Laura Dern and Diane Ladd, HONEY, BABY, MINE: A Mother and Daughter Talk Life, Death, Love (and Banana Pudding)
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag, where we have lots of wonderful essays and
[0:30]lifestyle features.
[0:31]That's at zippymag.com.
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[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018, and no matter what
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[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Today's episode is a special mother daughter recording with Laura Dern and her mother
[1:09]Dan Lad.
[1:10]This is such a privilege to interview these two complete superstars.
[1:14]Laura Dern and their book is called Honey Baby Mine, A Mother and Daughter Talk Life, Death,
[1:19]Love, and Banana Pudding.
[1:21]Laura Dern is a three-time Academy Award nominee who won a best supporting actress Oscar
[1:27]for her performance and no a bomb-backs film marriage story.
[1:31]She is also an Emmy, Golden Globe, SAG, and BAFTA Award winner who has touched audiences
[1:36]and critics alike with her moving and heartfelt performances.
[1:39]In addition to her extensive film and television credits, Laura has been prolific in her
[1:44]producing career.
[1:45]In 2017, she established J. Walker Pictures, a Los Angeles-based production company founded
[1:50]with partner Jamie Lemmons with emphasis on great storytelling and film and television.
[1:55]From 2016 to 2020, she also served on the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences
[2:01]Board of Governors representing the actress branch.
[2:04]Additionally, she has served on the Board of Trustees for the Academy Museum of Motion
[2:07]Pictures since 2019, and of course, she was in big little lies the hit show with Reese
[2:14]Witherspoon.
[2:15]Her mother, Diane Lad, is an actress, writer, director, and author and winner of over
[2:20]57 International Awards, including the British Academy Award, Golden Globe Award, Independent
[2:25]Spirit Film Award, and the Ken Palm Door Award.
[2:29]She's been nominated for three Emmy Awards and three Academy Awards for the film's
[2:33]Alice Doesn't Live Here anymore, Wild at Heart, and Rambling Rose.
[2:37]In Rambling Rose, she and her daughter, Laura, made show business history as the first
[2:42]mother-daughter duo to earn nominations for the same film.
[2:45]The late Princess Diana chose this film as one of her all-time favorites and honored
[2:50]it with a London royal premiere and a party in their honor.
[2:53]Diane has authored the book's spiraling through the School of Life, a mental, physical,
[2:57]and spiritual discovery.
[2:59]Find Your Miracles, endorsed by Marianne Williamson, Stephen King, Whoopi Goldberg, and
[3:03]others.
[3:04]Winner of the 2014 Tennessee Williams Literary Award, she was honored at their festival
[3:08]in New Orleans for a bad afternoon for a piece of cake, a collection of ten short stories.
[3:14]Aside from seminars on acting, with a master's in esoteric psychology and a certificate
[3:18]in nutrition, she lectures across the nation on spiritual and health matters for the
[3:22]medical and late community at large, wind time permits, a member of the National Board
[3:26]of Directors of the Screen Actors Guild.
[3:28]Diane is president of the Art and Culture Task Force, a 501c3 that promotes culture and
[3:33]arts and schools across America.
[3:36]She is a proud grandmother as well.
[3:38]Enjoy our very special episode.
[3:41]Welcome Laura and Diane.
[3:42]Thank you so much for this very special episode with both of you for moms.
[3:46]Don't have time to read books about honey, baby mine, your beautiful book.
[3:51]Thank you.
[3:52]We're so honored to be here.
[3:54]I love the title of your show.
[3:56]Mom, don't have time to read books.
[3:58]That's true.
[3:59]And we need to a book and take you right out of your body.
[4:03]If you leave 50 miles away from where you live, your energy is supposed to relax.
[4:08]So reading a book is the same thing.
[4:10]It helps your everything just detach and then you can be more objective, I think.
[4:16]What do you think, Laura?
[4:17]Totally.
[4:18]I mean, honestly, I just said to a girlfriend that I can't remember when I have read
[4:25]a book since I became a mother that wasn't connected to work.
[4:30]Well, like just for pure pleasure, I mean, what's amazing is my mom raised me on movies,
[4:36]but she also raised me on the love of reading, but my mom is a worker.
[4:42]So reading for mom was because she was getting her degree in esoteric astrology and because
[4:48]she want to know about the world and she was reading about nutrition as you.
[4:51]So I always talk about how mom always, which is why we have photos of our bedside tables
[4:57]in the book because I remember her bedside table always having five books, but the books
[5:03]are like earmarked and high lit and read over and over again.
[5:08]And I have that with a few authors that I love so much, but other than that, the luxury
[5:15]of taking the time to read is, you know, I think being raised by an actor too was always
[5:25]connected to research or if you're lucky or, you know, working on a memoir or something
[5:32]where you get to read more and more of the lives or in and around the time period that
[5:38]people had been living.
[5:40]And so it takes up so much time.
[5:42]I thought when people are like, oh my god, I just grabbed a book at the airport.
[5:47]And it was so amazing that I just got on that plane and I'm like, I get on that plane.
[5:51]I feel like I always have like seven things to read just to catch up or emails or things.
[5:57]So I'm really, you've inspired me just as the reminder as your show does, which is beautiful.
[6:05]Well, but a book, a book like yours is an example of why it's important to read.
[6:10]I mean, yours is unique, right?
[6:11]There aren't a lot of books where you are essentially transcribing the most meaningful
[6:15]walks of your life.
[6:16]How lucky that you have a record of that.
[6:19]It's really a gift to you both, but to everyone who reads it.
[6:22]And this book is like, it's almost like an audiobook in paper, if you will, right?
[6:26]It's special.
[6:29]And you can read just a little and it changes your whole point of view.
[6:32]And that's really powerful.
[6:34]Oh, well, that's so beautiful.
[6:36]And one thing I think we loved is, you know, it was its own one act play in our life,
[6:44]right?
[6:45]That it had this journey and it was two people talking.
[6:49]And if we were going to share it, we wanted it to hold not only the essence of our experience,
[6:54]but hopefully the influence on others to do the same with their loved ones in their relationships.
[7:00]So the idea that you can capture it in that way as you described is so meaningful.
[7:05]Well, we didn't plan to write a book.
[7:08]It's happened to make our angels planned it for us.
[7:11]We just kind of went with the flow of the river.
[7:14]So to speak, we just, you know, you won't explain it, Laura, how we got into this?
[7:21]Well, you know, mom went through the most brutal time of her life unknowingly as so many
[7:28]many Americans do, which is she was not being notified while neighbors were spraying
[7:36]and neighboring farms were spraying petrochemicals and pesticides, glyphosate, Dan at all.
[7:41]The most horrific poisons daily even in and around her property.
[7:46]Over three years, I didn't know it.
[7:49]And you want to share mom what made us wake up to why you were having all these sudden
[7:53]health issues.
[7:54]Oh, my beautiful dog, she's a King Charles Cavalier, this dog, and she was our dog.
[8:01]And the TV series we did together called Enlightened, the dog was part of the series.
[8:06]And then they thought she was getting deaf.
[8:09]So I took her, but she had already starred in three children's movies.
[8:13]She her name was Ginger.
[8:15]She's a wonderful creature.
[8:18]She was like a little girl.
[8:19]She crawled up on the bed and put her little head right on my shoulder.
[8:23]And she was so wonderful, wonderful.
[8:26]And she went out one day and midnight to go to the bathroom for just a few minutes.
[8:32]She got this due, had spray in it already and then it got on her paws and she just was
[8:39]out there a little bit when she came back in.
[8:43]She had three seizures one after another and she died horribly in my arms.
[8:48]It was like tragic, a horrible tragedy, but her death saved my life.
[8:55]She gave up her life from mine and it basically quite a thing about it because it just
[9:01]woke up and I'm a little tired today, but thinking about little Ginger, she was so, so
[9:07]she said, I'll see her again someday, because she's going to go woof, woof to me again
[9:11]someday.
[9:12]But in the meantime, I found out what was making me sick and had been going home for
[9:17]three years.
[9:18]I didn't know I was getting sprayed by seven farms around me and nobody, nobody knew
[9:23]I could go to a commission and none of the people we pay their taxes to look out for
[9:27]us, their salaries.
[9:28]Nobody told me anything and that's not right.
[9:31]That's not right.
[9:32]So I ended up in the hospital in pneumonia and very, very ill and Laura, you want to kill
[9:38]them then what happened?
[9:39]Yeah, then the lung specialist took me aside, but as my, you know, five feet from my mom
[9:46]mom, so she could see him talking to me and he said, be gentle with your mother.
[9:51]She has three to six months at most and I said, what are we doing?
[9:57]What is the prognosis?
[9:59]What is the plan?
[10:00]He clearly established there was a diagnosis of a lung disease based on scarring of the lungs
[10:07]from environmental exposure. And it's happening every day to so many people. But there's no
[10:14]medicine for it. And there's no cure, but well, supposedly, unless you fight as hard as mom does.
[10:22]But the one thing that he offered me was if you can get her walking to expand her lung capacity,
[10:29]that might help. So we began the journey of walking. I'm not a big fan of walking. I'd rather dance.
[10:38]Laura had to really entice me to do these walks. And we started walking a little bit more every day.
[10:45]And I remember I've told this before when my shoelace came on tide. And I looked down and she was
[10:51]tying my shoelace. And I said, oh honey, you don't have to do that. And she looked up at me with her big
[10:58]beautiful blue eyes and said, why not mom? You tagged my shoelace and when I was little,
[11:05]now turn about to fair play. It's my time to help tell your shoelace. And I just,
[11:11]I just couldn't get over there. But that gave me a little, I wasn't going to say I was too lazy
[11:15]to walk then or I have to. But given that mom being an amazing actor, but also someone who has
[11:23]has the love of story, I knew it could keep her going and keep her distracted, frankly,
[11:30]to just start sharing stories. But what happened was we realized how little we had spoken about
[11:39]in either the most mundane spaces or the deepest and most painful memories. And so we explored
[11:47]all of it as an archive for her grandkids. And as you say, mom, you know, you thought you were dying.
[11:54]I thought I was dying as four years ago, but instead of dying, I started two movies,
[12:01]did a TV series and wrote a book. Thanks to inspiration, walking, faith. And you know, you can
[12:09]almost do anything you believe in in life, as long as it's not something that hurts somebody else.
[12:15]And if it doesn't happen for you, I believe in dreams and fighting for those dreams, never give
[12:19]up, never. But I also believe that sometimes maybe the universe has a different path for you
[12:26]and there's lessons that we have to learn along the way for sure, just like our children go to
[12:31]school and learn lessons. Well, life is a school. And fortunately, it seems like very few people
[12:36]graduating, huh? But it seems like I lived. And the more I'm glad I did. And here I am.
[12:44]And we didn't plan to write a book. It was her agent that said, I think, you guys have a book
[12:49]and we said, we don't have a book. And because I am a writer and Laura's writer. And then
[12:56]when we decided five publishers wanted the book. And then well, after that, we spent over a year and
[13:03]a half, we had 420 pages once we translated. But we had to edit it and make sure that the
[13:11]communication would reach others and the whole book since we are communicating to the book is
[13:16]about communicating. The book nobody's asking each other the questions today. You know, the book is
[13:22]not a Hollywood book. The book is about life, about people. And yes, we share the art of our work
[13:30]as the same way of we will lawyers and doctors or planet roses or whatever. We talked to you
[13:35]about our work. We love the work. I'm not always a fan of the business, but I love my work.
[13:42]The gifts. And so we share that. But we we talk about experiences, the same experiences that all of
[13:49]us human beings have. And parents lie to their kids. They don't tell them the truth. And then the
[13:56]kids because they want to be loved and adored. You don't tell your kid all the truth. And then
[14:00]your child doesn't tell you all the truth because they want to be loved and adored. And then when
[14:06]the mother father go on, they say, Oh, I wish I to ask my mom that I hear it all the time. I wish
[14:13]my daddy. But the book is for fathers and sons, for brothers and sisters, friends, people talk to
[14:22]and you don't have to agree with each other. Stop feeling like somebody beats you to death
[14:28]because they don't agree with you. Lauren, I disagree a lot in the board. And we have an argument
[14:34]that is called argument. We still disagree. And I say, what do we say, Laura?
[14:40]Oh, I was right.
[14:43]Some tell everybody who read the book to vote. I want to tell me if you think I'm right.
[14:50]Tell me if you think I'm right. It's okay. We still don't agree, but that's okay.
[14:55]But I think also what we got to is that the book is not there to be an archived reminder that
[15:03]people have to forgive. For many families, that is not a possibility. And it's appropriate
[15:11]that it's not a possibility. And people have to find their own boundaries and their own healing
[15:16]sometimes, despite family. But if you are in relationships where you are safe to share your feelings,
[15:26]and someone can give you a listening ear, even if you're not going to get to forgiveness or agreeing,
[15:33]you can accept knowing the other person. And I haven't told you about it yet. I just got a text
[15:41]from a friend who just read the book mom, his amazing woman. And I was worried about sending it to
[15:48]her because her mom had passed quite recently. And she wrote me and she said, I want to thank you
[15:56]because I was holding on to a lot of resentment because I found out some secrets after my mom passed.
[16:08]And they've been really weighing on me. Very, very hurtful things. And she said, but when I
[16:14]listened to you and your mom talking about the guilt or the shame of parenting and not wanting
[16:21]to give your child room to say, hey, that hurt, she said something opened up in me. And I realized
[16:28]how much shame my mom was holding on to if she hadn't been able to share these things with me.
[16:34]And it made me soften toward my mother. And so I've had so much healing without her here.
[16:40]And that really touched me because it, you know, as I've told mom, it's been impactful for
[16:48]my children as siblings. They've been saying they've been asking each other more questions and
[16:52]checking in with each other differently. And I just, you know, I hope that all ages reach out in
[16:59]their relationships, whatever they are to check in. Someone said to me the other day,
[17:05]I don't know how to admit this, but I don't know what it is about the world or my life,
[17:10]but I'm feeling really anxious these days. And I just started laughing so hard. I was like,
[17:16]what human being on the planet in the last few years has not basically developed generalized anxiety
[17:24]of every age. I just, there's too much. So if we don't tell each other, we think we're
[17:30]the only ones feeling like this. So hopefully it can inspire in a lot of different kinds of relationships.
[17:36]Oh, it's telling Zippy, well, wait until we were chatting a little bit. And I just told that
[17:40]I had said to you that if we could get one person talking to someone they love to whom they
[17:47]weren't talking before, and at least trying to listen, not just with your ear, but with the ear
[17:53]of your heart. I said, we've done something to help this old planet of ours. And we've already had
[17:59]a couple responses that we reached out. And then it's it's just been wonderful to know that
[18:07]someone else is listening and then develop the ability to listen to a loved one that makes
[18:13]all of it worthwhile. Because if I had a gone through that being sprayed and almost died,
[18:19]this book would not have gotten written. And I guess they just wanted us to do right. And sometimes
[18:25]we don't know why our life takes a curve way off the path. And we think, why, what are you doing,
[18:32]God? Why? What's happening? Why me? What? But there are all reasons for things. And if you're
[18:37]just a little patient, sometimes you'll find out why. You know? Well, I think one of, and thank you
[18:43]for all of that. I think one of the most beautiful parts of the book was how over the course of
[18:49]the walks, you could see the two of you, but having the barriers sort of come down a little bit
[18:55]and sharing more and more and getting past some of the more not superficial, but the into the
[19:02]real depth of your relationship and how each of you felt sort of in similar situations, the back
[19:08]story. I mean, I think people can be very quick to assume they know what's what other people are
[19:12]thinking of feeling even people close to us. But then when you really ask and take the time to
[19:16]think about it, it has really pays off. And I think also how the two of you over the course of the
[19:24]walks got to a place where you could process all of that sort of unprocessed grief and connection
[19:31]and things that just weren't talked about. I mean, to me, I was crying by the time I got to that,
[19:37]and especially Diane when you said that, you know, maybe that's why your lungs hurt because
[19:42]you're holding in so much grief. It was just wearing away your lungs. I mean, I could cry just
[19:47]even like saying it out loud. It was so beautiful. Women do hold grief. The breast, for example,
[19:55]for a symbolized, I meant men hold it to the kidneys.
[20:00]is a symbol of grief, of grief unreleased in the organs in our body, but the
[20:05]breast particularly for women is where women hold in a lot of grief and sometimes
[20:11]it's hard to let it go because we're sensitive and we give milk to our babies
[20:16]and love and and our breasts are close so close to the heart, but it's true that
[20:22]we do hold in grief and talking, you know, I love that book met from, met her from Mars,
[20:30]her from Venus, he talked a lot. I was a friend, he was a friend of mine and we talked,
[20:36]he talked a lot about women just want to talk it out. We need to get it out. We need
[20:42]a sisterhood or someone. We don't want them to fix it. Just listen, let us talk, let us talk,
[20:49]talk, talk, talk, talk, please, but men are wonderful. They want to fix it. We don't want to fix
[20:54]it. We just want to be heard. We'll fix it if you let us talk about it long enough.
[21:01]So I think that Lauren and I did fix it through our talks, things that we had didn't realize
[21:08]that I didn't realize that when things I didn't know about my own daughter having raised her,
[21:13]I thought I knew it all. Well, I don't know it all. And she realized, Lauren, tell me how you
[21:19]realized how many things you hadn't asked me. That was interesting. Yeah, I was saying, you know,
[21:25]and and thank you for for bringing up, you know, the the depth of sharing that the book goes
[21:33]into in terms of, you know, unexamined grief with a loved one, especially for my parents'
[21:43]generation who, when going through heartbreak and grief and loss, there was no grief counseling set up
[21:52]easily, easily accessible, find a therapist online. You didn't know what to do or where to turn
[21:59]or that you could talk about it. And my parents in the financial situation they were in as
[22:03]working actors to pay the rent had to go right back to work. There was as you say mom, you know,
[22:10]no time to, you know, pull down the shades and shut life out, you know, and so as profound as it was
[22:19]to share the hardest of things, even our seemingly surface silly conversations about likes and
[22:28]dislikes and what's your favorite food, what's your favorite color? They brought us to such
[22:34]palpable awareness at how little we ask, including I'm an actor raised by an actor, mother,
[22:42]and I had never asked my mom, what's the first movie you ever saw or who was the artist that made
[22:48]you want to do this from this tiny town in Mississippi? Were your parents supportive? You know,
[22:55]how did I not think of talking about those things with my mom, but I didn't, nor my father,
[23:02]you know, I just sort of accepted the stories I was told as a kid instead of digging deeper and
[23:09]I think, you know, and also how absurd. I remember once an elderly couple at a restaurant we had met
[23:18]my kid's father and I and we were traveling for his work and my daughter was asking all kinds of
[23:26]questions, you know, well, what books do you like read? What's your favorite movie? Who's your favorite
[23:30]actor? And the gentleman said, what a precocious child. Children should be seen and not heard.
[23:40]And I was like, boy, I didn't that line always get us into so much trouble and toxicity.
[23:46]And we got into this great argument. And then he admitted that he'd said it because he was always
[23:54]embarrassed that his mother told him he was a talker and that that wasn't respectful.
[24:01]Oh boy. Oh my gosh. And so what was incredible was because also I did it sort of laughing.
[24:07]Like, oh, here we go. Yeah, we all know that one is supposed to don't say that to my kid or whatever.
[24:13]And we all discovered all this language that has stopped us from asking the questions.
[24:20]We didn't just get here, culturally, all not asking each other. There's a reason we didn't
[24:26]don't ask your mother, you know, you're the child. I'm the parent, like all this
[24:31]absurdity that stopped us from deeply knowing each other and creating pattern for our children
[24:37]and their lives of asking the questions of being fearless, of being boundlyless in that way.
[24:44]Also, Lauren, the difficulty of trying to survive that people are going through today.
[24:50]Sometimes there's no time to cry. There's no time to laugh. And we can't allow that to happen to
[24:57]the human family. We have to reach out with a hug in our heart for each other because we are a
[25:04]family. We are humanity. And we forget this. And, you know, parents forget, you want your child
[25:13]to stand on your shoulders in the hopes that they can see further than we have,
[25:18]so that we keep evolving and growing. Because if the child sees further than you have,
[25:22]then someday this whole human race might really become humane. And that's the goal that we're after,
[25:29]our humanness and not go backwards. There's always two steps forward, step backward.
[25:34]Well, the step back with the past three years has been really rough for a lot of people.
[25:39]And now we need to be kinder each other. We need to stop judging each other so harshly. That's
[25:45]outdated, just like dog boys don't cry. The whole stuff in to stuff themselves up and not shed
[25:52]tears ridiculous. And that's all outdated. You know, you don't judge a book by its cover.
[25:59]You don't know after that cover. If it's not a book you'd like or a wonderful book on those
[26:05]pages inside. By the way, my book, our book is a very good book to give you a month of a month
[26:11]this is day because it's a book of love within the pages of searching, a book of hope within the
[26:19]pages of searching. And it's Laura, tell me about the end. You've got to have asked questions.
[26:24]Listen, I'm going to have to say goodbye to you guys because I have a beautiful little dog. Her name is
[26:30]Abby. She's a heaven. He's have two doggies. I have a lot of dogs in heaven at 87. I have a lot of
[26:36]dogs in heaven. So when I go to the other side, I'm going to hear a lot of good old
[26:41]love. But my little doggy, we found out yesterday, she's sick. So I say a little prayer for
[26:49]Abby. I have to take her back to the vet right now. I just wish you all fulfillment of destiny
[26:59]with so much joy and so much love for your highest good. All of your readers out there
[27:06]and I say readers because you say, we should read a book. God bless you. You guys keep talking,
[27:13]forgive me if I haven't believed early. But I got to go with a little Abby. All right. Love you.
[27:18]I love you guys. I love you. I love you. So sweet. Oh my gosh. It's just an amazing journey.
[27:30]I mean, every step of this process has been, I may not have her every single step. I may not
[27:39]have her. So try to prolong her life. Let's get talking. Let's get her walking. And then I may not
[27:47]have her. Let's archive your stories for your grandkids. I may not have her purpose matters.
[27:54]Purpose has been mind blowing to witness in my 87 year old mother who will never retire,
[28:04]who loves her art just like my father. But as actors, there's time when you're not working. So
[28:11]what's the purpose? And this has given her purpose, purpose to be healthier, to be stronger,
[28:18]then to make it a book, then to share with other people now to do press where we're sharing with
[28:22]other people and hopefully it touches other people every day, there's purpose. And so if we can do
[28:30]anything for our elders, our parents, our grandparents, our friends, our neighbor down the street.
[28:41]As we all saw during COVID, like we all need purpose. And you know, I say this to any children
[28:48]and teenagers who can hear us talking and sharing or that we can remind that teenagers are locked
[28:57]in their rooms, locked to social media. And they've lost purpose. They're in a purpose of comparison
[29:07]that's based on false narrative that's presented to the world to like build a brand.
[29:13]There's not truth in that. And so all of us of every age, if you're 11, if you're 80,
[29:21]you need the purpose to help other people to get talking. When my kids were in second grade,
[29:26]our school program was the second graders had a senior buddy. And we went to assisted living home
[29:36]and they saw their buddy every week. And it was such an incredible program. I wish all schools had
[29:42]because those were such beautiful relationships. And you saw how the kids felt empowered
[29:49]and they were doing something special. And these elderly people, some of them who don't have
[29:55]relatives who were able to visit. And it was really touching.
[30:00]So that's been an amazing thing to watch.
[30:03]And now it's just a continual blessing, you know,
[30:05]that my mom's still here and we're able to talk about
[30:08]the book together.
[30:10]Well, it was great in the book how you could see her
[30:12]resistance even to the walking and how like as each
[30:17]chapter went on, she, the walking became more second
[30:20]nature and she wasn't fighting you as much.
[30:22]And as soon as you said, well, let's go back to the
[30:24]stories.
[30:25]Let's go back to acting.
[30:26]She would like light up.
[30:27]You could just see it on the page.
[30:28]So I think, yes, having, finding whatever it is that
[30:32]gets our own relatives as excited to talk.
[30:35]And sometimes people just want the chance to talk about
[30:38]themselves and their lives and feel like people care.
[30:41]Exactly.
[30:42]And when we're younger, sometimes it's like,
[30:46]ah, I've heard this story.
[30:48]Or I don't, you know, I don't want to do this.
[30:51]This is not comfortable.
[30:53]They're not going to see how wrong they were to A, B or C.
[30:58]And also, you know, when there's a family crisis or a
[31:03]health crisis, all that stuff floats away.
[31:07]It's just amazing that we don't let it float away in
[31:09]everyday life.
[31:11]You know, at the divide, the horrific divide more than
[31:14]ever in this country, you know, all the things all of us
[31:18]have thought hoping would never be something our
[31:22]children would even be aware of, you know, is
[31:25]them gender bias, all of it, you know what I mean?
[31:28]And that it's, that it's here in such devastating ways.
[31:32]And nobody's talking, you know, geopolitically, all of it.
[31:36]You know, so yeah, there's a lot to learn from what seems
[31:40]simple.
[31:40]Yes.
[31:41]And I love your questions at the end.
[31:43]I feel like the two of you should brand some like walking
[31:46]cards, you know, you can give it to people with like some of
[31:49]your, oh, that's such a sweet idea.
[31:53]Because nobody does that, right?
[31:54]There's like conversation at dinner cards, but people
[31:58]should go on walks and like maybe you log your walks or you
[32:00]log a friend.
[32:01]I don't know.
[32:01]I think you have like a real opportunity to take this, these
[32:05]walks.
[32:06]And even if it's every so often and even if it's just a few
[32:08]questions, really like motivate people to do it because
[32:12]it's, it's so important.
[32:14]All that's so beautiful.
[32:15]Thank you for that.
[32:16]Yeah, I know.
[32:17]I mean, I've received, you know, empowering advice,
[32:23]cards or in, you know, my relationship to loving Cheryl
[32:27]Strayed and her writing, you know, it would open up to a
[32:30]story in tiny beautiful things and just kind of come back to
[32:34]something that that became a touchstone, great, obviously
[32:37]poetry, sacred poetry, but, but the idea of prompts, which is
[32:42]what we wanted in the back of the book, having them as cards.
[32:45]I love that idea.
[32:47]That would be so cool.
[32:48]Okay, you can take that and run with it.
[32:50]Yes.
[32:51]Okay.
[32:51]Thank you.
[32:52]And thank you so much for coming on.
[32:55]I'm Strayed.
[32:55]Buggs, thank you to your mom and you.
[32:57]I mean, I really was so emotional reading this book and going
[33:01]through the whole journey.
[33:02]And then at the end, seeing the one picture of the two of
[33:04]you from behind walking in Santa Monica.
[33:07]Oh, my gosh.
[33:07]I, you know, so thank you.
[33:10]I really thank you.
[33:12]Thank you.
[33:12]Thank you for your amazing show.
[33:14]Thank you for inspiring us.
[33:17]And making us believe there's a space to give ourselves in
[33:21]all areas of life.
[33:23]You know, like I had my daughter do yoga with me early this
[33:27]morning, she's graduating high school and only a couple of
[33:31]weeks.
[33:32]And I was just like, she was like, I don't have time.
[33:35]I don't have time.
[33:35]I've got to go to school.
[33:36]And then we were doing and then the school played tonight.
[33:38]I was like, you have to carve out the time for yourself.
[33:42]So true.
[33:43]And just realizing I was not going to.
[33:46]But I did it because I wanted her to learn that we should.
[33:51]Since she's graduating in a couple of weeks, I've got, I've
[33:53]got two more weeks to like teach balance.
[33:56]Yeah, yeah.
[33:59]So it's, it's, you know, gorgeous that you're reminding all of
[34:02]us.
[34:02]So thank you so much.
[34:04]And yeah.
[34:05]And for your support and wisdom.
[34:07]Of course you too.
[34:08]All right.
[34:09]All right.
[34:09]Thank you.
[34:10]Take care.
[34:11]Bye.
[34:12]Bye.
[34:13]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[34:15]Don't have time to read books.
[34:17]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at the
[34:19]BONs and at Moms.
[34:21]Don't have time to read books.
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[34:26]book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[34:29]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing.
[34:33]And thank you to Morning Moon productions for providing this fantastic intro
[34:36]and now trim music.