Ling Ling Huang, NATURAL BEAUTY

[1:47]Zibby Owens: Hi. I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books. This thirty minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, three hundred and sixty five days a year for about thirty minutes. Am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction and memoir. Our books are already out now. You can check it out on zippybooks.com. And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle features. That's at zippymag.com. We have classes at zippyclasses.com. And I recently opened a bookstore in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in Santa Monica. I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings, but this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018, and no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing. Enjoy. Linling Wang is the author of Natural Beauty, a Novel. She is a writer and violinist and plays with several ensembles, including the Music Kitchen, Washington Heights Chamber Orchestra, Urban Playground Chamber Orchestra, Shattered Glass, and Experiential Orchestra, with whom she won a Grammy Award in 2021. Natural Beauty is her first novel. Welcome, Ling Ling. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss

[3:12]Ling Ling Huang: Natural Beauty, a Novel. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be on here. Oh, it's a pleasure to have you. Okay. Tell listeners what your book is about. Okay. Natural Beauty is about a really talented pianist who, you know, she's at a conservatory. She's probably the most skilled and imaginative player there. But then because of a family tragedy, she ends up having to give up this really promising career and she's washing dishes. She's doing whatever odd jobs she can find in New York City with a novel set. And then the stranger comes in and kind of offers her this amazing, lucrative job at a high end wellness and beauty store called Holistic. She decides to give it a try. And yeah, she just kind of drinks the Kool Aid really hard. It's a stunning place. It's full of products and pills and procedures that promise to make you your best self. So she starts to do all of the things, but things are not as they seem. And as you keep reading, there are such bizarre side effects that are happening. People are kind of gaslighting her into what she's seeing and feeling. And yeah, it just kind of snowballs from there into kind of a wild story.

[4:32]Zibby Owens: So where where did this come from? I know you have a violin background yourself. Right? Yeah. So let's just talk first about the music piece of it and what it felt like even to be writing about a musician with dashed dreams when you're like a successful musician in addition to an author. Oh, well, I mean,

[4:50]Ling Ling Huang: I know that I'm successful in a lot of ways as a violinist, you know, the dream growing up was always to be a prodigy. And so I did actually go to conservatory when I was 15. But that's actually just too late to to be a soloist. And so I've always been in this career where you're not young enough, you're not good enough. And then it's difficult because as a violinist, there aren't too many career paths. You know, you can be an orchestral musician, you can be in a quartet, or you can be a soloist. And that feels like basically it. So I could never figure out what I wanted to do, but I've spent so much time and money pursuing this thing. It's not unlike the beauty industry people who spend so much time and money trying to succeed. And so I saw a lot of similarities between these two spaces that prioritize aesthetics. And also, can just take it as far as you want to. So I wanted to write about my love of music and how at the end of the day, no matter, you know, if it doesn't give me the money or the fame or the platform that I wanted, it's still amazing to do it for me. That's a real gift in my life is that I can just play for myself anywhere. And it's also that was a big part of it. Just getting to write about music really made me fall in love with playing it again. So that's kind of the music part of the book. It's so crazy how because of the form of this

[6:18]Zibby Owens: storytelling venue because it's a book, you can't actually hear any of the music. And yet it's so important to the book. It's like anyway. Yeah. It'll be great when you can have a movie with a soundtrack. Or like maybe I don't know what the audiobook is like. Is there music throughout? Maybe they solved that problem with the audio. I

[6:36]Ling Ling Huang: have no idea, but I hope so. You should do the music. Do whatever you do and put it as the backdrop for the audiobook. Let's just end the podcast right here. I gotta call the team. Right? But,

[6:48]Zibby Owens: I mean, I love that idea. It'd be fun. It would make it also, like, just more immersive and all that. Anyway, so music. Well, that's I I also am responding to the fact that you could feel like a failure when you are such a talented musician. Do you know what Like, I'm on the outside. I don't know anything about aside from piano lessons for kids or you know, like, I'm a layperson when it comes to well, I learned a lot actually from the violin conspiracy by did you read that book, Brendan Slocum?

[7:16]Ling Ling Huang: I didn't. I was worried that it would be too triggering, and that's also why my main character is not a violinist.

[7:22]Zibby Owens: Interesting.

[7:23]Ling Ling Huang: Okay. But I think I will yeah. I think I will have to because I always end up you know, I just I wanna know what's going on with the violin in the world. So Well, anyway, I don't mean to keep harping on the violin.

[7:36]Zibby Owens: But anyway, just the idea that on the outside, you can feel successful or you can feel not successful, but everybody else could perceive you as a major success. But that's just Now we're just talking about you. But anyway, okay, back to the book. So why exactly beauty and what prompted this? Were you like getting a facial one day and you're like, This would be really cool?

[7:58]Ling Ling Huang: Well, I've always been really interested in skincare and beauty. And I remember at a certain point in college when I realized that I didn't feel comfortable stepping out of my house or like my apartment, I guess, then without eyeliner on. And that kind of just accumulated. There were things that I didn't feel comfortable. You know, if I don't have a full face and I can't go eventually was was kind of where it ended up. And then it was just it was so much maintenance and I got sick of it. So I got got really interested in natural beauty and skincare as an alternative to beauty, even though it's kind of the same industry. And then I moved to New York to freelance for violin, but I wasn't plugged into the scene, so I got a job at a beauty store and it was a natural and clean beauty store. I had, you know, I think in the first six months in New York, moved four or five times. And so some of the time I had like three to four hours of commuting to get to this Oh my gosh. Or to get to the gigs that I managed to find, which were usually in Jersey or Philly or something. But yeah, I just started thinking about my experiences there. And I drank the Kool Aid hard, kind of like my main character. But slowly things just started becoming really frustrating and dissatisfying. And, you know, I do feel like a failure with violin a lot of the time because that's just how my industry works in that regard. Like, you just have to keep pushing. And I saw the same thing in the beauty industry. There's no end to how beautiful you can become. In Korea, people are getting rid of their muscles because they don't want to seem bulky, You siphon your calf muscles out. There's just no end to the kind of procedures you can get done to improve yourself in both fields. It became really damaging to think about constantly improving myself and changing myself. Kind of like the main character, I wasn't thinking about I didn't think I had anything to lose by gaining beauty, but I wasn't really thinking about whose beauty I was trying to gain. But it certainly isn't one that's kind of in line with my culture and my family. So, you know, growing up in Houston, Texas, all I wanted to do was be blonde and tan. So in a way, don't we all? Yeah. But it's taken this long to love my my culture and my heritage and all the ways I resemble my family.

[10:36]Zibby Owens: So it's representative of that journey. That's so interesting. Oh my gosh. I know there is something to the blonde hair, blue eyed Texas trope, you know, that homecoming queen thing, I think, like, leftover from Sweet Valley High books and all those books, growing up Barbie and dynasty, all of those. Yeah. Totally. My sister-in-law,

[10:59]Ling Ling Huang: like, straightened her hair, like, every day in school and like got a nose job, all these things because people made her feel bad for being Jewish. Like it's just I know it's not just, you know, me or Asians or, you know, who feel this way.

[11:19]Zibby Owens: I didn't mean to minimize how you felt at all. I was just joking. You were connecting. I'm

[11:26]Ling Ling Huang: just I wanna make sure readers know that even if they're not Asian American or or something, this is definitely hopefully relatable as well.

[11:35]Zibby Owens: Well, it's really all about striving. Right? Striving and perfectionism and, yeah, and sort of self acceptance really because I feel like so many people struggle with like, okay, well, maybe this is as good as it's gonna get. Like, maybe it's, you know, gonna get worse or I don't know. Yeah. When I was young, I was like, when I grow up, I'm gonna have twins with blonde hair and blue eyes, and they're both gonna be named Cindy. Do have twins though. Right? I do have twins. Thank you. Yes. I actually did end up with twins. But a boy and a girl, definitely not blonde.

[12:13]Ling Ling Huang: Love Cindys either?

[12:15]Zibby Owens: Not no. I did not do the no. No. No.

[12:20]Ling Ling Huang: I love that choice, though. Oh my goodness. Which can you say which beauty place you worked for? Yes. I worked in the West Village at Cap Beauty, which is still an existing store, but it I think it's online. I think it's actually become the space where we worked is now a bookstore. Oh. Which is cool. I think it's a three lives. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. You might read the book and think I had the absolute worst experience there, but it's more of a critique of the industry itself. Actually, I loved all of my coworkers and it was was a fun time, but definitely wild. I sold a like $400 water filter a few times, which I didn't think I would do.

[13:12]Zibby Owens: This is fun. Wait. So what is the water filter supposed to do? Is it supposed to make your skin look better by filtering the water? Like what's the hook? Well, it's a Berkey water filter.

[13:24]Ling Ling Huang: I don't know if you've heard of that system. It's like a it's a specific system, but it's also in this beautiful ceramic piece. So it's meant to be like an art piece that's functional. Yeah. So it's beautiful. But I didn't think people would pay that much for a water filter. And when I sold the first one, I was the only one working in the store. And then I realized, I don't even know if we have one in the store. I think I was like but then they were really interested, so I was like running downstairs and like calling my bosses, slacking everyone like, do we have one? Where is it? Can I run across the street to the office? Is there one there? Yeah. And then I made it a goal to sell more of them.

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[17:37]Zibby Owens: It's too bad you can't, like, follow your clients around and be like, how was it? You know? I mean, obviously, I guess there's follow-up.

[17:44]Ling Ling Huang: I'm sure they're enjoying it.

[17:48]Zibby Owens: Is there beauty stuff you learned that everybody should know that, like, maybe we don't know from working in the store and researching the book and all that? Well,

[17:55]Ling Ling Huang: a lot of clean and natural beauty stuff is really unregulated. So especially a lot of the stuff that we're ingesting, you know, it's like, you know, you're going into this beautiful gold and rose colored store and everything smells nice. But, you know, and then you get the beautifully packaged thing. But it could just be some dude making it in his basement who's like has figured out the packaging. So that's definitely something to look out for. And I feel like in a lot of wellness circles, it's kind of a good thing not to have FDA approval or something. It's become kind of you know, like unnecessary or even like we don't want that in a way or they couldn't understand the vibes that are like going into this thing. It's just something to think about. And another thing is like a lot of upselling. Like if you go to the Japan mart nearby or something, you can get the exact same product. It's just that it's packaged differently. Like same manufacturer, same everything packaged differently, which ends up being like $20 to $30 more. So there's just Yeah, there's a lot that I learned, which is really that marketing is very important. Yes. Also for books.

[19:19]Zibby Owens: Also for books. So what was your process like? Like when did you know you were going to write? How did this all come together?

[19:25]Ling Ling Huang: So this started as kind of a long notes scroll of observations on these commutes. And I mean, I loved the place. It really felt magical. And it was it was the first time that I wasn't doing a music job. So it just felt really new and kind of bizarre to get along with colleagues who didn't know if I played in tune or not. So like, why would you even like me? Was kind of the headspace I was in. But it was great. I'd never really had this kind of camaraderie before with my colleagues. And yeah, I just love routine. So some of it was just like, I love this stuff. I love how beautiful everything is. But also, you know, everything that happened since I started working there was like, what, 2016, 2017. Like, women's bodies are a site of horror in America. So I was working at this gorgeous place while I felt like everything about women's rights was being threatened. And there was this conflation of the two, and then also living in these dingy windowless places and commuting and then being in this stunning place. Just, you know, the range that New York City has to offer depending on how much money you have. So all of these thoughts eventually turned into this. It was during the pandemic that I lost, like everyone in my industry and a lot of industries, I didn't have any more gigs. So I was like, okay. Maybe it's time I do something with this notes scroll, and that's when I kind of organized everything into a book. Wow. Oh my gosh. And

[21:09]Zibby Owens: then what was the process of, like, editing and then selling the book? Like, you just jumped into this industry with no experience. Right?

[21:17]Ling Ling Huang: Yeah. And now, like, here's the book. Here's the book. It's wild. I cannot believe it. I think it it comes out next month, which I'm like, how? No. I mean, it's so exciting. I mean, no, I didn't mean it. It shouldn't have. Of course, it's great. It's just like it's hard to win the jackpot of being an undiscovered author and then like submitting. So anyway, how did it work for you? Oh, I'm still in shock. So I was querying all the time. I had Googled how to do query letters, but I still didn't really know. So I did my best and I was just looking at the backs of books of authors I really love. So I think the agents that I have who are amazing, I didn't find them or I didn't hear back from them for almost eight months. And I had already quit for, I think, four to five months. I was like, I'm doing other stuff. So yeah, I'd quit. I had so many rejections and they, some of them were really kind and some of them were really unkind, but I really felt like, I don't know if this is going to happen for me. And it's become so detrimental to my health just being stuck in this one little room in New York. So I just need to get a dog and not think about it anymore. And one day I heard from these agents and they asked for 100 pages and then I sent them 100 pages and I think maybe a month or two later they asked for the whole thing. Then so that's kind of how it happened. And then we had a phone call and I just remember walking around New York that day, having landed the agent and just it was the first time that I felt like I belonged in the city after years, actually, and I didn't realize how much I had dependent on it or how much my identity had suddenly shifted to hinge on it from music. So it was interesting. And then we edited together for maybe a year and we called them cartwheels where I worked on something and then sent it and they sent me the next thing to work on. Oh, that's a pretty image. I've never heard that before. Yeah, that's lovely. That's like a carefree,

[23:29]Zibby Owens: fun way of saying like, this is going to be a total pain.

[23:33]Ling Ling Huang: Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, that's kind of how it happened. And then got the deal, which is Yeah, it's all been a whirlwind. Like this whole last year has been really wonderful. And I don't stop and think enough how grateful I would have been maybe two or three years ago to have this life that I'm having now, where I'm on your podcast. I can't wait to go to your bookstore. Oh, please come. In San Francisco, I'm like, I'm close enough. You are. You should do an event in the store. You should do an event. It would be fun. Well, I would love that. Yeah. That would be great. I mean, everything I've seen of it, it looks like the most welcoming

[24:17]Zibby Owens: community, which makes sense because it's you. Oh. So Well, maybe we could get even, like, a beauty brand or something. I mean, it's on this strip where there's, like, every other store is like, do this to your eyelashes and do that to your legs. You know what I mean? I'm like I'm like, what is everybody doing to their eyelashes? Like, I don't do anything to my eyelashes.

[24:37]Ling Ling Huang: That's amazing. I have like 20,000 coats of mascara on, I think, right now, which is interesting. It's been interesting marketing the book and getting ready for appearances and having photoshoots with the title being Natural Beauty.

[24:55]Zibby Owens: You have to make sure your makeup makeup at least looks natural. Now I use I get the best stuff from the sponsors from this podcast. Honestly, it's like all changed my life cumulatively. But this one is Cosmetics, the mascara. It's called Cosmetics. And instead of having to take it off, you just kinda like pull it off. It, like, comes right off in the shower, like, clumps. It's weird, but now it never smudges, and it lasts so long. Now I sound like an ad. They're not even a sponsor now. They were a sponsor like months ago. But anyway, I'm a total addict. And I feel like it makes me look so much younger and like, like, do do do. Now I look like ten years younger, which I don't.

[25:33]Ling Ling Huang: But it's all about the feeling. All about the feeling. Yeah. We're all paying for it. Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. I I feel like it'd be really therapeutic to to peel it off. Yeah.

[25:44]Zibby Owens: I mean, often I just like leave it. But in the movies, I would always be like, who wears mask who wakes up with mascara looking like that? Like, that's impossible, you know? But now I wake up looking like that because the mascara just kind of like stays on. Nothing matters. But, yeah, sometimes if I, like, don't have time for a shower, I should not even be saying this, but like, I'm like, well, my mascara is still on. My hair looks good enough because I've only slept like four hours. I'm just gonna go on and start another day.

[26:10]Ling Ling Huang: That's amazing. You look so well rested and put together. I would never guess that's ever your life.

[26:17]Zibby Owens: Yeah. It turns out, like, I don't show when I'm like, my face doesn't show how tired I am on my face. Who knew this would be a huge thing, but it's become huge.

[26:28]Ling Ling Huang: Anyway.

[26:29]Zibby Owens: Really lucky. Are you working on another book? I am.

[26:33]Ling Ling Huang: How is that going? Rough. I feel like my second draft is due this week, actually. So the fact that I am not sure is interesting. But it was fun. I had such imposter syndrome after the book deal that I was like immediately needed to prove that I could do it again. So I just wrote this really wacky, you know, first draft and sent it in in November, I think, after you know, like, it was, like, six months, and then I sent it in. And, yeah, now when I read the first draft, I'm like, this is a total mess.

[27:13]Zibby Owens: But First draft? That is what a first draft is supposed to be. Yes. That is what I'm learning. That's the point of a first draft or even a first novel in some cases.

[27:23]Ling Ling Huang: Yeah. I like that idea. Yeah. So, yeah, I am working on the second book, and it's it's fun. Yeah. To work on something. You just finished blank maybe? I did. Yes. Thank you for knowing that. Yes. But

[27:39]Zibby Owens: I'm about to get on a call with my own editor to have her destroy my perception that it's actually done. So I'm sure. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

[27:51]Ling Ling Huang: Yeah. We're both working on it. But I look forward to reading Blank. I love the title. Thanks. I look forward to reading your next one.

[28:01]Zibby Owens: It's it's entertaining. It's, like, really light and I don't know. I just had fun with it. I'm like, you know, that's not great. It's not gonna win the National Book Award. Let me put it that way. It's, like, very light,

[28:13]Ling Ling Huang: but it's fun. I but that's often the kind of thing I crave and need. And I feel like you can tell when when an author had a lot of fun writing and it's the joy kind of transmutes, you know? It's it's nice. Okay. Well, we'll go with that.

[28:32]Zibby Owens: Anyway. All right. Well, congratulations on natural beauty. So exciting. Thank you so much. And maybe I'll see you in the store soon. That would be fun. It sounds great. I'd love to be there. I'll let you know. Okay. Let me know. Thank you so much for having me on. My pleasure. Thanks for coming on. Alright. Have a great day. You too. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also, sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.