Cecilia Rabess, EVERYTHING'S FINE
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[1:03]Cecilia Rabez is the author of Everything's Fine.
[1:06]Cecilia previously worked as a data scientist at Google and as an associate at Goldman Sachs.
[1:11]Her nonfiction has been featured in McSwenie's 538 Fast Company and flowing data among
[1:16]other places.
[1:17]Everything's fine.
[1:18]It's her debut novel.
[1:19]Welcome, Cecilia.
[1:20]Thanks for coming on mom's no time to read books to discuss Everything's Fine.
[1:23]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:25]I am extremely excited to be here because this is my very first podcast ever.
[1:30]Oh, that's amazing.
[1:32]Oh my God.
[1:33]I feel like a publicist usually put me first because I'm like a very warm, gentle podcast.
[1:38]And it's not very like professional.
[1:40]It's just literally just a conversation.
[1:42]So delighted.
[1:44]Well, tell everybody about your book.
[1:47]What is your book about?
[1:48]Yeah.
[1:49]So everything's fine is the story of two very different young people.
[1:55]And they fall sort of reluctantly, complicatedly, but also quite deeply in love.
[2:02]This is the protagonist and she's a young black woman and she's liberal and she meets
[2:07]Josh.
[2:08]She's this young white guy and he's conservative.
[2:10]And the book is set between the years of 2008 and 2016.
[2:15]So you know, book ended by Obama and Trump's president season.
[2:18]So sort of the arc of the relationship traces the arc of America's increasingly fractured
[2:24]political climate.
[2:26]And so yeah, as you can guess, complications into amazing.
[2:31]And it also is like a very in-depth look at what it means to be an analyst at an investment
[2:37]bank and what that culture is like.
[2:40]And yeah, just I feel like the bank itself is like a character in the culture.
[2:46]Yeah, it's right because I guess I think of it as sort of like, yes, it's a love story.
[2:51]Yes, it's a coming age story, but it's also a workplace novel.
[2:55]So yeah, Paxil at end.
[2:57]It really does.
[2:58]And you have such a great sense of voice.
[3:00]It's really great.
[3:01]And even just the way that the title plays in and how it's so we're also quick to be like,
[3:06]I know we're fine.
[3:07]Everything's fine.
[3:08]And yeah, it's not a lie.
[3:10]It's just like you can't even deal with getting into the stuff.
[3:13]Very.
[3:14]Yeah.
[3:15]Like sometimes it's a lie.
[3:16]You're telling yourself sometimes the lie you're telling someone else, but sometimes
[3:19]you just really want it to be so.
[3:21]Yeah.
[3:22]And so yeah, I think I kind of play with all of those ideas in the novel.
[3:26]So I watched like the little Instagram reel you did about what it was like writing your
[3:30]novel and like the frustration of that and how it's now finally coming to fruition.
[3:35]Tell me about the whole process of getting here and, you know, having your books sold
[3:40]at auction and that's so amazing.
[3:43]So tell me the whole story and maybe just back up and give me a little background that
[3:47]might not be on your bio.
[3:49]Yeah.
[3:50]So I have always loved reading and writing.
[3:53]So I'm going way back to the beginning.
[3:55]Yeah, go way back all the way.
[3:58]For writers, I think it's rare to find someone who didn't like love to read as a kid.
[4:01]So that's my story as well, but I think unlike maybe many writers, I ended up just completely
[4:08]like pivoting away from sort of like English, literature, liberal arts.
[4:14]And I ended up going to business school, working in finance, working in tech.
[4:19]I'm still a data scientist.
[4:21]And so kind of always had this passion for writing and reading, but like wasn't really
[4:26]pursuing it professionally, then, you know, I turned 30 and like did the whole thing
[4:32]where I like takes stock and I was like, am I going to climb a mountain or am I going
[4:36]to write a novel?
[4:37]And I was kind of out of shape.
[4:40]So I decided to write a novel.
[4:43]And it was a pretty chaotic process, you know, so I didn't really have a process.
[4:48]I just kind of like regurgitated everything on the page.
[4:51]And actually, I guess I can take a step back here and say that when I started writing
[4:55]the novel, I think I knew that I wanted to write a love story, but I didn't really have
[5:00]any idea beyond that.
[5:02]Like I didn't know who the characters would be, what the setting was, like what the central
[5:05]tension would be.
[5:06]So I was sitting there with this idea to write a novel, but not really sure how to go
[5:09]about it.
[5:10]And it was 2018.
[5:13]And so as the middle of Trump's presidency, I think a lot of people on the left, myself
[5:18]included were still kind of like trying to figure out like what had happened and like how
[5:23]to reckon with all that like we had seen happen in our nation.
[5:28]And so I read actually an article or I saw an article in New York magazine that was called
[5:32]Donald Trump is destroying my marriage.
[5:36]And I think initially I was like extremely turned off by the headline.
[5:39]I was like, I just, I don't want to hear about people sort of saying like we agreed
[5:43]to disagree like follow a lot.
[5:45]But I was, you know, intrigued and so I did click.
[5:48]And the article was actually pretty fascinating, a lot more nuanced than the headlines
[5:52]adjusted.
[5:53]And basically the premise was that there were couples who were struggling to keep it together
[5:58]in Trump's America where previously they had sort of been able to skirt past some of their
[6:02]political differences.
[6:03]And so I was like, aha, I have a lot of questions.
[6:06]I have a lot to say about like where we are today at America.
[6:10]I have this idea for a love story like why didn't I just smash them together.
[6:14]And so that's kind of the origin story of everything's fine.
[6:17]So I spent several years, you know, just kind of like writing in circles sometimes,
[6:22]but basically like trying to make the book better bit by bit.
[6:25]And then finally, I think my story is somewhat traditional in this sense.
[6:30]I just kind of started sending the book out to agents.
[6:33]And one thing I'll say is that I sort of didn't follow like there's rules or best practices
[6:38]for reaching out to agents.
[6:40]But as soon as I hit the end on my first draft, I was like, okay, I'm getting an agent now
[6:45]which you're not supposed to do, you're supposed to revise, you're supposed to push the
[6:47]the book as far as you can without feedback from professional, but I sent it out anyway.
[6:52]I was super excited.
[6:54]And as you can imagine, I got absolutely zero in trust because we're just where it needed
[6:59]to be.
[7:00]How did you find the agents anyway?
[7:02]Did you like look in a book or did you know anybody or like how did you how did they
[7:06]end up?
[7:07]So one thing, you know, I think that people tell you is to like look in the acknowledgement
[7:11]sections of books that you love and like find those agents and reach out to them.
[7:15]So I did a version of that, but what I did to be like, hopefully slightly more strategic
[7:20]was I thought about like the premise of my novel.
[7:24]And then I looked at various agents, manuscript wish list and tried to like match like
[7:29]almost word for word.
[7:31]What I thought I was writing with what they expressed interest in reading because I was
[7:35]like, okay, if they're definitely interested in this book, if executed well and they
[7:40]reject me, then I know it's the execution and not the premise.
[7:43]So it was kind of like, I don't know, just trying to tease out like where I could do better.
[7:48]Kind of like free professional advice as well.
[7:50]Even though the rejection sting, I think it was, you know, somewhat helpful to just like
[7:54]hear back from someone who knew what they were doing.
[7:58]So I did a round of querying and not a lot came of that except for some feedback.
[8:04]I revised them more.
[8:06]I queried again.
[8:07]The book was in much better shape.
[8:09]I still didn't necessarily get, well, I didn't get an agent, but I got a lot more sort
[8:15]of bites.
[8:16]And one agent in particular, I don't know why she did this.
[8:19]I sent her the book and she rejected it like immediately and you're not supposed, you're
[8:25]not supposed to reach back out to agents and ask them why they rejected your book because
[8:29]I guess that's like poor form.
[8:31]They're very busy people.
[8:32]It's a little bit rude.
[8:33]They can't answer everyone, but I just was like, I'm curious because I thought you
[8:38]you might like this.
[8:39]And she was extremely kind and generous and she wrote back and she said, you know what,
[8:44]why don't I just take a look at the whole manuscript and I'll give you feedback.
[8:47]And it wasn't like she was saying, I might offer you representation if you can make
[8:51]this change or that change.
[8:52]She was just like being a good literary citizen.
[8:55]So she read the book.
[8:56]She gave me feedback.
[8:57]It didn't take any of the feedback, but I think it did for me.
[9:00]Yeah, it wasn't actually, you were going to say she read the whole thing and took
[9:03]it.
[9:04]It's funny because like she knew that it wasn't for her, but I guess she just wanted
[9:09]to like help me out.
[9:10]That's so nice.
[9:11]Yeah.
[9:12]And I think that sort of like people say sometimes, you know, not every agent is for every
[9:16]writer and it's hard to accept that when you're just like banging your head against
[9:20]well trying to find an agent, but that is the case.
[9:23]So she read it and she gave me feedback and she was very generous, but it just wasn't
[9:26]feedback that resonated with me, but it did sort of make me feel taken seriously as a writer.
[9:32]So I went back to the, not the drawing board completely, but I kind of like went back
[9:37]to basics and like revised and like fixed up the manuscripts and sent it out one more time.
[9:43]So where these all different sets of agents, you didn't repeat that.
[9:46]Okay.
[9:47]I didn't repeat.
[9:48]Okay.
[9:49]So now you're in your third round of submissions.
[9:50]Okay.
[9:51]Good.
[9:52]Right.
[9:53]And that's when I found success.
[9:54]So then, you know, the hit rate was high, multiple agents were interested.
[9:59]I found.
[10:00]my amazing agent, which funnily enough,
[10:02]is not someone I queried.
[10:03]I actually queried someone at her agency,
[10:06]who said it's not for me,
[10:07]but my colleague might be interested.
[10:10]So yes, I guess I call it a traditional story
[10:12]in the sense that I literally just emailed agents,
[10:14]but it was a bit of a roundabout.
[10:18]Interesting.
[10:19]So who is your agent?
[10:20]She is fantastic.
[10:21]She's at WME and her name is Andrea Blatt.
[10:24]Amazing.
[10:25]Wow, that's awesome.
[10:27]So during all those rewrites
[10:29]and tweaks, did you ever consider giving up
[10:33]and just being like, okay, I guess it's not going to happen?
[10:35]Yeah, I am sure I did,
[10:38]because I feel like there were lots of,
[10:41]it was an emotional rollercoaster.
[10:42]I'm sure I was scraped off the floor many times
[10:45]for my friends and family,
[10:46]but I don't think I ever felt like giving up completely.
[10:51]I think I just had all sorts of like cocky-mamey ideas
[10:54]for how to revise the manuscript to make it work,
[10:58]one of which was actually shifting the entire timeline
[11:02]30 years into the past.
[11:04]Because I felt like 2016 was still quite raw for a lot of people
[11:08]and someone who might be predisposed to enjoy the book
[11:11]could just feel distracted by all the politics of it.
[11:13]So I was like, let's just do this in 1980.
[11:16]And the funny thing was it was a really easy sort of mapping
[11:21]because not a lot has changed.
[11:22]Like people were literally even running on
[11:24]make America great again if you recall Ronald Reagan.
[11:27]So that was kind of just an interesting,
[11:30]actually gave me a little bit more conviction
[11:33]in the story because I was like,
[11:34]this is just America's story, you know,
[11:36]and it might not be for everyone,
[11:38]but I feel like I am going to tell it.
[11:41]Wow.
[11:42]And then, okay, just because now I'm invested
[11:44]in your journey here.
[11:45]So you got the agent and then did you revise it
[11:47]a little before sending it out
[11:48]or you sent it right away?
[11:50]Well, that is the amazing thing.
[11:52]So the timeline is really remarkable.
[11:55]That I'd say is not traditional.
[11:57]So I think I emailed my agent or she emailed me
[12:01]because her colleague had passed along my manuscripts
[12:03]on let's say a Friday and she said,
[12:05]I'm going to take a read, I'll let you know.
[12:07]And then by Saturday, she had reached out
[12:09]and she was like, I love it.
[12:10]Like let me just like make a few calls and like I'll get back
[12:14]to you and I didn't know what she meant by that,
[12:15]but she was reaching out to other agents
[12:17]at the agency like foreign sales agent,
[12:20]film and TV agents getting them to read it.
[12:22]And so she kind of like had assembled
[12:25]this crack team of agents that I spoke to.
[12:28]I think it was like Monday or Tuesday
[12:30]sort of like pitching me on the agency
[12:31]and their passion for the project.
[12:33]And I was like, all right, I'm sold.
[12:35]So maybe by like Wednesday, she was my agent.
[12:39]And you know, based on what I've heard from other writers,
[12:42]I was like, all right, we're gonna like maybe go back
[12:44]and forth for a couple of months
[12:46]like get the manuscript in shape.
[12:48]And she's like, no, there's just one thing
[12:49]I want you to change.
[12:50]And it was literally just like a continuity issue.
[12:54]So I changed that on let's say Thursday.
[12:56]I was still working full time.
[12:57]So it was a bit of a stretch,
[12:59]but I was feeling her momentum.
[13:02]And then she sent it out.
[13:03]I think the next Monday to editors.
[13:07]And then I was like, all right, here's where I'm gonna
[13:09]have to wait a minute.
[13:11]But then no, by like Thursday I had an offer.
[13:14]No, yeah, it happened extremely quickly,
[13:17]but my agent, I cannot sing her praises highly.
[13:20]Now she is like impossible to say no to like,
[13:23]I assure you like, I'm sure every editor who heard from her
[13:26]was like, okay, I gotta drop everything,
[13:27]do what she tells me because that's just kind of her energy.
[13:31]Wow.
[13:32]Yeah. And then it went to auction.
[13:33]So then when did you have your deal?
[13:36]Probably by the next week.
[13:38]So oh my gosh, I heard from editors starting on that Thursday
[13:43]and then scheduled conversations with them Thursday,
[13:46]Friday and some like the Monday of the next week.
[13:50]Then there was an auction.
[13:53]And I think there were two rounds of bids.
[13:55]Oh my gosh.
[13:56]And yeah, by the end of the next week, yeah,
[13:58]I had a book deal.
[13:59]That is insane.
[14:00]It's amazing.
[14:01]It was so inspiring.
[14:03]So what were you feeling when this was all going on?
[14:05]Like, could you believe it was happening?
[14:06]Or were you just like, yes.
[14:08]Of course, I mean, first of all,
[14:10]I would describe myself as a post processor.
[14:13]So like, anything that happens to me,
[14:15]I need like at least a year to like kind of come to terms
[14:18]with like, I'm not joking.
[14:20]So I think I was just like, completely in shock, you know?
[14:24]And it was really funny because I told my,
[14:27]I was, you know, telling my mom about this
[14:29]as it was happening.
[14:29]And she was like, make sure it's not a scam.
[14:32]Like, don't give them your social security number.
[14:36]That's really funny.
[14:37]I was just like extremely surreal.
[14:38]Like, no one expects this, you know?
[14:40]She'd seen me sort of struggle with the novel for many years.
[14:44]So I was curious when you were meeting with, or I am curious,
[14:48]when you were meeting with different publishers
[14:50]and hearing all about whatever they thought about the book
[14:53]or what they were like, how did you choose your publisher?
[14:57]And like, what stood out to you?
[14:58]Like, how did you decide and like,
[15:00]what disappointed you not to not don't name names or anything?
[15:03]But just like in general.
[15:04]Oh yeah, that's an interesting question.
[15:06]I think, you know, I learned a lot from those conversations
[15:10]that now I think I would carry into book two,
[15:12]but at the time I didn't really know anything about.
[15:14]So one thing is just like having conviction in your vision,
[15:19]which I think generally I'm a pretty easy-going person,
[15:23]open to feedback if somebody's like,
[15:25]why don't you change like the character to like,
[15:28]I don't know, a Scandinavian.
[15:29]I'm like, sure, let's try it.
[15:31]That was a weird example, but I think.
[15:34]So I think one thing that I noticed a lot
[15:37]was that some editors were very interested
[15:42]in changing things that felt quite central
[15:44]to the core of the novel.
[15:46]Like, I think one editor who seemed quite enthusiastic
[15:50]wanted to get rid of all the politics.
[15:52]Yeah, if you read the book,
[15:54]you'll know why that doesn't necessarily work.
[15:57]And so that was an easy conversation
[15:59]and that I was like, well, we're probably not on the same page.
[16:03]But then I think it can get a little trickier
[16:05]when the suggestions are subtler
[16:08]and there are things that you hadn't necessarily thought
[16:11]too hard about like, you know,
[16:13]is the character going to like go home
[16:16]for Thanksgiving or not?
[16:18]And like, you know, things like that,
[16:19]I think it forces you to sort of really ask yourself,
[16:24]like, what am I trying to say?
[16:26]How am I trying to say it?
[16:27]Like, what will I compromise?
[16:28]And what one I compromise?
[16:29]So that was something that I learned.
[16:31]That was sort of interesting
[16:33]because, you know, when you're writing a book by yourself
[16:36]in the corner, like you can just do whatever you want
[16:38]and no one's opinion matters.
[16:41]I think that's the main thing.
[16:44]Yeah.
[16:45]When I tried to sell a novel for the first time in 2005,
[16:51]or something like that,
[16:52]and it was about, it was based on a true story,
[16:56]but I fictionalized it about losing my best friend in 9-11.
[16:59]And it was all about, thank you.
[17:02]It was all about 9-11.
[17:04]Like, that was the core of the thing
[17:06]and it was about it and I went to business school also,
[17:07]by the way.
[17:08]Oh, yeah.
[17:09]Where did you go?
[17:10]This is, I went to Harvard.
[17:11]Okay, cool.
[17:12]Oh, you have Booth.
[17:14]Nice Booth.
[17:15]Booth, awesome.
[17:16]And I was, by the way, one of the few creative writers
[17:19]and, you know, I was like, am I here for just to mix it up?
[17:23]But I also love marketing and all that stuff.
[17:26]But anyway, one of the agents wrote back and said,
[17:28]you know, I really liked it,
[17:29]but could you have the friend die in a car accident?
[17:33]And I was like, what?
[17:34]That's like the entire book.
[17:35]What?
[17:36]She like really liked the friendship piece,
[17:38]but thought it was like too soon for that.
[17:40]So I don't know.
[17:41]That's how you know.
[17:42]Yeah.
[17:43]So now that after all this hard work and time
[17:45]and energy and excitement,
[17:47]now that it's like getting much closer to coming out,
[17:49]how are you feeling about things and, you know,
[17:52]how ready are you and, you know, give me the whole?
[17:54]Yeah, I think I'm like, as little ready
[17:59]as someone can be for something that they've been
[18:02]preparing for for like five years feels like,
[18:06]I don't know if this is a good analogy,
[18:08]but like a wedding, you know, I've been like planning
[18:10]for so long.
[18:11]There's so much build up and sort of Bruhaha.
[18:16]And so I'm sure like when the day comes,
[18:19]I will feel a lot, but I'm not even sure like,
[18:22]if I'll be able to process it.
[18:25]But of course it's not just the day that matters,
[18:27]even though that's what it feels like.
[18:29]Sometimes it's sort of like the whole, you know,
[18:32]the marriage or like the career of being a writer
[18:35]and like the life of this book.
[18:37]So I think I'm kind of uncomfortably excited,
[18:42]but we, I think I have a lot of like fun events planned.
[18:46]So I hope that takes the edge off,
[18:48]but yeah, it's really nerve wracking, you know,
[18:50]like your, it's interesting because I didn't realize
[18:53]before sort of getting on this like publishing train,
[18:57]how many people would engage with the book
[18:59]before it even hit shelves.
[19:00]So I've sort of had like a good experience more than I thought.
[19:04]like, yeah, people read it months in advance.
[19:07]Like I thought it would just be like on June 6th suddenly,
[19:10]like everybody knows what I've been doing
[19:11]for the past half of that game.
[19:13]But so yeah, I think I'm somewhat prepared,
[19:16]but I don't know if there's anything that can prepare you.
[19:19]Well, my two cents not that you needed at all,
[19:21]but because I had, my memoir came out last July
[19:25]and I was like, you know, I'd worked for 20 years
[19:27]on and off with the same story.
[19:28]And I was so nervous and all this.
[19:30]And like you just have to keep in mind
[19:31]like consumers don't know that like,
[19:34]like the average consumer shopping for a book
[19:36]is not like, okay, today's Tuesday, June 6th
[19:39]and I've got to go out and get this is the day,
[19:41]the way that it works in movies sometimes.
[19:43]Like a book buying population aside from people
[19:46]like closer to the industry.
[19:47]I don't think are as, well, I shouldn't make generalizations.
[19:51]What I'm trying to say is like,
[19:53]it doesn't all happen that first week.
[19:55]That makes sense to me.
[19:56]Cause yeah, I don't think I'd go to bookstores
[19:58]on Tuesday morning.
[20:00]You don't even think about it, right?
[20:01]Yeah.
[20:02]Like it's just the next time you go to a store,
[20:03]maybe you'll look at new releases
[20:04]and you'll see what's out there.
[20:05]Yeah, so I kind of wish I had known that myself.
[20:09]Like, okay, if nothing happens the day after pub day,
[20:14]like how could people even read it?
[20:15]Like how could people even touch it
[20:16]in order to like it and post about it
[20:18]and spread the word?
[20:19]Like all that's not, I mean, yours seems like
[20:21]it's an totally different category.
[20:22]There's so much buzz and all this stuff.
[20:23]So I'm not worried, but it just can take a little longer
[20:27]to have people find it and start reading it and finish it.
[20:31]Like let people have time to finish reading it.
[20:33]Yeah.
[20:33]Did you see that article that went around
[20:36]by, I guess the bookseller did a survey of debut authors
[20:40]and found that 54% of them felt like debuting
[20:44]as an author was bad for their mental health?
[20:46]Oh, I did not see that, but now I'm gonna look that up.
[20:49]I'm gonna write this down.
[20:50]I think it's yeah, it's because you're,
[20:52]yeah, you're waiting for something
[20:54]that might not happen.
[20:58]Also, I think, yeah,
[20:59]I would say probably 54% of authors have an anxiety disorder.
[21:04]Yeah, to start with, did I?
[21:07]I say that from a place of love,
[21:08]given that I have had anxiety my whole life
[21:10]and didn't realize it was anything problematic.
[21:12]I just thought it was the way it was.
[21:14]So, but I do feel I've met so many like minded people
[21:17]and you have to kind of like always be wondering why
[21:20]or what if, right?
[21:21]And that is a sort of similar to the anxious frame of mind.
[21:25]Yeah, so I think that it's not like
[21:30]the most confident people are all in the same boat.
[21:33]Mm-hmm.
[21:34]But I guess I feel like having worked in like data and analytics,
[21:39]like there are obviously metrics,
[21:41]like you can see how many books sell,
[21:43]but I feel like it still feels like a bit of a black hole.
[21:49]And it's not, that doesn't count necessarily how many times
[21:52]they've been taken out of the library
[21:54]or how many times you've shared
[21:56]or sometimes the audiobook sales take like a quarter to get.
[21:59]And he just don't know, there's lots going on.
[22:02]I don't know, I put an email address in the book.
[22:05]So, and I said, if you finish this and you like it,
[22:07]reach out to me, I'll write you back.
[22:09]Oh, nice.
[22:09]So, that's the only way that I was like gauging
[22:13]and I was ignoring all the reviews.
[22:14]Because I was like, if you didn't like this book,
[22:16]please don't write me.
[22:17]So, yeah.
[22:21]But yeah, I was just, it's not going to happen in like one day
[22:24]or maybe for you, well, but I don't know.
[22:25]For the most people, yeah, no.
[22:28]Public is expectation.
[22:31]Yeah, make it more of a celebration of the accomplishment.
[22:33]And like that you can plan and the tour is fun
[22:35]and all that is great and you'll meet lots of interesting people.
[22:38]But, you know, just remember who you're selling too.
[22:41]Yeah, I think, I don't know if you've ever spoken to her,
[22:44]but mum Jen is a writer who I admire.
[22:46]She's like freakishly smart and her first novel was about like six.
[22:51]I don't think she said this, but she told me this
[22:54]and it really resonated.
[22:55]I was like, you know, she was in the middle of her book tour
[22:57]and book promotion and she said, nothing feels as good
[23:01]as writing a novel.
[23:03]You know, no part of the process of writing a novel,
[23:06]including all the promo and the touring just as good
[23:09]as like the actual thing, which sounds surprising
[23:12]to an unfulfished author because you're like,
[23:14]what about getting a deal?
[23:15]What am I getting an agent?
[23:15]But it's, I'm learning that it's true, you know?
[23:18]It's totally different.
[23:20]One is a business, it's an external experience
[23:22]and one is a deeply creative experience.
[23:24]So, but anyway, I don't know why I'm giving you advice.
[23:27]You don't need advice.
[23:28]No, I don't.
[23:29]I don't know.
[23:30]You've had this whirlwind success already
[23:31]and I'm sure it will continue.
[23:32]So I hope it's not sounding condescending in any way.
[23:35]You know, but I hardly know, you know.
[23:38]So anyway, I'm excited for you.
[23:40]Are you working on anything else?
[23:41]Do you have a new book in the works and all that?
[23:43]I do have a new book in the works.
[23:45]It's, I'm struggling to find time to work on it,
[23:47]but I actually have as of last week
[23:49]an accountability partner.
[23:51]So we're both working on, you know, getting our drafts
[23:53]on by the end of the summer.
[23:55]But yeah, that also I think is quite a bomb
[23:58]to the anxious debut author.
[24:00]Like to just start the next thing
[24:03]because that's really the goal, at least for me,
[24:06]just to like write one and then another one
[24:08]and keep going.
[24:09]Yeah, I want to do a thing to the anxious debut author
[24:13]for Zippy Mac and get quotes.
[24:15]I'll come back and tell them.
[24:17]And that's great.
[24:20]And is there anything you love to do
[24:21]when you're not writing or data processing
[24:24]and doing all the things?
[24:26]Oh yeah, that's a fun question.
[24:28]There's a few things.
[24:29]Like I love snow sports.
[24:32]It's this passion that I developed
[24:34]actually moving to California.
[24:35]Like people in California are like for real.
[24:38]Like they will wake up at six a.m. to go hiking.
[24:41]Like it's normal.
[24:42]I didn't grow up in that.
[24:44]So I kind of have adopted this sort of outdoorsy lifestyle
[24:47]and part of that for the first time ever.
[24:49]I went skiing when I moved out here,
[24:50]which was a decade ago now.
[24:52]And I'm super into it.
[24:55]That's awesome.
[24:56]Are you in LA?
[24:57]I'm in San Francisco.
[24:59]Oh, you're in San Francisco.
[25:00]Awesome.
[25:00]Well, you should, if you, I don't know, I'm assured.
[25:02]You should come to Zippy's book shop in Santa Monica.
[25:05]I haven't been coming.
[25:05]Yeah, I will be coming.
[25:06]I saw that you opened it.
[25:08]I did.
[25:09]Yeah, it's beautiful.
[25:10]If you want to add a tour stop or whatever,
[25:11]we're happy to see you.
[25:12]Yeah, I'll definitely stop.
[25:13]But I think I'm going to be in,
[25:15]it's in Santa Monica, right?
[25:16]Yeah.
[25:17]Yeah.
[25:17]So I'm going to be staying there for a couple of days.
[25:19]Yeah.
[25:20]Oh, I'll be there in June too.
[25:22]Oh, perfect.
[25:23]I'll be there June.
[25:24]I just finally set all my dates for the summer.
[25:26]It took hours between all the kids different.
[25:28]Where are you based schedules?
[25:30]I'm in the conversations in LA.
[25:32]Oh, okay.
[25:33]But the rest of the time I'm in New York City.
[25:34]Oh, gotcha.
[25:35]Okay.
[25:36]So go back and forth.
[25:38]But anyway, well, good luck.
[25:40]I hope I see you in LA.
[25:41]And I'm really excited for you.
[25:44]Yeah, thanks so much.
[25:45]Appreciate it.
[25:46]All right.
[25:47]Oh, thanks for talking.
[25:48]Okay.
[25:49]Bye-bye.
[25:50]Thanks for listening to this episode
[25:52]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:54]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:56]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:59]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zebioans.com
[26:02]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:03]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:06]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[26:07]I'm at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:10]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:12]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.