Alexandra Potter, CONFESSIONS OF A FORTY-SOMETHING F**K UP
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Alexander Potter is the author of Confessions of a 40-something fuckup.
[1:08]I mean, it has two little, so you don't always read it, but that's what it's called.
[1:13]By the way, I am obsessed with Alexandra.
[1:16]And she is going to be interviewing me for the launch of my novel, Blank, which comes
[1:20]out March 1st.
[1:22]And she and I are going to be in conversation at Zippy's bookshop in Santa Monica.
[1:26]And I am so excited for that.
[1:28]So thank you to her for that.
[1:30]She is amazing.
[1:31]Definitely go follow her and read everything she's written.
[1:33]Okay.
[1:34]Alexandra Potter is the best selling author of numerous novels, including this one,
[1:39]Confessions of a 40-something f up, which is now the basis of a major TV series.
[1:44]These titles have sold in 25 territories and achieved worldwide sales of more than one
[1:48]million copies, making the best seller charts around the world.
[1:52]Born and raised in Yorkshire, Alexandra lived for several years in LA before settling
[1:56]back in the UK.
[1:57]She currently lives in London with her California husband and their Bosnian rescue dog.
[2:03]FYI from her website, she says that her childhood dream was always to be a writer.
[2:07]She graduated from Liverpool University with a degree in English literature and worked
[2:11]in magazines in London.
[2:13]She traveled to Sydney, Australia and landed a job at Vogue.
[2:16]Her first novel, What's New Pussycat, was published in 2000 a week before her 30th birthday
[2:21]and made it to the top 10.
[2:23]She's written 12 novels, including Be Careful What You Wish for, Me and Mr. Darcy,
[2:27]which won Best New Fiction Award at the Jane Austen Regency World Awards, Love from
[2:32]Paris, which was shortlisted for the RNA Comedy Award and now of course her latest.
[2:37]Aside from her novels, she also wrote a short story for Radio 4 and has contributed to
[2:42]several anthologies, including Girls Night in an aid of the International Charity War child.
[2:48]Her book, Confessions of a 40-something F-up is the basis of the ABC show, not dead yet.
[2:56]Welcome, Alexandra.
[2:57]Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read books to discuss Confessions
[3:01]of a 40-something F-up.
[3:03]Thanks, Vivi.
[3:05]Wonderful to be here.
[3:07]It's so meta because the protagonist of your book ends up being a podcaster and here I
[3:11]am as a podcaster asking you about the book, about the podcaster, so it's a full circle
[3:16]moment here.
[3:18]Yeah, I know, that's awesome.
[3:19]Okay, tell listeners what your book is about and by the way, because this came out earlier
[3:26]in the UK, your second book is already out, so we have to hear about that, but it's not available
[3:30]here yet, but soon, so anyway, the first book, Confessions of a 40-something F-up.
[3:34]Okay, so this book came about because I was in my photos and me and my friends were all talking
[3:40]about our lives and we were kind of saying, it's kind of not how we thought it was going to be,
[3:44]it's sort of we thought everything would be all figured out and we'd be sorted and we'd
[3:48]totally know what we were doing and we still nobody really knows what they're doing.
[3:52]And I was looking on social media and everybody's lives seemed perfect, like everything was
[3:58]just like, you know, the kids looked all in their little white outfits and they were with their
[4:03]husbands walking on the beach at sunset and their houses looked amazing and I was kind of thinking,
[4:08]my life looks nothing like that and that's how the kind of idea was born of this character
[4:13]called Nail and she's thought she's something and kind of she hasn't ticked the boxes,
[4:19]she hasn't got it all worked out, her life's this kind of messy life and then I had the idea
[4:24]that she would meet an older character called Crinkett who's in her eighties because Nail starts
[4:29]to write a bitcheries and she writes one for Crinkett's husband and they form this kind of unlikely
[4:35]friendship and they sort of start their lives over again and it's about sort of starting over,
[4:42]it's about trying to figure out life, it's it's about sort of telling it like it is.
[4:48]I wanted to tell it like it is and I wanted, I wanted you to kind of show a character that falls
[4:55]in love with her life and not about falling in love with the guy. I love that. Tell me like it is,
[5:02]that's like my mantra and there's so many as a 47, myself, I'm 47 but there's so many things in here
[5:11]that I was like laughing out loud nodding my head like covering my face like smiling like oh my gosh
[5:19]and it's so great how at one point in the book you know Nail and all her friends are go through
[5:24]the same thing where like everything feels like everyone else has it figured out and yet
[5:28]you see here in plain truth how in fact that is a lie and everybody feels that some area of
[5:33]their life is just a mess. Well yeah it's that kind of idea that in some in some element of your
[5:40]life you feel like you're failing and everyone's succeeding and that sort of title of the book was
[5:46]that no one is an f-up you know it's just that society can make you feel like that and I think
[5:51]once Nail sort of starts this secret podcast and it's kind of an anonymous podcast and all
[5:56]her friends start to relate to it and again so she's already something but I've had messages
[6:02]from 20 some things it's kind of universal for everyone really. It's so true yeah the podcast
[6:13]itself is so great and I mean all of it is just so fun but there are sort of deeper not deeper
[6:19]but more you know long lasting more serious messages I feel like sprinkled throughout the book in
[6:25]different passages sort of about life itself I was hoping I could read just like two quick scenes
[6:30]if that's okay yeah yeah sure let's see two let's see okay well there's this one section
[6:35]you have called it's complicated when you start with by saying tonight I watched the news at 10 it
[6:39]should be renamed the bad news at 10 it was one horrible headline after another and then you go down
[6:44]and you say as a human being when I see these things I suffered the expected emotions or fear
[6:49]sadness but also a sense of shame and not just shame and how we're treating the inhabitants of our
[6:54]planet but shame that my own problems are completely insignificant when held in context how can I wake up
[6:59]with the fear when I'm lying in bed safe and warm and there are people out there without food or
[7:04]shelter how can I look in the mirror and feel gloomy about my sagging knees when women younger
[7:08]than me are dying of cancer and it's a privilege to age how can I feel sad about not finding my
[7:13]happy ever after and so much of our planet is being destroyed and how can I even concern myself with
[7:18]my faltering career and failed love life when we have Brexit and Trump in short how dare I complain
[7:22]about my life when I have so much compared to so many the answer is I don't know truly I know all
[7:28]these things to be true and yet I still feel all of these other things they jostle along side
[7:32]each other like the paradox that life so often is for so much of the day I forget about the big stuff
[7:37]like most people I'm just focused on getting through each day and the small stuff that affects
[7:41]my life and those closest around me but then I'll hear about some tragedy or watch the news and
[7:45]suddenly I'm reminded again dot dot dot and I swear to myself I'll never complain about anything
[7:49]ever again but of course I do we all do and then you sum up by saying if getting older has taught
[7:55]me one thing it said I feel so many conflicting things about so many different things and to
[7:59]negate or stifle any of them doesn't make them go away emotions don't necessarily have a moral
[8:05]compass feelings can't be shamed into disappearing suppressing and ignoring them will only make them
[8:10]come back to bite you in a therapist chair because this is what I've learned sorry this is a long
[8:14]excerpt I can feel I can feel like I don't know what the hell I'm doing and refuse to look in
[8:19]mirrors with overhead lighting and still go on the women's march and war like a mother effort I
[8:23]can weep for that father who lost his daughter and pray for the friend I don't know and a few
[8:27]days later be scrolling and despairing that I am not taking beach selfies with my handsome husband
[8:31]and I can marvel at a sunset and think how lucky I am and wake up in the night with the fear
[8:36]because life is complicated and so are we oh I love that so much you know that that just
[8:43]writing can be really hard but that passage just completely flowed out of me when I wrote that
[8:49]because it's something that I really feel and I I do I feel all those things you know I
[8:56]I've it's complicated isn't it so how can I complain about all these little trivial things
[9:01]when that's when the stuff that's going on in the world when you look at the news
[9:06]but we do and that's being human isn't it it's just that's human and a lot of people have
[9:12]related to that passage I think that chapter because because because we we care about the big
[9:19]stuff and the little stuff it's like when she says I can't believe I'm complaining about my
[9:22]saggy knees or having cellulite or not having you know gorgeous husband when you know there's
[9:30]wars going on and people don't have food and shelter you know I tried to make this a fun book
[9:36]but I wanted to put some deeper stuff in there because I think the age I am now
[9:41]that's the kind of stuff that I'm thinking about well it's so true I think about this kind of
[9:46]stuff all the time and then I feel bad yes for all my feelings like it it's so trivial that I even
[9:53]have these stupid feelings you know and then I feel even worse about whatever I was feeling
[9:57]bad next in the beginning of it yeah oh we should
[10:00]feel bad, it's human, we all do it, all of us do it.
[10:04]Yeah, it's still.
[10:05]It's hard.
[10:07]And then you also have,
[10:08]I won't read such a long passage next time,
[10:10]but I promise.
[10:11]But you talked about this whole,
[10:13]the invisibility of aging women.
[10:15]And how, like, if you don't wanna be known
[10:17]to, you know, the construction workers
[10:19]who like whistle when you walk by,
[10:20]don't worry, just wait, you'll be 41 day
[10:22]and you will get this magical gift.
[10:23]You don't even have to like beg for it.
[10:26]And so at the end of this whole thing,
[10:27]which of course is so funny,
[10:28]because you're hilarious or cricket says,
[10:30]I'm not saying this to be trite or to make you feel better.
[10:33]But believe me, when I say this,
[10:34]the people who matter will see you, no matter what.
[10:37]And I loved that too.
[10:38]It's so true and it was kind of,
[10:40]cricket says it's your superpower.
[10:42]You know, being visible is actually a superpower
[10:45]because now it sort of talks about
[10:47]how when she was a kid, she wanted to be invisible
[10:49]and now she's a 40 something more men
[10:51]and she just totally feels invisible.
[10:53]And then cricket spins it on its head.
[10:55]And I think that line that cricket says
[10:57]about trust me, the people that important,
[11:00]they will always see you and those two characters
[11:04]see each other because I think cricket
[11:07]is an 80 something woman feels very invisible.
[11:10]And so that's kind of a really important thing
[11:13]that I wanted to get across that.
[11:14]It's actually not such a bad thing being invisible
[11:17]because it gives you a real freedom,
[11:21]I think as you get older to be able to do things
[11:25]that you wouldn't do when you were younger
[11:28]because you feel so vulnerable
[11:30]because you feel like everyone's looking at you.
[11:32]Yep.
[11:33]And then cricket's like, well, now just we don't care.
[11:35]Like, well, that's what I just do whatever we want.
[11:38]Yeah, I know, I know it's great.
[11:41]I love the characters so much.
[11:44]I mean, Nell feels like, I mean, how,
[11:48]this is a question that I hate to even ask a novelist
[11:50]like how close is Nell to you?
[11:52]Is this like pretty much you
[11:54]or just like how are you two the most different?
[11:58]Now, I think Nell's the fictional character.
[12:01]So there's bits of me in there.
[12:02]But what I loved about writing the character of Nell
[12:06]is that she's Nell's really nice.
[12:09]She's super nice.
[12:11]She's always helping her friends out.
[12:13]And I think that there's definitely elements of me in Nell.
[12:17]Like, I think there's bits of me in all my characters.
[12:20]There's bits of me in cricket.
[12:21]There's bits of me in pair of the friends.
[12:23]But she's not me.
[12:25]It's not on memoir because it's really funny
[12:27]when I first wrote the book, a lot of people thought
[12:29]they were reading a nonfiction book.
[12:32]And I had to say to people, no, it's, I'm actually not Nell.
[12:37]And a lot of people were like, where's the podcast?
[12:39]And I was like, well, there isn't a podcast.
[12:41]It's a fictional podcast.
[12:43]So heavy is that about starting the podcast?
[12:46]I would love to start the podcast.
[12:48]It's just, it's time.
[12:49]Podcasts are, you know, I have friends that have podcasts.
[12:52]I'm sure you know.
[12:53]And they take a lot of time, you know?
[12:55]And you've got to be super committed
[12:57]to doing a really good podcast.
[13:00]And it's difficult when you're writing books at the same time.
[13:05]Yeah, let's go back to the writing books part.
[13:07]So take me back to the beginning of your career.
[13:10]And like, how did you get started writing books?
[13:12]Where did this outcome from blah, blah, blah?
[13:14]Like, take me back.
[13:14]So I, as a small kid, I was always writing short stories,
[13:20]making things up in my head had a really great imagination.
[13:24]And then I loved English.
[13:26]I loved reading.
[13:27]I was that kid, you know, with my head in a book.
[13:30]I went to university.
[13:31]I did English literature.
[13:33]And then when I left, I really wanted to work in magazines.
[13:36]And so I worked in women's magazines for all through my 20s.
[13:41]But I couldn't kind of, I was always sort of like
[13:44]the freelance feature writer or I was doing the sub-editing.
[13:47]And I couldn't climb up the ladder.
[13:49]I couldn't get the jobs I used to apply to for.
[13:51]And then one day I was sitting at work.
[13:53]And I was, I was subbing an article about six writers
[13:58]under the age of 30 that had written their first novel.
[14:01]And they gave advice about how to write a novel.
[14:04]And I thought, you know what, I'm going to have to go at this.
[14:07]So in my lunch hour and before work,
[14:10]I used to sort of, I had an idea for a novel.
[14:12]And I would write it.
[14:13]And it was, this is 1998, 1999.
[14:18]So, you know, you're printing off your pages.
[14:21]And I got a book and it told me some agent.
[14:24]So I went to the post office and I posted
[14:27]the printed pages off.
[14:29]And a couple of the agents called me in and said,
[14:32]oh, I really like this.
[14:34]So I signed to an agent, the agent I've still got today
[14:37]at William Morris, you've been.
[14:39]And she said, go away and write the book.
[14:41]And I was like, well, how long have I got?
[14:43]And she said, well, as long as you want, you know,
[14:45]just as quickly as you can.
[14:47]And I had a car, so I sold my car
[14:51]and I lived off the money from my car for six months
[14:54]and I finished the book.
[14:55]And then I finished the book and we sold it.
[14:58]We sold it and there was a bidding for it.
[15:00]So the first one came out.
[15:02]It was a week before my 30th birthday.
[15:05]So that was amazing.
[15:07]And then I carried on, so I've written 15 books now.
[15:10]So I've been doing it, I'm 53 now.
[15:12]So it was 23 years, you know, it's a two book deal,
[15:15]a three book deal and some were really successful,
[15:19]some weren't successful.
[15:21]And I was writing a lot of romantic comedies
[15:24]and I started doing romantic comedies
[15:25]with a magical twist that was sort of my USP.
[15:28]So it was, you know, a woman would meet herself age 21
[15:32]and it was kind of a time travel book about,
[15:34]what would you tell yourself if you could tell
[15:36]your younger self things?
[15:37]And the idea is actually it's the younger self
[15:39]that teaches the older woman how life again.
[15:42]And there was a book about someone
[15:44]that goes on a Jane Austen tour and gets to date Mr. Darcy
[15:48]and there are all these kind of books.
[15:49]And then I got to a period where I was in my mid-40s
[15:54]and I fell out of a book deal and they didn't sign me
[15:58]up for another book deal and I was like,
[15:59]whoa, so what do I do now?
[16:01]Cause that's all I've been doing.
[16:04]And then I thought I took some time out.
[16:06]I got married in my 40s and I just got married.
[16:09]And so then I was thinking, okay, I wanna keep writing
[16:13]but you know what, I think I wanna write something different.
[16:15]And because I had got older,
[16:17]different things matter to me now.
[16:19]It wasn't just about a 20-something girl wanting
[16:22]to meet the guy, it was more about this kind of stuff
[16:26]that you just read, you know, deeper things,
[16:28]you know, the issues that were all facing.
[16:30]And so that's when I came up with this idea
[16:32]of an older character and I wanted to just make it real.
[16:36]I wanted to make it really relatable
[16:39]and also weave in a lot of the issues
[16:41]that affect all of us.
[16:43]And that's how the idea for Confessions of a 40-something effort
[16:47]came and I'd actually had that title for about 15 years
[16:50]and I kind of kept it in my back pocket
[16:52]that I'm gonna use that title in the day.
[16:55]And so I pulled it out.
[16:57]Amazing, oh my gosh, I love that.
[17:00]I haven't read your other books,
[17:01]but do use the same stylistic, clever, funny things
[17:05]that you do here where you have like little lists
[17:07]and you have, you know, pretend excerpts of other articles
[17:11]and like the formatting and the way you keep the reader engaged
[17:13]in this like multi format.
[17:15]Yeah, no, not so much.
[17:17]This 40-something one was the first time I've kind of done that
[17:20]because I think a lot of people find it difficult
[17:23]to find time to read a novel now, you know,
[17:26]just like the name of your podcast.
[17:28]No one's got any time.
[17:30]And so I wanted to keep, I make the chapters really short.
[17:34]I wanted to put like funny little WhatsApp conversations in
[17:37]and, you know, a little, you know, you sort of have the idea
[17:42]where Nell's lost her libido and it's so funny.
[17:44]Like, oh my gosh, it's like it's a little,
[17:47]a lot missing for a sense.
[17:48]Yeah, so I try to put funny little things in there.
[17:51]So if someone doesn't have a lot of time to read,
[17:54]they can just read, you know, like one or two pages
[17:57]and they're not feeling like they've got this really long chapter
[18:00]that they've got to finish.
[18:01]I really like having that sort of multifunctional kind of book
[18:06]because I think it's entertaining and it's fun.
[18:08]And a lot of my readers actually,
[18:11]a people that have said that they have not read a book in 10 years.
[18:14]They've never read a book before.
[18:17]Wow. And that they came across mine
[18:19]and they found it really easy to read,
[18:21]which is brilliant because I love the fact that, you know,
[18:23]I'm getting people reading.
[18:25]It's amazing.
[18:26]No, I started reading this book in the summer
[18:29]with like a whole group of my team around for this retreat.
[18:32]And like within a page I was laughing and they're like,
[18:34]okay, what are you reading?
[18:35]I was like, you all have to read this.
[18:37]But it's true because you're like, it's so immediate.
[18:39]You're right inside someone else's mind
[18:41]and someone who happens to be really funny.
[18:43]And then of course have all these funny,
[18:45]but also sad and, you know, all these different things
[18:48]happen, sort of sad and life and aging parents and friends
[18:53]and God, I mean, it's like the full spectrum of stuff
[18:57]that's going on in our time, but you make it also entertaining,
[19:00]which I guess is the point of like a great read, right?
[19:03]Thank you. Yeah. Well, I try to throw it all in there.
[19:06]I try to put everything in there that we're all dealing with.
[19:09]And that's why Nell's got her girlfriends
[19:11]because every friend has an issue going on in their life.
[19:15]So I think there's something that everybody can relate to,
[19:18]you know, because Nell doesn't have kids,
[19:20]but her friends have kids and then cricket didn't want kids.
[19:24]So there's, you know, I'm trying to sort of look at it
[19:27]from all the different angles.
[19:28]So there's something for everyone.
[19:30]You had a funny line at some point.
[19:32]It would now read some article that a woman had just had a baby.
[19:36]And she's like, now I've become a woman.
[19:38]And she's like, what am I? Like a non woman?
[19:40]What does that make me eat it? Like just, oh, yeah.
[19:42]Well, you said it. She's on holiday.
[19:44]And she's, she's reading some magazines by the pool.
[19:47]And it's all, it's all about sort of having a baby
[19:51]or getting into a bikini, being bikini ready.
[19:54]And she said it or even worse, it's having a baby
[19:56]and being bikini ready.
[19:58]And so she's like, if I...
[20:00]have a baby. I don't have a bikini body. Then what am I? Because I don't have any stuff.
[20:06]Oh my gosh. So what is the answer to getting through this time of like where our bodies are
[20:14]sort of betraying us in a way, right? We have all these new things to deal with every single day.
[20:19]And your life is not set, but it's more set than it was, right? And what is your go to for getting
[20:29]through the periods when you're feeling less than or whatever. Like what's the or just what's
[20:36]laughter, humor, laughing about it. I mean, that's what Nels says. Everything's better when you
[20:41]can laugh in the face of it all. I was just saying to my sister, we were like, you know,
[20:45]when are we ever going to get to a period where we're less busy and we kind of have a straight
[20:49]going on? And I'm like, when we're dead, I just don't think we're ever going to get to a point where we're
[20:55]less busy. And you know, and so I think that I think we're all still figuring it out. And I thought
[21:02]when I got older, I would know more of the answers to these questions. And actually, I'm
[21:09]knowing less. So I just feel like I'm asking more and more questions. So I think having a great
[21:15]girlfriend's laughing about it. And my mum's in her 80s. And my mum's got these brilliant
[21:22]girlfriends in their 80s. And I love hanging out with them because they're all talking about
[21:27]stuff that's relevant to them. And I can see, you know, years ahead that we're all
[21:32]we're all still figuring stuff out. So I do think humor is, you know, a huge, huge thing to get
[21:39]through. I think you're right. Okay. Tell me about more confessions of a 40-something
[21:45]effort, which is already out already best-selling. And please thank you, congratulations.
[21:50]I know. Thank you. I got number 11 on the Times bestseller list. So I'm just out of the 10. Yeah,
[21:56]that just came out in the UK. And that starts 18 months after Confessions, the first 12 finishes.
[22:04]And so you get to see what's happened to everybody. And we're actually, we start just after
[22:10]the pandemic's finished and we're coming back out into the world. So it's really
[22:15]interesting to see what everyone's been doing and how their lives have changed. And it just
[22:20]you know, the pandemic, sure to everybody that, you know, you can't plan for things, you know,
[22:24]stuff happens. And so I was really nervous about writing the second one because everybody loved the
[22:30]first one. So I was like, oh, gosh, you know, I hope it's not going to be this sequel and nobody
[22:34]likes. But I've had really brilliant feedback. And some people say they like it even more than
[22:39]the first one. So that's so great. Is there going to be another one after that? Yeah, yeah, there'll
[22:44]definitely be another one. I think I'm going to write a completely different standalone book next.
[22:50]Okay. Because I just want to kind of let these characters live a little bit and do some stuff.
[22:55]And then I'll, I'll come back to them and write another book because they kind of like real people
[22:59]to me now. It's weird. I feel like I'm hanging out with people that actually exist.
[23:03]Because they do me my head. And what is this next one, the freestanding one? Do you know yet or
[23:07]you're just starting? No, I've kind of got a few ideas sort of swirling around, but I'm always
[23:11]really nervous about talking about anything. Yeah, it's quite interesting. I think I listened to a
[23:16]podcast you did with the author of end credit. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I, because I read a really
[23:22]fantastic interview with her. And I think she was saying on your podcast, she doesn't like to talk
[23:26]about if you have an idea, a seat of an idea, you kind of got to keep it closed. I think that was
[23:31]her writing advice. And that would also be mine. It's to kind of keep it closed to you because
[23:37]if I sort of talk about it in anybody goes, I'm not sure about that. It will just crush me.
[23:43]And so I kind of have to, I have to kind of really get it to live in my head first before I
[23:49]then start to talk about what I'm going to do. Totally. Definitely going to write,
[23:53]I'm going to write something new, something fun, something in the same vein. And tell me a little
[23:58]more about your, your whole process and where, like, what does it look like when you're writing?
[24:02]Is it, are you like on your lab on the beach or like where? Yeah, no, I'm super, I'm really
[24:08]super organized. I have a little office at my house in London. And I have a huge chalkboard
[24:14]on a wall. And I map everything out with post it notes and every character is a different color.
[24:21]So I put it all out. And I, because I'm very visual and I like to see it. And I, when I stand
[24:26]back and look, I can say, oh, I'm a bit character heavy here. And we don't have enough of this
[24:30]character there. And I know some writers, some friends of mine, they just kind of start writing.
[24:35]And they just go for it. Whereas I have to have had this whole thing plotted out. I feel like I
[24:41]need another end so that I can work backwards and put the reveals in and the little twists and the
[24:47]pacing. And then so once I've planned everything out, then I, it's a full-time job. It's Monday
[24:53]through Friday. I try putting a full working day. And yeah, I, I switched the phone off.
[25:00]I have to put it in the attic because it's just, it's so addictive to turn that out. And then,
[25:07]and also now writing it's really a, for an author, you do so much social media now,
[25:12]which, you know, back in the day just didn't exist. So you didn't have to do that stuff.
[25:16]So that can be both distracting, but also fantastic. Because I never used to know what read
[25:23]a sort of my books. You know, you couldn't interact with anybody. And it was like so great
[25:27]interacting with you. It's really great. You can, you know, the people can, they said, I get these
[25:32]wonderful messages from people that say, you know, we read your book and they tell me their stories.
[25:38]And it's, I love that. But so I spend quite a lot of time on social media, which, which is work.
[25:43]Yes. And so you're writing, but you're also doing a lot of engaging and promoting. And
[25:49]but I really like that compared to how it used to be 20 years ago, I prefer it. What's,
[25:54]what's the trick to longevity and staying a working novelist for your whole career? Because that
[25:59]isn't, it's an enviable spot for many who are just starting out. Yeah, I think definitely
[26:06]sort of being dogged about it. And, and also it's a wheel that turns and you, you're going to
[26:14]some books that you think are great. And they are just not going to sell. And then you will,
[26:19]the wheel will turn and, you know, your writer book and it will be a best seller. And definitely,
[26:26]I mean, I've been in this game for 24 years now, which I never thought I thought I would
[26:31]write one book and then that was it. And so I think looking back, it's, it's just about being
[26:37]really determined, putting your bum in the chair and writing, even though you've got a million
[26:43]other things to do. Because we've all got a million things to do, haven't we? Life, you could
[26:48]just spend all day kind of doing life stuff. And so I think it's, I think it's about being really
[26:55]sort of determined to write knowing that you're going to have in a highs and lows. And also loving
[27:01]what you do. I mean, I really am passionate about what I do. I love, I love creating characters.
[27:06]I love writing books. I love making someone feel seen, someone that felt lonely has read my book
[27:12]and they relate to it. And it's made them laugh. And it's made them uplifted. And I love that.
[27:18]I mean, that's such a humbling and brilliant thing that I can do. And I want to keep doing it.
[27:26]I love it. Everything you say is like everything I feel in my brain. It's like this thing.
[27:33]This is amazing. Do you have authors who you either sort of are good, like,
[27:38]comps to you, or that you love, or that you admire, or just you can't put down their work,
[27:45]or just any other authors to call out, or books you've loved? Well, lessons in chemistry.
[27:50]I mean, absolutely, Bonnie Garness. It was, you know, I read that book and I, I looked forward
[27:59]every night reading that book when I would get into bed and I'd read it. And I just thought it
[28:03]it was so fantastic. And I thought, I just love the characters. I love the message of the book.
[28:09]It was a really important message. And I actually messaged her on Instagram and I kind of did
[28:13]the whole fan girl. I'm sure you get that. I thought this was really interesting. And she messaged me
[28:19]back. And she's like, wow, thank you so much. There's an author. I'm sure you know what it's like.
[28:24]And I thought that was a brilliant book. And I've recommended that one to everyone.
[28:28]And I love that my mom, who's 84, loved it. You know, I sister loved it. So it appeals to lots
[28:34]of people. I really liked dating Jones in the six. I read that one on holiday. And again, I,
[28:41]I just, it was so realistic. I felt like that was a real band. Yeah. So I'm working through her
[28:47]books. And I like a lot of nonfiction, especially when I'm writing because I feel like I can't
[28:53]enter someone else's fictional world. I read a an autobiography by an actress called Miriam
[28:59]Margolis. She's a big actress in British actress and she was in the Harry Potter films and
[29:03]she's in her 80s. And she, it was a fantastic autobiography. I just read Richard E. Grant's
[29:10]pocketful of happiness about his wife that died. But he intertwines stories about Hollywood and acting
[29:17]which is wonderful. And then I've got a lot of friends, British writers, you know,
[29:22]Jojo Mais, Lisa Jule, that I love reading their stuff when that comes out. And then of course,
[29:28]I'm always reading my phone. Oh gosh amazing. Lisa Jule and Jojo Mais around this podcast. In fact,
[29:40]I think twice. I love them. They're amazing. I mean, yeah, they write fantastic books and they're
[29:46]prolific. I mean, Lisa's every year, Lisa's got a book out. It's amazing. She credits like
[29:51]gin and tonics that were something for her. Yeah, I know a good Negroni. Maybe that's what it is.
[29:58]Yes, a good Negroni. That's.
[30:00]That's much better, much better answer.
[30:02]Oh my goodness.
[30:03]And do you listen to any podcasts
[30:05]since this woman is a podcast and Snell is a,
[30:07]is a podcast or did you do any research
[30:09]about podcasts before you read it?
[30:11]You know, it's actually really fun.
[30:12]I've listened to a few podcasts.
[30:13]I listened to yours.
[30:15]I loved you all.
[30:15]Thank you.
[30:16]I've listened to a few,
[30:17]but I'm actually not a big podcast listener too,
[30:21]which is really funny because my heroine does a podcast,
[30:24]you know.
[30:25]But I think, I do know that there's only so much time
[30:29]I have in the day and so when I'm working
[30:31]and then I'm reading and then I'm chatting to my friends
[30:34]and stuff, I don't have a lot of time.
[30:38]My husband listens to a lot of podcasts,
[30:41]but every time I seem listening to a podcast,
[30:43]it's put him to sleep.
[30:44]He said, that's the perfect way to go to sleep.
[30:47]So I've listened to, I've listened to quite a few.
[30:49]There's some really good ones in England actually.
[30:51]I was on a couple of them,
[30:53]but I wouldn't say I'm as a prolific listener of podcasts
[30:56]as I am of reading it.
[30:57]But I do love audible books.
[31:00]I think that's a really good way
[31:02]if you're busy or you're doing stuff,
[31:04]walking the dog too.
[31:05]I like listening to a book.
[31:06]I think that's cool.
[31:07]Yeah.
[31:08]So just getting the most out of all of our time here, basically.
[31:10]It's like, yeah, exactly.
[31:12]Oh my gosh, Alexandra, thank you so much.
[31:14]I am like the biggest fan of yours.
[31:17]I can't believe it's taking a long time to find you
[31:19]and I like clung on every word.
[31:21]I love your sense of humor.
[31:22]I'm just so into what you write.
[31:24]So I can't wait for the next one.
[31:26]Thank you.
[31:27]Did you see the show that they do?
[31:29]No, and I'm sorry, meant to mention that.
[31:30]You turned it, you're not dead yet or something.
[31:32]Let's not.
[31:33]Yeah, yeah.
[31:34]No, I just wanted you to see.
[31:35]No, and now I have to obviously go watch it.
[31:37]Congratulations on the show.
[31:38]Oh, I should have said that.
[31:39]Oh, thank you.
[31:39]I have it in your bio at the beginning, which I'll record.
[31:42]Oh, no, thank you so much.
[31:43]And it's been picture of season two.
[31:45]Oh my gosh.
[31:46]So it's the right to start.
[31:47]Oh, exciting.
[31:48]So exciting.
[31:49]I know.
[31:49]OK, thanks.
[31:50]I'll go watch that.
[31:51]Maybe that'll be my next time.
[31:52]My nighttime treat after it's in with all the other stuff.
[31:56]Oh, we all fit everything.
[31:58]Oh, congratulations.
[31:59]Thank you so much.
[32:01]It was lovely speaking to you.
[32:02]Thanks for coming.
[32:03]Thanks for joining us tonight.
[32:05]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[32:07]Don't have time to read books.
[32:09]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[32:12]and at Moms.
[32:13]Don't have time to read books.
[32:14]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[32:17]and sign up for my virtual book club
[32:18]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[32:21]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[32:24]for the Sound Editing.
[32:25]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[32:27]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.