Byron Lane, BIG GAY WEDDING
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30 minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
[0:12]a year for about 30 minutes.
[0:15]I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction and
[0:21]memoir.
[0:22]Our books are already out now.
[0:23]You can check it out on zippybooks.com.
[0:26]And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle
[0:31]features.
[0:32]That's at zippymag.com.
[0:33]We have classes, it's a B-Classist.com, and I recently opened a book store in LA called
[0:39]Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in San Monica.
[0:45]I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings.
[0:49]But this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018, and no matter what
[0:55]I do, this is basically my favorite thing.
[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Byron Lane is the author of Big Gay Wedding, a novel.
[1:06]Byron is also the author of A Star Is Board, hailed by the New York Times Book Review as
[1:11]wildly funny and irreverent.
[1:13]He's a playwright, screenwriter, Emmy award-winning journalist, and former assistant to actress
[1:18]Carrie Fisher.
[1:19]He's originally from New Orleans and lives in Palm Springs, California, with his husband
[1:23]best-selling author, Steven Raleigh of The Celebrants, and their rescue dogs, raindrop,
[1:29]and Shirley.
[1:30]Welcome, Byron.
[1:31]Thank you so much for coming on Moms, don't know time to read books, to just big
[1:36]gay wedding, a novel.
[1:37]I'm honored.
[1:38]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:39]I love chatting with you.
[1:40]Of course, you too.
[1:42]Before we got on, I was just raving about how beautiful this cover is with the two men holding
[1:46]hands, but you can almost can't even tell.
[1:47]It's like this big blue and white wedding season, something blue.
[1:52]It's just perfect.
[1:53]It's totally.
[1:54]Yeah, good vibes.
[1:55]You never really know what the cover will look like when you hold it for the first time.
[2:00]So happy.
[2:01]I'm so proud of it.
[2:02]Yeah.
[2:03]It's really great.
[2:04]And the book.
[2:05]So tell listeners what the book is about.
[2:07]So big gay wedding is about a conservative mom who runs a small town rescue ranch for
[2:11]misfit animals.
[2:13]And she clashes with her gay son who wants to have his wedding there on the family farm.
[2:18]That's the quick and easy.
[2:19]Okay.
[2:20]That's a good one.
[2:21]It's a little further bride.
[2:23]It's a little shits creek.
[2:25]So we've got some humor in there.
[2:26]We've got lots of heart.
[2:28]And it really like some really fun characters to explore the world with.
[2:33]There's a grandfather character named Papa who lives in a nursing home, but he is really
[2:39]progressive because at the nursing home, they let them watch TV shows like Glee.
[2:44]So he's always got like fun takes.
[2:46]So I hope folks like it.
[2:48]Of course, folks will like it.
[2:49]Tell me about all the different points of view and deciding how to structure the book.
[2:55]And first person, third person, which characters you chose for when I feel like isn't
[3:00]that a hard decision and how did you structure it?
[3:04]Really.
[3:05]I kind of just give the ball a kick and see what's working.
[3:07]And that's kind of where we landed.
[3:09]So we follow all of the characters really.
[3:11]We follow a mother, Chrissy Durang, her son, Barnett is the one who wants to get married
[3:17]on the farm.
[3:18]This partner is Ezra, who is a teacher and brings to the story some kind of, I wouldn't
[3:25]say new age, but maybe maybe a little bit of like outside of the box teaching about helping
[3:30]kids connect with their feelings and all that kind of stuff.
[3:33]And so it was really fun.
[3:34]It was so different from a star's board, which was my first novel, which was inspired
[3:38]by my time I worked for Carrie Fisher.
[3:40]So for a star's board, I was able to really kind of take reality and then paint imagination
[3:47]on top of it.
[3:48]Big gay wedding is really a lot more imagination.
[3:51]So you get this opportunity to really explore life with these characters.
[3:57]And there's some that is inspired by my real life.
[4:00]I mean, I grew up in the South.
[4:01]My family had a hard time when I came out.
[4:05]It was a whole nother coming out experience to introduce everyone to my husband, author
[4:10]Stephen Roly, wrote the Gunkel on the celebrants.
[4:14]So this story really is a mom's story, to be honest.
[4:17]I mean, the title is Big Gay Wedding.
[4:19]There's lots of big gay stuff in it, but it's really a story about a mom who's trying
[4:24]to come out in her own way as loving and supporting her gay son.
[4:29]No, it's so interesting.
[4:30]I was on Instagram earlier today.
[4:32]This is gonna sound random, but anyway, do you know Jen Hatmaker is?
[4:35]She's based in Austin.
[4:37]Anyway, she I guess had this whole evangelical following for a long time in her prior life
[4:43]and posted about her support of gay marriage and all, you know, how amazing.
[4:47]And of course, she says something like, well, what if your son came out and wanted
[4:52]a wedding to another man?
[4:53]She was like, of course, I'd be 100% behind it.
[4:55]And I guess she lost her whole business at the time and all the evangelical Christian
[5:01]following that she had, they canceled all of her, but anyway, it was a whole thing.
[5:06]But she posted about it to say, but it opened up this whole amazing community.
[5:11]You never know.
[5:12]Sometimes when it feels like things are bad, like things get better.
[5:15]So anyway, all to say, she can relate to the main character of Chrissy and all that.
[5:22]Well, and you know, I hope that this book carries a little bit of that spirit of hope
[5:27]that when things seem bad, there's always another side to it.
[5:31]And when my first book came out, I was in the middle of chemo for testicular cancer and
[5:36]of by now, but there were so many experiences during that that made me, I mean, it was sort
[5:41]of your force.
[5:42]I was forced to face like, oh, I feel like I'm going through this terrible thing.
[5:47]But look at all these beautiful things that are happening.
[5:49]So like one of them was a, an older lady.
[5:51]She was also going through chemo and she would knit all day.
[5:55]And then at one point, she came up to me and one of the things she was knitting was a hat
[5:59]for me.
[6:00]You know, I was bald and she gave me this hat to keep me warm and so there were all
[6:03]these sweet moments and got your friend in Austin.
[6:05]I'm sorry that that happened.
[6:07]I'm also so glad that she's able to see beauty that comes out of it.
[6:11]And I hope that that's, I hope I brought some of that to these characters in this book,
[6:15]too.
[6:16]They all go through their own kind of journey of acceptance and understanding.
[6:20]And at the end of the day, isn't that part of all of our lives being able to say like,
[6:24]wow, there's still sunshine?
[6:26]Yeah.
[6:27]I think in large part, that's why people read, right?
[6:30]You just want to see like, I analyze what I like to read.
[6:34]I like to read stories where something bad happens and something good happens at the
[6:37]end, right?
[6:38]Like you get through something.
[6:39]It doesn't matter what it is, but you get through the challenge, the family challenge,
[6:43]like that, all of it.
[6:45]And then you, you can go about your day and be like, okay, well, whatever I have on my
[6:48]plate, it's going to be fine because these 15 books I just read, it was, you know, there
[6:53]are skills and tools that I've learned and everyone.
[6:55]And also being seen, like just that human thing, gosh, I, I still remember this Oprah episode
[7:01]where she said, your kids just want to see light up when you're under the room.
[7:05]And, you know, I think that that's also true of adults.
[7:08]Yeah.
[7:09]I think we all like to, to feel seen and I love it when a, a book can capture that and,
[7:15]and make me feel that way.
[7:17]Totally.
[7:18]Wait, your journey with testicular cancer, how old were you when that happened?
[7:23]Oh, gosh.
[7:24]So dumb.
[7:25]Oh, yeah.
[7:26]Anything you want.
[7:27]So the first, I noticed a lump on a testicle in 2015 and the doctor was like, well, this
[7:33]isn't good.
[7:34]We should remove the testicles, see what's going on in there and that's that.
[7:37]So they did and they did a biopsy and there was cancer, but it was contained.
[7:42]So I didn't need chemo in 2015 and he was like, if you, if you waited out five years,
[7:47]we'll do a scan every few months, that kind of thing.
[7:49]And after five years, you should be good to go.
[7:53]And then Zibi five years later, almost to the date.
[7:56]Yeah.
[7:57]I went for my scan and they were like, oh, a cancer showed up in some lymph nodes kind
[8:00]of in my leg.
[8:01]So it wasn't the end of the world.
[8:03]I mean, I'm so lucky that I had Steven here to help me through that.
[8:07]And by that point, he had published three books.
[8:10]And so he was really a great support at, well, because the star's board was coming out.
[8:15]And so he was like, well, here's what's going to happen and here's what that process
[8:18]looks like.
[8:19]Then of course, COVID, COVID happened in the middle of the dream, chemo.
[8:23]So like, I took my little bald head and I put on my mask and Steven, you know, place
[8:28]and then he wasn't allowed to stay because of the new rules.
[8:31]I don't know.
[8:32]It was all just like, it was, it was a little bit of crazy town, but it's hard to not
[8:36]look back at that with a little smile because it brought us so much closer.
[8:41]That was a beautiful time for our family.
[8:44]And then the little experiences I had with the doctors and nurses and all that.
[8:48]So so it all worked out.
[8:49]I had to have one other surgery where they took the tumor out afterwards.
[8:52]I said to the doctor, like, he was like, that was a really weird, shaped tumor.
[8:56]And I thought, did you take a picture?
[8:58]Yeah.
[8:59]Oh, man.
[9:00]Sorry.
[9:01]I only take a picture of the giant ones.
[9:02]So I was a little bummed about that.
[9:04]But, but all is forgiven because next time, yeah, all of us forgive them because I'm safe
[9:09]and sound and healthy and moving all along.
[9:11]Oh, my gosh.
[9:12]Well, I mean, how many more obstacles can you throw in the book launches?
[9:16]Yeah.
[9:17]It's like hard enough to launch a book.
[9:18]I know.
[9:19]It's like, oh, is counting country going to review?
[9:21]You know?
[9:22]And then you've got like also like, oh, it was cancer and COVID, it was really, it was
[9:26]really a nutty time.
[9:27]I don't even need to laugh.
[9:28]I mean, it's just great.
[9:29]It is all of it.
[9:30]It's like, oh my gosh, if we can't laugh, what is the point?
[9:33]Yeah.
[9:34]And what is the point?
[9:35]It really does feel like every known then I'll have these moments where I think if I
[9:38]just take myself out of it for a second, life isn't that hard and laughter is one of those
[9:43]things where it can be sort of an automatic response.
[9:46]And if I just kind of like let it happen, let the thing be funny, sometimes it's
[9:50]fine.
[9:51]Just let it be embarrassing.
[9:52]It really can be a smooth ride.
[9:54]And so I'm all about having a good laugh at all of it.
[9:57]Yeah.
[9:58]I love that you've finalized that.
[10:00]pull section with saying what a smooth ride it is when it sounded like it was like the opposite
[10:04]of a smooth ride. So let's go with that.
[10:06]Well, the thing is it sort of like I heard this self-help lady say one time like her little mantra
[10:11]was I want what happens and I don't always feel that way. But if I can get in that headspace
[10:18]it is kind of what else is there to do, but just kind of sit in the roller coaster and let it
[10:23]roll. Yeah, so true. Wait, I didn't realize and I'm sorry I have to admit I did not read your other
[10:29]the first book is hers board. But tell me more about that and working with Carrie Fisher because
[10:34]actually my husband's business partner is married to Carrie Fisher's daughter Billy. Oh,
[10:39]that's so cool. We know them very well. Anyway, so tell me about your experience and all that.
[10:44]It was truly life-changing. She was a magical person and I worked for for about three years from
[10:51]2011 to 2014 and every day was a peak experience. Not just because we were traveling the world
[10:57]and she's rich and famous and all that stuff. But because she's hilarious. She was so funny
[11:03]and so warm and had such a great outlook on things. And I think for all time yesterday I was
[11:08]walking the dogs and the smell of the neighborhood I was in reminded me of Bali. She's only
[11:15]mind every day and and part of what was so special about my time with her was that when I started
[11:21]working for I was really depressed. My life wasn't going the way I had imagined it would go.
[11:25]things felt really hard. I was really lonely. My career as a journalist wasn't thriving. I was
[11:32]working a graveyard shift at CBS2, K-Cal 9 writing news and and then a friend of a friend basically
[11:39]emailed and was like hey would you want to work for Princess Leia? And I thought well maybe like
[11:45]if I'm going to leave this journalism career it should be for something cool. And so I met with
[11:50]Carrie and she was otherworldly and just added so much color to my life and pulled me out of that
[11:57]depression I was in and you know we talked about being seen. I felt seen by her and we also
[12:03]also shared I think this isolation you know I was isolated by being depressed and and feeling
[12:09]ugly and unwanted and unlovable and failure. And she was isolated by being a big movie star who had
[12:17]do hair and makeup before she went to the grocery store and so I think we just we were friends
[12:22]and it was really it was really lovely. And so Star's board kind of tries to capture that it's this
[12:26]depressed assistant who comes into contact with this really manic movie star and she shines her
[12:32]light on him and changes his life and and then as he starts to change he has to come to terms with
[12:37]whether he's going to live his own life or keep living hers because that's sort of what happens
[12:42]in a celebrity assistant situation you you really are living someone else's life you're living
[12:48]someone else's vacations you're having their experiences and some people can do it forever. The
[12:53]pay is great it's pretty cool to say you work for Carrie Fisher and so Debbie Reynolds carries mom
[12:59]her assistant was with her for life and that happens a lot because it's it's a it's a cool gig it's
[13:06]just this little annoying thing of if you want to do something different with your life and not
[13:11]live someone else's so that's ultimately why I ended up leaving working for her but it was it was
[13:16]life-changing it was beautiful and I hope I captured the spirit of that in a star's board and
[13:21]and Billy is such a lovely beautiful person and I don't know her partner they weren't together
[13:27]when I was when I was working for Carrie but the whole family is beautiful and I'll tell you
[13:31]Carrie cared about one thing and that was Billy and it was more beautiful to see that.
[13:35]Speaking of great moms by the way that was really beautiful to see how much you love Billy.
[13:40]Oh that was nice. I love that. So what did you do after and what were your original career
[13:46]aspirations you wanted to be a journalist from day one like tell me. Oh yeah what a nerd I wanted to
[13:51]be Katie Couric in college I had a roommate this poor guy Jason and I would set the our TV had a
[13:58]timer so I would set the alarm to wake us up like right before the today show would come on so I
[14:03]get here like the cool music and the headlines I mean what a nerd and then I got a job working for
[14:08]a local TV station in New Orleans and ended up during college working there overnights so I would
[14:14]get to work at midnight type the news for the morning show the morning show would run
[14:19]and they would get off the air at like eight I would race home change clothes then go into classes
[14:24]at moyola in New Orleans. It really was my life I worked with hoda kati she she worked at at channel
[14:31]for wwltv in New Orleans at the time I was there and so it was just a great it was just a
[14:37]great life and the TV station there was a dominant number one so everyone there in town watched
[14:43]that channel everyone watched hoda there's another brilliant anchoring Angela hill everyone was
[14:48]watching her so they could effect change in the community and so this was around like 1997-9899
[14:56]when I left journalism really changed across the board so there were fewer dominant number one
[15:02]stations and everyone got into kind of gimmicks and then I worked in las vegas for a couple years
[15:08]as an on-air reporter that was crazy that was also in the middle of the night so I put on a little
[15:14]neck type in night and live truck and the photographer and I would drive around and listen to
[15:19]police scanner and go from crime scene to crime scene it was truly like a bad movie and whatever
[15:26]was the worst thing with our live shops in the morning show so I mean that I'm not saying that
[15:30]was a big distributor to my depression at the time but maybe yeah then I got to LA and I was a
[15:35]I was a news writer and you know that's a big change from you know wanting to be on air and
[15:40]all that stuff and so I started writing movies and I wrote web series and when the thing happened
[15:45]with my testicular cancer I wrote web series called Last Will and Testicle and that was well
[15:51]received and so I don't know I kicked it all around and and was kind of looking for for the next
[15:59]thing and when Kerry passed away in 2016 I posted a little tribute on Facebook and people were so
[16:07]responsive it kind of had a little bit of a viral reaction and I thought well maybe there's more
[16:12]that story that people would like to hear and so that's that's when I started writing that book
[16:17]did you consider it as a memoir no I tried to write like Kerry used to write so she would take real
[16:23]life and then cover it with imagination and part of that is to save some save some souls so she
[16:30]had these real names and all that stuff but the other part of it was really and this was something
[16:34]I learned while I was putting a star's board together I hired a couple of freelance editors to
[16:38]kind of help me with the structure as my first book I wanted to know what I was doing and
[16:43]they would point out the areas where I mean just the shorthand of it is you need something to
[16:47]happen here like basically big and into the and my time with her was really pretty level like
[16:53]there weren't like we didn't have big fights her priorities aligned with my priorities in life
[16:59]and so in crafting a fictionalized story of that you have to add in some peaks and valleys and
[17:04]whatnot and so it was just an easier way to and it was a little bit more fun to tell a fictionalized
[17:09]version well and then how did you come to this story after that one well I started with my editor
[17:16]over at Henry Holt James Malia who's a genius and I love them and we were talking about well
[17:20]what could what could be next and Stephen and I had just had a little gay wedding it was right after
[17:25]the chemo it was right during COVID so we were trying to figure out this marriage thing and I
[17:31]proposed to him and the acknowledgements of a star's board and so I proposed in 2020 and then
[17:36]when 2021 rolled around we were like let's just do it it's Tala who knows when COVID will end
[17:41]who knows when they'll be big gatherings again also this way we don't have to invite all of our
[17:45]families yeah so it was a good excuse to just we found this this house here in Palm Springs that
[17:51]hadn't been remodeled since the 60s so it was all that great old crazy grand emerald carpets
[17:59]and curtains and things like that and so we just had an easy breezy ceremony there
[18:03]and then when it was time to write this book I thought well I had a little gay wedding but what
[18:07]if I would have had a big gay wedding what if it would have been a big grand thing and what if I
[18:11]would have done it back home where it would have been hard for my friends and family in New Orleans
[18:16]area to kind of my friends and family in the rural part of Louisiana so a little bit north of New
[18:22]Orleans like that would have been a big deal for them and even for for some people who I mean I truly
[18:28]think that the haters are kind of a minority but they're really loud so I think what would have
[18:34]happened in real life and what I tried to bring to the book is people who sort of wanted to be
[18:39]happy for the character Barnett and want to cheer him on and it just takes a little bit of courage
[18:45]to do that sometimes just saying how did you meet Stephen we met on okay Cupid no way yeah this was
[18:52]10 years ago and we were just looking at our first message just back and forth and and I said to
[18:59]him like I emailed him first I knew and I sent him a message and I wrote wow I can tell you're
[19:08]a writer because his profile was so well written it was so clever and funny and it had it had
[19:15]all the the opposite red flags that had like green flags you know like we both loved a movie
[19:20]meet Joe Black so that was one that's one thing that came to mind and we talked about complicated
[19:24]relationships with our families and so yeah we started messaging and then we had a pink berry yogurt
[19:30]date and I remember when I left there I reached out to a friend and I said I think I'm at my
[19:34]husband like I kind of just had this feeling so he was he was just that kind of guy and really special
[19:42]and he got to meet Carrie I was still working for at the time and we were at a party at Penny
[19:48]Marshall's house and Carrie had just hidden a bunch of coke zeros all around the bushes around
[19:54]Penny Marshall's swimming pool because she was scared that Penny was going to run out if you want
[19:58]to make sure she had enough coke zero to drink.
[20:00]drink. And it was that moment that I brought Steve over, like, hey, is the carry, whatever.
[20:04]And she kind of pulled him down and she was like, if you break his heart,
[20:07]I'll kill you. And I was like, Oh, what a sweet little moment.
[20:12]And that was another interesting thing about how I kind of knew that Steven
[20:16]would make a great partner is Carrie was really special to me. And most of my
[20:22]friends didn't even know I worked for her. Like, I didn't, I didn't tell people.
[20:26]I kept everything private. There was no, no gossip. And I didn't want people
[20:31]asking for me to get something signed, but a little bit of luck. And similar
[20:35]to dating people, there was no one who I ever wanted to introduce her to. And then
[20:40]I met this guy, Steven Roly. And I was like, Oh, this is a great guy. And I thought
[20:45]I thought that she'd get a kick out of him and she did. And so it was, it was all very
[20:49]lovely. And how is it being part of a two author household?
[20:54]It's pretty great. It's pretty great. I joke that we're, we're at war. You know,
[20:58]our books come out the same day. And it really is just an accident. We have
[21:01]different agents, editors, publishers, the whole thing. But May 30th, Steven's
[21:06]new book, The Celebrant Strops, The Same Day as Big gay wedding. And it's really
[21:10]lovely. I mean, I sometimes think I get more out of it than Steven. I'm able to
[21:14]go to him and be like, is this normal? Like, do you have your books yet? Have
[21:19]you seen your cover yet? How many blurbs are you asking for? So I get to go to
[21:24]him for all the good stuff. And not to mention, like, both of us reading each
[21:28]other's work and giving feedback and advice. And, and it's a pretty quiet
[21:32]house, except for our dogs, Raindrop and Shirley, who can make a ruckus when
[21:36]the nail carrier arrives. But other than that, it's, it's quiet. We say hello
[21:40]during luncheon. The only other great part is we understand when the writer
[21:45]brain is at work. So if we're stressed because we can't figure something out,
[21:49]we understand, or if something happens and we're like, oh, my gosh, I have an
[21:53]idea. Sorry, I can't go on the walk with you. I got to go right. We also get
[21:57]that. And so it's nice to have a sort of shorthand in that regard. That's
[22:01]amazing. So crazy that your books are coming on same time. So crazy. Wow. Do you
[22:06]have any plans for another one? What are you thinking? Are you writing
[22:09]something already these quiet hours? Oh, yeah, I know. I'm still, I'm still
[22:14]kicking around ideas. And I'm trying to see what comes of all of it. I want to
[22:18]turn big A wedding into a screenplay. So that's all my mind. And, and you know
[22:22]how it is. It's sometimes you're just kind of waiting to see where the, the
[22:26]creative energy goes. It'll be fun to do something about being part of a two
[22:32]author household. I mean, it's almost like a book in itself, like two
[22:36]authors, same on day. Like, but maybe there's some kind, like only one of them
[22:40]can come out or I don't know. Oh, brilliant. Yeah, we've thought about it. We
[22:44]every now and then we'll kick around ideas. Like, what about this? What about
[22:46]that? So you never know. You never know. Do you have any advice for aspiring
[22:50]authors? It's lame, but it's heartfelt. And I mean it. And it's keep going, keep
[22:56]going because sit in the chair and keep writing. If you get some rejections,
[23:01]who cares to keep going? There are so many stories of people who it was
[23:07]there, 101 rejection letter. And then they, they made their deal or whatever.
[23:12]And sometimes I think even in my own writing, I sometimes don't know what's
[23:17]going to happen in a scene until the end of the scene. Sometimes you have to
[23:20]write several chapters until you realize like, Oh, I finally found these
[23:25]people. So they keep going part of it really is just, it's just as part of it.
[23:29]So that's my advice. Don't give up. Keep going. You've got this, everyone.
[23:34]Well, I shouldn't say everyone, but the writers I know all experience the
[23:37]same thing. Am I a failure? Is this dumb and posture syndrome is real? So
[23:43]the truth is to just take your story and bring it to the page. And and
[23:46]Carrie Fisher to round things out with her. She used to say, take your broken
[23:50]heart and go make art. And it really did feel like that served me when it
[23:54]came time to write a star's board. I feel like it serves me when I have to take
[24:00]regrets in my life and put them into some of these characters and big gay
[24:04]wedding. And so, so keep going, keep going with your story. And it's important.
[24:09]What you're doing is important. I love that. And I'm so excited. You'll be at
[24:13]Zebee's bookshop soon. I think this might air afterwards. But hopefully we
[24:17]can record the thing because I'm so sad. I won't be there in person, but
[24:21]Oh, well, no worries. I, but I am, I'm excited to. I love the empire you were
[24:26]creating. It is such an honor to be chatting with you. What you have done for
[24:31]authors is brilliant, amazing groundbreaking. And I just, I just, I just think
[24:38]you're iconic. And I'm, I'm kind of fanboying out. I'm thrilled that you were
[24:42]able to chat with me. And I can't wait to, to visit your bookstore. Yeah. Thank
[24:46]you. Well, this is so much fun. And I love talking to you. And I hope to
[24:50]continue in person at West. That sounds great. Zebee. All right.
[24:54]Okay. Hi, just even. Okay. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms. Don't
[25:01]have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebee Owens
[25:05]and at Moms. Don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at
[25:09]Zebee Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of
[25:12]authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures
[25:16]Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for
[25:20]providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.