Avery Carpenter Forrey, SOCIAL ENGAGEMENT: A Novel
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[1:03]Avery Carpenter for A is the author of social engagement, a novel.
[1:07]Avery is a writer and editor whose work has appeared in the cut, GQ and elsewhere.
[1:11]As managing editor at the skim, she co-wrote the number one, New York Times bestseller,
[1:16]How to Skim Your Life.
[1:17]She holds an MFA in fiction from NYU and lives in Connecticut with her husband and daughter.
[1:22]Welcome Avery.
[1:23]Thank you so much for coming on moms.
[1:24]Don't have time to read books, discuss social engagement and novel.
[1:28]Thank you so much for having me Zippy.
[1:30]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:32]Your cover is like my favorite color blue.
[1:34]So I'll just see no sleep with this guy.
[1:36]You know, next to my bed forever.
[1:37]It's something blue, which I love for wedding seasons.
[1:41]Yes.
[1:42]Perfect.
[1:43]Bring it with you if you have any on your calendar this summer or just put in your
[1:46]beach bag.
[1:47]Yes.
[1:48]Exactly.
[1:49]That's very smart.
[1:50]Okay.
[1:51]Tell listeners what your book is about, please.
[1:53]So social engagement is about a bride whose marriage implodes on the night of her wedding.
[1:58]And after this disastrous breakup, you don't know what happened in the fight, but we
[2:02]find her in the honeymoon suite with an empty pizza box, stained dress, and she's scrolling
[2:08]through her phone to try to figure out what went wrong.
[2:10]And she looks through her Instagram feed and her camera roll to piece together what happened.
[2:15]And you know, there are frog female friendships.
[2:17]There are some class dynamics.
[2:19]There are toxic ex-boyfriends.
[2:20]There's a lot to chew on.
[2:22]Yes.
[2:23]And I love how you structure it with, at the beginning of each chapter, you have like
[2:27]a little something, either a photo or a poster, like something interesting that makes
[2:31]you want to dive right in, which is very clever.
[2:34]Yes.
[2:35]I liked using those as anchors because we do sort of use them as touch points in our lives.
[2:39]I mean, we're living so much online now as we both know.
[2:43]So it was under structure that way.
[2:46]And it's so clever to your title, social engagement.
[2:49]Because yes, of course, it's like an event, this is the wedding and all that, but social
[2:53]engagement, still with like social media, like it's a dual meeting, which I love, which
[2:59]is really fun.
[3:02]I loved that play.
[3:03]And that title came into play.
[3:05]I'm always fascinated by title journeys.
[3:06]It came in later on in the process.
[3:09]My editor after acquiring the book came up with it.
[3:12]And I hadn't come up with the perfect title.
[3:14]And the second she said that, I was like, absolute, that's it.
[3:17]That's done.
[3:18]Yes.
[3:19]What was yours?
[3:20]Did you have a working title?
[3:21]Yes.
[3:23]Okay.
[3:24]Some of the body themes in the book and obviously social media content, which I liked.
[3:28]It was more of the sort of normal people Sally Bruni ask take, I think, but it wasn't
[3:33]at clear what the book was about and social engagement.
[3:36]You kind of know, okay, this is weddings and social media, which is what the book is perfect.
[3:42]How did you come up with the idea for this book?
[3:45]So I was going to a lot of weddings when I started writing it.
[3:47]It was 2019 and I had gotten married in like 2017.
[3:51]And I was sort of just in the stage of life where a lot of my friends were getting married,
[3:55]going to a ton of weddings.
[3:56]And I started noticing a lot of trends and sort of the irony that the most unique day
[4:02]of your life or one of the most special days in your life is often reduced to these series
[4:06]of cliches and flattened online when you're not the one who's part of it.
[4:10]And I wanted to explore that.
[4:12]But then I started writing the book and weddings grinded to a halt in 2020.
[4:17]So I wasn't going to any weddings anymore.
[4:19]So then it sort of shifted to become an escapist exercise.
[4:23]And I could go to parties in fiction while my real life was sweatpants and, you know, zoom
[4:32]birthday parties and not that.
[4:34]So it got a lot darker, I think, because of the pandemic, I originally conceived a bit as
[4:39]a fun, frothy wedding romp.
[4:42]And there are a lot of deeper, darker themes in it now.
[4:45]Interesting.
[4:46]What did all your friends do who were going to get married?
[4:50]But then the pandemic happened.
[4:51]I'm not in that face of life where that was because of a variety of things.
[4:55]Most of them postponed it.
[4:56]My sister was engaged at the time, actually.
[4:58]And she postponed it and got married in late 2021.
[5:02]But even still, it was, you know, you never knew whether you were going to have to put
[5:06]it off.
[5:07]And then I had a few zoom weddings that were just family and a bunch of people tuned in for
[5:13]the wedding itself.
[5:14]The comment section on the zoom was always fascinating.
[5:16]I kind of wish that real life weddings could have that.
[5:21]Like, I mean, that's the one thing about zoom weddings.
[5:23]It was really fun.
[5:24]You've got to see people's reactions in real time when in real life you can't talk during
[5:28]the ceremony, obviously, but true.
[5:31]The good thing too about zoom for any type of events is like, then you've got to see
[5:35]my cousin actually got married on zoom now that I'm thinking about it, but like you could
[5:38]see her face, like sometimes when you're sitting in the back row, you don't even know
[5:41]what's going on.
[5:42]And you're like straining to see and totally it's like watching a concert on the jump
[5:46]of Tron.
[5:47]Yes.
[5:48]And instead of actually watching the person, yeah, maybe this is a new thing.
[5:52]Maybe now all weddings should have sort of the screens up.
[5:56]Right.
[5:57]Yeah.
[5:58]Screens behind.
[5:59]I know.
[6:00]I mean, there are tiny little screens anyways at every wedding.
[6:03]I mean, I don't know if you've been to any that say no social media, that's becoming
[6:07]a thing now.
[6:08]People don't want any pictures because then you get the professional pictures back.
[6:12]And there are a million cameras everywhere, but it's also nice to have those iPhone
[6:17]takes, I think, to see when I got married to Kyle, who's my second husband, I said no
[6:22]social media to everybody who came because I wasn't even on social media then this is
[6:26]only six years ago, maybe I had one account I was using for my business that I did with
[6:33]his family for new new streets.
[6:34]But anyway, we made like a special app where people could upload so that it was all in
[6:40]one place.
[6:41]Oh, that's really, we didn't develop the app.
[6:43]It was something like some service and we just said, if you want to take pictures, upload
[6:47]them after here and it was like one giant album, almost like a shared.
[6:50]I love that.
[6:51]Wait, that's really smart.
[6:53]I like that a lot because there is, I mean, one of my, if people ever ask me, like
[6:58]someone's getting married and they're like, what do you wish you did differently on your
[7:00]wedding night or what was your best piece of advice for wedding night?
[7:03]And I'm always like, don't look at your phone all night.
[7:05]Like just keep your phone, put it in a lock box, put it somewhere else and come back
[7:10]to it later, but you don't want to be thinking about that when you're in the moment.
[7:14]And I like the share album thing.
[7:15]That's, it was good.
[7:17]Tell me about your wedding.
[7:19]So my wedding was a winter wedding.
[7:21]We got married in December or 2017 and it was very, I mean, it's interesting.
[7:25]I feel like in writing this book oftentimes you think, you know, in some ways a critique
[7:30]of wedding culture and it pokes fun at wedding culture, but I'm very much part of that.
[7:35]Like I had a big traditional wedding.
[7:36]It was, you know, 300 people at my parents' house.
[7:41]It felt like a holiday party almost.
[7:42]It was in December.
[7:43]It was amazing.
[7:44]I was just looking at pictures of it recently because it feels like a million years ago.
[7:49]Now that I've had a baby, but you know, that sort of warped time and interestingly.
[7:54]But yeah, there was a, I actually heard Curtis Sintonfeld, why no, you've talked
[7:58]to use this quote from Saul Bello when she was talking about what makes her tech when
[8:04]she's writing.
[8:05]And it was, I'm not an ornithologist.
[8:07]I'm a bird, which reflected like she is always within the culture that she's critiquing,
[8:14]which is how I feel.
[8:15]Like it's almost an insider outsider dynamic.
[8:17]Interesting.
[8:18]Oh, I like that a lot.
[8:19]That's really cool.
[8:20]Well, speaking of other writers you admire and, you know, the writing world itself,
[8:25]like how did you even become a writer?
[8:28]So I always wanted to tell stories, but I actually, when I was much younger, I wanted
[8:34]to be an actress.
[8:36]And that's something that there is a lot of crossover there, interestingly.
[8:40]Joan Diddyam's talked about that, about how it's like a, it's inhabiting a character,
[8:44]right?
[8:45]Like you, you want to sing into a character.
[8:47]So I then that shifted when I was in high school, I grew up in Connecticut, and I live
[8:52]there now.
[8:53]I live about 20 minutes from where I grow up.
[8:56]And which, that's a whole other podcast, I live like a couple blocks from where I grew
[9:01]up.
[9:02]So, you know, I, yeah, I can talk about that too.
[9:05]And I can't get her something or something really special about it, but there's also
[9:09]I had resistance to it as well.
[9:11]But I think from a, you know, a storytelling perspective, you're like, oh, it's all, it
[9:15]all comes back, it all comes back to where you started.
[9:17]But anyways, I always wanted to tell stories.
[9:21]And I thought, actress, then I thought I wanted to do journalism, and I started doing
[9:25]nonfiction writing, and I worked in media for years.
[9:28]So I worked in television production at Katie Kirk's talk show, and then I worked at the
[9:32]skim for years.
[9:34]And when I was working at the skim, writing fiction was always in the back of my head.
[9:39]It was always, and I wanted to do, but it seemed really improbable, it seemed really difficult
[9:43]to pull off.
[9:44]And when I was at the skim, I worked on a nonfiction book for them called How to Skynear
[9:49]Life.
[9:50]And that sort of gave me the confidence to know that I could get to the end of something.
[9:53]And so while I was actually working on that book, I started writing fiction, and I went
[9:59]to NYU's MF.
[10:00]a program. And I know you've talked about how ghostwriting helped you get the confidence
[10:04]to write a book. And I feel very much the same way.
[10:06]Oh, thank you for knowing anything about me. But yes, I felt the same way. And
[10:11]that was really interesting to do, you know, because again, it's writing as someone's voice.
[10:15]It's just an interesting exercise and, um, you know, figuring out and organizing and,
[10:20]you know, I think that's really fun. Like I could do that. Yeah. And writing in someone's voice
[10:23]is what writing a character is as well, right? Exactly.
[10:27]this book, social engagement is first person, very voicey. So I wasn't happening a character.
[10:32]It wasn't the skin's voice, but it was a voice. Yeah.
[10:36]And social engagement talks a lot about, obviously, social media and the capturing life and how
[10:42]we interpret what we capture and the pros and cons of all that. So what's your general take on
[10:48]social media in general? I know it was a big question, but yeah, you must have thought a lot about
[10:52]it to write the book and even in all of your interviews and all of that. So go from there.
[10:56]Yes, I social media is both fascinating and upsetting to me. There's something sometimes I
[11:05]feel like I've heard it be compared to a slot machine or constantly trying to look for that dopamine
[11:10]hit when you're on it. Of course, but there's also sort of a darker impulse that you're looking for
[11:15]something that's going to make you log off and put the phone away. Like you're looking for that post.
[11:19]It's going to trigger you or make you upset. But in general, I find that it's often a mirror for
[11:24]how I'm doing myself. But when I'm doing well mentally, I'm much better on social media and I'm
[11:30]much more willing to have fun with it and contribute. And I'm not upset by things I see. I think
[11:35]what I really wanted to explore in the book though is how social media and our phones in general
[11:41]are a reflection of our past and how we have our entire archive, our entire history in our pockets.
[11:48]And that can be both liberating because you don't have to remember everything, but it can also
[11:55]drag you back into that past. And that's what I want to talk about with Callie.
[12:00]Well, I have to say I, the timing of life and development of things and all of that,
[12:06]like social media for me came after I had already made all these, I'd gotten to the final stage,
[12:12]I mean, knuckle it of like, marriage. Like now I share all the time. If I were going through something big,
[12:18]like a divorce or I don't know, something hard or a loss or whatever and dating even, I'm like,
[12:24]thank God. Thank God. Yeah. Oh my God. Do you keep your ex up there? Do you take him down? Like,
[12:30]well, and then it's also not really up to you. Yes, the Instagram is up to you and you can curate that.
[12:35]But the camera will, I get fed pictures from five years ago all the time on my camera roll app.
[12:41]Yes, on iPhone. Oh, and that's not, I mean, there is actually a setting that I found recently that
[12:46]you can say, I don't want to see this person anymore. Oh, no way. But yeah, I agree. I came so when
[12:52]social media really blew up in my life, right after I graduated college is when Instagram started
[12:58]becoming a thing. So I did miss out, which I'm grateful for on like being in high school on college
[13:04]and having that constant sort of comparison trap. But I still feel like most of my 20s, I was,
[13:11]you know, seeing my life reflected back at me and seeing my past kind of be dredged up constantly
[13:17]out the phone. It's true. It's like you can't get away. Yeah. And after this, you're going to have
[13:21]to tell me how to do that because my kids have somehow changed my home screen of my phone
[13:25]to like have a new random picture pop up every time I pick it up. And I said, yeah, I don't know.
[13:31]It's not even pictures they picked. It's just like it's I'm on some sort of shuffle. I mean,
[13:35]look at this picture of it's like I haven't seen this picture. Is that one of your kids?
[13:40]It was one of my kids in a picture. I don't even remember from like 100 years ago that just popped
[13:45]up out of nowhere. That's like the old iPods. It's like an iPod shuffle that you don't have a
[13:50]yet. So I think that's kind of fun though, but maybe it's a little jarring or what's fine when
[13:55]the kids pop up, but not when other people pop up or like help me that you forgot you took or like
[14:01]just, you know, people from the past who are suddenly like my screensaver. I'm like, you guys
[14:08]it's not like it's anyway, whatever. So I know I met you through Deborah Royce at her event for
[14:16]refrode in Connecticut and all that. How how did you hook up with her? And have you worked with
[14:21]other sort of mentors in the writing space who have been influential in your journey. So I met her
[14:29]at the ocean house, which is where I am doing an event there the summer, which I'm so excited for.
[14:34]So I, my friend, Carola Lovering did an event there and Deborah interviewed her and we
[14:40]had dinner drinks afterwards and found out we lived very close to each other. So I've seen her
[14:46]I found you, did you set it in Watch Hill? Yes, yes, exactly. But in Watch Hill, partially,
[14:52]I can't believe I didn't say that, but yes, so that event's going to be so special because the book
[14:56]opens in Watch Hill. And yeah, I find that I found that writing is the thing that I missed the most
[15:06]with focusing on writing is having coworkers and having that sort of social outlet. And you lucky
[15:14]enough get both with the books and your writing. But I find that I missed that and I found that my
[15:19]author friends and authors that I've met, whether they're mentors, people who have been in the
[15:23]business for a long time or other authors were just starting out have been a huge lifeline for me.
[15:28]It's no one understands what you're going through like someone else who is writing books.
[15:33]And that's been really nice. And while they're not my official coworkers, I do make a real effort
[15:38]whether through social media or just through, you know, meeting one author and then they introduce
[15:43]to another and going to as many book events as I can and just, you know, meeting people to
[15:49]give me that social outlet because it's an introverted business writing and I have an actor
[15:55]by nature. So I need that. Yeah, interesting. We actually have a book coming out next year,
[16:00]next April called the wedding issue from city books. So maybe I want to give you it to you to read
[16:05]or something. Maybe you could, I don't know, I don't mean to ask you a favor, but I would love that.
[16:10]I would love to read a event together or blur. I don't know something. I think you guys would
[16:15]get along anyway just to me. I love not what is it about like one woman's wedding or multiple
[16:19]weddings. It's actually about the wedding issue of a magazine and a contest for who will get the
[16:25]cover. Love that. But of course, it involves weddings. Love that. I love books. You're set at magazines,
[16:30]like devil words, proud of the classic. Yes. And then I'm reading home bodies right now by
[16:34]Tempe Dunton. Yes. Yes. Really great. I just, I love the media magazine space for fiction.
[16:41]It's really fun. Yeah. It's true. I know I was actually saying in our marketing meeting, I was like,
[16:46]could we get like a reunion tour here going on like all of the past executives used to work
[16:51]in magazines who are like really cool enough to waste, you know, like where to go. That's so true.
[16:57]Oh my gosh. Well, I know. I mean, Tina Brown is now like she's a huge force of nature,
[17:03]but I listened to her narrate the palace papers. Yeah. Well, I was on a trip in London,
[17:08]and that is highly recommend if you need an audio book. It's the best. Did you record the
[17:13]audio book for this or did you have a narrator for social? I had a narrator, which I was torn on
[17:18]like, you know, throwing my hat in the ring for that, but ultimately I decided I think it makes a lot
[17:21]of sense if it's a memoir to author read it, but I can't even listen to my own voice on a voicemail
[17:26]without judging. I'm like, I don't think I don't think I could read it entire book, let alone. I'm sure
[17:32]I'd find typos and get upset. So I didn't want to change. You know, we're never fully
[17:38]finished with our books. So we just need to let them go. That's true. That's true.
[17:42]Kind of like our kids. How has being a mom changed like your view of writing or the world or
[17:48]how are you even like finding the time you need and dealing with all that? Yeah, I think it's been
[17:54]so I sort of I think of them in tandem so much because I sold the book right after I found
[18:02]out I was pregnant. It was about a week after. So I kind of, you know, have really been on this
[18:07]and, you know, bookbaby metaphors are all over the place in publishing. They're ubiquitous,
[18:11]but I do find and I was nervous about going on, you know, launching this book with a five-month-old,
[18:16]but I found that it sort of takes the pressure off of both endeavors, if that makes sense. So
[18:22]I do find that when I get really stressed out or in my head about something related to the book,
[18:27]I can look at this giggling baby and she doesn't work. And I wrote a book, you know, she has no idea.
[18:32]And it's nice to sort of, you know, switch back and forth in those roles and have them remove the
[18:38]pressure from both. When I was ghostwriting actually might that book your perfect fit forever ago,
[18:43]I had to finish it with those authors. By the time I gave birth, I was pregnant and I
[18:48]beddressed the whole time. I was writing it. So I'm like, we have to finish. Like, there's
[18:52]that I handed it and it had the, and that was now they're turning 16. It's so crazy.
[18:56]Oh, but that's so nice to have that sort of deadline in mind. I do think for the next book,
[19:02]I'm like, okay, I want to finish your draft before I try to have another baby. Like, that's in my
[19:07]hat. And that, you know, you make plans and the universe laughs. Right, right.
[19:11]No, I not work out that way, but I do think it's nice when you're in the trenches in these years,
[19:17]babies do sort of provide a natural nine month deadline. Yes. Yes. Tell me about your next book.
[19:22]What are you thinking? Yeah. So I am working on something that I'm really excited about. It's very
[19:27]early days, but it's different. It's sort of, I guess what I'll say about it is it's the characters
[19:32]from social engagement. It's as if you put them in their late 30s, early 40s and their dealing with
[19:38]children and that messiness and it's multi POV. Kind of like, there's a bit of big little lies
[19:45]energy. I don't know, but it's set in Fairfield County. So yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with it,
[19:51]but I haven't been able to sink in as much as I've wanted to recently, but I got a good, you know,
[19:57]the good first third of it done before I had the baby.
[20:00]so I'm hoping that momentum will come back after a month.
[20:03]That's awesome.
[20:06]And how did you, did you finish your blank?
[20:09]Oh, my gosh, you're so good.
[20:10]In fact, I have to finish the last edits by tomorrow.
[20:15]Oh my gosh, well, thank you for talking to me.
[20:17]No, no, it's fine.
[20:18]I think they're really minor.
[20:19]They're like totally minor,
[20:20]but then it goes to copy edits next week.
[20:22]So yeah, it's gonna be that March.
[20:24]You know, I can't believe it.
[20:25]I'm like, oh gosh, it's coming out in March.
[20:27]Wow.
[20:28]Can we add March?
[20:29]Isn't it interesting to publishing timelines
[20:31]when I tell people who aren't in this industry?
[20:33]Like after I sold the book,
[20:34]I'm like, oh, it's coming out in a year.
[20:36]People are like, that's so far away.
[20:38]And I'm like, no, for publishing,
[20:39]that's actually very fast.
[20:40]It's true.
[20:41]Yeah.
[20:42]I know all of a sudden, I'm like, March, gosh,
[20:44]go like get on this, you know?
[20:45]I've already missed some things.
[20:46]You know, I can't wait to read it.
[20:49]It sounds so cool.
[20:50]You have to add the reverb of the premise.
[20:52]It's just like, oh, so good.
[20:54]Thank you.
[20:55]I mean, as my mother says, it's not winning
[20:58]any awards or anything.
[20:59]But it's very entertaining.
[21:01]Partner family members just there
[21:03]to like put us in our place all the way.
[21:05]No, she's like, but it's, you know, it's fun.
[21:08]Like, okay.
[21:09]Thank you very much.
[21:11]What does exactly what I want to read right now?
[21:13]That's, that's all I want to read is fun books.
[21:15]Yeah.
[21:16]I mean, you need a mix.
[21:17]Everybody needs a mix?
[21:19]Yes, for sure.
[21:20]We can't all right.
[21:21]You know, national book award winning.
[21:23]You know, literary masterpieces
[21:25]are I certainly can't.
[21:26]So no, we need her.
[21:27]I'm just, I'm just happy to be writing
[21:29]and to be entertaining as well.
[21:30]Yeah.
[21:31]But people want to be entertained.
[21:33]Yes.
[21:34]Like us.
[21:35]So what are you reading that's entertained lately?
[21:37]So I just finished reading,
[21:39]marrying the catch-ups by Jennifer Close.
[21:41]Oh, yeah, I am.
[21:42]Yeah, I'm doing an event with her in DC.
[21:44]And I had read Girls in White Dress as well.
[21:46]I was writing this book.
[21:48]So I was so excited that she blurged my book.
[21:50]And we're doing an event together.
[21:51]But this book marrying the catch-ups is so much fun.
[21:54]And it's like a real family saga
[21:57]that's like, there's just so much to sink your teeth into
[21:59]with all these dueling family members
[22:02]and a lot about the 2016 election,
[22:04]which is, you know, we also have PTSD, I think.
[22:07]But it plays with that in a really smart, fun way.
[22:10]And what else am I reading?
[22:11]Oh, home bodies, which I mentioned.
[22:14]And yeah, I always have,
[22:17]I don't know, do you read on an E-read?
[22:18]Do you read on a Kendall or all physical?
[22:20]Oh, physical.
[22:21]I do probably 70% physical.
[22:25]And then I got a Kendall for breastfeeding,
[22:29]which I just finished breastfeeding.
[22:30]But when I was breastfeeding, I was,
[22:32]because you can't really turn a book.
[22:34]You can't turn the pages that easily.
[22:36]I would prop, I would prop a book up on like the pump
[22:40]in the middle of the night or something.
[22:42]Cause I would hold my gosh.
[22:44]So I would like hold and prop,
[22:46]I don't even want to talk about it.
[22:47]It's like a nightmare even to think about
[22:49]for my younger kids at least.
[22:50]That's what I, you know, like a headlamp on or something.
[22:54]I had like a little station in the bathroom.
[22:56]So I didn't like wake my head,
[22:57]anyway, ridiculous.
[22:58]That's a little flutter.
[22:59]Yeah, but I should have had that.
[23:01]Yes, but as, I mean, I think that there's so much,
[23:04]I always, my stack of books just keeps growing.
[23:06]I can't imagine like how many books you are drowning in.
[23:09]It's the best, right?
[23:11]It's why we do this.
[23:12]Yeah, it's amazing.
[23:14]Okay, advice for aspiring authors.
[23:16]So I think my biggest piece of advice would be
[23:19]to mind the gap.
[23:20]And what I mean by that is the gap between your taste
[23:23]and your abilities when you start out.
[23:25]And I, our glass has talked about this a lot.
[23:27]And I find, I've always found it fascinating
[23:30]because I think that the reason we get into writing
[23:32]is because most, for most people at least,
[23:34]you love reading and you probably have good taste
[23:37]and preferences if you love reading.
[23:39]And I think there can be a disconnect
[23:41]when you're reading so many amazing books.
[23:44]And you don't feel like you can produce that same caliber of work.
[23:48]But that's what it is to start something.
[23:50]That's what it's to begin.
[23:51]So the more you practice, the better you'll get.
[23:55]And that love of reading will make you a better writer,
[23:59]ultimately.
[24:00]That's good advice.
[24:01]On your tour, what events are coming up
[24:04]that you're really excited about?
[24:04]Like what should people know about?
[24:05]I actually, I don't know when this is coming out,
[24:07]but what are you excited about in general?
[24:09]And I know you're doing Jennifer Ketchup, what else?
[24:12]Yes, yes.
[24:13]So I'm doing one in old Grand Action Athena books
[24:17]that's the launch name of Athena books.
[24:19]It's, I love that book star so much.
[24:21]And we're doing a pre-order camp,
[24:22]let's sign pre-order campaign.
[24:23]And I'm just very excited about doing things with them.
[24:26]And then I'm doing one at powerhouse in Dumbo,
[24:29]the next night in the city.
[24:31]And then I have sort of a smattering events
[24:33]through June and July, smattering other events.
[24:35]I'm doing DC Dallas, Watch Hills one that we talked about
[24:40]that I'm so excited for our in July.
[24:42]And I'm doing one in Atlanta at Lizzie Towels,
[24:45]my friend founded that company.
[24:47]And so we're doing a sort of beach towel,
[24:50]beach read collaboration.
[24:52]That's really fun.
[24:53]Yeah, so, and I also love working with book club.
[24:57]So if anyone listening has a book club
[24:59]and they wanna pick social engagement,
[25:00]I'd love to zoom in or talk to breeders.
[25:04]Very smart.
[25:05]Love it.
[25:06]Congratulations.
[25:07]I'm really excited for you.
[25:08]And I'll be following along.
[25:10]Thank you so much.
[25:11]And have a great rest of the summer.
[25:14]And I hope to run into you soon.
[25:15]You too. You too.
[25:16]Okay. Bye.
[25:19]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[25:21]Don't have time to read books.
[25:22]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:24]at Zibi Owens and at Moms.
[25:26]Don't have time to read books.
[25:27]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[25:30]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:32]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[25:37]for the Sound Editing.
[25:38]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:40]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.