Jill Biden, WHERE THE LIGHT ENTERS: Building a Family, Discovering Myself

[1:39]Zibby Owens: I'm Zibby Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books. This thirty minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 a year for about thirty minutes. I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction and memoir. Our books are already out now. You can check it out on zippybooks.com. And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle features. That's at zippymag.com. We have classes at zippyclasses.com. And I recently opened a bookstore in LA called Zibby's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in Santa Monica. I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings, but this here podcast is the basis of all of it Started in 2018, and no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing. Enjoy. So I'm starting something new, which is that on the weekends I'm going to be re releasing some amazing podcasts that maybe you haven't heard because you're a new listener, or maybe you heard it a couple years ago and you always wanted to hear it again but couldn't find it. So I'm kicking things off with Jill Biden, the first lady who I interviewed during the campaign, so she had not yet become the First Lady. And I interviewed her about her amazing memoir and we had a wonderful discussion. And whatever, I think it's really cool to interview the First Lady of The United States. So I hope you enjoy this episode of Jill Biden and me talking about her book. Her bio will follow and so will the episode. And tune in every weekend for two new re releases throughout the summer and enjoy. And of course five new episodes all week, every week. I did an Instagram live with Jill Biden this week, was so amazing. And I hope that you all really enjoy this episode because I had the best time getting to know her. Jill Biden is a community college professor and served as second lady of The United States from 2009 to 2017. And for those of you who have picked up on who she is, she's Jill Biden's wife and perhaps will be the next first lady. We'll see what happens. During the Obama Biden administration, she advocated for military families, community colleges, the fight against cancer, and the education of women and girls around the world. She continues this work today through the Biden Foundation, the Biden Cancer Initiative, and the Bo Biden Foundation for the Protection of Children. Doctor Biden is married to former vice president Joe Biden. Her book is called Where the Light Enters, Building a Family, Discovering Myself. It's a memoir, a New York Times bestseller, and just came out in paperback. So definitely read it. I read it. I half read it and half listened to the audiobook of it. I sort of interchanged them, and that was also really neat because she reads it herself. So enjoy. Hi.

[4:33]Jill Biden: Hi. Hello. We are in the middle of a gigantic storm. We've had a tornado watch all weekend. We've lost our power. I mean, all morning,

[4:43]Zibby Owens: we lost our power three times. So that's why we're a little bit late. Oh my gosh. Don't worry. I you know, we have a tornado warning here too, and I'm like, don't go out at 01:00. I can't lose my Wi Fi. Where are you? In DC or New York? We're out on Long Island in New York. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? It's crazy. Are you today? At our Wilmington home. Aw. Well, thanks so much for taking the time. Congratulations on your paperback release. Do you see it? I'm I'm wearing your matching sweater today. Oh, yes. I should have won it. We could have been, you know, twins. Could have been twins. This is such an amazing book. I mean, what a story. What a life you have led. It's truly remarkable. And you can just tell how I mean, this sounds so trite, but, like, you're such a good person and it comes through and like every story that you tell, it's just so nice to get to know you now in person as well or this way. Well, it's nice to meet you and thanks for doing this. Of course. So much to discuss. First, I just wanted to hear a little more about how much you love being a teacher because that's one of the things that came through so clear in the book. You wrote, I realized early on that teaching was more than a job for me. It goes much deeper than that. Being a teacher is not what I do, but who I am. So tell me a little about your love of teaching and what about it gets you so fired up? I've been teaching, I think this is year 30 six and it's just my

[6:07]Jill Biden: career. It's what I love doing. I mean, my grandmother was a teacher. And so I think for me, it's this sense of community that I feel in my classroom, that they're like a family to me. Try to create that that first week of school, get to know everybody's names. Have them get to know one another because I teach writing and writing is so personal that I think that they have to feel that they know somebody else in the classroom to read what they've written. They have to know their stories. Writing creates a vulnerability, I think. So I get to know my students really well. And I hear from my students all the time. They're texting me and emailing me and even though we're not back in school yet this semester. But I have to tell you Zibby, I'm taking certification so that I can teach online should I become First Lady. So Oh my, well that's exciting. Yeah, so that's my dream. But I did that all the eight years that I was second lady and I loved every minute of it and we made it work and so, you know, I'm hoping we can make it work again. So would the online component be because schools might not open or because the first lady can't teach in a public place or what the impetus be? Well, I mean, we're in such a precarious time right now. You know, every day, my phone is going crazy with my friends and my friends who are teachers and saying, what should we do? What should we do? And we have to listen to the scientists and the doctors. And when they tell us it's safe to go back, then I think that's okay to go back. But right now, the public schools don't have, a lot of them don't have the funding. And so they don't have, you know, maybe they don't have the masks to extra masks. I mean, many, you know yourself, I mean, kids forget everything, you know, they're going to forget their mask. So we need to have a supply of masks in every classroom. We need to socially distance. And you know how many kids are in a classroom. I mean, 25 to 35. It's going to be so, you know, it's hard to do that, to move these desks and then address all the students' needs. So,

[8:35]Zibby Owens: people, I mean, that's the big thing, right? We're in August and school is about to start. So I think that's the thing on everybody's mind. Like, what do we do? This is literally all I talk about. Well, there we go. Have four kids. They're at three different schools. You know, they all have different plans. I don't know what I agree with, what I don't. It's so hard. Every parent has to not only listen to the national advice, but the actual individual school advice and then listen to your heart. It is so hard. Mean, is like a tough time and for teachers too. I mean, educators as well.

[9:09]Jill Biden: I agree. I mean, that's why I say I'm hearing from a lot of teachers who are saying, gosh, we think right now, unless the doctor say it's okay to go back, should we really go back? Because then we have to go back into our own homes and take care of our families. There are a lot of decisions and that's why leadership is so important, isn't it? Really to know what to do, to give us advice and

[9:36]Zibby Owens: tell us the path to follow somebody we trust. Somebody in the comments is saying that you should be the Secretary of Education. Perhaps VP, you're still an open slot at this point, you know?

[9:50]Jill Biden: No, I love the classroom and that's where I want to be.

[9:55]Zibby Owens: Okay, fine. You wrote so beautifully in the book about parenting your way through uncertainty and through sorrow. I feel like uncertainty in particular at this time is what basically everybody is going through in every which way. You said parents are supposed to be the ones with the answers, the ones who can tell you that everything is going to be okay. But how do you make your children believe that things will work out when you aren't so sure that they will? When you have no answers, only sadness and confusion. So where have you come out on this? What

[10:26]Jill Biden: are we supposed to do? What do you think about it? You know, my mother was always so strong for me, always. And I always went to her with whatever problem I had or if I was trying to sort things out, she always gave me such great advice. And I depended so much on her. And so I think I want to be my mother was such a great role model for me that I want to be that for my children. And so I try very hard to take the lessons from her book, you know, and be strong and try to be resilient and try to just love them, you know, just love them through the tough times. And I think that's the role of a good mom.

[11:07]Zibby Owens: I think another thing that came through in your book is just buy a lot of candles to decorate your table because clearly, I want to go to your Thanksgiving and be like, come. Yes, come. You would probably say that because you have such an open door policy. But, you know, the importance of the small rituals too and the all the traditions of family, I feel like was something that came up over and over and how little things like having a catalog in the backseat of the car driving in Nantucket. Like, these things, sometimes the sum total of all these traditions make up a family. Yes. Right? Yeah. And don't kids love that? I mean, they love the

[11:46]Jill Biden: things that you do over and over again, year after year. Like at Easter, I get the clear jars and I fill them with jelly beans. And then I put the candles in the jelly beans and I put them down the table. Or just things that they always look forward to. And even if they're a little bit corny or the kids still love them. And I don't know about you, I'd still do stockings at Christmas and they still love the really funny stuff, the candy bars you stick in. Or We have a tradition where we always stick an orange. My grandma did this, always stick an orange in the toe. The kids kind of laugh at it. But if I didn't have that orange in there, they would be the first ones to tell me. So I think kids just love that kind of, I don't know, I think it provides structure, it provides comfort,

[12:36]Zibby Owens: the things that they're used to. I totally agree. Yes. And when everything around you changes, even down to the stores in your neighborhood,

[12:44]Jill Biden: Give me an example of something you do for your kids. We always do birthday breakfasts,

[12:50]Zibby Owens: which is something that my parents used to do for me. In fact, my husband is like, what's up with everybody eating cake for breakfast? I'm like, I don't know. I love that. We always do that. We have a cake and breakfast. I love that. And I decorate the whole kitchen. I have all the gifts waiting. So when you come down in the morning, it's like a whole big thing. There's like a banner. And yeah, in fact, in the next room, they're so into these celebrations now with so little else that goes on these days that we're celebrating the end of their pretend camp, which was just like one friend each. And we have a cake and my son now has put party hats all over the table. So after this, we're gonna have a celebration for that. So everything is a paper I should support the paper goods industry. Like, I should invest or something. Well, you know, today it's funny because today is Natalie's sixteenth birthday. She's Beau's oldest.

[13:40]Jill Biden: And so we every year, I have a pool party for her. So we had what, of course, Jo and I had to like stay away. We went down, she brought some friends over and they went swimming. I do the same thing. We have cake, we have balloons. It doesn't matter if your kids 16 or they're 36. If you don't have those balloons, it's like they're so disappointed. So I love that. So I love that birthday cake idea because what difference does it make if they, and that's one of the beauties I think of being a grandmother is when they come over and I have dessert for dinner, I say, I don't care, eat your dessert first. Like, what do I care? They're gonna eat all the dinner anyway. So what difference does the order make? But that's the beauty of being a grandmother. I don't think I'd ever do that as a mother. I feel like this pandemic has made me act more like a grandmother to my own kids. That I like were so strict at now. Like, I don't know. Is it a big deal? So Yeah. Because you have to be fun and creative because it's tough for them. This pandemic is really tough for our kids and they don't really understand a lot about it and everything is upside down and it's really tough on them. Yeah, absolutely. How do you maintain

[15:01]Zibby Owens: this sense of closeness and family and tradition while your life is also on such a public state? It's like you're into mist and then you're like out there everywhere and and your husband is out there everywhere. How do you like come back? What do you like do at night to stay normal? Do you sit around and watch TV? Like what how do you go back and forth, I guess, from such a public to the private?

[15:24]Jill Biden: You know, you you have to make your family and your, you know, your private life. I mean, you have to maintain that. You have to make it a priority. And so I think when I'm at school, just my head's at school. Or when I'm doing something as second lady, my head was totally there. But then you can't, I mean, you have to be very conscious as a mom, you know, to make sure that you do all the things that your kids expect, you know, calling them or sending a card or sending a quote. Like, I sent a quote to Natalie this morning, and it said, Walt Whitman said that some people are full of sunshine to the very last inch. And I said, Natalie, that's you. That's who you are. And it is who she is. And that's who her dad was. That's who my son Beau was. And so I wanted to send that to her. And, you know, she sent me back a very sweet email. And so anyway, you know, you have to make time. You have to really think about it. You can't just let time go by or a day go by. Know, have to be vigilant at being a good mom and a grandmom, right? I mean, isn't that I mean, not that you're a grandma, but I mean, being a good mom, you have to make you have to be conscious about it. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

[19:33]Zibby Owens: It's true. And, oh my gosh, honestly, my heart broke when you wrote about losing Beau and Mhmm. Just how open, authentic, honest. I'm so sorry that you've gone through this and your whole family's lost. I just my heart just breaks for you. And the way you wrote about it in the book and how that there is nothing you can say. You're like, I don't have the words for this. All I can say is to other people that have been through it that you're not alone. And sometimes that is all you can say. Anyway, it was just absolutely beautiful and just so heartbreaking.

[20:07]Jill Biden: And anyway, I just wanted to extend my You know what, Savi? I really feel that because you love your children so much, I think you know, or you can imagine how painful it is to lose a child. And I mean, you can't even let your mind go there. You can't even let your head go there. So the thing that I found that Joe and I did was we tried to find purpose. And so after we were in the administration, we started the Biden Cancer Initiative, because every American family is going through many American families, most have someone who is experiencing cancer. And it's so tough to go through it. And I went through it with my mother, my sister had a stem cell transplant and then Beau. But I can't even tell you how many people that I connect with weekly. I mean, a lot of people who say, who have gone through the same thing. I have to tell them, you just have to find purpose to be able to go on because you have to make something of the life that you've lost. And in Beau's case, brain cancer. So I'll keep going. I'll keep going with this no matter what happens in our future. I will still be in the fight against cancer.

[21:28]Zibby Owens: It's just so awful. I'm so sorry. In fact, one of the things that really struck me in your book too was how you talked about your requirement essentially to compartmentalize and how you had to just put it aside. And I felt like that resonated so well because or so much rather because everybody has to do that to some degree or another, not necessarily through the awful things that you've been through, but even something smaller that's really on their minds and yet you're you have to do it. You said and and your point in particular was I wasn't disingenuous when I smiled at rallies or campaign stops. I just had to teach myself to forget for a little while the parts of me that were hurting. So many of us public figures or not have to learn how to lead these double lives. Work doesn't stop because your father is sick. Deadlines don't go away because your friend is dying. We never know what's behind someone's smile, what hardships they are balancing with their day to day responsibilities. So just tell me a little tell me about your ability to compartmentalize and, like, how how we all do this, how we all can just step it up when we have to, and how can people do it when they're feeling so lousy?

[22:39]Jill Biden: Well, know, I think as moms, I mean, we you have to do that. You can't let your and in my professional life, you know, I had to walk into that classroom every single day, a smile on my face, because as you walk into the classroom, that first, that instant that I walk in there, that's so important. It sets the tone for the class. And if I walked in and I was upset or grouchy, you know, that would permeate. So every day I would walk in positive and with a smile on my face, knowing that my students were going through some pretty tough times. And I teach a lot of refugees, I teach a lot of immigrants, a lot of my students are in The United States by themselves, because they've lost their entire families due to wars or circumstances in other countries. And so I had to be there for them, you know. And like I said, my classroom is my sense of community. And I owe them that as a professional, as a friend, as their teacher, as a professional. I think I owe them that.

[23:49]Zibby Owens: It goes back to your saying you have to have a purpose, like this whole sense of purpose and doing things for others and just making it all matter requires that level of stepping it up to such a degree. Oh my gosh. Writing a book, is this something that I know you've written children's books as well. Is a memoir something that you always thought you would do or has it been in the back of your mind or do you want to write a novel or tell me about writing? You know, after we were in the administration,

[24:16]Jill Biden: I met so many amazing people and did so many amazing things. And I thought, have to write about that because I have to tell these stories. But when I talked to the publisher and presented the book, they said, no, no, we don't want that. We want a book that only you can write. And so they said, Tell us about your family. And there's so many blended families now. And so that's what I decided that only I could write about, how I married Joe and he had two children, and how I became a mother to Beau and Hunter. And then later on, we had our daughter, Ashley, and how I used my own family as a roadmap to sort of navigate, you know, what I valued in my growing up to sort of guide me to being a mother, an instant mother, by the way, an instant mother to two little boys. And I grew up with four sisters. So I was so used to girls and you know fighting over makeup and who has the comb and the hairbrush and you know all the things girls do. Boys were like totally different for me. And you know I write in the book about the snake story where the kids came in and I'll never forget it. Mom, mom, come here, come here. So I go running down the steps and they're holding this net and I look in the net and it's a snake and I screamed and I ran back upstairs. But like, they were so proud of the snake that they had caught this snake and they wanted to show it to me. You know, those sorts of things that I really had to get used to as a new mother. So there were a lot of fun, fun stories. Boys, I think, I don't know, don't know if you have boys or girls or if I have two of each. Okay, then do you think boys and girls raising them is a lot different?

[26:06]Zibby Owens: I mean, depends. I feel like just all my kids are so different. Feel like they all, even within the genders, yes, there are some things that are just so, yeah.

[26:16]Jill Biden: So it's just funny and different. So they were a lot of fun. I mean, raising them, I went through some really interesting times.

[26:28]Zibby Owens: I'm sure you could have written many more books just about Yes. It something that you would want to do again? Like, would you want to write about what it's like to be on the campaign trail? Like, would you wanna write more about being a grandmother? Like, I could just see you doing so many books because your voice is so, you know, amazing. Writing, and I journal

[26:47]Jill Biden: every day. I mean, most days. And that's what I suggest to a lot, you know, people that I meet, to my students, to other friends, because we are in such a different time in this pandemic. And I try to tell my grandchildren I want them to journal because I never want them to forget what they went through during this time in good ways and in bad times. Like write reflections of how did you feel? How did this pandemic change you? How did it change your view of the world? What do you want to see in the future because of having been through this pandemic? So I hope your kids are they don't have even have to write it if they want to do it through art. You know, some of my grandchildren are very artistic, or they want to do a video and record it. But I don't think we should lose really the essence of this experience. Even though this illness is so horrible, I think we have to think of ourselves and what we went through and how it changed us as who we are or as who we were.

[27:57]Zibby Owens: I think my daughter is chronicling this through TikTok, which might now go away so I think we need some different outlets. Yes. Yeah. Do you have any advice to aspiring authors aside from Well journaling of

[28:12]Jill Biden: I say write from your heart. I mean, I tried to write. I read so many memoirs. And when I finished a lot of them, I thought, I don't really know that person. And I thought when I thought about writing my own memoir, I thought my readers are going to expect me to sort of expose my heart and get to know me for the woman I am. So I hope that came through in the book because I didn't want it to be superficial. I wanted people to get to know me. And I just wrote my children's book, Joey, about my husband. And I'd love to write another book. Because look what we're going through. I mean, there's so many things happening in the world right now, that just so many things that are challenging, yet interesting, sad, yet you find joy, you feel joy, like so much more than you ever allowed yourself to feel it before because we've seen such loss. So I would, you know, I'm writing every day. So who knows?

[29:27]Zibby Owens: Who knows? Who knows? I mean, might have a much bigger thing on your plate. Hopefully. Hopefully. So thank you so much. Thank you for coming on my show. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to wear this sweater again. No. I'm kidding. But seriously, I read a lot of memoirs too. And this is really one of my favorites because of just what you're saying because it was so open. And I could tell, like, you're just the way that you seem from the book talking to And one on that's just amazing. That's all we have is being who we are. It sounds so stupid, Well, but

[30:02]Jill Biden: I've loved getting to know you. Thanks for doing this. You too. Thank you so much. Thanks. Take care. Bye bye. Thanks

[30:10]Zibby Owens: for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.