Alli Frank and Asha Youmans, THE BETTER HALF
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction
[0:20]and memoir.
[0:21]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag, where we have lots of wonderful essays and
[0:30]lifestyle features.
[0:31]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes, it's a B-Classist.com.
[0:36]And I recently opened a book store in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue
[0:43]at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018.
[0:54]And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Allie, you man, and Asha Frank are co-authors of the Better Half, a novel.
[1:07]This episode has been guest-hosted by Julie Chavez, author of the upcoming Zippy Books
[1:13]title, Everyone But Myself, and host of the podcast Ask a Librarian.
[1:17]Allie and Asha have already been on this podcast once, and I was so happy to interview them
[1:21]the first time.
[1:22]I also just did a Zippy retreat with Allie Frank at the Shoe Suki Banhouse in Watermelon.
[1:28]We had a really great time.
[1:30]Allie and Asha found literary still mates at each other after working together as teacher
[1:34]and school administrator in Seattle, Washington.
[1:37]They discovered a shared mission as educators and as authors to use humor, joy, and compassion
[1:42]to write stories that encourage candid conversations about issues such as race, religion,
[1:46]culture, class, privilege, parenting, and education.
[1:50]Their debut novel, Tiny and Perfections, tackled desperate parents and their ill-fated
[1:54]misbeaviors with razor-sharp wit, followed by Never meant to meet you, which deftly
[1:59]mind the often comedic and under-explored common ground between black and Jewish experiences
[2:04]in America.
[2:05]Their third collaboration, The Better Half, captivated Mindy Kayling, and Mindy's book studio.
[2:11]Her imprint with Amazon Publishing, published this book.
[2:14]Allie and Asha bring their very different cultural backgrounds and perspectives together
[2:17]to write in one seamless cohesive voice, United in their belief that humor and fiction
[2:22]can inspire empathy and learning, and that exposure to diverse experiences can only enrich
[2:27]one's life.
[2:28]Hello, ladies.
[2:29]Welcome to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[2:30]I'm so glad you're here today.
[2:33]Thanks for having us.
[2:34]We're happy, too.
[2:35]Always.
[2:36]And I love that you, too, Asha and Allie are in the same room, which is especially fun.
[2:41]Well, we like to escape our house.
[2:44]Perfect.
[2:45]I'm like, I need a hug.
[2:48]Yeah.
[2:49]So it wasn't a hard sell.
[2:51]No.
[2:52]I'm out.
[2:53]Bye, everybody.
[2:54]Yeah.
[2:55]He's out.
[2:56]So excited.
[2:57]We'll see you today so we can talk about your book The Better Half, which I finished
[3:01]last night, really enjoyed it.
[3:04]It's such a good book.
[3:05]So well done.
[3:06]I have not read your other two, but I will definitely be going back.
[3:09]This one's fantastic.
[3:10]Thank you.
[3:11]Thanks.
[3:12]We love it.
[3:13]Oh, you did such a great job.
[3:15]Although I do have to start with the one premise about a pregnancy happening a little
[3:20]later in your life.
[3:24]And that is the sort of thing I have nightmares about sometimes.
[3:27]Yes.
[3:28]Join the club.
[3:30]And we can't do it anymore, but we still are terrified.
[3:35]I am nearing the point where that will not be happening for me anymore.
[3:40]And even still, I think, yeah, I get nervous, too, that everything's jumping ship down
[3:44]there and people are getting, or, you know, eggs more specifically are getting desperate.
[3:48]And I'm like, don't do anything crazy.
[3:50]We have teenagers.
[3:51]We can't do this.
[3:52]Oh, yeah.
[3:53]You just wait.
[3:54]I have adult children now.
[3:56]And so it'll go from worrying about yourself to them.
[4:00]Oh, my gosh.
[4:01]One of them could procreate any moment.
[4:04]That.
[4:05]Oh, my yep.
[4:06]Yep.
[4:07]Oh, gosh.
[4:08]There's nothing worrying about there.
[4:09]I should think so much for ushering me into my next nightmare.
[4:12]This is fantastic.
[4:14]I'm so lucky.
[4:15]Wow.
[4:16]No, but tell me a little bit, will you give me the pitch, one of you give me the pitch
[4:20]on what is this book about?
[4:23]Well, so the pitches we would say there are two main themes.
[4:26]Okay.
[4:27]And let me preface those themes by saying that we have this really uncanny ability that
[4:34]we write about something.
[4:37]And then that thing happens in the world.
[4:39]So the better half we actually wrote a while ago and then wrote our second book and
[4:45]we just flop when they were coming out.
[4:47]But this question for us about a woman who has reached her professional pinnacle and then
[4:57]this very female thing happens to her, a late in life pregnancy.
[5:03]And she has all the abilities, the money, the house, the loving family to have the child.
[5:11]But it's still her choice.
[5:14]And that was really what we were grappling with.
[5:18]She has the maturity.
[5:19]She has the money.
[5:20]She's been a good parent already.
[5:22]But it's still a choice.
[5:25]And we were writing that before the really big discussion about Roe v Wade was happening.
[5:32]And it was fascinating then editing that book because as Roe v Wade was happening,
[5:39]there wasn't the discussion about the women of privilege who can have the kids.
[5:46]But still may not want to.
[5:48]Or they've already done it or they're at a different place in their life.
[5:52]So we're excited for this book to come out because it is a different lens and a different
[5:58]type of person who should still have the opportunity to make that choice about her body
[6:04]and her future.
[6:06]So it's kind of crazy that it's now happened in ways we never imagined would go down
[6:13]when this book came out.
[6:14]So that was our first theme.
[6:16]And then our second theme that we were super interested in exploring was the saying of
[6:22]not all skin folk or kin folk.
[6:27]And what does that look like?
[6:29]How does that play out?
[6:30]And you want to talk more about that one?
[6:33]Yeah.
[6:34]It's something that I think that we have an opportunity to discuss when we're sharing
[6:38]with audiences as we're talking about books and visiting bookstores, visiting schools.
[6:45]That my opinion is not, I'm not the monolith of the black culture and alley is not the
[6:50]monolith of the Jewish culture.
[6:52]Right.
[6:53]On personal perspectives that may be influenced by where we come from by our makeup, by
[7:00]our background, but we don't speak for everyone.
[7:04]And I don't agree with every black person, I know, I don't know every black person,
[7:09]I know there's one movie, I want everybody to know that too.
[7:13]But you might find differences of opinions across geographical lines.
[7:18]There are southern blacks that absolutely, I don't know their story.
[7:24]They don't know the story of a black person growing in the Pacific Northwest.
[7:28]So we had a good time exploring that.
[7:32]You sort of, I think a lot of people would assume, wow, these are two black, there's
[7:35]two black characters.
[7:36]They're going to be on the same side now.
[7:37]They're going to be each other's ally.
[7:40]And we have explored that in our other books that it's important to have that sort of ally
[7:44]with you.
[7:45]But in this book, we take it to parture from that point of view and look at what the ramifications
[7:50]are of being in conflict with someone who you expect to have your back.
[7:55]And that allyship should be a choice, not just because it's the only other person that
[8:00]might look like you in the room, yes.
[8:04]So those are really the two themes that we want to explore, which again, not light topics.
[8:10]But the mission of our writing is to be able to explore challenging topics of race and religion
[8:16]and privilege and parenting and education, but all through a lens of humor and joy and
[8:23]and comedy because you can learn and expand and laugh at the same time.
[8:28]It doesn't always have to beat you down to feel like you have learned or explored something.
[8:36]So we have that mission that all our books will always, the stories might change, the
[8:40]characters will change, but the mission to use comedy and humor to look into the challenging
[8:47]parts of life will always be how we write.
[8:50]Well, yeah, I love that lens that you bring to it with just listening to you talk about
[8:57]that.
[8:58]That makes a lot of sense to me where it is this, you know, joy can be a conduit to growth
[9:02]just as pain can.
[9:04]And so how do we kind of take that road, especially when we're choosing it, right?
[9:08]And so I really like that.
[9:11]I also like listening to you talk about characters you would expect maybe to ally or maybe
[9:17]assumptions, I should say.
[9:18]So assumptions, and I even had certain assumptions about some of the characters early
[9:22]on that then were turned over for me by the end, which I really appreciate for myself
[9:29]because it's so funny when that happens because it kind of unearths a bias or a thought
[9:35]that I didn't even realize I had.
[9:37]So I really, you did a very masterful job with, especially, I don't want to give too
[9:42]much away.
[9:43]I'm always really careful, but one of the characters, especially I thought, oh, I did not
[9:47]see that coming in a good way.
[9:50]So it's a reminder too that people are more than whatever our first impression of them
[9:56]is most of the time.
[9:58]There are some dirt bags out there and you know.
[10:00]People just make us feel good because we're like, hey, I knew it.
[10:05]And also we always talk about how stereotypes do exist for a reason.
[10:11]I mean, there are commonalities and cultures and religions and race and all those things.
[10:16]Because sometimes as writers or creators, you get nailed for like you're being too stereotypical.
[10:22]But I think there's this balance of you can have stereotypes and still be surprised by those stereotypes.
[10:28]Yes, both can happen at the same time.
[10:32]I mean, as you read, we don't shy away necessarily from stereotypes, but it's always with a depth of then what's unique to that individual.
[10:42]Yes, it does feel very true.
[10:44]You're using the stereotypes as a jumping off point, but it's not the whole of your character.
[10:49]Yeah, I love that.
[10:51]So now I know I mentioned before we started recording that we were going to play a little game.
[10:56]But before we do that, I would like to hear about the tall poppy writers because I don't know anything about them.
[11:04]But I feel like it seems like a really friendly, non-dangerous cult that I would like to be part of.
[11:11]So I'm just, you know, if you can just give me some insight as to what it's like to be in that group.
[11:17]I would say a very smiley cult.
[11:21]Okay, good, very friendly.
[11:25]I love it from the country.
[11:27]Yes.
[11:28]Yeah, we are both members of the tall poppy writers and founded by Anne Garvin.
[11:35]Fantastic author herself and one of the driving forces in in literature and book writing and mentoring other people to write books and best practices to do so.
[11:48]Um, but it is populated by about 35 women with just extreme talent.
[11:55]You know, Denny S. Bryce and Siddiqua Johnson.
[11:59]Um, I mean, Zippy Owens is a deal.
[12:02]I know her.
[12:03]Yeah.
[12:04]You're weird.
[12:06]Yes.
[12:07]Danielle Girard, like the list goes on and on and on.
[12:11]Um, but it's a group of women committed to supporting each other in our work as writers.
[12:19]Um, by lifting each other up when we have new work that comes out, celebrating each other.
[12:26]We achieve accomplishments.
[12:29]And also reaching back, there was just a contest that just closed to welcome new writers called the perfect pitch.
[12:37]And it was to, um, you know, as a writer, you get people saying, well, you're a writer.
[12:42]I have this book idea.
[12:43]Oh, yeah.
[12:44]Could you look at it for me?
[12:46]And those requests can get a little bit overwhelming.
[12:49]And the tall poppies are a very generous group.
[12:53]So Anne and staff and some of the writers came up with this idea to let's open it up.
[12:59]Let's see if we can get some great agents out there, some great content creators,
[13:06]managers, anybody we can get to sort of run this contest and have people give us their best pitch sentence for their books and turn that into advice and maybe turn that into someone who's exploring their opportunity as a writer.
[13:21]So it's pretty exciting.
[13:22]Yeah.
[13:23]The tall poppies grew out of this shift in publishing of how do you do PR for a book?
[13:31]Like it's weird, right?
[13:33]Is it podcasts?
[13:35]There aren't as many much in person stuff.
[13:38]There's so much in social media, but if people aren't drawn to you on social media, then you're dead in the water.
[13:44]So it really came about as a way to support each other in the launches of your books, but having an element of comfort that the books you're pitching maybe we haven't had time to read them.
[13:59]Yes.
[14:00]The authors have all been vetted through the tall poppy process of being invited.
[14:04]You know that you're putting out on your own personal social media.
[14:08]Like a great writer, you know, a strong story that will hit somebody's heart and mind.
[14:14]So that's how it sort of grew or the purpose white grew.
[14:19]And then it's flourished from there, blossomed from there.
[14:23]Wow.
[14:24]Way to bring it home.
[14:25]You should be writing.
[14:26]You should be writing.
[14:27]You should be a writer.
[14:28]That was tidy.
[14:29]Way to go.
[14:30]Now, I do want to ask too.
[14:33]And I should know the answer to this.
[14:35]So forgive me.
[14:36]Is this your first one with Mindy's book studio?
[14:38]It is.
[14:39]Okay.
[14:40]I was thinking it was because her imprint is fairly new.
[14:42]Was that an exciting thing for you?
[14:45]So exciting.
[14:46]That seems like a dumb question.
[14:49]But I just, I adore her and I love the way she shows up in the world.
[14:52]And what a cool out of people to be kind of aligned with in this.
[14:56]It feels like your book obviously is perfect for her.
[14:59]But I just, it seems like that would be an exciting place for your book to land.
[15:05]For sure.
[15:06]She's an author, producer, director, actor, comedian.
[15:10]I don't know what she has in time.
[15:13]Mm-hmm.
[15:14]So to be chosen by someone who has such a sharp eye in so many industries.
[15:21]It feels just very empowering and legitimizing to have her stamp on her book.
[15:28]And it's been fun to her team has been very supportive and excited along with us to have this book come out.
[15:36]That's so joyful.
[15:37]It's always nice when things can be feel multiplied, right?
[15:40]Because publishing such a hard business that certain terms, because you can feel very exposed, I think, as the creator in a sort of a strange way.
[15:49]So having that back up is pretty great.
[15:51]It's not, I will also say though you know it.
[15:54]If you know when you're well aligned.
[15:57]So when she announced her book studio.
[16:02]Ash and I knew who we were and what we were writing.
[16:07]Mm-hmm.
[16:08]It was exactly what she was trying to bring out into the world.
[16:12]So we were thrilled when she chose us.
[16:16]However, we also knew that our story was going to elevate her brand.
[16:23]I mean, it really, it didn't, to me it didn't feel like aren't we so lucky, aren't we so lucky?
[16:27]Oh sure.
[16:28]Yeah.
[16:29]Exactly what she was looking for.
[16:31]Well, and in the right publishing relationship, that's how it should be, right?
[16:36]In terms of the creator bringing something and the publisher bringing their resources to kind of pull that into the world.
[16:44]But yeah, it's a team, a team effort.
[16:46]They can't do it without you because you're writing it.
[16:48]Yeah.
[16:49]Right.
[16:50]You did.
[16:51]Yeah.
[16:52]Yeah.
[16:53]I you did.
[16:54]We did.
[16:55]Okay.
[16:56]You have now answered my questions about the cult and the other new club that you're
[17:00]from.
[17:01]And maybe Kaling Studio.
[17:02]And you now have earned your ticket to play the game I made up, which is, I mean, it's sort of like a cross between the newlywed game and Esther Perell's.
[17:13]Where should we begin?
[17:14]I almost blanked on the name of the game.
[17:16]But the game is really perfect.
[17:18]Okay.
[17:19]So let's start with an individual question.
[17:20]So each of you answer for yourselves.
[17:23]Okay.
[17:24]Let's start here.
[17:25]The last time I got unreasonably upset.
[17:28]Oh, I know mine.
[17:29]Okay.
[17:30]You tell me.
[17:31]Oh, yes.
[17:32]I had to think of mine too.
[17:33]I love this one.
[17:34]Okay.
[17:35]Go.
[17:36]I would like to say mine was not unreasonable.
[17:38]Can I prep us?
[17:39]Yeah.
[17:40]That's what mine reads.
[17:41]Mine says though.
[17:42]Yeah.
[17:43]So I lost my AirPods or my earbuds.
[17:50]Sorry.
[17:51]And we went back to every place they could possibly be.
[17:56]I asked my teenage daughters.
[17:58]My husband has anyone seen them for like two days.
[18:01]I was wracking my brain because I do not lose things.
[18:04]I've got other Achilles heels.
[18:06]Absolutely.
[18:07]But I really don't lose things.
[18:09]So my ninth grade daughter was at La Crosse practice.
[18:14]And I thought myself such a ding dong.
[18:17]Why didn't I not just do find my earbuds?
[18:20]So I turned that on.
[18:22]And it shows up something I had dressed.
[18:24]I'm like, how, how's that possible?
[18:26]I see how with the house.
[18:28]So then I put on the noise so it'll ding.
[18:31]Yes.
[18:32]Ding ding ding.
[18:33]And I'm following it and following it and following it.
[18:35]All of it right to the very bottom of my daughter's disgusting lunch bag.
[18:43]Oh, there were my earbuds.
[18:47]Yeah.
[18:48]With her orange peels.
[18:50]We're having carrot talk and her yogurt cup.
[18:56]And that was after she told me, I don't know where they are.
[19:00]So when she got home from La Crosse because I'm a writer and a story and tell her,
[19:06]I invited her into my room for story time.
[19:09]And I retraced the story of my steps finding my earbuds
[19:16]in her lunch bag.
[19:18]And I was pissed.
[19:21]Okay.
[19:22]I'm going to take back what I said earlier because that does.
[19:25]I would be reasonably upset about that too.
[19:29]Yes.
[19:30]Okay.
[19:31]Mine isn't much shorter.
[19:32]Last time I was unreasonably upset was just someone just just texted me when I was busy.
[19:38]Just like that.
[19:39]Oh, who is daring to text me right now?
[19:42]That's unreasonable.
[19:43]That was unreasonable.
[19:44]You could have been upset about the AirPods, but I get upset about little teeny, teeny things.
[19:50]Yes.
[19:51]See, I think I'm more like you.
[19:53]Or where I like to save my rage for just random things that don't deserve it.
[19:57]Why do I have a phone if I don't want somebody to text me?
[20:00]Why don't I put it on silent?
[20:02]How were they to know what I was doing in my home?
[20:04]But no, how dare you interrupt me?
[20:06]I'm here for that.
[20:07]It feels, yeah, I like that.
[20:09]Yeah, what do you see that?
[20:10]Because you never get a bite, I don't.
[20:12]But I mean, I do get on a reasonably angry.
[20:16]Hey, good to know about yourself.
[20:18]I love that.
[20:19]Okay, so now this is, I wanna hear from each of you.
[20:24]So here's the question, few people know I could talk
[20:27]for hours about what?
[20:30]So what could Ali talk for hours about OSHA?
[20:35]Know what I'm saying about you?
[20:36]Oh my gosh, Ali can talk for hours about
[20:42]pretty much something she's researched.
[20:45]I mean, the term going down a rabbit hole
[20:49]is written for Ali.
[20:53]And I think she sprouts some actual bunny tails
[20:56]that happens.
[20:58]But yes, I hear quite a few long epic stories
[21:03]about the research that she's,
[21:05]but it could just be about, you know,
[21:08]a star that she, a person who's starring in a new
[21:11]show that she watched.
[21:12]It could be very important information,
[21:16]but often it's about a star that is on a show
[21:20]that she watched.
[21:22]Yes, it's usually because I think they would be good
[21:25]in a role in one of our books.
[21:27]That's true.
[21:28]Okay.
[21:29]That's true.
[21:29]That's true.
[21:30]That's justification behind it.
[21:32]Yes, for herself.
[21:37]Be it valid or not?
[21:38]I don't know.
[21:39]What are you getting a text and being annoyed?
[21:45]Are you writing to me about if there's elbow again?
[21:50]Look at this fact I found in here like,
[21:52]no, I cannot.
[21:55]Oh, I love this.
[21:56]Yeah.
[21:57]Okay, good.
[21:58]Like three times about his like marriage.
[22:00]I've definitely had this.
[22:02]Yes.
[22:03]You can search it in your phone or pop it up.
[22:05]It'll be a whole chain.
[22:06]You can just feel yourself get all ragey just again.
[22:09]Sure fun.
[22:10]I love that.
[22:11]Okay, Ali, your turn.
[22:13]What would I have to talk for hours now?
[22:14]When Ashna says, girl, let me tell you I have to go get a drink,
[22:21]because I'm about to hear it all about her brother
[22:25]or her sister.
[22:26]Yeah, my siblings.
[22:29]Yep.
[22:29]Okay.
[22:30]More than anything, right?
[22:32]But she can go forever.
[22:35]Oh, I saw you all the details.
[22:37]Last water and I settled it.
[22:40]We were just talking about them before you came up.
[22:43]Oh, I knew there's my drink.
[22:47]Yes.
[22:48]You were like, oh, let me just go to the fridge.
[22:50]I'll click her.
[22:51]Sounds like a Pavlov's dog kind of response to her.
[22:54]She starts that fridge.
[22:55]You're like, oh, I'm sorry.
[23:00]Okay, let's do one.
[23:02]I love that.
[23:03]Let's do one for each of you for yourself.
[23:06]If you could see into the future, you would want to know what.
[23:13]I, oh, you want me to start?
[23:16]Sure, you got one.
[23:18]I this, this is not so funny or uplifting, but I have to say
[23:22]that AI terrifies me and the growth and the trajectory of it.
[23:31]And I, I wouldn't love.
[23:35]Well, I would love to be able to see in the future
[23:39]if there were an end result of that there was some regulation
[23:44]around it.
[23:45]Okay.
[23:46]So that would be the positive lens of seeing into the future,
[23:49]but I would also be terrified to see into it
[23:51]about AI if it's going to go unregulated.
[23:56]So I do spend a little too much time recently,
[24:00]sort of rubbing my hands about that.
[24:03]Less about us and more about our kids and their future.
[24:08]That's so true.
[24:09]Doesn't that feel like a side effect of having children?
[24:12]I mean, you just, you can't help but forecast out and think,
[24:16]what is their world going to look like,
[24:18]especially with the pace of change since we were young?
[24:21]But I kind of care like it's 1973.
[24:24]This is the first thing I really have to say that I have,
[24:29]I'm not an angsty person when it comes to parenting, but this one.
[24:33]So it's particularly like compelling to me because I'm like,
[24:36]whoa, this is actually making me nervous.
[24:40]So if I'm on reacting to it like, at least for me, it's something.
[24:44]So on that donor.
[24:47]No, I love that, though.
[24:48]I think that's, I mean, I love that answer.
[24:50]Thank you for answering it.
[24:52]Like it makes sense to me.
[24:53]Okay, Asha.
[24:54]I mean, that was, I mean, it was very heartfelt because I was going to say,
[24:58]I just want to know if I'm going to fit into that size eight dress that I bought.
[25:06]Am I ever going to the tags are still on?
[25:10]Oh, man, I just, it's so true.
[25:14]I see all these pictures of people getting in their wedding dresses and I'm like,
[25:18]Oh, that that's in my future.
[25:21]Come on.
[25:22]Yeah.
[25:23]No, you know.
[25:24]And if I don't, I know I'll have a lot, it's because I'll have a lot of good
[25:27]meals on the way.
[25:28]But yeah, it doesn't keep me up at night.
[25:31]But I do want to know.
[25:32]Yes, right.
[25:34]If that one pair of jeans that you have hold onto, it would be so great.
[25:39]If we could harness and regulate AI to tell you if you are going to fit into
[25:45]that dress, right?
[25:47]Like, that's what we really need.
[25:49]See, the thing about AI doesn't have any idea that that dress has so much dust on it.
[25:56]It couldn't go through your credit card.
[25:59]I probably want it first.
[26:00]Anyways, I feel like if AI can write a paper, can't be lose weight for me.
[26:07]Come on, stupid AI.
[26:09]Right.
[26:11]Yes, there it is.
[26:12]Yes, we need, we need it to be good.
[26:15]Okay, here's another one.
[26:16]Now, this is for each other.
[26:17]What is the other person particularly stubborn about?
[26:21]And this could have to do with your writing process or just in general life.
[26:25]I mean, I should get picked from a myriad.
[26:29]Wow.
[26:29]Are you a stubborn personality?
[26:32]Yeah.
[26:36]Like they have conviction.
[26:38]Okay, the convictions, we're going to put a little spin on that.
[26:42]So what thing are you particularly stubborn about that in dealing with
[26:47]her very lovely husband, very talented handsome kind.
[26:53]What are you going to say that she is right every time.
[26:58]It don't matter what it is.
[27:00]It could be a small issue.
[27:01]It could be a giant issue.
[27:03]It's true.
[27:04]Oh, yes.
[27:05]Yes, if he doesn't mind what she says, it's going to be trouble.
[27:11]And he's so patient.
[27:12]Oh, oh, yeah, I mean, it's good though.
[27:16]He loves her.
[27:17]Yeah.
[27:18]I'm like, do you do?
[27:20]I feel like I'm very compromised.
[27:22]Are you too?
[27:24]Homecoming.
[27:29]Why is that not where I thought you were going to go?
[27:32]No, I didn't hold them onto that one.
[27:34]Oh, I'm so glad you could share it with me.
[27:36]That's the kind of my best friend has a similar relationship where I swear
[27:40]if she said to her husband, like, hey, just go like lie down in traffic for a while.
[27:44]He'd be like, okay, cool.
[27:45]And every time I'm like, how, what is this happening, right?
[27:50]It just, I don't understand.
[27:53]So I'm sure it's just a testament to your husband being a lovely man and you having
[27:57]convictions.
[27:58]Well, let me say he is not that guy.
[28:00]The thing is, he's as strong as I am.
[28:03]So when he doesn't actually listen to me, then I have to go tell Asha why I'm right.
[28:07]Yeah.
[28:08]Oh, I see.
[28:09]Okay, this is good to know that side of it.
[28:12]Yeah, yes.
[28:14]Yes, so you, so you are helping her release that so she can stay married and not
[28:19]some other him with a pillow in the middle of the night.
[28:21]Yes, because she, she's not allowed to leave him.
[28:24]It's not happening.
[28:25]If she may, she don't have to leave me.
[28:28]No, I can't take her without him.
[28:29]Well, exactly.
[28:30]It's your tricycle situation right now.
[28:33]Like, yeah, quiet.
[28:34]Yeah, you can't.
[28:35]No, no, no, we can't upset the apple cart.
[28:37]I'm with him.
[28:38]Yeah, 100%.
[28:39]That's what girlfriends are for though, right?
[28:41]Because there are certain battles with my husband where I'm like, okay, so we're done,
[28:45]obviously, with I'm going to get on the phone.
[28:48]Yeah, all about you, 100%.
[28:51]I'll be in the back here talking about you.
[28:52]You don't need to wonder.
[28:54]I go.
[28:54]Yeah.
[28:55]All right.
[28:56]So now you're turn early.
[28:57]What's Asha stubborn.
[28:58]Well, so I really hope to say she's not stubborn.
[29:02]Like in the typical sense of stubborn.
[29:04]But this, so I'm going to use the word consistent because instead of stubborn,
[29:10]okay, Asha is consistently the stereotype in the best way of a middle child.
[29:19]Oh, I love it.
[29:21]Unbelievable.
[29:22]Like keeping peace, she's unbelievable at like being unflappable.
[29:28]When I'm all worked up, Asha's like steady as she goes.
[29:35]When I'm being stubborn, Asha's so good at just like letting me write it up.
[29:41]She's drinking her water at that point.
[29:43]Pushes us on her way.
[29:45]So Asha is like just unbelievably consistent at being even keel.
[29:53]My husband gives you a whole list of things I'm stubborn about.
[29:58]Well, the next interview.
[30:00]will be that. I'll interview your husband.
[30:02]Okay. And ask them these questions.
[30:04]No, I actually thought of a smoke.
[30:05]She will not give away her mac and cheese recipe.
[30:09]Does not matter who else.
[30:11]It could be Mindy killing us.
[30:12]I mean, you wouldn't give it to us.
[30:13]He's not getting it.
[30:14]Yeah.
[30:15]That's what OSHA stuff does.
[30:17]Will not give away her mac and cheese recipe.
[30:19]That is inspiring.
[30:21]I love that kind of like almost, I mean, petty,
[30:24]I mean, in a good sense, like a petty moment, right?
[30:27]Where you're like, no, that's, yeah.
[30:29]This matters more than your life.
[30:30]That actually, that word describes both of us.
[30:32]Oh, yeah, we're so petty.
[30:34]Oh, I love, I'm here for petty.
[30:37]I really do enjoy it.
[30:38]Yeah, it's necessary.
[30:41]Well, I have to say this was so much fun.
[30:46]You two are in a delight.
[30:48]I love seeing the way you talk
[30:52]and hearing a little bit about you together
[30:54]because it shows up so much in your book.
[30:57]Like your rapport and just the dialogue, all the things.
[31:02]I can totally see it in the two of you.
[31:04]And it's just so fun.
[31:06]So thank you for this time.
[31:08]Thanks for being so game to do something fun and different
[31:11]and potentially friendship altering,
[31:14]but thankfully not.
[31:15]Yay, fair at altering of my health and watching.
[31:20]Or marriage altering if Julie gets her hands on my husband
[31:23]to talk to him about me.
[31:24]That's true.
[31:25]I'm going to give him a ringy dingy
[31:26]and just ask him just a couple of questions.
[31:28]It's fine.
[31:29]You can talk to my husband.
[31:30]I'll tell you all the dumb things I do,
[31:32]but we argue about the dumbest stuff.
[31:33]So I mean, what couple doesn't though, right?
[31:36]Yeah, I can do it.
[31:37]Third.
[31:38]Yeah, it is.
[31:39]Although last night he was moving my shoes again.
[31:41]And I was like, I think we're going to die this way.
[31:43]Like, it'll just be him putting my shoes
[31:49]on the shoe rack forever.
[31:50]And then one day we die.
[31:52]The end.
[31:53]So maybe he could lift.
[31:55]It's so true, a little place for them, label.
[32:00]I do have to see since you're in pleasant and I know
[32:03]because you're doing these podcasts,
[32:05]you have a million books to read.
[32:06]But our second book never meant to meet you takes place
[32:09]in the East Bay.
[32:11]Oh, if you want a little close to home
[32:14]and it's about a black Baptist woman and a white Jewish
[32:19]neighbor who never cross their common California
[32:23]bungalow driveway.
[32:24]Oh, yeah.
[32:25]And then something happens that pushes them together.
[32:29]So it takes place right in your backyard
[32:31]and now that you've met us and know our humor.
[32:34]I think you'll read us in the book and we'll be ordering
[32:38]that today.
[32:39]And that will be another thing that I'm stubborn about
[32:41]which is I refuse to come back on book spending.
[32:43]So thank you.
[32:45]Thank you so much, ladies.
[32:48]This was a joy.
[32:49]Thank you, Julie.
[32:52]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's.
[32:54]Don't have time to read books.
[32:55]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[32:57]at zebiowens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[33:00]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[33:03]and sign up for my virtual book club
[33:04]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[33:07]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[33:09]Heck, texture sound for the sound editing.
[33:11]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[33:13]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.