Tara Schuster, GLOW IN THE F*CKING DARK: Simple Practices to Heal Your Soul, from Someone Who Learned the Hard Way
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[1:03]Tara Schuster is the author of Glow and the Fing Dark, simple practices to heal your soul
[1:08]from someone who learned the hard way.
[1:11]Tara is an accomplished entertainment executive, turn mental health advocate, and best-selling
[1:15]author.
[1:16]She's the author of The Runaway Hit, Buy Yourself the Fing Lily's, which was a finalist for Goodreads
[1:22]Best Nonfiction Book of 2020.
[1:24]It was selected by Cosmopolitan, Real Simple, Group Publishers Weekly, and many more as one
[1:29]of the best books of the year on mental health and self-care.
[1:32]Previously, Tara served as vice president of talent and development at Comedy Central,
[1:36]where she was the executive in charge of such critically acclaimed shows as the Emmy and
[1:40]Peabody Award winning key and peel.
[1:43]She has contributed to in style the New Yorker and Forbes among others.
[1:46]She lives in Los Angeles.
[1:48]Welcome Tara.
[1:49]Thanks for coming on Moms.
[1:50]Don't have time to read books to discuss Glow in the Fing Dark.
[1:54]Thank you for having me.
[1:56]I'm excited.
[1:57]Excited to see you.
[1:58]Excited to do this.
[1:59]Excited to see you too.
[2:00]And I'm excited for upcoming event together finally after our last one was canceled in
[2:03]LA.
[2:04]The pandemic.
[2:05]Years later.
[2:06]Here we go.
[2:07]Due to that little thing, a little talked about a pandemic, yeah, I'm really excited
[2:12]about our event.
[2:13]I really want to give people journaling tools like, in no way, is it a reading?
[2:19]It's like, okay, you're interested.
[2:21]Let's do this.
[2:22]Yeah, I love that.
[2:25]I do have this really rare ability to make the most terrific things sound funny and to
[2:32]be hopeful in the hardest of times.
[2:35]You're so good at that.
[2:36]Thank you.
[2:37]Every time I read something you write, I'm like, really that too.
[2:40]You know what I mean?
[2:42]You just keep opening the door into your self wider and wider with each book, which I love
[2:47]because it's such an act of generosity to share yourself like that, but also to inspire
[2:52]others to get over whatever it is.
[2:54]And I feel like one of the main takeaways for this book at least is, you can all just
[2:57]like be busy and do your stuff and not deal with what's underneath, but like you're not
[3:02]getting over it.
[3:03]You know, if you're not dealing with this, it's coming out your ears, and even worse, if
[3:09]you're not dealing with it, the people who love you are, there's no way around that, you
[3:15]know, and I used to think for a long time that if I really dug deep, it was like ruined
[3:20]my life and be so overwhelming and who has time for that.
[3:23]And actually, I have a bunch of errands to run, and it didn't really become so urgent
[3:29]until I realized, wait a minute, the way I'm treating my family, my friends, like this
[3:35]isn't about me.
[3:36]This is about my community that I really started to change.
[3:40]Oh my gosh.
[3:41]Well, let's back up a second.
[3:42]So you start this book off, the heel's a big laid off from Comedy Central, which was like
[3:46]the crux of your entire identity for like a decade.
[3:49]Yes.
[3:50]Sort of like hit bottom, start us off there and say what that felt like and all of that.
[3:55]Yeah.
[3:56]So I was at Comedy Central for a third of my life.
[3:59]It was super important to me because it was a substitute for my family.
[4:05]You know, I had grown up in a mess wreck disaster where things came to die, super neglectful,
[4:11]psychologically abusive.
[4:13]But then I found Comedy Central.
[4:16]And it was glamorous, and Jordan Peel and I hung out, and it was like this magic trick
[4:22]to distract, to be like, look over here, and always glammy Hollywood things.
[4:26]Don't look over here at this quarter century of complex trauma.
[4:29]And the job made me feel like less of a weirdo too, because I felt like nobody could
[4:34]relate to me, mostly because nobody talked about these quote unquote odd family dynamics.
[4:40]I didn't have anyone in my life reflecting to me that they had anything similar.
[4:46]So in some ways, the job at Comedy Central was a screw you to everyone else.
[4:50]Like, oh yeah, but I made it.
[4:53]Like I made it in this very public way.
[4:56]And so when I was unceremoniously laid off at the beginning of the pandemic, I just went
[5:02]into identity free fall.
[5:04]You know, at that point, people were introducing me to our Schuster Comedy Central.
[5:10]Like it was my married last name.
[5:12]And with an absence of being defined by other people, I really did not know who I was.
[5:19]And I was living alone.
[5:20]It was the pandemic.
[5:21]I had no family.
[5:23]You know, I know we all had it bad in different ways, you know, if you were stuck with your
[5:26]whole family at home, not great.
[5:28]But if you were stuck alone alone with gesture thoughts, no job and no trauma, that wasn't
[5:34]great either.
[5:35]And so instead of, you know, calming down for one minute and saying, I have savings,
[5:41]my life is not an immediate danger.
[5:44]Let me reflect.
[5:45]I was like, we are going to push through this like let's immediately find new meaning.
[5:51]I'm going to find a big thing and everybody's going to think I'm so cool because I did
[5:54]this thing.
[5:55]So it was the 2020 election.
[5:57]And I just googled how can I help in the 2020 election?
[6:01]One of the first search results was you can help register voters in Arizona.
[6:05]And truly just like that, I picked up my Vitamix, picked up a bag of books I would never
[6:13]read, stuffed them in my crease of doom and set off on the road.
[6:19]And on the road, unfortunately, I had one of the worst associative episodes of my whole
[6:24]life.
[6:25]It was dangerous.
[6:26]I felt completely out of control of my body.
[6:29]I was speeding at 95, which I'm not a good enough driver to be driving that fast.
[6:35]My hands were on the steering wheel and I knew they were mine, like I knew they were
[6:39]my hands, but they looked like they were completely detached from my body.
[6:45]And I just realized that this is really unsafe.
[6:49]I can't keep going.
[6:51]I can't keep overwhelming.
[6:52]I can't keep achieving my way through life.
[6:54]I've got to pull over.
[6:56]And that was one of the very first times in my life where I pulled over, stopped.
[7:02]Because I was in the Mojave Desert driving to Arizona.
[7:07]And because LA is so light polluted, when I looked up, it looked like I was in a star
[7:14]field, you know, that I was in this like celestial body.
[7:18]And I just wondered looking up at these stars that we know how stars come together.
[7:22]It's masses of dust and debris and they get pushed and they get put under pressure.
[7:28]And then they go nuclear in the center and that's how they shine.
[7:32]And I just thought, man, those stars shine in the bleakest of circumstances consistently.
[7:38]They didn't have it the best.
[7:40]They actually went through a lot of BS to become who they are.
[7:43]So I just wonder, can I glow like that?
[7:47]Is there a way for me to find safety within myself so that when everything is taken away,
[7:53]I'm not just lost at sea?
[7:57]And that's the question of this book is, is there an essential self?
[8:01]If there isn't essential self, has it been so messed up that you can't trust it?
[8:05]Because I didn't trust anything inside of me.
[8:08]And could I find that?
[8:09]Could I cultivate it?
[8:11]And that's where we start with glow in the air.
[8:15]Oh my gosh, that is just so amazing.
[8:17]You know, one of your reflections on how you've become the way you were when you do your deep dive
[8:25]is your relationship to fear and putting yourself in harmful situations.
[8:30]And then I found that super interesting to how, because parents are supposed to keep you
[8:35]safe and your parents didn't keep you safe at all.
[8:37]In fact, we're priming you to feel threatened at every opportunity.
[8:41]You just didn't have that sensation.
[8:43]And so when you end up in the desert with the forest, the desert where I, the mountains.
[8:47]Bryce Canyon.
[8:48]Yeah.
[8:49]Canyon, Canyon, right?
[8:50]That's the word with like these like cult guys and like whatever.
[8:54]You're like, okay, why didn't I leave?
[8:56]I don't know because I just didn't sense fear.
[8:59]I feel like there is that commonality when you're like, when you find out about people
[9:02]who do all these like terrifying things, like how can they do that?
[9:05]Like is it this?
[9:07]Is it, I don't know.
[9:08]Anyway, talk about that.
[9:09]And how do you, how are you on that scale now that you've worked through even more stuff?
[9:14]Yeah, it's so interesting.
[9:15]So forever, I, I solo travel a lot.
[9:19]So like the Brazilian rainforest to see Iguazu to slot canyons in Utah.
[9:25]And my friends always say, wow, you're so brave.
[9:29]And that never made sense to me because I didn't feel brave.
[9:33]It just felt like the thing to do, you know?
[9:35]So I always like had pinned that in my mind, huh?
[9:38]It's weird that people tell me that this is somehow a whole thing.
[9:43]I don't see it that way.
[9:44]And I was actually camping alone in Zion, which I don't want to get too much credit.
[9:50]Like I had a full size inflatable queen mattress.
[9:55]Like, you know, this wasn't like I was really roughing it, but I was.
[10:00]alone. And it never occurred to me. Oh, I'm a young woman in the middle of this campsite,
[10:05]but literally nothing to protect myself. Cool, good idea. But I decided I very quickly set fire
[10:12]to my stove, mostly because I had no experience. And so I just realized, okay, this is going to be
[10:18]a takeout camping situation. You know, I'm going to daily walk into town postmates to deliver to
[10:25]said, yes, exactly. And so I went to this cafe, ordered a burrito was just eavesdropping.
[10:32]I'm a big eavesdropper. If you're sitting next to me, like good luck, I'm listening to everything
[10:38]you're saying. And this father was explaining to his children. He was saying, you know, we're going to go
[10:44]canyon earring tomorrow. I've never been canyon earring. I don't know what to expect. So I've hired a guide.
[10:50]So even when you feel scared, you will be safe. We will be looking out for you. This guy has done
[10:57]it a million times. And it was like my brain exploded, melted every type of shock wave
[11:06]because never in my life had my parents told me that I was safe, would be protected,
[11:14]and that I wasn't doomed. It was quite the opposite. It was if you go to the bathroom in this
[11:20]restaurant, you might be raped or kidnapped. And in that moment, I realized, wow, the job of a
[11:27]parent probably is to provide safety. And that might account for why I do these things that are
[11:36]actually unsafe without thinking about them. And I walk through the world feeling that it's normal
[11:42]for your body to be 10 out of 10 stressed and worried that somebody is going to take you from the
[11:48]street. I was just always worried about my physical safety. But I thought it was normal.
[11:53]Wow. I'm sorry. Thank you. I can't believe the way your parents treated you. I know you've
[12:01]come to this resolution with your dad. And that was also like just really meaningful and like to
[12:06]watch you go through that, like grow with you and like, oh my gosh, like the goodness of your heart
[12:12]to like forgive and like how to get pushed to the point where you had to stop talking. I mean,
[12:17]it was really, I don't know, it's really powerful stuff. But just the idea that they could be so
[12:22]inconsistent and harmful and all of it. And even just watching the scenes with him where he would
[12:27]like switch on a dime like that and and like pretend like nothing happened. And yeah, it's just,
[12:33]it's really, really tough. It was a strange, you know, now how I look at it is obviously something
[12:39]happened to my parents. Now that I'm an adult and I take care of my best friends, three kids,
[12:45]she had three kids under three during the pandemic. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And she's my rock,
[12:51]she's my stability for the first time in our 15 year friendship. She called me and was like,
[12:57]dude, I need you to come over. Like I am outnumbered and I really need help. And it's such a blessing
[13:04]when a friend asks you for help because you feel needed. I felt like, oh my god, yay. Finally,
[13:10]I can like somewhat pay the debt of the wild amount of care she has given me. And one
[13:18]thing I did with her oldest daughter, Maya, is I would think of Maya in situations I had been in.
[13:24]So think of Maya, pin to the floor, her body being examined. What would adult need to
[13:31]adult me would start screaming, defend her, call the police. You know, what would I do if someone
[13:40]told Maya, she couldn't cry. She wasn't allowed to have feelings shot down her ideas. That
[13:46]was a big thing. I actually didn't write about any idea I had. I was told was terrible or useless
[13:51]or literally was ignored. Like, I like, I didn't say it. So I felt like I didn't exist.
[13:58]How I don't even know how you get these? Well, and then so I'd look at Maya. And I'd see,
[14:03]oh, that is so weird. No healthy adult would treat a child this way. You would listen, you would
[14:08]comfort. You would reflect back to them that they are present that you see them as an autonomous
[14:14]being. And so a lot of where my compassion for my parents come from is for them to hurt me to that
[14:22]extent. How hurt must they have been? To live in that reality they were living in must have been
[14:29]painful. Like, I know how painful it was for me. How painful was it for them? And so, you know,
[14:35]I mean, and I didn't come to forgiving them lightly. You know, my dad, I didn't talk to you
[14:40]for two years of the pandemic. My mom, I haven't talked to you for something like 15 or 17 years.
[14:46]With a lot of boundaries before I've come into this place. But I now sort of recognize
[14:52]however much I have suffered, they probably suffered a lot more. And it doesn't excuse how they
[14:59]treated me. But at the end of the day, I'm not to blame for how they treated me. But it is my
[15:06]responsibility now to take care of this and to move through it. No one else is going to do that work
[15:11]for me. So I've just sort of accepted it all. It all happened. I accept it and I have to work through
[15:18]it if I don't want to be beholden to the past. If I want any emotional freedom.
[15:23]Wow. You're like the most self-actualized person I have ever met. Don't worry. I basically had a
[15:31]mental breakdown two weeks ago. I like crying to my editor about how my life was like everything grew
[15:37]and releasing a book is a weird, I'm sure you know. It's just a weird thing. So I definitely have
[15:44]my moments. The difference now, though, is I know it. Like I can't always escape it in the moment.
[15:50]I can't always navigate my way out. But pretty quickly, I'm like, wow, I'm really sorry.
[15:57]I messed up there. And maybe we can work together and figuring out how I could be a better communicator.
[16:03]I'm not defensive anymore. Like it doesn't bother me if someone has feedback for me. I'm just like,
[16:08]oh cool. Another growth opportunity. Like don't love that I have it. But I can accept it.
[16:15]Wow. Wait, why were you breaking down two weeks? Yeah. You know, the pressure when I,
[16:19]when my first book came out, truly nobody knew who I was. I was an executive at Comedy Central. Nobody
[16:25]thought of me as a creative person. There were no expectations. We all thought the book would do
[16:29]like meh. And then I'd go back to being an executive and quite the opposite happened. And
[16:38]it was actually perfect timing when I was laid off because it was the beginning of promotion
[16:43]for lilies. Had I not had that, things would have been really bad. But I was able to quickly pivot
[16:49]and work on this thing that I loved, which was writing. And so I just think this time around,
[16:54]there are so many more expectations, particularly for my readers, you know, I love my readers.
[17:02]And sometimes I feel weird telling them how much I love them, except I'm like, there is such
[17:07]a lack of love in the world. Why would I be shy about telling anybody how much I see them, feel them,
[17:13]want to be there for them, like F that I want to be there with people and I really want to see them.
[17:19]And so I really want them to like the book. You know, I, I hadn't really ever thought about it before
[17:24]this moment where it's come out, but I wrote it for them. And so I, I just want to do them proud.
[17:32]I want this to be helpful. And that pressure didn't exist the first time around.
[17:38]Well, first of all, I bet you're going to get a lot of new readers as well.
[17:42]Because now it's a totally different market and you're coming out not just marketing to the
[17:46]same people. So you're not just talking to your readers. It's great that you love them. But I
[17:51]think this book is great. I think this is a standalone. You don't have to have read the first book.
[17:55]You can just dip into this and it builds on some of the themes, but it's different. You know,
[18:01]it's, it's different. And you still have your awesome voice. And you're like, capital letters
[18:06]thing. And you know, your funny jokes sprinkled throughout, like you had some joke about like,
[18:12]I'm not going to pay full price for a crop top because it's like I started the material.
[18:17]So funny. I mean, I can't stop thinking about that. As I like, you know,
[18:20]fold my daughter's crop tops. And I'm like, yeah, so true. Like, yeah, it's like buying half of
[18:26]the key to yours. But anyway, but I don't know. I think this is even more personal and even more
[18:33]powerful. I don't know. I love the first book, but I don't know. The humor offsets the pain enough.
[18:40]You know, yeah, I do think it's a much deeper book. You know, it really like, I'm talking about
[18:46]much darker things like suicidal ideation, but I'm trying to bring levity to it to something you
[18:53]think there could not possibly be levity to this except there is. And if we get so overburdened
[19:00]by how hard things are, it makes it very difficult to talk about to make changes with. And
[19:07]Lori Gottlieb, she blurb this book. And one of the first off, I'm obsessed with therapists,
[19:13]like, oh my God, they are doing God's work. They are so smart. She in particular is just so
[19:19]brilliant and insightful. And one of the things she said to me was, this is a standalone book,
[19:24]like it's not like you're rehashing anything. It's like a completely different journey. And when
[19:29]she said that to me, I was like, okay, well, Lori doesn't suffer fools lightly. And she's very smart.
[19:36]So, you know, in the fact that she a legit mental health professional season this book,
[19:44]actual strategies, you know, and that I can bring a little comedy to strategies. I feel really
[19:50]good about that. So, I guess take her saying it, not me, but that's fine. Well, it's both of you.
[19:56]No, I'm totally kidding. I'm not seriously. No, right.
[20:00]Like, but it's true. She's right. No, she's right.
[20:02]And you have people who you respect to tell you these things.
[20:06]I've just got it. Like, you know, she's mad or sorry. Yes, it's awesome.
[20:10]It is deeper and darker, but also brighter. Right. Is that the whole point?
[20:14]Right. Yeah. You can find lightness. Like, it's even when things are dark.
[20:18]It's not like the lightness went away. It could be obscured.
[20:23]You know, one of the central metaphors of the book is that we are made of
[20:27]star dust. And I think that's really important because first off,
[20:31]it's just true. The carbon and your muscles, the iron and your blood,
[20:36]literally come from stars. This isn't some cute, see thing I wrote on a mug,
[20:42]you know, and sold on Etsy. This is just science.
[20:46]And when I think about that, I think, well, nobody looks at the stars and says,
[20:51]they have moral failings and they didn't get there to do less done.
[20:54]And they have too many errands and they didn't run them.
[20:57]You know, we generally accept that stars are awesome.
[21:00]So if you can't think of yourself as awesome or inherently good or that your
[21:04]central self has any worth or value, you don't need to think about it.
[21:09]All you need to remember is I am made of stars.
[21:13]Just that framing alone has up levelled my whole life.
[21:17]When I really like sit and think about myself being full of star dust and
[21:22]it's really hard to pick yourself apart to be hypercritical and to be hypercritical
[21:28]of others because you recognize they too are made of star dust.
[21:33]And star dust is a miracle. So a lot of this is actually just reminding myself of
[21:38]the truth. That's not something that had to be made up that was just something
[21:42]that had to be internalized and remembered that we all really do have our
[21:47]own light within us. And it's about removing what obscures us.
[21:52]The trauma is the problems, the expectations, the obligations.
[21:56]It's about clearing the way so that you can shine on the way you were made to.
[22:03]Your book is like a big windshield wafer.
[22:05]I hope so that I use that sometimes just like, let's move that fog away.
[22:10]You know, and it's funny, I feel like there's a backlash to saying that
[22:14]anybody needs to fix themselves. And I have a backlash to the backlash,
[22:19]which is what are you talking about?
[22:22]You're like, we obviously like look at this world's obviously get damaged by
[22:29]things that are so beyond our control. And that doesn't make us bad.
[22:34]That's the key. You could be damaged and still an awesome soul at the bottom of
[22:39]that damage. But I'm not quite sure why it's helpful not to admit that
[22:44]things might have happened to your outer shells. You know,
[22:48]things were the of being taken care of because I find it so cheesy when people
[22:53]say you are inherently good. But then don't tell me anything about why that is.
[23:00]You know, so the star metaphor knowing that I am good, like physically,
[23:06]it's just true. I'm knowing that it is okay that my outside shells were
[23:11]damaged. The stardust can never be. The stardust is what can never ever be
[23:17]messed with. It's there. It's just fixing and healing what's on top of that.
[23:23]Very powerful. It's really, it's awesome. It's an it's amazing. You've been
[23:29]able to not only clear your own stuff out of the way, but to help so many other
[23:34]people clear theirs out. I mean, that's so generous of you. It's just so
[23:38]generous and really awesome. It's a funny piece. I'm sure you know this.
[23:43]People ask me all the time, was it cathartic writing the book?
[23:46]Was it a feel like a form of therapy? And the answer to that would be no
[23:50]because in order to write these scenes in a narrative, if you haven't read my
[23:55]work, it's never prescriptive. It's never like coming to you from on a high.
[24:00]I try to paint a narrative like as if it were fiction. Here's the scene.
[24:05]I want you to be in it. I want you to feel those emotions, which means I have
[24:09]to revisit my own traumas over and over and over again in the editing
[24:13]process. And it never gets better. It never gets easier. It's always very
[24:19]difficult. And I would say that by putting out in the world, it's dissipated.
[24:27]I feel like every reader now carries a little piece of my burden. And I carry
[24:33]a little of theirs because they tell me, oh, I really relate. That sounded like
[24:37]you were in my brain. How did you know that about me? And so that's how I found
[24:42]it to be very cathartic is that we're all spreading. This burden of the worst
[24:48]things that ever happened to us so that none of us have to just shoulder it alone.
[24:53]Have you met David Ambrose in LA by the way? No, but the name is super
[24:57]familiar. You have, I haven't introduced you on email after this because he
[25:01]grew up in the foster care system and had a really horrific childhood with his
[25:07]siblings and everything, but wrote about it in a book. And he's funny and
[25:11]charming and like works at Disney. And you know, he's like, I just feel like you
[25:15]guys would really get along and have a lot to catch up on. I would love to meet
[25:20]any the foster care system is so dismal of all the embarrassing things in
[25:25]America. That's like top two, you know, hundreds of thousands of children
[25:31]suffering with no advocates at all. I'd really love to meet him and hear more
[25:35]about that. Yeah, it's because it's called a place called home. All right, I'll put you
[25:38]in touch. Yeah. Thank you, Tara. This is so great. Thanks for your book. I
[25:43]read it at like a perfect time for me personally, for whatever reasons. But
[25:46]anyway, thank you. Do not worry about it coming out. I'm not worried at all on
[25:51]your behalf, but thank you. Thank you all the best. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you
[25:55]for all the work you do advocating for writers to bring the pandemic. You were
[25:59]like the lifeline. Truly for anyone who had myself included for anyone who
[26:03]had a book coming out when everything was getting canceled and you
[26:06]nobody knew what to do. You were like, okay, we're gonna figure this out. We're
[26:11]gonna be doing some lives. We're gonna be doing our podcast. We're gonna be doing
[26:14]events. So I really admire the way you really stepped in there for for writers.
[26:18]Thank you. Thanks. I don't know. I didn't know what else to do. I was like, I've got to have
[26:23]some purpose here. The world is like fall down, right? You know, like right. Let me focus on
[26:28]something. I'll see you at our vote. Yes. Thank you, Zibi. Okay. Bye. Bye.
[26:34]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[26:37]Forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:42]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[26:47]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact,
[26:51]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[26:55]this fantastic intro and out trim music.