Emma Fedor, AT SEA
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag, where we have lots of wonderful essays and
[0:30]lifestyle features.
[0:31]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:32]We have classes, it's a B-Classist.com, and I recently opened a book store in LA called
[0:39]Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings, but this here podcast is the
[0:51]basis of all of it and started in 2018, and no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite
[0:57]thing.
[0:58]Enjoy.
[1:03]The Fader is the author of Etsy.
[1:05]Emma grew up in Connecticut and later attended Kenyan College, where she double majored
[1:09]in Spanish area studies and English with an emphasis in creative writing.
[1:14]After Kenyan, she continued to pursue creative writing at Boston's Grub Street in Harvard
[1:17]Extension while working in marketing and communications.
[1:20]She lives in Massachusetts with her husband, baby girl, and chocolate lab, Homer.
[1:25]Etsy is her first novel, and maybe we could get Homer and my black lab, Nia, together.
[1:29]We'll see.
[1:30]Emma.
[1:31]Thank you so much for coming on Moms.
[1:32]Don't have time to read books to discuss Etsy, novel.
[1:35]Thanks for having me.
[1:36]I'm excited to be here.
[1:38]Listeners cannot see the cover, but you have to just stop what you're doing as you listen
[1:41]and Google this cover or something for Etsy by Emma Fader, Fader, but it's this very
[1:48]cool underwater blue with this coral, I don't know, I'm not at sea in these two bodies.
[1:55]It is just so beautiful and captivating, and it's a great entry point into the story,
[1:59]which is also sort of immersive and interwoven and bubbly and all the things, so it's
[2:06]a fitting cover.
[2:07]Thank you.
[2:08]Yeah.
[2:09]They did a great job with it.
[2:10]So Emma, tell everybody about the book.
[2:14]What does that see about?
[2:15]Sure.
[2:16]So at sea follows Kara, she's a recent college graduate.
[2:20]She's 22 aspiring artists, and when she can't find a job, she resolves to spending
[2:26]the summer on Martha's Vineyard with her cookie aunt.
[2:30]And while she's there, she meets and falls in love with Brendan, who is this charming,
[2:36]charismatic soldier who's on leave.
[2:40]And he tells her this incredible secret and claims that he has the ability to breathe
[2:45]underwater.
[2:47]So the two fall into this whirlwind romance, they end up having a child together, which
[2:52]is not a spoiler, but that out there, they have a child together.
[2:54]And then one night, Brendan and the child just disappear without a trace.
[2:59]Don't know what happened to them.
[3:01]And so for years, Kara's sort of left to figure out what happened to our family until
[3:05]one day a fisherman spots two figures in the middle of the ocean, not near boats or land
[3:11]or anything.
[3:12]They're in the water, then they just go right back under the water and they never come
[3:15]back up.
[3:16]And so that's how the novel starts as you see these two figures.
[3:19]And then Kara's trying to figure out was that them and my crazy could he really be
[3:23]underwater?
[3:24]Was this true?
[3:25]So yeah, I tell people it's a little bit romance, a little bit thriller, a little bit coming
[3:31]of age.
[3:32]It's got a lot going on.
[3:34]It's sort of, did you watch Splash ever, I mean, you're too, you're in that way.
[3:38]Oh, yeah, no.
[3:39]I know.
[3:40]No, I know.
[3:41]I mean, not that this is like that, but just the notion that there could be someone with
[3:45]these extra powers and almost like a little mermaid even, you know, it's almost like
[3:50]the story, like the oldest time or whatever that dawn is all this time, never meant.
[3:55]Do you know what I'm talking about?
[3:57]Taylor's all the time, you know, but in a whole new modern way, the scene that I feel
[4:02]like that like I can't get out of my head is when, yeah, Kara walks in and Brandon's trying
[4:07]to give the baby a bath and she's like, I know what you're doing, watch that like, no,
[4:12]no, no, no, no.
[4:13]You know, like you don't know, the baby has this gift or not, like stop, you know,
[4:17]so like as it's just like like cold sweat type of reaction to that, right.
[4:23]Yeah.
[4:24]So that there's that scene, you know, they have this baby and they wonder, oh, would the baby
[4:27]have inherited this, this gift?
[4:29]Yeah.
[4:30]And so the father, Brandon decides to test it out by kind of holding the baby underwater
[4:35]and yeah, obviously, as a mother, that's terrifying.
[4:38]I have a three month old.
[4:39]I just had a baby.
[4:41]It's getting close to home for me too now.
[4:43]It seems like that piece of it, the fear of life as a new mom was so vibrant.
[4:49]So I'm actually surprised that you wrote it before all of that because, you know,
[4:53]really captured that fear and the empty crib and the, what you feel, oh, my gosh, bringing
[4:59]someone to talk about and all of that.
[5:02]But then you use time really interestingly in the book when you're going back and forth
[5:05]and you introduced us early on to Graham, the, you know, the current day partner and
[5:11]there's so much that courses through about how these men even handle her reactions to big
[5:19]things and loss and everything else and how she sort of navigates around them and finding
[5:24]her way swimming around to try to find her spot in the world.
[5:28]So tell me a little bit about how you structured those relationships and all that.
[5:34]Yeah, so I mean, the first thing you touched on is kind of the element of time and how
[5:38]it works in the novel and it's, you know, as you know, the novel sort of alternates between
[5:41]time periods.
[5:42]So it starts in, I think it's 2008, which is when Karen Brennan, her first meeting and
[5:48]sort of their courtship and then it goes flash forward to the present when he's gone and
[5:52]she's, she's moved on with someone else, Graham.
[5:56]And it's interesting because when I was writing it, I actually, I, it originally was in
[6:00]a part one and part two.
[6:02]So I wrote the whole first part and then the whole like flash forward to part two to 2013,
[6:07]five years later.
[6:08]And it just kind of came from sort of experimenting that I, that I had this alternating
[6:13]narrative idea.
[6:15]I knew I wanted to start the book with that scene of those two figures in the water who
[6:19]disappeared and don't come back up and kind of that mystery of it.
[6:22]I just thought that like really kind of draws in the reader and makes you think like,
[6:26]what?
[6:27]Like what's going on and get to turning pages.
[6:28]I hope, but I, you know, it's so funny, there's so much hate on pro logs and the publishing
[6:33]industry too that I was like, oh, I don't know like you're not supposed to have a pro
[6:36]log.
[6:37]I don't know.
[6:38]I don't know.
[6:39]I don't know.
[6:40]I feel about it.
[6:41]So I thought, well, let's just play around and see what happens.
[6:42]So I, you know, printed the whole thing out and literally like paper clip sections and shuffle
[6:47]them around until I got it just right.
[6:50]And I think it, I hope it, it helped with the tension in a way, you know, to kind of go back
[6:54]and forth.
[6:56]It's tough to do because you don't want people to get confused and you want to show that
[7:00]the characters are kind of different from each time period, which kind of goes or speaks
[7:06]to the second part of your question about these two men, Graham and Brendan.
[7:11]I think, you know, Kara's 22 pretty naive when she first meets Brendan and he's just
[7:18]really exciting and new and so she falls for that.
[7:22]And then I think later, she kind of grows up, you know, because she goes through all of
[7:28]this turmoil and then she sort of veers toward Graham who's much more stable.
[7:34]Although as you mentioned, even he sort of kind of doesn't always believe her throughout
[7:39]the book.
[7:40]He's always sort of questioning her.
[7:42]So it's a tough, nothing's ever sunshine and rainbows with either of them.
[7:46]But I think it's really interesting to see how she changes and how her priorities change
[7:50]too over the course of the novel totally.
[7:54]And I also completely related to this wait hold on, let me find it when you're talking
[7:58]about the books that she was reading.
[8:00]Oh, he said, what was wrong with her?
[8:02]She felt good the past few months and now suddenly it seemed as if she might burst into tears
[8:06]at any moment.
[8:07]She paused at the entrance of the room and took a deep breath.
[8:09]Everything looked as it always had.
[8:11]The white rot, rot iron, bed frame, the scalloped shell pillows, the green crystalline
[8:16]curtain knobs, the emerald window seat cushion, books she could remember her mom reading
[8:20]leaned against a decorative brass anchor on the bureau.
[8:23]The poisonwood Bible, memoirs of the geisha, summer sisters, like this is just such a perfect
[8:28]immersion to going to her parents' house and I didn't just such, I was so rooted in that
[8:33]time in place because that is how you would find my mother's shells that you have back
[8:37]in the day.
[8:38]Anyway, talk about her relationship and the loss and all of that with her own family of
[8:42]origin.
[8:43]Yeah, so when we meet Cara at the beginning of the novel, she's still sort of reeling
[8:49]from the loss of her mother.
[8:51]It's been years.
[8:52]I think her mother dies shortly before she goes to college and this is four years later,
[8:58]but grief doesn't, as you know, doesn't just disappear overnight and it can just be triggered
[9:04]by the smallest thing and so you realize the vineyard was something that she always did
[9:10]with her mother's side of the family.
[9:12]And so when her mother passed away, they just kind of stopped going.
[9:16]She had always assumed, oh, as a feeling, we'll still go, but she didn't realize, you
[9:20]know, well, it doesn't have the same connection for her father and it might be too painful
[9:24]for her father.
[9:26]So she hadn't gone.
[9:27]She goes back and it's like, she just gets this wave of emotion and I think anyone who's
[9:33]experienced grief can relate to that where you'll be totally fine one minute and then
[9:40]there's just something that triggers and it brings it back and you try to fight it.
[9:45]Like, no, I don't want to do this here.
[9:47]Like, I was doing so well and then, you know, there's almost like this like shame to
[9:51]it.
[9:52]You feel like you should be moved on by now, but it lingers and it can hit at any moment.
[9:58]And so I think that's important with care.
[10:00]character because it also shows that she's still really in this vulnerable state. You know,
[10:05]and so that, you know, I thought some people might think, like, why is she falling for this
[10:10]guy or, you know, believing what he says? It's so outlandish. Like, a lot of red flags here.
[10:17]He loves her so, like, unconditionally from the bat that that's so nice and easy for her,
[10:27]whereas, you know, her life has been turmoil with her family in the past few years.
[10:31]Her, she grew up in Vermont. Her, her dad picked up and moved the whole family to Arizona,
[10:36]which is like the opposite of Vermont and has, you know, a new wife now. And so it's a,
[10:42]it's a huge part of who she is and where she is in that, that moment of time, you know, and,
[10:48]and just sort of reconnecting with her mother's family and remembering her in that way is
[10:57]a huge moment for her. Have you had a similar grief experience? You know, I wouldn't say
[11:05]not necessarily. I haven't, thank goodness, lost anyone, you know, super close to me in that way.
[11:11]I honestly, though, as a writer, what I do is I, I find any kind of grief or something similar I've
[11:16]found and then I kind of channel it into a different way. And so I'm happy to sit, like, in my life,
[11:23]one thing I really dealt with was infertility and, and trying to get pregnant and, and having
[11:27]miscarriages and, and losing, doing IVF and having failed transfers and a lot of that was going on
[11:35]near the time I was writing this book. And so that was a similar thing where I just always had this
[11:41]kind of like grief looming over me of like, oh my gosh, what if I never get to have a child,
[11:47]you know, and so that's something that I would use to, to channel and take care of in this book.
[11:53]And then of course also I would think what if I did lose my mother, you know, how would I feel
[11:59]what would that be like? That's how I do a lot of my writing is sort of what if or finding a similar
[12:05]situation and thinking how there are parallels. Yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through all that.
[12:11]This is unique. Thank you. A brand of misery.
[12:14]But I've got my baby girl now. She's done.
[12:18]Graz, tell me about, so you went to Kenyon and you studied writing, where did you grow up and
[12:24]like give me like the little backstory up to here and how you got to wherever you are now.
[12:30]I grew up in Connecticut and I told myself I would never go to Kenyon because my parents went to
[12:37]Kenyon. I've like four aunts and two uncles. I went to Kenyon. I was like, I don't want to be
[12:42]just like everybody else. But I got sucked in in part because I think I sort of knew in my soul
[12:48]that I wanted to be a writer and it's, you know, for its writing program. So yeah, I went there,
[12:53]did an emphasis in creative writing. And then when I graduated from school, I spent some time
[13:00]abroad, then I came home and similar to Cara. I couldn't find a job. I was living at home
[13:06]in my parent house. And I remember thinking, all right, I've got all this time. My parents
[13:15]are helping support me for the time being. I've always wanted to write a novel. Let's just give it
[13:20]a shot. Like let's just see if I can even write that much. You know, that was the first thing for
[13:26]me was not even like, is it a coherent story? But like, can I write that many words? So, you know,
[13:30]coming from school right or only written like 30 pages next. And what was great is that,
[13:36]I mean, this was back in the time where not everyone had Wi-Fi. So my parents, we didn't have Wi-Fi
[13:41]in the house. I had to use like the family computer if I needed internet. So I had, I go upstairs
[13:45]with my laptop and have just like distraction-free writing time, right? I wasn't, you know,
[13:51]Googling things or I didn't have a smartphone. So that was my first attempt at a book. I wrote
[13:58]a whole book, a lot of ways inspired by some of the time I spent abroad. And I was like,
[14:04]all right, I did it. I wrote a whole book. I'm never going to give up on it, right? Like,
[14:08]I put my bloods wouldn't ears in this. And I sort of educated myself on agents and pitching to
[14:16]agents and the publishing industry. I sort of set the school of wanting, you know, to do traditional
[14:21]publishing. And for years and years, I revised, I re-did my query. I mean, when I started,
[14:28]you had to like mail in your query letters and materials like snail mail. Yep. We're
[14:32]still afraid of opening attachments. They're just so funny now. And then slowly over time,
[14:36]people started bitches funny to think of that now. But yeah, I would go to the post office,
[14:39]I'd mail it in. And then over time, it was like, it's just not working. You know, like, I,
[14:46]I think I sent, I mean, close to 100 queries. Maybe got, maybe I got two requests for material,
[14:52]right? And so I did the thing that I said I would never do. And I was like, I'm going to start over
[14:58]because I think I, I came to understand more about the industry. I knew I was a better writer at
[15:04]that point. I was sick of the old manuscript, you know, and I, you know, missed writing something.
[15:12]And I think that original manuscript, it maybe didn't have really the
[15:16]a strong enough plot. You know, it was, it was kind of just like this like regurgitation of all
[15:21]these things I was feeling. So I started from square one. I started writing at sea. And, you know,
[15:27]it took me forever. It took me five years, I think, to write at sea. Because I worked full time,
[15:33]you know, and it's, I do a lot of writing in my day job. The last thing I wanted to do when I
[15:38]I got home was keep writing. I was tired. So it was mostly just like weekends here and there,
[15:44]maybe vacations, just get chipping out of overtime. And then I entered the query trenches again.
[15:52]This time I just, I think I had a better understanding of how to kind of pitch and
[15:56]white agents were looking for. So I, I don't know how long I was doing that, but I probably
[16:03]sent close to like 25 or so queries. But this time got much more interest. So I knew it was like
[16:09]a little closer. And you know, anytime anyone exposes any interest, you're like, oh my gosh,
[16:13]jumping on the couch, so great. And then I eventually led to a call with my current agents Wendy
[16:20]Sherman and Kelly D. Trikora, the best dream team. Really like Wendy Sherman so much she's off.
[16:25]Yeah, amazing. She's like you, she just like never stops. Yeah, it's been amazing since then,
[16:31]they were able to sell it to a publisher. And here we are. Oh my gosh, congratulations. I love hearing
[16:37]stories. You know, I sign the acknowledgements that you think to someone for finding it in the
[16:41]slash file. And yeah, it's amazing. It really, it really wasn't a slash pile. And I'm sure
[16:47]you can talk about this all day. But another thing I just think is really interesting is that
[16:51]there's like a Twitter event that happens a couple times a year called pitch madness. People
[16:57]other writers probably know about it. Hashtag Pitman, where you can, you know, pitch your book on
[17:03]Twitter, but you know, it can only be, I don't even know what the limit is on Twitter anymore,
[17:06]whatever 130 characters or whatever it is. And then actual agents and editors will go on and like
[17:13]it. And if they like it, that means you can send them material. I literally never heard of this.
[17:17]And I feel like a moron. I also, I feel no out of it talking to you because I'm like, okay,
[17:22]pitch med and I didn't know Prologs were out of favor. I really like Prologs. So I'm like,
[17:27]where is she getting off this news? I feel so out of the way. But that's the thing is that what
[17:31]I always told you, but there's no right or wrong way, right? Like that's the biggest thing I always
[17:35]felt like I had to follow these rules. And like I hope no one takes away that they can't do that.
[17:40]It's just when you when you're like me and you listen to all those like podcasts and read all the
[17:44]blogs about like how to get evens attention. Like those are some of the things that come up. But
[17:49]anyway, for the pitch madness, for anyone who's sort of querying, it's a fascinating exercise
[17:55]because it forces you to boil down your little query pitch to just like this little log line.
[18:01]And I remember thinking mine were like, so cheesy and stupid. You know, I was like,
[18:07]oh, this sounds so bad. I think it was like, he says she can breathe underwater. She's not so sure.
[18:13]Like just these little like, you're like, ooh, what exactly? And yeah, and those are the ones
[18:20]that got the attention, which for me, I was like, oh, that it doesn't convey like, you know,
[18:25]the richness of the book, you know, but it gets attention and it really transformed the way that
[18:33]I did my queries. And I think ultimately made me write a better pitch for the book and helped me
[18:40]land my agents just that exercise because we writers can be a little long-winded sometimes,
[18:46]you know, you need your book. It's your baby. You want to write everything you possibly can
[18:51]in this pitch like, oh, and it has this and it has this. And then this happens. And I think it's a
[18:55]cool, a cool exercise for people too. Wow. I'm actually like trying to finish this novel I'm writing,
[19:01]which is due in like five weeks. I'm like, how would I even summarize this on Twitter? Like,
[19:09]anyway, I better do that because it probably helps you focus the book itself, right? When you know
[19:14]exactly sort of the main hook or the main piece of it, I don't know. Right, you got it. That's
[19:21]excellent advice. So I'm taking one thing. It's so hard, but it, you know, ultimately, I really
[19:27]feel like it helped me. So, wow, not to mention, I have to now go on and try to find books myself
[19:32]on Twitter. I have to publish for today. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. People are like, you know,
[19:39]this everybody in the publishing industry knows. I'm like, I'm literally sitting in my room.
[19:42]Do you know, like, where is this industry? Yeah, we're all like connected, but there's not like
[19:47]a hallway and you didn't. Anyway, it's like all the time quarters of the world. Yeah. That's awesome.
[19:55]Well, five years, well, good for you. I mean, I think one of the things you're saying that.
[20:00]is just so important is this whole notion of just you will not get a book published if you
[20:05]don't keep working on your book and keep trying to sell it. And if you don't hit right away,
[20:10]it's fine. I mean, I honestly think you can't sell a book till you've written like two practice
[20:15]novels. You have to learn how to do it before you write that. I mean, I guess occasionally people
[20:22]do it, but I think it's so rare to, even though you think it's like the best thing and it probably
[20:27]is really good. It'll just get better. And it's so hard to break in that like, you know,
[20:33]maybe a B is great, but like you really need an A plus. So most times, even if you do something
[20:39]well, you should just wait till you get better at it or something. And I hate it here or not. Like,
[20:45]I always, everyone knows because when you do no matter how many times, I was like, no,
[20:50]I'm not going to be one of those people that's like, oh, I gave up and started over. I was like,
[20:54]no way. Like, I can't stare at that blank cursor again. But I did, you know, I think it comes from
[21:00]because if you, you love it enough, you'll keep doing it because you want to keep going and you
[21:05]have to keep writing. And I think that's a huge part of it too. Just wanting to be published and
[21:12]have that part. I don't think is enough. You have to genuinely enjoy the process, at least in my case,
[21:18]I never would have been able to do it if I didn't drive some joy from it. Don't get me wrong,
[21:23]some days it's torturous. But most of the time, I love it. I feel like for the vast majority of us,
[21:27]no one's like, we really need you to write a novel. No one's sitting around waiting for another novel
[21:34]in the show. So it has to be something deep inside you that you just cannot let go of. So
[21:39]exactly. And so are you working on anything new now? I am. So I promised myself I would
[21:47]get a manuscript draft done before the baby came because I was like, I don't know. My life's
[21:52]is going to be like, and glad I did that. We'll just sit that way. But yeah, I'm working on. It's
[21:58]totally different from at sea, but it's a book that surrounds a bunch of rock climbers. And basically,
[22:06]there's a rock climber you find out at the beginning. He's fallen to his death, but it's a little
[22:10]suspicious. We're not sure what happened. And so the book starts a few months before that
[22:14]and is told it's a multi POV novel told in the perspective of four people who are very close to
[22:20]him, all of whom may be suspects. So I'm, yeah, I've got a whole manuscript draft of that so far.
[22:26]We'll see what, you know, I haven't sold it or anything. I don't know. It's going to come a bit,
[22:30]but that's a little teaser. And I don't rock climbs. So that's definitely a challenge, but I'm
[22:36]fortunate that I have a sister who who who does and for years was a really avid rock climber.
[22:42]So she's reading it right now and giving me all these tips and saying like, this is totally
[22:46]inaccurate or this will never happen. So I almost feel like she should like be listed as co-author
[22:52]or something if it ever comes out because I, she's a huge, she's helped me a lot with it.
[22:56]You could give her like a with, you know, like, yeah, yeah, with, you know, but then I'll,
[23:02]I've already planned. I'll have to put one of those notes. That's like, thank you,
[23:05]Halley, for checking everything, but any mistakes are my own. Yeah, right, right, right, right.
[23:09]Yeah. I mean, with a three month old, I could barely function. I mean, I couldn't even like get
[23:15]dressed. So, I mean, I did, but it was hard. The thought of like using all of your creative juices
[23:21]at the same time. I mean, that's up to you. Good luck. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I, I'm a draft, but still,
[23:27]it's, it's hitting that I'm on the mom's. Don't have time to read podcast. So that's what I was
[23:32]thinking. It was like, my husband couldn't wander. My mom couldn't wander. So grandpa's down there
[23:37]is first time alone. I don't hear anything. So she's, I think they're doing okay, but when I
[23:44]interviewed Claire bidwell Smith in person years ago, it was in LA. And she's like, I have to
[23:50]bring my baby. And I was like, great. And so we sat next to each other. And he was in his little
[23:56]car seat on the floor. And then like, I was holding him for a while and be the microphone between us
[24:01]and I pass him to her. And now he's like, a kid, you know, I'm like, like, that's the baby. So no,
[24:09]I, I, and that would have been fine if you were holding a baby. Yeah, you love babies so much.
[24:15]Like, such baby addict. I miss having them in my orbit. I mean, I love having older kids now,
[24:21]but right, even just a borrow a kid for an afternoon. Yeah, I'm trying to sleep. Or even
[24:27]the times when I'm like, you know, totally strung out and sleep different. I'm like, don't
[24:30]stay for this, stay for this moment. Do you have authors who like your whole life, you're like,
[24:36]oh, if only, you know, like this is my role model author or to someone I've like, love to read over
[24:42]time or I don't know. Any, any like in the spotlight of your mind? Yeah, I think, you know, growing up,
[24:50]huge influence on me and who made me a huge reader was Judy Bloom. Like, I mean, come on.
[24:56]Yeah. And she's got that, she's got a moving coming out soon. But definitely like how summer
[25:01]sisters is cited in book. That's a little nod. So that she's someone who just as a kid,
[25:07]like I just felt like I could really relate to those books that really got me into reading.
[25:12]So she's, she's been huge. And I think like probably my favorite author right now is Lily King.
[25:19]I just love everything that she does. I, you know, could never even like put my books in the
[25:26]same room as hers. But I, I would, I aspire to write like she does. I just think it's so beautifully
[25:33]done. She's a big one for me as well. That's okay. I love the liking. Oh my gosh. Writers and lovers
[25:38]were so good. And her recent short story collection. Anyway, okay. Well, any advice I know we've
[25:44]talked a lot about advice essentially by our conversation, but any parting advice for aspiring
[25:49]authors. Yeah. What I was trying to sort of say earlier is that like you have to find what works
[25:56]for you. It's so easy to, you know, go into the wormhole of blogs with advice or even take advice
[26:04]from teachers or other students. And there's no right or wrong way to go about this, both in terms
[26:13]of like your lifestyle and also just kind of your process. I always felt like I felt this pressure
[26:20]to be like the starving artists writer, you know, who's like only dedicated to her craft and
[26:25]and would stay up all night writing in with like live paycheck to paycheck. Like that's what a real
[26:30]writer is. And over time, I was like, no, like I need insurance. I like stability. I like knowing
[26:40]where things are going to come from. And maybe it makes it slower, you know, like I don't get
[26:44]done as quickly. But I'm just I'm someone who I like to pay my bills that time. I don't like to
[26:50]wait till the last minute. I do my taxes and advance. And then I'm less stressed. And I write better
[26:55]I think. And so I think, but I had this stupid preconceived notion in my head that there's a certain
[27:01]type of writer or I always thought I needed like a writing space with a desk and no, like I write
[27:08]in my laptop in my bed and my pajamas with horrible posture. Like that works better for me. I
[27:14]some people write every day. I'll go weeks without writing. And that's fine. Some people
[27:20]outline and have a whole idea of the pop before they go. I have almost no idea where I'm going
[27:26]when I start. I just start writing, you know, a pants or as they say, rather than a planner. And so
[27:31]just keeping that in mind, like there's, there's you have to find know who you are. And what, what's
[27:38]going to get you down to sit down and write and and keep going. And there's, there's really
[27:43]no right or wrong way. Some people it's huge to get an MFA, but you don't necessarily need one. If
[27:49]that's not something that's working with your life right now, you know, I, for years,
[27:53]worry that I would never get anywhere without that. Just basically my advice is, you know,
[27:59]take all advice with a, with a grain of salt. That is actually great advice.
[28:05]Do you have a big Kenyan event coming up to celebrate your book? I hope that they're planning on
[28:10]doing so. No, not yet. But I, I've been in touch with them. So, so we'll see. So stay tuned on that.
[28:16]I hope so, because they're the bunch of other authors. I think who might have books coming
[28:20]on soon. So not that. Okay. Well, it's so great getting to know you. Where are you based by the way?
[28:26]Where do you live now? I'm outside Boston in Massachusetts. Oh, nice. Okay. Awesome. Well, I hope
[28:32]our paths will cross. I'm sure I'll be in Boston. And it was great to get to know you. And congratulations
[28:36]on Etsy. Thank you. Thank you. This was so fun. Thank you so much to be and go look with your book
[28:41]store opening. Thank you. Oh, yes. I'm so exciting. Okay. All right. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye.
[28:49]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[28:53]follow me on Instagram at zibbowens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my
[28:58]newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[29:04]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. Heck, texture sound for the sound editing.
[29:08]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now
[29:12]trim music.