Brian Selznick, BIG TREE
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[1:03]Brian Selznick is the author of Big Tree.
[1:06]He began his career as a bookseller at Eora's Books for Children in New York City.
[1:10]Oh my gosh, I totally remember that store.
[1:13]I loved it.
[1:14]Oh, I should have talked to him about this.
[1:15]And he has worked as a puppeteer and a set designer.
[1:18]His books have sold millions of copies, garnered countless awards worldwide and have been
[1:21]translated into more than 35 languages.
[1:24]He broke open the novel form with his innovative and genre-defying thematic trilogy, beginning
[1:29]with the Cal Decot medal winning number one, New York Times bestseller, the invention
[1:33]of Hugo Cabaret, adapted into Martin Scorsese's Academy Award winning movie, Hugo.
[1:39]You follow that with the number one New York Times bestseller, Wonderstruck, which was
[1:42]adapted into the eponymous movie by celebrated filmmaker Todd Haynes with a screenplay
[1:47]by Selznick and the New York Times bestseller, The Marvels.
[1:52]Selznick's two most recent books for young people, Baby Monkey Private Eye, co-written
[1:56]with his husband, David Serlin, by the way, that is like one of my kid's favorite books
[2:01]ever.
[2:02]One kaleidoscope, a New York Times notable children's book of 2021, were both New York
[2:06]Times bestsellers.
[2:07]He has also illustrated the 20th anniversary edition covers of J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter
[2:11]series, and in praising his body work, The Washington Post says, Bryan Selznick proves to
[2:17]be that rare creator capable of following one masterpiece with another.
[2:21]Not surprisingly, when Big Tree came out, it also hit the bestseller list.
[2:26]Enjoy.
[2:27]Welcome, Bryan.
[2:28]Thank you so much for coming on Moms.
[2:30]I don't have time to read books to discuss your latest Big Tree.
[2:33]Congratulations.
[2:34]Thank you so much.
[2:35]You are such a genius.
[2:37]I don't even know what to say.
[2:38]This book is amazing how you put yourself in the point of view of a seed and make us care
[2:45]and love.
[2:46]And I felt like crying and how you have us see the whole world and the system of communication
[2:53]and what it means and what monsters.
[2:55]It's just amazing.
[2:57]It's so unique and so amazing.
[3:01]All of your work, but still, this is particularly powerful and awesome.
[3:04]Oh, thank you so much.
[3:07]That really means a lot, and it was very challenging figuring out how to tell a story about
[3:12]nature from nature's point of view, about two little seeds, and how to make us really
[3:17]be able to relate to it.
[3:18]But I think at a certain point, I realized that we all feel tiny and helpless and unable
[3:26]to do anything in a world that feels very much out of our control.
[3:32]And I write books about kids who have often been separated from their parents for various
[3:38]reasons and are themselves trying to find a safe place to grow up.
[3:44]And so I think I eventually realized that there actually isn't any difference between
[3:49]Marwyn and Louise who are seeds with any of the other human characters who I've written.
[3:56]Oh, my gosh.
[3:58]Why the seam?
[3:59]Like where does that come from a new person?
[4:02]So I mean, it's funny, I've always loved nature.
[4:06]I grew up in suburban New Jersey and there was a little area of woods right behind our
[4:11]house that hadn't been turned into a development yet.
[4:16]And so I remember like crossing the threshold from my backyard, which is very manicured
[4:20]into the wildness of the woods and like how everything changed, the sound changed, the
[4:25]smell changed, the feeling and the air changed was very mysterious, a little dangerous.
[4:30]I didn't know if there were wild animals or jaguars around.
[4:34]And you know, and eventually that got torn down and you know, built into other houses.
[4:39]But it wasn't this, I mean, this whole book started because I got a call from Steven Spielberg
[4:45]and so it's like the most, it's like the most unexpected, weird journey for any book I've
[4:52]ever made in so many ways because usually like I have something on my mind that I very much
[4:57]want to figure out how to write a story about whether it's French silent movies, which
[5:01]became Hugo or deaf culture and the history of museums, which became Wonderstruck London
[5:07]Theatre, which became the Marvel's like, but this like this time it was someone else
[5:13]literally planting a seed and that someone else was Steven Spielberg, you know, he called
[5:19]me like six or seven years ago and he had this idea.
[5:24]He wanted me to write a movie for him and I flew to California.
[5:29]He turned out he was a huge fan of Hugo and he asked me to write a movie for him about
[5:36]nature from nature's point of view because he realized that he had never seen a movie like
[5:41]that, that he had never seen a movie where the main characters were plants and I wondered
[5:47]that to myself.
[5:48]There might be a reason, you know, that we've never seen, and I spent a couple of years
[5:54]working with him in the co-producer Chris Melodandry on a screenplay for what would have been
[6:00]a big animated movie and I came up with these characters, this story, this time period
[6:06]it set sort of a little surprise at the beginning because at first we think it set today
[6:11]in a forest and eventually pretty quickly we discovered that it's actually set at the end
[6:16]of the Cretaceous era right before the asteroid hits the planet and destroys most life
[6:20]on earth.
[6:21]So the planets under an existential threat and these two little seeds, you know, I decided
[6:27]we're going to have to find a safe place to grow and try to figure out how they were going
[6:31]to save the world and that felt like a good parallel for what was happening today without
[6:36]the existential threat towards, you know, our planet and how we feel, you know, tiny
[6:41]and helpless and sometimes we feel like we're wrapped in a blanket on a sick day at home,
[6:47]you know, and we just wanted, we don't quite know where to be or what to do, you know,
[6:53]we all feel like that sometimes and so I worked on this with them until the pandemic hit
[7:01]and in the pandemic it became clear for various reasons that this movie was just never
[7:06]again a get made and by that point I had really fallen in love with the characters and
[7:12]the story so I proposed to Mr. Spielberg that they give me the rights to the story and
[7:19]let me turn it into a book and so this book that you have there that I have a copy here
[7:25]is the outcome of that request and in a funny way, even though it was actually meant to be
[7:34]a movie and we never could have imagined the pandemic would happen, I feel now that the story
[7:42]actually was always meant to be a book that because when it was a movie I wasn't doing any art,
[7:46]like it was going to be professional animators and we were like trying to figure out like where
[7:50]the faces were going to go on the seeds because we all thought you needed to have faces on characters
[7:54]in a movie but when I started doing the book I realized the reason that and the character designs
[8:02]never quite work with faces, it was because seeds don't have faces and you know for the story I
[8:09]had made a rule for myself that everything would have to be based in science so plants actually
[8:15]can communicate with each other so having the characters talk is fine but trees can't like get up
[8:20]and walk around on their roots so I wouldn't have that that's why I needed like seeds to be
[8:25]the main characters because they can actually move around and have some you know volition and then
[8:30]I just realized oh the pictures need to have the same rule and seeds don't have faces so the
[8:35]seeds in the book don't have faces I don't know it's just like a very unexpected discovery that this
[8:42]story should be a book and so I'm really glad I got the chance to do that oh my gosh well it doesn't
[8:50]matter that they don't have faces like you still relate so much because of their thoughts and feelings
[8:55]and their journeys and just yeah and even like seeing the dinosaur underneath and realizing like
[9:02]you said I was like oh my gosh like oh it's a dinosaur it's just it's amazing and even the loss
[9:09]of the maw I mean I know this happens really early I feel like I'm not giving much away right
[9:13]I could take this out if you don't want me to say but feelings of loss and like banding together
[9:19]it's just so it's so beautiful it's amazing thank you a friend of mine who's a mom always
[9:25]always said to me that once she thinks a good parent gives her children is roots and wings
[9:32]and you know roots to know that they have a family and and and a system where they're safe
[9:37]but wings to fly out into the world and and discover who they are yeah and so when I started writing
[9:43]this book I knew I wanted to use that because would be the literally the perfect thing for
[9:48]a tree to actually say you know ultimately right seeds have to leave their mom a tree
[9:54]and head off into the world to grow yeah and you know I don't have kids but I understand that
[10:00]one of the things you hope to do as a parent
[10:03]is to be able to raise someone who can go out
[10:05]into the world and have a good life.
[10:08]And that's challenging because you wanna protect them
[10:12]and be able to stop bad things from happening to them
[10:17]but at a certain point, right?
[10:18]We all need to go out into the world and make our way.
[10:23]But we can do it, I think, perhaps more securely
[10:28]if we know that we come from a family that supports us
[10:32]and a good system of roots and then we can really, you know,
[10:35]use the wings we hopefully have been given.
[10:38]And the sibling relationship too.
[10:40]I mean, I think a lot of parents,
[10:42]I don't know, do you have siblings yourself?
[10:44]I do. I'm the oldest of three.
[10:45]Oh, okay. So you must feel like that protective instinct
[10:48]to bat your siblings. I'm the oldest too.
[10:50]And like, I don't know. I'm always like,
[10:52]I always feel that even though we're old now.
[10:55]I can't, I'm sure he doesn't want my protection.
[10:58]You know, it's like a 47-year-old man, you know.
[11:01]But inside, I can't let that go no matter what.
[11:04]So I think this is the first time I've ever actually written
[11:07]about siblings because most of my kids are either only kids
[11:10]or orphans and they make families around them.
[11:13]Like my books are very much about how we make our own family
[11:17]ultimately and, you know, we bring people to us who we love
[11:21]and who we want to be around, who we can support and who can support us.
[11:27]And, you know, but this was, this was really interesting
[11:30]to start to write about or imagine writing
[11:33]about a sibling relationship.
[11:35]And I think I also kind of like ultimately discovered
[11:38]that the two, they have very different personalities,
[11:41]you know, as siblings often do.
[11:43]And Merwin, who's, even though they're essentially the same age,
[11:46]Merwin kind of acts as the older brother.
[11:49]And he's very bossy and very secure in his knowledge
[11:53]that he's right and very rigid.
[11:55]And his little sister Louise is very dreamy and poetic
[11:58]and kind of hears voices and talks to the stars in her dreams.
[12:03]And, but she's the one who begins to like understand
[12:06]that there might be a bigger purpose than just finding a safe place to grow.
[12:09]That maybe they have a larger thing that they need to do.
[12:14]And after I finished the book, someone asked me
[12:17]who these characters were based on because people always want to know
[12:19]like, who is the only like, who in your life inspired these characters?
[12:24]And for me, the answer keeps on being like, they're all me.
[12:27]Like it's all me.
[12:28]Like I can't say I'm conscious of that when I'm writing.
[12:31]But I'm like, oh, like one side of me is like super rigid and wants to control
[12:36]everything around me.
[12:37]And that's the side that like my husband gets mad at me about
[12:41]and like causes me to have fights with people, you know.
[12:44]But then the other side is like that dreamy kind of curious part
[12:50]that is creative and wants to connect to the bigger world
[12:54]and is very fluid and is much more able to listen.
[12:58]And you know, but those are those are two sides
[13:01]and maybe there are two sides of all of us in different ways,
[13:03]but the balance shifts depending on who we are and how much therapy we've had.
[13:07]You know, but like that tension is very much, I think it's very,
[13:14]it's a very human tension and as I've thought about it,
[13:17]I'm very aware that I am trying to allow Louise to outweigh
[13:23]Merwin, which is what ultimately is a big part of the story of a victory.
[13:31]I feel like this should be a New Yorker cartoon where like you see the balance
[13:34]and then you see the most therapy sessions and then they walk out
[13:37]like, you know. Oh my gosh, so funny.
[13:42]But you also would be sure you still raise questions of,
[13:45]you know, they're all these hard-working scientists,
[13:48]but if they don't have the right perspective, it doesn't matter how much they're
[13:52]aware and all the results and what does it mean if you're so studying,
[13:56]but you don't even realize you're underwater.
[13:58]Like if you're so myopic, then you're not going to be able to take in everything
[14:02]and help anything, which is something.
[14:05]Yeah, these characters, the scientists in the book are little tiny creatures
[14:10]that Merwin and Louise meet when they get stuck underwater after a various series of other
[14:16]adventures. And these little scientists are based on real creatures called
[14:21]Framanifera that are almost microscopic, the biggest ones are about the size
[14:25]of a grain of sand and they're in all the water everywhere for all time.
[14:31]They've always been in the water. And when they die,
[14:33]they're little tiny shells fossilize and capture the carbon from the atmosphere.
[14:38]And when scientists find these almost microscopic fossils from
[14:42]millions and billions of years ago, in the fossil of the Framanifera,
[14:46]they can see what the carbon level was at the time that they died.
[14:50]And that's actually how we know about climate change.
[14:52]So I turned these Framanifera into these characters, these funny little
[14:55]characters called scientists whose entire job underwater is recording data.
[15:01]And the Framanifera, the scientists that Merwin and Louise meet
[15:05]are kind of working for this mad king.
[15:08]And he's a piece of seaweed who thinks he's like in charge of everything and he knows everything.
[15:14]And everything he interprets is incorrect. He's never been out of the water,
[15:19]so he doesn't believe that land even exists. He's heard about it. It's like a fairy tale.
[15:24]And so therefore he thinks Merwin and Louise don't exist even though they're standing in front
[15:28]of him. He decides they're imaginary and he always wanted imaginary friends.
[15:32]And so he captures them in this seashell.
[15:35]And so he's this kind of like mad king of Bavaria, like Ludwig.
[15:40]And he's just wrong about everything.
[15:42]And the scientists are saying that they're capturing all this information for essentially
[15:47]for him. And Merwin at one point says sort of what you were saying, which is what's the point?
[15:53]Like if your data isn't being interpreted correctly, what's the point of collecting the
[15:58]data? And the point that they make is what's important is getting it right.
[16:04]And we can't control how other people interpret it. And our hope is that one day,
[16:11]because they in my story, like they purposefully inscribed the information on their bodies,
[16:16]all the information that they've gathered. But it's sort of inspired by the idea of the carbon
[16:21]that's captured in their bodies. And they say like, we trust that one day
[16:28]some scientists, other scientists will come along who interpret our data correctly.
[16:34]And so for them in the future, we need to get everything right. And that's us. They don't know it,
[16:41]but they're talking about us. And because they did their jobs well, we are able to benefit from it.
[16:47]And that seemed like something that made sense for the world today and from various angles.
[16:53]I mean, this whole thing, like, it gives me chills just how it all wings to today.
[16:58]And a good all the big meanings behind it. It's really amazing. So are you not upset at all that
[17:04]it's not a movie? Do you feel like this is way better? Because now you got to do the book?
[17:08]Like, are you a little bit sad?
[17:11]No, it's so funny. Like, like what made me sad? I was about to say what made me sad was the pandemic,
[17:17]as if like that was a shocking piece of news, right? Like, we were also devastated by the shutdown.
[17:25]And all of our lives changed in ways we never ever imagined it could. The world changed in
[17:32]ways we never imagined it could. We're still obviously dealing with all of the ramifications of
[17:37]that. The world is still in great upheaval, which we feel every single day. And I often
[17:45]just look at ourselves and think, like, how does any of us get through a day? Like, luckily,
[17:53]right now, we are able to make pretend that some things are normal, which is great, you know,
[17:57]but it's helpful to get through the day. But like, you know, we all know nothing is normal.
[18:03]And also, maybe it calls into question the idea that the fact that we thought things were
[18:08]normal earlier is also a problem. A lot of things that we thought were normal.
[18:13]It's actually really good to recognize our, in fact, not normal. And so, like, that sense of
[18:24]the upheaval and the devastation is what was so like, you know, like all of us is what I was
[18:30]dealing with. And so the fact that there's a book now, like a physical object that we can all
[18:37]look at and open and read. We can listen to the audio version of it. Like, like, the fact that
[18:42]this story has gotten out there because I wanted it to, right? Like, like, I was told this
[18:48]movie isn't going to happen. It was nothing was going to happen. And I got the idea to keep it
[18:54]alive, to make it a book. And I made it happen. You know, I mean, Mr. Spielberg gave me the permission
[18:59]and encouraged me and loved the outcome. You know, he asked to see the book when it was finished.
[19:04]He didn't ask for input as I was making the book. But, you know, when I finished, I sent it to him
[19:10]in the co-producer, Chris Melodandry. And they called me on the phone to tell me how much they
[19:15]loved it. And that's a really nice feeling. And so, no, the only thing I feel when I think about
[19:24]Big Tree is joy and gratitude that it exists. Do you feel like it's more for kids for grownups
[19:32]or just for everybody? He's like, as grownup, I love, like, I feel like this was still for me.
[19:38]Like, so much out of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm very proud when I say that I write an
[19:46]illustrate books for children. Like, I love being a children's book writer and illustrator.
[19:51]I do a lot of things. I write screenplays and I'm working on shows and other things.
[19:56]I'm a puppeteer, but I always leave.
[20:00]by saying, I'm a writer and illustrator of children's books.
[20:02]So I'm very conscious of the fact that my audience is kids,
[20:07]and they're the best audience you could ask for.
[20:10]But I also really love when people who are not kids
[20:14]tell me that they've read my books and love them and relate to them
[20:18]and have shared them, and that makes me very happy.
[20:21]Because ultimately, I'm not actually writing my books for kids.
[20:25]Like, I'm really just writing my books for myself.
[20:29]I mean, I'm aware that I'm working in a job,
[20:32]and I hope that that job leads to a book that gets published
[20:36]and gets sent out into the world.
[20:38]I used to work at a children's bookstore before I started.
[20:42]And I remember the thrill of reading all the books
[20:45]and getting the new books from all the authors who I loved
[20:49]and dreaming of one day having one book on the shelf
[20:52]and how incredible that would be.
[20:53]And my first book was published
[20:55]while I was still working at the bookstore.
[20:57]So I got to actually give that book to people, right?
[21:02]So the act of sharing is very much a part of the process, right?
[21:08]That's what I do.
[21:09]It's what you do.
[21:10]You're talking to people and sharing what you love
[21:14]about books, about reading, about what parents can gain,
[21:19]what kids can gain from the act of reading together.
[21:23]And talking about books together.
[21:27]So that act of sharing is very much part of why I do what I do.
[21:32]But mostly I just write because I write about things
[21:35]I want to write about that I find interesting,
[21:39]which usually are not actually things kids would normally
[21:42]find interesting.
[21:42]Like the invention of Kia Kia Bray was about French silent
[21:45]movies, which is not a guaranteed bestseller
[21:48]in the children's book world.
[21:50]And so, you know, but my editor early on said to me,
[21:56]you know, if, because everyone I would,
[21:59]people would ask me what I was working on.
[22:00]I'd be like, I'm looking for children about French silent movies.
[22:02]And I'd be like, that is a terrible idea.
[22:05]And my editor said, you know, if the main character
[22:09]cares about something, and then your readers
[22:13]care about your main character, they'll also care about
[22:16]what the main character cares about.
[22:18]And so that and that became very true for silent movies.
[22:22]Like so many kids wrote me after Hugo to say,
[22:25]oh my god, we love watching silent movies now.
[22:28]And we made a silent movie festival for the, you know,
[22:32]retirement community in our, in our town.
[22:34]And so, you know, one restaurant was about like the history
[22:39]of museums and deaf culture, you know,
[22:42]the marvels was about the history of British theater.
[22:45]Like, like these are things that people often don't learn
[22:47]about to like graduate school if they learn about it at all.
[22:50]But I'm interested in it.
[22:52]So I find a way in for me.
[22:55]And because my main characters are usually 10 to 12 years old,
[22:59]that, you know, it's generally why I think my books are for kids.
[23:03]Like I'm, again, like I'm not specifically writing for kids,
[23:06]even though as I said, I'm very proud of the fact that they're my,
[23:09]my main audience.
[23:11]It's just that the people who I think of to write stories about
[23:15]are 10 to 12 years old.
[23:16]So it makes sense that people who are that age mostly gravitate to that story,
[23:20]younger, older, but around that age.
[23:23]And so I'm writing about things that I love.
[23:27]But especially I think recognizing in big tree,
[23:30]like I'm also writing about struggles that I need to figure out for myself.
[23:34]Right.
[23:35]Like I was talking about like the fight between the, the merwin side of me
[23:38]and the Louis side of me, right?
[23:40]So it's also a way to work through your own,
[23:44]your own issues in a lot of ways.
[23:47]But again, in a way that hopefully is something that people can relate to.
[23:51]And, and that is universal because generally we're,
[23:56]we're dealing within themes that are often,
[24:00]you know, bigger than just us, whatever thing we're grieving,
[24:04]whatever thing we're struggling with, whatever thing we don't know how to do.
[24:09]Like generally we're not actually the only person dealing with those things.
[24:14]Maybe we have unique situations where all unique people,
[24:17]we all approach things uniquely.
[24:19]We all have unique families.
[24:21]But thematically, other people are dealing with similar things.
[24:26]Very true.
[24:27]There's no better way to connect them through the emotions and,
[24:30]you know, the very core of all of that.
[24:33]But why have you picked this overlay?
[24:35]So obviously your topics are very interesting and they come from deep interest and academic
[24:40]and intellectual and everything.
[24:42]But to overlay the emotional separation,
[24:45]like you were talking about earlier with a child or from the parent,
[24:49]or even in baby monkey private eye,
[24:51]which I know I have to keep referencing because my son loves it so much.
[24:54]You know, this quest to like find the person you love and all of that
[25:00]or what happens when you get separated.
[25:01]Like where did that piece come from?
[25:03]Like is there something with your like,
[25:05]did you do therapy on that part?
[25:07]You know, I grew up in a very stable household.
[25:12]You know, my parents were very supportive of me and my brother and my sister.
[25:16]They always said they would support whatever it is we want to do when we grew up.
[25:20]And when I was really little like five or six, you know, I loved art.
[25:25]And somehow when my brother was like six,
[25:28]he knew he wanted to be a brain surgeon.
[25:30]And my sister in kindergarten knew she wanted to be a kindergarten teacher.
[25:35]And that's what we all grew up to be.
[25:37]But I don't know like we're talking very much about themes right now.
[25:41]But really when I'm writing, I'm not focused on themes.
[25:46]I'm focused on plot and character and like what happens next.
[25:49]Right.
[25:50]And when I finished Hugo, if you had asked me what that book was about,
[25:55]I would have said it's a book about a kid who lives in a train station,
[26:00]who meets an old man who, you know, help each other.
[26:03]But you know, a friend of mine is a theater director.
[26:05]And he says it's the artist's job to make the work.
[26:07]And it's the audience's job to tell them what it's about.
[26:10]Yeah.
[26:11]And very early on, when I was on tour for the book of Hugo,
[26:15]an adult reader came up to me and said,
[26:17]I love that Hugo is about how we make our own families.
[26:22]And I was like, it is.
[26:23]And I said, oh my gosh, it is.
[26:26]Right.
[26:26]Because that's what happens to Hugo like he, you know, ends up finding this family.
[26:31]You know, it's not his biological family because he's an orphan.
[26:34]But he makes, he gets a sister.
[26:37]He gets essentially parental figures in George and John Melias.
[26:42]And he's safe in a home at the end of that book.
[26:45]And I think that idea of like going out into the world,
[26:49]like we were talking before with roots and wings and making our own families is just really
[26:56]central to my experience.
[26:59]And I think growing up as a queer kid and like coming out very late,
[27:02]like I was in my mid to late 20s before I even came out, you know, it was,
[27:07]it was like discovering that like, oh my god, there are other people out here who have
[27:12]been experiencing this thing that I've been keeping secret that I thought was just mine.
[27:17]And suddenly it's like, oh, wow, like I'm actually part of a culture.
[27:21]I'm part of a history, you know, and that's why these, you know, sort of insane horrific bands
[27:26]that are going on right now are so ultimately useless, except that they're going to hurt young people,
[27:32]like that, that they're actively going to do.
[27:34]But what they're not going to do is make gay people not exist, right?
[27:39]Because we have existed through all of time.
[27:41]If we have existed before there were names for us.
[27:44]And so you can't make us not exist.
[27:46]And the fantasy that like we only exist because we read about ourselves in a book is nuts
[27:52]because most of us, you know, of a certain age grew up in a world where there was no positive
[27:59]role model. There were no very few characters in books.
[28:02]There was no one saying it's okay, you know?
[28:05]And so that sense of like needing to find a community and whatever community you're in,
[28:12]there are people who agree with you, right?
[28:16]Like there are people on your side, I met a librarian recently at a
[28:19]librarian conference who's in a state that's facing a lot of difficulties in book batting.
[28:24]And I said, what can we do? And she said, just talk about us.
[28:28]Like just talk about libraries and the importance of libraries.
[28:32]And remember that even in a place where you feel like the entire community is
[28:38]ganging up against you, there are people in that community who support you.
[28:44]Sometimes they may not be as vocal because they might have to be at home taken care of their kids
[28:48]or whatever it is. But but there is a community there. It's just sometimes it's a little harder
[28:54]to find them. And for young people, it is going to make things more difficult in a lot of ways.
[29:00]And you know, so we just hope that, you know, we can keep getting the message out that
[29:04]there are people out there who love you and support you and want you to be okay.
[29:09]Yes. I honestly can't even believe all this is happening in the world. It's like it's
[29:13]Brian, this has been so interesting. I truly thank you for such a genius in so many ways.
[29:19]And it's an honor to talk to you. And congratulations about Big Tree on Big Tree and everything
[29:24]that you're working on. And I'm just such a fan. And yeah, go forth and conquer.
[29:29]Thank you for the work you do getting the word out into the world.
[29:34]It's really greatly appreciated. And it's so good to talk to you. You too. All right.
[29:39]Bye. Thank you.
[29:40]All right. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms. Don't have time to read books.
[29:45]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms. Don't have time to read books.
[29:50]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[29:55]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, textures
[30:00]Sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[30:04]fantastic intro and out trim music.