because our office was shut down.
[3:56]And I wasn't ever taking the subway anywhere and we weren't seeing people.
[4:01]So I was just walking around the neighborhood basically talking to myself.
[4:05]And so the novel grew out of knee daydreaming very much in Brooklyn Heights.
[4:12]And we had spent the first couple months of the pandemic with my in-laws in Connecticut,
[4:18]which was amazing and also really weird because, you know, when did you last live with
[4:24]another family and especially as an adult, you know, and my husband and I've been together
[4:30]for 17 years, but I love his family, but it's not my family.
[4:33]And so I was thinking a lot about in-laws and family dynamics.
[4:39]And then thinking a lot when I was home about Brooklyn Heights.
[4:43]And then I read this article in The New York Times called the rich kids who want to tear
[4:48]down capitalism about millennials who reject the notion of inherited wealth.
[4:55]And it just all these ideas clicked together for me.
[4:58]And it turned into this novel about a family in Brooklyn Heights where the youngest sibling
[5:05]decides that she needs to give away all of her money.
[5:09]And obviously people in the family think that that's a pretty wild idea.
[5:14]And the other sister, also we find out, you know, that has different relationships to
[5:19]money and makes different decisions along the way in her life as well.
[5:23]I mean, they all have, they are all in their own ways dealing with this.
[5:27]And I feel like your book in general, and I was trying to take away what is Jenny trying
[5:32]to say about wealth, like what is your thesis on the whole thing?
[5:37]Like, is it ridiculous for people with inherited wealth to try to give it all the way?
[5:41]Or is that what everyone should be doing?
[5:43]Or do you have no view and you're just poking fun?
[5:46]Like, how do you feel, how do you feel better?
[5:48]How is the reader meant to feel at the end?
[5:50]You know, obviously you asked me the hardest question of all right off the bat.
[5:53]Sorry.
[5:54]I think that, you know, I would say my thesis is that in this world, we're all trying
[6:01]to be good.
[6:02]And that is our greatest sort of struggle, all of us every single day.
[6:07]And what being good looks like is different for everyone, you know?
[6:11]And I mean, I think I have often been blown away because there are people who are, you
[6:17]know, celebrated in society for all of their amazing good deeds and, you know, generosity
[6:25]towards causes.
[6:26]And then you meet them and there may be not the nicest people.
[6:30]On the other hand, I had the chance to meet this guy once who runs a very large company
[6:36]that makes missiles and instruments of war and he was just a really charming, nice person.
[6:41]And I've struggled for a long time with how you, how those two things can coexist and
[6:47]how nobody is actually altogether good or altogether bad.
[6:51]And so my thesis in this is that we're all trying to do our best and money is an interesting
[6:57]vehicle to do good.
[7:00]And so I wanted to kind of examine how people who have money as a resource think about
[7:05]being good.
[7:06]So interesting.
[7:08]I mean, the inherited notion, especially sort of this very Waspy family, right?
[7:13]Like they've had money sort of trickle down and there's not as much as there was.
[7:17]And yet, you know, it's not like there's new, like I'm struggling to explain, but
[7:23]they're all money.
[7:24]Yeah.
[7:25]But old money and what does that mean to their identity now and how does it inform what
[7:30]they should do to be good, right?
[7:32]I mean, yeah, all the different kids take a new path and yet they make decisions.
[7:38]They are lucky enough to be able to make the decisions that they want to make all three
[7:41]of them really.
[7:43]And there are so many things that you describe and with the parents that are so sort of
[7:49]funny and societal and of that time, even like, you know, the mother bringing her own food
[7:54]to the dinner party.
[7:55]It's just such a perfect.
[7:56]They are like when she finds out something so horrible that's happened to one of her daughters
[8:00]just being like, okay, tennis at six, you know, yes.
[8:03]So it's also the customs of that old money that I feel like you take apart.
[8:07]Like it's almost just societal, like wealth is the one bucket, but it's also these societal
[8:11]things.
[8:12]Yeah.
[8:13]Almost in the way that Kevin Kwan, your author, like really looks at society and sort
[8:17]of finds the humor and finds the things that maybe they don't notice about themselves.
[8:22]There's something about this that reminds me of that and it just in that way totally
[8:26]different worlds, of course, but I love that.
[8:29]I love that.
[8:30]I mean, I think you only need, you know, to look around to realize that we're in this
[8:34]moment of extreme social upheaval.
[8:37]But I also, I think I love thinking about micro generations and how our attitudes towards
[8:43]everything.
[8:44]Money included are really based on our birth year in some ways, you know.
[8:49]So I'm 43.
[8:50]I'm what we call a geriatric millennial.
[8:53]I was sort of born on the cusp of being a millennial and being gen X.
[8:56]And my attitudes towards money are really different than the attitudes of people who are
[9:02]now in their 20s.
[9:03]I spent a lot of time over the pandemic with my assistant who is in her early 20s and who
[9:10]is an incredibly smart, amazing person.
[9:13]And we have really different attitudes about money.
[9:15]I think I grew up sort of thinking like with that attitude that, you know, you do the
[9:20]best you can and make the most money you can and you enjoy the fruits of your labor.
[9:25]And she is a lot more socially minded than I was in my early 20s.
[9:30]So I think that for families now, the children who, you know, adult children have a very
[9:35]different relationship with money than their parents did.
[9:37]And so that's what I really enjoyed poking at in this novel.
[9:41]So Darlie, the oldest sister, her relationship with money really is related to her marriage
[9:46]because Darlie kind of was unable to ask her husband to sign up for you now, but she's
[9:51]given up access to her trust fund.
[9:53]And she just kind of felt like, you know, I was given a great education.
[9:57]I married someone with a great education between the two.
[10:00]of us, we should be able to look after ourselves.
[10:02]Then she stops working when she has her second child.
[10:06]And when her husband gets fired,
[10:08]things get more complicated.
[10:10]Her storyline, I think, was one that I felt very close
[10:13]to my best friend from college,
[10:15]stopped working when she had kids
[10:17]and has spent a lot of time grappling with finding
[10:21]her intellectual life meaning without a job.
[10:25]And so that's something she and I've spent
[10:27]an incredible amount of time talking about
[10:30]whereas I think her mother probably didn't have
[10:34]that same struggle because raising children was her job.
[10:39]And I think that women are age feel like,
[10:42]I mean, Zibi, I'm sure you've thought a lot about this
[10:44]then being a mom is a lot.
[10:47]And it is a full-time job,
[10:48]but we also feel a lot of pressure to also work
[10:50]and also have a lot else going on.
[10:51]And it puts this character in an awkward position.
[10:54]And then it's added to by the fact
[10:57]that she has really built a life
[10:59]around having a lot of money and her access
[11:01]to it is drawing up.
[11:03]I have to say, I mean, I'm just finishing
[11:05]Marianne Nessels memoir.
[11:07]She's like the famous sort of food politics person.
[11:10]And she's in her, I think, 70s or 80s now.
[11:13]Anyway, she was saying these issues were there for her.
[11:17]She was going through all the same issues.
[11:19]She was a scientist and she got a PhD and all this stuff,
[11:21]but she was writing, not that this is related to your book,
[11:24]but just to this conversation.
[11:25]Like back then there were still those same things
[11:28]only there weren't as many outlets.
[11:29]Like you could feel just as much drive
[11:32]to want to get out and do something,
[11:34]but there weren't even the places to go.
[11:36]I mean, I know we all know this.
[11:37]Even Jessica Gross, too, in her book wrote about how
[11:39]even hundreds of years ago, the moms would be like,
[11:41]I can't believe my husband's like, off at war,
[11:43]and I have to be here nursing, you know?
[11:45]Yes, it's one of those things that is constantly wrestled
[11:50]with and I feel like there's never a good answer.
[11:52]But yes, Darlene, right in the middle of it.
[11:54]Yeah, and then the second character Sasha has also
[12:00]a different relationship with money that's wrapped up
[12:01]in her relationship with her husband
[12:03]because Darlene is a middle class girl,
[12:05]who marries into this family.
[12:07]And, you know, I think it is such a classic genre,
[12:11]the fish out of water, you know?
[12:12]And I've just had so much fun writing about this family
[12:17]through the point of view of someone who would think
[12:20]it was perfectly fine to drink bubbly water out of a can
[12:23]and her mother-in-law is like, absolutely just beside herself
[12:27]that someone would do such a thing.
[12:28]I mean, well, like, her family is, you know,
[12:32]drinking, throwing beers off a ledge or doing whatever in the
[12:35]harbor and like, the way you painted them.
[12:37]You also have this other subplot, which I won't give away
[12:41]because it comes later, but with, you know, secrets and loss
[12:44]and all these extra feelings that are so intense
[12:48]and how does a family that's used to not really dealing
[12:51]with feeling so much handle it when someone has the intensity
[12:55]of feeling and so much that she can't even like tell,
[12:58]she doesn't even want to tell anybody about it.
[13:00]And like, how does the permission to share across
[13:04]different families really affect everyone in that whole ecosystem?
[13:08]Yeah, I think that, you know,
[13:10]lost culture is an interesting place to start
[13:14]when we talk about repression or, you know,
[13:17]not wanting to talk about problems,
[13:20]but I mean, I think it really spans a lot of different cultures
[13:24]that were, you know, told to put on a stiff upper lip
[13:28]or put on a happy face.
[13:29]And then also the fact that this character has done something
[13:32]she's ashamed of makes it really hard for her
[13:35]to confess to her family what she's done.
[13:37]And she experiences panic attacks and starts, you know,
[13:42]deals with it in, in the way a lot of people do,
[13:45]but, you know, a way that's kind of unhealthy.
[13:47]And I really wanted to talk about,
[13:49]about panic attacks and about anxiety
[13:52]and about mental illness just because it's,
[13:55]it's absolutely kind of more widespread than ever.
[14:00]And also I think, you know, we're, we're all just accustomed
[14:05]to kind of trying to power through
[14:07]when we're having a hard time in the past couple of years
[14:10]and it's been really hard for a lot of people.
[14:12]Yeah, very true.
[14:14]So when you went through the actual writing of this,
[14:16]armed with all of your editorial skills,
[14:18]did you feel like as soon as you started a sentence
[14:21]or a paragraph or a section,
[14:22]you were like already editing it in your head,
[14:25]like how did it manifest itself with your own words?
[14:29]You know, it was interesting.
[14:30]I didn't edit a ton as I went,
[14:33]but I reread a lot whenever I stopped
[14:36]and needed to start up again.
[14:38]I felt like whenever I sat down at my computer,
[14:42]I had to reread, you know, the previous chapter
[14:45]because it was like, it was like,
[14:47]I mean, it was getting back into the flow, you know?
[14:50]And it, and it really helped me kind of orient myself
[14:53]and get back into that head space.
[14:55]I've heard, I just, I know that it's so hard
[14:58]for people to stop tinkering and just let it flow.
[15:01]And I've even heard amazing tips for it.
[15:04]Like I think Jojo Moise was the one who said
[15:06]that she would sometimes turn her font white
[15:08]so she couldn't see what she'd written
[15:10]so that she would just keep going.
[15:12]And I love that.
[15:13]So I didn't get to that point, but I really,
[15:15]and I slapped my hands away and didn't let myself revise
[15:18]as much as I went.
[15:19]I just let it go.
[15:21]And interestingly, you know, this book is three storylines.
[15:24]It's three point of view.
[15:25]And I wrote them separately for a while.
[15:27]And then when I was probably halfway through,
[15:30]I snapped them together and started writing up ABC,
[15:35]and the first edit that my editors gave me was,
[15:39]you know, in the second half of the book,
[15:40]the chapters really talked to each other.
[15:42]But in the first half, you need to knit those together
[15:44]better.
[15:45]And I was like, oh my God, I am so busted.
[15:46]Cause that was, that was the flaw in my process.
[15:50]You know, it was how I needed to write it,
[15:52]but that was something I had to go back
[15:53]and really work through because the chapters
[15:55]weren't talking to each other at first.
[15:58]Oh my gosh.
[15:59]It is so funny.
[15:59]A good editor can spot your week, your Achilles heel
[16:03]so easily.
[16:04]And it's like, I thought maybe I would be beyond that,
[16:06]but God, no, how did you decide like where to publish?
[16:13]You know, it was a little bit scary,
[16:14]but I just decided to let my agent go out wide
[16:18]and send it around town.
[16:19]And I thought in some ways it's,
[16:22]I feel really vulnerable because since I've been
[16:24]an editor for 20 years, I know all these people
[16:26]and they're my friends.
[16:27]And inevitably, a lot of people are gonna pass on it,
[16:31]but hopefully more are gonna want it.
[16:33]And I just thought that I kind of,
[16:37]I wanted to have the real experience.
[16:39]You know, I didn't want to play it safe
[16:40]and send it exclusively to one person
[16:42]and, you know, keep it a secret.
[16:44]I sort of thought, you know, I feel proud of it.
[16:46]And I like it.
[16:48]And if I were an editor, I would bid on it.
[16:50]And so I feel certain that somebody else will.
[16:52]And so let's just let the chips fall where they may.
[16:55]And so Brettany sent it out
[16:57]and we had a bunch of calls scheduled.
[16:58]And then Pam Dorman and I had a conversation
[17:01]and our editorial connection.
[17:03]I mean, it's, it's, you know that thing
[17:06]when it's like you walk into a house
[17:07]and you know if you're supposed to buy it or not,
[17:09]it really was like that with Pam.
[17:11]I was like, well, I'm just kind of,
[17:14]I just need to be with her.
[17:15]I don't really even need to finish having conversations.
[17:17]And so Pam made an offer and I said,
[17:20]let's just do it.
[17:21]This is who I want to be with.
[17:22]It really was a meeting of the minds.
[17:25]Wow.
[17:25]And did you consider publishing it enough?
[17:27]Or you didn't even send it?
[17:29]No.
[17:30]I would, no, I didn't send to anyone at enough double day
[17:32]because imagine how awkward that would be.
[17:34]I didn't like sitting in the marketing meeting
[17:37]hearing how much money they were gonna spend.
[17:39]I couldn't do it.
[17:40]I know.
[17:41]I was just, I know that's what I know.
[17:46]Or imagine if they felt they had to bid
[17:47]to be polite.
[17:48]That would be so awful.
[17:50]I know.
[17:50]I know.
[17:51]I know.
[17:54]You're like, well, maybe go up a little.
[17:56]I don't know.
[17:56]Right, totally.
[17:58]We're going to look at your P&L.
[17:59]We can just adjust the price here.
[18:01]Yeah, totally.
[18:02]We'll sell more copies in that.
[18:03]I don't know what you're thinking.
[18:06]So armed with all this knowledge for the book to come out,
[18:10]is there anything that you've learned from all the authors?
[18:13]And I'm sure there's a bazillion things you've learned,
[18:15]but that you're really taking to heart,
[18:17]even in terms of marketing or publicity
[18:20]or what you want to have happen during your book journey,
[18:23]like what's going to make the experience satisfying for you?
[18:27]Oh, I love this question.
[18:28]And you know, the thing is, is like, even moving back in time,
[18:32]I'm so happy that I wrote a book and decided to publish it
[18:36]because I know it's made me a better editor.
[18:38]And I know I will be a better champion,
[18:42]but also a better line editor for having done this.
[18:45]I understand structure in a better way.
[18:47]I also understand something that I can't believe it
[18:51]took me so long to figure out.
[18:52]But I have certain writers who are reluctant advisors,
[18:55]and they don't want, oh, they fight me too thin nail.
[18:59]I say, hey, this needs to be 20,000 words longer.
[19:03]And they say, how about five?
[19:04]And I say, how about 15?
[19:05]And we settle in.
[19:06]It's like, I really, and I used to kind of think like,
[19:09]oh gosh, they just don't feel like doing it.
[19:12]That's not it.
[19:13]It's that when you're writing, you're in this creative zone.
[19:17]And when you're not writing, it's really hard to get back in there.
[19:21]And these writers are just struggling to get back in.
[19:24]It's like, it's not about will.
[19:29]It's about that creative thing.
[19:32]So I think I've already learned so much sort of from being
[19:36]an editor, but in terms of moving forward
[19:37]on the publication and what I've learned from watching
[19:40]my writers, number one is like, I have no desire
[19:43]to read bad Amazon or Goodreads reviews.
[19:46]Like, that's just not going to happen.
[19:48]I'm confess that I have read a few Goodreads reviews,
[19:50]but I did it like a total narcissist.
[19:52]I went in and I filtered to five star reviews.
[19:55]And I read a few of those and then I shut it down.
[19:58]Is that crazy?
[19:59]I know.
[20:00]Perfect, that's what everyone should do.
[20:01]You're absolutely.
[20:02]Yes, and I'm just never,
[20:03]I'm just not gonna scroll down on Amazon,
[20:05]because of course, inevitably,
[20:07]someone tags you in a nice review on Instagram,
[20:09]but then you see below it,
[20:10]someone wrote like,
[20:11]oh, didn't finish, couldn't get into it.
[20:13]And then you spend two hours being like,
[20:15]couldn't get into it.
[20:16]Why not?
[20:17]And then like, that is the path of madness.
[20:19]We don't need to do that, you know?
[20:21]So that's a lesson that I like tell my writers not to do it,
[20:24]but I'm actually really not going to do it.
[20:26]And then I think also, I'm just right now
[20:28]in the say yes to everything mode.
[20:30]This is such a ride.
[20:31]You only get one chance in your whole life
[20:34]to publish your first book and whether or not,
[20:36]you know, I ever even published the second one.
[20:38]I'm so aware of how special this moment is,
[20:42]and I'm enjoying every second of it,
[20:45]because it's brief and it's exciting and it's fun.
[20:47]And I'm just kind of soaking it all in.
[20:50]That's awesome, I love that.
[20:53]I feel like sometimes like the perspective of this age
[20:57]or whatever, I'm a little older than you,
[20:58]but like the knowledge that these things are so temporary.
[21:02]I don't know.
[21:03]I feel like back when I like got married the first time,
[21:05]where you know, like big things would happen before,
[21:07]and it was all about like,
[21:09]preparation, you know, the stress and the event,
[21:10]and now it can be just like,
[21:11]no, like the whole thing is the fun part.
[21:13]Like the whole thing is before and after.
[21:16]Yeah.
[21:17]And I also think like publishing your first novel
[21:20]in your 40s rather than in your 20s is awesome,
[21:24]because I actually know that this was the best book
[21:27]I could write, and I feel really proud of it.
[21:30]And I feel like it's a better book
[21:32]than I would have been able to write
[21:33]when I was in my 20s.
[21:35]And I also have this really, I honestly know
[21:37]that not everyone will ever love anything.
[21:40]And that's okay, because my goal is to make people who love it,
[21:45]have a really fun time reading it,
[21:48]get something out of it, have amazing conversations
[21:50]with their friends, think hard about their relationship
[21:54]with their spouse with money,
[21:55]you know, like really enjoy it.
[21:57]And for the people who don't, that's okay too, you know?
[21:59]And I think that like being able to have that attitude
[22:02]about your work, that you're excited for the fans
[22:05]to embrace it, and that's all that matters.
[22:06]You're excited for readers to get something out of it.
[22:09]That's, I mean, it's a healthier attitude
[22:11]than I'm probably what I've had as a younger person.
[22:13]Yeah.
[22:14]Well, it's really great.
[22:16]I really enjoyed it.
[22:17]Your sense of humor is so great.
[22:19]Just your wit and how you look at things
[22:21]as like the societal recorder of sorts.
[22:23]Like it's just so funny.
[22:25]And even when you say things, like,
[22:27]there was some line about having kids,
[22:29]like somehow she got pregnant.
[22:30]And you're like, well, it was the regular way,
[22:32]but isn't it always just like a shock
[22:34]when that happens?
[22:35]Just like, you know, they did so many lines
[22:38]where I'm like, oh, I totally said that.
[22:39]Like, some, you know, just, you know,
[22:42]Kevin Kwan is such an inspiration for me,
[22:45]but one of the reasons I've inspired by him
[22:46]is Kevin told me that he kept a post-it note
[22:49]over his desk with the word joy written on it.
[22:52]And he wanted to remind himself as he wrote
[22:54]that that was his goal was to make his reader feel joy.
[22:57]And so I did the same thing because I was writing it
[23:00]in the back half of 2020 and the front half of 2021.
[23:03]And I just desperately wanted to feel joy
[23:05]and I wanted to make other people feel joy.
[23:07]So that was, that was the goal.
[23:09]And I learned that from Kevin.
[23:10]Well, amazing.
[23:12]Well, now the both of you have brought me joy.
[23:13]So that's great, you know, double whammy here.
[23:16]Thank you.
[23:17]So you're not gonna write anything else, you're not sure.
[23:19]Are you?
[23:19]Oh, I would really, really like to.
[23:21]I would really like to.
[23:22]And I think, gosh, once you've gotten the bug
[23:25]for how fun it is, like when you are writing a great scene
[23:29]and you finish it and you immediately want
[23:31]to like call your husband in and read it out loud to him
[23:34]even though he's like, actually really probably not
[23:36]a food and trying to do nine other things.
[23:38]Like that is so fun when you bake something
[23:40]and you're like, God, this is so good, you know.
[23:44]So once you've tasted it, I know it's kind of irresistible.
[23:47]So I'm probably gonna try again
[23:48]because I just want that feeling again.
[23:50]That's awesome.
[23:51]It is addictive, addicting, addicting, yes, totally.
[23:56]Okay, now that you're at this stage,
[23:58]what advice would you give to aspiring authors?
[24:01]Oh, you know, I think the advice is that the right book
[24:07]will come to you and when it's easy, it's easy
[24:11]and when it's hard, it's hard and it's okay
[24:13]for it sometimes to feel awful
[24:15]and every book tries to kill itself at least once
[24:18]and you need to just stick with it
[24:20]because inevitably there are gonna be parts
[24:23]that are so much fun to write
[24:24]and inevitably there are gonna be parts of it
[24:26]that are so hard to write and you're gonna think,
[24:29]I can't believe I'm even trying to write this
[24:31]and I should give up and I should try something else.
[24:33]Don't, every book feels that way sometimes.
[24:36]That is excellent advice.
[24:37]Jenny, thank you so much.
[24:39]This has been so much fun.
[24:40]Thank you for the buck.
[24:41]It was delicious, seriously, just like totally delicious.
[24:44]And like I savored it, like a great fun meal
[24:47]that I felt a little bad about.
[24:49]Like I mean, it's a world to play so bad.
[24:52]It's so great.
[24:53]Anyway, so thanks for coming on.
[24:55]And good luck, I'm so excited to watch you
[24:57]just soar with the publication.
[24:59]Thank you.
[25:00]Bye.
[25:01]Have a great day.
[25:01]Bye.
[25:02]Have a great day.
[25:03]Bye.
[25:05]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms,
[25:07]Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:08]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:11]at Zebioans and at Moms,
[25:12]Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:14]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[25:16]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:18]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:20]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[25:22]in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[25:24]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:26]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.