Sarah Cooper, FOOLISH: Tales of Assimilation, Determination, and Humiliation
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[1:03]Sarah Cooper is the author of Foolish Tales of Assimilation, Determination, and Humiliation.
[1:08]Sarah is a writer and comedian with millions of followers across social media.
[1:13]She's the author of How to Be Successful without herding men's feelings and 100 tricks
[1:17]to appear smart in meetings, as well as the star of the hit Netflix comedy special Sarah
[1:21]Cooper, Everything's Fine.
[1:23]Cooper built her comedy career in between working for companies like Yahoo and Google where
[1:26]she was fed free lunches and lots of material.
[1:29]She has appeared on Jimmy Kimmel Live, The Tonight Show, The Ellen DeGeneres Show, and has
[1:32]been featured in The New York Times, Washington Post, Vanity Fair, and countless others.
[1:37]Welcome, Sarah.
[1:38]Thank you so much for coming on.
[1:39]I'm starting to have time to read books to discuss Foolish Tales of Assimilation,
[1:43]Determination, and Humiliation.
[1:46]Thanks for coming on.
[1:47]Yeah.
[1:48]Thanks for having me.
[1:49]It's a mouthful of a title, yeah.
[1:52]Was that the original subtitle or has it been tweaked?
[1:54]Oh, it went through so many incarnations, but that was like, you know, Foolish is such
[2:00]a broad term that I felt like the subtitle needed to be pretty specific, but it's still
[2:05]pretty vague as well, so I don't know.
[2:08]Were you committed to Foolish from the start?
[2:11]No.
[2:12]There were so many different titles.
[2:15]You don't understand.
[2:16]I'm an over-thinker.
[2:17]I don't know if you're an over-thinker, but I was.
[2:19]You can't relate.
[2:20]No, no.
[2:21]I'm kidding.
[2:22]I'm kidding.
[2:23]Yes.
[2:24]I know you're kidding.
[2:25]You're a woman, so I know you're kidding.
[2:28]I went through so many titles and rethought everything.
[2:32]I mean, even to this day, I still am like, should I have actually gone with that title,
[2:35]you know?
[2:36]We were some of the other contenders, and then I want to talk about the actual book,
[2:39]but wait.
[2:40]I'm curious.
[2:41]Yeah.
[2:42]So robot interrupted, sort of a play on girl interrupted, but more of, you know, I kind of
[2:48]like that idea just because it is about just stopping the script and trying to break out
[2:54]of the things that you're just sort of habitually doing.
[2:58]what your heart isn't actually in it.
[3:00]So I didn't like that title, and that one would have been a robot interrupted a memoir.
[3:04]It wouldn't have had like a big subtype.
[3:07]Yep.
[3:08]Yeah.
[3:09]And another one, which was pretty controversial actually, was Jamaican American princess.
[3:14]Oh, that's so funny.
[3:18]So they were like, actually, some Jewish Americans might get offended by that.
[3:24]So I just, I really, I love the Jewish people.
[3:28]My first best friend was Jeward.
[3:29]I mean, this now I'm starting to sound racist, but you know what I mean?
[3:32]Like, I, I know a Jewish person that I relate to.
[3:35]Yeah.
[3:36]A Jewish person is on my cover, literally Jerry Seinfeld is on my cover.
[3:40]So it's okay for me to say that.
[3:43]I'm Jewish, and I'm not offended.
[3:44]I thought that was actually really good.
[3:46]I feel like the whole jappy thing has not been like said, or like I feel like it's
[3:52]from when we were younger, and now today people don't use that as much.
[3:54]So I feel like it speaks to a particular population, but anyway, I don't think, you know,
[3:59]we're all good.
[4:00]And I read your book.
[4:01]So I know you're fitting for Jewish people, and I feel like you're an honorary member
[4:05]given all of your, you know, over thinking, you know, you seem like, yeah, yeah, I'll let
[4:11]you in to the honorary fan club here, and at the honorary membership, I should say, I think
[4:16]it's a lot harder to get in, right?
[4:20]So Sarah, I first saw you during COVID, which you must be really tired of hearing because
[4:25]of your whole viral series about Trump and everything.
[4:28]I remember my husband watching, and then I would lean over, and it was like the great
[4:32]distraction.
[4:33]We were like, she's so funny.
[4:34]Oh my gosh.
[4:35]So you went viral then, but your whole life, what you talk about in the book is funny and
[4:40]creative and interesting and this intersection of tech, and it's almost like not a surprise
[4:44]that you would have gone viral on a new medium, given everything.
[4:48]So why don't you talk about why write this book?
[4:51]Yeah.
[4:52]Like why at this point did you write this book and how did you end up becoming a viral
[4:56]sensation for people who didn't understand that?
[4:58]Oh, wow.
[4:59]Well, I, how did I write this book?
[5:02]I mean, like a lot of, you know, I've been writing since I was little, and you saw some
[5:08]of my pretty embarrassing journal entries from when I was, I appreciated it.
[5:14]Yeah.
[5:15]So writing is, I realized this after finishing the book though, but like writing has really
[5:20]saved my life.
[5:21]It's really been the thing that like, you know, when I was in my room and I felt like
[5:25]I couldn't really talk to my sisters or my mom or my dad, like I'd be in my room and
[5:29]I would make up stories and I would write and, you know, that's what happened in my marriage
[5:34]when I felt like I was kind of alone and I didn't know what to do.
[5:36]I would write and writing was like really therapeutic for me to just help me get it all
[5:41]out.
[5:42]So I had a lot of material that I just been, you know, working on kind of my whole life
[5:48]life and I was, you know, I wrote an audiobook called Let's Catch Up Soon, which came
[5:56]out in 2021, I think, or 2022.
[6:00]And actually I was trying to turn that into a physical book, but that pitch turned into
[6:05]something else with Joe Schwartzman at Penguin Random House.
[6:08]They just were like, we actually want an essay collection.
[6:11]That's kind of new material, which I'm so glad they did that because anybody who looks
[6:16]at anything I've done will see sort of how I've changed and I look at it and I'm like,
[6:20]oh, I was, I was a different person two years ago and I'm a different person yesterday
[6:24]than I was now.
[6:25]You know what I mean?
[6:26]Like I changed so much that I'm glad I was able to write this and I kind of wanted to just,
[6:32]you know, for everybody that found my videos in 2020 where like, you know, I've been experimenting
[6:36]with tech.
[6:37]I've worked in tech and so like, yeah, I think when you say like it was, you know, kind
[6:40]of a foregone conclusion that I would go viral, like that kind of makes sense because
[6:44]I have been online for a really long time and not a foregone conclusion.
[6:49]Just it makes sense.
[6:51]It makes it's not like coming out of nowhere like it would have been for perhaps other
[6:54]people.
[6:55]That's all.
[6:56]Right.
[6:57]Yeah.
[6:58]I love the internet.
[6:59]I've loved the internet since, you know, it started and yeah, so, you know, it made sense
[7:03]that during COVID when, you know, I couldn't get on stage that I would, I would start
[7:08]making stuff for the internet and like, you know, a lot of people did and still do.
[7:11]And yeah, I got really frustrated by the president or then president and, you know, it
[7:17]was mostly, it was mostly the people around him pretending like he knew what he was talking
[7:22]about that frustrated me.
[7:23]It was almost like, yeah, he doesn't know what he's talking about and that's obvious.
[7:28]But it's the, it's with no one saying it.
[7:31]No one's saying it, you know, and everybody who tries to say it somehow gets shut down
[7:34]or whatever.
[7:35]And I just, that's what was frustrating to me.
[7:37]I say, and I say that I started lip-sinking him out of jealousy, which is true because like,
[7:42]I want to get, I wish I could get away with, you know, just, you know, BS in my way
[7:47]through life.
[7:48]Like I worked at Google.
[7:49]I saw people BS their way through meetings all the time.
[7:51]And I was like, I can't do that when I open my mouth.
[7:53]I feel like I really have to say something pretty important.
[7:56]It's got to be really good.
[7:57]It's got to be a good one or else I'm never going to get another chance again.
[8:00]You know, that's how I feel.
[8:02]So, you know, Trump just like said ridiculous things, he took his time when talking.
[8:09]He didn't care that he was saying the same thing over and over again.
[8:11]He didn't care that he didn't, wasn't making sense.
[8:13]He didn't care.
[8:14]And I was like, that would be great.
[8:16]So that's kind of why I started lip-sinking him.
[8:18]And I didn't really expect them to change my life that the way that they did, but they
[8:23]did.
[8:24]I feel like just the way you look at things in and of itself is so funny.
[8:32]And it probably speaks to the overthinking slash interior monologue, which ends up being
[8:36]very helpful when you're a funny person, because then everything that you say later
[8:41]is so funny.
[8:42]Your chapter with the signs that your mom says from all over the house made me laugh
[8:47]out loud so many times.
[8:49]Like I still just, even when I like flip back through it and look at it, like it makes
[8:53]me want to laugh again, can you like summarize that chapter for listeners?
[8:59]Yeah.
[9:00]Yeah.
[9:01]When I was going through my divorce, my mom helped me a lot.
[9:05]I went down to Florida, because I wasn't sure where I was going to be living.
[9:09]And I was, you know, I was crying because I wasn't going to get child support, but, you
[9:13]know, I don't have to do that.
[9:15]But I wanted inner child support, you know, but I wasn't going to get that.
[9:18]I was crying and my mom was hugging me and she said, Sierra, don't sweat the small stuff.
[9:26]And guess what?
[9:27]It's all small stuff.
[9:30]And I realized that that was the sign above the couch, and I was like, Mom, did you just
[9:36]read that to me?
[9:38]And so that's when I made the connection, like the guy at the end of the usual suspects,
[9:42]you know, how he's just looking at things around the office.
[9:45]And that's the whole movie.
[9:46]And I'm like, has my mom just been reading home goods decor to me my whole life to
[9:52]give me advice?
[9:53]Like, has it always just come from there?
[9:56]And that I think, like, you know, months later I called her and I told her I didn't
[10:00]No, if I'd ever get married again and she said,
[10:02]Sarah, you have to dance like no one is watching.
[10:05]And I said, mom, are you in the guest bathroom right now?
[10:08]You know, and so it's just been,
[10:13]she's just full of these sayings and some of them
[10:16]are on the wall and some of them are not,
[10:18]but they're always just these sayings
[10:20]that actually turn out to be really true.
[10:22]But at the time, they're just like,
[10:23]this doesn't help me at all, mom.
[10:25]You know, you're just like, why are you telling me?
[10:26]Time heals all wounds.
[10:28]It's not helping my wound right now, you know?
[10:30]Yeah.
[10:31]So, my god, do I see a dog?
[10:33]Do I see a dog?
[10:34]Oh, yes, that's not yet.
[10:36]Take it into the nap.
[10:36]Yep.
[10:38]Mm, so cute.
[10:40]Thank you.
[10:41]Yeah, I love dogs.
[10:42]Real active guard dog here, you know.
[10:44]That is mine.
[10:45]She's just lays comb into it.
[10:47]That's why I didn't notice her at first
[10:48]because I just saw a leg move just a little bit.
[10:51]And I was like, wait, that thing is alive.
[10:53]Yeah, usually she's on the couch behind me
[10:54]and she blends in except for her collar.
[10:56]So you also had this really funny part.
[10:59]Of course, I won't be able to find it now.
[11:01]I dug it all these different passages,
[11:03]but you had this really funny part about TV.
[11:06]Well, I can't find it.
[11:07]But anyway, you wrote about TV
[11:08]and how basically after all these changes,
[11:11]like we basically just have what we had before,
[11:13]which was TV channels with ads.
[11:15]Like why are we now downloading a thousand apps
[11:18]to do what we had before?
[11:19]Like, tell me about that because this is like
[11:21]the pain of my existence when we have to download up.
[11:23]I mean, it's just so fresh.
[11:25]Yeah, I think it was when I was home with my parents
[11:29]and I wanted to watch something.
[11:30]And it was so confusing.
[11:33]My parents, they just got a smart TV.
[11:37]It's brand new for them.
[11:38]So they have Netflix.
[11:39]They have all the streaming.
[11:40]But if you want to just watch the Oscars,
[11:45]you just want to watch the red carpet for the Oscars.
[11:49]When I was growing up, and I hate how I sound old,
[11:51]when I start saying this because I'm like,
[11:53]we're in my day, we just turned on the TV
[11:56]and there it was.
[11:57]We just went to channel seven and we could just watch
[12:01]Joan Rivers talk about people on the red carpet
[12:04]and it was great and we liked it and it was easy, you know?
[12:09]And yeah, we had commercials.
[12:10]But whatever you talk to your family during the commercials,
[12:14]you go get a snack.
[12:15]It was good.
[12:16]It was good.
[12:17]And now we are spending upwards of $20 a month
[12:22]for each service, which ends up being over $100 sometimes
[12:25]if you're getting all the services.
[12:26]And now they're putting ads.
[12:28]And so it's like, what, why?
[12:32]Where have we come from?
[12:33]How far have we fallen?
[12:34]Where will we go next?
[12:35]You know what I mean?
[12:36]I just don't get it.
[12:39]I just don't get it.
[12:40]I feel like technology and starting really with Netflix
[12:44]promises so much, they just over-promise
[12:47]and then they under-deliver.
[12:49]That's kind of my life as well.
[12:55]So on, Brandon, I love it.
[12:56]Yeah.
[12:58]I agree.
[12:59]I long for the days of simplicity
[13:01]where it didn't take 100 years and forgotten past kids
[13:04]and remotes that I just, I can't deal with it.
[13:07]And I just watch Mad Men every night now.
[13:10]So it's like all, it's like, I don't even,
[13:12]everyone's just watching like reruns now too.
[13:14]They just watch things that make them,
[13:17]that they like.
[13:18]So it's not even like we're watching a lot of new stuff
[13:21]because it's so hard to find.
[13:22]I know.
[13:23]And there's so much, so can you even know what to watch.
[13:25]And there's so much.
[13:26]I agree.
[13:27]It also creates a division between people
[13:28]because people are like, have you seen the yellow jackets?
[13:30]I'm like, no, so we have nothing to talk about
[13:32]because you are obsessed with the yellow jackets
[13:34]and I haven't seen it yet.
[13:35]So now what do we talk about?
[13:37]Where's like everybody was just watching the same one show
[13:40]that we had?
[13:41]So we could all talk about that one show.
[13:44]Yeah.
[13:45]And now none of us have anything in common.
[13:46]It's the beginning of the end of your comments, too.
[13:48]It is.
[13:49]It is.
[13:50]Well, just sign off now.
[13:51]Everybody who's listening to this,
[13:52]just run out into the street naked because it's over.
[13:55]You know, that is one thing that I think books offer,
[13:59]especially with books that a lot of people end up reading
[14:01]and why people flock to bestseller lists and book club picks
[14:05]and things like that is I really do think there's
[14:07]this huge hunger for us all to be consuming
[14:09]the same type of entertainment.
[14:11]And being able to experience it together and book club,
[14:15]if they had like TV show club, maybe people would watch
[14:18]the same thing.
[14:19]Yeah.
[14:20]I'll leave it to you to start that.
[14:21]You can do that.
[14:23]Yeah, my mom is currently watching suits.
[14:25]And I tried, but I couldn't get into it.
[14:27]So I don't know.
[14:29]When now we have nothing to talk about.
[14:31]My mom keeps recommending films with like in foreign languages
[14:34]with subtitles.
[14:35]And I'm like, if I'm going to watch a movie,
[14:37]that's when I'm not reading, that's the one time I'm not reading.
[14:40]I don't want to read anymore.
[14:44]You literally have a podcast called Mom's Don't Have Time
[14:47]to Read, and your mom is recommending subtitles movies.
[14:50]Yeah.
[14:51]Yeah.
[14:51]Usually about World War II, which is not like where I want to go
[14:54]in my like hour or two of freedom, which
[14:57]wants to get in the world war II.
[14:59]Oh my gosh.
[15:00]Yeah.
[15:00]I understand.
[15:01]Yeah.
[15:01]So you wrote in such a funny way, which I don't think
[15:04]I've said the sentence before.
[15:05]You've wrote in such a funny way about race.
[15:08]And now you've been at the time at work
[15:10]where someone said, hey, Sarah, do you
[15:12]mind if I put you down as black for the diversity quota?
[15:15]And you're like, well, I am black.
[15:16]And they're like, oh, well, even better.
[15:20]That literally happened.
[15:22]Yeah.
[15:22]And you're like, I don't even realize I was black.
[15:24]So I was like, I don't know.
[15:25]10 or something.
[15:26]You're like, are you sure?
[15:27]Mom and dad, are we black?
[15:29]And they're like, no, Mom, where'd you make it?
[15:33]I like how you say mom there.
[15:35]No one, where'd you make it?
[15:37]I'm sorry.
[15:38]No, I shouldn't have done that.
[15:39]I let it so embarrassing.
[15:40]No, that was adorable.
[15:41]I thought that was adorable.
[15:42]Only more embarrassing thing would have been
[15:44]if I actually tried to do a Jamaican accent.
[15:46]So I thought that was the lesser.
[15:47]I would love for you to try to do a Jamaican accent right now.
[15:50]That's what I would love.
[15:51]I can't do it on the spot.
[15:53]Come on.
[15:54]No, no, I'm on.
[15:55]No, I'm on.
[15:56]Yes.
[16:00]That was really good.
[16:01]Oh, thanks.
[16:02]OK, I'll practice more for our next interview.
[16:05]All right, so tell me about that.
[16:07]And this sense of identity that you poke fun at and how
[16:12]you've been wrote about it and how you feel about it and all
[16:14]of that.
[16:15]I mean, it's, yeah, so that chapter is, you know,
[16:17]black enough to be called it, not black enough to say it.
[16:20]And, you know, I didn't even feel comfortable.
[16:22]Like the actual phrase is I'm black enough
[16:24]to be called the N-word, not black enough to say it.
[16:26]And I didn't even feel comfortable putting the N-word
[16:27]in the title of that chapter.
[16:29]Because it is like I still, you know, most black people
[16:34]say, oh, I knew you were black.
[16:36]I know you're black.
[16:37]But most white people aren't sure.
[16:40]And some black people who are like immigrants aren't sure.
[16:42]Like I wrote that a lot of times people just assume I am
[16:48]what they are.
[16:48]So Indians will think I'm Indian.
[16:50]And Ethiopians will think I'm Ethiopian.
[16:53]And I do this in my stand, I'm just like, I am black.
[16:56]But it's more like black.
[16:57]Like, I don't know if I am, I am really, because I think
[17:01]everybody has an idea of what black means in this country.
[17:04]And I feel like I don't know if I fit into almost any one
[17:07]of those.
[17:07]I mean, I guess I fit into one of them.
[17:09]But I just don't know how many of us there are.
[17:11]Because I do shop at Antiller Loft, you know, obviously.
[17:17]I like the footer.
[17:18]It's very cute.
[17:19]Thank you.
[17:20]Thank you.
[17:21]And it fits me.
[17:22]So there's so many things about me that are just, you know,
[17:26]like, in case a point is saying the N-word, like, you know,
[17:29]I feel like there are some white people who
[17:31]got away with saying the N-word.
[17:32]But I could never get away with saying it.
[17:34]And I'm OK with it.
[17:35]Again, let me put that out there very clearly.
[17:37]I don't need to say it.
[17:39]But I'm just saying that like the, I don't know.
[17:42]I've always just felt like really, like, what is my category?
[17:45]Like, where do I belong?
[17:47]And so that's really what that chapter is about.
[17:50]And in Jamaica, the motto is out of many one people.
[17:54]And so it is very racially diverse.
[17:57]And a lot of people don't know that about Jamaica.
[17:59]But there are Chinese people there.
[18:00]My grandmother is Chinese.
[18:01]There are white kids in the middle of mandible
[18:04]going to school with thick or Jamaican accents
[18:06]that I could ever master.
[18:07]So there's so much diversity there.
[18:09]And a lot of times people just are like, where'd you make it?
[18:12]So that's why my parents were like, we're Jamaican.
[18:13]You know, we're not black, we're Jamaican.
[18:15]But then when other people see you here,
[18:18]it's like, you have to be something.
[18:20]You've got to be, what are you?
[18:21]It's like, they need to know where you're coming from, you know?
[18:23]Especially on stage.
[18:24]It's like, I can't tell certain jokes
[18:25]without making sure the audience knows I'm black.
[18:28]Otherwise, they will feel very uncomfortable
[18:30]with a lot of the things that I say.
[18:31]so it has to be very clear.
[18:32]And so that's just something you have to deal with.
[18:35]Wow.
[18:36]Well, you took something that can make people make,
[18:40]can feel divisive and made it so that you are a part of everything.
[18:44]And it's great.
[18:45]It's actually, you know, it's great.
[18:47]You did say in the book that you took a DNA test
[18:50]and you're 1% Ashkenazi Jewish.
[18:51]So I should have read from that
[18:53]when we were talking about this honorary membership
[18:55]because, you know, that counts.
[18:57]I feel like it counts a little bit.
[18:59]It counts for something.
[19:00]Yeah, that's about 1%.
[19:02]I mean, I'm the 1% I wish.
[19:08]And you also said that even though your grandmother was Chinese,
[19:12]you don't have any Chinese blood or whatever in your DNA,
[19:16]which makes, you know, I know, you know,
[19:17]so knows what that means.
[19:18]Or maybe you need a new test or something.
[19:20]But I'm going to take their test
[19:22]because what if I take it again and I'm not 1% Ashkenazi Jew?
[19:24]I don't want that to happen.
[19:25]So I'm not going to take it again.
[19:27]I'm going to stick with these results.
[19:28]That would be devastating.
[19:29]It would be devastating, but changed my life.
[19:31]Yeah, I can't risk it.
[19:32]Um, so we're, I mean, this is sort of a bigger question
[19:37]because your whole book, you're sort of like,
[19:39]I don't know what I'm doing with my life.
[19:40]It's sort of the theme.
[19:41]Even though you actually were doing great stuff with your life,
[19:43]you always felt you seem to feel a drift
[19:46]and that you were always like in the wrong place
[19:48]and why were you living at home?
[19:49]And why were you getting another divorce?
[19:51]And I mean, your relationship stuff was hilarious too.
[19:53]I mean, I shouldn't say hilarious.
[19:54]I'm sorry.
[19:55]I'm sorry.
[19:56]I'm so serious.
[19:57]No, I want you to say it's hilarious.
[19:59]I want people.
[20:00]the laugh at this. Honestly, that is the highest compliment. Okay. Well, I left so many times,
[20:04]I mean, it was like embarrassing. People, I was reading part of it in the car, and my kids thought
[20:09]I was laughing at them. And my husband was in the front seat. And he was like, Oh, yeah, I thought
[20:12]you just kept laughing at the kids, like rehearsing their plane. Like, no, I'm loving my book.
[20:18]Anyway, kids weren't even being funny. So, so you have this book coming out. You have
[20:23]your stand up and all the other stuff. Like, do you have a better view of where you want to go
[20:28]from here having gotten to this point than you did before when you're writing the book?
[20:33]You know, I was going to tweet this the other day. Actually, I was just like being 45 and
[20:38]still waking up thinking like, what am I doing with my life? Because I still feel that all the time,
[20:42]like, what am I doing? But I think that's just part of being someone who's always being reflective,
[20:48]you know, and just really like introspective and like really smart and stuff. So that's just who I am.
[20:54]And I accept that about myself. And I know that I want to bring joy to people's lives. And I
[21:01]feel like I've crystallized that at least as a goal for myself. And I kind of like, you know,
[21:08]put it into the hands of the universe to see like what that will mean. You know what I mean?
[21:15]Is it, you know, hopefully this book will bring joy to people's lives. I don't know what might
[21:19]happen with the book or, you know, if there's other things that I will do in the future. But I'm
[21:24]just like really open right now, especially with this book coming out. I published books before.
[21:29]I remember publishing my first book and thinking it was going to sell a million copies and change
[21:33]my life and like nothing happened. So like, you just have no idea like what's going to happen,
[21:39]especially when you're in a creative space. I mean, I'm sure starting this podcast, you know, when
[21:43]you first start something starting creating something from nothing is hard. It's painful.
[21:49]You have moments where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing and why am I doing this. And you
[21:53]have to constantly ask yourself why, why, why. And for me, it just comes back to like
[21:58]bringing joy to people's lives. And that's that's just what I want to do. And also, there's
[22:02]another layer of the book, which was my own personal story of, I realized at the end of the book,
[22:08]how much I wrote about men and how, how sort of obsessed I was with this idea of getting my power
[22:15]from a man I was with, a man I was working for, a man who was, you know, in my life and coming to
[22:25]the conclusion that you have to, that's, you know, you find your power inside yourself. You don't
[22:31]look externally for your power. Find it and inside yourself. And that's what I really learned about
[22:36]myself from writing this book. Well, that is a good, good takeaway. Very important. I feel like
[22:42]thank you. No problem. A plus. I'm very important. I'm a very important person. Thank you so much.
[22:49]VIP 1% are here. Watch out everyone. I feel like at one point, when I wasn't sure anyone would
[22:55]ever really listen to this podcast, I kind of made the decision like, well, you know what,
[22:59]I'm really enjoying doing this podcast. So why not? I like, even if nobody ever listens,
[23:05]I still want to do it. And so I just kept doing it. So I feel like you kind of have to have that
[23:10]mentality, like bringing joy to other people, but it has to be also to bring joy to you,
[23:14]otherwise like, you know, I mean, not want to keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a big part
[23:20]of it too. And, you know, for me, like the Trump videos, like people keep asking me to like,
[23:25]you know, do Trump again. Like it's so wild to me that we've gotten to a place where people are
[23:29]begging to hear Trump's voice come out of my mouth. Like that to me is almost psychotic because
[23:36]we were so annoyed and we were so happy to get rid of him. And now I have people saying, please,
[23:41]please, please, please. And it would be very easy for me to just do that because he's talking again.
[23:47]He's running again. He's out there again. But I just can't do it because I just, that it wouldn't
[23:53]literally crush my soul to like, think that man again because he is just to me. He's a lot of
[23:59]people are like, he's saying crazy things. I mean, like, I know we know now. We know we've seen who
[24:04]we is now. I don't need to show that to anybody anymore. Like we've got it. We can move on.
[24:09]And I would love to move on. So like, yeah, it's like about finding the thing that makes you
[24:14]happy that makes other people happy as well. It can't just be the thing that's making other people
[24:18]happy and not making you happy. Right. Are you going to be with a lot of other funny people on
[24:23]your tour? Like what is your tour looking like? Yes. I'm so glad you asked. Yes. I'm going to be
[24:29]with Chanella Lee who's a comedian. Amazing comedian here in New York in Philadelphia at the
[24:33]free library of Philadelphia. October 4th, October 5th. I'm going to be at Symphony Space in New
[24:39]York with Amy Schumer. I'm so excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, she's the kind of person
[24:44]who like really doesn't care what people think in an almost like superhuman kind of sense. Like
[24:50]she literally does what she wants. And it is so incredibly inspiring to me. So there are so many
[24:58]things I did not put in this book because I thought it would be too offensive or maybe it would
[25:02]ruin my career. You know? So I feel like I might run some of those things past her during our little
[25:09]talk and see if I made the right call. And then October 6th, that will be with Phoebe Robinson
[25:14]who has written, you know, we can't touch my hair in another, a lot of other books. And she
[25:20]and I will be at Politics and Pros in DC. And so yeah, I'm super excited. And I feel like if I say
[25:27]I'm super excited one more time, I probably want to die, but I am super excited. You should be
[25:32]super excited. Those are amazing people to be, I would be super excited to be in conversation with
[25:37]them. I had actually Phoebe Robinson on this podcast when her book came out. But yeah, well,
[25:42]that's really fun. And you should have fun. Yeah, it'll be great. And you'll bring joy to other people.
[25:46]There you go. That's what I'm hoping. Do you have advice for aspiring authors?
[25:52]That's a good question that I should have seen coming.
[25:57]I would much prefer you not have a prepared answer. I like when people think about things and just
[26:02]say it versus like having it written out. And then it's not interesting. Yeah, I don't know. So think
[26:08]about it. Yeah, I always, you know, I always hate advice. It's just like just write every day,
[26:15]just write every day, you know, like the thing about writing a book though, you have to love,
[26:19]I just think you have to love the process of it. And it was very, very painful writing this book.
[26:24]It was a lot of it was a lot of work. It was a lot of editing. It was a lot of like figuring out what
[26:29]what goes in with what gets taken out. I didn't want to let it go. You know, I wanted to keep
[26:33]working on it and had to finally say, okay, that's it. It's over. It's done. This is it. This is
[26:38]this is what's going out into the world. And so I think if you have a story to tell that you
[26:43]think is an important story that not even important, it's just a story that you want to tell
[26:48]that you think might, you know, reach some people and might be meaningful to some people. I mean,
[26:52]I think that's the important thing is that like a lot of times we're like, oh, this is really
[26:55]important, but you have to find an audience. And the way I found an audience is to start sharing
[27:00]things online. My first book deal came because I shared an article online. It went viral. And then
[27:06]I was able to leave my job and eventually find a literary agent through that article. And so
[27:12]if you can find an audience start there, start with finding an audience and building your platform
[27:16]building a group of people who love what you do. And it'll be so much easier to publish a book
[27:21]when you already have people who are excited to hear more from you. Very true. Good lesson.
[27:26]I should really be thinking of that when we publish books, but instead I'm like, oh, you don't even
[27:29]have a website. Come right on. Perfect. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Really? Oh, well, that then mine,
[27:36]then my advice doesn't work at all. No, yours does. I mean, you know, I don't know what I'm
[27:40]thinking. I just like like viewed it as a challenge. Anyway, if you happen to be an LA, we would
[27:45]love to do. I have a bookstore in Santa Monica. If you ever want to do an event there,
[27:48]you're more than welcome. We would love it. We get like really nice intimate crowds and fill the
[27:52]store and it's really fun. So please come. Okay. Thank you so much and follow up after. But yeah,
[27:59]thank you so much. This was really fun. And again, we have a whole shelf of the store called
[28:03]Books that make you laugh. So that is where this is going to go. And I can't wait to make other
[28:08]people laugh and share the joy. Thank you so much, Debbie. I really appreciate it.
[28:14]I love talking to you. Yeah. Thank you for making me speak with the Jamaican accent. I will never
[28:18]live that down. Bye. Have a great day. Bye, you too. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of
[28:28]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and
[28:33]at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign
[28:38]up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to
[28:42]Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon
[28:47]Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.