Jamie Day, THE BLOCK PARTY
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Jamie Day is the author of The Block Party, a novel, Julie Chavez, guest hosted this episode.
[1:09]She is the author of Everyone But Myself, which comes out from Zippy Books in 2024, January
[1:15]and hosts Ask a Librarian Podcast.
[1:18]Jamie Day lives in one of those picture-perfect, coastal New England towns you see in the movies.
[1:23]And just like the movies, Jamie has two children and an adorable dog to fun over.
[1:28]not writing or reading, Jamie enjoys yoga, the ocean cooking, and long walks on the beach
[1:33]with a dog or the kids or some rooms both.
[1:36]Jamie, thank you so much for coming on, moms don't have time to read books to talk about
[1:41]your book.
[1:42]I'm so excited you're here.
[1:43]Well, thank you so much.
[1:44]It is really a thrill and pleasure to be here.
[1:47]I am excited because I read The Block Party yesterday.
[1:51]You should know that I was walking around the house with it.
[1:54]In my left hand, while I was doing things, I read it, covered to cover, I loved it.
[1:59]I was so, it was, the word, after I finished reading it, I thought, okay, how do I sum
[2:04]this up?
[2:05]Because it's sometimes hard for me, especially with a book like this, so I don't want
[2:08]to give too much away.
[2:09]This book was satisfying.
[2:11]Oh, I don't know if there's higher praise.
[2:14]Oh, good.
[2:16]One time somebody once said highly readable about a book of mine and I thought, is that
[2:22]praise highly readable and then I thought, it actually is.
[2:25]It's really what I know.
[2:26]That's the goal.
[2:27]The goal is not to make you work hard.
[2:30]The goal is to entertain, enthrall, captivate your imagination and just keep you turning
[2:36]the pages, going, what's going to happen next?
[2:40]It's really high praise to say at the end of that journey and I don't take it for granted.
[2:47]I was like, I'm asking you to spend an awful lot of time with something that came
[2:51]out of my head, sure, never take that for granted.
[2:55]So I always think about, I want you to have, what's the experience, I want to have
[2:58]it satisfied and satisfying is just the terrific description of what I'd be after, a terrific
[3:05]word for what I'm after.
[3:06]So thank you.
[3:07]Oh, it's my pleasure and you definitely achieved it.
[3:09]It was so interestingly expressed and woven and I was invested.
[3:17]I mean, there's just so much to talk about today without even giving anything away.
[3:22]And I have to say, I typically can see things coming and this one had a lot of twists
[3:29]that I didn't see coming.
[3:30]So I think people are going to, I know, I think it was Sally Hepworth that said, people
[3:36]will devour this book and that's how I felt about it.
[3:38]Yeah.
[3:39]This is what I'm hoping this is your summer time.
[3:41]Yes.
[3:42]A full-side good time read and that is exactly what I was after.
[3:48]Yeah, you know, it's a bit of a magic trick.
[3:52]I mean, that's part of the that's part of the craft where you're, you're really trying
[3:57]to create something that says, can I play fair and lead you in certain directions that
[4:04]give you all the answers.
[4:05]So everything's there for you, but yet you still struggle to put it all together at the
[4:10]very end.
[4:11]And so that's that's the crafty part.
[4:13]That's the magic trick part.
[4:15]So that's, and honestly, that's really part of the fun for me as a writer.
[4:19]That's such a good way to put it is a magic trick because the best books you don't see
[4:24]the magician.
[4:25]You don't see the author necessarily.
[4:26]I mean, of course in like memoir, but in a novel, there is sort of this disappearing act
[4:31]and you definitely pulled it off because also what's interesting about this book is the
[4:36]way that you wove the perspectives because some is written in the first person and some
[4:40]is written in the third person.
[4:41]Right.
[4:42]Reason for that is a very, is a very good reason that I made that choice, which I could,
[4:49]I could, I could tell you, I would love to hear that.
[4:51]Yeah, I thought you were going to just dangle that in front of me and be like, and I'm
[4:54]not telling you.
[4:55]No, this is one that I'm going to reveal, this is just a reveal.
[4:58]So, so, uh, Lettie is the character that was first person.
[5:03]So, Lettie is a teenager.
[5:05]She's a high school senior or rising senior, I guess is what they, they say she's
[5:10]going into her final year in high school book opens really in the, the summertime and
[5:16]she is suspended from school for something that she did and, and she's just, it's really
[5:22]the start of her journey and I love, you know, the name, Lettie, by the way, this is kind
[5:27]of a fun story.
[5:28]I don't think that name actually exists.
[5:30]So I sat down to kind of write the book and I'm like, well, I got a name of this character.
[5:36]What's her name?
[5:37]And Lettie pops into my head.
[5:39]And I'm like, is that even a name?
[5:41]I think it should be a name.
[5:43]Is there anybody named Lettie?
[5:44]And I really couldn't find the origin of the name Lettie.
[5:48]I couldn't find, I don't think there's a lot of people named Lettie.
[5:50]Right.
[5:51]Or maybe, you know, maybe it, it is, but it's not a very popular name of so.
[5:55]And so I gave her this backstory of her, her, given name is Elizabeth, but she couldn't
[6:00]pronounce it as a young kid.
[6:02]So she called herself Lettie Beth, Lettie Beth, and then it just stuck his Lettie.
[6:08]And the thing about Lettie is, you know, as a teenager, what is she saying versus what
[6:15]is she thinking?
[6:16]And I have a teenage daughter.
[6:19]And oftentimes she speaks in monosyllabic, kinds of, I believe some of them are words,
[6:28]some of them are noises.
[6:30]And you know, I kind of can interpret them.
[6:32]Yes.
[6:33]She's saying always, and I can see the hidden meaning and I have to study kind of facial
[6:39]expressions and eyebrow twitches and all that.
[6:42]And I can see what she's trying to say.
[6:44]But every now and again, she just kind of opens up and she gives me this eek into her inner
[6:52]world and it's profoundly complex and it's so much deeper than I realized.
[6:59]But it's so much more aware and insightful and magical in a lot of ways.
[7:07]And I'm just sometimes in awe of what she knows, what's going on, you know, behind the curtain,
[7:13]if you will.
[7:14]Yes.
[7:15]And so I realize if I'm going to tell the story, Lettie's story, I have to be able to give
[7:19]you the kind of the verbal Lettie, but also give you that inner world.
[7:23]And it's really hard to do the inner world if you're not in that character's head.
[7:27]So that's why I chose to write her first person.
[7:30]And for her mother, who's the other main protagonist, Alex, you know, she's got her own
[7:35]struggle.
[7:36]She's really struggling with alcohol.
[7:38]And that that automatically removes you a little bit from your own experience.
[7:43]The alcohol does.
[7:44]And so from that standpoint, I really wanted the alcohol to kind of represent a barrier
[7:49]between Alex and herself.
[7:52]And so that barriers why I said, you know, I could tell her story a third person,
[7:56]Lettie's in first.
[7:58]And I think that's the right thing for this book.
[8:00]I am amazed to hear that.
[8:02]And just listening to you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, that's absolutely the way it
[8:05]needed to be done.
[8:06]I'm so impressed.
[8:08]And you're exactly right, teenagers.
[8:10]They're so inscrutable, but their world underneath is so much, you know, it's like we talk
[8:18]about things like puppy love, right?
[8:20]Or teen, whatever, but you forget it's so real, so intense.
[8:25]Their world is.
[8:26]But you're right.
[8:27]They are the KG.
[8:28]KG and those are great work, Kate, inscrutable, KG, excellent, excellent word choices.
[8:34]And the thing that I didn't want to do is I didn't want to kind of downplay her.
[8:37]So sometimes people will read, maybe they'll read her character and say, oh, well, she's
[8:43]too mature for a teenager.
[8:45]And I would just counter that by saying, you don't know the teenagers in a world.
[8:49]I don't know how smart they are.
[8:50]You don't know how adult they actually are.
[8:53]Yes.
[8:54]Most of the non-adulptness of a teen manifests in behavior where you would kind of say,
[9:01]oh, well, I wouldn't have done that.
[9:02]And then there's some pieces that are, you know, emotional immaturity.
[9:06]Yes.
[9:07]Their ability to process and analyze and interpret and into it is as strong as an adult,
[9:15]I believe.
[9:16]It's just not as mature.
[9:19]That makes sense.
[9:19]There's still sharpening those tools.
[9:21]They have them all.
[9:22]Yes.
[9:23]Oh, there.
[9:24]And so I don't, I didn't want to kind of downplay her or make her less than.
[9:29]And so I put some care into giving her both that sharp adult view of the world.
[9:35]But yet to your way, you put it, the tool isn't quite as sharp as it's going to be.
[9:41]She's just in a case of people.
[9:44]She did such a great job with that.
[9:46]And also the relationship between Lettie and Alex and the ways that they both make themselves
[9:52]visible to each other and hide from each other.
[9:55]And then how that interacts with the rest of what's happening around them.
[9:59]It's just masterful.
[10:00]done. And to your earlier point when you were saying it's readable, it is readable. And that's
[10:06]the reason I was able to just go through it so quickly. And that's not a, yeah, I took your
[10:12]wonderful life work and read it super fast. But it was more just like, I wanted to keep
[10:16]trying the pages. And I love when I can read smooth like that. Your writing is very smooth,
[10:22]but also very thoughtful. So it was, I think it's going to be a great pool side rate.
[10:28]That's what we want. Yes. And that really was the mission of the book is the writing,
[10:35]you know, I'm a huge fan, you know, full disclosure. I think Leigh Ann Moriarty is amazing.
[10:41]So she is the writer of big little lies, perfect strangers. She, what she can do that I
[10:50]admire and want to emulate, honestly, is she can do so much with so little and it's really hard
[10:57]to do. I think with Stephen King who said, I would have written you, maybe it wasn't Stephen King,
[11:02]maybe I just am ascribing it to him. I don't know who said it, but I would have written you a shorter
[11:07]letter, but I didn't have time. It was kind of the, that's so true. It's really a tricky part of the
[11:15]craft to be able to express complex interpersonal relationships, dynamics, emotions and what have
[11:23]simply, quickly, effectively and to convey a lot with a little. And that always is impactful for
[11:30]for a reader. So that was a mission of mine in this book. And so I'm glad to hear that it
[11:36]seems like mission accomplished. I don't know if I want to say that, but it seems like you picked
[11:40]up on something that's very important to me as the writer. I'm so glad it was, I mean, it was obvious
[11:45]there on the page. And it's funny you say that because I did think this does have, I would recommend
[11:50]it to someone that liked big little lies because that's always my go to when somebody says
[11:55]recommend me a book. I'm like, well, tell me when you liked. And so I would completely put this in
[12:00]that wheelhouse. Yeah. And the other, the other piece I would say it's, it's almost combines big
[12:04]little lies with desperate housewives. It does have desperate housewives. Oh, man, I've been
[12:10]to watch that season when my first son was an infant. So I have very fond memories of desperate
[12:14]housewives. Oh, that's yeah. It's just this fun. It's just that tone, that hard tone. And you
[12:23]know, I'll give you a little, little background on how this book came to be. I don't remember
[12:27]that. Love it. Please do. Yes. That's great. So I have my editor, my editor, Jen, and I
[12:33]we usually brainstorm ideas like we'll get on the phone. We'll just talk about different
[12:40]ideas, different settings, different kind of kicking off points for a book. Sometimes it's a title.
[12:46]So sometimes she'll still suggest the title. In this case, Jen was talking about her neighborhood
[12:53]block parties. So where she loved the, you know, the barbecues and the long games and all that.
[13:01]And it reminded me of my childhood. So I grew up in that time when we got off the bus,
[13:08]went right home, got on our bikes, got together with our friends, rode around, played football in
[13:15]the backyard or other kind of, you know, hide and seek kind of games. And we would, we would gather
[13:21]on the street as, you know, a little neighborhood. There were all my best friends on the street.
[13:28]And we were just kind of a collective. And as a kid, it was idyllic. It was just fun. It was just
[13:34]what I knew. And then I'd come an adult. And I realized, oh, you know, I see my neighborhood
[13:40]differently now because I know what's happened to all those people. There was divorce. There was
[13:45]alcoholism. There was infidelity. There was all these llamas unfolding out of view behind the closed
[13:54]doors. And so when Jen mentioned the neighborhood block party and I thought about my own street,
[13:57]I thought, well, you know, this is, this is a great place to set to set up a story where where
[14:04]it's both the idyllic and the nostalgia that we all can connect with as well as these darker
[14:09]forces at play. And so that, that was kind of the, the kicking off point, if you will, for why I
[14:18]wrote the block party. And there was another piece to that that I was going to share with you. And then
[14:21]I got so, so caught up in my nostalgia in my own. I love it. Yes, forgot what it was, but
[14:28]loop back around. It'll be fine. You'll remember later. Yeah. Well, I love hearing that though about
[14:34]how people come up with ideas because especially for a novel that has always intimidated me like,
[14:39]how do you, how do you think of what you're going to write about? So just taking something like that
[14:44]that you, especially something where there's a disparity between what you see or what you see
[14:51]in what's actually happening like that delta right there. There's always so much in there that
[14:55]you can write about and explore. Yeah. I mean, for, for book bands or, you know, everybody
[15:02]listening to this is obviously a book fan, but for the writers that are also, you know, listening.
[15:07]The engine of a story is conflict without conflict. Your story just can't move forward. And so
[15:16]really what you're always looking to do is create relatable characters, but then
[15:23]interwee or the conflicts between them. And that is really how the story, you know, starts to take
[15:29]shape. So all of the characters in the book from the alcoholic mom to the rebellious teen daughter
[15:36]to the hyper competitive neighborhood dad to the, you know, the one everyone envies. All of these
[15:44]people have some kind of relatability to them. And then what you need to do as the writer is to
[15:48]find out where are the points of conflict? Where can we have the intersections come in? Where
[15:54]we can get the drum on? Yes. And that's when you start to get people turning the page. You think
[16:00]you want to know the answer to the, to the mystery. But really what you want to know is how do these
[16:06]little conflicts resolve? Because they're conflicts that I'm familiar with in my life.
[16:11]One hundred percent. I love that you use that word relatable because I never would have
[16:17]put my finger on it. That that's what you need in those characters. But especially in this
[16:22]arena, you know, you want of realistic fiction. You want to read and see your neighbors and
[16:28]people you might know in there. And that's I think what really makes it so compelling too is that
[16:34]it doesn't feel far off from the neighborhood, you know, right? If you know, if you want to write like
[16:40]I'm a big fan of Lee Child. Yes. And you know, I don't know if this will be out on video this
[16:48]conversation will be out on video, but you probably could guess that I don't look anything like
[16:53]Jack Reacher. I'm nothing like Jack Reacher. I'm like the anti Jack Reacher. But yet I can still
[17:00]relate to Jack Reacher, but on a, you know, it's more fantasy, right? It's aspirational. It's what
[17:06]you could imagine yourself to be. But in a book like this, if I put Jack Reacher in the neighborhood
[17:12]and I have your six foot five Goliath who can do it's superhuman feats, it's going to change
[17:20]how you relate to the story. So every single character, every single person has to be something
[17:25]that you can relate to. Even there's the relationship between Letty and the new boy who moves
[17:30]in across the street, Jay, where we all know that unapproachable and mysterious person that we
[17:37]want to get to know better that they have little hints of danger to them. And we're kind of
[17:43]eager to dip our toe in that water and see what happens. And those are those are the kinds of
[17:49]characters I love to write because that I just pulled from my own life and my own life experience.
[17:54]I, you know, I lived long enough to have had plenty of encounters with plenty of different
[17:59]kinds of people. So indeed, it shows too that, I mean, you're, to your point, like you said, you
[18:06]you know, as you get older, you have just a sense of all the different sorts of people that live
[18:10]in the world and have it it. And then understanding those that interplay, like Letty's sort of,
[18:17]you know, yeah, wants to dip our toe in there. And I will say also as a mom of teenagers,
[18:23]I was like, oh my gosh, make good choices everyone. Yeah, you, yeah, right. Like I still
[18:28]say that to my kids, I have 19 year old and I, you know, when he's leaving the house to drive to
[18:33]wherever I'm like, make good choices, make good choices. And just you can't help but still always
[18:39]feel like the parent. And I think at some point in that book, Letty kind of realized that that is,
[18:45]you know, her parents just care. Even if they do the wrong things, say the wrong things, act the wrong
[18:51]way, they are doing it. They're trying to do it from a place of love. So, you know, it's really
[18:57]at the end of the book. I want everyone to feel like you could have compassion pretty much for
[19:03]everybody. Yes, everybody there's some that you kind of can some less than others,
[19:11]some less than others. But yes, I, yes, you I think within this book, there's so many different
[19:17]characters to find compassion for and some of what you're surprising. And do you remember when
[19:22]you said we'd come around? Yes, I did. So, it would happen. Here we go. So, compassion. So,
[19:28]Jen talks about, uh, Jen and I mentioned, Jen mentions the block party. I like, okay, let's,
[19:34]let's create the dark, mix it in with the light really fun. This is around COVID time
[19:41]that we're having on having this conversation. COVID's pretty much still just everywhere.
[19:47]Right. I couldn't bring myself to write a dark story. Just didn't want to do it. I,
[19:54]I don't know. I kind of felt like there was a little guidance, but voice guiding me.
[20:00]saying to lighten the tone.
[20:03]And so that's really what I wanted to do with the book.
[20:07]So I wanted to combine the relatable characters,
[20:11]the nostalgia for kind of simpler days and simpler times,
[20:16]and then, you know, couple that with the behind the closed door stuff.
[20:19]So really the tone of the book, I think, is very important.
[20:23]And, you know, that's something I want readers to know.
[20:26]You know, you're not going to go into this,
[20:28]getting this kind of like,
[20:30]a pulse of feeling of dread,
[20:34]which is, you know, a lot of these darker thrillers.
[20:37]Like, there's the, you know, around any corner is your imminent demise.
[20:43]Like, I wanted it to feel more light and more kind of summary in that way.
[20:49]A little bit more of a summer breeze,
[20:51]but that hint of menace was always there.
[20:54]And I think that's what Leigh Ann does beautifully as well.
[20:57]And in her, in her books, there's just kind of an undercurrent of menace.
[21:00]But yet you never felt like you left the,
[21:03]the breezy world of the privileged parents trying to guide their young
[21:08]progeny through, you know, grammar school or whatever.
[21:12]It's so true.
[21:13]Big little lies.
[21:15]You're exactly right, though.
[21:16]I never even thought about that.
[21:17]But I think this, uh, I think this book,
[21:20]I, for certain books, if they are too dark,
[21:24]it's too stressful for me.
[21:25]Right?
[21:26]Like, you just can't.
[21:28]And you're exactly right that after COVID,
[21:30]I think, you know, we've seen an explosion in romance.
[21:33]And we've seen just people on me.
[21:34]Mom comes.
[21:35]Yes.
[21:36]They're everywhere.
[21:36]Yeah.
[21:37]So I actually think this book is straddles the world of rom-com and suspense.
[21:44]Yes.
[21:46]And I don't know if there's a lot of books like that out there.
[21:50]And I'd be fine if I, if I, if it starts a trend, like,
[21:54]let's go.
[21:54]Let's give more of these books out there.
[21:56]Yes.
[21:57]Cause it gives the, I think the thing that I really liked about it was its depth.
[22:04]And I think just kind of looping back around,
[22:06]we were talking about the lives of teenagers.
[22:08]But that's something you did so well because the characters really do feel
[22:13]very, not only relatable, but believable.
[22:15]I, I believe that what they're doing makes sense to who they are.
[22:20]Whether or not I want them to do that because
[22:23]I want them to make different choices sometimes.
[22:25]But that's just how I read a book like a weird control freak.
[22:29]Right.
[22:29]And the tricky, uh, thank you, by the way.
[22:32]Of course.
[22:32]A tricky, a tricky thing with this particular novel is there's not
[22:36]three characters.
[22:37]This is a neighborhood.
[22:39]Yep.
[22:40]Well, we've got, we are at the end of a cul-de-sac.
[22:43]So we have house one, house two, house three, house four.
[22:46]I mean, I think there could be 15, 15 characters.
[22:50]And they all play an important role in the story.
[22:54]And it's a multi-layered role that some of them, some of them play.
[23:00]So that's, you know, to be able to keep the plot going,
[23:06]advance the story and deliver all these characters, but still have them be relatable and yet
[23:12]distinct enough that you can remember them.
[23:14]And you can, that's where it gets to be.
[23:16]That's a little, that was tricky.
[23:18]I have to say, like, it was a big bite of the apple that I took.
[23:21]And I just, there were moments.
[23:23]Why is writing it where I'm chewing on the apple.
[23:26]It was too big a bite.
[23:27]It's too big a bite.
[23:29]I love that game.
[23:30]When I'm sitting in front of the computer thing,
[23:32]this is never going to work.
[23:34]Right.
[23:36]You just, it's kind of go, how am I going to,
[23:39]yeah, how am I going to put this up?
[23:42]Yeah.
[23:42]And you know, it's one of those books also where it goes back in time.
[23:46]Yes.
[23:47]And so that is something that, and not only goes back in time,
[23:50]but I think it's a, it's a year, it's a year.
[23:54]We do it every year.
[23:55]An entire year, I, I really like how you sectioned the book though.
[24:00]It made it really easy to track because otherwise,
[24:04]I think that really would have gotten confusing because we're talking about a memorial day block
[24:07]party and then we're going back.
[24:10]And I also really liked how you used the community message boards.
[24:15]Those really made me laugh.
[24:16]And they were perfect.
[24:18]They were perfectly placed where they were.
[24:20]So you have it divided into the seasons.
[24:22]I did it by season.
[24:25]But I think that also the message boards that are in there and everything.
[24:28]I just, it was a delight to read.
[24:30]Oh, yeah.
[24:31]So fun.
[24:32]Thank you.
[24:32]So let's talk about those because
[24:34]Yeah, I want to hear.
[24:35]Those were great from, from, you know, and I don't mean that as like,
[24:39]oh, you know, I'm so great.
[24:42]The community message boards.
[24:43]I mean, you are, but still I'm.
[24:45]Community message boards are great.
[24:47]They're incredible.
[24:49]Like if you, so Mary Higgins Clark once said, and I, I've taken this to heart.
[24:54]Like she, she said, if you're a crime writer and you don't read the New York Post,
[24:59]you're not doing your job.
[25:01]And I'm like, I'm down with, I have a literary exterior, but a, a tabloid heart.
[25:08]I mean, it's what I love.
[25:11]I am endlessly fascinated by people and endlessly fascinated by their choices,
[25:17]by their words, by how they defend themselves, by how they attack,
[25:22]by how they retreat.
[25:23]Like all of it just, it's endlessly amusing to me.
[25:26]So I'll go on community boards just in my town and just read.
[25:30]I don't, I'm like a lurker.
[25:32]I'm lurking.
[25:33]Oh, I love it.
[25:34]Yep.
[25:34]Yeah, I'm like, oh, and gee, and there was a time where I admit, I fully admit,
[25:40]I'm making a confession.
[25:42]I engaged.
[25:44]I was out there.
[25:45]I would see you wearing my opinion out there just like these.
[25:48]And I am reformed, it has been, I don't even know how many months since my last post,
[25:54]but it, I am out of the game of engaging, but I have not lost my love of reading these people.
[26:03]So the point, so what I realized I had to do, there was a couple of things that was,
[26:08]that were happening.
[26:09]One is, I'm going back, I'm doing a year in order to do, to keep a story going over a year.
[26:15]So okay, the seasons are, it seemed like a very natural way to divide our time.
[26:20]We're all familiar with, you know, how the seasons,
[26:23]determine our actions, our behaviors, our events, our happenings.
[26:27]And so I could build a world around the changing of the seasons.
[26:31]But then I realized, hey, you know, there's the book starts and I'll give this,
[26:35]this way, the book starts with a murder is very clear or a crime.
[26:40]We should say crime, yes, crime.
[26:41]And then we soon find out right after it's a homicide in a sleepy little place called
[26:48]Meadowbrook, Massachusetts.
[26:52]Now Meadowbrook does not exist is there is no town on Google Maps called Meadowbrook, Massachusetts.
[27:00]So, and I did that because I really wanted this to be everywhere, everywhere USA.
[27:05]And I knew as we were going through the season, the different seasons that we were going to lose
[27:10]sight of the fact that a crime is taking place.
[27:13]And that's a really big part of the plot of the books that keep coming back to the crime.
[27:19]And so the community forums started to function as my Greek chorus.
[27:25]And they were the, they were the ways that I could kind of bring you back into, hey, it's a crime,
[27:31]hey, something terrible has happened.
[27:33]Let's not forget about why we're, why we're here.
[27:38]Let's, let's, why we're here.
[27:40]But then they gave me an opportunity to, to show the interplay between just kind of
[27:46]our friends and neighbors.
[27:47]So a little bit more of that relatability.
[27:49]So we have just, you know, the, the antagonist, the gossip, the, you know, completely out in
[27:56]left field, not following the conversation person, you know, and so we kind of have all these
[28:02]different characters who are really characters that we're familiar with from our own community
[28:07]forums.
[28:08]So that, that really adds to the idea that this story could take place in your town.
[28:13]And that's kind of what I wanted as well from the books.
[28:17]The, the forms of super important.
[28:20]I really am appreciating hearing all this because it's so satisfying.
[28:25]It's so readable.
[28:26]And that is because of all the thought and intention that you had behind it and that you've put
[28:32]into it.
[28:32]So listening to you talk about really the art of storytelling is so fascinating for me.
[28:39]I'm just loving hearing about this.
[28:42]That's the joy for me because how, how I can capture a reader and, and, and make them fall in love
[28:54]with the story, it's just such a magic trick.
[28:58]It's just endless, it's just full of endless possibility and, and the thought that has to go into
[29:05]every word and every, every, every paragraph and every scene and how it all has to weave
[29:12]together and then how it all has to make sense in the end and how it had, you have to keep
[29:17]turning the pages.
[29:17]And I, you know, back to any writers out there, listen to this, you know, you, you have to remember
[29:23]you're asking somebody to spend six, seven hours with you.
[29:26]I don't know why I took you to read the book, but it's not like watching a movie.
[29:32]No, that's more like you're, you're binging at least half the season of something.
[29:37]Yeah, 100%.
[29:38]And that's a lot of, of ask.
[29:40]I mean, I, I have a hard time making breakfast doing the laundry, getting to the gym, getting to
[29:45]my computer, walking the dog, my baseball.
[29:49]Yes.
[29:49]And so I just always remember, I'm asking a lot of you, the reader.
[29:54]So I'm not going to, I'm, I'm always going to keep that front and center.
[29:57]I was on, as I'm going through my day and my work to say, out.
[30:00]I make this work for you. How do I make this work for you?
[30:04]That's really neat to hear about the way that you keep the reader in mind.
[30:08]That's a really lovely sentiment.
[30:11]And you're right for writers out there. It's an important one as well.
[30:15]I mean, it's just that's a good way to keep centered on why am I, what am I trying to do here?
[30:21]Right. And it allows the other thing it allows you to do is it is a phrase in the right
[30:25]community called Kill Your Darwin's. And it's really about when you love something.
[30:32]And somebody says, hey, this isn't working. Can you let it go? Or you fall in love with a
[30:38]character and you have to kill the character. I guess that was always the intended meaning of it
[30:43]was written. Somebody you love so much. Now you have to kill them. But I've always looked at it like
[30:49]I will wipe out what I've done if there's a better way to do it. If somebody can show me a better way
[30:54]to do it, I'm down. And so that's that's the commercial fiction writer in me, the one who's
[31:01]willing to say, you know, it's not about me. It's about reader. And whatever it takes to deliver
[31:09]for the reader is what I'm going to do. So I have my trusted circle. I have my advisors, my proof
[31:13]readers, my editor, these are the people I go to. And when they tell me, this isn't working,
[31:20]this is what I think wouldn't work better. I listen to what they say. And then I can figure out,
[31:26]okay, how can I actually implement it? That's kind of my, that's the rewriting work. Writing is
[31:32]rewriting. Yes. That's such a good way to think of it kind of practicing the art of non attachment
[31:38]with that where it's just if I can be it's creator and also the person who releases it to be
[31:46]whatever it's meant to be, right? Right. I mean, no, no, it's no wonder there are so many
[31:50]parenting metaphors about books too, because it is or child metaphors, I think, because it is so
[31:56]true. Right. There are so much and then they're going to go hopefully live their lives and maybe
[32:00]call us. Oh, well, my book calls me. I might need some additional help. I'm hoping that doesn't
[32:07]happen. But yes, in my kids, I do want my kids to call me. But but once I've once I've come,
[32:14]you know, released the book, once my editor says, okay, you're this is this is good and we're,
[32:20]it's not money anymore. It belongs to some other thing. And I just let it go. I don't own it. And
[32:28]I just always want to do, I just always want to do the best I can for the reader for the reader
[32:33]for the reader. And in this case, I'm looking for readers who want to be entertained,
[32:40]enthralled, invested, and ultimately surprised. Well, I cannot wait for everyone to read the block
[32:48]party so that I can talk to them about it. And thank you for this time. This was such a thoughtful,
[32:54]valuable conversation. I know it's going to stay with me. So thank you.
[32:57]Oh, well, such a pleasure. I really enjoyed it. And thank you everybody for your time and
[33:03]attaching means of time to me. So thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms. Don't
[33:09]have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms. Don't
[33:14]have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual
[33:19]book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan
[33:23]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[33:28]this fantastic intro and outro music.