Nicole Cuffy, DANCES
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[1:03]Nicole Cuffy is a DC-based writer with a BA from Columbia University and an MFA from
[1:08]the New School.
[1:09]She is a lecturer at the University of Maryland and American University.
[1:13]Her work can be found in Mason's Road, the Master's Review Volume 6 curated by Roxanne
[1:17]Gay, Chautauqua and Blue Mesa Review, and her chapbook Atlas of the Body, one that
[1:22]Chautauqua Janice Prize, and was a finalist for the black river chapbook competition.
[1:26]When she is not writing, she is reading, and when she is not reading, she is probably
[1:31]dancing.
[1:32]So we are a conversation about her novel, Dances.
[1:35]Welcome, Nicole.
[1:36]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:37]I'm Mom Stewart.
[1:38]I have time to read books to discuss Dances, a novel.
[1:40]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:43]This is a really, really beautiful story about body and dance and family and so much
[1:48]else.
[1:49]And I would love for you to tell listeners about it and what inspired you to write it.
[1:54]Sure.
[1:55]Yeah.
[1:56]So it's a book about a black ballerina who gets promoted to the top tier of her ballet
[2:01]company and is kind of dealing with some sudden life events and just the consequences
[2:06]of her sudden propulsion into fame.
[2:09]And I think for me, it was really a matter of I was really hungry for a book like this
[2:14]and it didn't exist like this yet.
[2:16]There aren't that many fictional ballet books out there and there certainly are very, very
[2:21]few about black ballerinas.
[2:23]So, you know, I couldn't find a book like it.
[2:26]I really wanted that book to exist.
[2:28]So I wrote it or I tried to.
[2:30]Okay.
[2:31]That is what they say to do.
[2:32]You know, go to the bookstore and if you can't find what you're looking for, just create
[2:35]it.
[2:36]There you go.
[2:37]Easy.
[2:38]But I bet it wasn't just that easy to have you always wanted to write a book about something
[2:45]like where did this all come from?
[2:47]Give me your life story.
[2:48]Take me back to the beginning and tell me, it's dark in 1988, you know.
[2:53]Well, you know, I had been writing for a while.
[2:55]I have short stories that are kind of floating around out there on this actually was not
[2:58]my first novel.
[2:59]It's just the first one that is being published.
[3:02]And I think for me, it's just a matter of really wanting to tell stories.
[3:07]You know, I did it as a little kid and do it as an adult.
[3:09]I'm storytelling is just I think compulsive for me.
[3:13]And so, you know, for me sort of tapping into this specific story was really about wanting
[3:19]this story to be out there wanting a story to exist and also wanting to immerse myself
[3:22]into this world that I love so much.
[3:25]And do you do ballet?
[3:26]I'm sorry.
[3:27]I should know this, but I don't know it.
[3:28]Are you a ballerina as well?
[3:29]I do do ballet.
[3:30]I'm not a professional, but I love ballet and math ballet as often as I can be there.
[3:34]And I do dance as well.
[3:36]Do you do other types of dance or ballet only yourself?
[3:41]I just ballet.
[3:42]Yes.
[3:43]You know, there was a lot of dialogue, particularly between the mom in the book.
[3:48]I always forget everybody's names, CC and her mom and how negative an influencer mom
[3:53]sort of was on her dreams and pursuing her dreams and saying things like, well, this
[3:56]is not what we do.
[3:57]And, you know, this is a foolish aspiration and even just like from the body type, like
[4:04]this is not what black bodies are meant to do or whatever.
[4:07]And like the muscles and all that stuff was the mom intended to be just sort of like all
[4:11]the negative voices in the world.
[4:12]Do you know what I mean?
[4:13]Like all the negativity, like you have in your own head or did you have negative sort
[4:18]of influences?
[4:19]Not really.
[4:20]It's not even true.
[4:21]CC's mom could not be further from my actual mom or anyone who had a part in being a support
[4:27]system for me.
[4:28]I came from a very supportive family who would have supported me if I decided to go off
[4:32]and join the circus, but I think that for me, CC's mom is sort of, yes, the embodiment
[4:38]of sort of, I think a lot of the time, our harshest critics are sort of these internal
[4:41]voices.
[4:42]And so CC's mom sort of represents that, but externally and also just someone who just
[4:46]truly does not understand their child and their point of view in the world.
[4:51]And I think CC's mom, you know, really kind of does want what's best for her, but it's
[4:55]just kind of trying to support her in the worst possible way.
[4:59]I love the support of her older brother and you had one scene where they were walking
[5:04]to school in the beginning and you know, you got a glimpse of who he was when he wasn't
[5:08]just being the great older brother and what other things he was up to in order to support
[5:13]her and pay for her ballet habit, which, which was great.
[5:17]And then when it said, and then she didn't touch her brother in 10 years, I was like, oh,
[5:20]no, I wanted him to come back.
[5:22]Yeah.
[5:23]Yeah.
[5:24]I mean, I think she did too.
[5:27]Yeah.
[5:30]So how many times have you seen the Nutcracker is really my question here?
[5:33]Have you seen how many times have you gone to the Nutcracker?
[5:36]So the Nutcracker, much like many of the dancers we dance it is really not my favorite ballet
[5:41]in the world.
[5:42]It is undeniably a classic and you know, it definitely does bring people, especially families
[5:48]to the ballet.
[5:49]So you have to love it for that.
[5:50]So my rule is that whenever I move somewhere or if I happen to be in a new city during
[5:55]the holiday season, I have to see the local company's version of the Nutcracker.
[5:59]So I have probably seen the Nutcracker, I don't know, it's not a ton of times.
[6:05]I've probably seen it maybe like five or six times from different companies, but you know,
[6:09]my husband actually really loves, it's the one ballet he knows and he loves the Nutcracker.
[6:13]So we've gone a few times just because I know he loves it.
[6:17]Oh, that's sweet.
[6:19]So what was it like developing CC as a character, figuring out, I mean, even though you said
[6:25]you'd written one novel that was not published, that is so common.
[6:29]I feel like every novel says that you have to write like a practice one, like it's,
[6:33]you don't think it's a practice one, but like how could you possibly have it be perfect
[6:37]without trying it?
[6:38]You have to try doing it first and then do another one and sell it.
[6:41]I think I don't know.
[6:42]But tell me about the process of writing that other novel and what was that about and then
[6:46]coming to this novel, because this novel is really good.
[6:48]I mean, you figured out how to do it, you know what, the characters, you're immediately
[6:54]rooting for them and, you know, anyone with body image issues can relate to CC as well.
[7:00]And that would make it a big strain and female friendship and a new nickname for Catherine,
[7:06]which was lovely, you know, for the writing piece of everything.
[7:13]So for me, you know, for a number of years, I was one of those writers who is very much
[7:17]like, you know, I'll just sit down in front of a blank page and let the characters tell
[7:20]me what they want the story to be and I'll just go from there, which I think is a lovely
[7:24]sentiment, but it doesn't even match who I am as a person.
[7:27]I mean, you know, when I go somewhere, when I travel, you know, I research everything,
[7:32]I learn language, I plan in itinerary for the entire time.
[7:35]I'm very organized research based person.
[7:38]So this, you know, sort of go with the flow thing is just not, it wasn't working very
[7:42]well.
[7:43]And so once I figured that out and really got to know the kind of writer that I was,
[7:46]things started happening a lot more easily.
[7:48]So typically what I do is, you know, I have an idea, I begin a lot of research.
[7:53]And then once I feel like my research is at some stage of completeness, although it's
[7:59]never really quite done, I will create an outline.
[8:03]So I'll create sort of a basic outline that just kind of sketches out what I want to
[8:06]happen and when and some of the sort of major turning points in the plot will happen.
[8:12]And then after I create that basic outline, I actually go back and create a more detailed
[8:15]outline, which goes chapter by chapter and kind of pin points everything that's going
[8:19]to happen in that chapter and sort of a more thoroughly sketches out character development
[8:24]and plot propulsion, all of that stuff.
[8:27]And then really the writing process is just going back and filling in that detailed outline
[8:32]and that's typically how I do it.
[8:34]I mean, the one quirky thing that I do in my writing process is I do write all of my
[8:37]books that by hand first just because that feels better to me for some reason.
[8:43]And then I go back and transcribe and kind of do some light editing as I'm typing it
[8:46]up.
[8:47]And then I major edits will come a little bit later.
[8:49]Oh my gosh, I love it.
[8:52]What a system.
[8:53]It sounds perfect.
[8:55]Do you allow yourself to change like if a character all of a sudden starts wanting to
[9:02]go in a certain way, do you let that happen or you're like, okay, no, I'm going to stick
[9:06]to this outline or maybe it doesn't happen?
[9:08]Yeah.
[9:09]So that I mean, that's kind of at least for me, the beauty of the outline is that I set
[9:12]it up so I can set it free.
[9:14]So it's there as sort of a structure, but I am totally allowed to deviate from that outline
[9:19]as I'm going if I need to.
[9:21]I love that.
[9:22]I set it up so I can set it free.
[9:23]That's like the best advice on an outlining.
[9:25]That's great.
[9:26]Yeah.
[9:28]To the point, amazing.
[9:30]So then what happened?
[9:32]Tell me about the first novel.
[9:33]Let's go back there.
[9:34]What was that about?
[9:35]So the first novel that I completed was my grad school thesis.
[9:39]It's still there.
[9:40]It's just a need of some heavy editing.
[9:43]And there are actually two other books between that first novel and this one.
[9:47]And again, they're there.
[9:48]They just need some editing.
[9:50]I've been a very prolific writer for a while.
[9:53]I tend to write like about a book a year.
[9:56]My change now that I have a child will see what happens.
[10:00]Yeah, so it's just, you know, I kind of am just a compulsive writer like I have, I have to get it done. I have to get it out. So whether it goes anywhere or not, it's, it's there.
[10:12]Amazing. How does your daughter?
[10:15]It's my son. He's a two months old. Yeah, he wants old. Wow. Why did I say daughter. No idea. I'm sorry. Clearly losing my mind over here.
[10:24]Enough. While I was pregnant, we decided to wait to find out what gender we were having. I thought he was a daughter for a very long time. Most of my pregnancy. So that board that works.
[10:36]So cute. Oh my gosh. I'm obsessed with babies. Really. So cute. So are you sleeping at all. I got very lucky with this kid. I mean, he pretty much slept through the night from day one. Oh, my gosh.
[10:49]I know that we're very lucky and I know this could change like I know there's a four months sleep progression to look forward to. So we'll see what happens. But so far he's he's been a very, very good sleeper.
[10:58]That's great. That's an excellent news.
[11:01]So tell me the story of selling this book.
[11:05]So basically, you know, this book started out in its rough form and I added it down and started sort of pitching it or sort of sending it around and that first sort of round of submissions just didn't really go anywhere.
[11:19]And so usually when that happens, I'm like, okay, I just need to go back to the drawing board and take a look at what else I can do and then the pandemic hit.
[11:26]And it had been a while since I touched this book because I sometimes need a little bit of distance before I go back and do a major revision.
[11:33]So I've been maybe like a year or two since I touched this book and the pandemic hit. And you know, I was working from home. I rarely left my house and as an introvert that was absolutely lovely for me.
[11:46]And I was like, you know, let me return to this book now that I have all of this space. I don't have to commute anywhere. I don't be anywhere.
[11:52]Let me really focus on editing this because I really feel like this is this is a time for this book to to get out there.
[12:00]And so I, you know, spent maybe a couple months just very intensively revising this book and really strategically putting together a list of agents that I could send it to.
[12:10]And that was the time when I got interest. And I think it was just because I had that space to really sort of laser focus on it and really work on it and improve what I was trying to do with this book.
[12:20]So then you picked an agent and then what was it like sending it out. Was it a short process, love process for you freaking out like what was that period of time like.
[12:29]I kind of feel like it was a short process. All things considered it went on submission and we got the offer. We got the bite from one world pretty quickly. But at the time it felt like it took a long time.
[12:42]I was so anxious, you know, all of that anxiety and imposter syndrome started kicking in as I was, you know, there's a long structure. You just kind of don't hear anything until you hear something.
[12:55]And so yeah, we, you know, once we got that bite in one world, it just seemed like it was a really, really good fit and, you know, things really kind of happened accelerated pretty quickly from there.
[13:06]And then you heard your dog is jumping around. How cute. Oh my gosh. My dog is sleeping right here. I don't know if you can see her. She's like, Oh, she's so cute.
[13:15]Well, that's exciting. It's funny because you know, I have been on both sides of this now in the excruciating waiting game of my goals only to that with negative stuff and then finally positive stuff.
[13:28]But so much waiting and always feeling like, you know, checking my emails all the time and asking, wait, could you just fall off. Can you see what's going on?
[13:37]You know, and I'm like, okay, but there's like a whole pipeline of stuff that's already there. Like it's rare, unless there's some reason, unless an agent comes in and is like, you know, this one's going to auction within a week.
[13:50]I got to get on it, which I don't know how they know. But you know, like, unless there's something like we need your bid by like in like three days, then we have like the whole process that we follow.
[14:00]And it doesn't, it's no reflection on the book at all. You know, so yeah, I mean, I know everybody knows this, but now that I see it doesn't feel like it in the moment.
[14:10]It doesn't feel like it on the other side, especially after years of work, but right.
[14:15]Not that that's so profound, and I'm sure you know this, but collecting on. So what are you working on now?
[14:24]So right now I have a couple projects that I'm trying to work on kind of simultaneously. So I have a book that I'm editing and I have a book that I'm writing.
[14:34]So kind of doing both at the same time. Very different books. One's about a cult. One is about music. So yeah, awesome.
[14:42]It's exciting. And when are you finding time to write and do you find time to read?
[14:47]So reading kind of happens while my son is napping.
[14:52]And I find that audiobooks are excellent for this because it's just first I can be doing something else while reading at the same time, which is great.
[15:01]And writing. I mean, one of the first it seemed like I was never going to be able to write again. I was like, I knew this was coming. I knew it was going to get hard once the baby was here, but I wasn't prepared for what it was going to feel like to just not have the time to write at all, especially as one who's breastfeeding.
[15:16]I mean, it's just like every few hours I am doing something.
[15:20]And so eventually I started to think to myself, I'm like, you know, once he sort of established more of a schedule, he goes down pretty consistently between eight and 10 at night.
[15:31]And I'm a night owl. So I was like, why am I going to bed when he goes to bed? I'll stay up and write for a few hours, maybe to like one or two and then I'll go to sleep.
[15:40]And because he's such a good sleeper, he won't wake me up again until like four in the morning or so, and then he'll be out until like a reasonable hour to wake up.
[15:48]So I'll still get enough sleep, but I'll also have this hours long chunk of time to sit and write.
[15:54]And so that's what I've been doing as I've just been burning the midnight oil once he goes to bed. I, you know, my husband goes to bed with him usually and I just kind of hang out in the living room with the dog and.
[16:06]get a cup of tea and just write for a few hours before I go to bed.
[16:11]I know when I, when I am not so tired that I'm passing out early and I have this rare, I would say maybe once every two weeks I have like a big later nights spurt of energy for God knows what reason or there's just too much stuff that I have to finish before I go to bed and then I, you know, then I'm in it, you know, and everybody's is leaving and like the kids are asleep and everybody's like, you know, making their sleeping noises.
[16:35]And I can just say, so nice and so nice.
[16:41]And I have trouble putting myself to bed because you know, like if nobody's like, you know, more come to bed.
[16:47]And I'm like, well, I can just stay up forever.
[16:49]It does feel like that and then you have the consequences the next day of trying to stay up forever.
[16:53]It's like you're not 18 anywhere.
[16:55]Don't do that.
[16:56]I'm going through that right now.
[16:57]I did have one of those late nights first last night, which is why I, you know, can barely four seconds today, but it's okay.
[17:04]It happens.
[17:05]So what types of things do you like to read?
[17:08]Oh, I have such an eclectic taste in books.
[17:11]Like I love any kind of literary fiction.
[17:14]I'm into it.
[17:15]I love reading, especially like historical fiction.
[17:17]I think the research component of that is it really speaks to the my nerd side.
[17:22]I love that.
[17:23]I love YA.
[17:24]I think YA in the past like 15 years has done something so cool.
[17:28]It kind of went from a genre that was kind of only for a certain age group to a genre that is more diverse and talking about these really interesting complex topics and dealing with such interests and such matters.
[17:40]So I do love YA as well.
[17:42]I grew up reading sci-fi and fantasy and for.
[17:45]So I still love those genres.
[17:47]Love the cozy mystery.
[17:49]And I love really, really good, like, literary nonfiction.
[17:52]So yeah, kind of run the gambit of possible genres.
[17:57]It's good.
[17:58]What is your relationship to your own body like post ballet.
[18:02]Yes.
[18:03]Or, you know, and how his writing the book shifted it.
[18:07]If at all and how his mother had shifted it.
[18:10]If at all.
[18:11]Yeah.
[18:12]So, you know, writing the book, especially the pieces about CC sort of relating to her body.
[18:18]I wanted to be really careful to make this more complicated than she's a ballerina.
[18:23]So she has anorexia.
[18:25]Just because I think that's the story that we tell most often about dancers.
[18:30]But it's not the only story that's out there about this.
[18:33]Not the only experience for dancers is to have a disordered relationship with food.
[18:38]But I did want to sort of talk about the complexities of being in a career that makes such crazy demand of the body.
[18:48]And the result being that you have this hyper focus and this hyper consciousness of your body in a way that I think can't be healthy all the time.
[18:56]So that was what I was really trying to explore in the book.
[18:59]But at the same time, I do think that I brought some of my own relationship with my body into the book.
[19:05]So I do struggle with a needing disorder.
[19:07]And it was part of why I didn't want to put it on the page just because I wanted this to not be about me and dance.
[19:13]I wanted her to be her own character and to not be confused with the author, which I think sometimes happens in fiction.
[19:19]But yeah, I mean, you know, and it's not dance as fault.
[19:23]I think dance is sort of something that happened because of my own hyper focus on my own body and set up causing my hyper focus on my own body.
[19:32]But yeah, I struggled with a needing disorder that I only sort of like started calling a needing disorder when I was like in grad school before that I was like, oh, it's fine to only eat this many calories a day.
[19:45]That's just a diet.
[19:46]Like that's healthy.
[19:47]That's fine.
[19:48]So once I got out of denial, I actually started talking about it and getting more comfortable with the idea that no, this is like not healthy.
[19:55]And you know, I think a lot of people sort of within the black.
[20:00]MIDI grow up with this idea that black women don't get eating disorders,
[20:04]walk them and don't get anorexia.
[20:05]I grew up with this idea.
[20:06]So it was part of my struggle to accept that that was what was happening with me
[20:10]is that, well, but that doesn't happen to me.
[20:12]That doesn't happen to this community.
[20:14]We don't get that.
[20:15]So I think sort of coming in terms with that.
[20:17]And then motherhood has kind of been a doozy because, you know,
[20:22]just anorexia is so much about wanting to be in control of your body all the time
[20:26]and wanting your body to be predictable.
[20:28]Wanting it to do what you want it to do and look how you want it to look.
[20:31]And pregnancy alone throws all of that out the window.
[20:34]You don't know what's going to happen to your body.
[20:36]And it's entirely out of your control for the most part.
[20:39]I mean, you know, you can't, or you could, you could continue to have a disordered relationship
[20:45]with food, but you really shouldn't because it would be bad for your baby.
[20:49]And, you know, we so wanted my son, you know, he's so, he's so precious and he's so wanted.
[20:56]I wasn't going to do anything to put him at risk or to harm him in any way.
[21:01]So I had to get myself in gear and fix my relationship with food at least for the duration
[21:06]of my pregnancy.
[21:08]And now that I'm kind of still sort of at the tail end of the fourth trimester
[21:11]and just kind of watching my body readjust to not being pregnant anymore.
[21:16]I'm not going to lie.
[21:17]It has been a little bit difficult to adjust to this, you know, my body being different
[21:23]and in a way that it's never been before.
[21:25]But in another way, it's also been kind of helpful because it's kind of forced me to accept
[21:30]my body's fluctuations.
[21:32]It's forced me to seed some control a little bit.
[21:36]And also it's forced me to trust my body and to recognize that it really does do what's best.
[21:42]It does what it needs to do.
[21:43]It gave birth to this beautiful baby boy and it is beating him and nourishing him.
[21:48]I mean, he went from being a little string bean when he was born to this little chunky
[21:52]two-month-old.
[21:53]It's crazy to me how chunky they get off of just milk.
[21:57]It's so cute.
[21:58]So, you know, that's my body that's doing that.
[22:00]So in a way, motherhood has made my relationship with my body more difficult.
[22:05]But in another way, it's also kind of forced me to grow some love for my body in a way
[22:11]that hasn't existed previously.
[22:13]Well, I think it's really amazing to speak so openly about it and to talk about your
[22:17]reading disorder and help all the people out there who might not have acknowledged that
[22:23]they have one or they do have one but maybe don't have the right community or don't hear
[22:28]about it enough or, you know, I feel like not like there's ever a right time in place.
[22:33]But I feel like people are so hard on themselves like what you were saying with like,
[22:37]well, you know, people in the black community should not have news or people are, you
[22:42]know, people in their 30s, people in their 40s, everybody has a thing, right?
[22:46]I should not have this.
[22:47]I should not have that.
[22:48]And in truth, you know, the demons that we have don't discriminate time, please, it
[22:54]doesn't matter.
[22:55]All the extra things like these are just quirks that happen to so many of us in different
[23:00]ways, right?
[23:01]They just come out a little bit different.
[23:03]So I think your being so open is hugely helpful.
[23:07]I love when you're like, and then I realized I had to just fix my relationship with food.
[23:11]I think, well, I mean, there are many times that I was like, I need to fix my relationship
[23:16]with food that I have not been able to do so.
[23:18]Right.
[23:19]How did you do that?
[23:20]Like, was it literally like a self talk?
[23:22]Did you get help?
[23:23]Did you do workbooks therapy?
[23:25]Like, how did you do that?
[23:27]Even just for the pregnancy?
[23:28]Definitely therapy.
[23:29]I mean, I've always been a big one of therapy and I continue to be in therapy to try to help
[23:37]me.
[23:38]I guess fix isn't the best word to use because I don't think this is something that I'm
[23:41]secure.
[23:42]I think it's something I'm going to learn how to live with in a healthier way.
[23:47]But I think honestly part of what made it so that I could eat healthily during my pregnancy
[23:53]was the fact that pregnancy was nine months long.
[23:56]So I could commit to eating in a way that made me uncomfortable for nine months.
[24:01]And then it turned into this relief because I could eat fast food and not like beat myself
[24:06]up about it.
[24:07]I could just say, I'm pregnant.
[24:08]I can have this because I'm craving it.
[24:11]So it almost gave me permission to eat in a way that would have felt forbidden in what
[24:15]I felt extremely uncomfortable before pregnancy.
[24:17]Interesting.
[24:18]Oh my gosh.
[24:19]Well, I have to tell you, I don't know if this helps in any way, but what you were saying
[24:24]about it, like just seeing what happens to your body during pregnancy for if you decide to
[24:29]have more hits, like you realize like, oh, okay, this is what like my body, who knew?
[24:34]But like this is what my body does.
[24:37]And now it's going to do it again, maybe a little bit different this time.
[24:40]And then now that I'm in like, you know, post, you know, I mean, you know, I don't even
[24:45]know where I am, but whatever, you know, this other end where my body is shifting again
[24:50]and you're just like, oh, this is what my body does when I age.
[24:53]And that's what her body does.
[24:55]And that's what happens to like her face and that's happens to her hair.
[24:59]And like, you know, we all just have to like sit back, we're so cerebral and so, you
[25:03]know, so many ways like everything is analyzed and yet these things like, you know, we all
[25:10]just have beating hearts and things happen to me.
[25:13]So anyway, I don't know if that was any consolation, but yes, I don't know.
[25:21]But, you know, I would encourage you if you haven't already and I know you do a lot of
[25:26]fiction and short stories and all that, but, you know, writing essays about this or
[25:30]reaching out or, you know, just sharing your thoughts on it, you know, what you have
[25:34]amazing Zimmy Meg would love to run something if you wanted to write about it or anything
[25:39]it would love that.
[25:40]Because I really think it's so important and it's wonderful to hear you talk about it
[25:47]openly.
[25:48]It really is wonderful.
[25:49]Yeah.
[25:50]Yeah.
[25:51]I've just started practicing talking about this openly because for so long it was something
[25:54]that I just kind of did privately and, you know, kind of really good at making sure that
[25:58]people didn't notice that I wasn't eating.
[26:00]So part of, you know, working on my relationship with my body and food is not hiding
[26:06]anymore.
[26:07]Yeah.
[26:08]Well, I feel that secrets themselves are the most destructive thing and whether you're
[26:16]hiding your eating or you're hiding something about yourself or, you know, you can't,
[26:21]you can't completely connect because there's always something in the way and it can
[26:27]weigh on you.
[26:28]So I don't know, even the fact that you're being open, I'm sure will help.
[26:32]I did an interview you might want to go back and listen, I could put it in the show notes
[26:36]or something with with Nora McInerney who was talking about, you know, her own struggles
[26:40]of anorexia and I'm asking her, well, like, how, you know, how do you get through it
[26:45]now?
[26:46]And she's like, I'm not sure I am getting through it, you know, like, yeah, you know, so I
[26:50]don't know.
[26:51]I just, we need more people speaking up and doing what you're doing because it's hard.
[26:57]It's it's hard.
[26:58]It is.
[26:59]It is.
[27:00]So good for you.
[27:01]I mean, that sounded so condescending good for you, but I really mean it.
[27:05]It's brave.
[27:06]It is brave and hopefully helping you as well as helping others.
[27:11]I hope so.
[27:12]If I hadn't stayed up so late, I would have said that better.
[27:16]Well, I wish you all the best with dances and I'm excited to, you know, follow along
[27:24]in your successes and long, you know, awaited accolades and, you know, just know that there's
[27:32]a lot of stress.
[27:33]And I know you know all this too.
[27:35]I don't know why I'm giving you advice.
[27:36]This is ridiculous.
[27:37]I'm sorry.
[27:38]Do you feel like this like protection, like, I don't know, I feel like I want to like protect
[27:43]you or help you.
[27:44]You don't need my advice, you're incredibly strong, amazing woman.
[27:49]So anyway, if you want it, I'm here.
[27:52]All right.
[27:54]Okay.
[27:55]Thanks so much.
[27:56]Thank you.
[27:57]Nice talking to you.
[27:58]See you.
[27:59]Bye bye.
[28:00]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[28:04]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibioens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[28:08]Books.
[28:09]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibioens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[28:14]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:16]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[28:20]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.