Corie Adjmi, THE MARRIAGE BOX
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle
[0:31]features.
[0:32]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes.
[0:34]It's a B-Classist.com.
[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018.
[0:54]And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Corey Hajmi is the author of the marriage box.
[1:06]And this episode is guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of the upcoming memoir, Everyone
[1:13]But My Self and host of Ask a Librarian, the podcast.
[1:18]Corey is the author of the novel, The Marriage Box, which was named to must read new book
[1:22]on Katie Couric Media.
[1:23]Corey's short story collection, Life and Other Short Cummings, won an international book
[1:27]award, an IBPA Benjamin Franklin award, and an American fiction award, her prize winning
[1:33]essays and short stories have appeared in dozens of journals and magazines, including
[1:36]HuffPost, North American Review, Indiana Review, Medium, Mother Well and Keller.
[1:41]When she is not writing Corey does volunteer work, cooks, draws, bikes, and hikes, she
[1:45]and her husband have five children and a number of grandchildren with more on the way.
[1:49]She lives and works in New York City.
[1:51]And by the way, as a gift to cover this book or whatever, she gave me the most amazing
[1:56]purse that she had made with the cover of The Marriage Box on the purse.
[2:01]So if you go to my Instagram at Zibi Owens and look at when I went to the literacy partners
[2:06]gala or when I went to the New York Public Library lunch, I mean, it sounds like I'd do
[2:12]these things all day, which I don't.
[2:13]But anyway, I brought the purse to both of those so you can see how absolutely gorgeous
[2:16]it is.
[2:17]Corey, thank you so much for being with me on moms don't have time to read books so we
[2:22]can talk about The Marriage Box.
[2:24]I'm thrilled you're here.
[2:26]I'm thrilled to be here with me.
[2:28]I'm so glad.
[2:29]I found this book so interesting.
[2:31]So I can't wait to talk a little bit about it.
[2:33]I have lots of questions for you because as I was reading, I was marking passages and just
[2:39]there were so many things I think in this book, you know, I'm in elementary librarian.
[2:44]So I talk to the kids a lot about how books are windows or mirrors often.
[2:49]And for me, this book really was a window into a world that I'm not as familiar with.
[2:54]I live on the West Coast.
[2:55]I am not Jewish.
[2:57]And there were so many things.
[2:58]I'm not Syrian.
[2:59]I've really enjoyed having a peek into pieces of one individual life.
[3:06]And so it was just a really well done book.
[3:08]Congratulations.
[3:09]Thank you so much.
[3:10]That's great to hear.
[3:11]I'm thrilled.
[3:13]Let's start with this.
[3:14]Would you mind please telling the listeners what is The Marriage Box about?
[3:19]Sure.
[3:20]The marriage box is about Casey Cohen, a young girl who grows up in New Orleans and a pretty
[3:26]all-American kind of lifestyle in the 70s.
[3:29]She goes to a college of preparatory high school.
[3:33]She's a cheerleader and she gets herself into some trouble.
[3:37]So her parents trying to hurt their concerns and they decide they're going to go back
[3:42]to where they both were raised, which was the Syrian Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn.
[3:47]And to them, it was familiar to Casey was completely foreign.
[3:52]It seemed like overnight there are ideas about what they wanted for their daughter
[3:56]changed because Casey thought she'd go to college and then when they got to Brooklyn, her
[4:01]parents wanted her to get married.
[4:04]And so the book opens with an 18-year-old protagonist getting married.
[4:09]Even though she swears she won't do it, she does.
[4:12]Yes.
[4:13]Oh, thank you.
[4:14]I'm terrible at describing things because I either tell them not enough or not too much
[4:17]because I'm pushy and I just want to put it in someone's hands and be like, just read
[4:20]it.
[4:21]You know what I mean?
[4:22]Questions.
[4:23]Just do what I say.
[4:24]So that was perfect.
[4:25]Okay.
[4:26]That was fantastic.
[4:28]So, okay.
[4:29]Here's why I want to start.
[4:30]Did you have the idea for this book?
[4:32]Did you start with the characters?
[4:33]Did you start with the story?
[4:35]Okay.
[4:36]So I have to confess that the marriage box is based on my real life.
[4:39]I did not know that.
[4:42]Yeah.
[4:43]Wow.
[4:44]Yeah.
[4:45]It is totally fiction, like all the things that have details or fiction, but the premise
[4:49]what I just told you.
[4:50]Yes.
[4:51]It's pretty much happened to me except for I didn't get into trouble.
[4:54]We didn't have to move because I didn't anything wrong or the pretty good kid.
[4:57]Okay.
[4:58]But my parents did decide when I was 16 that they wanted to come back into this world.
[5:04]And it was pretty drastic for me, the change, but the culture clash.
[5:09]I knew nothing.
[5:10]I didn't speak Hebrew.
[5:12]I didn't know any Arabic.
[5:15]I didn't know the foods that were eaten in the community, but we didn't keep kosher.
[5:21]I knew nothing.
[5:22]Wow.
[5:23]Yeah.
[5:24]What a jarring experience at that age, too.
[5:27]Yeah.
[5:28]I think they age was a very big deal.
[5:30]Yeah.
[5:31]But that's the time.
[5:32]16 is when you're trying, you're figuring out who you are and what you want to be.
[5:36]And everything was just turned upside down pretty much.
[5:40]Wow.
[5:41]That is fascinating.
[5:43]I'm sitting here thinking, did I miss something in these materials?
[5:47]Is that out there already?
[5:50]I do really think of it as a work of fiction.
[5:54]Yes.
[5:55]The inspiration came from my experiences.
[5:57]Gosh.
[5:58]I bet there was so much to draw on.
[6:00]That makes so much sense now for me.
[6:03]All the pieces are clicking in because I just was so fascinated by this.
[6:07]And it really makes me feel better to know that you didn't get into big trouble because I really as a mother of teenagers or
[6:13]reading about Casey.
[6:14]I was like, please don't.
[6:15]Oh, no.
[6:16]What are you doing?
[6:17]Exactly.
[6:18]That was a good, a goodie, really.
[6:22]Gosh.
[6:23]And thank goodness for that.
[6:25]I'm sure your parents are very happy.
[6:27]Yeah.
[6:28]I cried for a year.
[6:30]So I'm sure you did.
[6:32]So you moved at that age.
[6:34]So when you, so has this always been a story you wanted to tell?
[6:38]Well, I didn't know that I wanted to be a writer.
[6:41]So I didn't discover a writing till I was like, mid 30s.
[6:45]Wow.
[6:46]And it's that happened.
[6:48]It happened.
[6:49]That was a teacher.
[6:50]Okay.
[6:51]Fourth and fifth grade teacher.
[6:52]And I was doing my graduate work at the industry college for teachers in Manhattan.
[6:56]And I did my thesis on storytelling.
[6:59]Okay.
[7:00]But basically to use storytelling in a classroom to learn that students should teach to whatever.
[7:07]It's a great tool in a classroom.
[7:09]And I think in doing that paper and telling stories in understanding the importance of storytelling.
[7:15]I wanted to keep telling stories when I was done.
[7:18]And so I took a class that got the writers workshop.
[7:21]And just took a fiction class and wrote a short story.
[7:25]And my teacher said, I think you have talent.
[7:27]Maybe you want to go to bread loaf writers conference, which I had never heard of.
[7:31]Right.
[7:32]Which was kind of like one step after another.
[7:35]Really tiny baby steps.
[7:37]Got one story published and another.
[7:40]And then incredible.
[7:42]Yes.
[7:43]So writing short stories with kind of, I wouldn't say easy.
[7:46]But it can easier to me than writing a novel.
[7:50]And one morning, I just worked up instead.
[7:52]I don't think I'm going to write a novel.
[7:54]And it was a totally different experience.
[7:57]I'm so interested to hear about that because I had that on my list of questions for you because your first collection was a collection of short stories.
[8:04]Yes.
[8:05]And I will say the pace of the marriage box definitely had echoes of short stories for me.
[8:12]in the way that you structured it.
[8:15]And I also really liked that it was spare in the best ways where it's not overwritten.
[8:22]Nothing's over explained.
[8:23]And that actually also adds to the tension for me.
[8:26]So what was that experience like?
[8:28]So you sat down and said, which, by the way, I love this.
[8:30]Like, well, I'm going to write a novel.
[8:31]We'll see how this turns out.
[8:33]So how was the experience?
[8:35]Well, I'll tell you that was 20 years ago.
[8:37]Okay.
[8:38]So it was easy.
[8:39]No problem.
[8:40]It's been seamless since then.
[8:41]Okay.
[8:42]Great.
[8:43]We're done here.
[8:44]So many years.
[8:45]Wow.
[8:46]Yep.
[8:47]I took a long time figuring out how I wanted to tell this story and working on my craft.
[8:53]Because like I said, I came to writing kind of late.
[8:55]I had to catch up with a lot of reading.
[8:57]I managed to get through graduate school with very few English classes.
[9:01]I had I would not very well read.
[9:03]So I had a lot of catching up to do.
[9:05]Okay.
[9:06]What out of the things?
[9:08]So when you say you weren't well read, what's one book that comes to mind that you thought?
[9:12]I had never read X and I for sure should have.
[9:15]Well, the only class I had taken in college where I even had to read.
[9:19]Sure.
[9:20]Literature was American playwrights.
[9:22]Okay.
[9:23]So really, really nothing.
[9:26]And then just on my own, trying to catch up.
[9:29]And really it was the book.
[9:30]Wally Lamb.
[9:31]She's come undone.
[9:33]It's very accessible.
[9:35]And it felt very raw and natural and easy.
[9:38]It wasn't like, you know, one of the classics that, you know, just felt like something
[9:44]untouchable.
[9:45]Yeah.
[9:46]And this isn't that book that was a real inspiration for me.
[9:49]Just to fit down and tell the story.
[9:51]Just tell a story.
[9:52]Just tell a story.
[9:53]I love that.
[9:54]I read she's come undone when I was a teenager.
[9:56]And then read it again.
[9:58]And I was just thinking it's one.
[9:59]Finally.
[10:00]to go back to. That is such an incredible story and incredible book. Oh great. Yeah and that makes
[10:07]me feel better too because my classic knowledge is like horrible. I really need to work on that too.
[10:12]I'll make a little list. Maybe you can make it for me in your spare time. We're not releasing a book,
[10:17]right? We're gonna be perfect. Okay wow, 20 years so you were working on your craft. Were you
[10:24]working on this on the side? Or was it like it was just percolating and preparing? Well what was
[10:32]happening as I was also writing many of the short stories that are in like another short coming.
[10:37]Okay first book. Yes. And those were easier for me to manage just because I always were
[10:43]even five children too. So I was home with kids. And so you're saying that it's busy to raise five
[10:48]children. Yes. Oh okay of course. I'm kidding. That's insane. I have two when I get sweaty just thinking
[10:55]about that. Continue. Yeah so it was hard to find the time. And this is when I found the time
[11:00]I wouldn't have enough time to read a 300-page document. So a 10-page short story or 12-page short
[11:07]story with manageable. So I was writing short stories at the same time that I was working on the
[11:14]novel but what happened with the novel was I'd have to put it away. Sometimes for really long
[11:18]periods of time like six months. And then when I went to pick it up it would just take me like
[11:24]you know two or three hours even to get back into what was I trying to say? Where are some
[11:30]the thread here or what's the vibe? You know just get back into the emotion of it. And then time
[11:36]would run out. That makes complete sense. Someone recently was telling me that fiction is a mood.
[11:45]Writing fiction is a mood. And so accessing that mood. And especially like you're saying when
[11:50]you're in the throes those busy years of life where coming down off of that takes so much effort as
[11:56]it is. So to actually sit down you're right yeah. Oh I just found the thread and ding. We're done.
[12:02]Exactly. Exactly. Oh my gosh. I think about 10 years ago or 8 years ago when I was able to take it
[12:08]a little more seriously. Okay. And that's not seriously the thought the right word. But I was able to
[12:13]devote some time to it and really work with on it. Yes. Well and I love that you make that
[12:18]distinction because I think that we can be hard on ourselves at times and think that we're not
[12:22]serious about something because we're not able to create time for it or sufficient time for it.
[12:26]And that is sometimes the rhythm of life and the way that it goes. So it sounds like that
[12:32]was sort of waiting for you until you had space for it. Exactly. That makes sense. Well your language
[12:41]is so impressive. There were parts of the marriage box lines that I marked and wrote out
[12:48]just even as he closes his eyes tiny doors shutting. I mean some of your lines were so powerful
[12:55]and one of the characters at one point says you young people you never know when to call it quits.
[13:01]And things that really stood out to me. Are you a when you write does it take you a long time to
[13:10]craft sentences do those come out really naturally like how how does your process look
[13:16]because it feels so crafted? Well thank you of course. So how did it come out? I think dialogue
[13:23]comes out easier for me than other parts of the story. Okay. But in general I might
[13:31]if it's not dialogue I think maybe like the tiny door is shutting was just something that I saw in my
[13:37]head. And I agree with you I like sparse writing too. So I try to write how I like to read
[13:46]or what I like to read. Yes. Well I think you really achieve it and that makes sense because you're
[13:52]right that image tiny door shutting I could see it. And I really like to the layers of your writing
[13:59]I feel like the prose is tighter but the meaning is as deep which is really hard to achieve. So I
[14:06]think you've just done a brilliant job with it. I really I really enjoyed this book. I'm excited
[14:12]for it to be out in the world. Now okay so you've written one of each short story in life and
[14:19]other shortcomings and now the marriage box. Do you have one that you prefer? Oh I have to say that
[14:26]marriage box is my baby. Like it really feels like a big thing in my life that I struggled with
[14:35]and loved and kept close to me for a really long time. I reached for a coffee cup that I hadn't seen
[14:44]in a while the other day and it says go confidently in the direction of your dreams and I use that
[14:52]coffee mug for years every morning as I would write the marriage box and it was my reminder and
[15:00]that mug really means something to me and when I pull it out the other day it's that so beautifully
[15:08]that like here I am it's 20 years later and it's happening and I really can't wait for it to happen.
[15:15]Oh I'm so thrilled for you. What a beautiful feeling. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That is
[15:21]there are those full circle moments right where you think this is finally the thing and it sounds
[15:28]like this one was close to you and also hard one and there's there's something about the things
[15:34]that we really have to strive for that makes them sweet. Yep I'm so sure for sure. A critter
[15:41]crit so many times. Gosh what's your I mean taking your lessons from that like if we're talking
[15:49]for other writers what are your thoughts on perseverance? Well I would say for me it paid off because
[15:55]I really wanted this and I think that's the goal or the challenge is to be curious about yourself
[16:00]and what do you really want. If you really want it maybe you'll keep working toward that hopefully
[16:08]and I think for other people if it's not that important they might have stopped. I also was
[16:13]always getting enough positive feedback in the world whether it was by sharing parts with a
[16:19]writing coach or winning a contest or publishing a piece of that or something that let me go in
[16:26]that I knew I had something I believe I had something and I just wasn't done with it and I just
[16:32]couldn't stop but I did ask myself that question over and over again is it time to stop and I'm not
[16:38]paying attention and my going down the wrong path is not the right journey for me and I struggled
[16:44]with that but then really tried to like I said pay attention and it just kept guiding me to keep
[16:51]going. I really love hearing that and I like how you're framing that with it's the focus isn't on
[16:59]the skill quote unquote of perseverance the focus is on what do I want what matters to me what's
[17:07]right for me and then if you're staying in line with that then it's worth it to persevere.
[17:14]Yes what a gift oh I'm so happy for you thank you that's just so thrilling to come to the other
[17:21]side of a long journey like that so let's talk a couple other things I wanted to talk about with
[17:28]this particular book like I said minus the whole teenagers lives can really go off the rails
[17:35]situation and which is very true and I really like I really liked the way that Casey's parents
[17:44]the way their relationship was it really felt very true in a lot of ways and in hard ways because
[17:49]teenagers can be tricky and so did you draw on that from your parenting experience from your
[17:56]childhood experience or neither was that just how you saw Casey and her parents?
[18:01]Definitely part of it the main the gist of it was the angst that was happening between me and my
[18:10]parents during that time during that first year okay so like I said I wasn't a bad kid but I was sad
[18:18]and I was angry so it was being difficult for sure so I drew on that emotion I don't I don't
[18:24]remember the rest of the question I don't either because I'm just enthralled by what you're saying
[18:28]like everything that you're saying I'm just like wow that's so true well the way you were saying
[18:34]make so much sense to me that that toughness so you answered it I was asking like where you got
[18:39]that vibe or that feeling for Casey and her parents and that makes sense you were drawing on
[18:45]kind of what is natural for teenagers and then you're heightening it by this huge life shift
[18:51]and especially for Casey since things were already fraught before they went so and it was
[18:57]funny because as I was reading it I thought wow this does feel like in some ways it is easy to
[19:02]write a teenager going down the wrong path because basically you just know what's right and then
[19:06]you choose the opposite for them right like hey you shouldn't hang out with that person so hang
[19:12]out with that person and see what happens exactly okay if I were trying to blow this up what would I
[19:22]yeah perfect oh well I think the point of my question was that the way you wrote that was very
[19:27]truthful and it felt very true to like we're talking about you know that time of life is so
[19:35]particular and has its own taste to it where you just think you know everything and your parents
[19:42]are really dumb in those years and so the idea that she's having to push against all of that and
[19:48]they're trying to do its best for her right so go ahead no it's gonna say they think they're
[19:54]doing what's best for her but part of what I like to play with in that whole
[20:00]dynamic is their expectations of her.
[20:03]And, you know, just because that's what they want for her,
[20:07]doesn't mean necessarily that that's what she should do,
[20:10]although she does.
[20:11]That's so true, good point.
[20:14]Gosh, this is really gonna,
[20:15]I'm gonna have to like take notes on this
[20:17]for my therapist, right?
[20:18]Cause this is just that constant game of the,
[20:21]the Relate the parent child relationship
[20:23]is just so fascinating anyway,
[20:25]and there's so much to mind there,
[20:26]and you're exactly right,
[20:27]because maybe they're rescuing her from one thing,
[20:30]but are they doing her to something else
[20:33]or putting her in something else?
[20:35]Yeah, that makes sense.
[20:36]Tell us about the title, the marriage box,
[20:38]for people that don't know what the marriage box is.
[20:40]Okay, so the marriage box was actually a real place.
[20:44]It was in like a beach club area that had a pool,
[20:48]and behind the pool area, there was a roped off section
[20:52]for the teenage girls to go there,
[20:54]and boys would go ask them out on dates,
[20:56]because in this community,
[20:58]this Syrian Jewish community,
[21:00]marriage is a really important value,
[21:02]and that's kind of like a big goal,
[21:04]especially for the girls.
[21:06]And so I wanted him nothing to do with the marriage box,
[21:10]because that's where the 16 and 17-year-old girls
[21:13]were hanging out, you get these dates,
[21:15]and I did not want to get married.
[21:18]So I got a job as a waitress,
[21:21]and that's not far, which is...
[21:23]You see that in the...
[21:24]Yes, I put that in.
[21:25]So I just wanted to not be a part of it,
[21:28]but yeah, so they used to call the area the marriage box.
[21:31]That's so fascinating.
[21:32]That was one of those window moments where I was like,
[21:34]okay, that's not a thing I knew.
[21:35]It's just an example.
[21:37]So we'll put that on the list of things I learned.
[21:41]What did you feel like?
[21:43]What were the main things that you brought?
[21:46]Like you said, when you came into that world,
[21:48]and you weren't necessarily,
[21:50]like you said, keeping kosher, observing these other
[21:53]customs and traditions.
[21:55]And so what was that like for you
[21:58]in terms of trying to belong there?
[22:01]Interesting.
[22:02]Really hard, because a part of me was
[22:05]trying very hard to hold on to who I was.
[22:09]A very scary time, like we talked about before,
[22:12]when you're trying to figure out who you are
[22:14]and your identity, and now to just be doing things
[22:18]very differently, it felt very scary to me
[22:20]to let go of who I had been in New Orleans.
[22:24]Yes.
[22:25]I was on one hand holding on to that,
[22:27]but on the other hand, finding myself in situations
[22:30]that were really uncomfortable and even embarrassing
[22:32]sometimes, because I didn't know the laws of keeping kosher
[22:37]or what was allowed and not allowed
[22:40]in a lot of different areas.
[22:42]So eventually I started to follow more,
[22:46]as it felt more comfortable to me,
[22:48]but in the beginning I was resistant.
[22:51]That makes sense.
[22:51]I could see how that would be.
[22:53]Did you, their music is a huge theme in this book?
[22:57]I loved it.
[22:58]Was that something that you held on to during that time,
[23:03]that transition, just to kind of keep you grounded
[23:06]and who you were becoming in what felt like your old life?
[23:10]Absolutely, I mean, I used music then,
[23:12]but also writing it in the book is so much fun.
[23:15]I bet.
[23:16]You had so many good songs in there.
[23:18]I felt like I was, it's just,
[23:20]and to follow all those is just,
[23:22]I was trying to explain to my kids the other day,
[23:24]how you had to wait for things to come on the radio.
[23:27]I remember calling the radio station
[23:28]to request the song I wanted.
[23:31]And just the, everything's so at their fingertips now.
[23:35]And so reading about those songs and remembering
[23:38]how exciting it would be for those to come on.
[23:41]I loved that part of it.
[23:42]Are you still a big music person now?
[23:44]No, not really.
[23:47]I mean, I love music.
[23:48]It's not like a real love music sign.
[23:49]Of course.
[23:50]I just do even know what's current anymore.
[23:53]I mean, there's a marriage box playlist
[23:55]that I listen to a lot.
[23:57]Perfect.
[23:58]I'm going to pull that up
[23:59]because I bet it's fantastic.
[24:01]Yeah, I'm trouble getting it.
[24:02]I'll send you the link.
[24:03]Perfect.
[24:04]Well, I mean, as I have it in Sterling
[24:06]or sometimes technology goes awry for me.
[24:08]So you never can tell.
[24:10]I love a good, a good, easy hack.
[24:12]A couple more things I wanted to hit on.
[24:14]There's something in the book about how,
[24:17]and I never want to give too much away,
[24:19]which I don't think this does.
[24:20]But that sometimes inherent,
[24:22]you put it this way inherent in choosing is loss.
[24:26]Is that something that you find true in your life?
[24:30]Was that something that was thematic for you
[24:33]that was staying there?
[24:34]I'd love to hear more about that.
[24:36]And honestly, that was something I learned
[24:38]probably too late.
[24:40]I'm going to mind it recently.
[24:42]Okay.
[24:43]I always have trouble making decisions.
[24:46]Okay.
[24:46]And then when that was framed for me that way,
[24:49]more recently, let's say four years ago.
[24:51]Yeah.
[24:53]It makes sense.
[24:54]And it was like so obvious,
[24:55]but for whatever reason it had never landed properly.
[25:00]Okay.
[25:01]And it just made sense to me and felt right.
[25:03]And then it was easier for me to like give myself a break
[25:06]when it was being hard in myself
[25:08]for having trouble.
[25:09]Yes.
[25:10]For having to decide something.
[25:12]Are you a perfectionist?
[25:14]I don't think so.
[25:15]But like all those little quizzes
[25:16]and stuff kind of tell me I am.
[25:18]I don't know.
[25:22]Maybe my kids would say I am.
[25:25]That's my favorite answer ever.
[25:27]The quizzes keep saying,
[25:28]but I'm sure they're lying.
[25:29]And I'll find one that affirms what I believe.
[25:32]Where did those quizzes work?
[25:33]Or my husband.
[25:35]Yeah.
[25:36]Oh, yeah, never, never ask a spouse.
[25:38]No, no, no, no, no.
[25:41]That trouble lies that way.
[25:43]Yeah, yeah.
[25:44]That really resonated with me
[25:46]because I do tend to be a perfectionist.
[25:48]And I am often laboring under the idea
[25:51]that if I make all the right decisions
[25:54]that I can be happy
[25:56]and that things are gonna go perfectly really.
[26:00]And so this idea that to say yes to one thing
[26:03]is to say no to someone else,
[26:05]you're right, there's a freedom there where it's okay.
[26:07]So we're choosing this and choosing it more fully
[26:11]and with the whole of yourself
[26:13]acknowledging what you're letting go
[26:14]feels like such a better way to live, right?
[26:18]Yeah, easier than either trying to hold on to everything
[26:22]at the same time.
[26:24]And or what you're trying to do,
[26:27]also sounds really difficult because
[26:30]like how could you exactly bought
[26:32]and know you're ever removed to give you the perfect life?
[26:35]I can confirm.
[26:37]It's a terrible way to live.
[26:38]I don't endorse it.
[26:40]Don't do it, anyone.
[26:41]Or my way.
[26:44]When you used to write the book to get to that sentence.
[26:47]That's incredible though.
[26:48]I love hearing that because it feels so universal
[26:53]to the way that books are created, right?
[26:56]We're working our best at them,
[26:57]but also there's an element of what's meant to be.
[27:01]Yes, what it's supposed to be, I love that.
[27:03]The other thing I noticed in this book
[27:06]was that there are unlikely people
[27:08]that speak into Casey's life especially.
[27:11]They weren't characters I expected
[27:13]that would have an impact on her.
[27:15]Was that something that you set out to do or did those?
[27:19]I don't wanna tell too much like I said,
[27:21]but is that something that you thought of
[27:23]that this person was gonna be a real catalyst for her?
[27:26]Or was it more like that developed as you wrote?
[27:29]I think it developed as I wrote.
[27:30]I definitely had a fascination with that character.
[27:34]Questions around all the questions, yes.
[27:38]Yes.
[27:39]And so it started with just a fascination.
[27:41]And I surprised myself with what was gonna happen.
[27:44]And I think that's fun.
[27:45]I think it's fun when you surprise yourself
[27:47]because then the hope and the wish
[27:48]is you surprised your reader as well.
[27:51]Yes, you did surprise me with that one
[27:53]and it was delightful.
[27:54]And I was really, I loved it.
[27:57]What is one thing that you think is a huge misconception
[28:01]about the Orthodox community that you wrote about
[28:04]in the book?
[28:05]That the Orthodox community is one thing.
[28:10]That the entire Orthodox community looks,
[28:13]acts and believes the same things.
[28:16]Okay.
[28:17]Not of looking at it like any group of people,
[28:20]which is diverse and complex and nuanced.
[28:24]And I think when you say Orthodox Jewish,
[28:28]people have a very specific visual that comes to mind.
[28:32]Yes.
[28:33]And while that is absolutely a part of the culture,
[28:37]it's more than that.
[28:38]And so that's what I was looking to explore.
[28:42]Yeah.
[28:43]And represent.
[28:45]What is one of the beautiful parts of that community
[28:48]that you see since you've been inside it and around it?
[28:52]Do you want the Orthodox community?
[28:53]Yeah, the Orthodox community.
[28:55]Oh my gosh.
[28:56]In the, I can talk about the Syrian Jewish.
[28:58]Yes, I guess I would love that.
[29:00]And they are really generous people,
[29:05]nearly generous, kind, hardworking people who really care,
[29:10]and who support not only one another,
[29:14]but important endeavors in the world.
[29:18]Like they're really warm, good people.
[29:21]And family is a huge value in the community.
[29:24]And that resonates with me.
[29:27]And so, you know, for someone like me,
[29:30]who were and or Casey, and or both of us,
[29:33]both on being as nice and community-like as nice.
[29:36]Yes, absolutely.
[29:38]As long as you can free you, stay out of the marriage box.
[29:41]Exactly.
[29:42]Yes, it is nice.
[29:43]And of course, as any community, there are pitfalls.
[29:46]Absolutely.
[29:47]You know, I talk about gossip and other things like that
[29:50]in the book and the things that are not necessarily
[29:52]the best qualities of the community,
[29:54]have they just taken it and closed.
[29:56]But overall, really lovely, lovely.
[30:00]and I'm proud to be a part of.
[30:03]Well, and you do have a lovely honesty in this book
[30:07]that you're speaking of now to, which is just, you know,
[30:10]it's people that are doing their best to love each other
[30:13]and to build toward what they believe is most important.
[30:18]So it's really cool to see that in the book too
[30:21]because even in the characters that are more flawed,
[30:24]you see that.
[30:24]So I think there's a lot of grace that you put into this book.
[30:29]So I think people are gonna love it.
[30:31]I'm so excited.
[30:32]Thank you.
[30:33]I really appreciate all you just thought that was so nice.
[30:35]Well, this was a delightful surprise for me
[30:37]because I had not heard about the book.
[30:38]So I'm so glad Ziggy gave me the opportunity
[30:41]to talk to you today.
[30:43]And I just wanna leave everyone with the fact
[30:45]that they need to, in addition to a playlist,
[30:48]I think in your spare time,
[30:49]you need to do a skincare routine
[30:51]because you have the most stunning skin
[30:54]of anyone who works.
[30:55]So that's just, we're gonna leave it with that
[30:57]because that's, I mean, the main takeaway.
[30:59]Read the book by the book, obviously.
[31:01]And also, maybe you can just instruct us all
[31:04]because I did not believe you were a grandmother.
[31:06]Oh, well, thank you, that's super nice.
[31:08]So I pleasure.
[31:10]I'll be sure to let them know
[31:11]that we need to get some video on this
[31:13]so that it can be key for all to see.
[31:17]Well, Corey, congratulations.
[31:19]Thank you for the time and for your thoughtful answers
[31:23]and for your wonderful book.
[31:24]Thank you so much.
[31:25]This was lovely.
[31:26]So nice to meet you and talk and to you.
[31:28]Thank you, great.
[31:29]You too, I'm so glad.
[31:32]Thanks for listening to this episode
[31:33]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[31:35]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[31:38]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[31:40]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[31:43]and sign up for my virtual book club
[31:45]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[31:47]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[31:49]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[31:51]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[31:53]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.