Logan Steiner, AFTER ANNE: A Novel of Lucy Maud Montgomery's Life
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle
[0:31]features.
[0:32]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes.
[0:34]It's a B-Classist.com.
[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018.
[0:54]And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Logan Steiner is the author of After Anne, a novel of Lucy Mod Montgomery's Life.
[1:09]This was guest hosted by Julie Chavez.
[1:11]Logan is a lawyer by day and a writer by Baby Bedtime.
[1:15]Her writing explores motherhood in the creative life.
[1:17]Two things she once thought could never happily coexist.
[1:21]Logan also writes a sub-stack newsletter called The Motherhood Question.
[1:24]After graduating from Pomona College and Harvard Law School, Logan clerked for three
[1:28]federal judges, spent six years in big law, and served for three years as an assistant
[1:33]United States attorney.
[1:34]She now specializes in brief writing at a boutique law firm.
[1:38]Logan lives in Denver with her husband, daughter, and the cranky old man of the house
[1:42]a Russian blue cat named Taggart.
[1:44]Her debut novel After Anne is published by William Murrow.
[1:47]Hi, Logan.
[1:48]Thanks so much for coming on moms.
[1:50]Don't have time to read books to talk about After Anne.
[1:54]I'm so happy you're here today.
[1:56]Thank you.
[1:57]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:58]I love this podcast and it's such an honor.
[2:01]Zibi has built something so great and it's so fantastic for me to be a part of it.
[2:06]And I felt so happy that I got to talk to you today about your book.
[2:09]So welcome and I'm glad you're here.
[2:11]Thank you.
[2:12]Yeah.
[2:13]Thank you so much.
[2:14]Okay.
[2:15]We're going to start with a confession.
[2:17]I have never read Anne of Green Gables.
[2:21]I want to start with that confession because I feel like everyone should know that even
[2:27]if you have not read Anne of Green Gables, you will love this book because it was so well
[2:32]done.
[2:33]And I really enjoyed it.
[2:34]It was now I want to go back and read Anne of Green Gables.
[2:38]I had visions of doing it before, but that was a fool's errand I love to over plan myself.
[2:43]But this book was so fascinating.
[2:46]I want to hear about how you decided to write it.
[2:50]So will you just give us kind of the elevator pitch first of what this book is about?
[2:55]Sure.
[2:56]Absolutely.
[2:57]And let me start by saying I'm so happy to hear you say that you connected with the
[3:01]book, not having read Anne of Green Gables.
[3:04]That is Anne that it's drawn you to want to read more of Lucy Montgomery's writing.
[3:10]That is, you know, the best thing that someone could say I intend this book to be, you
[3:17]know, to resonate with the, you know, Ellen Montgomery fan and those who are have not discovered
[3:25]her yet.
[3:26]And I think it's a story of the life of a creator that so many of us can relate to who
[3:33]want to create.
[3:34]I think there's a creative drive in everyone.
[3:37]And she was just such a such a name, such a complex fascinating woman.
[3:43]So my deepest hope is that, you know, this book resonates beyond just, you know, the
[3:49]fans of the Anne of Green Gables and that it draws more people to Ellen Montgomery's work.
[3:54]So elevator pitch, this book tells the life story of Ellen Montgomery who wrote Anne of
[4:01]Green Gables and 20 other books as well as many, many short stories and poems.
[4:06]She was very prolific in her time, a Canadian author grew up in rural Prince Edward Island
[4:15]and has this fascinating life story that has, you know, so many interesting elements and
[4:22]some ways, you know, so much sadness, so much that she struggled with, so much that she
[4:27]overcame so much that she couldn't and in some ways is such a counterpoint in contrast
[4:33]with her fiction and there are many ways that she resembles her main characters as well
[4:39]and just has this deep vibrant imagination, such a complex inner emotional life, all things
[4:46]that drew me to want to tell this story and to do it in novel form.
[4:50]So there is, you know, a beautiful biography of Ellen Montgomery, Lucy Montgomery, the gift
[4:56]of wings and this is a very different project that, you know, uses the benefit of dialogue
[5:05]and, you know, writing them linearly to tell kind of the inner emotional life of this woman
[5:12]and so it is not set as a, you know, start to finish life story.
[5:17]It really tries to pull out the deep emotional pieces and what really matters at the end of a life.
[5:25]Hmm, you did a beautiful job with it. I loved the way that you took that one birthday weekend
[5:33]and kept revisiting that. That was really compelling for me because I wanted to both go away
[5:38]and go back to it, so it was very natural and that device worked really well and it's funny
[5:45]you're hitting on all the things I was thinking about it. I was reading, I'm looking at my list
[5:48]questions and something that you mentioned is that it really is about her as a creator and not
[5:56]necessarily the creation. So, you know, I think that's a distinction and so much of it resonated
[6:03]with me as a woman and pulled in many different directions and it's kind of that the more things
[6:09]change the more they stay the same sort of feeling when you read it. You think, oh my goodness, I
[6:14]identified with this. She was, you know, we're talking 100 years ago but it so much of it feels
[6:19]resonant for right now. Yes, absolutely. That was a huge draw for me too. I am somebody who has
[6:27]wanted to write since I was 10 years old and also been always terrified of putting my writing out
[6:33]there in the world and to me, you know, some of the best medicine, the thing that I go to
[6:39]when I'm feeling really alone and that is the story of other creators and people, you know,
[6:45]women writers in particular who have gone through their own sets of struggles and always,
[6:50]you know, in the life of everyone but the life of women in particular, I feel like there are all
[6:55]these things that bubble at the surface, the, you know, the spouses, children, you know,
[7:03]maintaining the household, the day jobs, so many things that are competing and competing for our
[7:12]time and there are also for so many of us we have some deeper creative pull and so I knew that in
[7:22]my first book I really wanted to explore that and explore the life of another creator that
[7:29]just could help me feel less alone in all of the struggles and the, the back and forth that I have
[7:35]in finding room in my life for, for myself and for things that I want to create. Absolutely.
[7:41]Have you ever read Gift from the Sea by Ann Horne Lindbernt? I'll put it on your list because it's
[7:48]a very similar, so many similar themes and she was also a creator and her time who struggled to find
[7:56]it and also a woman with some deep sadness in her life and incredible traumatic things that happened
[8:04]but somehow really had this sort of hopeful posturing toward the rest of her world. So yeah,
[8:10]it's, it's a really good one in your spare time. You're not doing anything. You're just like,
[8:14]you know, promoting a book and, and being a lawyer in your spare time, right? That's right.
[8:20]That's right. The balancing act for sure but that's going on my list. Okay, perfect and it's not
[8:26]too long and the chapters are nice and short too. So I, it's one I've given to many friends. I've
[8:31]probably purchased 10 copies of it too for myself, I'm sure. But don't tell my husband because I
[8:36]lied to him about how many books I buy. It'll be our secret. That's how we make friends.
[8:44]Right. Well, so you were talking about her creative pull. When did you know you wanted to write a book?
[8:50]I have wanted to write since I was really young and Anne of Green Gables was a huge reason for
[8:57]that for me. That was a book that, you know, I read the Ann books, the Emily books, kind of the whole
[9:03]gamut of Ellen Montgomery as a young adult and I read a lot of them in my grandma's house. My
[9:09]grandma was the one that introduced me to these books. She and I were so close and so that's part
[9:16]of the special place in my heart that they will always have. And you know, Ellen Montgomery wrote
[9:23]main characters who wanted to create and were writers and were precocious and vibrant and particularly
[9:32]Anne. I think the way that she was so unfiltered and real with the world, that was something that
[9:39]even the young person I struggled to do and knew that I wanted, you know, I needed that kind of
[9:45]example and influence to be more fully myself because I'm always somebody that has
[9:51]wrestled with this, you know, people pleasing and how much of myself to put out there and how to show
[9:57]the real me. And so, Anne was such an inspiration.
[10:00]and that and also in wanting to write a book.
[10:04]So, you know, that was the early story.
[10:07]And then for many years, I did a lot of creative writing.
[10:11]I did creative writing in college
[10:14]and I decided to go this more practical route
[10:17]and have a lot career coming out of being an English major,
[10:21]have the guidance of many professors that I really,
[10:25]you know, love saying,
[10:27]this is a hard road, it's a hard and long road
[10:30]to be an English professor.
[10:32]You know, why not?
[10:34]If you have something else that you want to pursue
[10:36]that you're thinking of, why not try that first?
[10:39]And I knew I wanted a day job too.
[10:41]I knew I wanted a kind of steady, stable paper bills
[10:45]profession and, you know, that that would,
[10:48]for me, just give me that grounding
[10:50]to be able to pursue creative interests on the side.
[10:54]So, went along doing that and had some really great early
[10:58]large jobs, also really all consuming early large jobs.
[11:02]And it took me a while to get to the point of,
[11:07]I'm gonna start this book.
[11:08]And it was actually a huge wake up of losing my brother
[11:13]suddenly that was the catalyst.
[11:17]Ultimately to get me to start doing this thing
[11:19]that I talked about doing for so long.
[11:21]And that was eight years ago.
[11:24]And it has been a long journey since then,
[11:29]but also one that I wouldn't trade for anything.
[11:33]Yeah, I'm sorry that you lost him, that he's not with you.
[11:39]Yeah, it's a huge, huge pain.
[11:44]And I carry him with me in all of this.
[11:49]When I write, I think of having him with me,
[11:53]he was somebody who expressed himself so well in writing.
[11:57]And it was, you know, kind of a promise I made to myself
[12:01]and to him when I lost him that I would,
[12:03]I would write and I would carry him with me in this way.
[12:07]Thanks for sharing that.
[12:09]I love hearing about the people who aren't with us anymore,
[12:14]but are still so much a part of who we are and how we live.
[12:19]What was your brother's name?
[12:19]Absolutely. Ben.
[12:22]Well, you have done him, I think,
[12:27]a lot of justice in this book
[12:28]because you've expressed yourself really well.
[12:31]And I really was just so struck by who alumni Montgomery was
[12:39]and everything that she went through.
[12:42]I just, I felt so, she felt so familiar.
[12:46]You wrote her so well and with so much spirit,
[12:50]I really did.
[12:51]Like I said, I wanna know more about her
[12:53]and I had no idea she was so prolific.
[12:56]So because I had only thought and of green gables.
[12:59]So I think you did a beautiful thing here.
[13:03]Now you also are a mom.
[13:05]And so it sounds like that was a real turning point for you.
[13:11]You know, I'm not putting this off any longer.
[13:13]This is something I'm here to do.
[13:14]I'm going to do.
[13:17]How did those two intersect for you?
[13:21]Was it challenging to find time?
[13:23]Was that okay for you based on your rhythms?
[13:26]You know, there's a scene in the book where Anne is writing
[13:30]and then something's happening with the cat.
[13:33]And so they have to get up and go.
[13:35]And I thought, oh yeah, this is this I can see, right?
[13:38]So what do you find?
[13:40]Is that what life is like for you?
[13:41]Is it just constant interruption?
[13:43]Or are you pretty good about segmenting?
[13:45]How did you get it done?
[13:47]Oh my goodness.
[13:48]Well, I wrote the book before having my daughter.
[13:52]So I'm just a secret.
[13:55]Yes, that may be the secret.
[13:58]No, I am so writing it.
[14:00]I hope to keep that thread going.
[14:03]But I did.
[14:04]I really struggled for many years with the decision
[14:08]to have a baby.
[14:10]And my husband and I were together for 16 years
[14:13]before deciding to have, or to try to have a child.
[14:19]And my daughter Noah is now 20 months old.
[14:24]And so this book really was written before I,
[14:29]I did have a big fear that if I had children
[14:33]before writing a book that it would never happen.
[14:37]You know, I had, you know, all this self doubt
[14:42]that I was mired in and fear of putting myself out there,
[14:44]putting my writing out there.
[14:45]And so that was really, you know, for a long time,
[14:47]I saw those as competing drives or competing focuses.
[14:52]I've done a lot of reframing around that.
[14:54]It's so very much in process.
[14:55]But it was interestingly it was when I was a week,
[15:01]postpartum week after having my daughter
[15:03]that I got the call from my agent that this book had sold.
[15:07]And it was a time when I had basically give it up hope
[15:11]that it would be published.
[15:13]You know, there were so many parts to that journey.
[15:16]But I do think that there was something really meaningful
[15:19]in my life that it took kind of, you know,
[15:24]letting go of this agenda that I had to have a book published
[15:29]before having a baby for that to ultimately happen.
[15:33]And that that timing has told me a lot
[15:35]but really meaningful to me.
[15:37]And I think that, you know,
[15:40]having my daughter now, yes, there are so many more competing
[15:44]demands on my time.
[15:46]It's taught me to be, you know, even more efficient.
[15:49]I don't know, it grounds me.
[15:50]I come up at the end of the day, I see her
[15:54]and I'm more in my body.
[15:56]I'm more in like the present moment
[15:58]and that I think has helped ground the writing
[16:00]that I've done since then.
[16:02]It helps me really structure my days
[16:05]between my law work and my writing work
[16:07]and my time with Noah, my daughter.
[16:09]And it's been a help much more than I thought it would be.
[16:15]So far, not to say there aren't many challenges.
[16:17]Oh, of course, it, there is something true.
[16:21]I can't remember who told me recently.
[16:23]We were talking about something and they said,
[16:24]if you want something done, give it to a mom.
[16:26]Like it, there is something that's so just moms get it done.
[16:32]And so to kind of have a gift or, you know,
[16:36]people that are busy, people have a lot going on.
[16:38]When you do, you're in that place of just,
[16:41]okay, I'm just going to do this.
[16:43]And I don't know if you find it for you,
[16:45]but I know that, you know, writing can be a refuge
[16:50]in so many ways.
[16:52]And I think it was true for Ellen Montgomery for sure.
[16:55]And it was.
[16:56]So looking at that, at it from that perspective
[16:59]of this is something that I pour out
[17:01]but you're exactly right.
[17:02]This sort of grounding in real life
[17:03]because so much of writing is in your head
[17:06]that it can be, and especially if you're a person
[17:10]at all who's, you know, tends toward self doubt,
[17:13]like you were saying or people pleasing.
[17:15]And by the way, I feel like self doubt
[17:17]is just like baked in with the whole writerly process, right?
[17:20]It's like, hey, create something.
[17:21]And we're in special.
[17:23]Yeah, then spend a lot of time being worried about it.
[17:26]So yeah, it just, I think you're right.
[17:29]It kind of brings you back into that moment
[17:31]because toddlers don't care what you have going on.
[17:34]Yeah, no, they don't.
[17:35]Thank you.
[17:36]And it's really helpful for kind of the recovering
[17:38]perfectionist, which I definitely am.
[17:41]You know, that, you know, I think a lot
[17:43]about the kind of done is better than perfect.
[17:45]And, you know, you could give things the time
[17:49]that you have.
[17:51]And fast and enough.
[17:52]And I really struggled.
[17:54]You know, I rewrote this book so many times.
[17:56]I was very much attached to getting it right
[17:59]to the point that getting the finished book actually
[18:01]has been this, I just got it in the mail last week.
[18:04]It's been this very emotional thing for me
[18:07]because it's that I cannot go back in now.
[18:10]It's complete.
[18:11]And that has been really hard for the control
[18:14]for thinking we'd let go, I think.
[18:16]So a lot of mixed emotions there, but I do think
[18:18]that that's where having my daughter has been helpful
[18:22]in, you know, I only have so much time.
[18:25]I cannot spend the time ruminating,
[18:28]the time perfecting anymore.
[18:30]Yes, 100%.
[18:32]That is, I love that you mentioned that
[18:34]because we see a million unboxing videos
[18:37]and we always see the excitement of it.
[18:39]But you're right, there is a very strange element
[18:42]of I've been working, reworking, reworking this for years
[18:47]and now it's done.
[18:49]And if there's something you want to rework now, too bad.
[18:51]Like it's, that's tricky, but it can also be very freeing.
[18:55]I just realized as I was saying that,
[18:56]I'm really making this worse.
[18:57]But I'm not helping you.
[18:59]But it's acknowledging that.
[19:01]No, no, it's so true, it's both.
[19:04]Yes, it is both.
[19:06]Oh, holding, holding to truth at the same time
[19:09]is something I'm, you know, I'm just,
[19:12]it's really, I'm over it.
[19:13]Can we just have it be easy?
[19:15]Right, can it just be the joyful video I know exactly.
[19:20]I'm hoping that by feeling through the hard part of it,
[19:24]I'll get myself to that, that joy is hard to be able
[19:26]to really soak it in so much of this has.
[19:30]I really have been healing that joy
[19:32]and reminding myself to savor and all of that.
[19:35]But it was this interesting, it was a moment
[19:37]that was very different than I thought it would be.
[19:39]I'm so glad you shared that because it is,
[19:42]it's complicated, right?
[19:44]It's such a, it is.
[19:46]Like so many things in our life,
[19:47]something worse, bringing forces, it's a lot.
[19:52]So it is easy to forget that.
[19:54]And I think even with, like you were saying,
[19:57]it sounds like the road to selling it.
[20:00]was a little longer and more challenging than maybe you anticipated.
[20:05]Is there any of that that you want to share that you feel like would be beneficial to other people?
[20:11]You know, it's really such a story of persistence and by persistence it's not
[20:19]you know kind of dogmatic. All of this has to get done. There were I really ebbed and flowed
[20:24]with this book and and let it regulate and let it let it rest for times and picked it back up
[20:31]and at times last lost the belief that it was you know going to ever
[20:38]be out there in the world and so it was not a you know when I say persistence it's so much
[20:44]patience too and letting it kind of happen in its time each time that I would go back to the
[20:51]manuscript with you know wonderful notes from my agent who has been this books champion
[20:58]Abby Saul. I would just call her out to you. It's been such a gift to me and such a champion of
[21:02]this book for years but would go back with notes from her or notes from my editor when I was
[21:08]revising it on my own. I would get something else out of it that was like this is what I need in my
[21:14]life right now. Like there was a lesson for me each time that I went back into it and you know I told
[21:20]the story of like when I finally learned that it was going to be published I just felt like that was
[21:24]the moment that you have something from the universe was delivering that to me in that moment
[21:31]because I needed that lesson that you know everything's not going to happen according to your plans
[21:37]and and I think that there were so many parts along the way where I felt like you know continuing
[21:45]to have trust which does not mean absence of doubt and persevering in that way and holding
[21:53]that you know a project will kind of come to be in its time and that however long it takes
[22:00]is kind of however long you need with it and at least that was true for me it was the time I needed
[22:05]with this particular story and so you know to other people who are in the middle of the process
[22:12]you know given up hope or thinking about giving up hope or halfway through a manuscript that kind of
[22:18]keep going but it's deeper than that like look for you know what the struggle you know what
[22:26]the rewrite what the next step what that can really teach you. That is really good advice
[22:34]seeing the process as more than the sum of its parts right that this is yeah it's meant to shape you
[22:41]in a different way so looking for those lessons oh I love that I'm going to be thinking about that
[22:46]that will stay with me for sure I have a question for you and you touched on it a little bit earlier
[22:52]and because I think it is so tricky to create something and then put it out in the world and
[22:57]you know leave it to Goodreads which is like just the the place I'm going to have to delete
[23:05]when my book comes out I just know I don't be like I can't I hear I am so it's such a strange
[23:13]but there's a scene in the book so mod isn't ready to share her writing quite yet because she
[23:17]says that her cousin says things that are nice but they don't go any further because you know
[23:22]their platitudes like oh yeah your writing is great what is your favorite thing to hear about your
[23:28]writing and I feel like anyone who's listening to this then can just take a quick note to give you
[23:33]that compliment so I'm happy to set you up with that but but what what is meaningful to you
[23:38]when somebody says this is X is what I got from your writing or I love how you do XYZ like what
[23:47]what feels good to you that is such a good question and I think you know I want to sit with it
[23:56]yeah I think that it's so meaningful to me when people say that my writing has made them
[24:03]feel deeply so that's my first okay first answer I also think that when people say that lines
[24:12]have stuck with them which you just did and you know in kind of describing that passage to me
[24:17]that's the mark of my favorite books when I underline lines and I love them so much I have to
[24:23]write them in my quote journal and I come back to them and they help me in those really hard
[24:28]life moments or great life moments that that is what I most intend to do and whether that's a
[24:34]particular line of the book or you know the Ella Montgomery's journey and how it made people feel
[24:41]that's that's what I'm really hoping that it kind of sticks with somebody beyond just the time
[24:49]that they're reading it I love that you shared that thank you for thinking through that because I
[24:54]think too that's a you know people who aren't writing I think it can be hard to encourage any
[25:02]friend or person that you love that's doing something that you're not doing right like
[25:06]absolutely my son's a runner and to me I'm like you know hey you still you did good
[25:13]and he wants specific praise not because he's needy for that but it just shows that I'm seeing
[25:21]what he's doing right that I'm entering it fully and so that's a gift I think people can give
[25:28]writers you're exactly like you're exactly right not to not to overfulf your ego but just to
[25:34]say I see what you've done and I see what you tried to do so yes yes absolutely and I just wrote
[25:41]actually I was writing the sub stack of called the creative sort about how we sort through creative
[25:47]decision-making and I wrote a post about project champions and like what it takes to really
[25:52]champion a creative project so just write along this line and how it was so important to me my
[26:00]husband has just been this book this book stupid for sure it's dedicated to him and so much of
[26:07]that was his truth-telling along the way and it was you know emotionally grounded truth-telling
[26:14]he was you know 100% behind me the whole time but he really was the person who gave me kind of the
[26:21]most honest feedback and I invited him into the space to do that yeah kind of really tender space
[26:28]early on and you know really helped me hone develop characters and so there's there's some of
[26:35]that too and you know then I trusted him more when he said later I loved this this is really working
[26:43]like this you know it's there's there's some of that like deep honest feedback too that can go
[26:49]a long way and I have had many many friends and parents who have been such champions in their
[26:57]positivity and encouragement and that's a huge piece of it too but that that real engagement and
[27:03]truth-telling I think is maybe an underrated part of it yes you're exactly right to have someone
[27:09]that's engaged with you and also supports you right is just such a gift well done husband very proud
[27:19]it's David right is that right David okay shout out to David way to go David David David gets a win
[27:26]I love husbands are there for it or it's partners I mean it's just so important because
[27:32]especially for them they're the ones that have to live with you while you're doing this
[27:35]true it's true and there were many days that were not pleasant perhaps so he deserves the shout out
[27:41]for sure it's so true I am wondering is writing what do you well what are you working on now it
[27:50]sounds like you have a sub stack so obviously I'm going to subscribe to that because it sounds
[27:54]amazing and I really do like you get a sense when you write in after and just the relationship
[28:02]between Anne and her house earth man Lucy and her mod why do I want to call it Lucy mod and her husband
[28:10]your first name right it goes by mod it's just designed to throw you off yeah it is do me a favor
[28:16]so she but the way you write about there intimacy and what's going on with them and just also it
[28:22]made me so grateful that we live in an age where there's more knowledge of medications and mental
[28:26]health because just between the Spanish flu and that I was like yep that's really not ideal
[28:32]yes I know so many modern day resonances and gratitude for yeah this you know the where we
[28:40]where we are um yes and medications and treatment and not keeping it all undercover you know just
[28:47]that's so important um you know the changing attitudes around divorce and in freedom for women
[28:53]in particular and relationships with another big big one that that I appreciate so much um having
[29:00]been with mod story well especially because for me also I always think back to these sorts of
[29:06]stories and I wonder what I would have done and I am very much a people pleaser and I doubt
[29:13]I would have been able to go against a tide of what was expected of me in that age and so the fact
[29:19]that she was able to kind of hold those two in opposition as well as she could is a testament to her
[29:28]bravery completely agree yeah so it feels like writing with such a refuge for her is it a refuge
[29:35]for you and what are you working on now it is absolutely a refuge for me it's where I
[29:45]connect most deeply with myself I've been really working on honoring myself as an introvert
[29:51]and out of reading this book quiet which is just amazing and love that book so valuable
[29:58]so valuable and it's
[30:00]It's made me realize, uh-huh, that's what writing is.
[30:03]That space that I carve out.
[30:04]That's the me time, that's the one that I kind of return to most regularly in my life
[30:10]and just help me to honor the importance of that for me even more, whether it's journaling
[30:15]or writing, a newsletter or writing a book.
[30:19]That's really that me go inside space and understand why that's so important for me.
[30:26]Absolutely a refuge.
[30:28]What I'm writing next is really in this thing, the same vein as the sub-sac,
[30:33]which is my journey to becoming an author, kind of the long, sort of journey that is best
[30:41]or to having a book published, it's the writing with all along.
[30:45]But, and then also the journey to becoming a mother after 16 years of going from no to maybe
[30:51]and really, really struggling with that decision.
[30:54]And I think that's a space that's just not talked about enough.
[30:58]There's so often a narrative in our culture of, you know, or you don't.
[31:01]You know, it's just a gut or you roll the dice or you're never ready and that
[31:05]the kind of really deep exploration of whether to become a parent and holding space for those
[31:10]that are uncertain, but that's okay or those that are, you know, certain that they don't want kids.
[31:16]That's okay. I'm really committed to having more space for those places, having been in
[31:21]them for so long. And so, and I'm writing in that in that memoir space.
[31:27]That's so exciting. I cannot wait to read it. I think you'll have a lot of really valuable
[31:35]takes on that. And I think you're exactly right because there are so many limiting
[31:42]narratives around how we decide about what we would like our family to look like.
[31:48]And then that intersection with, yeah, you're so gosh, there's a lot to explore there.
[31:52]Ooh, I can't wait to read your sub stack. And then you're my more one day.
[31:55]Thank you. Thank you, Julie.
[31:57]Oh, it's my pleasure. Logan, this was really a wonderful conversation. Thank you for being with me.
[32:03]Thanks for writing such a fantastic book. I can't wait for it to be out in the world.
[32:08]And I know that it is going to find its readers just like Anne of Green Gables did.
[32:13]So congratulations. Thank you so much.
[32:18]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:22]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:27]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[32:32]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Heck, Texture Sound for
[32:37]The Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[32:40]fantastic intro and out trim music.