Elizabeth Lyons, WRITE THE DAMN BOOK ALREADY: Tell Your Story. Share Your Message. Make Your Impact.
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Elizabeth Lyons is the author of Write the Damn Book Already.
[1:06]Tell your story, share your message, make your impact.
[1:09]Elizabeth is a six-time author, book writing coach, and founder of Finn Phyllis Press.
[1:14]She's passionate about helping aspiring authors untangle themselves so they can stop
[1:18]procrastinating and get on with writing, publishing, and launching a powerful book.
[1:23]A mom of five, and yes, we talked about this.
[1:25]She is obsessed with decaf coffee.
[1:27]It says decaf.
[1:28]Elizabeth.
[1:29]Oh my gosh.
[1:30]How many books have you ever written?
[1:31]We're obsessed with regular coffee.
[1:33]But anyway, I should have talked to you about that.
[1:34]But I didn't.
[1:35]Anyway, she is obsessed with decaf coffee, gluten-free cupcakes, and is consistently remodeling
[1:40]her already perfectly fine house.
[1:42]She lives in Arizona, with whichever of her five kids happen to be home at any given
[1:46]point in time.
[1:47]Welcome, Elizabeth.
[1:48]Thank you so much for coming on.
[1:49]Mom, don't have time to read books.
[1:51]To discuss Write the Damn Book Already.
[1:53]Tell your story, share your message, make your impact.
[1:57]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:59]Thanks for coming on.
[2:00]And for blorbing it.
[2:01]Who is this amazing, wonderful, love person?
[2:05]I know there was this really cute and just so kind person that I somehow managed to wrangle
[2:13]into blorbing this.
[2:14]Oh my gosh.
[2:15]Well, this person, otherwise known as me, said Elizabeth's approachable, engaging, and encouraging
[2:22]voice is exactly what aspiring authors need.
[2:25]I'll be recommending this book everywhere.
[2:27]And look, here I am.
[2:29]Everywhere, sweet.
[2:32]Thank you.
[2:33]Where our voices are today, which farce stereos, earpods, whose kitchen, here we are.
[2:42]So come on, who you are and whatever.
[2:47]Okay, why did you write this book?
[2:50]Tell us.
[2:51]Why should we write the damn book when there are so many books out there?
[2:55]Great question, because three years ago, it was maybe three, maybe four.
[3:00]I don't know.
[3:01]It was suggested that I write this book.
[3:02]And I was like, I would rather die like, no, I'm not going to write a book on how to write
[3:07]a book.
[3:08]I mean, first of all, there are so many books out there on how to write books.
[3:11]And there are a lot of really, really good ones, right?
[3:13]And so I just didn't feel like I had anything really unique to say when it came to
[3:17]the process.
[3:18]And then fast forward, I think probably while I was coaching one day, I recognized
[3:24]what I absolutely love the most about writing books.
[3:30]And that is the, for lack of a better explanation, the growth that happens within people
[3:36]while they're writing books.
[3:38]And the thing that stops people from writing books are just all those objections, all those,
[3:44]but what if this, but what if that, you know, what if someone gets mad at me, but I'm
[3:49]not a writer, I'm not an expert, I don't have a huge platform this, that or the other
[3:53]thing.
[3:54]And they're all the same.
[3:56]I just heard, I hear them, I heard them over and over again, and not only that, but
[4:00]I've said them, you know, and I say them every time I've written six books now and every
[4:05]time people say, well, it must get easier.
[4:07]For me anyway, no, you know, with every, with every new book, it's like, oh, God, there
[4:15]we go, we go, we go.
[4:18]So the conversations I love the most, and, but so what is it for you that keeps drawing
[4:23]you back, even if it's hard, even it, despite every obstacle, why, why a seventh, why
[4:31]an eighth, why a nine, right, right, even, and even though after the fifth, I said never
[4:35]again, I think for me, this is my chosen form of, I guess, expression, and I think everybody
[4:44]has one, I mean, not everyone considers themselves a creative, but we all have thoughts
[4:50]and experiences and opinions, and I think it's part of the human condition that we all
[4:56]just, we want to be seen, and we want to feel like what we've experienced matters, and
[5:04]that we're adding value to other people's lives.
[5:08]And so, you know, even like right now, I'm working on fiction, which I've not yet done,
[5:13]and so that's a completely different thing.
[5:14]Why do I, why do I want to write that?
[5:18]Because I'm writing the stories that I feel like are playing out in my actual life.
[5:22]Oh, so they're going to play out somewhere.
[5:26]Oh, wait, give us a little more.
[5:28]What kind are we talking about?
[5:29]Oh, God.
[5:30]Let's have stories.
[5:31]Are we relationship, career, what are the buckets?
[5:34]I think, you know what?
[5:35]I think all of it.
[5:36]I think I'm kind of in a weird position right now where I'm trying to merge a couple of
[5:42]different stories together, or decide if they're all one story.
[5:45]So I had started at the beginning, I just turned 50.
[5:49]And so I started a book, right, woo, here we are.
[5:52]I started a book called The 51st Year, because, you know, I feel like it's this interesting
[5:58]shift, and it's this space between that many women experience where like 50 for me, this
[6:05]is not what I thought it would look like, which is not good or bad.
[6:09]It's just that when I was 20 or 30, and I imagine 50, you know, I'm not in a relate.
[6:16]I don't have a partner.
[6:17]I have five kids.
[6:18]They're all off doing their thing.
[6:20]The youngest is almost 15.
[6:21]So it's kind of like, I'm not lamenting being a mom, but I am kind of, you know, sometimes
[6:27]I just sit on the couch like, what are we doing here?
[6:30]Where is this all going?
[6:33]So I think there are just certain aspects of life.
[6:36]I think about my what if year, which I cannot wait to get my hands on, Alicia, right?
[6:41]And I identified with that so much because how many of us think, well, what if I had pursued
[6:49]this relationship, this career, what if I had stuck with this entrepreneurial venture
[6:56]that I started however many years ago and gave up after 2.7 weeks because I didn't yet
[7:01]have a customer.
[7:02]That's me speaking.
[7:03]And the number of things I've given up on because they didn't work in seven minutes is
[7:07]the list is long.
[7:09]And so to think about that and kind of, but then let it actually play out by writing
[7:15]this story is interesting for me.
[7:18]It makes me feel I guess a little bit like I didn't miss it because I believe that whatever
[7:23]is meant for you will never miss you.
[7:26]It just might show up in a different way than you expect and not necessarily on the timeline
[7:31]that you picked.
[7:32]Oh, God, almost never almost never, yeah, particularly when it comes to writing and publishing
[7:38]books.
[7:39]The gods are involved.
[7:40]I mean, no, I don't mean religiously, but you know what I mean?
[7:43]Well, maybe you're sometime I don't know.
[7:48]Okay, so first you start off talking about the process and you counter so many objections,
[7:56]but so many people have already covered this topic, but now just isn't the best time.
[8:00]So you sort of take us through all of the self talk, all the negative self talk and give
[8:04]us alternative narratives so that we don't talk ourselves out of doing this project to begin
[8:09]with.
[8:10]What's the most, what are some, what's the most common one and like what's your response?
[8:14]Take like, but what if it's not good or something like that?
[8:16]Oh, God.
[8:17]So what if it's not good is always everyone.
[8:21]And the thing that I don't think, there are many things I don't think people realize,
[8:25]but one of them is that every single author, even the New York Times number one best
[8:29]selling ones over and over again, have many of these same thoughts.
[8:34]They sit, you know, even if they've written a best salary, even if they've sold a million
[8:37]books, they start the next one and go, what if this isn't good?
[8:41]Because none of us knows how well something is going to be received until it is or isn't.
[8:47]So we can sit here all day and pump ourselves up and say, this is going to be the next,
[8:51]my, what if year, this is going to be the next book ends.
[8:54]This is going to be the next fill in the blank and it either will or it won't.
[8:58]I mean, it will, it actually never will because there can only be one of each, you're
[9:02]not looking to replicate anything, but more often than not, people don't say, I don't
[9:08]hear people say, oh my gosh, this is going to be the next Harry Potter.
[9:11]They say it's like, what, you know, like I'm going to shrink into this because what
[9:17]if nobody likes it or what if I make somebody mad, another one I hear all the time, of
[9:22]course.
[9:23]And it's true with books.
[9:24]It's true with businesses is this is just not the right time.
[9:27]It's true with having children.
[9:28]It's everything.
[9:29]Yeah, this is just not the right time.
[9:32]And it's not so much that what I think that what's interesting for people is to be able
[9:37]to see that they're having those thoughts and how absurd they are because we all know
[9:43]that they're absurd.
[9:45]I mean, you know, if I spent an hour last night watching Real Housewives and I may or may
[9:49]not have done that, then I can spend 20 minutes working on a book, which is another
[9:54]objection.
[9:55]Well, it's very different.
[9:56]That's, those are very different.
[9:58]It's not about the time.
[9:59]I mean, what?
[10:00]And it's completely passive.
[10:01]And one is completely immersive and active.
[10:03]One takes literally your entire body and mind and soul,
[10:06]and the other takes maybe a sliver of your mind, maybe.
[10:11]You're absolutely, no, your abs, maybe, maybe,
[10:14]I mean, not to knock entertainment.
[10:17]Like we need that relaxation.
[10:20]But I feel like that is in the relaxation bucket,
[10:23]the recharge, relax, watch TV,
[10:25]where you don't have to think too hard,
[10:26]you can just enjoy yourself.
[10:28]So that you can go back and conjure up scenes
[10:31]and then transcribe them and make people up in your brain
[10:35]and somehow recreate them on paper
[10:37]to end up in somebody else's brain.
[10:39]At 100%, and I think that that's the thing
[10:42]that we resist is like another thing I hear a lot is,
[10:46]but what if I put my whole mind, body, and soul into it,
[10:49]and then it's a waste of time,
[10:51]because it doesn't go anywhere,
[10:52]or no one reads it, or no one likes it.
[10:55]And so there's this, it can be easy to talk yourself
[10:58]into, well, if I'm gonna waste my time,
[11:00]I'd rather waste it sitting in front of Netflix,
[11:03]and then that's some people, not everyone,
[11:07]but that's some of what I hear.
[11:10]Yeah, I mean, I understand that.
[11:12]I remember having my first manuscript totally
[11:15]get rejected and I remember thinking, oh my gosh,
[11:18]I wasted a gear of my life full time wasted,
[11:23]but now 20 years later,
[11:25]I see it was not always did,
[11:26]and it was a step on the process to getting there, right?
[11:29]So you have to go through it.
[11:30]So I don't know, maybe there has to be a joke,
[11:36]your first novel, like the biggest time ways there is.
[11:40]I mean, like marking it differently,
[11:42]your first novel will probably not sell,
[11:44]and yet you'll have to dedicate your whole life to it.
[11:46]Your whole life, right, exactly.
[11:48]And are you willing to do that?
[11:49]Yes, yeah, clarify your why.
[11:52]Let's talk about that.
[11:53]Okay.
[11:54]So yeah, there are two things I talk about
[11:57]in the book that are related,
[11:58]but slightly different.
[12:00]Your why and your intention.
[12:01]So we hear this all the time,
[12:03]like what is your why?
[12:04]What is your why?
[12:04]And we hear about it so much that I think that a lot of people,
[12:07]myself included at one point,
[12:08]didn't even, it was very esoteric.
[12:10]It was like, what do you mean?
[12:12]But we have, it's very helpful.
[12:15]I mean, I believe it's also very important,
[12:17]but to get clear about why you want to write this book now,
[12:20]and why, why me, why this is happening?
[12:23]Especially because people like me
[12:24]will come around and ask you this exact question.
[12:26]Yes, yes, yes.
[12:28]I mean, you know, there's something to be said
[12:30]for writing a book proposal,
[12:32]even if you're not gonna pitch it to an agent
[12:35]because, you know, or query an agent,
[12:37]because it forces you to get clear
[12:41]about why are you the person to write this book?
[12:44]What's your, what's my unique angle?
[12:46]What is, what am I gonna say differently?
[12:49]How is the book gonna stand out
[12:51]from the thousands of others that are already written
[12:54]about the exact same topic?
[12:55]And so I don't, I know that the word
[12:58]in the industry is competition,
[13:00]but I almost think of it more like,
[13:02]why would someone buy my book and that other book?
[13:04]Not my book or that other book,
[13:06]but why would they buy them both?
[13:09]How do they, how does my book complement what's already there?
[13:12]But also add something in to where the reader says,
[13:16]gosh, I think I need both of these things.
[13:19]It's a lot of pressure for one person,
[13:21]especially when you're writing nonfiction,
[13:23]to put on yourself, to be the stand out.
[13:28]Like, like the only resource meaning, meaning,
[13:31]the only resource a reader will ever need.
[13:35]I feel like that's a lot of pressure.
[13:36]So, you know, figuring out why you,
[13:41]we get that spark within us that says,
[13:43]I wanna do, I think this would be fun.
[13:45]I wanna write this and coming back to that
[13:48]and going, what, let's spark that.
[13:50]Why did we think that would be fun?
[13:52]Why, I mean, that question will come back many times, right?
[13:57]Why did I think this was a good idea?
[14:00]But, you know, some things sparked it.
[14:04]And it's usually because you,
[14:05]not to be wackadoo or woo-woo,
[14:07]but your soul, your spirit has something unique to say
[14:10]about that experience or, you know,
[14:14]more speaking in the memoir nonfiction realm now,
[14:16]fiction is a little bit different,
[14:18]but, yeah, one of your tips is to create an epic timeline,
[14:22]which is controversial, right?
[14:25]A lot of people don't wanna have an outline.
[14:27]Like, all the answers and you say here,
[14:30]if you're more creative and go with the flow,
[14:31]you certainly can write without outlining if you choose
[14:34]and fill in the gaps later on.
[14:35]But for most people, having a basic understanding
[14:38]of what each chapter's main point is
[14:40]and what stories best support,
[14:41]the main point helps the writing flow
[14:44]with far greater ease.
[14:45]Having an outline allows your writing sessions
[14:48]to be focused and intentional.
[14:50]Yeah.
[14:51]So I love this topic
[14:52]because I've had so many people say,
[14:54]I'm not doing an outline.
[14:55]And they're typically people who don't like structure
[14:58]and they don't like feeling boxed in.
[15:00]And so they'll say, Liz, I'm not doing that.
[15:03]That makes me, and so I go, okay fine.
[15:04]But if you're not gonna do it
[15:06]and you can sit down and the words just flow,
[15:08]more power to you, I would sit down
[15:11]and just be, do not, I would turn on Netflix.
[15:16]But you know, reverse outlining can be equally beneficial.
[15:20]So if you're someone who wants to just sit down
[15:22]and let it all come out of you, at some point,
[15:25]I recommend that people go back
[15:27]and outline what they've already written
[15:29]so that they can see if there is some semblance
[15:32]of a coherent flow.
[15:34]The thing with outlining that I found
[15:36]is that it's not meant to be,
[15:39]it's a fluid document.
[15:41]It's not meant to be,
[15:43]you don't have to keep it in stone.
[15:45]So for most people, the outline they start with
[15:50]only vaguely resembles the final product
[15:55]because you kind of write your way through your thoughts.
[15:59]And you start to excavate more and more thoughts
[16:03]and explore more things and go deeper into the cave
[16:06]and be like, oh my gosh, I didn't know this was here.
[16:07]Oh, I didn't know I wanted to talk about that.
[16:09]So you're kind of adding to and removing
[16:12]and moving things around, it's not as structured
[16:15]as some people.
[16:16]It's not like eighth grade when you had to write,
[16:18]you know, Roman numeral one and capital A
[16:22]and all that and all the way down.
[16:24]Giving me like negatives.
[16:26]I know, sorry, it's a little bit of PTSD.
[16:28]I know, I know.
[16:30]I see what my kids do now and it's not exactly the same.
[16:33]You know, they have like a new take.
[16:34]It's a little bit more interesting
[16:36]than at least how we were taught.
[16:37]Speaking of kids, five kids, how have you written
[16:40]all these books and books?
[16:41]You have four, what are you talking about?
[16:43]I know, but it's different.
[16:44]I don't know.
[16:46]It's also a whole extra kid.
[16:47]You have a whole extra kid in there.
[16:49]And so I feel like do they meld together?
[16:52]Like I don't know.
[16:53]And you still have the extra kid.
[16:55]That's true, okay, all right.
[16:57]But no, I mean, it's my career.
[17:00]It's my therapy for lack of a better, you know.
[17:03]I love words, I love story, I love talking,
[17:08]I love right, I love all of it.
[17:10]So when I started, when I wrote my first book,
[17:13]which was, I mean, I think I had three kids under two,
[17:17]three, I don't know.
[17:18]Oh my gosh.
[17:19]Yeah, I don't know.
[17:20]It wasn't the most coherent thing I've ever done.
[17:21]But it wasn't, it was probably a gift
[17:25]because I didn't look at it like,
[17:27]oh, this is a career.
[17:28]I guess it was a creative outlet.
[17:30]It was like something different from diapers
[17:34]and bottles and screaming for incoherent reasons.
[17:37]You know, it's like, so it's just my thing that I do.
[17:42]And I don't always do it, you know,
[17:44]people say, well, do you sit down and write every day?
[17:46]No, I don't.
[17:49]I mean, if I'm working on a book and I have a deadline,
[17:51]then I have a process, yeah, I force it some days, you know,
[17:55]which I'm kind of hate that word, but yeah.
[17:59]It's just, the kids are all in my books as, you know,
[18:02]so I'm in a permission with permission.
[18:04]They love to go back to the early days and go,
[18:07]you made this, my daughter, my oldest daughter,
[18:10]loves to say that my third book is the Book of Lies.
[18:13]That's what she calls it.
[18:14]It's quite serious.
[18:15]And it's how I, that's the title of it.
[18:17]It's kind of how I balanced being a mom of five
[18:20]with the other things I wanted to do.
[18:22]And she's like, this is the Book of Lies.
[18:23]None of these things happened.
[18:24]And I like, there's pictorial proof.
[18:27]What I miss you, they did.
[18:31]Back to some of the basics here, another chapter,
[18:35]but what if I don't sell as many books as so-and-so did?
[18:38]Now this is a big one for published authors.
[18:40]Talk about this one.
[18:41]How did you get over this?
[18:44]I don't know that you get over it
[18:46]as much as you figure out what's really underneath it.
[18:51]So I think first of all, I've never heard of someone
[18:56]who's yet on the bestseller list saying,
[19:00]oh my gosh, I sold 7,924 copies.
[19:04]We don't always really know how many copies.
[19:08]We're making assumptions.
[19:10]Now obviously if you've hit a major bestseller list,
[19:13]we know you've sold a sizable number of books,
[19:15]but still like we're making assumptions.
[19:18]And so what I like to talk to people about is,
[19:21]what is that, so why?
[19:24]I mean, to put the question back on them
[19:26]in a compassionate way,
[19:29]so what if you don't sell as many books as so-and-so?
[19:33]What do you, what are you making that mean?
[19:36]And that's where people start to go, oh, okay.
[19:41]And they start to realize how much of their ego
[19:44]might be involved or like whether or not
[19:48]they're thinking about it in the air quote right way.
[19:51]Is it about selling more books than so-and-so?
[19:55]Or is it about, again, coming back to the why
[19:58]is the whole reason you wanna do-
[20:00]this because you just want to entertain or impact or change the help change the perspective
[20:06]or whatever of one person. One question I ask people before I oftentimes before I work with
[20:13]them is if you knew that your book was only going to sell one copy to one person, but it would
[20:20]radically change their life or their thought process or whatever, would you still do it?
[20:25]and if the answer is no, sometimes that gives me a little bit of pause.
[20:31]I mean, there are variables in there, right? But it helps me assess and I think it helps them assess
[20:39]what their intention is, which is different from the why. And there's no wrong answer there.
[20:46]I have people say like, well, is it wrong for me to want to make money off of a book?
[20:50]Like if I'm trying to help people, is it wrong that I also want to make money? So there are all these
[20:57]like, there are all these different things that start to crop up. It's interesting. Yeah,
[21:03]it's just interesting to talk about. So when I was still in the thick of it with my twins,
[21:08]one of my best, best oldest friends became pregnant with twins. And so I wrote a book
[21:15]just for her, called like little morsels, everything I wish I had known about having twins.
[21:19]I had no intention in publishing it. And I didn't, I self published it. And I only made like 10
[21:23]copies and I gave them all to her. I think I might have one, but I don't know where it is.
[21:26]But that, that's literally what you're saying. I wrote that for one book.
[21:30]But it's like, face, I'm like, you changed her life. But I didn't, but then, but that's not the
[21:36]same, at least for me, right? As trying to write another book that I'm trying to sell
[21:42]to a publisher and get it out in the world and like make a big effort and then have the numbers
[21:48]perhaps not live up to the, to the effort put forth to like market the book and all the things
[21:54]you have to do as an author. 100, I couldn't agree with you more. And there's a difference,
[21:59]I think, between disappointment and kind of just feeling like, oh, shoot, you know, like what,
[22:06]what could I have done differently? Or was it was mercury and that retrograde? Like what, what happened
[22:12]here? And, and disappointment is a completely fair feeling, you know, and they are very different,
[22:20]right? If you, if you know, I'm just writing this because I just want to give it to my best friend
[22:24]and help her out, then you don't have an expectation. But when you have an expectation,
[22:30]because you're putting so much of yourself into it, that, and you can't control the outcome,
[22:37]right? That is just, it's challenging. Okay. Well, there's not really an answer.
[22:49]There's definitely no right answer. Yeah. I mean, I think your point too is mercury and retrograde,
[22:54]not that exact point. But, you know, did the culture shift did something, did another big event,
[23:00]obscure books in general? Was there, is it the middle of an election? Is it, you know,
[23:05]they're all these big things, big, sweeping things. It's, I mean, terrible happened. And no one's
[23:10]even thinking about books, certainly not your book. No, I remember when my, what if year was
[23:14]getting ready to launch? And I remember when you posted, like we're going on Good Morning America,
[23:18]and you said, I've been so hesitant to even announce this because I didn't know if it would get
[23:23]bumped, because you just don't ever know. You don't ever. I can't even imagine. I mean,
[23:29]that week before when both, because both of you, I'm imagining were very excited about that.
[23:34]And so it's like, please, and thankfully it didn't. But, I remember in business school,
[23:40]I was in business school in 9-11, and I've written a lot about this. But what I haven't said as much
[23:45]is I remember sitting in class because someone talked about a friend of theirs who had a book that
[23:50]just came out like that day or that week or something. And they had spent all this time on the book.
[23:57]And I, you know, I always wanted to be a writer and an author. And so I remember in that moment
[24:01]thinking like, oh my gosh, all that time. And like, I know this is not even close to the biggest
[24:08]you know, loss of the pandemic or at not the pandemic, the of 9-11. And you know, I had lost
[24:13]someone too. But I was still like thinking about all the authors then and what that does when you've
[24:18]worked for years and years and finally have your moment. And then it's gone. And you can't like
[24:23]have it back. I don't know. So anyway, you just never know. Just never know. I, I, I, I don't know.
[24:31]You talk about the editing process. And then you say, but how do I get Reese Witherspoon or
[24:36]Chris Pratt to endorse it? That's, that's so easy. Some people would probably say it is, but
[24:47]yeah, it's like, yeah. Yeah. And you say, what about bookstores? So I do think this is really
[24:55]interesting because bookstores have so much power really in collectively and making your
[25:00]breaking a book by just by where they put it, whether it's a big chain or the indie is collectively
[25:04]or, or all that. What are your thoughts on them? All right. I love this discussion because everyone
[25:10]has a different experience and perspective on it. So it, I can only speak from my experience and
[25:15]perspective. But back in the day, I mean, I had when borders was a thing, my book was carried by
[25:20]borders was carried by Barnes and Noble. And I had this thought that, oh my gosh, this means every
[25:25]bookstore is going to carry it. And of course, I had the dream that it was going to be on the
[25:29]front table, not realizing that at that time, the front tables were purchased by the big houses and
[25:34]yada, yada, but a lot of people think that having their book in the bookstore is the mark of a good
[25:41]book. And so I think that at least a lot of people have communicated to me, it's one of the first
[25:47]questions people ask, how do I get the book in the bookstores? And once people start to understand
[25:53]the process of how bookstores actually work with returns and delayed royalty payments and things
[25:59]it doesn't necessarily change their mind about having them wanted and want their book in a bookstore,
[26:04]but it does oftentimes make them feel a little bit more strategic about which bookstores they want
[26:09]to have them in. So what I hear more often than not now is people who want them carried by
[26:15]their favorite indie. Because indie bookstores, I mean, I just couldn't love indie bookstores any
[26:20]more than I do. Just everything about them from the passion of their owners to their connection
[26:26]to the community. And when you go into an indie bookstore, typically almost every event they have,
[26:33]there are like loyalists who are there. It doesn't matter who the author is. They show up because they
[26:39]just love, they know they're going to love something. So I fully support working with,
[26:47]especially independent authors, we're talking about here, but working with independent bookstores
[26:51]to get your book in there. It's just a function of having your expectations properly set
[26:57]and realizing that, and this may be slightly controversial, but if you upload your book through,
[27:02]if you're independently publishing and you upload your book through Ingram's Spark and it says
[27:07]on there, you know, we're going to distribute to 45,000 plus people assume that means, oh my gosh,
[27:16]you know, my book is going to be in every bookstore from here to Kingdom Com. And that's not
[27:21]what's going to happen. So it's the expectation piece. It's not that I'm trying to be Debbie
[27:26]Downer on it at all. It's that I just, I feel like when people have their expectations properly
[27:32]set, they're less likely to be disappointed in an outcome that was going to happen all along.
[27:39]You know, a lot of, I mean, I think that's really the overarching theme to most of what you write
[27:45]in the book is about expectations. The expectation of it being easy to write a book and the reality
[27:50]of it being hard, the expectation that it will sell like hotcakes and the reality that that's like
[27:55]very rare. Like, you know, the expectation of, you know, just all of it. I think that's the number
[28:02]one thing is getting it in the proper buckets before you even begin. Yeah, I think that when people
[28:07]watch other authors and they think, you know, for example, they see an author do really well
[28:12]and they assume that they just woke up in the morning and wrote a beautiful book. That's another
[28:18]one that I hear. You know, people don't realize that the first draft of everything is awful.
[28:23]It's it's just awful. And and when you get a book in your hands that you can't put down,
[28:28]it has been combed through over and over. And it has, I mean, the sweat and the tears literally
[28:35]that have come out of both the author and in many cases the editor to get that thing polished
[28:40]and to air quotes good enough to is significant. And so it's just thinking that an author sits
[28:49]down at their desk writes an incredible book. It comes out beautifully the first time. They launch it
[28:54]on day one. It goes to New York Times number one. They're gazillionaires. Reese Witherspoon wants
[28:59]to have dinner. Like these are the thoughts that people unfortunately have. And then when it doesn't
[29:05]happen to them, they, but they don't know the reality of what it really that that was that author's
[29:11]ninth book that they have been writing in their van for 10 years that, you know, they've had five
[29:17]jobs cobbled together on the side to pay the bills while they were sweating over this manuscript,
[29:25]those sorts of things. I think it's like, I think if authors think of it more visually,
[29:33]like there's Madison Square Garden is full of people writing books all in the same year. And in
[29:39]Madison Square Garden, one person is going to maybe five of this. Well, okay, maybe 20 people are
[29:46]going to hit the bestseller list. And one or 12 will be picked by Reese, right, or whoever.
[29:52]I mean, 12, like, I don't ever expect to win one of those t-shirts thrown at me at Madison Square Garden.
[29:58]You know,
[30:00]right? So let's ask you like how do you because when people hear that do you feel like that just
[30:08]deflates them? You know when they hear oh gosh well no I don't mean for that to be deflating
[30:15]I mean to be validating and I mean like there can be fabulous books there will be fabulous books
[30:22]that touch people's lives sell nicely that aren't going to be on the bestseller list they won't
[30:28]have an accolade next to their name they won't win a prize but they have a nice strong success
[30:35]or would or not or whatever or it's a success for them and you know even even book scan which is
[30:42]what people in the publishing industry use to find out the numbers of other people's books and
[30:47]like you know publishers can use and whatever that's not even representative of all the sales
[30:51]anyway you know and then you have the ebook audiobook special sales I mean it's really impossible
[30:57]so it is and I love the way you said that that it's not meant to be deflating it's actually
[31:02]meant to be encouraging you know because I think people want to realize that there's nothing wrong
[31:08]with them because it's not going to the moon in five seconds it's like you're already enjoying
[31:16]the hockey game or whatever at message square like or the concert right you're at Taylor Swift
[31:20]you already are having a great time with the concert like the the the t-shirt would just be one more
[31:25]great on the cake yeah right right anyway okay enough of the analogy okay Elizabeth this is so
[31:33]awesome I need to go back and read your book of lies now because that's the one I'm most intrigued
[31:37]about I couldn't have made up as creative as I may be on some days I could not have made it up
[31:45]that's so funny well I'm wishing you luck on your novel I can't wait to read thank you so much
[31:51]and thank you I know a lot of people need this and it's just really exciting to think about the
[31:56]fact of what books might come out into the world and help other people as a result of authors
[32:03]picking up your book that you decided to read it's like this huge like one of those huge network
[32:08]not network effects but you know what I mean yeah full staff thank you so anyway it's really awesome
[32:15]good for your support and just honestly for everything you're doing I just think you're
[32:21]magnificent everything you're doing for authors is just such it's so refreshing and inspiring
[32:27]and I just appreciate you so much oh thank you I appreciate you too all right thank you so much
[32:36]have a great day sorry again I was like bye bye thanks for listening to this episode of
[32:44]moms don't have time to read books don't forget to follow me on instagram at zibi Owens and
[32:49]at moms don't have time to read books also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com and sign
[32:54]up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week thanks so much
[32:58]to Steve and Ryan fact texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon
[33:02]productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music