Disha Bose, DIRTY LAUNDRY
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[1:04]Disha Bose is the author of Dirty Laundry, a novel.
[1:07]She received a Master's in Creative Writing at University College Dublin, where she was
[1:11]mentored by Booker Prize winner in and right.
[1:14]She has been shortlisted for the DNA short story prize and her poetry and short stories have
[1:18]appeared in the incubator journal The Galway Review, cultured vultures and head stuff.
[1:23]Her travel pieces have appeared in the economic times of India and cold noon.
[1:28]She was born and raised in India and now lives in Ireland with her husband and daughter.
[1:32]And by the way, Dirty Laundry is the GMA book club pick.
[1:36]Welcome, Disha.
[1:37]Thank you so much for coming on momstone and time to read books to discuss.
[1:41]Dirty Laundry, FYI, the GMA book club pick.
[1:45]Congratulations.
[1:47]Oh my gosh, I started reading your book and I was like, thank God, someone is talking
[1:53]about the realities of the torture, it is like loving your children so so much and yet
[2:00]at the same time like wanting to do bad things sometimes because you're at the end of
[2:06]your rope.
[2:07]I felt like so seen.
[2:09]Okay, tell listeners about Dirty Laundry and just the whole thing, just go.
[2:17]So the book is set in a small fictional village in Cork, Ireland and it follows a group
[2:27]of young mothers like myself, I suppose.
[2:30]The three key characters are Kira, Lauren and Misha.
[2:35]So Kira is a social media influencer, she's the popular one, people follow her for advice
[2:42]on motherhood and skin care and fashion, things like that and then there's Lauren who's
[2:48]sort of the social outcast and these women tend to roll their eyes at her behind her
[2:54]back because she's a bit of an alternative parent says to put her in and she comes from
[3:00]the wrong side of the tracks, they've all been grown up together and she was bullied
[3:05]in school and that's kind of carried on into adulthood as well to them.
[3:11]And then this misty, she is an Indian immigrant, she's married to a university lecturer
[3:18]and she's in an arranged marriage so her parents have chosen this man for her and their
[3:24]marriage is a bit cold, they're distant but they're raising a child together.
[3:28]So these are the three main characters and very early on in the book, one of them is found
[3:34]dead, seemingly under mysterious circumstances, she's lying in a pool of blood at the
[3:39]bottom of the stairs and then the rest of the book tries to examine the lives of these
[3:45]women and the people around them and try and uncover who could be responsible for the
[3:50]death.
[3:51]Oh my goodness.
[3:53]So I watched you and GMA and you were saying that while you have some things in common
[3:58]with misty, your marriage is not arranged, she is not you, talk about like which parts
[4:05]of yourself you put in your characters and where this comes from at a personal level.
[4:10]I feel like I've put myself into all three of these characters, there's a bit of me in
[4:14]all of them, you know, just like here I have days where I'm taking pictures of my child
[4:20]and putting them up on Instagram and then because the day is going well and then there's
[4:25]Lauren, you know, I breastfed my child so and I carried her around in a sling because
[4:31]she just refused to be put down and she wouldn't sleep anywhere else.
[4:35]So Lauren does that, so I think I have those sides of me as well and obviously misty is
[4:41]the one who hits closest to home for me because we're both from India, Ireland is our
[4:47]home now but it's new to us and it's a huge culture shock, you know coming from a place
[4:53]like India and then now living in Ireland and I also live in a small sort of village outside
[4:59]the city, it's all very new to me and no weather is just doesn't suit us and yeah I mean I see
[5:09]that's kind of where my similarities with misty ends because I'm married to an Irish man, it's not
[5:15]an Irish marriage, happily married, yeah so and I hope he's not cheating on me so I can't guarantee
[5:26]anything anymore but let's let's dissect any signs, should we, is there anything we should be
[5:31]worried about here? I hope that thing is crossed but yeah so that's, I don't know where my
[5:37]similarities of misty ends but at the same time I've grown up knowing loads of women who've had
[5:43]to give up their careers for marriage that's been arranged for them, they've moved home,
[5:48]have had to learn a new language, you know and make their place in a new family and with a man
[5:55]that they've not known until the day they've married so it's familiar grounds for me, my parents
[6:02]are in an arranged marriage so yeah it's familiar to me but it's not my experience as
[6:08]well there's so much in here from aging and motherhood and social media and that sort of
[6:15]perfectionism of you know one of your characters Sieras, that everyone said Sieras, Siera?
[6:19]Yeah, Kira. Yeah, oh Kira, okay, Kira spelled Siera but okay, Kira who went viral with her skin
[6:26]care videos which I found hilarious and as she's projecting this one image to the world and yet life
[6:30]is a mess behind her I try out to say in my social media not to ever claim that my life is not a mess
[6:35]but you know you know you do what you can. Yeah, there's a fine view there yeah between
[6:42]unity and you know what we project on the internet and I feel like as users it's kind of our
[6:51]responsibility as well to make that distinction you know because it's so easily accessible to us
[6:57]now social media it's just on our phones and we're just crawling all the time it's a trap
[7:02]but you also have funny things about aging I was hoping to read can I read this one passage
[7:07]is that okay? It's from chapter 30. Kira was in the city on Sunday again after Jerry left for the
[7:15]office if he had really gone to work on a Sunday she hoped he at least got to blank his assistant
[7:20]she dropped Finn and Bella off at Liz's place first Kira decided she was going to bring up
[7:24]what Liz owed them in clear terms the next time she fussed about having to watch the kits
[7:28]not just her summer getaways which they funded but also the check for brand new tires
[7:32]Kira had noticed in Jerry's office a few weeks ago her mortgage which Jerry had paid off years before
[7:38]Kira's usual table at the cafe was unoccupied she slid into a chair bringing her tailored coffee with
[7:43]her she hadn't planned to meet part there today but hoped he would turn up anyway she'd seen
[7:47]him drive off in the morning and if he wanted some quiet time away from the family on the weekend
[7:51]this would be the natural choice Kira kept her head down but her eyes started to the floor
[7:55]every time someone came in it reminded her of how she'd once boasted to a friend in college
[7:59]that she never waited for men that she always made them wait they used to work when she was younger
[8:05]when the scales were tipped on her side now the years were passing her by and the scales were
[8:10]falling the other way someday soon she was going to be too old even for a man like Shawn
[8:15]one more decade and she'd be competing with girls who wore her favorite jeans ironically
[8:20]no matter how hard she tried to keep up and fill her closets she was going to eventually lose the
[8:26]she saw it happen to her mother it had never happened to any man she knew i love that so much
[8:32]oh my gosh the inevitability of ironic worn jeans it's funny inside it's one of those things where
[8:38]it's yeah it's sad that it's true i mean there is such a difference and uh you know i mean
[8:45]literally my dad wears the same jeans he's been wearing since he was like 18 they are like filled
[8:49]with holes at this point and it's like not even socially appropriate you can really get a new pair
[8:53]jeans they're like patched for the inside they're so made it almost white as i'm like oh my gosh
[8:58]what are we going to do with these but you know there's that there's a difference then you know
[9:03]when a woman becomes a mother and a man becomes a father we're all parents but all of a sudden men
[9:13]assume this new desirability because they're dad now and especially if they're involved
[9:20]fathers i mean like they're they're boasting abilities and just they're looked at in a completely
[9:27]different light and it's completely different for a woman because as soon as your mother now
[9:33]your i don't know about desirability but your status then lowers into someone who's serving
[9:40]other people instead of you holding your own your someone's mother now you know and not just
[9:46]an individual i remember years ago when i was still struggling to write a novel and then i had
[9:54]my daughter who's born now and a friend who is not dependent anymore i remember
[10:00]and seeing women saying, oh, there goes your chance
[10:04]of ever finishing a book.
[10:05]Just because I'm in a child, you know?
[10:07]So I feel like I've heard that for years.
[10:10]And it is the reality.
[10:13]That's how people tend to look at mothers.
[10:15]So you've achieved the thing that you were biologically
[10:19]meant to.
[10:20]Oh my gosh, if I had more time, I would go back
[10:22]through all the episodes of this podcast,
[10:24]which is like 1,500 or something,
[10:26]and find all the parents, all the moms who said,
[10:29]I write one of my kidnaps, or after I had kids,
[10:32]I mean, I feel like there must be at least 1,000
[10:34]authors who are moms who have figured it out,
[10:36]whether it's Wendy Walker, who is writing in her minivan,
[10:40]or, you know, everybody has different ways
[10:42]or staying up late at night, or there's this whole like hashtag
[10:45]5 a.m. writing whatever on Twitter that's a lot of parents do.
[10:49]And yeah, not only does it not prevent you from writing,
[10:53]it gives you so much more material also to mine and use.
[10:57]Absolutely.
[10:59]Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have been able to write
[11:02]this novel, if it wasn't for all of the circumstances colliding
[11:06]together, which was COVID lockdown,
[11:08]because I wrote it during the lockdowns,
[11:10]and also my daughter.
[11:12]I wasn't able to write or finish a book before she was born,
[11:17]and was only after having her and being
[11:20]under those circumstances that I was able to write the novel,
[11:23]which I now feel like I was meant to write.
[11:25]Everything else was not working for me.
[11:28]Nothing was clicking, and then this clicked.
[11:30]It was obviously something clicked in my brain.
[11:33]And it has to happen related to motherhood and having my child
[11:40]and being able to relate to an end-down new community of people.
[11:44]Yes.
[11:46]Can I read just one more thing from the first page?
[11:48]And I don't think I've ever read a first page of a book before,
[11:51]but this one is, it's hard to read this first page
[11:55]and not want to spend the rest of the day in bed with this book.
[11:59]OK.
[12:00]The house smelled of porridge detergent and soiled nappies.
[12:03]A few years ago, it smelled of patchouli,
[12:05]filtered coffee and black opium by Eve San Laurent.
[12:07]I hate him.
[12:08]I hate you and daddy and granny, and I hate him the most.
[12:11]Bella, you don't mean that.
[12:12]Reasoning with a four-year-old was a losing game.
[12:15]So Kira tried only half-heartedly.
[12:17]She had fin the baby on her hips, winging him gently.
[12:19]When he was even smaller and cried all the time,
[12:21]this was the only way she could stop him from turning purple.
[12:24]She preferred not holding him off and creating bad habits,
[12:27]but she found herself needing to hold him like a comforter
[12:29]against Bella.
[12:31]I do.
[12:31]I mean it.
[12:32]I hate him the most.
[12:33]Bella pointed at her brother's unperturbed face.
[12:35]So what do you want me to do about it?
[12:37]Kira was staring at the hillock of congealed tea bags,
[12:40]where they'd stained and discolored the marble countertop.
[12:42]It was a few days since she'd bothered using a dish
[12:44]to discard them or giving the counter a wipe.
[12:47]I'm going to cut off his hair.
[12:48]Kira turned to her daughter.
[12:50]She felt an itching desire to drag her out of the house
[12:53]and leave her in the front yard.
[12:57]Oh my god, I have to let her hold her.
[12:59]I have an itching desire.
[13:01]I mean, the mother who says that they've never felt that much
[13:05]is giving good delusion.
[13:09]I don't know.
[13:09]I feel like we've all, any one mother I've spoken to
[13:13]has said that they've had more than just so funny.
[13:18]Well, even just allowing other parents to sort of laugh
[13:23]at that, you know, so, so funny.
[13:26]By the way, I am also obsessed with the cover of this book.
[13:29]Were you so excited when you signed?
[13:31]Was it the first one you signed?
[13:32]Yeah.
[13:33]For those listening, it's a picture of sort of bubbly water.
[13:36]It's called Dirty Laundry, as I said.
[13:38]And then there's like a house underneath the splash.
[13:40]It's so perfect, dark color.
[13:42]Oh, it's just so perfect.
[13:43]I love when I see.
[13:43]Thank you.
[13:46]OK, wait, go back to struggling to find your right voice
[13:49]in novel writing and like what were some of the other attempts
[13:52]like were they the same voice?
[13:55]Like, I feel like you've set a distinct funny voice
[13:58]that you use in the book.
[13:59]Were you indulging in that?
[14:00]Were you trying other genres?
[14:03]Like, what did you do beforehand?
[14:04]Oh, completely different genres.
[14:07]I was a student of English literature and, you know,
[14:11]so the serious sort of great Indian novel
[14:14]was what I was aiming for for years.
[14:17]That's what I was reading.
[14:19]That's what I'd studied.
[14:21]That's what I suppose I was made to believe
[14:24]is what is good literature, you know,
[14:27]it immersed myself in that.
[14:28]And several attempts at say, I have about six unfinished
[14:33]literary novels in my draw there that I'm not going to pick up.
[14:39]But what I was reading in my spare time were domestic thrillers.
[14:43]And that's what I love to watch on TV as well.
[14:46]That's what grabs my attention.
[14:48]But I just didn't think that that was a book I could write.
[14:51]And I think that is partly not only because I was studying it,
[14:54]but also there aren't many Indian thriller writers
[14:59]that are internationally published at least.
[15:02]And I wasn't seeing a lot of Indian authors
[15:05]on domestic thriller book shelves.
[15:07]You don't see the money be much in that genre as well.
[15:10]So I suppose I had my blinders on for ages.
[15:15]And then during the lockdown, something changed.
[15:19]I think the ending of the book, which is also
[15:21]the beginning of 1300, it came to me
[15:24]like I'd seen it somewhere in a movie.
[15:26]So I knew I had to write it down.
[15:29]So I wrote down that scene and then I worked backwards
[15:32]and created the characters.
[15:35]And that just clicked.
[15:36]I felt like I found my voice.
[15:38]I'd found the genre that I should be writing in.
[15:41]It just all fell into place.
[15:43]That's amazing.
[15:44]And what happened after that?
[15:45]You got an agent quickly and then it sold right away.
[15:48]Yeah.
[15:48]So I wrote the book very quickly
[15:50]because I was working on a sort of deadline
[15:53]in the sense that I was also freelance writing on the site.
[15:56]Our daughter was born.
[15:57]We were in lockdown.
[15:59]I had very little time to work on this book.
[16:02]So I'd given myself two months.
[16:04]And I said, if I don't finish the book,
[16:06]and if it doesn't look decent in two months,
[16:08]I'm battling this because I don't have any time to spare
[16:12]on writing a book anymore.
[16:14]So yeah, I finished the book in eight weeks.
[16:17]I don't know how I did.
[16:18]I don't think that'd be able to do it again.
[16:21]And yeah, before I could change my mind,
[16:24]I sent the manuscript out.
[16:26]Unedited, I should have,
[16:27]because I don't even give myself time
[16:29]to work on it and edit it at all.
[16:32]And I sent it off to a couple of agents.
[16:35]Within days, I heard back from some of the top agents
[16:39]that I'd been wanting to work with for years.
[16:43]And I still couldn't believe it.
[16:44]I was still pinching myself.
[16:46]I spoke through these agents very quickly.
[16:49]And within days, my agent, Marianne gonna corner.
[16:52]She's an Irish agent.
[16:53]And she, she was on the call with England in the UK
[16:58]and in the US, so Valentine in the US
[17:00]and biking, they're both imprints of random house.
[17:03]Yeah, so I'd say within 10 days of having finished the novel.
[17:09]I had book deals and it still brings chills to me
[17:12]every time I think about it,
[17:13]because it just felt like for 10 years,
[17:16]this is something that I was trying to do.
[17:18]And when it happened in less than three months,
[17:21]which is, yeah, that's crazy.
[17:24]That is like the most meteoric success.
[17:28]Even, you know, slow and steady followed by, you know,
[17:32]shooting star, that's it.
[17:34]And then when did you find out it was gonna be a GMA book
[17:37]club back?
[17:38]A couple of months ago and I've had to keep it a secret
[17:41]from literally everybody.
[17:42]So other than the publishers and my agent,
[17:45]yeah, and my husband, because we had to make plans
[17:47]for traveling to New York.
[17:49]Nobody else knew.
[17:50]And it's been the biggest secret
[17:52]that I've had to keep hidden from everybody.
[17:54]And everyone kept asking me,
[17:56]oh, see, I'm going to New York
[17:57]and I've had to say, yeah, just for book signings,
[18:00]but I've had this big thing, like the biggest thing.
[18:03]It's so like that.
[18:04]It's very hard thing to me.
[18:06]And I've had to keep it a secret.
[18:08]It's just been a dream, like a literal dream.
[18:11]I'm back now and I feel like, oh, that didn't happen.
[18:14]That last week, it's not happening.
[18:16]I'm trying to remind her, which.
[18:19]Are you worried you can't do it again?
[18:22]Or have you already written another novel?
[18:24]Like, I feel like I would be worried.
[18:25]Like, well, what if that would be lightning all these
[18:27]struck once?
[18:28]Yeah, you know, starting off with a debut novel
[18:32]and then starting off with this,
[18:33]it's obviously, you know, set standards and expectations.
[18:37]Thankfully, I've had two years to work on the second book
[18:41]because the book was pushed forward
[18:43]because of the COVID thing.
[18:44]So I've had two years to work in the second one.
[18:47]So the second one is nearly finished now.
[18:49]And I've had an idea for the third one,
[18:52]which is a bit different from the first two.
[18:55]So I'm really excited about that.
[18:57]So yeah, I mean, I feel like some floodgates
[18:59]have opened somewhere and I've struggled for 10 years.
[19:03]And now all of a sudden, I have all of these ideas
[19:07]and it's all going great, some of us.
[19:09]I, well, that is so inspiring
[19:11]because I know there's so many people out there
[19:13]who feel like the tides will never turn.
[19:16]And if it's in this long, then that means
[19:19]that it can't change on a dime.
[19:21]But that doesn't, it doesn't work like that.
[19:24]No, it doesn't.
[19:25]I feel like you find the right idea
[19:29]and the right moment and the right fashion for an idea
[19:33]and they all come together.
[19:35]And, yeah, and it happens.
[19:37]It just happens.
[19:38]How is your daughter behaving these days?
[19:43]Much better.
[19:44]It's happened.
[19:45]She sleeps at night.
[19:47]She's been for herself a little bit.
[19:49]So no, I mean, you know, she goes to preschool now.
[19:53]So that's just made such a difference in my life.
[19:56]I have a couple of hours to myself.
[19:58]I don't have to rely on my husband.
[20:00]home to be able to work, you know, so it's made a huge difference. And she's having a
[20:05]boy. She was in New York for a week. She went to all the big brands. She checked out the playgrounds
[20:11]in New York and had pizza. So she's having a great time. Well, I'm sorry, I wish we had had this
[20:16]scheduled before. We could have hung out in New York and, uh, yeah. I've survived having four
[20:24]kids here and I've been to many a playground at this point. I'm like, I'm just not going. I'm just
[20:29]as it was like a beautiful day yesterday. And I'm like, which parent can take my kids to the park
[20:35]with one? I mean, I'm not here at that stage where you can do that because, you know, I still have to
[20:42]be there for more store for play days, which is yeah. I'm waiting for the juvenile can just
[20:48]hand her off to other people. Yeah, that's a nice day. That's very nice. And then even with my older kids,
[20:56]at least my son, like, he just, the one day he was just like, all right, I'm going to go to like
[21:01]meet someone on 86th Street. And I'm like, okay, and I'm like, okay, so I guess that's how it
[21:04]happens in life. Like, we didn't have a conversation. It was just so obvious. It was just so obvious
[21:10]one day that that was, of course, he could do that. We didn't. So I don't know. I'm like, all this
[21:15]great. Yeah, I think parents of young children need to hear this more because it just seems like
[21:21]such an unachievable dream right now what you're describing. And I still have like an eight and
[21:26]nine-year-old. And I still have moments like described in the book, you know, where I'm just like,
[21:30]seriously, like, I'm going to like take a deep breath. And I can't believe this is happening. But yeah,
[21:35]but then I have encouragement from my older kids where I see like, yeah, like, yeah, you know
[21:40]what, what potentially it walks into. So that's a good one. Yeah, but it is hard to believe
[21:45]when you're in the service. But yeah, well, anyway. And then you have moments of recognition
[21:53]and escape with great books like this where you're like, oh, you know, it gives you like the fuel
[21:58]to keep going. You know, like, even through the hardest times when like, just you can laugh at
[22:03]something that, yeah, that is going on. And I'm really glad you don't know these people in real life.
[22:09]I find a lot of people telling me that we love your book and I'm so glad I don't know anyone
[22:15]back. Well, I mean, there, there are bits and pieces of everybody. You know, like, you can find like
[22:20]you said about you and your character, like, there are bits and pieces of people in each of them
[22:25]who I can sort of recognize. Yeah, all these mom tropes. And so yeah, you know, it all works out.
[22:33]And then sometimes it works out really well, like for you. So there you go. Do you have any advice
[22:38]for aspiring authors? Two pieces of advice. One would be to just keep going like I did. I know
[22:44]it seems like a long road. And I've had many moments of just giving up 10 to 12 years. It's been
[22:52]that long for me of just kind of keep going. And my second piece of advice would be get yourself
[22:59]an agent. I feel that's a mistake a lot of aspiring writers make trying to do it yourself. And
[23:05]someone told me this about just three years ago. And that's been the best decision of me.
[23:11]Just leave all of the other stuff to someone else who has the experience and the knowledge you do
[23:17]the writing. So yeah, that is smart. Oh, the last thing I wanted to ask about is your grandfather,
[23:25]he thanked in the acknowledgements. Tell me about him. Oh, he was just the loveliest man. I feel like
[23:31]he he passed away about six years ago. And if he was alive, he'd be the proudest. He'd be at every
[23:38]workshop. He'd be handing me my pen to sign every book. He was an accountant actually by trade
[23:46]because he never had the opportunity to become a writer himself. But I think I get my writing abilities
[23:53]from him. And after he passed away and people clearing his belongings, we found all my little school
[24:02]essays, all the scribbles and notes. He'd saved everything. Yeah. And it's just lovely.
[24:09]Even when I was about four or five, I had this habit and it's grown with me where I'd make up stories
[24:16]and chatted to him about random, you know, dreams I'd had or make up things. And he always sat
[24:25]down and listened to them like there were actual stories. And I remember so vividly him telling
[24:30]everybody this one's going to be a writer. And he was the first one who, you know, ingrained that
[24:37]in me. And I think I still carry that. And I can still hear his voice in my head going, that's an amazing
[24:43]story. He was like the biggest cheerleader. Yeah, he'd be so proud. I've married an accountant. So I've
[24:52]made up for his, you know, because he was always like either you're an accountant or you're a writer
[24:57]and I'm a writer now in my agent, so push it on his dream. That was so wonderful. Well, I like
[25:05]to believe I had a grandmother who was similarly proud and encouraging. And any time she would call
[25:11]me, she'd be like, you know, you're writing anything. What are you writing? What are you doing,
[25:15]you know? And she passed away a few years ago as well. And I wish she were here to, you know,
[25:20]I had a novel coming out next year and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, it would be so nice. But
[25:26]I don't know. We do. Like he said, you carry it all with you. Like all that encouragement. Like,
[25:30]keep going. And like him, she was like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, gosh, why don't you write? She's like,
[25:35]I'm more of a letter to the editor type of writer. And she would like always sit and write her
[25:39]local like Dayton, Ohio newspaper and write letters to the editor all the time. Like by hand and
[25:45]mail them in. It's so interesting. Yeah. It's what you need as a child even, like, you know,
[25:52]you just need that little bit of an encouragement. Yeah. It's going to be just cheering you on.
[25:57]Yeah. Hey, well, thank you so much. This has been such a fun conversation. It's early in the
[26:02]morning here in New York. This is a nice way to start the day here. So thank you for this
[26:06]international podcast. And congratulations again, a dirty laundry. Very exciting.
[26:13]Thank you. Okay. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[26:20]to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time
[26:25]to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book
[26:30]club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at
[26:34]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[26:39]this fantastic intro and outro music.