Anne Berest, THE POSTCARD
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]And the rest is the author of the postcard.
[1:06]This episode was guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of Everyone But Myself, forthcoming
[1:10]from Zippy Books in January and is the best-selling co-author of Hadby Parisian, wherever
[1:16]you are.
[1:17]And the author of a novel based on the life of French writer Francois Zagan.
[1:21]With her sister Claire, she's also the author of Gabrielle, a critically acclaimed biography
[1:25]of her great-grandmother Gabrielle, buffet, pickabia, Marcel Duchamp's lover and muse.
[1:31]She's a great granddaughter of the painter Frances Pickabia.
[1:35]For her work as a writer and prize-winning showrunner, she has been profiled in publications
[1:40]such as French folk and her at newspaper.
[1:42]The recipient of numerous literary awards.
[1:44]The postcard was a finalist for the Guncourt Prize and has been a long-selling best-seller
[1:48]in France.
[1:49]Bonjour and bienvenous.
[1:51]Thank you.
[1:53]Thanks for coming on.
[1:54]Moms, don't have time to read books to talk about the postcard.
[1:58]I am so excited that I get to speak with you today.
[2:02]Thank you for inviting me.
[2:04]Oh, it's wonderful.
[2:06]This book is so special.
[2:09]I loved reading it.
[2:11]It's beautifully written.
[2:13]It's very...
[2:15]It's quick to read in the sense that I wanted to know what was going to happen.
[2:19]I really was so connected to the characters and to you and so I'm so excited to talk
[2:26]to you about it today.
[2:27]Thank you.
[2:28]Thank you.
[2:29]Let's start by just talking about kind of the beginning of this.
[2:35]Why don't you start by telling me about your writing process and we can talk about this
[2:40]book specifically and maybe as you're talking if you can share a little bit what the book
[2:44]is about and what your process was like writing it.
[2:48]So about my writing process.
[2:51]So I write every day.
[2:54]Okay.
[2:56]And during the year, it's quite a straightforward in the morning.
[3:02]I take my children to school.
[3:05]I come back home to write and I write all day.
[3:10]I have lunch alone at home because I can't have lunch with someone else because it breaks
[3:20]my concentration.
[3:23]Yes.
[3:24]So I write until it's time to pick up my children from school and so my life is not
[3:31]exciting at all.
[3:34]I'm a lot more of time.
[3:37]That makes sense.
[3:38]As you say that, I think it's true.
[3:40]If I let the writing get interrupted then you're done for the day.
[3:46]Something broken.
[3:47]Yes.
[3:48]Oh, that makes sense.
[3:49]So when you set out to write this book, tell me about, I think let's start at the
[3:57]beginning.
[3:58]I'm just looking back.
[3:59]I had sent you a list of questions, which is not normal for me, which I loved, but I want
[4:04]to talk about a little bit.
[4:07]How did you become a writer originally because you have written so many books and articles
[4:13]and lots of different projects and a lot for the screen as well.
[4:16]So tell me how you became a writer.
[4:19]That's beautiful, but a very difficult question.
[4:23]Oh, okay.
[4:25]Because I am not sure if I have become a writer.
[4:31]That's so French of you.
[4:32]I ask myself this question every day, but let's say that when I was a child, it was my dream.
[4:46]Why it's a mystery.
[4:49]You have little girls who dream of becoming a singer, a doctor, an astronaut.
[4:57]I don't know, an actress, but me, I want it to become a writer.
[5:03]And I didn't know why, but I try to understand this mystery and I discover when I was
[5:13]writing the postcard that my great aunt, Noy Mee, who was murdered by the Nazis when
[5:23]she was 19, I discovered that she wanted to be a writer.
[5:31]And I didn't know that because I wrote a lot of books before I discovered this link
[5:40]with my great aunt.
[5:42]And I thought to myself, perhaps it's like an invisible transmission.
[5:51]Maybe this young girl has survived within me.
[5:57]And the fever of writing has been passed down through the family tree and in the sap
[6:06]of the tree beyond death.
[6:08]So maybe that's why I want it to be a writer.
[6:13]That is beautiful.
[6:14]That brought tears to my eyes.
[6:16]What a beautiful way to think about our lives as part of the lives that have come before
[6:24]us.
[6:25]Yes, I truly believe in that.
[6:27]Yes, the sap of the family tree.
[6:29]I have never heard it put that way beautiful.
[6:32]Well, I think that you were meant to be a writer and I'm so glad that you are.
[6:38]The postcard, too, just to give people a sense is about an anonymous postcard that
[6:43]you received or that your mother received in 2003.
[6:46]Correct?
[6:47]Exactly.
[6:48]And it had four names.
[6:49]Fheim, Noy Mee, Jacques Mee, yes, I moved them around, I just realized.
[6:56]But those were just like you mentioned, Noy Mee was your great aunt.
[7:01]Yes.
[7:02]Okay.
[7:03]And I loved, so really the beginning of the book is you following that.
[7:09]Now, your mother had started a lot of research about your family and then building on
[7:15]that research, you began to go through and create the story that became the postcard.
[7:22]So it is so impressive.
[7:25]The scope of your research, I was so impressed by the detail and the different documents
[7:35]that you unearthed, which were both so incredible and so awful to read and understand
[7:42]the complicity and all the pieces that went through it.
[7:45]Right.
[7:46]We read about World War II often, but I think every time it is fresh, how awful it was.
[7:54]So I think reading the postcard, I really appreciated the research.
[7:58]Let's talk about that a little bit.
[8:00]So your mother had begun a lot of this research.
[8:02]What was one of the most surprising things you discovered in your research?
[8:07]It's hard to answer.
[8:09]Yes.
[8:10]I don't want to spoil you as a book.
[8:13]Of course.
[8:14]Okay.
[8:15]So one of those opposed.
[8:16]Yes.
[8:17]Yes.
[8:18]During my investigation, so during the investigation, I met with my mother, she, the heroine
[8:28]of the book, and with a private detective, we had extraordinary adventures.
[8:37]Yes.
[8:38]And it was so extraordinary that I couldn't have made it up.
[8:46]And that's why I want you and you, your listener, to know that I don't want to spoil
[8:53]it, but I want you to know that everything is true.
[8:59]And I didn't invent it anything, even though it's written in the style of a novel, everything
[9:07]as I discovered is the truth, but I want the readers to discover it.
[9:14]Yes.
[9:15]Well, it's so beautifully done.
[9:18]I can't tell you how many times.
[9:19]So when I read a book, I don't read the back.
[9:22]I don't read the description.
[9:24]I just opened it.
[9:25]And so when Zippy had talked about this book, I went, purchased my copy and started reading.
[9:32]And there were so many times that I looked back and thought, is this a novel?
[9:37]Because it, this did happen.
[9:40]So it reads so amazingly well that way.
[9:44]And the suspense of it and the way you put the different books, it's so good.
[9:48]So I agree with you, let's not spoil anything, but it is so good and such a page turner.
[9:56]I loved it.
[9:58]So you have a book.
[10:00]writing process, apparently, which is lovely. I love hearing about boring because
[10:05]comes up for boring, right? But so much of this book was based on this
[10:12]research and, you know, talking about your mother and her being the heroine of
[10:17]this book, the smoking heroine of this book, which I loved when she got the
[10:23]cigarettes and half. That was my favorite. She's milky. One week with her
[10:32]here on, on holidays. Yes. She's smoking, smoking, smoking, smoking, smoking.
[10:38]It's crazy. And how old is she now? She's almost 80. Yes. Almost 80.
[10:49]That's not a good thing to know because it's very bad to
[10:55]smoke. It's horrible. We'll put a, we'll put a thing on there that says,
[11:00]we'll put on a disclaimer. You're right. It's, that's, you know, but it does feel
[11:06]like part of who she is. I feel like I know your mom and I do see her with a
[11:10]cigarette. So just, but yes, no one starts smoking. Everyone knows. Yes, we have
[11:16]said it. And I have let you know it's bad for you. Don't do it. Long charring, as you
[11:22]say it. How was your relationship with your mother over the course of the
[11:27]book and the research for it? Did it change your relationship with her? Yes.
[11:32]The relationship with my mother has changed because we both embarked on this
[11:40]adventure that can send us really. And during, I don't know, three, four years,
[11:49]we no longer talked about children and vacations or organizing family meals.
[11:59]A little bit exaggerating, but of course we didn't care anymore. We just
[12:07]talking always about his investigation. So we were like, I'd know like two, two times,
[12:15]not like a mother and a daughter, but like kids playing game. And so it was really amazing.
[12:24]And after when the book came out in France, I wanted to do all the promotion with her.
[12:34]I asked the journalists, the book sailors. Do you agree? I come with my mother. And it was
[12:42]fantastic because I was always with her. And it was so good. And she cooked me when we had to
[12:52]take a train to go. I know in another city, she cooked me a little sandwich. She's like,
[13:00]when I was the little girl, it was so good. It was so funny to share all these moments with her
[13:08]because she's quirky and she's funny. And she always says, and expected things, even with journalists,
[13:19]I don't know what she will answer. I'm always a little bit afraid. And so, and she's also extremely
[13:28]bright. It was really a joy to catch her to catch her in my book. So our relationship didn't
[13:38]change really, but it was so good to be with her. Yes. It sounds like it was a gift.
[13:46]I told her, you know, mom, it's hard to be a heroine in a book. So she read the book when I was writing
[13:57]it. Okay. And something like every 50 pages, I told her, okay, if you want to change something
[14:04]to change a word or something you can, it was really a work together. Yes. Collaboration.
[14:12]Right. You have our team. Yes. Oh, well, you feel that reading it that you're both excited and
[14:20]that makes sense that you were like children together. Just look at what I found. And we were always
[14:26]also arguing. Yes. And that's funny because she said to me, no, you're wrong. No, I'm sure that's a
[14:34]good way. So it was really funny. And you wrote a scene or a few scenes in the book where you were
[14:40]convinced that you knew who has the postcard. And she said, no, no, you said, why? And no, just no,
[14:49]I know. Yeah. That sounds very much like a mom. Yes. Oh, moms are always right. Right. Now,
[14:58]we can be those people for our own children. Exactly. That is really neat to hear. And we're talking
[15:06]about the fun part of the exploration. But for you, you were writing about very heavy, sad topics.
[15:15]So how did you care for yourself, especially since you write alone? And you know, you're alone
[15:23]for a large chunk of the day. So how did you care for yourself when things were too much or felt
[15:31]too heavy? Oh, yes. I cried every day while writing some chapters of the book. Yes, because it was too
[15:41]horrible. And I really had a box of tissues next to my computer to wipe away the tears onto the
[15:52]keys. And I never cried so much as when writing this book. But I also, it was very important to me
[16:01]for me. I also wanted you to bring light into the book. For example, all the shutters
[16:12]about history are very hard. But after you have all the shutters with the investigation and
[16:24]that's more light. And we paid a lot of fun with my mother and with the private detective also. And
[16:33]I think that it's Jewish humor. And it's at something to do with
[16:42]about trying to find laughter with inters. Yes. And so I wanted to give that to the readers.
[16:53]And to say to them, okay, we cried a lot because human beings can be horrible. Yes. But now give
[17:02]my hand. And we are right, rocking through the light. Yes. Walking through the light and bringing
[17:12]along with you, Jacques and Nomi and Emma and Ephraim. Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful to
[17:22]think of it that way is drawing it forward because it is. Tell me about the private detective.
[17:29]I know that I asked you that the motto was in order to decide you have to know. Is that actually
[17:36]their tagline? Yes. Yes. I am going to write that down and put it on my cabinet. Yes. And
[17:44]as I told you, in fact, I don't have imagination. So that's the reality that gives me all the extraordinary
[17:59]feelings. And so that motto of the private detective was so good. Oh, I have said it so many times
[18:09]to my kids because I tend to worry. And that's a good reminder, right? There's nothing to decide
[18:17]today because I don't know yet. And I have to know. So I'll just wait. Yeah. Will you tell me,
[18:23]what is that motto in French? I love that. So when we talk about that, so you didn't make that
[18:45]fact up. And you also didn't make up the fact that a person's handwriting changes every five
[18:50]years. Yes. That is incredible. Yes. Yes. So that's what graphologists say. Yes. And you know,
[19:00]I learned a lot of things about graphology from this graphologist named Jesus in the book.
[19:10]So one more time. I love that. And this guy works in France with the course to analyze
[19:24]the handwriting of announcing most letters during trials. And so that's why I wanted to
[19:35]work with him. And he helped me a lot because he's a specialist of anonymous handwriting. So
[19:45]that's how I learned that every five years your handwriting changed. But maybe I don't know,
[19:53]because perhaps now that we write much less with,
[20:00]Oh, and mostly on computers. Yes. Maybe things might be different, but that's what I learned.
[20:10]That was what they said. You know, I like to write books to learn things.
[20:16]Yes. To share it with readers. Yes. Well, you share so much in this book. And I love that fact,
[20:26]but you're right. We don't write as much as we did in the past. And so that is an interesting
[20:32]question. I know that my handwriting, it is funny to look back, though. I was thinking about this for me.
[20:38]So you have worked. We're going back to one of my earlier questions, but you've worked on a
[20:44]variety of writing projects. So you write to learn things and to share them. But you've also done a lot
[20:49]for the screen. Yes. So what are the main differences for you? It's very when you're writing a
[20:56]screenplay or not. It is very different. Okay. Tell me because one is freedom and solely freedom.
[21:05]And the other is constraint, solely constraint. Okay. And I love bus, but when you write is
[21:15]script for movies or series, but especially a series is script, you have to adhere to rules to
[21:26]the screen writing rules. For example, you have to have a twist after a certain number of minutes.
[21:38]You have to put a cliffhanger after a certain number of minutes. You have to put a plot
[21:47]development after a certain number of minutes. So it's like a game of chess. Each moves
[21:57]corresponds to a rule of the game. When you buy for series. And for example, you also have to know
[22:10]very well the economic cost of what you are writing. Interesting. Because if you are hard
[22:20]as a screen writer for a series with a budget, I don't know of one million dollars per episode,
[22:26]which isn't much. And if you deliver a script with to your producer with I don't know six different
[22:37]sets, then a crowd sees with a lot of extras and a flashback in the 1980s with costumes and
[22:50]all cars, your producer will say, okay, I don't want your script. You have to rewrite everything
[22:58]because it doesn't correspond to the budget of the series. So that's why I say it's like playing
[23:11]chess. You have to know everything, all the rules. You don't know, you cannot play on the contrary
[23:22]in a book. You can do everything. Yeah. Freedom. Total freedom. You can go to the moon. You can go
[23:33]everywhere you want. You can have a scene with one million people. It doesn't cost anything. It's really
[23:41]freedom. So that's why I like the boss because I like freedom. I like constraint. But if I had to choose
[23:52]and if someone told me you have to choose between books or scripts for me, the choice is very clear.
[24:02]I'm a novelist. I'm a writer of books. And that's not a question for me.
[24:11]That is a beautiful and really good way to put it. I've never thought that. But it's true,
[24:18]if I turned in a script with eight helicopters crashing, maybe, I don't know, then they would be very
[24:26]good point. I'm so glad. Good to know. You are a novelist and you are a novelist who enjoys writing
[24:38]this. Exactly. Exactly. There you go. What has been interesting for you about the American reception
[24:47]of this book versus the French or have you gotten there yet? Do you feel like you haven't
[24:53]answered to that question? Yes. And that's fascinating when you release a book in a foreign country.
[25:04]Each country has its own reception because each country has its own history and especially with
[25:13]the question of the Second World War. And so my journey with this book in the United States
[25:21]is really a true dream. You know, because I can't believe it. You know, for Earth's French writers,
[25:32]it's an absolute dream to be translated and to be read by the American readers. And so yes,
[25:44]I was so happy. I said it's a miracle. I was able to observe how curious and how attentive
[25:53]Americans were and are to the Second World War. And they are also very curious to understand
[26:03]the lives of the French during the German occupation. Yes. And also, I think that I observed
[26:14]that American readers were also very curious about the lives of the Jews in France after the war.
[26:24]And so I think that Americans love history with a capital hash. And also, I think you have a lot
[26:36]a fiction for France. And so it's very pleasant, of course.
[26:45]I am so glad you're right. There is an enthusiasm for stories about the Second World War.
[26:52]And then also for an understanding of that side of things. And you're right, the returning,
[27:01]reading about the prison of returning after the Second World War when they came back to the
[27:09]hotel and all of the things. That was an incredible portion of the book. I just, and that was,
[27:14]I will say, like you said, curious about those lives. That was a piece I hadn't really read before.
[27:20]So I learned so much from your book. Oh, I have to say, I want to ask you my last question.
[27:27]You mentioned in the book, which you said, nothing mattered as much as that I was descended from
[27:33]a line of Jewish women. So you have a daughter. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry, two dollars. Look,
[27:41]I have one daughter. Oh, you only had Clara. And now you have. And then I had another daughter
[27:48]with the character of Josh in the book. Oh, my goodness. Amazing. I love that. Oh,
[27:57]that's, I feel like I just learned something new. That makes my heart so happy. Okay, wonderful.
[28:02]So now you have two daughters. So is this something you're passing on to your daughters?
[28:08]Yes. Yes. And is that important to you? And how do you do that?
[28:11]Yes, of course it's important, but I don't know if it's the most important thing.
[28:20]It's very important, but okay, what I'm trying to convey to my daughters
[28:29]every day is first and foremost to be happy and to be free and to be independent women and to be
[28:47]a human being in harmony with her planet and other human beings. So that's the most
[28:57]important scene. It sounds like that has been an evolution for you and sharing with them.
[29:05]I love that. It's so true. There's we forget how lovely and necessary it is to be happy and
[29:15]what a gift. And
[29:18]this time was
[29:23]Poofie. Poof one. Thank you for the book. Thank you for this time. And I wish you all the luck and
[29:31]truly all shontay. I'm so happy that we have met. And I hope that I will be visiting France soon.
[29:38]I love Paris. It's one of my favorite places to go. And I want to explore more of France.
[29:43]And I will knock on your door when I come like a true American. I'll just show up while you're
[29:49]writing and interrupt you. You will come. Thank you so much. Bye Julie. Have a nice. Bye bye. You too.
[30:00]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:04]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zebi Owens, and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[30:08]Books.
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[30:16]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[30:20]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.