Luvvie Ajayi Jones, LITTLE TROUBLEMAKER MAKES A MESS
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[1:03]Lovey Ajayi Jones is back on momstone of time to read books for the second time to discuss
[1:08]her children's book Little Troublemaker makes a mess.
[1:11]She also sent me the most amazing swag for my kids I couldn't decide which little troublemaker
[1:16]to give it to, but it included this adorable apron and wooden spoon and a hat and book
[1:22]and coloring sheet and markers and a pin and so much it was so sweet and we really appreciate
[1:29]it.
[1:30]She is a three time New York Times best-selling author, speaker and entrepreneur who thrives
[1:34]at the intersection of culture, business and leadership.
[1:37]She is CEO and chief creative officer of all love media.
[1:42]Her critically acclaimed books, professional troublemaker, the fear fighter manual, and
[1:46]I'm judging you the do better manual or instant best sellers and establishes a literary
[1:51]force with a powerful Ben.
[1:53]Her first book for young adults is rising troublemaker, a fear fighter manual for teens,
[1:59]debuted at number three on the New York Times bestseller list and now comes her newest
[2:03]venture and first picture book Little Troublemaker makes a mess.
[2:08]Her renowned TED Talk get comfortable with being uncomfortable, has over 8.3 million views,
[2:14]has been transcribed into 23 languages and has placed her in the top 1% of TED talks
[2:19]of all time.
[2:21]Lovey is taking the stage at some of the world's most innovative and disruptive brands such
[2:24]as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, Spotify, Nike, Bank of America, Salesforce, Deloitte
[2:31]and Clipbar.
[2:32]She's been a feature speaker at noted conferences such as Cannes, Lions, South by Southwest,
[2:37]Leadercast, Three percent Conference, and Makers Conference.
[2:40]Lovey is the host of a podcast of the same name as her popular book, professional troublemaker.
[2:45]Lovey, thank you for coming on moms.
[2:48]Don't have time to read books and interviewing with me to talk about little troublemaker
[2:53]makes a mess.
[2:54]I'm so happy you're here today.
[2:56]Thank you so much for having me.
[2:57]I love Vivi's work and I'm always excited to share space with fellow lovers of knowledge.
[3:02]Yes, it's so perfect and I have to tell you that I started my day today by showering
[3:08]and using the soap or the sponge that I got off of your Instagram years ago at Sappo,
[3:15]right?
[3:16]Yeah, the Sappo is fun.
[3:17]Two years ago.
[3:18]I'm obsessed.
[3:19]I have probably eight of them now.
[3:21]I buy them for people all the time.
[3:24]Probably I've been following you for a while, but when that popped up, I was like, yeah,
[3:28]now I'll do whatever she tells me to do.
[3:29]You sold me.
[3:30]Listen, I have a Sappo sponge.
[3:32]I have a travel one.
[3:34]Yes.
[3:35]I love both sizes.
[3:36]I bought the kids one even and then I've been using it for me.
[3:39]Oh, I'm so glad.
[3:41]It's just the same stuff we need.
[3:42]We need to be exfoliated all the time.
[3:45]Yes.
[3:46]Hey, smooth.
[3:47]It's perfect.
[3:49]I love it.
[3:50]Well, I'm so glad you're here today and that we're both clean and prepared and ready for
[3:54]the interview.
[3:55]Amen.
[3:56]So I wanted to talk to you just starting off this book, first of all, let me say, I really
[4:03]loved it.
[4:04]It's so well done.
[4:06]I think the kids are going to love it.
[4:08]It's so the illustrations are really lively, but your text is really just right and it's
[4:15]hard to do in a picture book.
[4:17]I've read thousands of them and it's just it's so it flows nicely.
[4:24]It's I love the relationships between the characters.
[4:26]There's so much to talk about there that's valuable, but well, that is such an amazing
[4:30]affirmation.
[4:31]I love to hear that this is my first kid picture book.
[4:35]And I would tell you, I was like afraid in a little bit daunted by it in the beginning.
[4:39]And I was like, I don't know if I can write a kid's book, but I end up doing it.
[4:43]So the fact that you're like, it's actually dope.
[4:45]I'm excited.
[4:46]And so yes, it's easy to see that I was reading it and smiling.
[4:50]And that's really a true test for me because I just sort of smile at the books.
[4:54]And I loved little lovey.
[4:56]I just I think connected with her and it's so great.
[5:00]So I kind of wanted to talk first of all, just about like, you know, how you are obviously
[5:05]in New York Times bestseller many times over and we have, I'm judging you and because
[5:10]you're Queen of the, the necessary side, I would say, yeah, because it is very necessary.
[5:17]So that and then we went to professional troublemaker and you have one for teens and now
[5:22]we're in the children's space.
[5:23]But just we tell me about a little bit about the children's book and how you got there
[5:29]and how you're feeling about it being part of this collection.
[5:32]Yeah.
[5:33]You know, so little troublemaker makes a mess felt so right for me to do for a long time
[5:39]I went to show a picture of like an overconfident kid who's a girl in in book form because
[5:46]I feel like we don't have enough of them.
[5:48]You know what I'm saying?
[5:49]Like in the book space, it's just not enough that empowers girls especially and then
[5:54]a brown girl that like me, oh, it really is hard to find.
[5:59]So when I wrote professional troublemaker, a lot of parents were like, oh my gosh, I wish
[6:03]I had this book when I was a teenager.
[6:06]I wrote rising troublemaker for the teens to give them the book and actually to give me
[6:10]the book that I needed when I was 16 and needs to hear that being different is okay.
[6:14]Yeah.
[6:15]So then I was like, you know what, but like the babies also need to hear a story about
[6:20]a little girl who's too much who always learns that her mistakes don't define her that
[6:25]she's still lovable in spite of them, right?
[6:27]Like little lovey will always learn because it's the first of a series I'm claiming that
[6:32]little lovey will always learn that she is worthy, right?
[6:39]Even though she doesn't always get things right, even though she will always learn to
[6:42]lessen and learn how to move forward different.
[6:45]One thing I always want at the end of every book that I'm going to write about little
[6:49]lovey is that she walks away saying, somebody still loves me even though I made a mess,
[6:54]even though I got in trouble, even though I didn't make the right decision.
[6:57]I am still okay.
[6:58]So that's why I wrote it.
[6:59]I have goosebumps.
[7:00]I find that so beautiful and inspiring because we kids, especially, they need that grace
[7:07]so much for themselves and to know that and especially like you're speaking about kids
[7:13]who are a lot, kids who, you know, their desires and their their visions outweigh their
[7:20]abilities and they're just kind of a mess sometimes and to know that that's a lovable
[7:29]part of who they are and not a part of it to set aside is just such a gift for them.
[7:33]So I think you captured that really well and you know, one thing to actually realize
[7:38]and big lovey who's like learning to love herself even more through little lovey because
[7:43]I'm giving her more grace is that adults need to hear that, you know, so many of us
[7:49]are perfectionists and the moment we make mistakes, okay, yeah, okay, Andrea's perfectionist
[7:55]right here.
[7:56]Yes, yes.
[7:57]Make a mistake.
[7:58]We have a bad decision.
[7:59]We make a bad choice.
[8:01]We have a bad day.
[8:02]We end up thinking we're a bad people.
[8:05]So I kind of put the lessons that I wanted to hear into what little lovey's also going
[8:11]to be learning like because if we heard that enough and we were little that like your
[8:15]mistakes don't define you, we are left likely to become the adults who scalp ourselves
[8:20]every time we don't get something right.
[8:22]Every time it does not go the exact way we want to go.
[8:25]Every time we might feel embarrassed by something, right.
[8:28]So I'm like, I'm pouring all the grace.
[8:30]I don't usually give myself into little lovey and I'm hoping she pours it back into me
[8:35]and she's already started.
[8:37]So that's been it's been gifting me right back to me.
[8:40]Ah, that's such a good thing to hear.
[8:43]It's so true because we do our inner voices are horrible.
[8:46]Yes, they're just vicious and the idea that you can replace some of that a little bit
[8:53]for yourself and then also to think if kids have those tools and those voices and they
[8:58]hear them differently earlier, like what are they?
[9:01]Just especially since mistakes are part of the process and I still hate it but apparently
[9:08]it's true.
[9:09]I know.
[9:10]I hate making mistakes.
[9:11]Let the record show.
[9:13]I hate making mistakes.
[9:15]It is.
[9:16]I value myself on being somebody who's excellent is one of my big core values.
[9:21]It is.
[9:22]Making mistakes really just like punches me in the face differently and I'm just like, oh
[9:26]guys.
[9:27]So yeah, for for a little lovey to make a mess in this book and her mom tells her, okay,
[9:33]I want you to fix this but I still love you.
[9:37]It's an affirmation.
[9:38]I think a lot of us just need to hear.
[9:40]So the baby's hearing that now.
[9:42]Yeah.
[9:43]All right.
[9:44]Amen.
[9:45]You're exactly right though.
[9:46]Adults need to hear it too.
[9:47]And I maintain a that you're never tooled for picture books and that facts.
[9:51]There are still books that I read as an adult that I that make me feel feelings that
[9:55]I need to feel in that same way where there's a because we are all on this.
[10:00]You know journey of trying to heal the little people inside us since they're still right present and so this idea that we're able to do that
[10:08]So yes, I think your book will be for both young people and older people
[10:15]Yes
[10:16]Big people and little people we are needed, but no, I'm so excited for the little people to hear too
[10:21]Because they're gonna look it's all colorful and I want it to be colorful so they can be like oh my gosh
[10:25]It's beautiful the illustrations that Joey did are
[10:29]Incredible now. How was that process?
[10:31]Did you because I know typically you finish all of the text and then send it to the illustrator
[10:35]Was there any was that how it went for you? Was there any collaboration before then?
[10:39]Yes, there was collaboration beforehand
[10:41]So I had a great time doing this with Joey Spioto like he
[10:47]Nailed it so we did before we became up with the book. Yeah, we came up with the characters
[10:52]So I went to Joey and I was like help me build this world this character
[10:55]So I've actually built five y'all only see three in this book
[10:58]But there's five that's already been built so once we built the characters and how he built little lovey
[11:04]He had me send pictures of me when I was young and now to him
[11:08]So you got kind of created from that. But what's interesting is
[11:12]I am very much the little lovey I was so like I sent him a picture of me when I was young when I was wearing a purple fedora
[11:19]A purple velvet dress
[11:21]I had two gold chains on and a red lip and I was six
[11:26]I'm like just to be clear
[11:29]I'm just babies that girl just taller
[11:32]So he literally took that he took the version of me now and he merged it and literally is the same for
[11:36]I've had the same face as I was born
[11:39]So amazing when he sent me the first illustration. I melted
[11:43]He and we went through a couple of we went through a couple of rounds because at one point little lovey looks too cool
[11:50]Like so because my hair is colored right now. So he colored the top of her head. Okay. So she was really I mean
[11:56]She had chains on which funny enough that was actually me as a kid
[11:59]But I was like, let's uncool her a little bit
[12:02]You don't want to be too intimidating
[12:05]For the best for the big sauce that you know what let's take the colors off
[12:09]Let's take her chain off when she still has her earrings on her gold studs are there. Okay. I love them
[12:14]And he built her sister based on my sister
[12:18]He saw a picture of my mom
[12:20]And then we went and then I was like, okay
[12:22]So what is the story that needs to happen here?
[12:25]So then yeah, I wrote the story about her trying to cook
[12:29]I sent it to Joey and I promised you from the first illustration
[12:32]I was like, yes
[12:33]Like all we did was have to add more colors. I was like, you know what?
[12:36]Let's make it a little bit more helpful. I don't know what like much about interior design
[12:40]But I said go nuts make it warm and he exploded the colors and I was like, yes. Thank you
[12:46]It's amazing even the illustration page. I'm thinking of the spread with the soap
[12:50]The color of the soap
[12:52]It's so beautiful. It just is that pop seafoam like
[12:58]I'm so impressed with all of those details
[13:01]So yes, I'm glad you were wild on the color
[13:03]That's I that was one of my questions for you
[13:05]Was whether you had a sister because I feel like the sister relationship as soon as she pops up air pods in like
[13:12]I don't have time for this right now. I just I'm an older sister
[13:18]Yeah, that's me a hundred percent. I definitely have an older sister who's six years older than me
[13:24]And I'm the baby. So that is back and true like I don't have time for your foolishness
[13:30]What do you want now and yet I still bring the foolishness to her
[13:34]Like I got this. I'm gonna do it myself since you want to be rude to me
[13:38]Oh, yeah, I got this me why you didn't I don't have this no didn't I don't have this at all
[13:42]No, but I thought I did yes
[13:45]I can really relate to that
[13:47]Oh, I just the colors and all of it the illustration. That's great that you were able to work
[13:53]With him in that way
[13:55]To develop it. That's really cool when you know and I think illustrators are amazing because they're basically translators
[14:02]Right, they're just taking the words, but they it's it's less like creating and it really is like they translate
[14:07]Sometimes they can hit things and you think that's exactly how it should have been done. No, like he hit it
[14:13]So like I had so much fun working on his book like from start to finish me and Joey
[14:17]We just go back and forth and email that he's like all right. Here's another draft. I'm like nailed it
[14:22]Yes
[14:23]And I would say I kept on changing my mind on certain elements because so some of the stuff I had really good fun with was her shirt
[14:31]Yes, so at first her shirt was just a plain
[14:34]Feel shirt and then towards the end of the process. I go. I feel I'm pretty sure it is missing
[14:39]She seems like a kid who would like graphic tees because I love graphic tees
[14:42]Yeah, and we just put a heart on it
[14:44]So we put a heart on her shirt and that was like I would like perfect nailed it
[14:50]We got it. She's definitely that kid who goes to Target and goes. I want that t-shirt mob
[14:54]I want that one. Yes. So she is perfect. She's perfectly cool because I also noticed the graphic tee and I was like, yeah
[15:01]I mean I'd wear that I think that
[15:04]Adult me wants this shirt
[15:07]Joey make me an outfit that adult me wants to wear. Oh, that's what you that's what you should do is
[15:12]Get yourself a matching outfit
[15:15]So I am for my book tour. Yes. I'm so I'm gonna I'm gonna definitely wear a little
[15:22]I'm gonna be a little lovey. I will be wearing a jeans. I will be wearing a teal shirt and I found the perfect shoes to match the shirt
[15:29]Stop. I'm very happy for you. Congratulations. Thank you. That's so exciting to me
[15:34]Legit. Yes, those are the things that those little details that and that's what's so fun
[15:39]I feel like about children's books too. There's just a world of joy there that is yeah
[15:44]I mean writing a book is wonderful and
[15:46]Publishing all the things are really special and magical but children's books just they
[15:51]There's so much freedom and yeah in the way that you share it and so that's awesome
[15:56]Yeah, yes, like it was fun. Oh, that's really fun. Now we have your outfit planned
[16:01]We I say like we like I was involved, but you know
[16:05]You have my outfit planned now
[16:07]Perfect. Here's a question for you. How did you so I was reading and listening to your podcast that you have recorded about little troublemaker
[16:17]and yeah, you had talked about the five
[16:19]Lessons that you wanted little lovey to know and yes, are those did you start there or did you start you've started with the characters obviously?
[16:29]But did you have those in mind before you came up with a story or that's after oh
[16:34]Interesting
[16:36]Truly, I wrote this story because I wrote I want to write a story about this little girl with a big heart big personality
[16:43]big feelings in this tiny package who always feels like she can do something right
[16:49]I want it to really write it also because it's so counter to the stories that we hear about girls
[16:55]So then it was once I wrote the story. I was like oh
[16:59]Yes, these lessons already infused into the spirit of the story
[17:03]Start pulling those lessons out and said all right because yeah, I wanted to show that
[17:07]Our good intentions. We always got into again. I know this kid. I was this kid. I'm y'all are raising this kid
[17:15]Who has such great intentions? You're so kind
[17:18]Right, but the their execution is often trash
[17:23]You love them so much. You're like I see you. I see what you're trying to do here
[17:27]But no, it's bigger than you and you know
[17:30]I also wanted to think about that moment before we all got that abused out of us
[17:35]Mm-hmm. Both eat that of us. You know
[17:38]So I went to just write that story. So when I wrote that story those lessons popped out at me
[17:42]I was like that's the lessons that these little girl like these little girls are boys
[17:47]I want to know and when I hear because they really do want to do something good in the world. Yeah, they're just so kind and they're just like
[17:53]I can do it. I want to help. I want to help. I want to do this thing
[17:56]But they just don't know where to channel their energy. So I just want to write that story
[17:59]But the lessons were embedded
[18:02]I think that really speaks to you and I've seen this since I've followed you for a while you really do
[18:09]have a commitment to
[18:11]authenticity and knowing
[18:13]Knowing who you are and you're you know what lines up for you and what feels right and true and so it's not surprising to me that
[18:22]What came out in your children's book was totally in line because
[18:27]I think it it's just a credit to
[18:30]What you're trying to do and create. I think it's really cool to see and meet
[18:36]And
[18:38]Yes, it did have to it was meant to be it's so true. That's such a cool thing about writing a book
[18:43]I think when it you hit it right. It's like oh, I created it
[18:46]But also I was just sort of bringing it to be it was meant to be
[18:51]Like yeah, yeah a little correct
[18:54]I
[18:54]Really like what you were saying and I had actually written this down that little kids have big emotions
[19:00]So I work in an elementary library and yes
[19:04]I think the way that your book honors the bigness of that emotion
[19:08]But it's so true for adults too that you know
[19:11]I have
[19:13]Far too many feelings and not always the skills to
[19:16]Wrangle them or get them where I need them to be so it's that same feeling of
[19:22]That I really just watched. Yeah staying true to that little girl. It was it was a really a really cool thing to see
[19:29]How did you decide on what love you was going to attempt to make?
[19:34]So I decided that love you was gonna attempt to cook jalof rice, which is my favorite dish
[19:39]I'm Nigerian born and raised and you know every
[19:43]Culture has their rice every culture. There's Spanish rice. There's jambalaya New Orleans. There's fried rice
[19:51]In Asia. Yeah, so the West African version think about it every name culture has their rice. Okay
[19:58]That'd be right
[20:00]He ran in like India, like we all got it.
[20:02]So for us, the West Africans, we have Jelof rice.
[20:05]Okay.
[20:06]Tomato based, it's my favorite thing.
[20:08]I talk about it all the time.
[20:09]It's a big cultural piece.
[20:11]So I wanted to also bring that piece of myself
[20:13]into this story.
[20:14]Like what would she do?
[20:16]I'm also the person who even today
[20:18]still mostly East Nigerian food.
[20:20]Like you won't catch me eating sandwiches often
[20:23]because I feel like my spices,
[20:24]if my tongue is not on fire,
[20:25]have I actually eaten, have I actually eaten?
[20:29]Okay, these are the questions.
[20:31]Okay.
[20:31]But I was like, you know what?
[20:33]What would happen?
[20:34]What would she want to do?
[20:35]She'd find a sandwich in the fridge
[20:36]and be wildly disappointed.
[20:38]And be like, uh-uh, where is the rice?
[20:40]And if there's no rice, I'm gonna try to make it happen.
[20:43]Myself.
[20:44]Yes.
[20:45]I'm not eating those nasty leftovers.
[20:47]Thank you very much.
[20:48]No, I'm gonna try to cook four hours process myself
[20:52]because overconfidence,
[20:53]because why?
[20:54]Audacity.
[20:55]All right.
[20:56]Audacity, yes.
[20:57]That's all over.
[20:59]Audacity and destruction.
[21:00]So that's it.
[21:01]Yes.
[21:02]That's it.
[21:03]Like, yeah.
[21:04]Oh, I love it.
[21:05]So let's talk about at the end of the book,
[21:07]you know, you do a good job.
[21:09]So you talk about little lovey.
[21:11]She makes a mess.
[21:13]And then she's cleaning it up.
[21:14]I love also the moment of just reconciliation
[21:18]with her mom or not even reconciliation.
[21:20]But just, you know, that she's getting that forgiveness
[21:23]that she needs to give herself.
[21:24]There's just so many lovely lessons.
[21:28]In this book that aren't too heavy handed,
[21:29]which I really appreciate
[21:31]because sometimes it can get too,
[21:34]too explicitly stated.
[21:36]And then we kind of lose magic of it.
[21:38]So you did a really nice job with that.
[21:40]What for you?
[21:41]So then at the end,
[21:42]we're talking about you give a nice little disclaimer
[21:45]about first about Jalof Rice
[21:48]and then about the what good trouble actually is.
[21:52]So what do you hope,
[21:53]like what's your definition of good trouble?
[21:56]I think good trouble is the type of trouble
[21:57]that makes the world better than we found it,
[21:59]or the room that we are in better.
[22:02]So, you know, I told the kids to be their best selves
[22:07]to say kind things and then to speak up
[22:10]when they see something unfair, if they feel safe.
[22:13]You know, because I know kids hear trouble.
[22:16]And I'm also trying to redefine the word trouble
[22:18]and trouble maker
[22:20]because often it's attached to people
[22:22]in a way that weaponizes and dehumanizes them.
[22:26]Like I think your trouble can be good
[22:29]in a world that's deeply unjust.
[22:31]So encouraging kids that yes,
[22:33]sometimes when you do make a mess,
[22:35]sometimes when you do get in trouble,
[22:37]sometimes it's necessary trouble.
[22:38]Like the late great John Lewis said,
[22:41]so I wanted to leave them with that guy
[22:43]that like this is something
[22:44]you can channel your energy to make the world better,
[22:47]to make your community better,
[22:49]make your family better.
[22:51]I think that's a valuable message for them.
[22:54]I, when you were a little trouble maker,
[22:59]what was, do you have a memory of something like this happening
[23:03]or was it a regular occurrence for you?
[23:07]Oh, I got in trouble for my mouth all the time when I was little.
[23:10]I was definitely the kid that got in trouble
[23:13]for saying stuff she wasn't supposed to say
[23:14]because what happened was,
[23:16]so I had an older brother who I considered my harsh nemesis.
[23:19]Oh, as older brothers are, right?
[23:21]Obviously.
[23:23]Like what older brothers are our first harsh nemesis?
[23:26]Come on, so I happen to be also be the person
[23:30]who always had to defend herself.
[23:34]So when my brother would do or say something to me
[23:36]when he thought my mom wasn't watching
[23:38]and I would respond back often disrespectfully
[23:41]on some like you can catch this smoke.
[23:44]I'd get in trouble for that.
[23:45]And then I'd get upset because I'd be like,
[23:47]but he should have gotten in trouble first
[23:50]because he did this thing to me.
[23:53]Yeah, I was that kid who was like,
[23:55]that just wasn't even fair.
[23:56]You didn't even ask my side.
[23:58]And then what's funny is after I would get
[24:00]my whatever punishment,
[24:01]I would go back to my mom and be like,
[24:02]you owe me an apology.
[24:05]I just started.
[24:08]Like I wish I was lying, I am not lying.
[24:11]I would literally go to my mom and be like,
[24:12]mom, you should say you're sorry to me.
[24:15]That was poor parenting on your part, mom.
[24:17]What?
[24:19]No, I would be like, how dare you?
[24:21]How dare you punish me?
[24:24]When you didn't even ask for my side.
[24:26]And she would just like, look at me with Marvel
[24:29]because she's like, not this tiny person telling me
[24:33]that I owe her an apology.
[24:35]Oh, yeah, no, I was bold.
[24:37]I was bold.
[24:40]What kind of mom was she in those moments?
[24:43]Or just in general,
[24:44]like what kind of, what are the things that you took from her?
[24:47]My mom, oh my gosh.
[24:49]So in those moments, the gift was that she actually didn't
[24:52]have me getting further trouble
[24:53]for telling her, go tell me, sorry.
[24:55]Like I didn't get the further trouble with that,
[24:56]which is also, she's created a monster.
[24:59]Because,
[25:00]they, she really let it get out of control.
[25:03]She really, come on.
[25:05]She was just kind of like, laugh me off
[25:08]and just tell me, okay, go stay down somewhere
[25:09]and go continue what you were doing, right?
[25:11]Yes.
[25:12]So I didn't get punished for using my voice advocate
[25:14]for myself in that way to hurt,
[25:16]which was gift.
[25:16]And I was like, well, my voice matters, okay, cool.
[25:19]So my mom was very much like,
[25:21]she's very protective of me, I was the baby.
[25:23]So of course, come on,
[25:24]the baby gets away with murder.
[25:26]And I was really freaking cute.
[25:28]Like, yeah.
[25:29]But overall, I was actually a really like,
[25:32]well-behaved kid.
[25:34]Like, I got great, great grades in school.
[25:37]I did my homework without being prompted.
[25:39]Like, I was a kid who would come home,
[25:40]drop my bag, pull out my homework, finish it,
[25:42]and bingo play.
[25:44]So, you know, I gave her a lot of reasons
[25:47]to trust me and to really kind of let me do my thing.
[25:51]Cause, and then the trouble that I got into
[25:53]was not like big trouble.
[25:54]I wasn't touching fire or put myself in danger.
[25:56]I was just using my voice.
[25:58]And yeah, so she kind of,
[26:01]she showed me what it was like to be kind.
[26:03]She gave me grace often.
[26:05]She protected me.
[26:07]So it made me feel like I got into the world
[26:09]and do big things.
[26:12]Yeah, that's really neat to hear.
[26:15]I love to hear what people got from their parents
[26:19]because it sounds like she gave you,
[26:21]it sounds like she let you be you.
[26:23]And give you the guardrails for that
[26:26]to happen in a way that worked
[26:30]and didn't cause you problems outside of things.
[26:33]Yeah, she was really kind.
[26:35]And I think above all,
[26:36]that's one of the things I've gotten from my mom the most,
[26:38]like her deep kindness.
[26:41]Like my mom is such a given person.
[26:44]She will, she would give you the shirt off her bag
[26:46]if he said you liked it.
[26:47]My grandmother was the same way.
[26:49]So like from them, I know, like I was like, okay,
[26:51]I have to be kind.
[26:52]Like I have to give people things that I have in abundance.
[26:56]I have to do my part to be better.
[26:59]I have to make a room better.
[27:00]I have to be really nice to people.
[27:02]I make sure like if somebody needs money
[27:05]and I have a lot of money,
[27:06]I should give them some of mine.
[27:07]So all of that I actually really learned from my mom.
[27:10]And I think that was at the core.
[27:11]That's always been at the core of my troublemaking.
[27:14]And that's oftentimes at the core of when kids
[27:17]are trying to do something nice with somebody,
[27:19]it's just this deep kindness.
[27:21]They just want to give back.
[27:22]So yeah.
[27:24]Yeah.
[27:25]Oh, I love that you had space for that.
[27:27]How did you get into writing originally?
[27:30]What is, and what does writing,
[27:32]how does it feed you now?
[27:35]Oh, man.
[27:36]So I started blogging 20 years ago.
[27:40]Exactly 20 years ago.
[27:41]I was in college.
[27:42]He was my freshman year in college.
[27:44]My friends peer pressured me to start in a blog.
[27:47]And then I started this blog and I never stopped writing.
[27:52]I fell in love with writing outside the classroom.
[27:55]And I think my writing really kind of took hold.
[27:57]Like one of my friends ends up being editor
[27:59]in chief of the school paper.
[28:01]And she's like, I want you to be an advice column.
[28:04]What's funny is that advice column is very parallel
[28:09]to my first ever book.
[28:11]I'm judging you because I used to write it
[28:13]at the back of the school paper.
[28:14]Every Wednesday it come out.
[28:16]People would stop me on campus and be like,
[28:18]I read your advice column.
[28:19]That was great.
[28:21]So yeah, all these different breadcrumbs
[28:25]of the fact that I was supposed to be a writer,
[28:27]started in college.
[28:29]I've always been in honor of English classes.
[28:30]So I actually really started in high school.
[28:32]Okay.
[28:33]So maybe I guess elementary school.
[28:35]I've always been a really good writer, I guess.
[28:36]Because my first course in high school,
[28:39]freshman year, first day was out of English.
[28:43]So I've been molded by the teachers around me.
[28:45]Like librarians have been big.
[28:47]Like my seventh grade teacher was my favorite teacher ever.
[28:49]She was my first English teacher that really like
[28:52]said your work is good.
[28:53]And I'm like, oh, like my grades were off the chain
[28:56]because she's like, yep, you can write.
[28:58]But I didn't take it as anything.
[29:00]But I think college when I started writing outside
[29:03]of the classroom and then my deep love of writing to go over
[29:06]and I realized it was my purpose.
[29:08]So use my words to shift the world, shift the wound,
[29:12]not even the world.
[29:12]I just wanted to shift the wound.
[29:14]Yeah.
[29:15]Does that feel like, are you working on another book
[29:19]for adults?
[29:20]May I ask?
[29:21]Or are we, yes.
[29:22]Okay.
[29:23]I will give y'all that if I'm excited about that.
[29:27]So that's why they're going to be a 2025 book,
[29:29]but I do have basically happy dropping some things
[29:34]in the next couple of years.
[29:35]So exciting.
[29:37]I'm so glad.
[29:38]I love your writing.
[29:39]You have such a good balance for adults, too.
[29:42]I read, I'm judging you years ago and I just, I loved it.
[29:45]It's such a good, you have such a good way
[29:49]of delivering the hard truth without your kind in it.
[29:55]That's exactly what it is.
[29:56]So you're definitely achieving it.
[29:59]I'm glad that you're.
[30:00]I think that you are where you're meant to be.
[30:03]So that's always a good feeling.
[30:05]I mean, I fought it for him because I was like,
[30:06]how do riders make money?
[30:08]I don't know how riders make money.
[30:11]How do they buy shoes?
[30:12]I'm also like, who's gonna pay for my shoes?
[30:14]Is it my writing?
[30:16]And then eventually my writing started paying for my shoes.
[30:18]So I kept doing it.
[30:21]I'm glad that it has blossomed and paid for your shoes.
[30:24]But I have been still trying to figure out
[30:26]how I make money in this calculus.
[30:28]And I'm like, don't worry about it.
[30:29]It's fine.
[30:30]The math, it'll, the math will check out later.
[30:32]I don't worry about it, right?
[30:34]Like the math will map.
[30:35]Don't worry about it.
[30:36]Yes, the math will map.
[30:38]You're telling that next time.
[30:39]Yep, it's fine.
[30:40]Well, I got 10% off.
[30:41]It's like a making money and the math will.
[30:44]Hooray, exactly.
[30:46]Yeah.
[30:47]I think we could chop together.
[30:48]And I think it would be a disaster.
[30:49]It would be an actual disaster.
[30:51]My husband would be like, why did you do it?
[30:54]It would be just a ginormous dumpster fire for them.
[30:58]But it would be great for us.
[31:00]Okay.
[31:01]Yeah. And I am.
[31:02]It would be great for them.
[31:03]I think we can get it done.
[31:05]Sneakers, I can't wear fancy shoes.
[31:07]Oh, listen, I'm the queen of sneakers.
[31:09]I'm like a big sneaker head.
[31:10]I have like probably 150 pairs.
[31:12]Oh, this is just meant to be.
[31:14]I'm so excited.
[31:15]Yeah.
[31:16]Your thing is we haven't gone in.
[31:17]Absolutely.
[31:19]I love hearing about just this book and coming to life.
[31:22]So I guess my last question for you is
[31:26]as it makes its way into the world
[31:28]we're kind of on the cusp of it coming out.
[31:30]This podcast will come out a little bit later,
[31:32]but I'm so excited.
[31:33]What do you hope for little troublemaker makes a mess?
[31:38]What would be your vision of this is what I want it to do?
[31:42]I want this book to transform little kids.
[31:48]And by transform, I mean, I want them to read it
[31:51]and feel seen, feel loved, feel affirmed.
[31:56]And they go, that's me.
[31:58]So when I did a parents.com actually launched the cover
[32:04]and the journalist is a mom of two and they're four and six.
[32:09]So she was actually, they were the first kids
[32:11]to read this book.
[32:12]And she said when she got to the part
[32:15]where little lovey was like, I'm not a baby,
[32:17]she said her daughter was like, I say that.
[32:21]I was like, yes, yes.
[32:23]So that's what I want.
[32:24]I want them to feel seen.
[32:26]I want them to normalize and know that their energy.
[32:28]Like there's other people like them in the world.
[32:30]If they feel different, I want them to go,
[32:32]oh, I'm not so different.
[32:35]Little lovey's just like me too.
[32:37]And she acts like me and she'll,
[32:40]I would do that too.
[32:40]How I did that before.
[32:42]And I think that's even powerful.
[32:43]So that's the transformation I want.
[32:45]Just for them to go, there's somebody else like me
[32:49]who thinks like me, who acts like me
[32:50]and they're also loveable and they're also amazing.
[32:54]So I am too.
[32:56]I want to be a reflection for them.
[32:58]Well, I do think it will be.
[33:00]So I think you've done a wonderful job
[33:02]and I can't wait for the world to have it.
[33:04]And thanks so much for talking with me today.
[33:06]This was so much fun.
[33:08]And I'll just, I mean, we'll schedule our shopping date later.
[33:12]I mean, seriously, anytime, I am always a queen of shoes.
[33:17]Like you can DM me and I'll be like,
[33:19]what shoes are you looking for?
[33:20]Because I'll send you a link.
[33:21]I am the enabler of shoe purchases.
[33:23]Oh, perfect.
[33:25]It's meant to me.
[33:27]It is meant to me.
[33:28]Have you seen my shoe Instagram?
[33:30]No.
[33:31]How have I not?
[33:32]You don't know I have a shoe Instagram?
[33:35]I feel I'm getting sweaty right now.
[33:38]Oh my gosh, okay.
[33:39]I'm right after this.
[33:41]How did I miss this?
[33:43]I have an Instagram that is literally dedicated
[33:45]to my shoe closet.
[33:46]It is at must love shoes.
[33:48]Okay.
[33:49]At must love shoes.
[33:50]And the love is L-U-V-V.
[33:52]Literally, I post random pictures of me and my random shoes
[33:55]because now I use it as like a shoe catalog for myself.
[33:57]When I'm getting dressed, I'll sometimes crawl through
[33:59]and be like, which shoes I want to wear today?
[34:01]It's like clueless on your phone and social media.
[34:05]I'm telling you literally the account only,
[34:08]it only exists to document my shoes.
[34:13]That is the only purpose.
[34:15]Oh, well, I'm on it.
[34:16]I mean, and I feel like we've done
[34:17]every one of public service by sharing this today.
[34:20]Must love shoes, L-U-V-V, that's what I mean.
[34:23]You heard it here first.
[34:25]I mean, you heard it.
[34:25]Come on, Julie, I'm gonna be spending your money.
[34:28]I'm actually gonna be spending your money.
[34:29]I just want you to know.
[34:30]I can't wait.
[34:31]It's gonna be great.
[34:32]Tell your husband, I'm sorry.
[34:34]And I'm not really sorry.
[34:35]No, I won't even believe it's okay.
[34:37]Yeah, it's fine.
[34:38]It's fine.
[34:39]It's fine.
[34:40]It's fine.
[34:41]Well, thank you so much for the time
[34:43]and best of luck with the book.
[34:45]Can't wait to see it in the world.
[34:47]Thank you so much, Julie.
[34:48]And thank you for your work.
[34:49]You know, I was telling you that like librarians
[34:52]are amazing.
[34:52]Y'all do such thankless work and creating space
[34:55]that exists just to pour words into people
[34:59]is kind of magical.
[35:01]So you're doing magical work every single day.
[35:04]So I really appreciate librarians everywhere.
[35:07]Well, thank you.
[35:08]It's my joy.
[35:09]So thank you, friend.
[35:11]Yes, indeed.
[35:12]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[35:15]Don't have time to read books.
[35:16]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[35:19]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[35:22]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[35:24]and sign up for my virtual book club
[35:26]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[35:28]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[35:30]in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[35:32]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[35:34]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.