Sarah Ezrin, THE YOGA OF PARENTING: Ten Yoga-Based Practices to Help You Stay Grounded, Connect with Your Kids, and Be Kind to Yourself
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Sarah Esrin is the author of the yoga of parenting 10 yoga-based practices to help you
[1:08]stay grounded, connect with your kids, and be kind to yourself.
[1:11]This episode has been guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of the upcoming Zippy Books title
[1:18]Everyone But Myself and host of the Esque Library and podcast.
[1:22]Sarah Esrin is an author, world-known yoga educator, content creator, and mama based in the
[1:28]San Francisco Bay area.
[1:30]Sarah loves guiding people along their wellness and parented journeys.
[1:33]Her words, classes and social media are supportive, healing spaces where people can feel
[1:37]seen and heard.
[1:39]Sarah, welcome to mom's Don't Have Time Treat books.
[1:41]I'm so happy you're here today.
[1:43]I'm so happy.
[1:44]Thank you for you, Julie.
[1:45]And thank you for Zippy, for having me.
[1:47]It is an honor to be here in this crew.
[1:49]I love all of your friendships and the circle of writers that is Zippy Books.
[1:54]So it's always an honor to be involved in any way I can.
[1:57]Oh, yay.
[1:58]Yes, it is a pretty good girl gang at the moment, right?
[2:02]There will be some men in there eventually.
[2:03]But no, it's a gift.
[2:05]It's so fun.
[2:06]Well, we're here today.
[2:07]We're talking about your book, The Yoga of Parenting, 10 yoga-based practices to help
[2:12]you stay grounded, connect with your kids, and be kind to yourself.
[2:18]I love just the design of the book, honestly.
[2:22]I'm such a, like, judge a book by its cover person, which I'm sure is terrible.
[2:25]But I love the design of this.
[2:28]And honestly, when I read the description and the introduction, I just exhaled.
[2:34]This book has such a beautiful tone to it.
[2:38]I think you did such a wonderful job with just the way that you designed it and the way
[2:45]that it feels.
[2:46]So congratulations.
[2:47]I'm so glad it's out in the world.
[2:49]Thank you.
[2:50]That's very sweet.
[2:51]I wish I could take credit for the design.
[2:52]But as a first-time writer, I was given three samples, the three reel.
[2:57]And I was like, the yoga pose will be up in this corner or down in this corner.
[3:01]It will be pink or it will be this.
[3:04]But I did send them some of my mood boards, if you will.
[3:09]But I, you know what?
[3:10]It's kind of amazing.
[3:11]And you know, you've got your book coming out soon, too.
[3:14]How the book, like, what it originally was versus what it became and then when it, how
[3:18]it came back to it and even that subtitle, which was like the bane of my existence.
[3:23]And literally, like, like, it tortured me at night, I would have nightmares.
[3:27]And then when we figured it out, it was like, oh, this is it.
[3:31]It was just like light bulbs and, you know, so for all the listening writers out there
[3:36]that are struggling with a cover or subtitle, trust the process.
[3:41]That's my advice.
[3:42]Sometimes the universe is just like, you know, it's manifesting it in the perfect way.
[3:47]So thank you.
[3:48]You are totally speaking to my heart there because I can't tell you how many times I've
[3:53]woken up in the middle of the night, thinking about some random detail.
[3:58]But subtitles are also, I've been in subtitle hell and it's not a place I want to go
[4:03]to anytime soon.
[4:04]Like, there's nothing that you can grind like that where you're just, I mean, you could
[4:09]think about it for years.
[4:11]It's the worst.
[4:12]And my editor was literally like, you know, because I'm a first-time author as well.
[4:16]And she was like, you know, some subtitles are easy and some are just theirs.
[4:21]And I like, that was all she sent me.
[4:22]And I'm like, okay, so I assume that I'm searching and flatter.
[4:26]And then I would get, you know, it was like 30 different, anyway, you know, it's like, or
[4:30]you would be a sentence, but then there'd be like a slash, so it's like, you know, way
[4:34]to be kind, compassionate, caring, like, you know, I was like, insert this word here.
[4:38]It was like, it was like, mad libs, you know, I'm maddening mad libs, but then we got it, you
[4:43]know, we got it.
[4:44]And when it hit, it really hit and it was like, oh, this is everything it was meant
[4:49]to be.
[4:50]I found it.
[4:51]Did you feel in those times, I think, you know, because it's your first rodeo and all
[4:57]these things, how was that process for you?
[5:00]Because I feel like sometimes the details, like the subtitle, nobody in your life, at
[5:05]least in my experience cares.
[5:07]And Iota as much as you care and the team cares about what you're doing, right?
[5:12]Like my husband's like, I really don't want to talk about this anymore with you.
[5:18]So did you find, how did you find that for you?
[5:22]Because this is your first book.
[5:23]I mean, how did you, how did you find that process?
[5:27]Did it feel lonely?
[5:28]Did it feel okay?
[5:29]Did it feel, was it all of it?
[5:31]I mean, what was that experience like?
[5:33]Well, I prefer, very first thing I did before I even wrote the book when I decided like
[5:37]this, it's time.
[5:38]It's finally time to write a book because I'd been wanting to write literally.
[5:41]I've been writing books like that were like, you know, teen thrillers when I was 16,
[5:46]you know, not even.
[5:47]I was definitely not writing at 16.
[5:48]I was probably 12 writing about 16 year olds.
[5:51]But you know, I've been trying and I've been writing for different outlets and publications.
[5:55]But when it came time to actually write the book, the idea for the book came from this
[6:01]idea and energy of collaboration.
[6:03]So it was it was born out of, you know, I've been so hyper independent my whole life.
[6:08]And I'm like, you can do this alone that like I had as a mom, it was really becoming
[6:12]a mother for the first time that, you know, with my first son that I realized, no, you
[6:16]can't do anything alone.
[6:18]And like if I'm going to write a book, oh, I need other moms.
[6:21]I need other parents.
[6:23]That's how I'm going to write it.
[6:24]So before I even began, I went to every small person I ever met in my life that had ever
[6:31]written a book or was involved in publishing somehow, Jen was, you know, who wrote my
[6:35]forward.
[6:36]And it's like, obviously like one of my most successful friends that I was like, what
[6:40]do I do?
[6:41]Where do I begin?
[6:42]But I mean, I literally I called everybody and everything.
[6:45]So not that I knew about, you know, certain steps along the way, but some of the process
[6:49]was revealed to me.
[6:50]Also, my sister used to be in publishing.
[6:52]Oh, okay.
[6:53]Then he lifetimes ago, she worked for Penguin when it was Penguin Putnam.
[6:57]And so she, you know, she was a little bit helpful, but, you know, again, it's like the
[7:01]same thing with, you know, the, your closest family doesn't care.
[7:03]Yes.
[7:04]They don't want to read another version of your manuscript, but yeah, you know, I think
[7:09]family wise, immediate family wise, like no expectations, but they have any interest.
[7:14]You follow Sarah Peterson, who writes in pursuit of counter clean countertops.
[7:18]She's a sub stack writer and she's a journalist.
[7:21]Yes.
[7:22]I was just turned on to her recently.
[7:24]I do phenomenal.
[7:25]And everything, please immediately go follow her.
[7:27]She wrote mom fluenced, but she did like a, you know, autopsy of like what it's been
[7:32]like a month after writing the book.
[7:34]And then she's like to everybody in the world, it's just a book.
[7:38]But to you, it's like you've climbed Mount Everest and it's like the pinnacle and it's
[7:42]everything.
[7:43]You know, I like, I wanted to like tell like the cashier at, you know, the supermarket.
[7:47]I'm like, I wrote about like just talking and I'm walking by, you know, and like no,
[7:50]so immediate family could care less, go to other authors for that support.
[7:55]They are the ones that are going to be there with you and have like an offer that you
[7:59]can text that is, that whose book is also coming out around the same time.
[8:03]Yes.
[8:04]Yes.
[8:05]And be like, I can't believe this is happening, why this happening, but yeah, it's quite,
[8:10]it's an interesting process.
[8:11]And then at the writing, because you're alone for so much of it.
[8:13]And then there's so much, let's collaboration.
[8:15]And yeah, it's definitely, it's been a very long and interesting journey.
[8:21]It's so true.
[8:22]And I'm glad you had some vision into it beforehand.
[8:25]I feel like I skipped into the whole situation like just bright-eyed and bushy-tailed
[8:30]and this is going to be great, which is, it's great.
[8:34]And it's also this just crazy, you just don't know what you don't know until you're
[8:39]in it.
[8:40]And then all of a sudden it's, yeah, trying to keep your, I'm sure you had, but I'm sure
[8:44]for you, it was all like calm and collected because you were just practicing yoga the
[8:49]whole time.
[8:50]And there was just, I mean, that's what the book's about, right?
[8:53]You buy my book and you'll be totally calm too.
[8:55]No, oh my goodness.
[8:57]No, no, no, no, no, no, that is a, it was, okay.
[9:01]So first of all, I was, I got pregnant, like I signed my book deal and I got pregnant
[9:07]within the same week and my book was due when my second son was due.
[9:11]And I was like, this is not good timing.
[9:14]And we were even like, we were just, you know, and it was like, it was kind of like,
[9:18]okay, let's try.
[9:19]Let's see what happens.
[9:20]Yeah.
[9:21]Which, you know, I had had it yet, anyway, it's a, and somehow he, it was due in April,
[9:27]he was due in April.
[9:28]And then I had an HD pregnancy, which is Hyper-MSS Gravidarium, which, you know, means
[9:33]you're basically vomiting or nauseous all day long, the entire pregnancy.
[9:38]I was hospitalized twice with it.
[9:40]And, but for some reason, in the morning, between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m. most mornings, most
[9:46]mornings, not every morning, but many mornings, I felt okay.
[9:50]I don't know.
[9:51]I was like the one time of day that I was like, I could get up and maybe it was just adrenaline.
[9:56]But I somehow managed to do.
[10:00]right and do my edits. And then the rest of the day would be me either like laying down
[10:05]for most of the day or just dragging myself through playgrounds with my toddler, you know,
[10:10]who's young at the times, you know, two and a half. But yeah, it was an interesting,
[10:14]so there was like all these other psychological layers that were going on too, you know, and like,
[10:20]yeah, it was it was an interesting process, but I wouldn't have had it any other way. So
[10:25]you know, sometimes I think too, especially when you're writing a book like this,
[10:30]that sort of when you are in the fire of it, like, I think the tone when I was talking about
[10:36]like the design of your book, it's very calming and beautiful, which is, but the tone of your writing
[10:41]is what really makes this book a gift. I think it's going to be such a valuable resource for all
[10:47]parents and also even parents of older kids. Like, I think there are principles in this book that
[10:52]would also apply to people that, you know, don't have biological children because we're all
[10:57]mothering and fathering and caring for people in so many ways. But all that to say, I think that
[11:04]sometimes you get that tone because you are truly in it where you were really having probably,
[11:13]I'm imagining to cling to the things that you need to be true to pull you through that time and
[11:18]to, you know, to get through that because that's so stressful. And also just being pregnant the
[11:24]second time is such a different experience anyway, right? The first time you're like, and special,
[11:28]and you need to be cute. No, and then the second time, no, I did like a maternity, I did three
[11:35]maternity shoots, three maternity shoots with my first one. Okay. The second one, I'm like, I like
[11:42]still in the leading content. Like, I just, I mean, there was like pictures of me and like, my
[11:47]husband's sweatshirt, like the same sweatpants I've been wearing for days, rings around my eyes,
[11:53]you know, because I was so dehydrated. It was no, it was not. And I, baby, that's what you're
[11:57]sensing in the book too. It's like, I wanted a book that gave permission and I was so tired.
[12:02]While reading it, I was like, you can try this or not. We're just don't do it.
[12:09]Just, you know, figure it out on your own. That's basically what the book is.
[12:14]Oh, I'm in a very loving and yoga way. That is, that is the path, right? The path really
[12:20]is about finding your own intuition and listening to your inner needs and listening to what
[12:26]your deeper calls are. And sometimes it's, it's those moments. It's often, you know, pregnancy or
[12:32]early days of postpartum, where it cuts through all this, all the noise. You don't even have
[12:37]the energy to people, please, or to push yourself and get super clear on what it is that you need.
[12:43]And that is what the yoga practice, you know, provides us, but without having to be, you know,
[12:49]one of those gauntlet moments, it could just be like a Saturday and you could tap into your
[12:53]intuition. Yes, you could just tap into it without all the suffering, but sometimes that's just
[12:59]the way it rolls. You're exactly right. I love that you're saying that, no, the permission of it.
[13:04]You could try this or you don't have to. Like, I think, but you say it, I think what you say here,
[13:09]too, though, is that, you know, you already have everything you need. And that's such a freeing
[13:14]message for people because I think parenting is the, it's a wonderful gift. It's a wild ride.
[13:22]It's all of these things, but it is so extreme. And then we live in a culture and a time where
[13:30]it's just, there's so much information. And it's, you can't, especially if you're at all an
[13:36]achiever or someone who's, you know, trying to do things the right way. And I fall into that
[13:42]category. It can be a really toxic situation because you're just always taking in, always putting
[13:48]pressure to do more as opposed to what you're really talking about here, which is you have what
[13:53]you need. You just have to be connected to it. Yeah, and connected to your kids too, as opposed to
[13:59]looking for looking at all these third parties for the answers, which is understandable when you're
[14:04]a new parent. And, you know, like you said, like an A type or a people pleaser or, you know,
[14:09]and again, I'm speaking for my own, you know, this is about me, you know, being highly anxious and
[14:15]always wanting to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So you're constantly looking out of yourself
[14:19]for those answers and whether that's other parenting books or what you see modeled in the media,
[14:24]you know, which we know is, is, you know, mostly curated. And, you know, or you're in laws or, you
[14:31]know, if you're, you know, my, my mom passed, but I, I imagine, you know, I would feel pressure
[14:35]from her, right? If she was around and, you know, like had an opinion about something because you
[14:39]put your own parent on a pedestal, but at the end of the day when we get quiet, we know
[14:45]the answer. And sometimes we don't sometimes, like, you know, when there is no solution, there's
[14:49]no solution. And that's usually the time that you need to sit with it even longer or an obviously
[14:54]go to experts, you know, to get guidance and to get clear. But the solution will arise, right? It
[14:59]will start to show itself to you. And that's just that continual connection to yourself, to your
[15:05]to your kid, to the moment, and to get clear on like, okay, what do we, what is, what is needed right
[15:10]now as a family as opposed to like, what does the world want from me right now? Oh my gosh. So let's
[15:16]back up a little bit and talk about you. Okay, so you would always want to try to book. You were
[15:22]graduating, obviously, from the teen thrillers that you were writing in, you know, a journal somewhere,
[15:28]but yeah, what? So when you came to this, you thought, okay, this, how did you choose to write about
[15:35]the yoga of parenting as opposed to the yoga of something else in our lives? What was what was
[15:41]this source for you there? It was a random shower moment, believe it or not, which sounds so
[15:47]cliche, you know. But like, you know, I'd always had the goal to write a book, as I said, but you know,
[15:53]I think my ego was leading the goal as opposed to my experience. So when I first started to teach
[15:59]yoga, I was like, I'm going to be on the cover of magazine and I'm going to write a book, you know,
[16:04]and that's because that's what the superstar teachers were doing that were, you know, paving the
[16:09]way for us newer teachers. So it was always a goal because it seemed, it seemed like that's what
[16:15]you had to do. And then obviously, many years went by many, you know, no show classes and, you know,
[16:21]really wild retreats and really amazing relationships and, you know, classes of hundreds of
[16:27]people. And, you know, all this time I'm by teaching all these different people and seeing all the
[16:31]people come in and out of my classes. And I, my last mentorship group when I was in LA was mostly
[16:38]parents. And I remember I was leading like a business of yoga lecture with them. And I was like,
[16:43]you know, what gets you out of bed in the morning? And I was thinking the answer was going to be
[16:46]like, you know, teaching my students. Everybody was talking about their kids. And it didn't
[16:51]fully click for me. I wasn't really ready to admit that I wanted to have kids that had a lot of
[16:57]loss. And so it wasn't like, it just wasn't matching. It just wasn't matching for a long time.
[17:04]And then when I got pregnant, it was like, it's just one of those things. Like,
[17:09]and it goes back to like finding the right book cover or the right subtitle. It's like
[17:13]these things happen in your life. And it's like all the paths tend to open. And my last day
[17:19]before I left from maternity leave, a student said, everything you choose crying, everything you say
[17:24]to us on the mat, you're going to a part in your parenting. And I didn't really understand it at
[17:30]the time. It was still very disconnected. You know, I was still thinking career means a type yoga,
[17:35]you know, like right in anatomy book or something. You know, right about the business of yoga.
[17:39]Like, none of it was like convalescing yet until I had a really intense postpartum period with my
[17:45]first and then we all went into COVID. And, you know, when things just got so challenging that
[17:51]I realized, oh my gosh, it's the bridging together of these two things. That's what's missing.
[17:56]And it was just this like aha moment, you know, like where's the yoga of parenting?
[18:00]You share in the book early on that your childhood had some stresses and challenges and
[18:08]that there was addiction and alcoholism that was happening around you.
[18:13]Was that so when you became a parent, has that come up for you in ways? I mean, how do you,
[18:20]how has that time in your life and your childhood shaped where you are now as a parent?
[18:26]Well, I am coming up on my two year anniversary of being an Alonon member. So Alonon is for children,
[18:33]family, friends, spouses of alcoholics. Yeah. And that was because there was a one of my family
[18:38]members had a relapse and it just it reignited, you know, me going into doing the work on my own.
[18:45]So that has been incredibly informative in my parenting because so much of Alonon
[18:51]is, you know, holding the space, loving your loved ones, but also giving them the dignity of
[18:56]their own experience and, you know, trusting that they are on their own path. And, you know, as a mom
[19:03]that's like so much of those lessons, right? I mean, obviously it's very different when you're
[19:08]talking about someone's addiction and, you know, like trusting that they're going to hit bottom
[19:14]and or they're going to have the experience they're going to have is very different than like
[19:18]my toddler like scaling a wall, but there are similarities to that, which is like be the boundary
[19:23]be there on the side, you know, be there with love, be ready to step in if absolutely necessary,
[19:29]but also at the same time, like leave them space to live their lives because as someone that grew
[19:36]up in a household with alcoholics and addicts, I try to control everything. Everything was so
[19:41]uncertain and out of control that my, my disease, my addiction, if you will, is that I need to control
[19:49]everything. And that includes, you know, what my kids are wearing, what they're eating, where
[19:52]they're going, what, you know, who they're talking to my life entirely when I'm when I'm going to
[19:57]write my book when I'm going to do this, right? I mean, I was controlled.
[20:00]rolling my career before I had even taught
[20:02]like an actual yoga class.
[20:04]So that has been the most freeing process for me
[20:08]because it's just this idea,
[20:10]surrender gets up bad words,
[20:12]considered a bad word sometimes.
[20:14]But it is, it's like it's a letting go in a trusting
[20:16]and I'm not like turning my back on anything, right?
[20:19]It's just simply like stepping back with my arms open
[20:22]so that I'm there if necessary.
[20:24]And that's been incredibly healing
[20:27]for both my relationship with my family members
[20:30]but also it's been a really cool approach
[20:33]to my parenting too.
[20:35]Yeah, that is beautiful to hear.
[20:37]I also am a control addict for sure.
[20:41]And being able to,
[20:43]I will say that that is one of the great things
[20:46]and the hard things, obviously,
[20:48]about watching the kids grow
[20:49]because mine are teenagers now
[20:51]and you really do have a sense of you do not belong to me.
[20:56]You are not mine to keep in that way.
[20:59]And so how do I allow you to walk your path
[21:05]and not make it about me?
[21:07]I mean, there's just so much that's tangled there.
[21:09]So it sounds like you've done a lot of work
[21:12]toward untangling those
[21:15]and that that benefits your parenting too.
[21:17]Yeah, I mean, and again,
[21:18]like let's talk in 10 years, you know,
[21:20]when they are like, you know, getting into cars
[21:22]and starting to drive.
[21:24]But I hope I'll just continue to work, you know,
[21:27]that program and continue to do the work on my own
[21:30]and trust, you know, trust what I can.
[21:32]And you know, but yeah, I mean,
[21:34]the other thing is that like my husband's side
[21:37]has a lot of addicts and alcoholics too.
[21:40]So it's going to be a conversation
[21:41]we're gonna have to have with our kids, you know,
[21:43]quite early, you know, and many people in my family
[21:47]are very open with their recovery.
[21:49]Thankfully, you know, a lot of people in my husband's family
[21:52]are as well.
[21:53]So it informs our every day.
[21:56]I mean, we see it in our own behaviors.
[21:57]Like, you know, I like, of course,
[21:59]I'm trying not to project it on my one-year-old, you know?
[22:01]I'm like, he's addicted to my move, you know?
[22:03]Like, he's like, he's addicted to it, you know?
[22:06]And it's like, no, you have no idea, you know?
[22:09]Or if like, if I give him this and then, you know,
[22:11]he's always gonna seek the quick response
[22:14]and like, you know, if I give him time
[22:16]and all right now when he has his tooth hurt,
[22:18]does that mean he's gonna go for medication?
[22:20]I mean, it's always kind of there in my brain.
[22:22]But the reality is, is like, you know,
[22:24]their paths have so many different forks
[22:27]and directions that they can go.
[22:29]And I just have to trust that I am walking side by side
[22:33]with them to a point.
[22:34]And then at a certain point, like you said,
[22:36]they're going to have to take their own path.
[22:38]And I will continue walking near them by them.
[22:40]I'm there if they need me, but I have to trust
[22:43]that they're on their own path.
[22:44]And thank goodness for programs like Allen on, therapy,
[22:48]you know, all those things to help with that.
[22:50]I love what you talk about here with the connection
[22:53]that we can take ourselves out of mix
[22:55]and be more connected to our kids.
[22:57]So I think you did a beautiful job of expressing that.
[23:00]So tell me this.
[23:01]But real quick, I think it's, yeah.
[23:03]We also have to honor the disconnection too, right?
[23:05]Like, so I want to make sure that we're not connected.
[23:08]You can't be connected 24 seven.
[23:10]It's an impossibility.
[23:12]And you need to have your own role as a human being
[23:15]and as an individual.
[23:16]And that's what, that's the beauty of the yoga lessons,
[23:20]right, is that we get to feel both
[23:22]how interconnected and interdependent we all are.
[23:24]But at the same time honor who we are as individuals.
[23:27]So, you know, yes, there is that deep connection,
[23:30]but there's also, it's also important
[23:31]to disconnect at times too, right?
[23:33]Like, you know.
[23:34]I'm glad that you're saying that
[23:35]because I'm thinking back to what I just said
[23:37]and it really did sound like I'm a stalker parent
[23:41]and you know what I'm talking about right?
[23:43]No, but it's true.
[23:44]I think there is this sort of like,
[23:46]that was a pitfall for me
[23:48]that they, they're not my products.
[23:51]They're not, they're not who I am.
[23:52]They're not everything.
[23:53]Like, I have to be a full person myself
[23:56]in order to be, to have that connection with them.
[24:00]Because otherwise, I'm looking to them
[24:02]for that kind of affirmation.
[24:03]You know what I mean?
[24:04]Like, I don't ever want my stuff to be their problem.
[24:07]So, but you're right.
[24:09]That's, that's a very good point.
[24:11]And I know for me with the control aspect,
[24:13]the disconnection can be hard to
[24:15]where accepting that there will be times of disconnection.
[24:19]I'm not great with that.
[24:21]So, I'll just jot that down to my therapist about Kim.
[24:26]She's lovely.
[24:27]As we're talking about this, my baby just woke up
[24:29]in the back room and I know my husband hasn't, right?
[24:31]But it's like everything inside of me is like,
[24:34]wants to check the, the, down it, you know, and see.
[24:38]And you know, you want to be,
[24:39]so you want to be controlling.
[24:40]It's me okay.
[24:41]Is everything okay?
[24:41]I mean, and then that's just in the simplest of ways,
[24:44]but that it's okay, right?
[24:45]Because now, you know, just for this example,
[24:47]like they're gonna have this wonderful bonding time
[24:49]together for that, you know, half hour or however long.
[24:52]And, you know, I think, or like I went away recently
[24:56]with just the baby and left my toddler
[24:58]in my husband at home.
[24:59]And that was very challenging, you know,
[25:01]not being here in the day to day.
[25:03]And, but at the same time, like again, that disconnection,
[25:05]it made my relationship with my toddler that much stronger.
[25:08]Cause I came home and we were just so much more appreciative.
[25:11]Him and his dad got to bond in these really beautiful ways.
[25:14]Yes. Those are even simple disconnections, right?
[25:16]I mean, you know, we're not even talking about
[25:18]like getting into a fight and having that disconnection.
[25:21]Yes. Which can then also bring you closer together.
[25:23]But it's that ebb and flow again, right?
[25:25]It's like connect, disconnect or, you know,
[25:27]disconnect, connect, expand, contract.
[25:29]And it's all just that living breathing thing
[25:32]that is being in relationship and living in this world.
[25:34]Yes. Well, and you talk about a little bit later
[25:37]in the book, the push and the striving
[25:40]and that you had a teacher that talked about pulling back 20%.
[25:44]And I loved that in relation to that parenting idea,
[25:47]just like you're saying where we're sort of trying too hard
[25:52]to control it, to be there, to connect.
[25:55]And then then your sensitivity is dulled
[25:57]because your effort is so intense.
[26:00]So you give, I mean, there are hundreds of nuggets like that
[26:04]in this book that I will be going back to,
[26:06]even as a parent of teens, and especially as a parent of teens,
[26:09]because talk about a game of connect and disconnect.
[26:12]Like you cannot force them to want to get in it with you.
[26:16]You know, when they, yeah, it's the,
[26:20]the disconnects are just definitely different.
[26:22]So having some perspective on that
[26:24]and having some calm of, okay, I'm going to walk away
[26:27]and then trust that I will be able to come back to this
[26:30]and what we've built is still there.
[26:33]Yeah. So.
[26:34]Yeah, and that's that underlying thread.
[26:36]I mean, I do want to say real quick
[26:37]because you live in the East Bay that might,
[26:39]it's my teacher, Annie Carpenter, who is East Bay based
[26:42]and is amazing.
[26:44]And you know, that's what she was saying
[26:45]and what we say in the book and what I voted on
[26:47]is that she talks about doing 80%.
[26:50]Because she is a, she's another, you know, 275,000 percent
[26:53]kind of person, you know?
[26:54]So it's like what happens if you pull back?
[26:56]What if you, even just 20% and it's not saying that, you know,
[27:00]and because that's the thing with the disconnection
[27:02]as I think people misinterpret it as detachment?
[27:05]Yes.
[27:06]Or, you know, but even, you can detach the blow.
[27:09]So it's like how do you pull back enough to leave space
[27:12]for people to have their own experience to grow and expand.
[27:16]And I kept thinking like when you were saying
[27:17]when you're too connected, there's no, there's no air to breathe, right?
[27:21]You're on top of something that, you know, if you were like
[27:24]on top of the flower, right?
[27:26]I mean, I don't, I don't garden.
[27:28]I mean, we'll come in and correct us in five seconds.
[27:30]You like, please don't use that metaphor.
[27:32]But if you're like on top of something, right?
[27:34]I imagine it can't really grow and breathe.
[27:36]So you have to leave the space for it to do so.
[27:39]Yes.
[27:40]Yes. Oh, I love to suffocate things with, like,
[27:43]over presence and over conversation.
[27:45]It's great.
[27:46]My husband loves it.
[27:48]Our last question.
[27:49]What's your greatest hope for the book?
[27:51]I just want more parents to feel good about themselves
[27:54]when they're reading a parenting book.
[27:56]You know, I want there to be a resource out there
[27:59]that will make you realize, A, you're already doing a great job.
[28:05]And B, you know, there is no perfect parent.
[28:08]There is no manual.
[28:10]This is just, again, these are just these lines, right?
[28:13]For you to color within to find the design that you need for you.
[28:19]And yeah, I mean, if we can help a few parents out there
[28:23]and inspire some people to be nicer to themselves along the way
[28:26]and, you know, take ownership over their needs,
[28:29]then think about the impacts that's going to have
[28:31]on the children and then on and on when you go.
[28:34]What a gift.
[28:35]Well, I am so thankful, truly, that I got to talk to you today.
[28:39]I'm so happy I was the one to interview you
[28:41]because this has been a gift for me.
[28:46]And I have no doubt that this book
[28:48]and that the conversation will be a gift
[28:50]to so many parents out there.
[28:51]So congratulations, you have a book in the world.
[28:55]And I can't wait for more people to get their hands on it.
[28:57]Thanks for being here today.
[28:59]Thank you. Thank you, Julie.
[29:00]Thank you, Zippy, for having me
[29:02]and the whole moms don't have time to read books.
[29:04]Crew and podcast and listeners.
[29:07]I've really honored any time I get to participate
[29:10]in these kind of things with Zippy.
[29:11]So thank you.
[29:12]Oh, absolutely.
[29:15]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:18]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens
[29:21]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:23]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com
[29:26]and sign up for my virtual book club
[29:27]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[29:30]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[29:34]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[29:36]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.