Paula Faris, YOU DON'T HAVE TO CARRY IT ALL: Ditch the Mom Guilt and Find a Better Way Forward
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[1:03]Polyferis is the author of You Don't Have to Carry It All, Ditch the Mom Guilt, and Find
[1:06]A Better Way Forward.
[1:08]This episode has been guest-hosted by Julie Chavez, podcast hosts of Ask a Librarian, and
[1:14]author of the upcoming Zippy Books title, Everyone But My Self.
[1:18]Poly is the founder of Carry Media, which advocates for working moms through load lesson
[1:22]in content.
[1:23]Prior to founding Carry in 2022, she worked in network news, including Anchoring Good
[1:28]Morning America, and co-hosting the view.
[1:30]She has interviewed the likes of Reese Witherspoon, Tiger Woods, now President Joe Biden,
[1:35]and Nikki Haley.
[1:36]Polyferis lives in a small town in South Carolina with her husband, John, and their three
[1:41]children.
[1:42]Paula, welcome to momstone have time to read books.
[1:45]I'm so happy you're here today.
[1:47]I am so thrilled to be here today, and we've just like had a blast getting to know
[1:52]one another offline, and it is a small world because Julie, your parents are literally
[1:56]my neighbors in Poe Donk, South Carolina.
[1:59]I mean, I live in the middle of nowhere, and your parents are here.
[2:03]It is incredible, and like I told you, I kept reading the book, and some of the references
[2:07]I thought, gosh, this sounds close.
[2:09]I know I've been there when I visited my books, and it's such a beautiful area, but it
[2:14]is a small world after all.
[2:16]It is a small, small, small world.
[2:19]I love it.
[2:20]Well, oh my gosh, and I must congratulate you also on your small world though gaining a target.
[2:26]That is where that's where we know that things are on the up and up.
[2:30]I mean, I have said, and when you say target, we're talking about the retail store target,
[2:35]which I could live at, and the closest target.
[2:38]So I love everything about this area, but we don't have a target nearby.
[2:44]Yeah.
[2:45]It's 45 minutes, and we just learned that we have been approved for a target, and it is
[2:51]like the best news anyone has ever heard.
[2:54]Yes.
[2:55]You could say, like, the second coming was happening, or we're getting to target, and
[2:59]we would all choose a target.
[3:01]We cannot wait for the target to go in.
[3:05]I love everything about it.
[3:06]I would feel the same way, because there are certain things, and target does have that,
[3:10]like, I'm overwhelmed, and I need to just walk the aisle somewhere, target the place.
[3:15]It's therapy.
[3:16]Yes.
[3:17]I also feel that way about Sephora for some reason.
[3:20]And my husband informed me that they do a lot of research before they build their stores, and
[3:23]I was like, well, it shows I'm going there right now.
[3:26]So shout out to all our favorite retailers here.
[3:29]That's amazing, because I have to do that at Ulta, which is similar to Sephora.
[3:33]I don't like shopping for clothes.
[3:34]That gives me anxiety.
[3:35]I hate you.
[3:36]But I love target.
[3:37]I love TJ Maxx and Marshals.
[3:38]I have that therapy for me, and Ulta slash Sephora.
[3:41]I mean, I like shopping for makeup.
[3:44]I'm a lip gloss whore.
[3:45]Oh.
[3:46]I will buy every single kind of lip gloss that's out there.
[3:48]Well, because we're looking for the right one.
[3:51]I know.
[3:52]That's got to be a perfect one.
[3:53]So we just have to keep trying.
[3:54]And they discontinue.
[3:55]You find one, and then they discontinue it.
[3:57]Oh, that I don't think I've ever known such betrayal as that, right?
[4:02]And somebody discontinues your lip color.
[4:03]I'm like, why does the universe hate me?
[4:05]I know.
[4:06]I just did that yesterday.
[4:07]I was trying to reorder this lipstick that I love from Honest.
[4:09]It's discontinued.
[4:10]My favorite one from Mac is discontinued.
[4:12]I went on eBay.
[4:13]It's $90.
[4:14]I'm like, OK, I'll find another color.
[4:16]I'll find another one lipstick on eBay.
[4:21]I love that you went that direction with it, though, to check.
[4:23]I mean, some people are hustling lipstick.
[4:28]I just had no idea I would never have thought to hoard those.
[4:32]No.
[4:33]Well, I googled that I googled the color under shopping
[4:37]to see where else it would populate.
[4:39]And it said eBay.
[4:40]And I'm like, OK, how much is it going to be?
[4:42]Right.
[4:43]I just check.
[4:44]We'll find a new link.
[4:45]That feels a little aggressive.
[4:46]OK, well, aggressive.
[4:47]Yeah.
[4:48]In your spare time, you'll be looking for a new lip color.
[4:50]But I'm so happy that you're here today
[4:53]to talk about your book, which the title is,
[4:55]you don't have to carry it all, ditch the mom guilt,
[4:58]and find a better way forward.
[5:01]And I told you before we started that when
[5:03]I read the title of this book, I thought this book is for me.
[5:06]Have you had that reaction from a lot of moms or a lot of women?
[5:10]Yes.
[5:11]And that is like, as an author.
[5:13]And I know there's a lot of authors out there
[5:15]that write books routinely, like it's their job.
[5:18]This is my job to be an author.
[5:20]I just had this message that I had to write.
[5:23]And if I don't ever write another trade book,
[5:26]that's fine with me.
[5:27]I needed to get this message out there.
[5:29]And when I hear moms tell me,
[5:32]and I said that very Michigan, by the way.
[5:34]I was like, I love it.
[5:35]Moms.
[5:36]Moms put in the big.
[5:37]Mid in the bag.
[5:38]When I hear moms telling me that they feel seen and heard
[5:41]and valued and validated, that's all.
[5:44]That's all I need to know.
[5:45]And so I just, I believe that mother should be celebrated
[5:50]instead of scrutinized and punished.
[5:51]And it's just so difficult to be a mother or a little
[5:54]working mother here in America.
[5:56]And so, but yeah, that's the biggest compliment for me
[5:59]is just, I feel like moms have, I say it's a hog and a sword.
[6:06]You'll feel seen and heard, you'll feel empowered.
[6:08]And that's when I hear that that's happening.
[6:13]That's better than target.
[6:14]It's better than target.
[6:15]It's better than target.
[6:17]I mean, that makes total sense.
[6:19]And I really love hearing that because that was my reaction.
[6:23]I mean, I was following my husband around
[6:25]when I was reading through the book,
[6:26]reading things to him and I said, listen to this.
[6:28]And so it does.
[6:29]It kind of makes you feel equal parts.
[6:31]I think really validated because, and I'll start here.
[6:36]The thing that I really liked is that I think sometimes
[6:40]as a mom, because there is this tendency toward mom guilt
[6:43]and so many things that the world keeps asking
[6:46]and you're never gonna keep up with it.
[6:48]But what your book does is reminds us,
[6:49]this isn't an individual failure.
[6:51]This is a stomach failure.
[6:54]There's no, you can't out exercise a bad diet.
[6:57]You can't outwork this system, no matter how efficient you are.
[7:01]You're never gonna get there.
[7:02]So I think that's such a validating thing for people
[7:06]to hear because it can be so heavy
[7:07]to feel like you're not doing enough.
[7:10]Yeah, and you feel like you're all alone in it.
[7:13]And I think for us to realize that we're not alone.
[7:19]And there's nothing wrong with us for feeling like this.
[7:22]And it's because the system isn't set up
[7:24]to support motherhood, let alone working motherhood.
[7:27]And that's nothing that we did wrong.
[7:30]It's nothing that we did wrong.
[7:34]But I also want the book to feel,
[7:37]and that's the journalist in me, helpful and hopeful
[7:41]and empowering and that there's tools.
[7:43]So I don't want it to be like the world is ending.
[7:46]It's look, this sucks and it's not a good situation,
[7:50]but it's gonna get better and it's getting better.
[7:53]And here's how we can have a hand
[7:55]in making sure that that happens.
[7:57]So I mean, I think the empowering aspect
[8:01]was really, really important for me.
[8:03]I think there's a lot of books out there
[8:04]that ripped the bandaid off and reveal the ugly truth.
[8:08]I wanted to reveal the ugly truth.
[8:10]And for me, it was important to interview historians
[8:13]and sociologists and talk to thought leaders
[8:15]about why is this so hard to be a mother in America?
[8:19]And why are we more burned out than ever before?
[8:21]Why are we penalized from motherhood?
[8:25]But then, and not just how we can give mother support
[8:29]they need and deserve, but the why behind it.
[8:32]The why is where a lot of people don't understand,
[8:34]they understand the how we can do it,
[8:36]the nuts and bolts, the X's and nose.
[8:38]And here's how we could do it.
[8:40]But a lot of people don't understand the why.
[8:42]And so that's that right there is the validating part.
[8:45]This is why we're important.
[8:48]This is why motherhood should be celebrated.
[8:51]This is what we uniquely bring to the table.
[8:53]It's like finally, you know?
[8:56]Somebody is, you know, I wanted people to feel like
[8:58]finally someone is like speaking up for working moms
[9:02]is speaking up for motherhood.
[9:04]Because I'm tired of apologizing
[9:06]I'm tired of this society,
[9:08]scrutinizing us and penalizing us and telling us
[9:11]that we have to work like we don't have kids
[9:13]and have kids like we don't have a job.
[9:14]It's just, it's like it's talking out of both sides
[9:17]of its mouth.
[9:18]We say we're a family friendly country, but really not.
[9:20]No.
[9:21]But really not at the end of the day.
[9:22]We're not.
[9:23]And you point that out in so many effective ways in this book.
[9:26]I really appreciated that.
[9:29]And to your point too, I feel like I had this thought
[9:32]after I read through the book where we talk a lot
[9:35]about the mental load right now, which is so real and so valid.
[9:39]But then also to think, how can I kind of flip this script
[9:44]for myself and say, wow, look at all the things I do manage.
[9:47]Look at all the things that we are doing.
[9:49]And then how do you push that and make that into kind of
[9:54]fuel to move forward in these other ways.
[9:57]And I love what you talked about with,
[10:00]in your salary. I mean, just these basic things that, yeah, are really helpful. I work in
[10:04]education. So unfortunately, that's useless to me for today, but maybe later, I'll be using it,
[10:10]but it's a good lesson. No, it is a good lesson. And sometimes it's good to know like, okay,
[10:15]there's a, well, their motherhood penalty exists. We make 70 cents on the dollar compared to
[10:19]fathers and we're passed over on promotions. And we're scrutinized when we take off time to be with
[10:23]our children. But the fathers enjoy something conversely, it's called the fatherhood bonus. They're
[10:28]more likely to be higher than man without children. And they're paid more because they're
[10:33]parents. So it's like just even it knowing it's my friends said that the book felt like myth
[10:39]busting to her, you know, and I was like, that's actually a really good description. Yes. And so I
[10:44]love to hear like, I have it in my own mind, what the book, what I want the book to do. But when I hear
[10:50]other people describe it and when she said myth busting, I was like, that's so, that's awesome. Because
[10:55]it gives you context too. And context is really important. But context to, okay, we are making 70
[11:02]cents on the dollar and compared to fathers and yes, that sucks. But and we're not, you know,
[11:07]we're not asking for raises because like we're, and when we ask for a raise, we're asking for 30%
[11:12]less than men do. So we're, and we're asking for them three three times less than they do. So yes,
[11:17]the system isn't set up, but we also like, I think it's important that we settle into knowing
[11:23]our worth and advocating for it too. And so it's like I said, there's a lot of stats and a lot of
[11:29]research and a lot of stories to just give you the ammunition that you need to make sure that we
[11:36]are taking those steps forward to making sure that there's a better way forward. Because it doesn't
[11:41]have to be like this for our kids. It's very piece of what we're dealing with. That's another
[11:46]thing, Julie. It's very generational. Yes. Very general. One million percent. And it's
[11:52]interesting to see it. You're exactly right. Because I was just thinking as you were talking,
[11:55]this is something that you're doing for you and you're also doing for your kids because it's
[12:00]the same, the things we can open up for them. And so much of that was coded into our generation,
[12:07]right? Like there was a lot of absorption of those messages. So seeing them and refusing to continue
[12:14]to abide by them since they are myths. Anyway, I think that's such a good message. I really,
[12:21]let's talk about, oh, sorry. I also did want to tell you that one of the titles that I was
[12:25]considering for my book, which we wouldn't use because it does oversimplify, but I found it
[12:29]hilarious. And it was in my next life, I'm going to be a dad. And I say it all the time at my house.
[12:42]Why? Why can't you, I mean, I love your thing. Maybe it'll come back around, right?
[12:48]The stuff that comes out of my husband's mouth sometimes. Like the other day, he said,
[12:53]where do you go? Like he didn't know the name of their middle school. And I said,
[12:56]in my next life, I'm going to be a dad. It seems awesome. Yeah. It does. And you know what?
[13:02]It that's where like it's so important that like we invite the men into this conversation and
[13:08]generate of the book is all about how we can do that. And realizing a lot of times,
[13:13]and I'm not saying that men are innocent here, okay? But and the owners can't be on the
[13:18]marginalized person, which is the mother to get them to figure it out. But they have grown up
[13:23]being told that they should be a good man or, you know, there's like be a good man or a real
[13:29]man. And those are two different things. They've also been told that they're only as good as the
[13:32]paycheck that they bring home. And to be the provider or they're worthless. And so men have kind
[13:38]of grown up with their own set of toxic messages and their own paychecker nowhere near the extent.
[13:43]But so much of it is generational. And that's why I'm so I am so encouraged by this next generation
[13:51]to see. I see it all the time. Dad's stepping up. And it's not like they're stepping up.
[13:56]They're they're partnering, which is what it's all about. But so much so many of our problems
[14:03]began in June. Clevers freaking kitchen in the 1950s when we pushed men out of the home and we
[14:08]pushed women out of the workplace. And then when women had to eventually get back in the workplace,
[14:13]men were already pushed out of the home. So the woman just began absorbing it all. And when you
[14:18]think about it, if we do offer any sort of family leave, it's almost always maternity leave,
[14:23]which from the get go, Julie, the onus is on the mother to do it all. She becomes the she fault
[14:31]as he rotsky says, right out of the gate. So so much of it is generational. And that's why
[14:37]I'm just so encouraged to see men picking like my husband this morning. I was sitting on the couch
[14:42]I have some quiet time in the morning before the kids get up. He's justipping my coffee. And
[14:47]he was putting away the dishes and my little guy, my nine-year-old walks in. And I am so glad he gets
[14:52]to see that. You know, I am so glad that he doesn't see his mother running around like a mom
[14:57]martyr anymore trying to do it all and trying to carry it all. I have invited my husband into
[15:02]this conversation. I'm like, no more. We are partners here. In every sense of the imagination,
[15:06]there's no excuse that for you to not know your kid's teacher's name, by the end of course,
[15:12]it is me. You know, but at the same time, the system isn't set up to include them, right? It's like
[15:20]PTA. It's always they send it out to the moms. They do everything to the moms. And so it's like
[15:26]we just need to start over all most. And so I don't fault men for everything. A lot of it is
[15:33]generational. A lot of it is the toxic messages. It's just what we know, right? Yes. Well, and that's
[15:39]such an important point that you make because so much of this is we don't know better until
[15:49]and your book really gives that opportunity because yeah, my husband, I mean, it's interesting
[15:54]that you say that because he is the one who cooks primarily around here, which is great,
[15:58]except when he travels and then we all starve and we each bully all the time. But it's fine.
[16:03]I'm like, just see your cereal. I don't care. Whatever you need to do. You're gonna be fine.
[16:07]Stay alive till dad comes home. But it was funny because, you know, he's a dad and there have been
[16:13]times where the children have said things like, I don't like this dish. And that doesn't really go
[16:17]over great with him. And so my son said, I can't wait to cook dinner for my family. I don't
[16:22]want to say this is what I made. And this is what you're eating. And it was so funny when he said
[16:29]it. And I thought that is so great because he is just picking up that message. And it won't even be
[16:34]something that would occur to him as being a big deal. Or like the woman's job or the woman's job to
[16:41]cook the food. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. I, you know, my, you know, when I first got married,
[16:48]my husband, I first got married and we've been married like 23 years. And I remember, you know,
[16:53]my mom had a hard time with me working outside of the home and being the primary breadwinner. His
[16:59]mom told me I needed to cook for him more often. But I'm like, so much of it is just the generation.
[17:03]Absolutely. It's the generation. And for me, also, I grew up in a very strict conservative Christian
[17:10]home. And the scriptures were often weaponized. And a lot of women grow up in traditions and
[17:17]cultures and religions that diminish their roles in at home and in the workforce and in society.
[17:23]So a lot of us are dealing with those too. So, but I think that's incredible. And there's so
[17:29]many stats to show that the children of working mothers. I mean, there's so many benefits. The
[17:35]sons are better partners. They're incredible fathers. They help out more. You know, they pick up
[17:41]some of that mental load. And but yet we often think we're breaking our children or doing them
[17:47]a disservice when we're when we're working. And that's so much of the guilt where the guilt comes in.
[17:52]But like, mom guilt doesn't exist in other countries. They have no choice but to work, right? And
[17:56]they take a lot of pride in it. But they also have societal health and family health and community
[18:04]assistance. So it's a much different situation. It really is. But you're exactly right seeing
[18:10]the just looking at it from a different, a different lens in that way and saying, okay,
[18:16]this is something that we can slowly set up for them and give them a path forward that's better
[18:23]than the one that we had. Yeah, totally. I love how you talk about, well, you address the resilience
[18:29]that you give to kids, which is really, I really love to the story of you talking to your daughter
[18:34]after your miscarriage. Like that was, I really think that's so important. And to your point,
[18:40]kids, you know, seeing from their parents that were not necessarily meeting all their needs,
[18:46]that that is a good thing. And it's tough to balance because I know for me for a number of years,
[18:51]I thought that the best thing I could be for my kids was available. That that was the best way
[18:55]I would show them. I loved them as opposed to not being around all the time, which is actually
[19:00]a gift to them. So how did you, how do you feel like that works out for you in your life now?
[19:06]I think, you know, I've come a long way even in the last five years because I pumped the breaks
[19:11]at the height of my career in 2018 when I was anchoring Good Morning America and co-hosting the
[19:16]view and so much of it was the mom guilt that I felt, you know, like I felt like I wasn't there.
[19:21]And truly, though, when you look at it, like I was not, I was my hours were all over the place.
[19:27]There was no consistency. And I really did want to be present with my children. And then I lost
[19:32]my job two years later. They chose not to resign. We like a lot of moms lost their job at the
[19:37]beginning of the pandemic. And I learned now to instead of demonizing work, okay, because the
[19:43]reality is, and that's why I'm so passionate about the work we're doing for Carrie, Carrie
[19:48]Media, which is what we want to carry the birds of working moms through content. But I'm so passionate
[19:53]excited about it because I think we have, well, first of all, 70% of mothers
[20:00]will be the primary breadwinner for their children
[20:02]at the for their family at some point in their children's lives
[20:05]and more mothers most moms are working because they have to
[20:08]and so just understanding for me I had so many blind spots
[20:13]you know I had I had my own echo chambers I was listening to but just
[20:17]doing the research and realizing like it's it's not a choice for most families
[20:22]yes most moms are working because they have to
[20:24]but also I'm at the point now where
[20:27]I invite my children into it so instead of
[20:31]demonizing work which I did a really good job of doing before like
[20:35]mommy's gone or two gonna miss me so much if I'm gone for more than two days
[20:38]I'll buy you something because it's the worst thing in the world that mommy's
[20:40]going to be gone I'll be home in two sleeps
[20:43]a friend of mine told me that kids have something called mirror
[20:46]neurons so mirror neurons essentially means if I say
[20:50]this is awful your kids are going to say this is awful if I say this is good
[20:53]your kids are going to say this is good and so just kind of changing
[20:57]how I talk about work a it's necessary yeah but
[21:01]be I don't demonize and I'm look at the great things and granted I'm in a
[21:05]good place where I'm an entrepreneur I'm a founder I'm kind of choosing what I
[21:09]want to do right and I know a lot of people aren't in that situation
[21:13]but I invite my children into the process and I'm like
[21:16]look at all this these exciting opportunities for the mommy gets to have
[21:21]and really champion mothers and families and I tell them about
[21:25]you know things that are happening in my day and I invite them and they ask
[21:28]questions about it they feel like they're part of it
[21:31]and I invite them and I say what's an acceptable amount of travel what's not
[21:35]an acceptable amount of travel because it has to work for your whole family
[21:38]and when you invite them into that process it really changes things for
[21:42]them they're they don't see work is the awful
[21:46]awful thing that takes their mommy away from them they see it as
[21:49]an opportunity for for mom or dad to really use their gifts and calling
[21:56]right callings to to do the things that are on their heart and your kids always
[22:00]know you're a priority but again it's how you talk about it right it's how
[22:04]you talk about it so that's really changed the way that it's changed my
[22:09]relationship with with work it changed my relationship with my kids
[22:13]and you know my friend who taught me this he said you know it's no wonder our kids
[22:17]are 18 and they don't want to get a job because we've demonized it and we've
[22:20]said a source thing ever so and but the reality is most people I know I
[22:24]thought that was so interesting how we talk about it so and kids will pick
[22:29]up on that and my kids don't talk about it negatively anymore and
[22:32]they're part of the conversation and they get they have a stake in it
[22:36]they can tell us if we're trapped if we're doing too much and we're like okay
[22:39]we're listening that's okay we got it you know yes so
[22:43]yeah giving them opportunities to partner with you
[22:47]just when we're talking about opportunities that's so good
[22:50]your partner to be partnered with you it's like they're your smaller partners
[22:55]less that's a really good way to put it that's minority investors as it were
[22:59]exactly yeah but they're invested yeah and I think that gives them
[23:04]a really good model too for when they get older in terms of
[23:08]what choices they're going to make around work and what choices they can make
[23:12]around work to the extent that it's possible for them because
[23:15]some things are what they are and you got to just make it work but then
[23:19]the ones that you do have control over what do you do there
[23:22]yeah yeah no I think I think that that's a really good way to just
[23:26]have your kids partner with you I mean it honestly has changed the way that I
[23:31]relate to my kids about and it's changed my relationship with work too yeah
[23:36]so that's been a yes yeah I bet that's a really good
[23:39]tell me more a little bit or excuse me tell me a little bit more about
[23:42]kerry media you were saying yes so boarding moms
[23:45]so when I lost my job right the beginning of the pandemic and TV news and
[23:49]you know that's all I'd ever done Julie so I I was you know I like a lot of
[23:54]other moms had to figure out what to do in that moment
[23:57]what was that time like before you move on from that you you aren't
[24:01]resigned by the network like what what was that moment like for you
[24:04]personally got punch for sure it was it got punch because it came out of
[24:08]nowhere like my agent was really totally surprised it didn't make any
[24:12]sense but I often think that like we have to be pushed on to our path
[24:17]and so on you know your your your purpose can come through your pain
[24:20]and so I say like this wasn't what I wanted but it was absolutely what I needed
[24:25]and it's been the most beautiful chapter for our family I couldn't have
[24:28]scripted it any better but it has but it came out of came out of
[24:31]pain so in that moment where I lost my job but I was like what do I do
[24:36]as all I've known as I used to say I could do nothing there's nothing else I
[24:40]could do except work in television news and be a reporter and anchor
[24:43]because that's all I'd ever known I had given myself permission to try
[24:46]anything different and so I was like do I stay in TV news that's the safe
[24:50]expected comfortable choice and I had other job offers sure do I go for this
[24:55]thing I you know for like eight years I had had this like
[24:59]burning desire and that wasn't eight years it started after the birth of my
[25:04]third kid so that was 2014 okay so I was like had for five six years it had
[25:09]been burning and me to like really just advocate for for mothers and
[25:15]mothers in the workplace knowing how I was treated how so many the other
[25:19]moms I saw how they were treated in the workplace just because they were a
[25:22]mother we get back to that motherhood penalty yes and I was like this isn't
[25:25]right you know as a journalist you're always looking for marginalized groups
[25:29]and inequities and I'm like motherhood is marginalized we're paid less
[25:34]value less than scrutinize more once we become moms and so I just I knew I had to
[25:39]go for this thing had no idea what it was gonna look like so you know
[25:44]coming out of a season of loss losing my job we came down here to South Carolina
[25:48]for what we thought would be a couple of weeks ended up just staying here
[25:51]and decided to really start advocating for working moms
[25:56]came up with the name carry because moms we carry burdens we carry so much we
[26:01]carry our children so we want to help carry the burden for
[26:05]working moms and formed carry about a year and a half ago and we
[26:10]provide low-lessening content you know for working moms we're there to
[26:14]advocate for working moms so we're just getting started and so we started with
[26:18]a weekly newsletter for and by working moms which is again it's got a lot of
[26:22]low-lessening content like we see you we hear you if you don't laugh about it
[26:26]you'll cry uh so true but it's it I feel like working moms is like a subset
[26:32]that's just kind of ignored and yes I believe all moms work okay yes
[26:36]but there's 35 million mothers in the workplace that are
[26:40]working and are being penalized for it and I'm like I want to speak to that
[26:44]because there's lots of organizations that are speaking to women and lots of
[26:48]companies that are speaking to mothers but I want to speak directly to the
[26:52]working mom because she is busting her ass she's juggling a million
[26:57]things she's most legally working because she
[26:59]has to she might want to let's not villainize that either
[27:03]no um and she's um being unfairly penalized and she's juggling a
[27:08]thousand and one things and never feel like never feels like she's
[27:12]nailing it so I'm like I want to give her a voice I want her to feel seen and
[27:15]heard so that's what we've been doing so well I love that you are I will be
[27:20]signing up for that newsletter post-paste
[27:23]yay it's every Sunday it's weekly it's like a five-minute read it's free
[27:28]we love doing it and that's what we do and what's the website for signing up for
[27:32]that carrymedia.com that's a c-a-r-r-y um and it's the
[27:38]k-b-carey all is our weekly newsletter um and it's it's awesome
[27:42]it's load lessening content for working moms all kinds of tips and
[27:46]again if you don't laugh about it you'll cry it's so true I think anything that
[27:51]gives moms and women permission to put things down
[27:55]right and that's exactly what you're doing where you just put
[27:58]everything in there so and I also love that your book even speaks to that
[28:02]because you said that we get 14 minutes a day to
[28:05]ourselves which I read that and I was like that sounds about right
[28:08]and it is in 14 minutes section so for anyone who's interested they're going to
[28:12]pick this up and be able to really go through it in a way that works for
[28:18]your life this is not you you did a good job of including
[28:22]history and perspective but it's not so exhaustive that it made my eyes
[28:27]bleed because sometimes non-fiction can do that. I know I
[28:30]I completely agree that's why I love that term myth busted it's like
[28:33]there's a reason that you're feeling the way you do
[28:37]and but it's gonna get better so and I want I want us to all feel like we're
[28:41]gonna be part of the solution for the next generation because I really do
[28:44]think we are and you know getting back to the digestible content I know work
[28:48]moms don't have time to read so I was like it's really important we put it in
[28:52]like quick little section so because I'm reading a book now
[28:56]and I'm like is this chapter gonna I've been on the same chapter
[29:00]for like the last four nights because I read before I go to bed and I'm like
[29:04]please just a quick what when's the next like break in the tester and there
[29:08]aren't any so that's where there's lots of little breaks
[29:11]it just quick sections so you can consume it
[29:14]and there's the audio version which has been super popular actually like my
[29:18]publishers like wow we didn't even think about that but like I'm like
[29:21]moms don't have time to read but we can listen to the book
[29:24]it's so true and we can probably listen to it on the faster speed because we're
[29:28]just that tuned yes we are so we sure are
[29:33]what is next for you so you're going to be working with carry
[29:36]media what what's the next thing on what's the next thing on your list
[29:42]that you are going to do just for you just for me oh my gosh
[29:46]and you know that's one thing I addressed in the book is that there's a
[29:49]reason we're burnt out at record levels
[29:52]that mothers are and so often we're saying no radically to
[29:55]everything clearing our plate but we're also when we're saying no we're
[30:00]and some of the things that bring us joy.
[30:01]And so I think that's really important to do,
[30:04]and it's not selfish, okay?
[30:06]It's not self-care, it is not self-ish.
[30:08]Just ensuring that you don't have to carry it all.
[30:11]But weaving in, like you said,
[30:13]something that brings you just radical joy.
[30:15]And it could be, I'm gonna happen to my car for three hours
[30:18]and take a drive in the countryside
[30:20]and you know, stop a little country stores along the way.
[30:23]I just took, so I write in the book
[30:26]that I said yes to something that gave me joy.
[30:27]And I took a trapez yoga class, okay?
[30:32]Which just brought me tons of joy.
[30:34]It was just something fun and adventurous.
[30:36]So last Friday, I was like,
[30:38]I'm gonna take this water aerobics class at the Y.
[30:42]I just joined and I was like,
[30:44]I love old people and I've always made fun
[30:48]of those classes, okay?
[30:49]I think we all have, right?
[30:50]Of course.
[30:51]Those old ladies kicked my ass, so to be a director.
[30:54]So I signed up for an, it was,
[30:56]do you say aquatic or aquatic?
[30:57]Aquatic challenge with any of the class.
[30:59]Aquatic.
[31:00]I'm like, I sound funny when I say aquatic.
[31:03]I signed up for this class.
[31:05]I'm coming back every Friday.
[31:06]Like I'm a regular,
[31:07]I've invited some of my other friends.
[31:09]So something just,
[31:10]it doesn't have to be like,
[31:11]I'm going to get a $200 massage.
[31:13]It's like, I'm taking a class
[31:15]that's just gonna be super fun for me.
[31:18]I'm driving in the countryside
[31:20]or I am gonna go shopping alone.
[31:23]I'm gonna walk up and down the aisles of Target or Sephora.
[31:28]Yes.
[31:29]With a coffee in my hand.
[31:31]So it's really important that we'd say yes to things
[31:35]that bring us radical joy.
[31:37]And they don't,
[31:38]they're often not big things
[31:39]and they don't really cost anything.
[31:41]Except for the $300 you're gonna put down
[31:43]on 10 bottles of,
[31:45]or 10 tubes of lip gloss and primer.
[31:47]Yes, yes, we do have to account for that.
[31:50]But other than that,
[31:52]the walking around, that won't cost you anything.
[31:54]The walking around doesn't cost you a thing.
[31:56]So, but it's so important to realize
[32:00]that we're burned out at record levels here
[32:02]in this country as moms.
[32:03]And there's a reason for that.
[32:05]And you're not alone.
[32:07]The system's not set up to support us.
[32:09]The country's not set up to support us.
[32:10]Attitudes aren't set up to support us.
[32:12]You know, it's your kid, your problem.
[32:14]But things are changing with this new generational
[32:16]and that's what we have to remember.
[32:18]So much of the tension we feel
[32:19]is because of the generations.
[32:21]The most traditional family in American history.
[32:24]And this is what I tackle in chapter three.
[32:27]And I totally nerd it out.
[32:28]It wasn't the 1950s family,
[32:30]which we think was so traditional, right?
[32:32]Which, by the way,
[32:33]was good for part of the people,
[32:34]part of the time
[32:35]because black people couldn't work.
[32:36]And women were pushed out of the workforce
[32:38]and I could go on.
[32:40]Oh yeah, the dangers of nostalgia,
[32:42]which you didn't really do job.
[32:43]The dangers of nostalgia,
[32:44]we want the feeling,
[32:45]but not the reality.
[32:46]But the most traditional family
[32:47]in all of American history,
[32:48]which is short,
[32:49]not been around very long,
[32:51]was that when the mother and father,
[32:53]the partners worked side by side,
[32:55]they labored together,
[32:56]they produced together,
[32:57]they raised the children together,
[32:59]but they worked side by side.
[33:00]It wasn't this bifurcation of,
[33:01]oh, you go work, I'll stay home,
[33:03]they work together,
[33:04]they raised the children together.
[33:06]That was the most traditional family in America.
[33:08]And that was one of those moments I was like,
[33:10]oh my God,
[33:11]I had a lot of aha moments,
[33:13]but a lot of boy,
[33:14]I had so many blind spots that were revealed
[33:17]when I was talking to experts
[33:19]and thought leaders about this stuff.
[33:20]So.
[33:21]Well, thank you so much for writing this book,
[33:26]for being someone who has a passion
[33:28]and not only a passion to address it
[33:32]and kind of expose these inequities,
[33:34]but also has a very hopeful posture
[33:37]that there is a way forward
[33:39]and that we can work on it
[33:42]in our little universes
[33:44]and also in our wider universe together.
[33:46]So I'm so glad,
[33:47]and I'm so glad we got to talk
[33:48]about your book today.
[33:49]Thanks for being here.
[33:50]And I'm so excited for your book.
[33:52]It is called,
[33:53]in my next life,
[33:54]I wanna be a dad,
[33:55]but should we change the title?
[33:57]Right, I'll get right on that.
[33:59]I'm sure they would love nothing more.
[34:01]I'm telling you what,
[34:02]that is hilarious,
[34:04]I would pick that up.
[34:04]I mean, I love the other title too,
[34:07]but this one makes me laugh.
[34:09]And I'm like, I know what this book's gonna be.
[34:10]I know what this book's gonna be about.
[34:12]Well, maybe we can co-write it.
[34:14]Hey, I'm down.
[34:16]I mean, since we'll hang out at Target
[34:18]when I come visit my folks,
[34:19]so it's, we're set up.
[34:20]We're gonna go.
[34:21]I think we should,
[34:22]I wanna do a series that's,
[34:24]you know, like Jay Shaddie did a book called Think Like a Monk.
[34:27]Oh yeah.
[34:28]I think we need to do something
[34:29]that's like, think like a mom,
[34:31]work like a mom.
[34:33]I don't know, whatever like a mom,
[34:35]because mom's freaking awesome,
[34:37]but we don't have to carry it off.
[34:39]And we can,
[34:40]but we don't need to anymore.
[34:42]We don't need to.
[34:43]Yeah.
[34:44]Well, we will end it there.
[34:45]Thanks so much, friend.
[34:46]Okay, bye.
[34:48]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[34:51]Don't have time to read books.
[34:52]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[34:54]at Zebioans and at Moms.
[34:56]Don't have time to read books.
[34:57]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[35:00]and sign up for my virtual book club
[35:02]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[35:04]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[35:06]that texture sound for the sound editing.
[35:08]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[35:10]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.