Alice Carrière, EVERYTHING NOTHING SOMEONE: A Memoir
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[1:03]Alice Carrier is the author of Everything, Nothing, Someone, a memoir.
[1:08]Alice is a graduate of Columbia University.
[1:10]This is her first book.
[1:12]She lives in Nashville, Tennessee and and begins at New York.
[1:15]Welcome Alice.
[1:16]Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books.
[1:20]Thanks for coming.
[1:21]Thank you so much.
[1:22]I'm so happy to be here and and and congratulations on your novel how fabulous and scary
[1:29]I might be projecting with that last know it adjective, but it is scary and I was doing
[1:35]copy at it this morning.
[1:36]I'm like, I don't think it's very good.
[1:38]I don't know.
[1:39]I want to be right the whole thing.
[1:40]So anyway, I just started changing everything and I know I have to stop.
[1:43]I don't know.
[1:44]I totally get it.
[1:45]I'm in the process of recording my audiobook right now and I can't change it, but I
[1:49]want to.
[1:50]And I am resisting every urge to text my editor like, what have we done, but I'm told
[1:56]it's very good.
[1:58]You don't need to change anything for your book, I promise, as a reader, I I can stand
[2:03]by that.
[2:04]So what do you tell listeners what your book is about when and why you decided to write
[2:09]the memoir and we'll go from there.
[2:12]Ooh.
[2:13]Okay.
[2:14]Well, first of all, I'd like to think of it as a coming of age story about identity and human
[2:22]connection and family, a survival thriller about dissociative disorder and psychiatric
[2:28]malpractice and an unlikely love story, but I think the title is super helpful for it
[2:35]kind of lets me take you on a tour of the whole book.
[2:39]So everything, right?
[2:41]So I was the daughter of two deeply self-destructive self-absorbed artists who were believed
[2:52]they kind of lived in an alternate universe where the power of their minds could shape reality.
[3:00]And everything was abstracted turned into art, including me.
[3:05]So my mother was a renowned painter and she was a victim of an overzealous clinician who
[3:15]implanted memories of ritualized child sex abuse and murder.
[3:21]And that really caused her to hide in her work and be unable to connect with the people
[3:26]around her.
[3:28]And my father was a European film star who really treated parenthood as this radical philosophical
[3:37]experiment in the total annihilation of boundaries.
[3:41]So given this context and I love how you're just going to, okay, it is the only appropriate
[3:49]reaction.
[3:50]We might be crying by the end, but we'll get all of the emotions.
[3:54]So basically with these outsized characters in my life, they really felt like characters
[4:00]instead of people.
[4:01]I was really flooded by their desires, their deficits and I became everything, an idea
[4:09]of a wife, a daughter, a mother.
[4:11]Then when I hit adolescence, a dissociative disorder arrived and it wiped out my identity.
[4:18]I couldn't recognize my face in the mirror.
[4:21]I didn't know where the words I spoke were coming from.
[4:24]I had no connection to my history, my body.
[4:26]I really believed I didn't exist.
[4:29]So I became nothing.
[4:32]And you know, responding to this psychiatrist kept prescribing more and more and more medications
[4:40]and convincing me that the few feelings that did manage to arise were pathological.
[4:46]And then coupled with a mother who didn't like to feel that became the norm.
[4:50]So I was medicated farther and farther away from myself.
[4:54]And then writing was really the only tether to reality.
[4:57]And then when I met my now-husband, my partner, 15 years, it was really his and he's also
[5:03]recovering addict and alcoholic.
[5:07]His compassion, his kindness, his virtuosic in loving, I mean, it's really incredible
[5:14]to see.
[5:15]He really taught me to turn outward and connect with people.
[5:18]And that helped me connect with my mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, with my
[5:22]father from whom I'd been estranged.
[5:25]And I became someone.
[5:29]So that's the book.
[5:31]Oh, what a beautiful description.
[5:34]Oh my gosh, see, even the way you talk, it's like the way you write.
[5:37]It's like everything has so much feeling and energy and like a turn of phrase that's
[5:43]like really interesting and powerful.
[5:45]Anyway, thank you.
[5:47]Thank you.
[5:48]So taken with the details of your childhood and growing up, like, you described the way
[5:56]you grew up in such vivid detail and in such a, I mean, your childhood was so unique.
[6:01]I mean, everybody feels their childhood was unique in the setting of the other day or
[6:04]so.
[6:05]Or sure.
[6:06]I mean, you talk about like creeping through these hallways and setting off alarms trying
[6:10]to get to your dad.
[6:11]We know I have to like still sleep next to my son.
[6:13]You know what I mean?
[6:14]Like to me.
[6:15]I'm like, how about I sleep down?
[6:16]No, no, no.
[6:17]Sleep right there.
[6:18]And, you know, your trips to Germany with your grandparents and like the conversations
[6:25]with your dad and the stuff he would tell you about like the sexual relationships with
[6:29]your mom.
[6:30]Oh my gosh, just, you try as a reader to put yourself in the shoes of you as a young girl
[6:37]and like, how does someone cope with all of that?
[6:40]What happens next?
[6:41]How does that person grow up?
[6:43]Well, what's so funny is that I actually, while I was writing it, I mean, I've been writing
[6:47]it for 15 years, but while I was writing it and working with my editor, I kept thinking
[6:52]that it was boring and not unique because I've been so normalized for me.
[6:57]This chaos had been so normalized and my editor would just her mouth and jaw would be
[7:03]on that on the floor as I just said, well, should I add this other thing about him trying
[7:08]to bring my pet rat back to life?
[7:09]Oh my gosh.
[7:10]It's like the tin foil and the freezer and then, oh my god, I could not believe that scene
[7:18]actually.
[7:19]I'm glad you brought it up.
[7:20]It's so funny.
[7:21]The things that I would sort of, the anecdotes I would tell casually and thinking they
[7:25]were either endearing or funny and they just go, oh my god, Alex.
[7:31]So it's been funny becoming reacquainted with my own history through the writing of
[7:38]this book.
[7:39]I'm kind of meeting myself for the first time in a lot of ways.
[7:44]So that's been really fascinating to find out ways in which my experience has been really
[7:48]universal because I think there are a lot of things in the book people can relate to,
[7:53]but there are a lot of really crazy stories that, you know, at the bare minimum will keep
[7:58]people entertained.
[7:59]So to answer how I got through it, I mean, it was really writing.
[8:06]It was, first of all, I would think in the third person when I was little.
[8:10]So I would metabolize that chaos through storytelling and I would say, you know, she is walking
[8:15]down the street, the rain falls on her jacket.
[8:17]And then I would be, you know, sitting on a gurney, scribbling in a notebook and writing
[8:25]really saved my life in a big, big way.
[8:28]And I, an audio books too.
[8:30]I would populate my life with all of these characters and it made me feel like I was
[8:36]in control.
[8:37]It made me feel not so alone.
[8:41]So tell me more about the feeling you get from writing.
[8:45]Like when you would tell the stories and when you would write and like paint some pictures
[8:50]for me of like, you writing now, you writing then the 15 years to writing this book, like
[8:56]what is this writing session for you look like?
[8:59]What a great question.
[9:01]So it really feels like I'm dropping into myself from our dizzying height and that the
[9:10]air thickens enough for me to be able to breathe because it really is, it's the place
[9:17]I feel safest.
[9:19]It's the place I feel competent.
[9:20]It's the place I feel that I have agency.
[9:24]It's the place that I can make decisions because I hate decisions.
[9:28]I mean, really, from what to eat every night to what to wear to what to do with my
[9:34]life, I just hate decisions.
[9:36]So writing, I'm better with big decisions than small decisions.
[9:40]For a while, I could not even just, I would like stand in a street corner and be like,
[9:43]should I go this way?
[9:44]Should I go that way?
[9:45]I'm just going to go this way.
[9:46]No, actually, maybe I'll go to the store first.
[9:48]I don't know, maybe I'll try this, but then it's like, should I move to LA?
[9:51]Yes, I should.
[9:52]Should I do this?
[9:53]Yes.
[9:54]Yeah, sure.
[9:55]Yeah.
[9:56]I don't know.
[9:57]I totally get that.
[9:58]I totally asked.
[10:00]Do you regret your decisions at all?
[10:02]All the, I rethink every decision.
[10:04]Every decision, all the time.
[10:05]Should I have done that?
[10:06]Oh, back then, like, I feel like if I can,
[10:08]and then I try to change most of my decisions.
[10:11]So now I'm like, I'll be buying refundable tickets
[10:13]at this point.
[10:14]And then you're sort of flabbergasted
[10:16]when you can't change the decision
[10:17]or like, this is life.
[10:19]Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[10:20]To be honest, I was just saying this to me.
[10:23]Like, because I'm so used to changing everything
[10:25]and like, feeling like, oh, if I just do this,
[10:28]I'll get to perfection.
[10:29]You know what I mean?
[10:29]Like, oh, this will be like with loss.
[10:32]Like, you can't go back and change a thing.
[10:34]Illness, loss, anything.
[10:36]And you're like, oh, yeah.
[10:38]So it turns out this is all a joke.
[10:40]I'm not in control of anything.
[10:41]It's a good old life.
[10:44]That joke that we all love.
[10:45]Yeah, that's interesting because the book
[10:47]is a great deal about self-doubt.
[10:49]You know, it's about all of the stories
[10:51]I was told about myself or told myself.
[10:53]Yep.
[10:54]And not knowing what the truth is
[10:57]and spending, you know, 37 years and 288 pages
[11:02]to not necessarily get to the truth
[11:04]but to get to a moment where all of so many things,
[11:11]so many truths can exist simultaneously.
[11:15]And I can remain whole in the center of that realization.
[11:20]And I can honor other people's reality too
[11:25]because this book, you know, I was estranged
[11:27]from my father for 13 years
[11:29]for many of the reasons that you mentioned
[11:31]of his inappropriateness
[11:33]but also because of embellishment and lies,
[11:36]embellishments and lies that were told about him
[11:40]and this book helped me find my way back to him
[11:43]and gave me back relationship to my father.
[11:45]So that's also what writing does for me
[11:48]is it connects me with other people.
[11:50]I feel like I raised this book
[11:53]and now the book is raising me.
[11:56]So it continues to connect me with people.
[11:59]I mean, us sitting right here and talking about it.
[12:01]It's so exciting, the power of storytelling.
[12:06]They're true.
[12:06]I know without these books,
[12:08]it's like I would never have met
[12:09]the most interesting people in the world.
[12:10]It's amazing.
[12:11]Yeah, without this book, I wouldn't have met myself too.
[12:15]Which is even better.
[12:17]Yes, amazing.
[12:18]When you summarized the therapeutic sort of reemergent
[12:23]childhood abuse of your mom,
[12:25]when I read that section,
[12:27]I was like, did this happen or did this not happen?
[12:29]Because you gave us evidence of some things
[12:32]and this family friends who were involved and all of that.
[12:35]And then I'm like, how do you even know?
[12:38]I mean, maybe that's the question overall.
[12:39]Like, how do we know what happened?
[12:41]How does she know?
[12:42]What do you think?
[12:43]Exactly right.
[12:44]And also how do we differentiate between instinct
[12:48]and fear or instinct and trauma?
[12:52]Yeah, residual trauma.
[12:53]So I think, I almost said it doesn't matter what I think
[12:56]because it was her experience,
[12:58]but I think something happened.
[13:00]I think she was deeply, deeply, deeply hurt.
[13:04]And I think the experience of being deeply hurt
[13:08]was not livable for her, was not tolerable.
[13:11]So she had to create these elaborate outlandish,
[13:18]unbelievable stories about, you know,
[13:22]essentially a satanic sex cult that she was forced
[13:25]to participate in as a child.
[13:27]And because they were so enormous,
[13:30]the fact that she couldn't move beyond it
[13:33]made her less culpable for not wanting to,
[13:36]not being able to move beyond it.
[13:38]You know, because it's so enormous,
[13:40]how can anyone contend with a history of being forced
[13:45]to bury the body of a seven year old, seven year old on a beach?
[13:49]How can anyone get over that?
[13:50]So the fact that she, you know, continued to hide,
[13:54]continued to drink, continued to protect herself
[13:58]in destructive ways that made it more understandable
[14:02]in a way to herself.
[14:03]And, but I think, you know, I think she was just so afraid.
[14:08]And I, you know, writing this book,
[14:10]I wrote myself into a place of deep, deep empathy for her.
[14:15]I mean, I can't imagine.
[14:18]And I'm proud of her in a lot of ways.
[14:22]The anger I felt has transformed into compassion.
[14:27]And I wish I could tell her all of that.
[14:30]I mean, next month will be the year anniversary of her death.
[14:34]And I was able to share the book with her
[14:37]before she died and the cover and all of that.
[14:40]But I really wish that we could have been peers
[14:44]and we could have spoken about everything I've learned
[14:48]from writing this book.
[14:50]I'm sorry.
[14:51]Thank you.
[14:52]Now that the book is out in the book,
[14:55]you talk about, you know, not just seeing yourself again,
[14:58]but also the people surrounding this whole sort of operation,
[15:02]right?
[15:03]How you have like every, you know, the image you have
[15:05]with the fire department being called in the flames, right?
[15:08]Going up when there's a party, like there were,
[15:11]it was not just you and your parents and your nanny
[15:14]and whatever.
[15:15]It was, there were a lot of bystanders
[15:17]who were going to the bathroom in front of you.
[15:18]And like all these people and the sick people
[15:22]who would come and recover and I some never,
[15:25]where are they now?
[15:26]Are they, do they see themselves in this book?
[15:29]Are you still in touch?
[15:30]Like like the whole extended, yes, seen.
[15:35]I'm in touch, some of them have died, unfortunately.
[15:38]And I am in touch with many of them.
[15:41]And they're super proud of me.
[15:44]So that was really good.
[15:45]And it's been really nice to, you know,
[15:48]I was grossly, grossly over medicated
[15:51]by the psychiatric community for over a decade.
[15:55]And to the point where, you know,
[15:57]being on so many stimulants and downers
[16:01]and everything else in between,
[16:03]it was like a personality growing on top of my personality.
[16:07]And I couldn't, I couldn't listen.
[16:09]I couldn't be a good friend.
[16:11]I couldn't, I was hostile.
[16:12]I was, I mean, it was terrible.
[16:14]So I didn't, I wasn't able to connect
[16:17]with people the way I wanted to.
[16:19]So now I'm friends with all of my mom's friends.
[16:22]I'm friends with, you know,
[16:24]almost everyone who's mentioned in the book,
[16:26]the nice people and it feels really good
[16:30]to have these relationships with them
[16:32]on my own terms when I'm healthy
[16:35]or in the process of getting healthier and healthier
[16:38]because we're never, I'm never really fully cured
[16:41]from the human condition.
[16:43]But I, it's been one of the great joys of my life
[16:46]to rediscover these relationships
[16:50]and have it have a happy ending.
[16:51]That's why the acknowledgement section is so long
[16:54]because I just, there are so many wonderful people
[16:56]in my life and I love them all
[16:58]and I'm so grateful and lucky.
[17:00]Oh, that is amazing.
[17:02]Yeah, wonderful.
[17:02]And I'm, I'm so, I'm also so proud of my dad
[17:07]because he's been so wonderful with facing this book.
[17:13]Being out in the world.
[17:14]I mean, it's not easy to have something like this
[17:17]written about you and he's been so supportive
[17:21]and so wonderful and I'm really proud of him.
[17:23]Did you worry about it?
[17:25]Like did you worry that it was too much?
[17:27]Like did you worry like too much?
[17:29]That's like the motto of my,
[17:30]that's like my family crest motto too much.
[17:34]But yeah, it's interesting.
[17:35]It's no, no, it's interesting.
[17:37]It's a great question because well,
[17:41]in terms of the honesty level, right?
[17:44]I mean, you've read it, you know,
[17:46]the things I reveal in an, and in what graphic detail
[17:49]and it's really funny because it never occurred to me
[17:53]while I was writing it that I could say anything
[17:57]but everything.
[17:58]It didn't occur to me that I could scale it back
[18:02]until it was too late.
[18:04]So, you know, now that the book is gonna be out
[18:06]in the world, I'm kind of going, oh my God, what have I done?
[18:09]As a read, it's great, as a reader, you know,
[18:12]but this is like you and your life and, you know,
[18:14]you have to like bop along and keep going
[18:16]after I've put the book down to them.
[18:18]Right, exactly right.
[18:20]So, but in terms of my father and of being too much,
[18:25]the answer is no, I never really thought of that
[18:27]because I think in the middle of all of the sort of
[18:30]uncomfortable stuff, there was that kernel of trust
[18:34]because we are all artists in my family.
[18:37]So, it kind of never occurred to me
[18:41]that I couldn't pour everything of who I am
[18:43]and everything I have into my work.
[18:46]It's what my mother did, it's what my father did.
[18:48]And I trusted that, I trusted that intrinsic part of us
[18:53]that understands that need to divulge,
[18:57]that need to figure it out.
[19:00]And I really tried in the book for it not to be an indictment.
[19:05]I mean, it's really the only time it's an indictment
[19:07]is of the American psychiatric complex.
[19:09]That's really my lingering anger.
[19:11]Nothing against my father, nothing against my mother.
[19:14]So, it's, I'm really glad I went all the way.
[19:17]And I think it was only, and I say this in the book,
[19:20]it was only because we could say, you know,
[19:23]everything, you know, everything to each other
[19:26]that we could say everything we needed to.
[19:28]Yeah.
[19:29]So, that was, it's part of it.
[19:31]After all your experiences with the psychiatric association
[19:35]medication on this, like,
[19:36]out where are you now with medication?
[19:38]Do you are you medicated?
[19:39]You don't have to answer this.
[19:40]Like, do you, how do you feel about it in general?
[19:43]Like, so I think responsible medicating can save lives.
[19:49]You know, good therapy, save lives.
[19:52]So, and I think also getting well is,
[19:56]it's a collaborative effort and it's a developing story.
[20:00]I think what happened with me, and I can't speculate about what motivated, let's call him
[20:06]Dr. Sreeny, as I call him in the book, what motivated him, you know, I hope it wasn't
[20:12]just, you know, paid by the pharmaceutical industry.
[20:14]I don't know.
[20:15]I can't speculate, but I think there was a rigidity and a, you know, he told me I'd have
[20:21]to be on medication the rest of my life and, you know, told me that I was bipolar.
[20:26]And I have not been on medication for bipolar disorder for almost a decade, and I've
[20:32]been completely symptom free.
[20:34]So, and that's scary to realize.
[20:37]It's scary when I started going off of the Adderall.
[20:41]It scared me how easy it was, and it scared me how much I liked myself off of it, because
[20:46]I was just doing what I was told.
[20:49]And what I was told was to take so much medication that it gave me a psychotic episode,
[20:53]and it made me overdose.
[20:55]So I continue to work on myself.
[20:59]I mean, I'm never going to be done.
[21:02]And I'm, I all I know is that I feel really good.
[21:06]And even when I don't feel well, I'm doing well.
[21:11]And because I think that's an important distinction, and I have an incredible partner.
[21:16]Yeah, tell me, tell me more about the state of affairs there, the state of affairs.
[21:22]I mean, I'm still, after 15 years, I'm still in pinch me mode.
[21:26]He's so kind, he's so supportive, he's so creative, he's so handsome, blah, blah, blah,
[21:31]all the adjectives.
[21:32]But what's great, what I, the story I love is the editing process involves me reading
[21:39]the entire manuscript out loud to him seven times.
[21:44]And he will pace back and forth, and he'll go, wait, what are you trying to say?
[21:49]And then we shout words at each other until one of us goes, oh, that's it, and then
[21:54]we high five.
[21:56]And just, we're so enmeshed in so many ways.
[21:59]I mean, we like the same things.
[22:02]And now, you know, we collaborate and we work together.
[22:05]And he helps me, you know, in that most intimate sphere, which is my work.
[22:09]So I'm so grateful.
[22:11]I'm really lucky and I'm, yeah, I'm really grateful for him.
[22:14]His name's Gregory.
[22:15]I don't know if I mentioned that, but he's a real life person, not just a character
[22:18]in a book.
[22:19]And he is that great.
[22:22]I don't exaggerate in the book.
[22:24]So that's really helped.
[22:25]I mean, he's, he's, he's in recovery.
[22:28]He's in the program.
[22:29]I'm sober too.
[22:30]I'm not in the program.
[22:31]So he, he, I get sort of a contact tie for lack of a better term in this context from,
[22:39]you know, his work in the program.
[22:40]And also he's just, he was really patient with me while I was getting sober and I wasn't
[22:46]sober for a long time.
[22:48]So that's been really helpful having someone who has that patient, has that insight and
[22:54]can commiserate me with me about how freaking weird being alive is, you know, just I feel
[23:03]like that's, that's an important part.
[23:06]It is, it is all completely bizarre, crazy and also like anyway, I won't even go to the
[23:14]meeting of life.
[23:16]But I already hear more about that on the next one.
[23:18]Yeah.
[23:19]Yeah.
[23:20]Next week on our discussion on the meeting of life, but that's all so wonderful.
[23:27]And after this whole thing, like, how was the publication process for you and going through
[23:32]that and selling the book and marketing the book and like how, how was this all been?
[23:37]Oh my goodness.
[23:39]Well, it's out August 29th.
[23:41]Yeah.
[23:42]But not even now.
[23:43]Yeah.
[23:44]So much stuff.
[23:46]I honestly, I love every moment of it.
[23:49]I, my fetish is the minutiae is the paperwork.
[23:53]I'm like, give me more questionnaires to fill out.
[23:57]Tell me, you know, the print I wanted to go and see the book being printed.
[24:00]I mean, this has been my dream since I was six years old.
[24:04]I have wanted to be a writer since I was six.
[24:06]So I feel so honored, so privileged, so lucky.
[24:11]all the words, all the synonyms just to be in this position.
[24:18]I mean, I just, I can't believe it.
[24:23]And I mean, it took, it took a long time.
[24:26]My incredible agent Kim Witherspoon scooped me up.
[24:30]I think four years ago.
[24:32]And then we rewrote, she helped me, she gave me some tips and I rewrote and I rewrote
[24:37]and then my incredible goddess of an editor and publisher, Julie Grau at Speakville and
[24:44]Grau, she saw me, she got it.
[24:47]And she's, she's genius.
[24:49]And the biggest delight to work with, I mean, we worked on Thanksgiving.
[24:54]We worked on Sundays.
[24:55]And I mean, I have, this is the best, has been the best moments of my life, of my life.
[25:03]I am so happy that I get to sit here and talk about what I wrote and what I experienced.
[25:10]And I'm so grateful and I can't wait.
[25:14]And it's, I'm scared, I'm scared out of my mind.
[25:16]I mean, my heart right now is pounding out of my chest.
[25:18]And, you know, sometimes I'm scared, I'm going to forget my own name.
[25:22]But, you know, it's been great.
[25:25]And I'm, I'm learning, you know, I did a panel and I said some pretty bonkers stuff.
[25:31]I don't know if you saw a panel, but it was about, you know, some sex stuff.
[25:36]And I'm, I'm learning what's an overshare and what's an overshare.
[25:42]So I'm just, I still can't believe that my dream has come true.
[25:45]And little Alice is just in tears of joy every minute.
[25:49]In fact, Gregory, if he, I'm not a big cryer, but Gregory, if he wants to help me
[25:56]ground myself in the moment and, and acknowledge all the beautiful things happening,
[26:00]he'll just start talking about little Alice.
[26:02]No.
[26:03]And he goes, what do you think little Alice would?
[26:06]I mean, I'm, I'm getting a little choked up just, little Alice gets me every time
[26:09]because she's, you know, she's living her dream.
[26:12]And she almost gave up a bunch of times.
[26:15]So I'm really glad she didn't.
[26:17]I'm really glad she didn't too.
[26:18]And I'm really excited for you.
[26:21]And I keep proud of the little Alice, the little, what you've shared with the reader,
[26:26]you know, that we know of you.
[26:27]And it's really wonderful.
[26:29]And a huge accomplishment.
[26:31]And I'm really rooting for you.
[26:32]And I'm very excited for you.
[26:34]Thank you so much, Libby.
[26:36]Thank you.
[26:36]Thank you.
[26:37]Thank you.
[26:37]Thank you.
[26:37]Thank you.
[26:39]Also, I mean, pinch me.
[26:40]Thank you.
[26:41]Thank you so much.
[26:42]Well, I hope that I loved talking to you.
[26:44]I love talking to you too.
[26:46]I know.
[26:46]More, more to come on the meeting of life.
[26:51]From the experts who know nothing.
[26:53]Exactly.
[26:53]That's how I feel.
[26:54]Yes.
[26:55]From the completely oblivious, you know, to everyone else.
[26:59]Yeah.
[26:59]All right.
[27:00]Well, keep me posted on stuff and stay in touch.
[27:02]And good luck.
[27:03]Amazing.
[27:03]Oh, thank you.
[27:04]Awesome.
[27:05]It was so great to meet you.
[27:06]You too.
[27:07]You too.
[27:07]All right.
[27:08]Have a great day.
[27:08]You too.
[27:09]Bye.
[27:09]Bye.
[27:11]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:15]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibbowens.
[27:18]And at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:20]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com
[27:23]and sign up for my virtual book club.
[27:24]And meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:27]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[27:30]for the Sound Editing.
[27:31]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:33]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.