Amerie, YOU WILL DO GREAT THINGS
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction and
[0:21]memoir.
[0:22]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle
[0:31]features.
[0:32]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes.
[0:34]It's a B-Classist.com.
[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018.
[0:54]And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Emory is the author of You Will Do Great Things.
[1:06]She is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, and writer.
[1:10]The daughter of a Korean artist and an African American military officer, Emory was born
[1:15]in Massachusetts, raised all over the world, and graduated from Georgetown University with
[1:20]a bachelor's in English.
[1:21]She is the editor of the New York Times Bestseller because you love to hate me, a junior
[1:26]library guild selection, and recently founded Emory's Book Club, a book club that highlights
[1:30]diverse and unique perspectives and voices.
[1:33]She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and son.
[1:35]Hi.
[1:36]Did you love your life, Rebbe?
[1:38]Oh, I love your life, Emory.
[1:40]Oh my gosh, where are you?
[1:42]That's gorgeous.
[1:43]This is my library.
[1:44]It's my house.
[1:45]But it's my library in the house.
[1:48]It's my library in my house.
[1:49]A library.
[1:50]It goes all the way around.
[1:51]I love it.
[1:52]Yeah.
[1:53]So when you call her code, your books like that, how are you?
[1:56]And I'm sure you know where you put everything, but it's obviously cloud out, it's maybe
[2:01]not.
[2:02]You know where everything is, or do you just remember even though the genres and the
[2:06]nonfiction is mixed up, I don't, sorting at home by genre is not, I've never done that
[2:12]before.
[2:13]It's only just been like a mishmash of basically the order of which I read it.
[2:17]And a couple of years ago, I actually, when I had COVID right in the beginning, I was
[2:21]like alone for so many days, I just like took every book off of all the shelves and put
[2:27]them all in the floor.
[2:28]And then I started putting them back and I was like, let me try a white shelf, let me
[2:33]try a green shelf, let me check what would that look like, and I just kept going and going.
[2:37]And I was like, I'll just sit with it for a bit.
[2:39]Anyway, that was like three years ago, but yeah, yeah, I actually love doing shelves.
[2:45]That's actually me ranking the shelves is like, it's just so therapeutic for me.
[2:49]I'll still do that like every few nights, I'll go in and be like, okay, do you want to
[2:53]move to see here?
[2:54]This is the reading pile over there.
[2:55]Do you want to do that?
[2:56]I do have a bunch of genres.
[2:57]So it's like classics, short stories, graphic novels, literary fiction, literary fiction.
[3:04]It's more slipstream, speculative, straight up SFF, YA, little children section, that
[3:11]favorite childhood favorites, coffee table, books, maps and things like that, nonfiction
[3:16]with the nonfiction like science, spirituality, world history, sociology, type stuff.
[3:24]So it's like, wow, how do you, I actually just opened a bookstore.
[3:29]So I've actually been trying to, I have a whole new system for my bookstore too.
[3:32]I have that all started by emotion and by the type of topic.
[3:37]So each shelf is like, make you cry, Brooks, and make you tremble, like coming of age,
[3:42]coming to the middle age, you know, books for the foodie, books for the traveler, books
[3:45]for your sister.
[3:46]You know, so you can easily gift, and you can actually find, but apparently book categorization
[3:52]this whole time, so that's, that's awesome for me.
[3:55]You were asking, how do I find something?
[3:57]Well, what do you do if you have like, if you get another five books and like your shelf
[4:02]is full and the other shelves near it are, are full where do they go?
[4:06]So I have other shelves in other places, but there's another bookshelf there.
[4:10]So usually if I get like, ARCs for advanced reading copies for the book club, girls
[4:15]are back there.
[4:16]Books that are like, you know, headings for long term, are you going to read these or not?
[4:19]Do a few flows or not?
[4:21]They are on shelves in other shelf back there.
[4:24]Then I have like a whole YA shelf there, if there, there are spaces and what I'll do
[4:29]is I try to make sure if there's questionable choices, questionable books, those get filtered
[4:36]in and out.
[4:37]But also, like let's just say there's a big long series where I read this, we'll not revisit
[4:41]it.
[4:42]Don't necessarily need to look at it for any particular reason.
[4:44]I start talking them in the back, so the back has a lot of interest though.
[4:49]But you don't want to lie a book down like this.
[4:51]I learned that the hard way because the spine will start pulling away.
[4:54]So you have to be like that or like this, but never like that, never like, it's the
[5:00]glue.
[5:01]It can't hold on for years.
[5:02]It can't.
[5:03]Who knew?
[5:04]Yeah.
[5:05]This is amazing.
[5:06]We could go on forever.
[5:07]I actually, so outside this door, because this whole room is now basically full except
[5:10]shelves where I'm evaluating books up like here and over there, I have a library cart.
[5:14]So I have like all my ARCs are outside in this library cart situation.
[5:18]I'm on my very, very car.
[5:20]You should get one.
[5:21]Yes.
[5:22]Yeah.
[5:23]You should get one.
[5:24]The ARCs on library cart is such a great, you know, fitting place for them to be.
[5:30]Yes.
[5:31]You should get one.
[5:32]Amazon or Uline has them.
[5:34]I have one in LA and my store too that's blue.
[5:36]It kind of matches the store aesthetic, which is all like blue and white and tan and stuff.
[5:40]And then here, the one here is like, you know, kind of like a grayish, like a real institutional
[5:45]looking giant library cart.
[5:47]I am so happy.
[5:49]I have to get her first, I'm like, what?
[5:53]Oh, my memories, I used to work at the library too, so I could shell books.
[5:58]They were like, you're not very good at this.
[6:00]I'm like, I just keep reading down.
[6:02]I was like, I'm sorry, it doesn't look so long, but yeah, I did not know that.
[6:06]I never would have thought about that.
[6:08]Thank you for that tip.
[6:09]No problem.
[6:10]I'm getting one.
[6:11]Wait, when did you work at a library?
[6:12]We'll just make this whole thing the interview by the way, because that's basically, all
[6:15]right, everybody's just chatting.
[6:17]We'll get to your children's back, which I'm so excited about, but when did you win in
[6:22]your life?
[6:23]Did you work in a library?
[6:24]And like, when did you develop this passion for books?
[6:26]That was why we're just in the library at Georgetown.
[6:29]So it's one of those student jobs that I had.
[6:31]And I was, I loved it because I would also go to the library to record music.
[6:35]You know, my friend and I would figure out the way to use the audio visual room to record
[6:39]like really, really early, like demo type stuff.
[6:42]And then I ended up getting a job at the library.
[6:45]And I'm just sorting.
[6:46]But I could never get to my cars because I mean, you're not only looking at books that
[6:49]you're interested in, but mostly books that you would never just think to come across.
[6:53]So you just explore.
[6:55]And so I would pick up so many, I mean, it was impossible.
[6:58]They were probably like, what's really going on?
[7:00]I like it.
[7:01]Why is it?
[7:02]She's so slow.
[7:03]Can you ask me once?
[7:04]Are you having a hard time navigating?
[7:05]I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[7:10]they're like, we thought you couldn't alphabetize and you're like, I've read like all the
[7:13]PhD books over here, like, what are you talking about?
[7:16]It was so wonderful.
[7:18]But being a reader, I've been a reader all my life, like when I was little and then like,
[7:23]what's your hobby?
[7:24]Mine was always reading and writing.
[7:26]And I started writing when I was seven and I would staple them together and, you know,
[7:30]make them like write the back smotzes, the back flapping, all of that.
[7:36]Like I was very into it.
[7:38]That is awesome.
[7:39]Do you feel like you had someone, this is my new theory, that people who become writers
[7:43]in some way always have at least one person early on who says, like, you have talent
[7:47]or like a teacher, an English teacher who says, like, you know what, like, that's a really
[7:52]amazing story.
[7:53]Like you should think about doing this more, there has to be some, there doesn't have
[7:56]to be.
[7:57]There is often some person who is a huge advocate early on.
[8:00]Did you have that person?
[8:01]Oh, my parents were, you know, big readers, you know, they're, they've always been big
[8:06]readers.
[8:07]So of course they've nurtured that and taken to the library.
[8:09]But when I was writing, just because that's what I wanted to do.
[8:11]I just would do that.
[8:12]You know what I mean?
[8:13]I'm not writing a story.
[8:14]It's when I was a kid, I would check out everything from the school library or it was
[8:19]not actually the school library, that too.
[8:21]But the military based library, so I would go there and I was like in second grade and
[8:28]I've got a huge stack.
[8:30]I would always ask, what's the maximum that we can, you know, how many books can we check
[8:33]out?
[8:34]There were a lot, like 10 or 15, they could let you take 10 or 15 this time.
[8:37]And it would be Amelia Bedelia, Mary Poppins, Miss Tigelwigel, Nostradamus, you know,
[8:43]which is wicked, whatever, all kinds of like, it just like, in the same pile.
[8:49]And my parents would just let me read what I wanted to.
[8:52]So it would be a lot of children's books, but a lot of adult books, but not the adult
[8:56]books that are like fiction.
[8:57]It would be literally like Nostradamus's prophecies of the apocalypse and how to, as
[9:03]esoteric stuff, like how to levitate and out-of-body experiences go out of class.
[9:07]So they're finally, what I'm like, yes, because they were literally, what I was reading,
[9:11]because I would sit there with like a volleyball, like trying to move it with my, yes, and
[9:17]my mom, you know, I was reading like my mom's, you know, like hardcover family saga drama
[9:24]with like all these like reds, like seats and stuff and like totally inappropriate, but
[9:29]I like read all the books for people in my age, you know.
[9:32]Yes.
[9:33]There's like so many interesting things out there.
[9:35]I remember when my dad said, okay, you can read all this, but you can't read that.
[9:41]And that, it by Stephen King, and I, of course, you know, if I see the show gun, I see
[9:46]all these other books.
[9:47]I'm like, what's that?
[9:48]It's like a claw on the cover and it looks scary.
[9:52]And I got it when under the bed, you know, in other words, and I traumatized myself.
[9:58]I was so traumatized.
[10:00]I don't scare me until I was like in high school because of those few pages of the red
[10:05]slick, the yellow slicker, and you know what I used to ask him, Billy, is it to come
[10:09]down the drain?
[10:10]I mean, I was scared of drains.
[10:13]I was like, my son who's Abe saw a little clip of it, something with a clown on YouTube
[10:20]at one point, and he has basically slept in my bed for the last three years.
[10:23]And he's still like, when he's in the bathroom, like, fleshes really quickly and
[10:26]then runs out.
[10:28]Listen.
[10:29]I stopped jumping in the bed, maybe five years ago.
[10:35]Up until five years ago, I always would come to the bed and hop in, because I was traumatized
[10:42]from when I was a kid watching poltergeist and the clown walk all the arms from over
[10:48]that part.
[10:50]I mean, I literally, I noticed I stopped doing that, I lost from that fear, but about five
[10:55]years ago, and I'm telling you since I was a kid until five years ago, I would hop in
[10:59]in the bed, because I didn't, and I would make sure like my hair wasn't hanging over
[11:01]the bed.
[11:02]And also if I washed my face, it was really fast, because I would think about Candyman
[11:07]or Bloody Mary and all that stuff.
[11:09]Yeah.
[11:10]It was very scary.
[11:12]Very scary.
[11:13]Wait.
[11:14]So then how?
[11:15]So you grow up, you become an artist, just by the way, that my whole team and I were
[11:19]just listening to one thing downstairs.
[11:21]I'm all dancing, everybody was like dancing on table, just so you know, even my son,
[11:26]he's two natures.
[11:27]Awesome.
[11:28]So tell me about the development of that and how books sort of kept being a throughline
[11:32]to your life and then the culmination of the book club and of course the children's
[11:36]back.
[11:37]Well, you know, when I reading and writing was something that I was lucky to do, but it
[11:41]was not something that I was thinking, oh, I would do this professionally.
[11:45]So you know, even when I was about to go to college, I was thinking, oh, I will, I don't
[11:50]know, but I don't know what do people do.
[11:51]You have a professor maybe, or maybe I'll be a lawyer.
[11:53]My mom was always talking about being a professor or a lawyer.
[11:58]I was like, okay, yeah, that kind of thing.
[12:00]Oh, computer science, my dad was like science, computers are the future.
[12:04]So I was like, okay, you get a job in computer science.
[12:07]I'm like, am I really, I love using this chat room stuff, Daddy.
[12:13]I don't know if I really want to be a programmer.
[12:15]I knew a kid, a friend of mine, her little brother, who at a very young age was like
[12:20]into programming.
[12:21]And I'm talking about when the screen was like Apple spinach green and I was like,
[12:26]yeah, that's more his thing, but I'll do it because jobs.
[12:29]And so I went to college, right before I went to college though, I was like, actually,
[12:34]I think I'm going to pursue being a recording artist, like I, that's what I want to do.
[12:39]But I'll still finish what I began my academics.
[12:41]I will go to university in the meantime, I'll get my degree.
[12:45]And I'll go somewhere like culturally rich close to New York, but a great school.
[12:51]And so I can do everything that I wanted to do regarding academics, but also start working
[12:55]on that demo, start making connections.
[12:57]And so that's why I chose Georgetown because it was in DC, you know, culturally very rich.
[13:01]There's so many things there, great school close to New York.
[13:05]And while I was there, I was kind of like not very present because I was just always
[13:12]in my head thinking about one day when I become a singer.
[13:15]So I mean, I would work in the library.
[13:17]That was the only time that the spell was broken because when I was at the library, I was
[13:22]reading the books that we were shelving.
[13:24]And at any other time, working any other jobs, I was like, listen to the headphones.
[13:28]If this was my video, it would be like this, oh, what if this was my song?
[13:31]How would I do the video?
[13:32]It would be like that.
[13:33]So people just always knew me as doing that.
[13:35]It's funny because Rachel Yoder, who was the name Emory's book of selection, I didn't realize
[13:41]we went to Georgetown at the same time.
[13:43]We had like a culture that I think we had sociology together, but she was always singing
[13:46]all the time.
[13:47]And I was like, see, that's just, that's what I was doing all the time.
[13:51]It wasn't until I later, like after I became a professional recording artist, you know,
[13:57]professional singer songwriter, that I felt like something was missing and it took many years
[14:03]for me to come back to writing because during college, you know, you just reading everything
[14:07]you're supposed to be reading, you know, you're just, you're just, you're, and I'm focused
[14:10]on other things.
[14:11]So I didn't really read as much as the first time in my life that I really stopped reading.
[14:14]And then after that, I got into the bottom nonfiction.
[14:17]So I was just reading nonfiction for like seven or something year straight.
[14:20]And then it was, I was going on tour and some of them record company gifted me like
[14:26]some candles.
[14:27]I was like, here's your first tour, you're going to need some self care and all that.
[14:31]Here are some candles and here are two books called Harry Potter.
[14:35]I'm like, okay, it gets books, all right, I don't know about this, but okay.
[14:42]And I just read it.
[14:43]I was like, wow, I remember this feeling, it's been so long.
[14:49]I had them on the tour bus and I zipped through those books and it's like, I remembered
[14:53]what it was like to read when I was a kid and zipping and loving story and being immersed
[14:58]in the world.
[14:59]I remembered and then that kind of opened the floodgates again and I started reading again,
[15:06]still reading a lot of nonfiction, but really it was mostly, it became mostly fiction.
[15:11]And I just devoured everything.
[15:13]And then after a while, you know, I would have a book with me everywhere we went, radio
[15:16]stations, waiting book interviews, waiting book, but then I started feeling like, you
[15:22]know, something I remember telling my husband, I feel like something's missing and he's
[15:26]like, what?
[15:27]And I was like, I don't know.
[15:28]So I'm going to just throw some things out and do some word associations.
[15:31]But what I'm feeling is like sitting down or just something insular, I was like a paper,
[15:39]stacks of paper.
[15:41]I miss paper, like the feel of it.
[15:43]I loved paper, you know, like all writers love paper, bookish people love paper, pencils,
[15:48]like you're like, I don't know what you're describing as like an office job and I'm like,
[15:53]no, that's like writing.
[15:55]I was like, I think it's writing.
[15:56]I miss books, I miss pages and pages of paper and notes and I miss that stuff.
[16:04]And then I just started to write, I was like, you know what, I'm going to just write
[16:07]something.
[16:08]I've always been supposed to pop up to stuff.
[16:10]I'm always trying to like put it in my music videos and people are like, oh, I noticed
[16:14]that.
[16:15]Like you didn't notice the tomb of the ones.
[16:16]Did you see that environment?
[16:17]Like it was a hit, the things that like regressed and they're like, oh, you know, I get
[16:22]it that you mentioned it.
[16:23]And I was like, I have to be able to put it out in a more full way.
[16:26]And that's when I decided to just start.
[16:29]And then when I started, it was like, it was kind of hilarious.
[16:32]It was like this really long prologue and it started out with where I guess I left off
[16:38]with a lot of things.
[16:39]Right?
[16:40]So it was like in a land where somebody, something, we're smoking in a cloak and the eyes
[16:45]of men.
[16:46]And it's like, it's a long, I think, yeah, it's a long, long, long, long, long, long story
[16:51]short.
[16:52]That wasn't the book that I ended up clearing my agent with.
[16:54]And I wrote other things, I don't have to boot camp myself.
[16:58]And for like that first year and a half, I didn't do any music.
[17:01]And I was just like, I'm going to write all day every day because I feel like behind
[17:05]this game, I just very late and I did that for literally 16 to 20 hours a day.
[17:13]What?
[17:14]Right team.
[17:15]No, I was obsessed.
[17:16]I was like, yeah, you guys have written like 20 books.
[17:18]How many books did you write?
[17:19]I wrote something that I was revising.
[17:21]Okay.
[17:22]I think I wrote like two, but I was writing all the time, but they were like really big
[17:25]books.
[17:26]So it was like a science fiction fantasy first book series and like another one that
[17:30]was like took place on earth.
[17:32]But I was like writing, writing, writing, writing, doing a lot of reading and a lot of revising.
[17:39]But I wrote all the time, all the time, like I was like, that was great, but I was
[17:44]like, it wasn't healthy.
[17:45]It was a good year.
[17:46]It would have been impossible to do as a parent, you know, so I wasn't a parent yet.
[17:51]And I'd taken like a year off doing any music.
[17:54]That's what I did.
[17:55]Like, that's what I did all day, like not like those are job.
[17:57]I was in a obsession because I am, I do have a compulsion when it comes to writing and
[18:01]creating in general.
[18:04]And so that I did that.
[18:05]So that might happen.
[18:06]Okay.
[18:07]So then after I wrote and I found my agent, I queried her.
[18:10]I looked up like how to find agents, what do they represent?
[18:13]I internet stalked her essentially because I wanted to see like everything about her.
[18:17]You know, I guess far as like, what did she into, but like, oh, this, also she used to
[18:21]work here.
[18:22]And then she did this.
[18:23]Oh, that's pretty good.
[18:24]And she is the like one of the smartest people that I know.
[18:27]And I wasn't even surprised when she started her own agency because I could see that
[18:31]in just like how she was coming up.
[18:34]And yeah, she was amazing.
[18:36]And so now fast forward at the children's book coming out and I have an adult, but I
[18:43]can't, that's what's announced that yet.
[18:44]Well, okay.
[18:45]I got something and I guess I should say I have something in the works that basically means
[18:49]I've been writing adult books as well.
[18:52]Just haven't talked about it yet.
[18:54]But something's coming down the line soon.
[18:57]And more picture books as well.
[18:59]So I'm so excited.
[19:00]I'm creating all the time and no music.
[19:03]And I want to put together a tour.
[19:04]Oh, my God.
[19:05]The one thing I have to do all the time though is right.
[19:06]I do have to write and my husband knows that if I don't write, I get grouchy.
[19:10]So we'll literally be in a hotel lobby, whatever's going on, we do sound check.
[19:14]They're like, oh, did she want to do this?
[19:15]Like, she wants to get back to the room and write because if she doesn't, she's going to
[19:18]be cranky.
[19:19]And yeah, that's something that I, I'm never like, not doing.
[19:25]That's amazing.
[19:26]That is so cool.
[19:27]So you had eight zillion ideas.
[19:29]You could have had your first children's book really be anything.
[19:32]Why this?
[19:33]Tell listeners about the book and everything else.
[19:36]The reason, well, you will do great things ended up being the first book because it ended
[19:40]up being the first thing that I really, really wanted to say.
[19:42]Like I felt compelled to say it.
[19:44]And that's because, you know, we've been reading to my son since he was in the womb.
[19:48]He has always been surrounded by books.
[19:50]We've always read to him.
[19:51]We'll always start with the title, we see who the author is, illustrated by, that's very
[19:56]important that we do that.
[19:57]And just so he knows that this is something that's,
[20:00]I was created and this is who created the work, right?
[20:03]But when he got here, there were just some things
[20:07]that I really wanted to tell him about life.
[20:09]So everything that I wanted to say in that moment
[20:13]is all there about life being this amazing journey
[20:16]and that there will be, of course ups and downs.
[20:19]And, but I also wanted to tell him too
[20:22]that there were certain things about himself
[20:23]that were gonna be just so amazing
[20:25]and wonderful characteristics.
[20:27]But sometimes, whether it's something that he thought
[20:30]or whether it's something that,
[20:32]and the manner he carried himself,
[20:34]there would be things that people wouldn't understand.
[20:36]And it's very important to me to let him know
[20:38]that those are things that he should keep
[20:40]and to be strong in yourself, to be an individual,
[20:43]also to know that whatever happens in life,
[20:46]you may feel very excited about something,
[20:48]but then you get a little loss along the way.
[20:50]It was very important to me to let him know that
[20:53]if you just be still and listen to your inner voice,
[20:57]you'll know what to do, because I have a big believer
[21:00]in when we come to this life,
[21:02]everyone is pretty much equipped
[21:04]with what they need to get through.
[21:05]We come equipped, we can learn new things, of course,
[21:08]but the essential things that we need, we do have.
[21:11]And I think oftentimes, even as adults,
[21:13]and we ask people for advice, friends, family,
[21:17]oftentimes we're just looking for permission
[21:20]to do the thing that we kind of feel like we already know
[21:22]that we need to do anyway.
[21:23]We just need someone to say, we need the permission.
[21:26]And I wanted him to know that you don't need that.
[21:28]Guided is great, but if you feel loss and you feel alone,
[21:32]you have fundamentally you have what you need.
[21:36]And that was an important message,
[21:38]but it was also important to me that he also
[21:39]see in those pages himself reflected,
[21:41]I think it's important for all kids to see themselves,
[21:44]but also see the array, the diversity that we have.
[21:48]So we understand that what the world looks like,
[21:51]so our libraries should reflect that,
[21:53]especially as children, because it is so easy to be other.
[21:56]I didn't realize that I'd other than,
[21:58]other than myself or been other,
[22:00]but I had internalized that,
[22:03]even though it was a military brat,
[22:04]even though it was growing up around kids who came
[22:07]from all parts of the world and were mixed with all kinds
[22:10]of things that you don't normally see in your average town,
[22:15]all kinds of people think, oh, Korean and black,
[22:17]but it's like, that's actually quite common.
[22:20]You have Simone and Mexican, Guamanian,
[22:23]and Panamanian, and you have an array of people,
[22:26]and it was never a big deal,
[22:27]but even having that very strong environment
[22:30]in which I didn't actually even think about race
[22:32]until I was like 12.
[22:34]So we moved to Texas actually, you know,
[22:36]although that was not something on my radar,
[22:39]I had internalized the idea that I wasn't in stories
[22:44]that someone who looked like me was not just born in books.
[22:48]And you internalize a lot of things as a kid.
[22:50]You don't realize, I would write newsletters
[22:51]that were like these fake newspapers,
[22:53]and I'm like eight years old, right?
[22:56]Creating this news letter program on the computer.
[23:00]All the news was like these horrific things,
[23:02]a bus explodes and crashes everyone dies.
[23:05]And it was all this negative stuff.
[23:06]And I was looking at it, I was like, no one told me,
[23:08]this is what it should be.
[23:09]But as a child, my observations of the world
[23:12]was that when things are on the news,
[23:14]they're really bad and people die.
[23:16]So kids internalized everything,
[23:18]and my internalization regarding books
[23:20]and my identity, which I didn't even think about,
[23:23]I did not go thinking like, oh, I'm Korean and black,
[23:25]and this is like interesting.
[23:26]It's just, oh, there's Korean food with kimchi, mommy,
[23:29]and everyone's mixed up, everyone's something.
[23:31]It's not even a big deal.
[23:32]But still like when it comes to books though, like,
[23:34]oh no, you're not in there.
[23:36]They're all like usually white and blonde.
[23:38]And that was something that I actually dealt with
[23:42]for a long time, even after high school, actually.
[23:46]I didn't put myself in anything.
[23:49]It's not what I saw in my mind.
[23:52]So I think it's very important for kids to see themselves,
[23:56]because I think that one of the biggest lessons
[23:58]we can learn, people think kids need to have this lesson.
[24:02]You don't have to give kids lessons.
[24:04]Whatever you show, though, they are actually learning
[24:08]by just being and witnessing.
[24:10]And so when you have a librarian,
[24:11]which you have kids seeing themselves
[24:14]and seeing all kinds of different kids,
[24:16]different situations, families,
[24:18]your disabilities, whatever in the case may be,
[24:21]what they internalize is the world is very mixed up.
[24:25]Everyone's different, everyone, but we're mostly the same.
[24:27]And how it looks, doesn't really matter.
[24:29]You don't have to give them a lesson for that.
[24:32]You don't have to try to tell them.
[24:34]You are, you know, this is what the world is telling you,
[24:37]but you look like this and this is what you should do
[24:38]to be sure, you don't have to sum any of that,
[24:40]because they're gonna make their own assumptions
[24:43]about life and their observations, just by showing them.
[24:46]So I think that's actually one of the best ways
[24:48]we can foster not even like acceptance,
[24:51]because if a kid just sees that,
[24:53]what are they really accepting?
[24:54]They're just like, they don't accept that the sky is blue.
[24:57]They don't accept that the grass is green.
[24:58]It just is.
[24:59]And different people, different cultures,
[25:02]people just are.
[25:03]And that's, that's like, that's a no-brainer.
[25:06]You know, and I think that that was important to me.
[25:09]No, it is important to me.
[25:10]I mean, literature should reflect reality.
[25:12]Like, I mean, I live in New York City,
[25:14]where like, I mean, there's, it's,
[25:16]you can't walk two feet without finding different languages
[25:20]and different everything.
[25:21]So yeah, of course, we should have everybody feel reflected.
[25:25]So that's wonderful.
[25:25]How does your son know?
[25:26]He is four.
[25:27]No, it's a case four years older.
[25:29]He saw, when he saw the copies of,
[25:31]you will do great things on the desk.
[25:34]He was like, well,
[25:35]you won't do great things released.
[25:37]And I was like, not yet, almost.
[25:39]But and I was like, you have kids
[25:41]that should do great memory.
[25:43]It's like, what are brains where before they go,
[25:44]all this other stuff happens?
[25:45]What are they?
[25:46]They remember everything.
[25:48]And I was so excited just to see him, see the book.
[25:53]He knows it's inspired by him.
[25:54]He knows it's for him.
[25:56]The child was wearing one of the outfits
[25:58]that he was wearing sometimes,
[26:00]that he'd be wearing sometimes,
[26:02]and just sit it on his bookshelf.
[26:04]Because we were reading as such a big part of one
[26:06]of the things that we do our night.
[26:08]It's a bedtime routine is long.
[26:09]Look, our bedtime routines like 45 minutes,
[26:11]is less of a routine and more bedtime.
[26:14]Yes.
[26:15]And from chat, that's all we're reading these books.
[26:17]We're going through different things.
[26:18]And just to see it there was,
[26:20]meant a lot to me.
[26:22]That's amazing.
[26:22]I had a children's foot come out last year.
[26:25]And I felt the same way.
[26:26]Oh, I never had a shit.
[26:27]And I'm like, I've read 8,000 books at least.
[26:29]That it, I mean, so many books.
[26:31]It's all we've done since,
[26:32]and my older kids are almost 16 now.
[26:34]I have four kids.
[26:35]And then I finally,
[26:36]I was like, finally, for the youngest kid,
[26:38]I have a book that's like age for a race.
[26:41]It's so amazing.
[26:42]Congratulations.
[26:43]No, thanks.
[26:44]Thank you.
[26:45]What's the name of the book?
[26:46]It's called Princess Charming.
[26:47]It's about a girl who just,
[26:51]she's not particularly great at anything,
[26:53]but she just never gives up.
[26:54]And she realizes that's her superpower.
[26:56]So I love that.
[26:58]I love that.
[26:59]I love that.
[26:59]I'm based on my daughter,
[27:01]not that she's not good at anything,
[27:02]but it's sort of based on her persistence and all that.
[27:05]And she was dedicated to her.
[27:06]And she also was like, oh my gosh, she's so funny.
[27:10]Wait, quickly, tell me more about the book club.
[27:12]So exciting.
[27:13]I was going through all of your picks,
[27:14]several of which have been authors
[27:16]have been on my podcast.
[27:17]Also, how do you pick?
[27:19]Like, when did you, how long ago did you start it?
[27:20]And what does it mean to be a member?
[27:22]And how can people join?
[27:24]Well, the joining part is really just showing up.
[27:27]So Amra's book club,
[27:28]you follow along as the selection,
[27:31]you can go to Amra's book club.com.
[27:33]You can also, for the most part,
[27:34]it lives on IG.
[27:35]So you can also go to Instagram.
[27:37]We have the at Amra's book club handle,
[27:40]but the conversations are on my own personal account.
[27:44]And I mentioned that we'll probably be moving it over,
[27:46]but for now, we just do it that way
[27:48]and it works really well.
[27:49]And essentially, I choose a selection
[27:51]at the beginning of every month.
[27:52]And then we, you know, amplify that book.
[27:56]Because of course, I want to really just get the book
[27:57]into as many hands as possible.
[27:59]We amplify the book throughout the month.
[28:00]We also have like an author check-in video
[28:02]that's from the author in the middle of a month,
[28:04]where they either tell us three things
[28:06]that we need to know about the book
[28:08]or why they wrote this book, some kind of tidbit
[28:11]to just kind of pitch it to readers again,
[28:13]in case they haven't joined us yet.
[28:14]And at the end of the month,
[28:15]we have an Instagram live conversation,
[28:18]which has been a lot of fun.
[28:20]It was actually Jonathan Franzen's first time
[28:22]coming using Instagram.
[28:24]And it was like, we had technical difficulties and everything,
[28:28]but it was really amazing.
[28:29]And it was great.
[28:31]But essentially, it's just,
[28:34]I really love to talk books.
[28:37]And so Emory's book club is all about
[28:39]amplifying unique perspectives, diverse voices.
[28:43]And when I say diverse voices,
[28:44]it doesn't mean that there won't be any white
[28:46]straight guys on there.
[28:47]I mean diverse, meaning we're gonna run the gamut.
[28:50]You're gonna have everyone that I want to share with you,
[28:53]like any of the books.
[28:54]And they will come from different viewpoints,
[28:57]different people, different identities.
[28:58]I just like to keep it very diverse, basically.
[29:03]Which is why Jonathan Franzen looks at it.
[29:04]So most people were like,
[29:05]Jonathan Franzen, I'm like, look, it's about,
[29:07]I don't use it meaning this is a diverse book.
[29:09]I never like it when people use that term
[29:11]when they're saying, this is a diverse read.
[29:14]It's like books can have diversity in them,
[29:17]but it is not a diverse, you're adjectiveing it wrong.
[29:21]The adjective is, I don't know,
[29:23]you're turning into this like other thing.
[29:25]But I am big, we haven't had anyone that's like,
[29:28]you know, actually we have our most recent,
[29:31]most recent book choice was the hard road out.
[29:35]One woman escaped from North Korea.
[29:37]And she can talk, actually is North Korean.
[29:40]She lives in the UK now.
[29:41]She actually is a member of the conservative party.
[29:43]So we actually, you know, we do have those voices.
[29:46]And I think it's really important to hear different accounts
[29:51]from different people, different perspectives.
[29:54]Because it's very easy, especially these days
[29:57]to become siloed in our own bubbles.
[29:59]And growing me.
[30:00]forcing what we think, but I think one, what we have to get back to, I think, is that
[30:06]whole, remember when I was all like tolerance and then tolerance became the bad word
[30:11]and it became acceptance? And I'm like, I think we need to go back to tolerance, guys.
[30:15]I think we need to go back to tolerance because it doesn't tend to, can't make someone
[30:18]accept anything, your viewpoint, anything. What we can do is tolerate differences and accept
[30:24]those things that we want to, but it's still important to hear and listen to different experiences.
[30:29]And that was an interesting one because I did see some people say, whoa, she's
[30:32]safe in North Korea, she's a refugee, and then she became a member of the Confederate Party.
[30:37]I don't really understand. And I was like, if you think, if you actually put yourself
[30:41]in her shoes, get out of your perspective and think about the things that she had to deal with,
[30:46]which was government, too much control, very bad, trying to get the government to tell you,
[30:50]we should do this. At that point, you almost, she was on the extreme end of things,
[30:55]extreme end of things. I'm like, I don't know, guys, I can see how you might really want none of
[31:01]that involvement. And that can, the idea of anything that even whiffs of not even communism,
[31:07]perhaps socialism and some things that we would say, oh, actually, but that could be good.
[31:10]It's like, nope, actually, nope, nope, this is what, and I like to be half to understand that
[31:14]people, people come to different things on their, that come to different conclusions for their
[31:19]own reasons and everyone has valid reasons for why they feel the way they feel, whether you disagree
[31:24]or not, or you agree. It's valid for them. I feel like I could sit and talk to you for like
[31:29]three more hours about books. I'm sad. This is ending. I feel like we've barely scratched the surface.
[31:34]And so many more questions about the club and, you know, books and all that. But hopefully,
[31:40]to be continued in some way, shape or form at some point. But it's nice to meet a kindred,
[31:44]you know, book obsessed person out there in the world. And, you know, you're definitely
[31:50]an organization. I love that. I'm totally obsessed. This is not my show.
[31:57]So you're going to go by the book, by the library card and post a picture of it or send it to me
[32:02]or something. I want to see it. I'll send you mine. I'll send a picture of it. I mean,
[32:06]you know what? I know. I'm telling you, double sided. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
[32:13]Sorry. Well, congrats on your, congrats on your children's book. I'm so excited. Thank you.
[32:18]Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[32:24]Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:30]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[32:35]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the
[32:40]sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[32:45]now trim music.